Join Mike Graen as he continues his conversation with Justin Patton and Matt Russell from the Auburn University RFID Lab for an update on the state of RFID in the retail industry including:

↩️ How to know what's coming in and out.

🚪 Opportunities for solution providers.

🔮 The future of RFID in retail.

Greetings as Mike Graen on behalf of the

Walton supply chain center, we want to thank you for joining

our podcast today. Today, it's all about on shelf availability

and the role of RFID. at retail. I'm joined by Justin Patton's,

who is the Executive Director of the Auburn RFID lab. And Matthew

Russell, who is the director of the RFID lab as it relates to

retail. Let's get started. Matthew, I want to take this

back to you a little bit. So I think there's a lot of people on

the line who have heard of Auburn before. And they are

interested. Okay, what does Auburn do? Exactly? And I get

questions all the time. What is art? What is Alec? What is it?

What is a psychopath? Cow? What exactly is a scout app that they

just don't know. So you sent me a couple of slides maybe? And

again, I don't want this to be an Auburn commercial or

presentation. But I think it's really helpful to let the

audience know what exactly are the services in the retail

sector that that the folks at Auburn do? So Matt, if you

wouldn't mind putting up that deck from for him again, real

quick? And if he's walk us through Matthew, what some of

the things that that Auburn does for the retail industry?

Yeah, sure. And Justin, feel free to jump in here at any

point, to say anything. But yeah, I think sometimes people

might think, you know, all we do is the architecting, or maybe

the supplier certification for some of the retailers out there.

But there's a lot of different things. And like Justin said,

the end of the day, you know, our number one product is

students. And so there's a lot of different things, we focus on

big broad buckets, I think would be education, research, and then

also implementation support, supporting retailers, and brands

along their journeys. Here, the list that's on the screen is

just a few of the different things that that we can can sort

of categorize our group into lab tours, feasibility testing, our

expects, and so on. I don't want to go down the list there, but

maybe jump onto the next slide. And then take a look at some of

these. So one of the bigger things that we do is is called

the art program. And what that is, is tag certification. So So

RFID inlay certification, making sure that they meet what we call

a spec requirements. So given a certain scenario that that tag

will perform to the expected performance threshold. And so

for example, if if we have a retail store, and we have

apparel, and we've designated Hey, for all of our T shirts, we

want them to have an RFID tag that meets a certain read

requirement, then we'll test the RFID, tags, the inlays, and make

sure that they meet that standard. And then we'll group

them into what we call specs. And we use those specs to assign

to different products for a given scenario. So here's an

example on the screen, that's its spec, and there'll be a list

of tags. And then if your retailer has a playbook that

says, hey, for all of these products, you have to use spec

and then you can go choose from that list. And then you have

competence that that tag, or that inlay will lead to that,

that rate. So that's a lot of what we do here at the lab, you

can see that photo there is what we call the chamber. So that's

where we benchmark and test the tags for different read

environments. And we can really standardize that all the foam

prevents any outside interference and creates a clean

test environment there. Go to the next slide. So another big

part of what we do is called the Alec program. And that really

grew out of a need for retailers to establish competence that

when their suppliers are tagging that they're doing it the right

way. So all that is is just a sample or a validation program

where a supplier would send in samples. And then we test it to

make sure it meets a retailer's requirement. So it's encoded

correctly, they're using the right tag, it's the right spec,

it's in the right location, and then the sizing and all of that.

So we do that for a lot of suppliers, and most major

retailers that are using RFID go through that program. And it

really helps build competence in all the programs that are out

there. Because if a retailer is not confident that their

suppliers are tagging correctly, then we can't trust the data.

Then at the end of the day, it's not going to work.

We do see some for new brands, like a lot of

times brands will look at this and say what do I do this is it.

It's really more of a help them out to make sure that they don't

make a mistake because what you don't want to do the worst case

is you go out there and you put RFID tags on 5 million units and

you ship them and they're wrong okay because that's fixing that

is not just changing wording on a website, like you have to pull

units out of the supply chain, and it may be a four or five or

six months supply chain to pull that stuff back out through

there. So what we wanted to do is give people a chance to check

on the front end, and most people are pretty good at it, we

find that if it's a brand new category, it's people that are

brand new to RFID. You know, less than 10% of them will make

you know errors the first time around, but 10% is too high. If

we're trying to get you know, good inventory accuracy, we

would rather find out quickly and easily in the less painful

way before people make a very expensive belly flop.

Possibly next slide,

Matthew, just just real quick on that one.

This is this is looks like a little bit of an edge case here.

But Dan from Fujifilm said, you want to set a high quality image

and video of the product. And I think they took it literally and

they sent you a 50 megabyte file, and it crashed everything.

So FYI, you might want to think about this is an edge case we'd

have to work with here. But that was a comment that Dan made. I

want to make sure we got on your radar.

Got it? Yeah, Dan, you can reach out to the Alec email or the

contact form. And they'll help you out with that. Yep. Awesome.

And we also have office hours now to Matthew, don't forget

about that. Yeah, we do. So there's any suppliers on the

call, or anyone that's interested in the Alex side of

things. We do have office hours q&a, I think the link can be

found in your retailers playbook. If they're using Alec

program,

like the office hours of professors, I'll be there from

115 to 119. You may ask me anything you want. Is that one

of those

exactly what it is. The volume is real high,

like we're not. There's a few 1000 things that come through

there a week. And, you know, there's a lot of questions, and

we try to answer everybody's questions as best we could. But

uh, it we found out that the volume was high. And some of

these are a little complex. And we were trying to find a way to

communicate more directly with people rather than just

answering emails back and forth. So that's where we set up the

office hours.

It's awesome. Yeah, I think that's that's been

a huge help. It's easier than going back and forth on that. On

email. Yep. Awesome. Another thing that we do is the old and

lab testing, and then also data collection. So helping,

primarily doing research on on, you know, looking forward,

different tags that could be coming out that are on the

horizon, different read environments, doing testing

there. And then also helping support different projects with

with field work. So going out and collecting data, and then

doing some analysis on that data as well. So these are actually

some photos of the lab. Now we have a mock retail environment

in there that we will use for a lot of different testing.

Yeah, let me interrupt you there. Because you guys provide

a service, I don't think you want to scale everywhere.

Because I think it'd be really hard to do, but we're certainly

going to take advantage at it and a study we're going to talk

about here in a second, which is literally going into a retailer

and doing a cycle count and picking up every garment and

saying Does it have a tag? Is it encoded correctly? Is it the

right tag is being? You know, is it everything that it should be?

And then being able to report back to the retailer, hey, for

these categories, here was your actual correctly tagged

information? And, frankly, from a compliance standpoint, here

were your biggest issues from a supplier standpoint of what we

didn't see get tagged. So is that something that you guys

currently make available? Or it's just because it's so

limited, because you've got so few resources can do this?

Yeah, that's something that we make available as part of

projects that we take on. And it's important, right? Because

if I, if my inventory says I have 10 items, I go out there

and scan the store with RFID. And I read five items, I need to

be sure that those missing five are actually not in a store. And

the only way to really know that for sure is to go out and count

what's in there. And you know, maybe it doesn't have an RFID

tags, there could be a few different reasons why they're

not showing up, or they're actually not in that store. And

so going in we call that doing an audit. It's a huge part of

what we do to help gather data and drive competence and

programs that are being rolled out. Excellent. Yep. For the

next slide. Another another thing that we spent a lot of

time on is lab demos. And then also kind of hand in hand test

space there. But we really do want to show people what RFID is

how it works, then what are some of the different use cases that

it can be used for. So we have a lot of different groups that

come to the lab and offer tours as an educational thing, where

they can learn about RFID active tags and pet Asset Tags, and

then really have a conversation to see how it might work for

them. So anyone on the call, you know, if you are interested in

coming to the lab and want to see it in person, we offer

tours. And we do those all the time. So feel free to reach out

to us. All right, excellent. I think this is the last one here.

But a huge part of, of what we do, too, is data analysis. And

we have a whole team of students that work on that, both to

support existing projects. And then also from the research side

of what does the future of supply chain, data transfer and

data capture look like? Especially with RFID. And these

are some examples of projects and, and things that the team

has worked on the the one on the left there that looks a little

bit like a Petri dish or something, we call that the

bubble of is. But that's really a way to visualize inventory in

a store in the truest way that we can, because we say, you

know, fine, 50% accurate. That may not be intuitive, as far as

what that means. I think there's a few different ways that we can

define inventory accuracy. And so we wanted to create a way to

look at each SKU look at the magnitude of that SKU, and then

I also look at whether it's accurate or not from an

inventory perspective. So that's something that the team is

currently working on, in developing. And then also there

on the right, just some charts, looking at RFID that's coming in

and sources of shrink. And you know, we do all sorts of stuff

and really explore a lot of different aspects of the

inventory accuracy. Justin, anything to to add?

No, you know, Mike, you really helped us out

on that sources of shrink stuff from the beginning. And that's a

key one, making sure that we can know what's coming in what's

going on. It's very quick, interesting example, one of the

things we saw in a retailer was like packages of T shirts, we're

looking at like four packs of white t shirts. And we were

looking at the outbound on those were comparing POS to RFID. And

what left the store and after two months, it was almost the

exact correlation, it was maybe a 1% variance. So what that

tells us is people are not stealing a lot of these, you

know, four packs of white t shirts. It's not a high target

item. But when we looked at the inbound, oh, man, it was a mess

because the assortment was off. I mean, everything was weird.

stuff was getting booked in it wasn't coming in. So you say

well, how do we get back down to a low inventory accuracy? Well,

we can say how it's not because people are stealing all of them

off the shelf. It's because we're messing up the assortment

on the inbound when we replenish. But then if you look

at something like TVs, so the inbound assortments great

because you don't miss order myths receive large volumes of

television sets. But the exit don't look so good, because

that's a high target theft item. That's something that people

walk out of the store with, you know, all the time,

unfortunately. So what you see is different items in the store

have very different behavior, because of the different ways

people use them and purchase those. But they all combined

together to lower inventory accuracy. So we're trying to

understand not just how we fix, you know, the current inventory

inaccuracy issues. But how do we fix the sources of the problem?

We're not just putting a bandaid on there. We want to go to the

source and understand why the inventory accuracy is getting

wrong in the first place. Because that's the ultimate goal

of all this. Yeah,

yep. 100%. I've heard it said, well, RFID, all

I'm doing is fixing the things that I lost on a weekly basis or

whatever it's like, yeah, you are, but you're correcting and

reflecting what you really have. So you can potentially sell more

product, because that's the bottom line. And just to build

off that I got a couple of really, I think really good

questions that I want to ask you guys. One is on the use case.

Back to you, Justin really? So I have Bridgette asking the

question. And you'll laugh at this one. We RFID tag all of our

products for Walmart and we ship them complete. They claim a lot

of shortages, the item is tagged but not of the carton, obviously

was a lot of work with Chip, maybe you spend just a couple of

minutes on what Chip is in the idea of sharing that data across

the supply chain with your suppliers and what the

opportunities are for both claims as well as product

authentication

claims is a big deal. Nobody likes claims. And I

don't know the question was Walmart, but I'm gonna broaden

it just a little bit because I don't want to speak to just

Walmart in general, but uh, there's a lot of retailers that

are using RFID in the store. You know, some people may not like

this. So when I say it, but follow me we want to say this.

When we ship stuff, there's supply chain. ASN 's are

aspirational. What that means is that we think that that was what

went out in that shipment. And we may even have barcode some

stuff on the dock before it went out through there. But for the

most part, most people and I'm talking about suppliers, even

the retailers themselves, when we make as ends in the supply

chain that's based on what the order was generated and what we

Think was supposed to go out through there, the big change we

moved to RFID world is because every single unit has its own

unique serial number, we cannot generate any type of movement

event or shipment event unless we physically scan that item. So

what that means is we have to have a confirmed scan on receipt

of that item for there to even be a transition supply chain.

And that's very powerful. Because what that means is if

you make any, you know, item movement transition or data

transition into a confirmed transition, that's you, there's

not much room for error there. Like if something disappears

between this doctor one of the next one, well, you know where

it went, so we know where to go look for it. The problem there,

though, is Mike is that is an exponentially greater amount of

data. And the responsibility for data handling there is much,

much higher. So it's non trivial. I mean, we can put RFID

tags on and scan them on the store shelf, and then update on

hand quantities all day long. There's no problem. But being

able to compare what's happening point to point and trace that

all the way through is quite challenging. And I think that,

you know, that's what the chip project was that you mentioned,

is how we put systems in place to where we can trust and

transfer that data from partner to partner in the full supply

chain. And we're not quite there yet honestly, the biggest part

of the problem with RFID is not the physics issues. And we said

this earlier in the conversation, this is all an

accounting problem, right? So this is all about how do we move

from quantity level SKU level accounting, into serialized unit

level accounting for full supply chain traceability. And that's

probably one of the biggest IT changes that we've had in retail

supply chain, since people started using computer databases

in the 80s. That's gonna take a long time to do it's gonna be

huge. So that's where we're heading.

Yeah, Bridget, I'm not sure if you understand

the technology he just mentioned. But today, we have an

item, I got this item right here, it has a UPC in the store

says I have a quantity of five. In the future. This has a UPC of

whatever. And I've got a serial number 12345. So each one almost

like the VIN number of your car, you have a unique serial number

for every selling unit. The fact that feature potential is when

you put your items in a box headed to Walmart or any other

retailer, you know the exact serial number of every one that

you put it in a box. When they receive it, they receive it and

they read those tags, if they got them all your good. And if

you didn't get them all ago, when they left our shipment

facility. They were all there. So you need check with your

shipper because we have we have actual proof that it was there.

That's the whole opportunity for claims elimination. Right.

Completely different question. But I think it's an important JW

from barcoding is asking, Are there opportunities for solution

providers to partner with Auburn when working with customers who

are risk responsing for supplier compliance, they're looking for

ways to strengthen industry alignment and increase adoption

and successful and potential for organizations that want to take

on RFID off of their internal organizations that you as you

guys already do, that you're already working on behalf but

for the most part of the retailers? Is there anything

else that could be done as a any help that solution providers can

provide?

So yes, we do some of that we do partner with

solution providers on a few different projects. Typically,

we do them on a per project basis or directly with the

suppliers themselves. And mainly that's a volume issue. There's

just so many. I mean, there's you talked about a pyramid

earlier, when you talk about RFID tags, you know, there's a

few companies that make chips, there's quite a few more that

make inlays. But when you get down to the label level, it's a

vast sea of suppliers out there. And it's very hard to figure out

who all the solution providers are and who their partner bases

are and who they're working with on the retail side. So our goal

is a lab. And this is what a strategy that we chose long ago

Dr. Hargrave chose us before us, because we focus on the end

users. So we spend all of our time that we can making sure

that the retailers and the retail brands have the tools

that they need to grow and drive adoption. We partner with

solution providers as much as possible to get there. But our

focus has not been as much on developing tools or developing

market. We don't do a lot of going out there and do a market

analysis for solution providers or VC funds and things like

that. We're focusing more on the end users themselves. So as much

as we have partnership on projects with them on that.

Absolutely. But it's not a standalone project path normally

for us.

Gotcha. Gotcha.

Now when it comes to partnering solution

providers with the actual Auburn labs, specifically, potentially

providing solutions for your lab that that you do I mean, you

believe you have sponsorship opportunities for solution

providers if they want to be become part of the Auburn lab,

right? We do we have an advisory board for the

lab that we've had for since the beginning. Mike, you've been on

that thing for however long, long time. So for years, it's

one of the Advisory Board has been a, it's changed a lot, you

know, the advisory board is truly an advisory board. So it's

a group of companies that get together. And typically, they're

folks that are interested in industry development as a whole.

There's a lot of competitors on there. But um, we do have

opportunities for folks that partner on that advisory board

for, especially for research projects and stuff. One of the

biggest changes we've seen, and I think everybody has, since

COVID, is it used to be we would come together like four times a

year, and you'd have a big group room full of people. And it's

almost like a little mini conference. Now, it's a lot more

challenging to facilitate collaboration and conversation,

I think sometimes, because zoom meetings and stuff are awesome.

But you know, you don't get the side context, I think a lot of

times that you would from, there's things, especially the

end users cannot say that I hear this all the time, like, I'll be

happy to say this in a room full of people. But I will never say

salon, because I don't know who's recording. So it's really

kind of limited some of the sharing that we've seen as an

industry. And I don't mean this in a bad way. I'm just saying

that the board is changing. So there's definitely opportunities

for that advisory board model. But we're always looking for

folks who are interested in long term growth and overall market

development. Awesome, perfect.

And I don't know put you on the spot a

little bit. The the next opportunity to actually meet I

believe is going to be September 14, that Cape Canaveral is going

to be both aviation aerospace and retail, that maybe maybe a

shameless plug for that if anybody's interested in

potentially attending that.

Yeah, thanks, Micah, aero ID summit, I think

there's some spots left. So that's in the Kennedy Space

Center. We're doing some work with NASA, the director of deep

space Logistics is going to come speak, we got speakers from

McDonald's and Walmart. We've got folks from Boeing, we got

folks from Delta, I mean, so a whole crew. So a lot of the

problems that aviation and space are having translate immediately

into opportunities for retail as a public university. All this

money that me and you and everybody else are investing his

taxpayers in an acid is great, but like if they're gonna put

RFID on a space station, which they have, the idea is to

transfer that technology down here and to use for warehouses

and stores. So there's a little bit of a conversation about what

they want, but then there's a lot of conversation but what's

gonna happen on the retail side, so if you're interested, come on

Arrow ID summit.com is the website you can register. It's

free to come. And I love to see you all down there if you'd like

to show up.

Awesome, perfect.

I'm getting several questions on here that

look like more like asset protection, return fraud, etc.

Since a lot of questions, we don't have time to cover all

these. I'm afraid I'm loving. They're asking the questions.

I'll do a shameless plug. The next conversation is on retail

that Matt Pfeiffer and I are going to be doing is September

the sixth, I can't remember what time it is. Sometime in the

morning, I think it is going to be with I think the industry

leader about RFID and asset protection, Joe Cole, and a guy

by the name of Randy Dunn, who was with Zebra corporation. So I

would encourage you guys to sign up for that one, we're gonna go

deep, and it's going to be all things asset protection, loss

prevention as it relates to RFID. Just just just, you know,

I'm getting another question around. This is an RFID for

retail, but they would be very interested in hearing more about

RFID possibility in general contracting building for

international retail, specifically remodeling

reconstruction sites for Jeep where GPS man named Mike

sandspit, RFID could so plant that seed for what it's worth.

We got about five minutes left, I want to I want to be

sensitive, make sure that we start started on time and stop

on time was just stopped a couple of minutes early. Here's

I guess I got a couple. And by the way, I got through about

four of the questions I put together for these guys. Great

answers and great questions coming from the audience. So

thank you for that. But I think the one thing that I say there's

two, okay, Matthew, I'm gonna jump to you and say, What is

your vision for RFID? In retail, I mean, you're, you're obviously

fairly new in this space, but you are the guy who's just as

tapped on the shoulder and say you own RFID at retail, so

versus where we are today? Where do you see this thing going two

to three to four years from now?

I think it's it goes beyond just RFID. In the future. I think

like Justin said earlier, it really is the shift to serialize

data as a whole. And that requires a complete overhaul of

the existing systems. It's an accounting thing of moving

towards individual units. And so I think that's, that's going to

change. And you know, I don't even think we've talked about

serialized checkout yet. But when we move towards that, you

know, being able to identify on the individual level when we're

selling units, and then having those leave the stores. I think

that also opens up opportunities for asset protection and like

you said earlier, not just identifying what we need to

correct, but also what's causing that. I think from an RFID

perspective, that's where we're going to begin to look is not

just what do we have in our stores? How do we count that,

but looking further upstream, and then looking downstream at

shrink, and then beginning to be proactive there. So from my end,

that's, that's where I feel like RFID is gonna move, you know,

looking at fixed infrastructure solutions, looking at DC's,

manufacturing exits from stores, choke points there that we can

capture and use more data, rather than just identifying

what do we have in the store? All the way at the end of the

supply chain? All right,

we'll put you on the spot. Do you see a day where between RFID

and computer vision, I can have a seamless checkout experience?

That doesn't make me go through a register?

I hope so. I mean, I think it depends, like depends on the

products. I think there's a lot of variables. But I know that

there are a lot of retailers now that are working and looking at

solutions like that. And I think we saw that start with with

Amazon kind of lighting that fire with the bigger stores. But

now it's yeah, there's there's plenty of retailers out there

that I know are exploring different options like that. So

yeah, I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if but if it did

become something in the future.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Thank you. And question for you, Justin.

Anything that I didn't ask that's not on your mind when it

comes to RFID? Retail? What did I not ask that I should have

asked him? Well, what's the what's the burning things that

are going on in your hearing conversations? Again, no

confidential data should be shared. But what are the things

that are on people's minds that haven't come up with this

conversation?

The biggest topic in retail supply chain now in

the future. And the biggest thing for RFID is 2d barcodes,

like the future of RFID. Weird is it as to say is 2d barcode to

data matrix. We are about to as an industry, whether everybody

wants to or not shift to serialized unit level tracking

at the barcode for checkout, UPC barcodes, the 1d barcodes, G

tins, are on their way out. And we've already seen a few

retailers get their use got some folks like h&m, Adidas, and Nike

and some of the others that are really pushing that way. But GS

one has a major initiative for 2027. To try to get everybody

over there, a lot of the retailers have already done

national studies on whether they have images that are capable of

capturing a 2d barcode or 2d data matrix for checkout

systems. And for brands and brand manufacturers, that's a

big responsibility shift. It's not just RFID tags, and these

things are serialized, they will have to put a serialized barcode

on all those units, and it will be reconciled back with the RFID

tags on there, we've already been down this road with some

other industries like aviation, and that is going to be on the

retailer side, it is a massive change in their data handling, I

mean, you're talking about restructuring the entire

inventory management systems of all of their warehouses, all of

the retail stores, the smaller retailers are going to be a

little bit more flexible and agile, and I think they're gonna

get there faster, the bigger retailers, it's going to take

them a while. So if you're working for a retailer brand,

and you do not have a team already in place that's focused

on on serialized inventory, or 2d barcodes, or at least one

person, I will be very concerned because you're you're about to

get left behind. Because what happens is once we moved to

those serialized accounting systems, all the rest of this

stuff, just begin. It's easy. The biggest problem that we have

in retail is the approximations that happen when we move to

quantity accounting, that changes the annual financial

auditing, it changes the Cycle Count process, it changes the

claims, conversation, shrink everything, like it'll be the

probably we won't even recognize what retail supply chain as an

industry looks like in 10 to 15 years. And that's the thing

that's the most exciting to be a part of, but it's all you know

it and accounting at this point, just making sure they get their

stuff, putting it in place. But it's weird after 15 or 18,

almost 20 years. The future of RFID is barcode, but but it is

that's where it's going.

Well, two things for you real quick.

Number one, we did a podcast with cinthol who's part of the

RFID lab and Myron Burke and I think Jonathan Gregor from GS

one, it's out there on the conference and say conversations

at retail site and the name of it was the ID in RFID. Because

ID the ID is the data part and it can be radiofrequency

identification or could be a barcode it doesn't have to be so

it's the serialized portion. Go back and check that if you're

interested if you're the second thing is the procedure or the

direction that GS one has taken just Google sunset 2027 that's

the that's the acronym that they've used. And that's that

will help to provide people that have registered maybe Justin we

ought to get on up what That's it wrong.

Sunrise. So I did the same thing. Oh, they get so

annoyed. I call it sunset 2027. I was like, no, no, we're not

sunsetting we're sun rising. It's a optimist.

So I just made the GS one marketing people mad,

but they'll get over it. Yeah, it's the same idea, though. It's

actually everything is going to be serialized item, whether it's

RFID or not. Maybe just a you and I and Jonathan jump on a

podcast at some point in time to help to help the industry out.

Well, I'm gonna wrap this up, we got about four minutes left,

just Matthew, thank you, welcome. You're gonna take this

Thanks Mike.

farther than we've been able to take it 20 years, when you

finish out your career, you'll be able to say, I remember

talking about Justin and when Mike about maybe one of these

days, we could use this for asset protection purposes. So

you're, you're coming in just at the right time. We appreciate

that adjusting just for you. You and I have been working together

for 20 years. It has been fun. It has been challenging, but

there's never been a boring moment. There's always stuff

going on in this space. And, and I appreciate your friendship.

And I appreciate that. The one thing I did want to mention we

are we are going to be kicking off at onhand accuracy study, I

want to do a shameless plug. Justin is working with Matthew,

and about what I call the academic Dream Team. Dr. Bill

Hargrave from the University of Memphis, Dr. Glenn Ricci from

supply chain at Auburn. And Dr. Matt Waller from the University

of Arkansas, we're gonna go work with some retailers to be

announced yet to measure the impact of on hand accuracy to

sales very specifically, if I change my on hand from 55 to 60.

What is the impact of sales because everybody assumes it's a

good thing, but I don't think we have any empirical evidence. So

just more to follow on that. But Justin, Matthew, thank you very

much for your time. Y'all have a great weekend safe drive to

Atlanta. And thank you, everybody for participating in

today's call. Thanks. Hey, thanks. Mike,

Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with

the Auburn RFID lab. Join us next time as we have another

special guest to talk about RFID and asset protection. Join me as

we welcome Joe Cole, who is the vice president of asset

protection for the Macy's Corporation. He'll be talking

about how he's leveraging RFID and other technologies for the

asset protection space at Macy's. See you then