Marketing can feel like an endless loop of pressure, performance, and burnout. The content treadmill. The algorithm anxiety. The shoulds piling up in your inbox. If you've ever felt like self-promotion is slowly draining the joy out of your business, this episode is for you.

In this episode, I’m joined by business coach, author, and founder of Marketing-Mentor.com, Ilise Benun. With nearly 40 years of experience under her belt, she’s developed a deeply practical framework—The Simplest Marketing Plan—that emphasizes structure, intentionality, and just the right amount of consistency.

Ilise reminds us that marketing isn’t about being everywhere; it’s about being intentional and building real relationships. This conversation is a balm for the burnout that so often surrounds self-promotion. 

In this episode, we talk about:

• How to stop pretending and market like yourself (12:07)
• The three tools of the Simplest Marketing Plan and how they work together (25:04)
• Why "word of mouth" isn’t actually a marketing strategy (26:22)
• How to do targeted outreach without feeling gross (38:35)
• The power of forgetting (aka how to overcome the fear of rejection) (46:52)

If you're tired of chasing algorithms, bouncing between platforms, or feeling like your marketing is always a half-finished to-do list, this episode is your permission slip to simplify everything. Ilise's approach won’t just help you market more effectively—it will help you create more space, ease, and focus in your business. It’s a gentle step toward becoming more deeply rested.

To watch this interview, check out Deeply Rested on YouTube: https://youtu.be/9AEZGui1IOs

Connect with Ilise Benun

• Get Marketing Mentor's One-Page Weekly Marketing Schedule when you sign up for Quick Tips from Marketing Mentor:  https://go.marketing-mentor.com/podcast-freebie
• Follow Ilise on Instagram and LinkedIn 

Take Our Listener Survey

We’d love to know what you think! Take a moment to fill out our listener survey, and share your thoughts on this behind-the-scenes experiment. We’re so excited to co-create with you. 

Mentioned in this episode:

Want deep rest inspiration delivered directly to your inbox?

Join the Deeply Rested newsletter for weekly emails that will help you deprogram from hustle culture and opt out of urgency in your life and business. Plus, you'll be the first to hear about new podcast episodes, Deep Rest Retreats, and other offerings from Maegan. Subscribe today by clicking the link.

Join Our Newsletter

[00:00:44] Today's guest is going to help us bridge this gap with her framework, the Simplest Marketing Plan. Ilise Benun is a business coach for creative professionals, a national speaker, the author of seven books, and the founder of marketingmentor.com, the go-to online resource for creative professionals who want better clients with bigger budgets. IIise is direct, kind, and super pragmatic with almost 40 years of business experience. She is a walking fountain of wisdom, and she's committed to making marketing simple for those of us who are easily overwhelmed. So sit back, relax, and enjoy this deeply rested marketing conversation with IIise Benun.

[00:02:21] Well, IIise, welcome to Deeply Rested.

[00:02:28] Maegan: I am so happy to have you on the show, and I am really excited to talk about marketing, which might be a strange thing to hear as a listener

[00:03:01] But not anymore because IIise is here and you, IIise, have created a framework called the Simplest Marketing Plan, and you are so full of wisdom about how we can market our businesses and be deeply rested, and I am just genuinely so excited to learn from you today. So, thank you for being here.

[00:03:30] Maegan: 37 years of entrepreneurship. Wow, that is so incredible. Okay, well, before we get into the nitty gritty of the Simplest Marketing plan, we wanna learn more about you and how you came up with this big idea. So, I'm going to invite you to join me and take a couple of deep breaths. And then, IIise, I'm gonna hit you with our first question.

[00:04:05] Maegan: Elise, Ilise, you have been a business owner for almost 40 years.

[00:04:12] Maegan: Tell me about a time in your life when you felt so overwhelmed with your business that you weren't sure you could keep going.

[00:04:46] Maegan: Wow.

[00:05:54] And now when I do too much in a day, I feel like, no, this is too much. I can't do this anymore. I don't wanna do this anymore. And so, you know, maybe the answer to your question is today.

[00:06:23] Ilise: Don't wanna do it.

[00:06:35] Ilise: I think that's true. I'm very disciplined and I always have been. I was raised to be disciplined and to do what needed to be done and not to give in to feelings, if you will.

[00:06:50] Ilise: Yeah, and so, I guess you could say I've been grounded, although I was a lot less grounded when I started, and I was really much all over the place trying to figure out what I was doing. And it took me a good 10 years, actually to really focus in and figure out who my people are, what they need? What are their pain points? How do I speak to that in my marketing? Where do I go so that I can meet them in person so I don't have to be so all over the place? And that, of course, is part of the Simplest Marketing Plan. It's what I advise, it's what I've learned,through experience. And once I settled into that, then the pipeline just stayed full and there was a lot of work and it kept evolving, but yes, I mean, I've definitely gotten more and more grounded and more boundaried as I've gone along.

[00:07:51] Ilise: No rush.

[00:08:04] Ilise: So, let's see, what's the best way to describe this? I mean, it's part of what I learned from this supervisor, if you will, who was also a therapist of sorts, although his modalities changed over the years as well, but he would make a distinction between fake feelings and real feelings and fake feelings being the drama that we let invade our lives, which is different from, a feeling of gratitude or a feeling of joy or a feeling of real anger versus annoyance, just all the things that we can control about how we respond to something as opposed to what's actually happening and so I think, that's how I've interpreted it and taken it.

[00:09:53] Maegan: Would you describe yourself as a very emotional person outside of your business?

[00:10:00] Maegan: Really? And that's been true since childhood? Probably.

[00:10:07] Maegan: Yeah.

[00:10:13] Maegan: Yes, Bessel van der Kolk. We know him well in this world.

[00:10:38] Maegan: Thank you so much for sharing that. First of all, I'm like, oh, now we're getting somewhere. This is interesting. For folks who are listening and not watching this on YouTube, you're doing this thing with your hands, right? This sort of balancing, there's this and there's that, and I'm finding myself feeling really curious about that as I'm listening to you right now.

[00:11:23] With the help of your supervisor, you've learned how to discern what is a panic response that doesn't need any space or attention and what kind of feelings can I analyze and ask myself, okay, if I'm feeling X, what action can I take to get Y results? So you've learned this very practical, cognitive way to respond to your feelings to move your business forward as a person who doesn't spend as much time swimming in the emotional waters as say I do. I think we have something really important to offer each other here in this exchange. Does that make sense?

[00:12:07] Maegan: Yeah.

[00:12:21] Maegan: Uh Huh

[00:12:39] Maegan: Yeah.

[00:13:09] Maegan: Yes. May I offer you my frame for that? So back when I was a therapist, I was an emotionally focused therapist, so my life was emotion for a very long time. Still is always will be, I'm sure. But there's this really simple concept, called primary emotion and secondary emotion.

[00:13:53] These reactive emotions as an emotionally focused therapist, what I know is so helpful in our emotional process is to catch when we're in secondary emotion, and then to get really curious about: what's the primary emotion, what is the primary need or experience that's fueling this reaction? Because 99% of the time those reactions like you're describing are not helpful.

[00:14:44] I didn't expect we were gonna talk about this today, but I love that we are, because I do think it's so important when we're talking about something like marketing, which can feel really emotionally loaded, that we first understand our own emotional relationship with marketing, with visibility, with being seen, with creating new relationships.

[00:15:30] Ilise: Well, one other thing I would add is the idea that if we wanna get clear first on what our relationship is to marketing, to me it's more about what we imagine marketing to be. Not usually what marketing actually is for yourself and that's what, that's what I'm fighting against is what you.

[00:16:00] Ilise: Well, first of all, it means bragging

[00:16:03] Ilise: And your mother told you not to brag. You're not supposed to toot your own horn. So how can I market myself if I don't wanna sound boastful or arrogant or any of those adjectives with negative connotations,

[00:16:19] Ilise: Right? There's also, nobody wants to hear from me because I don't wanna bother anyone. I'm a burden, right? If they wanted me, they would call me. My work should speak for itself.

[00:16:37] Ilise: They should remember that I exist. I shouldn't have to remind them that I'm out here. I mean, it goes on and on and on, These are the images and the illusions I would say that I have to help people rethink and see, oh, maybe what you imagine it means to put yourself out there is very different from what it actually means, and maybe you can bring yourself into it. Because often people imagine that they have to be someone different or be someone else or be a certain way, and that's not true either.

[00:17:16] Ilise: It is exhausting.

[00:17:41] And not put any rules or parameters around that. I really appreciate what you're saying that before we even talk about the simplest marketing plan can you pause and really think about what stories about marketing, about visibility are you bringing to the table that might be creating layers of undue complication for you and your journey as a business owner and maybe there are stories about, not being too big for your britches, not being braggadocious, not having too much ego, being too shiny. I hear this one all the time, that people grow up in families where they really are actively sent to the background, right? They're actively told, don't take up too much space.

[00:19:08] Ilise: Let me just put a pin in something else so I don't forget to say this also, but we are surrounded by bad marketers, number one, right? We are surrounded and bombarded by people marketing to us constantly. And so when we think of marketing ourselves, we imagine we have to do what they're doing because we don't know there's some other way.

[00:19:52] Ilise: So I think the corollary to that also is I need to take whatever work I can get because I don't know if any other clients or projects are coming along, and that means I can't focus, I have to be everything to everyone, not only being everywhere, and so one of my. I dunno, biggest efforts, if you will, is helping people focus and helping them decide who exactly do you want to help? Who are your best prospects? Who are you best suited to serve? And then let's go find those people and make that argument so that you don't have to be talking to everyone and be everywhere.

[00:20:49] Ilise: Right, but it's easier said than done because you know, if all I had to do was say, let's just focus, and someone would be okay, good idea. But that is not usually what happens. Usually what happens is, oh, no, I can't, because again, I don't wanna pigeonhole myself. I'm gonna get bored if I keep doing the same thing over and over again. That's the illusion as if every client isn't different, right? As if every project isn't different, as if you can't bring all of your creativity to the ones you are best suited to serve. So it's kind of this, again, it's a big effort to help people understand that there's depth.

[00:21:34] Ilise: Rather than width. The depth is more valuable, I think, because, for example, I focus on creative professionals, right? Those are designers, copywriters, other coaches, videographers, illustrators, anyone who considers themselves creative. That's my focus and yes, therapists could benefit from the simplest marketing plan. There's no doubt the ideas work, but I am speaking to creatives. That means I know where to go to find them. I know what I need to say to let them know that I get them that they can trust me, that I have the experience to help them. You know, one thing I recently heard someone say was that if you can articulate your prospect's problem really well, they will trust you. You don't even need to articulate the solution 'cause that will come later, but if you can articulate the problem, they will say, oh, this person really understands me. And that's the connection we're trying to make with the marketing. The rest is organic.

[00:22:40] Ilise: I'm sure I am actually.

[00:23:16] It's just gives me full body chills, you know? I'm like, yes, yes, in both directions. When I'm feeling that way with someone I wanna pay for support. And when I can create that experience for someone who's considering working with me, it just feels like we're firing on all cylinders. So I love this vision of marketing as the actions that we take to create more of those moments. That's what we're aiming for here. We aren't just like splashing ourselves all over Instagram because it's what we're supposed to do. No, we're being really focused about what our objective and intentional.

[00:23:50] Maegan: The balance of these things feels so powerful. We're bringing in strategy, we're bringing in intention, we're bringing in focus, and we're bringing in deep care, right? And passion for the work that we're doing and the gifts that we are here to share. When you get that combination right, I feel personally so energized by the work I'm doing in my business.

[00:24:31] Maegan: Yeah.

[00:24:35] Maegan: I mean, like, I can hit a threshold for sure to be clear, but it's like when I know my boundaries, my day is full of people I love and conversations I love, and I feel like I can be my honest, authentic self with each of those people. You're right. I don't feel burnt out. I don't feel fatigued. I feel so energized. Okay, so we're making a case here that good marketing leads to a business that feels so good. It's so energizing. So let's get into the nitty gritty. Tell me.

[00:25:31] Maegan: Referrals.

[00:25:41] Maegan: Marketing is what you do to get the work that you want. Word of mouth is the gravy. Feel the truth of this, IIise, when word of mouth is happening, it means you're marketing really well.

[00:26:28] Maegan: Yeah, because what you're describing is a trauma response, right? When we are in this place where we don't feel safe, we don't feel secure, when we feel like we don't have that agency and control to take care of ourselves, to meet our needs. We're gonna act a little crazy.

[00:26:46] Maegan: We're trying to create a sense of safety, but you are saying, calm down, take a breath. Let's give you a plan, let's give you some strategy so that you can create safety in your business with focus.

[00:27:02] Maegan: That's really beautiful. Tell me about the simplest marketing plan.

[00:27:41] Part of the problem is a certain impatience because when people. Finally realize that word of mouth is not working and they should probably do a little something to market themselves. Then they're in a place of desperation and they need it to work immediately and marketing doesn't work immediately.

[00:28:30] They never called me back. This is after two weeks. I think instead about what I call newsletter magic. I'm gonna show it to you 'cause it happens to be right here. The very first newsletter. It was actually the second one that I ever sent.

[00:28:46] Ilise: 1990.

[00:29:01] Ilise: Yeah, so let me tell you what the three tools are and then I'll, show you how they fit together. The three tools are content marketing, what I call high quality content marketing. Not to be confused with marketing content. Marketing content is what's on your homepage and it talks about what you offer and the services that you offer and that's all about you and what you know, but content marketing is about what you know your market needs. That's the distinction I make. So it's all about them. In fact, I often say part of the problem is your marketing is actually not about you, but if you believe that self-promotion and marketing is about you, you're not gonna do it.

[00:30:10] So, a newsletter is an example of content marketing. You have a newsletter. I have a newsletter, right? It's the way we stay in touch with people. It's the way we keep our visibility high. It's the way we build trust and credibility and authority. And the main thing I say, people should do a newsletter, because out of sight is out of mind. If you don't remind them that you're out there, I guarantee they will forget you exist. That is just the way things are these days, and it's not personal, but if you stay in touch, then in their moment of need, they will remember, oh yeah, I forgot about her. I should respond to this email.

[00:31:31] Maegan: I believe in newsletter magic, so yes. I feel that the truth of that in my own business, that just the other day I was doing a discovery call with someone who reached out about working one-on-one with me, and she said, you know, I've been reading your newsletter since 2019. It's 2025 right now and I have never heard from this person before. This is the first time we've had a real conversation and I think it, goes to show that what you're saying is so true. We need a way to keep in touch with people who are interested in what we have to say and what we're offering and also that relationships, like you said earlier, take time. Real relationships, that people need hundreds of touchpoints with you and your work before the timing is right for them to make a connection with you. I always say to my clients, the two most valuable qualities you can have to be a successful business owner are patience and persistence.

[00:33:03] Ilise: So, let me give you the other two tools first, because those kind of answer that question. So there's content marketing and then there is strategic networking.

[00:33:18] Ilise: Now strategic networking is what I meant when I talked earlier about finding my people so that I don't have to be going everywhere. I found very early on in my business a magazine called How, and it was a magazine for graphic designers. I reached out to the editor and I had never written anything before and I just thought, I need to write an article for this magazine because it was all about the business of graphic design and the practical aspects of graphic design.

[00:34:19] Maegan: Great. Okay, so we have tool number one, content marketing, example, newsletter magic.

[00:34:25] Maegan: Tool number two, strategic networking example. Who are your clients? Where do they go? Can you go there? Can you go there and truly be open to creating relationships? Because hey, introverts, it doesn't count if you go to a conference and never leave your hotel room, which I've done before.

[00:34:43] Maegan: It's finding the right spaces that I'm gonna feel energetically comfortable in personally, or my clients are also gathering, and then allowing yourself to be open and present. Do you have any quick tips before we move on to the third tool about how to navigate those spaces? When you're in a large gathering of people that you know are good fits for you, how do you recommend showing up in that space specifically to network?

[00:36:23] Lean into your curiosity. Pretend you're a journalist. Pretend you're writing content about the event or about the people that you're going to meet and you know what? Do it. Write content about the event and just go with your newsletter.

[00:36:41] Ilise: Exactly. This is what I mean by connecting the dots, but between the tools, right? So just don't worry about, what am I gonna say? and they're gonna think, what is she doing here? She's not one of us. Like all of these fantasies that come into people's minds. Put that aside. Be patient with yourself, be gracious with yourself and just say, what questions do I sincerely want to ask these people who could be prospects? And don't look at it as I gotta make a good impression with this person or with these people, but just again, go with your curiosity and let whatever happens, happen, and then take that content back and turn it into something that you can use to follow up with them. Because follow up is really the key to networking especially.

[00:37:55] I mean, yes, but I actually need to meet some people and, I love the way that you're giving us all of these entry points to strategic networking. Maybe it's a conference, but also I'm guessing strategic networking could be one-on-one relationships to coffee dates, you know, meeting people in a more intimate setting. You're giving us all of these entry points to make networking accessible, which I think is so important for people with different energy levels, people with different types of neurodivergence. This is excellent. We have content marketing. We have strategic networking. What is tool number three?

[00:39:19] You do your homework, you make a human connection, you talk about them, not about you. You talk about their pain points, not so much about what you do to cure them. You help them understand that you value what they do, you really think you can help, and you'd love to see if there's an opportunity for that.

[00:39:58] Ilise: I wanna like receive it in my mind right now and see how it feels. The subject line says, you don't know me yet.

[00:40:06] Ilise: And…

[00:40:14] Ilise: That's fine and inside it says. Hi Maegan. You don't know me, but I've been looking at your website and I love what you're doing with your Deeply Rested podcast, and I love your lead magnet and the way you make it super visible for people to sign up for your newsletter. So I signed up for your newsletter, but I also notice that on this page there are some things that perhaps you could use some help with. It looks like you haven't updated your website in a couple of years, and I'm wondering if you've been thinking about doing that and just haven't been able to find the right resource yet. If that's the case, I'd love to chat. If not, I'll stay in touch. Here's how I do that with my newsletter, and if you're not interested, just let me know and I won't bother you anymore.

[00:41:13] Ilise: Tell me..

[00:42:09] I'm gonna write that down. 'cause that alone feels like a good reframe away from cold outreach, targeted outreach. When I get these cold outreach emails, they feel so impersonal. It doesn't feel like there's anything actually targeted or intentional about them. The email that you just read to me that I opened in my inbox felt human. It felt like the person who sent it, first of all took some time to actually get into my world and sign up for my newsletter and when I get emails like this, like the one you're describing, sometimes I wanna respond even though I don't need the service. Just 'cause it's so nice for somebody to be like, I listened to this episode of your podcast.

[00:43:13] So yeah, just receiving that right now, I am reminded that these really human interactions feel good and I'm also honoring. How much courage it takes to send them. I don't do this very often because it feels a little scary. It's like asking somebody out on a date, and oh. It's what if they reject me or what if they never respond? So tell me how you coach people. Okay, there we go. I'm gonna say, how do you coach your clients through managing their emotional reactions to putting themselves out there in such a vulnerable way?

[00:44:36] Maegan: Hmm.There are so many people listening to this right now who are like, damn, how different my life would be if I had IIise's ability to not give a damn. I love it. It's such a great muscle to exercise, right? This muscle of it's okay. It's not personal. Some people respond, some people don't. Some people say yes, some people, no. The better I get at this myself, I'm finding the more ease that flows into my business because I'm not personalizing everything and I am being more courageous in how I put myself out into the world.

[00:45:27] Maegan: That's where the newsletter comes in and I love inviting, I think you said this in your example email just now, but adding if now isn't the right time, here's a way you can learn more about me and what I'm doing. That's really bold, right? And not a lot, I don't know if I've ever gotten an email where someone proactively said, if now's not the right time for us to connect, I would love for you to subscribe to my newsletter. Like, oh, that's a really great idea and it's just an invitation. I'm just inviting you to join my newsletter and then my work emotionally is not to take it personally if you don't, or not to take it personally when I see that you unsubscribe, which is really hard, but I'm working on it.

[00:46:04] Maegan: It's, it's…Don't. I am never glad after I look, do you know what I mean? I'm always like, why'd you do that because now you're going down a spiral. Okay. Alright. Content marketing, strategic networking, targeted outreach.

[00:46:19] Maegan: My gosh. Look, I forgot about the power of forgetting.

[00:46:52] Maegan: I mean, I just felt like my whole body relaxed a little bit as you said that.

[00:47:19] Maegan: Oh, IIise, I love this so much. I'm laughing 'cause this is like such a tall order for so many people, but what it's reminding me of actually that I love, so one of my favorite things about being a small business owner, IIise, is that I really believe our businesses are a playground for us to work out all of our stuff, to heal our wounds, to have corrective experiences, to move through our own personal growth journey. Our small businesses allow us to do all of that while getting paid to do our jobs and I adore that. I think it's the greatest privilege of being a small business owner, and this is a great practical example of that, if you are a person like me. Who struggles to forget.

[00:49:16] Ilise: It does if you let it.

[00:49:21] Ilise: Actually, because the metaphor that I often use is not the playground, but I like that one as much as a laboratory. A laboratory for your professional growth. Yes, of course, but also your personal growth. That's how I talk about it, I love you adding the idea of actually healing some of those injuries or traumas.

[00:50:37] And I love that you have this program because this can be really hard work to do alone, especially when you are bringing a lot of your emotional history into the mix of doing it in community and then having you there as a guide. I'm imagining that people have way better results when they do it in community versus when they try to do it solo.

[00:51:18] Maegan: I am wondering if you have any resources or where people can go to learn more about the simplest marketing plan specifically because I'm putting myself in the shoes of a listener right now, and if I were listening to this conversation and I were taking notes, I was like, content marketing, strategic networking, targeted outreach. It would feel like a lot, it does not feel simple when we're talking about it all in, you know, one 45-minute podcast interview. So, do you have any resources to help listeners really understand how to make this process simple?

[00:52:37] Maegan: And you sent me this one pager. I looked at it, it's been a minute now since I looked at it, but it was so lovely. It was so simple. And am I remembering correctly that you have written on that form schedule 30 minutes a day?

[00:52:50] Maegan: Okay, so maybe we can just plant that seed. For people listening that you can do this three-step approach in 30 minutes a day. This is advice from Maegan now, like if 30 minutes a day feels like way too much, then take a breath. It's time to reexamine some priorities because I think this is the place where we wish we could do less, but like working up to 30 minutes a day marketing your business is such a reasonable expectation, such a reasonable ask.

[00:53:21] Maegan: Can start tiny.

[00:53:26] Maegan: Yes, I love that you give so much permission and just knowing that you're working up to 30 minutes a day. You don't have to start there. You're gonna start where you're at, but you are gonna work up to being a business owner who really prioritizes marketing in a bigger way, in a more intentional way. And I'm so grateful, IIise, that you exist and that you're here teaching us how to do this with just this no-nonsense, very clear, pragmatic approach. Sometimes being deeply rested is about getting deep, deep, deep into the spiritual, psychological, emotional stuff, and sometimes it's about turning the volume down on all of that and just being cognitive and pragmatic. And you're such a gift that you're bringing that to us in this very accessible way. So can you just please tell us the link where people can join the quick tips and get this one pager?

[00:54:37] Maegan: Great. So you can go to the URL IIise just mentioned. You can use the URL in the show notes. Just get into IIise's orbit. IIise, it's such a gift to have you here, to have this conversation with you. Thank you so much for joining us on Deeply Rested.

[00:54:55] Maegan: And if you made it all the way to the end of this episode and you loved IIise's conversation, the best, most helpful thing that you can do for us is to share this conversation with one or two colleagues who you think would benefit from IIise's Wisdom as well. So please share this episode, share the simplest marketing plan, and IIise, I cannot wait to talk to you again.

[00:55:23] Maegan: Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Deeply Rested. If you enjoyed this conversation, I would love to invite you to join the deeply Rested Weekly newsletter. You can sign up at deeply rested.com/newsletter. I hope to meet you in my inbox very soon.