Can you use commercial music in your podcast?
Evo Terra:Few questions will shut up most podcasting pundits more quickly.
Evo Terra:But the better questions are "What's the worst that can happen?"
Evo Terra:and "Will this ever change?"
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Evo Terra:. Hello, and welcome to another Podcast
Evo Terra:Today, I'm wading into a topic that many other podcasting pundits
Evo Terra:avoid, and that is copyright.
Evo Terra:Specifically, using licensed music on your podcast.
Evo Terra:But staying true to the spirit of Podcast Pontifications, my main focus will be
Evo Terra:whether or not this is a good idea.
Evo Terra:Let's talk legal, just for a second here, where I must remind
Evo Terra:you that I am not a lawyer.
Evo Terra:Which is a dumb disclaimer to make, in my honest opinion, for
Evo Terra:those of us that are not attorneys.
Evo Terra:I mean, if someone asks me if it's legal to grow weed in Arizona, I
Evo Terra:don't have to preface my answer with, "I am not an attorney."
Evo Terra:I can just say, "Yes, up to six plants."
Evo Terra:So, what's the big deal about someone answering a question on the legality of
Evo Terra:playing copyrighted music on a podcast?
Evo Terra:Yes!
Evo Terra:It's legal to play copyrighted music on a podcast so long as you've cleared
Evo Terra:the rights or are following Fair use.
Evo Terra:Ah.
Evo Terra:There lies the stickiness.
Evo Terra:But again, I think the more interesting question here is
Evo Terra:whether or not playing licensed music in a podcast is a good idea.
Evo Terra:This topic was inspired, actually asked, by my most recent
Evo Terra:coffee supporting member, Mr.
Evo Terra:Palle Bo.
Evo Terra:Palle has a podcast called The Radio Vagabond, and it's amazing.
Evo Terra:You should totally listen to it.
Evo Terra:Here's what Polly's question was, I'm just gonna read it to you:
Evo Terra:"Lately, I've been dreaming about it being possible to use copyrighted music
Evo Terra:on podcasts sometime in the future.
Evo Terra:Obviously, not now, but things change.
Evo Terra:After that, I started dreaming of what I would choose to make
Evo Terra:my podcast even more interesting.
Evo Terra:Whenever I hear a song, I would think, 'Wow!
Evo Terra:That would be great to play a few seconds of to set the scene on my travel podcast.'
Evo Terra:What are your thoughts?
Evo Terra:Will it ever happen?
Evo Terra:Should I stop dreaming?"
Evo Terra:Well, thank you very much for the question, Palle.
Evo Terra:Actually, a few questions you have right there.
Evo Terra:So first off, yes, again, podcasters can and do use copyrighted music
Evo Terra:in their podcasts every single day.
Evo Terra:They employ the "Fair use" doctrine.
Evo Terra:I've linked to a great, and more importantly, podcast-specific,
Evo Terra:opinion by professors of law, Patricia Aufderheide and Peter Jaszi, authors
Evo Terra:of the book Reclaiming Fair Use.
Evo Terra:It's linked in the episode notes.
Evo Terra:But let's deal with that more interesting question of, "What's
Evo Terra:the worst that can happen?"
Evo Terra:Well, there are two worst-case scenarios I see.
Evo Terra:First, if your use of copyrighted music in your podcast is challenged by the rights
holder, you have two choices:capitulate and remove the music, which, by the way,
holder, you have two choices:that's a giant pain in the butt if you've done it for a lot of your episodes.
holder, you have two choices:Or, you'll wind up in court.
holder, you have two choices:You'll wind up in court, either paying expensive lawyers to defend your position
holder, you have two choices:or losing and then paying a gigantic fine.
holder, you have two choices:Second, perhaps more reality-based here, is you could get booted from
holder, you have two choices:platforms like Spotify and YouTube and probably others coming very soon.
holder, you have two choices:Especially as more provisions to the laws that govern the liability of
holder, you have two choices:these big tech firms are challenged - think Section 230, the Digital
holder, you have two choices:Millennium Copyright Act, others.
holder, you have two choices:They are now utilizing algorithms to detect the use of licensed copyrighted
holder, you have two choices:music in the content that they don't think should have that in there.
holder, you have two choices:And if those algorithms change, when those algorithms discover the music
holder, you have two choices:that you have used in your podcast, that you felt you were using under the
holder, you have two choices:Fair use doctrine, those algorithms might say, well, we know nothing about
holder, you have two choices:this Fair use thing, all we know was you've used licensed music in there,
holder, you have two choices:and therefore we're de-platforming you.
holder, you have two choices:We're removing the content.
holder, you have two choices:We're abandoning your account.
holder, you have two choices:There's lots of other things that they can do to you, that robots will do to
holder, you have two choices:you, and you have little or no recourse.
holder, you have two choices:So, is it worth it?
holder, you have two choices:I'll let you answer that question while we talk about Palle's other
holder, you have two choices:question, do I think this is going to change in the future?
holder, you have two choices:Now, when I was chatting with Palle about this on texts, I was rather
holder, you have two choices:pessimistic, but I've changed my tune.
holder, you have two choices:Upon reflection, I've remembered that the moral arc of the universe
holder, you have two choices:tends to bend towards justice.
holder, you have two choices:It may take a very long time, but I think that the work done by the Electronic
holder, you have two choices:Frontier Foundation, E.F.F., and other copyleft organizations, these people
holder, you have two choices:are all trying to make fundamental changes to the draconian copyright
holder, you have two choices:system here in America, as well as the international treaties that govern it.
holder, you have two choices:And I think their efforts will eventually bear fruit.
holder, you have two choices:Now, whether or not that happens soon enough for you, Palle, to play
holder, you have two choices:commercial music in your travel podcast without fear of de-platforming or
holder, you have two choices:court summonses remains to be seen.
holder, you have two choices:Neither you nor I are getting any younger.
holder, you have two choices:So you never know when that's going to happen, but I do
holder, you have two choices:think eventually that it will.
holder, you have two choices:So again, the link to that article on Fair use specifically for podcasts - this
holder, you have two choices:was an article written for podcasters - is linked in the episode notes.
holder, you have two choices:I highly recommend that you give it a read, and then you make your own decisions
holder, you have two choices:on what you should or should not do.
holder, you have two choices:That's up to you.
holder, you have two choices:Palle's question was asked because, well, we're friends, and also,
holder, you have two choices:Palle signed up for a membership at BuyMeACoffee.com/EvoTerra.
holder, you have two choices:Membership has its privileges, and this is just one of them.
holder, you have two choices:If you have a question you want to ask me directly, I do treat the members
holder, you have two choices:a little better than everybody else.
holder, you have two choices:So up to you, what you want to do.
holder, you have two choices:Regardless, I know this.
holder, you have two choices:I shall be back tomorrow with yet another Podcast Pontifications.
holder, you have two choices:Cheers!
holder, you have two choices:Podcast Pontifications is written and narrated by Evo Terra.
holder, you have two choices:He's on a mission to make podcasting better.
holder, you have two choices:Links to everything mentioned in today's episode are in the notes
holder, you have two choices:section of your podcast listening app.
holder, you have two choices:A written-to-be-read article based on today's episode is available at
holder, you have two choices:podcastpontifications.com where you'll also find a video version and a corrected
holder, you have two choices:transcript, both created by Allie Press.
holder, you have two choices:Podcast Pontifications is a production of Simpler Media.