Discover why podcast download numbers DON'T matter for business growth! In this eye-opening conversation with eCommerce expert Matt Edmundson, we uncover the hidden power of podcasting that most business leaders completely miss.

Matt reveals how potential clients had already decided to work with him before they even spoke - simply from listening to his podcast. Learn why having 100 targeted listeners can be more valuable than 10,000 random ones, and how podcasting creates the critical "know, like, and trust" factor that traditional marketing can't match.

If you're a business leader wondering if podcasting is worth the investment, this episode will completely change your perspective. Matt shares his 6-year journey with eCommerce Podcast and the strategic pivots that have helped him land acquisition deals and partnerships worth millions.

📱 CONNECT WITH MATT:

Website: https://ecommercepodcast.net

LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/mattedmundson

🎧 SUBSCRIBE to PodJunction for more insights from business leaders using podcasting as a growth strategy!

📱 CONNECT WITH SADAF:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sadafbeynon/

In that microsecond when they were listening to the, the show and like, this guy's good, or this guy's bad, or I'm, I'm willing to talk to this guy. I'm not willing to talk to this guy. All of these micro decisions are made, aren't they? When people listen to a podcast, if you take that, then that networking, that influence and that credibility. They all help your business just because people buy from people they know, like, and trust, right?

Sadaf Beynon: Welcome back to PodJunction Podcast, the show where business leaders share how they use podcasting to grow, connect, and build their brands. Today I bring you the gift of Matt Edmundson, the man who needs no introduction around here, because he and I co-hosted the original version of this podcast. Matt is still behind the mic hosting eCommerce Podcast recently named one of Feed Spot's top 100 eCommerce podcasts.

Matt Edmundson: Thank you very much. It's, uh, can I just say, uh, we were ranked number nine outta oh 100.

Sadaf Beynon: Well top

10, right?

Matt Edmundson: Yes. That makes us top 10. Yeah. Which, you know, it's very exciting. Yeah. I dunno what it means, but it's very exciting.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah,

it's good. The numbers look good.

Matt Edmundson: What's really funny is on that list, um, the, the, that I obviously know quite a lot of the e-commerce podcasters, right? Mm-hmm. And so I know a lot of the guys on that list. And so, um, Brett Curry, for example, is on the list. Mm-hmm. And when the email came out, I happen to have a call that day with Brett Curry.

Have you had Brett Curry on the show yet?

Sadaf Beynon: Uh,

no. He's lined up for being on the show. Not on yet. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Um, so when Brett, when Brett came on the show, I was like, dude. You should go and check this page out. He was like, I'm not happy because he's like, you are nine and I'm in whatever position. He was like 20th or something.

Uh, and so yeah, so there's a few of my friends I've called since being on that list.

Sadaf Beynon: Healthy competition. I love it.

One of the cool things I think about podcasting. Um, is obviously the network inside of things from a business point of view. We've talked about that a lot.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: But I love the fact that I can look down that list, that top 100 list and actually say there are a chunk of those guys and girls who are friends.

Um,

do you, Do you know what I mean? And, and I've got to know them over the years, not in a wear competition kind of, um, way. 'cause obviously, you know, I'm, I'm number nine and they're not. So, um, it's not competition. Uh, but no, and just in a general kind of. Actually not being afraid to talk to those people who are in the same space mm-hmm.

Who are doing the same sort of thing with the podcasting thing.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Quote unquote competitors are. Mm-hmm. Um, and you, you get to, to sort of become friends with them and actually you get to scratch their back. They get scratch yours. We send clients their way. They send clients that way. Mm-hmm. So, excuse me. Yeah, it works super well.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I totally agree. I had Matt Halleran on recently.

Matt Edmundson: That was a great show, by the way.

Sadaf Beynon: Thank you. Great.

Matt Edmundson: I really great. I really enjoyed that show. I did listen to it and I thought he was really good.

Yeah. I'm not gonna

do the singing thing though. I thought, no, I'm, I'm gonna spare the world. Um, that, that nightmare Matt singing. Geez. Can you imagine? Well, you don't wanna imagine, do you really?

Sadaf Beynon: No, no. Let's move

on,

Matt Edmundson: but let's move on.

Matt Edmundson: It's not an easy sentence to say, is it?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Sorry.

Matt Edmundson: So yeah, so we have, um. An e-commerce services business for want of a better expression. So we help, um, other e-commerce businesses, uh, with their e-comm business, whether that's through services like we do, their marketing or their fulfillment. They're probably the most popular ones, whether it's through coaching, we do coaching.

Um. Or even one of the things that we've started doing in the last 12 months is acquiring e-commerce businesses and partnering with them. And we take equity, um, in their e-com business, um, and, you know, work with them to help it grow. And everybody wins at the end of the day. And that's the, you know, that's kind of what we do.

I know what we'll do. We'll set up a podcast to help grow our business. Uh, it's not our story at all. Um, we just started the eCommerce Podcast because we thought it'd be a laugh. Jesus, just like,

Sadaf Beynon: and it was,

Matt Edmundson: and it was, it's, it's been great fun. But also, um, I think we had a very different. Way of understanding about podcasts when we started it five or six years ago.

So, I. I, I guess we are changing eCommerce Podcast would be a better ex, a better way to put it now. So how it started is not what it's turning into. Um, but yeah, that's, that's kind of a long-winded answer to your question, isn't it? So we do e-commerce services. We, we do e-commerce acquisition. Um, we invest in the recon businesses and we have some fun doing that.

An EP. As we call it internally, eCommerce Podcast, because this gets really boring saying eCommerce Podcast all the time. So we just call it EP. Um, that kind of is our, our main lead generation tool. Mm-hmm. Um, certainly very top of funnel lead generation tool. So, um, yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: Cool. So you said you wanted to, you started the eCommerce Podcast to build an audience.

Matt Edmundson: Uh, well, we built an audience, um, and we obviously have a lot of people listening to the show, um, or watching it on YouTube or whatever. I, it's always intrigued me how, like if I go to an event mm-hmm. Um, so in a couple weeks, uh, I was, I'm not going anymore, but for, for, for reasons I won't bore people with.

But, um, there's an event, for example, coming up in Dallas, the end of this month, uh, called Subs Summit. And I can go to that event, um, which is all about subscription commerce, which is part of e-commerce.

Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Uh, you know, the whole subscription thing. And I can go to that event and people go, oh, you are that guy.

Um, and, and, and, and I'm, I get very scared when they say that. It's like, you're not a police

officer. Right.

Sadaf Beynon: Stalking me.

Matt Edmundson: Um, so yeah, it's how has it expanded the influence? So we've definitely grown the audience, but as a result, I think we have, we have increased our influence because. We are rightly or wrongly seen now as experts in the field, right?

Mm-hmm. So, um, which is, which always intrigues me actually. 'cause when you run an interview podcast, which is what we do on EP, we interview people, um, it's not a coaching podcast. It's not a, um, uh, anything sort of about me, at least not anymore. It's all about the guest.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: And so I'm not the expert they are, but um, I get them perceived as an expert 'cause I'm talking to people.

I think it does create influence and I think it. The podcast, it's a bit like writing a book. You know, the ability to say, uh, Edmundson author, you know, Edmundson podcaster just gives you that influence and maybe you wouldn't have had if I just wrote Edmundson.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. There's that credibility that gets built into it.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. And there's, there's a close link isn't there, between credibility and influence. Mm-hmm. Um, and you can. Especially in the long term. You can have a lot of, you take someone like Andrew Tate, for example, had a lot of influence, but zero credibility. So his influence won't last long. You take someone like Jesus, you know, credibility is high, uh, influence is high.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm. I like that.

Matt Edmundson: That's deep, isn't it? That this time in the morning

Sadaf Beynon: deep or a bank

holiday

Monday.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Let's write that down quick.

Sadaf Beynon: Um, no, that's good. So you talked about, um, networking initially when we first started recording and now you're talking about credibility, you're talking about influence. How do those feed into, as a result of your podcasting? How does that feed into your business?

Matt Edmundson: It, it, it's not rocket science is, it's sort of to then make the, the leap, which says, well, if podcasting helps you with networking, the more people you meet, the more likely you are to, especially if you're meeting the right kind of people.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Um, whether through or podcast, whether in person or whatever.

Right.

Matt Edmundson: Um. Building a business without networking, um, is, is is an odd thing to try and do. I think, um, you, you have to meet people. People have to like you and engage with you, and I think that obviously has an impact.

Um, and I think it's really interesting with podcasts, the amount of people that I talk to who feel like they already know me, right? So we have just done an acquisition with a a, a company. Um, as, as you were very well aware, we've just done an, an acquisition. Um, what was interesting at the start of that deal, right?

Mm-hmm. Which again, sort of bridges the gap then to influence, doesn't it?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Um, so before we'd even met, they'd listened to me, they heard my opinion on some things. They just, they'd actually, I don't dunno whether they would verbalize it this way. They'd made a decision whether they liked me or not.

Mm-hmm. In that microsecond when they were listening to the, the show and like, this guy's good, or this guy's bad, or I'm, I'm willing to talk to this guy. I'm not willing to talk to this guy. All of these micro decisions are made, aren't they? When people listen to a podcast, how does he, it's simple things.

Like what does he sound like? How does he laugh? What's, you know, is he a boring guy? Do what does he, how does he respond maybe to when he is talking to someone who's really boring? Uh, which obviously never happens on my podcast. Um, but it's one of those where if you take that, then that networking, that influence and that credibility.

Um, and credibility also adds to trust, doesn't it? And so then that. You are then influencing how they perceive you. And marketing is all about the, um, what does Rich Rising say? Marketing is all about, managing perception. Mm-hmm. Um, and so with those things, you are managing that perception and like say on this particular deal, before I'd even spoken to them, all of those things had been happening.

Yeah. Because of the podcast.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. I think that's, I think that's such a good point because if you were putting together a, um. Some kind of document to try and do business with someone. Those are the things you would leave off. Mm-hmm. Off those pages, and it would all be about what you can achieve. Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah, they are. It's, it's an interesting because simple things like, um, you take Pod Junction, right? Is someone gonna be prepared to work with Pod Junction? Well, they're gonna listen to you talk and um, you don't come across as the expert necessarily 'cause you're interviewing experts.

Right. But how you phrase questions, how you ask them. How you listen to people, how you respond to what they say, how you then ask follow up questions. These are all these sort of micro indicators, which are, I think, super subconscious, right?

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Um, so the listeners listening to, uh, deciding whether or not to work with you, these are all these unconscious signals which you are giving off as to whether or not you are credible, whether or not you can help them.

It fascinates me how that works. Um, but these aren't things that you are taught in sales school on how to close a sale. These aren't things that you are taught in. Um, I wasn't taught in my degree. Do you know what I mean? But it's, it, it makes sense because it's human behavior. And, and, and humans respond to other humans, don't they?

Um. So, especially in, again, not with, I don't wanna get too philosophical or deep, but I think we live in a world now, which has become very, is isolationist. So it's very, um, I work at home, I'm in my shed. You are working at home. Whereas, I mean, I appreciate it's bank holiday, but if you think about pre covid, we were in the office the whole time, right?

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Not only am I not listening to people, I'm not listening to nature and all that sort of stuff around me. So I've cut my, we live in a world where everything gets sort of cut off, um, and. As a result, I think it's harder and harder to break into that, right? Mm-hmm. And to, um, if I think about business, for example, I do, if I think about business 30 years ago when I started, right, there were a lot more meals involved.

So they're sort of in this isolated phase. And I think the way you respond, it draws them in and it gives them this sort of sense of feeling connected and community. Um. That's definitely not something you get taught at Harvard. Well, I mean, I say definitely. I dunno, I've not been for a little while. Maybe they do teach it now.

Um, but I think it's these things, these sort of soft things which actually make a big impact on your business, but they're, they're sort of hard to define really.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, totally agree. I like how you called it micro indicators. Good word. Um, but yeah. 'cause I think it captures the verbals, the nonverbals. And it really helps people to figure out if they like you or not.

Like you said. No. Like, and trust,

Uh, thought experiment in many ways.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Um, Matt, I just wanna go back to the networking side of things. Have you, well, you've talked about your business performing so much better as a result of having a podcast, and you've talked about your friends who are in the e-commerce industry and have podcasts and how they do so well.

Have you ever faced any kind of skepticism from pe others in the e-commerce industry about whether podcasting is a serious tool or not?

Matt Edmundson: Oh yeah. You face it all the time, don't you? Uh, you normally face it from people that one, don't understand it, or two have tried it and not, it's not worked for them.

Um, what did you try, what did you do? And why? Why did it not work? What did success look like for you when you got started, and why did you not achieve that?

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: And most of the time it's because. I would say of low numbers. It's a really odd one in the sense that you do a podcast. Um, and I think you've had quite a lot of guests, um, who talk about podcasting's.

Not a short, it's not, I do a podcast today. I see the results tomorrow. So I do a podcast today. I see the results in 18 months. Right? Yeah. You've got to think outside of this short termism box, it can work in the short term. Um, especially if you put money behind it. Right. Which is a, a, a big thing. I was, one of the, um, things, I was talking to Brett Curry about the other day, he was saying that there's some new ad forms coming out from Google, which are gonna enable, he thinks podcasters, especially with YouTube channels, to use ads to target, um, people to get subscribers more.

'cause once he's cracked it. And he said to me once, once I've cracked it and got to position eight, I'll tell you what I did, Matt. I'm like, yeah, whatever. Um, so if you can, it's like any form of advertising, I suppose, you can put money behind it and see results pretty much straight away in terms of the numbers that downloads what, that's what that doesn't relate to.

Even if you get 10,000 downloads tomorrow because you've only done one show, it doesn't relate to that. Um, emotional currency that sort of know, like, and trust factor. Mm-hmm. Right? Because that takes time to build Any relationship, takes time to build and say that's true with people listening to you.

Uh. So, yeah, I think if I go back to this idea then that actually people have been unsuccessful with a podcast because they've looked at download numbers and thought I've had a hundred people listen to the show. Therefore, it's not functioning. Um. I, I get it because I, I think if you would've asked me at the start when we started EP, it would've been the same thing.

Mm-hmm. Right? We, I, if they'd have said to me, oh, Matt, in five years time you'll have a hundred people a month downloading the show. I'd have been, well, that's a waste of time, isn't it? Um, but now I'm like, well, if there's a hundred people downloading the show. They're my ideal client. Yeah, there's a, Do you know what I mean?

Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Um, but I think what's becoming more and more obvious now with both YouTube and podcasting is actually the channels with the small numbers can do increasingly well if you target a specific niche.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: And if you don't worry too much about the numbers, I'd rather have a hundred highly targeted ICPs listening to the podcast than I would have 10,000 just.

Sadaf Beynon: Passing time.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Just people that aren't, aren't really who, who, who are, are helpful for my business. And I, I mean, obviously I don't mind 'em listening to it, but I, it, one of them is gonna produce a lot more free than the other, if that makes sense.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Um, think it's too technical. Think it's something they can't do.

It's a medium that they don't understand. Again, because I think it's not in, in the world we, in which we live, especially in e-comm now, it's really hard to look at something like podcasting and justify it because it's really hard to track the ROI.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Right. Whereas if I spend 10 grand on Google ads, I can track that ROI.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: We do it every month. We spend tens of thousands of pounds with Google, with meta, and I can track it and I can go, right. You know that that performed well, that didn't perform well. Let's do more of that. Let's not do more of that. It's instant we can see it.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: But man alive is expensive.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

He was one of the guests on the podcast. Mm-hmm. A real coup to get him actually as a guest, a real coup. Um, he's quite high up in Google, and, and he, he came and talked about how, um, there was a woman who came, they were looking at a woman who was buying a pair of shoes. Mm-hmm. Um, and trying to track down, um.

What caused her to buy those shoes? Right, so she went onto the website. She bought a pair of shoes, but she had, I think it was like 236. Of these, um, touch points with the brand, right? 236. So she went to the website, she read blogs, she looked at their organic social posts, she looked at paid media. She watched maybe a video.

Um, we're thinking of, um, selling our business. Is this something that would be interesting to you?

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: At what point did they choose to? By, for want of a better expression. Mm-hmm. At which point in the show was it a sentence that I said, Do you know what I mean? It's really hard to start to measure it.

All I can go is Yeah, someone listen to the show. I don't even know what episodes they listen to.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm.

Matt Edmundson: Um, so yeah, I, I find, I find that this is why people struggle with podcasting a little bit. Um, I appreciate, this is a long answer to your question.

Sadaf Beynon: Keep going.

Matt Edmundson: Um, because of things like that, because it's hard to measure or they've struggled to understand the, the.

What actually does happen? There's a bit of soft, there's quite a lot of soft skills, I think involved in podcasting.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I think you're, you're totally right.

Like if you, I guess our experiences, if you, um, stay in or, or keep trying with your podcast rather than giving up after a short term time if you feel like it's not working. I think our experience has been that we've learned so much a result, as a result of carrying on.

Matt Edmundson: Yep.

Sadaf Beynon: And as you said, one of the things was, you know, straight out the gate, you want thousands of downloads.

You think that's when you've made it and that's when it's really working. But actually I think from our experience and learning, it's been about the niche.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It has. And you're right, it's about longevity. Mm-hmm. So what number are we on now with Pod Junction? What, 80 something. So you're in the eighties already?

First five episodes let's, you know, within five episodes, I think you're gonna know if you've got a feel for whether you personally want to do this.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Um, within 20 episodes, I think you're gonna find out what your voice is. Do I mean what this, what this show looks like? Um. 95% of people have dropped out by the time you get to episode 20.

I dunno what the stats are, but it's like 95 or 98%. It's some, it's some horrendous amount. Right. People. But I think in your head now with podcasting, if you wanna win, you've gotta go, I've gotta do this for 18 months, do one podcast a week for 18 months. Well that means I've gotta do about 75, 80 episodes.

Yeah. And then I can start to make some decisions.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

If you just wanna make three or four videos or three or four podcasts and we're fine. That's not really a podcast. That's just more of a presentational. Do you know what I mean? That's just a few videos. Um. I think podcasting itself, just the word to me implies longevity and consistency, and you have to, it's something you have to keep doing.

Um, so yeah, I, I think that's a really important point.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm. Hmm. Thanks Matt. What are some of the biggest challenges you're facing at the moment when it comes to eCommerce Podcast?

Matt Edmundson: Other than my team? Yes.

Um, we run other people's eCommerce businesses through our eCommerce services. Um. Now for the last however long, eight, 12 months, we've been thinking about acquisitions and, and partnering with eCommerce businesses because the nature of our business has changed. The podcast, I think, is now changing as a result to help us better reach our, um, ICP or i ideal client profile.

I just, I dunno. I dunno what you're talking about. Um, so I think because the nature of business has changed for us over the last 12 months, it's meant that we've had to change. The eCommerce Podcast. Mm-hmm. And I have no idea how many episodes we've done. So I dunno if you actually know how many episodes we've done.

There's hundreds. Yeah. Lots. Right? We've done it for five years. So, you know, we've done it a fair, fair amount. Um, maybe six years this year. Six actually. A jeez. Mm-hmm. So. So even six years in, we're still pivoting. And I, and I think that's probably the biggest challenge is to not for me, is not to go well we're six years in.

It's easy to do. Um, I can just rock up. I can just lag my way through it and not really care. 'cause I think that actually comes through and I think people stop listening.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

So. You've got to think a little bit more medium term. Mm-hmm. With the whole thing. And so, yeah, I would say that pivot, which I is a word I really can't stand.

Sadaf Beynon: But you used another one right after that reinvention. That's good.

Matt Edmundson: Yes. Let's use that one. The reinvention. The recalibration. The recalibration.

Sadaf Beynon: No, I think, I think what you're saying actually, it's a really healthy way to, to podcast because as you said, you know, you're, you're.

Staying, um, relevant with the audience and with the business because if you just carry on the way you always did right from the start, it's not gonna resonate in the same way.

Matt Edmundson: No, it doesn't because like you say, the business changes, but also I think the way people listen and consume content changes, right?

Mm-hmm. Do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And they're not massive changes. Um, but it's easy, I think, if you're busy just to fall into the same repetitious pattern.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Um, and I think you need to be a little bit more Madonna. I. But not too much. Madonna, you know, we, we did. I'm showing my age now, talking about Madonna.

And I think I. Um, yeah, it's, it's so easy just to fall into the default routine and forget about it, and it just gets boring. It's like gonna the gym and doing the same exercise all the time. Mm-hmm. You know, just, I'm bored already. Yeah. So I have to change my gym routine every six weeks, otherwise I'm out.

Right.

Sadaf Beynon: I think, I think there's a balance because we talked about how, you know, it can take up to 12 to 18 months for it to start actually bringing back some kind of fruit, whatever that looks like. Um. So there's an element of staying the course and just going through those motions because you have to.

Matt Edmundson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think I would add to this, that actually the danger is you change too much.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: And so then it becomes unrecognizable. Yeah. Because you've changed too much and you are changing too often.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Um, people. People like the comfort of consistency, don't they? They like the comfort of knowing how something's gonna look and feel. And I think people are happy for change in some ways, but how you, how you implement that change, you've really gotta think about your audience.

Mm-hmm. Uh, in podcasting, if I was, if it was different every week or I was changing this or I was changing that, people would really struggle. But the, even though we're changing EP at the moment. The base of it will still be very familiar to our audience, if that makes sense. Yeah. Because I think otherwise I should do a, do a different podcast.

Yeah. Um, and, and, and gather a different audience.

Matt Edmundson: Ooh, that's a really good question. How would I do it differently?

Well, I, I mean, I would've done it as an interview podcast straight away.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Rather than the way we launched EP, which was just me rambling on for the first 21 episodes, which even I got bored of, to be fair. Um, I think I would focus more on who my guest is rather than who I'm trying to reach as the audience.

Yeah. Um, so I wouldn't do it as an audience building. Strategy first. I mean, I'm, I'm very aware that you do build an audience and you have to think about that.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: But I would do, the first thing I'd do is I'd focus on the guests. So I'd make a list of a hundred people who I thought was gonna have the biggest influence on my business.

Um, I would have a lot more of my, and this is one of the changes we're making in EP actually, I would have a lot more of my ideal client profile on the show.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: So historically EP has been me interviewing experts, um, which is great if you're trying to build a tribe, if you're trying to build an audience because people want to hear from experts.

Um, but I think with the route that we're going down, I need to invite onto the show more of the founders. Um, just to hear their story, hear what they're going through, that's gonna help me with my sales pitch, with understanding, you know, the challenges people are facing with networking and so on and so forth.

Mm-hmm. So I'm not ditching the experts at all. I'm keeping them, but I'm also bringing in more of the founder.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Um. I dunno if I was, if I was starting out, whether I'd experiment with this, I, I wonder if it's slightly more, you need to get your feet under the table a little bit first.

I feel like I'm, I've got my feet under the table, I suppose quite a privileged position in, in a lot of ways, um, is. I am ne ironically, when we launched EP, there was a lot of me talking.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Um, and we found the interview thing worked better. It was much easier that I didn't have to work as hard to prepare content.

There's, I mean, there's a thousand reasons why Interviews worked super well. All of that set. Um, thanks to, uh, Peter Murphy Lewis who has been on the show, I feel. Mm-hmm. A couple times. It has been on a couple of times. And if you need a marketing. Consultant guy, he's just, he's a really interesting chap to talk to, thinks very differently.

A third pillar of content, I suppose. Um, we are gonna create these mini miniseries, I suppose, is a way to, is to sort of frame it. Um, and there'll be like, I don't know, five to 10 episodes around a topic where it's probably just me. Um. With a talking headshot, but also thinking a bit more about YouTube.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Um, mixing those with blog bo uh, blog posts and, um, downloads. Mm-hmm. You know, the, the freebie stuff. Bringing that together a bit more, I think is gonna be a, a, a little bit more helpful. I dunno if it'll work something that we're gonna experiment with. Um, and I think I'm in a place now actually where I, where the audience do want to hear from me a little bit more.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Um, and so, um. Yeah. Bringing these sort of little miniseries that people can opt in or of, or out of, I think will be really an interesting experiment.

Sadaf Beynon: I think that's cool.

Matt Edmundson: That's cool. Time will tell.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, listening to you, it sounds like your focus would be a lot more on networking with the right people as opposed to building thousands of listeners.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Um, the, the more interesting numbers to me are people that have contacted me

Sadaf Beynon: mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: As a result. Right. Um, they're always more interesting.

And I don't need many of them to make the whole business work.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: If that makes sense. You. Yeah. You know, if I get two or three acquisitions a year, well that, that's a big deal for us as a company. Mm-hmm. Doesn't, it's not mega high numbers. Do you know what I mean? Um, and so yeah, I would, I would definitely say I focus, I'm, one of the changes that we're making is.

But I feel like I need to. I need to establish a bit more the founders on the show and ex establish I, I need to do at least two or three of these sort of miniseries before I've really fully understood it.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Once I've done that and I feel like the content is there, I. Then I think we will then start to grow the audience as well.

Mm-hmm. Um, but the primary focus at the moment is the guests. And again, guests are cheaper, aren't they? Right. So, um, it's easy to, in some respects, to find a guest. Just go to LinkedIn, uh, or there's gonna be people that you know, or people that you might not know, but you know, somebody who knows them.

Mm-hmm. Right? So, within a day, you could easily make a list of a hundred ideal people that are gonna, and it's not cost you anything, right? Mm-hmm. So let's just go an outreach to them, get their email, give 'em a ring, LinkedIn, whatever. Um. That's free. It costs time. Whereas I think to grow your audience costs money.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: And you're like, yeah, but you are the one in a thousand.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Right. The other 999,

Sadaf Beynon: not too much.

Matt Edmundson: They're gonna have to spend

some money. Right. Yeah. And you can do the organic social, you can do the.

Reels, the short form video content and all the things that we know to do, and they're all good things. Um, but I think the reality is you're gonna have to put money behind it. Um, and I think at the moment, I think the current budget is like $5 per subscriber. Mm. So if you want 10,000 subscribers, you're gonna have to put 50 50 grand behind it.

Um, which may or may not make sense for your business, right? Mm-hmm. Whereas if you focus on guests, you're just gonna have to put a day behind that, right?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Um, and so we will start to build audience and we will start to put money behind it, um, and experiment with that. But I, that's then super top funnel mm-hmm.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, that makes sense. I think it's really exciting. All the new, um, directions that you're considering in exploring sounds. Yeah. Sounds good.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I'm really, I'm looking forward to it. Mm-hmm. Right. And seeing where it goes, um, and seeing the changes. I think it's gonna be fun. Um. It just stops you getting bored.

Yeah. Not that my guests are boring, uh, on any stretch of the imagination, but there's only so many conversations I can have about AI or, yeah.

It's

like, um, with eCommerce. Even with eCommerce, I know technology is always moving, but a lot of the topics end up being the same.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: And so I feel like I'm, you know, I, I don't need to have another conversation about influencer marketing for the next six months because I've had, yeah, two or three.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Um, and you don't hear anything. Do you know what I mean? So these things come in, sort of fits and starts.

Yeah. I think one triggers the other. It's like, oh, they wrong their show. Mm-hmm. They're one of my competitors. Maybe I can get on the show. Um, which I always find quite amusing, but it does stop me getting bored and I, I, I'm really psyched by the changes. Yeah. Um, I think it'll be, um, I think it'll be impactful, but I won't know from another 18 months.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm. That's right, another 18 months. Matt, this has been such fun having you back.

Matt Edmundson: It's always nice to be back. It's a shame we're not in the studio, but it's a bank holiday and I'm not coming in, so not me

Sadaf Beynon: either.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Let's film from the studio at home. Yes. Which is, uh, what you can't see actually, unless you're watching the video. Can you see this hear behind me?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. What is that? Nothing

Matt Edmundson: to do with podcasting. I just, I just want you to know I'm really chuffed with this.

Matt Edmundson: This, this is my homemade air conditioning unit.

Sadaf Beynon: Oh, nice.

Matt Edmundson: So I've got my Yeti cooler.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay.

Matt Edmundson: Uh, down there. And you put, is that the

Sadaf Beynon: green thing?

Matt Edmundson: That's the green thing, yeah. Yeah. And then your cooler, you just put loads of water, ice, you know, and ice and cool it down to like two degrees. You then pump the water with a little pump, cost me five bucks off Amazon.

Um, you pump that around that car radiator, which costs like a few quid. Um, and behind that is an old fan.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Which I've screwed to the. The, the, the timber frame structure there, which, you know, made out scrap wood.

Sadaf Beynon: Okay.

Matt Edmundson: And so the fan blows air through the radiator, which is frozen, um, by the, well it's frozen.

It's like two degrees, isn't it?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: The, and so you get like a DIY air conditioning unit. Whole thing cost me like 15 bucks.

Sadaf Beynon: Love it.

Matt Edmundson: And I'm like, this is genius. And it's working. '

Sadaf Beynon: cause you're sitting there in a hoodie.

Matt Edmundson: Well, yeah. And, and you're just, and you're just like, well, this is great. Uh, so I just, I'm just, I'm sharing that people's great.

And

Matt Edmundson: unlike me.

Sadaf Beynon: Guess you can't have competition.

Matt Edmundson: That's so true. No, I have a very nice sound desk. I have my road caster. You too. And it has a noise filter. Uh, on the road caster, I, they call 'em noise gates. Mm-hmm. It's one of the things with podcasting is you start to learn all this bizarre terminology. Your noise gate. Yes. My noise gate is set to 50 DB or whatever it is.

I don't even know. Uh, but it just filters out all those background noises. Yeah. Which is just, it's brilliant. It's cool. Absolutely brilliant. Yeah.

Sadaf Beynon: Matt, before we wrap up, where can people find you if they wanna learn more from you?

Matt Edmundson: Uh, well, am I still on the Pod Junction website? Have you just like totally removed me?

Sadaf Beynon: I think I might have totally removed you.

I wish I could buy the.com.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm. Um,

Matt Edmundson: eCommerce Podcast dot com That would be amazing. Yeah. But I've not managed to do it yet. Yeah, so don't go to.com. Um, go to eCommerce Podcast dot.

Sadaf Beynon: Net. Yeah. And you're also quite active on LinkedIn, aren't you?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I'm getting better at LinkedIn. Definitely getting better at it.

So yeah, if you want can find me on LinkedIn, um, just go to LinkedIn slash is it in linkedin.com/in/ Matt Edmundson? Um, I think that's what it is. Or just search from Edmundson and you'll on there.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Um, but yeah, I'm really active on LinkedIn. I'm trying to post every day. I do at least three or four times a week.

Mm-hmm. Um, and that in itself is another podcast. Um. You know how to make it on LinkedIn. I think, um, it's a really fascinating experiment in social media for business people and it's changed so much, even the last six months.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. It's always changing, isn't

Matt Edmundson: it? It is. I dunno what Microsoft's playing at.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: So

if you are, and if your ideal client profile is business people

Sadaf Beynon: mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Like with eCommerce Podcast, my ideal client profile or eCommerce founders, my experience, a lot of those people are not on LinkedIn.

Sadaf Beynon: Hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Um, some of them are, but most of them aren't. Um. So I can use LinkedIn as a strategy to go and connect with them to try and get 'em on the show.

Um, where LinkedIn works really well is if I want the experts.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Because they are definitely on LinkedIn. You know, you've got, um, I mean where I, I'm part of a little community. You've got people like Jimmy Kim, who's always emailed John Roman, who is the subscription battle box guy. He is just. He's just great.

Matt Edmundson: so you've got all these sort of people that you can definitely connect with on LinkedIn, uh, and build relationship with, which is, is kind of fun. And just as a freebie, do you like freebie? Should I give a freebie?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah,

Matt Edmundson: do it. Um, LinkedIn at the moment feels like it's not about what you post, it's about what you comment.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Um, and so I spend a, I've, I've historically spent a fair bit of time thinking about, well, what do I post? I mean, and, and trying to. Because I refuse, just to let I ai write a post and I, and it just gets posted automatically, that just drives me up the wall. Mm-hmm. Um, that's not credible. Um, doesn't mean to say I won't use AI to help me write the post.

Yeah. But a lot of thought goes into writing those posts. I dunno how long it takes you to do it, but it's at least 20 minutes. Yeah. I would've thought beginning to end by the time you've thought about it, written it, edited it, post, found a picture, posted it, blah, blah, blah. Mm-hmm. Commenting. So what we do is we post and then, and we comment just like love that hey, you know, just give it a thumbs up and all that sort of stuff.

He. Posts a lot about email marketing. So I know a lot of the people that follow his content are people in eCommerce. Yeah. They've become my ideal client profile. Mm-hmm. Right. Not all of them, but a chunk of them. And so what I can do is if I comment well on Jimmy's post, then all of his people that he's connected to on LinkedIn will see what I've done and then they, they come and they sort of connect with you and say, God, this guy's interesting.

He's written something interesting. Um, and so it's a bit of a shortcut to getting connected to your ideal client profile. Mm-hmm. Um, and every now and again, I, I'm obviously not gonna go into Jimmy's beat and go, well Jimmy, if you listen to the eCommerce Podcast.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Um. Yeah. But there's no reason why I couldn't go on there and say, Jimmy, this is great. You make a great point. Um, Fred Flintstone who came on

Sadaf Beynon: Mm,

Matt Edmundson: you know, I was talking to him and I can tag Fred Flintstone, you know, 'cause he's been on the show. He was talking about this, uh, on the show, and it's just like, this is, this is brilliant because of X, Y, and Z and, and you adding value.

Do you see what I mean?

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: That was my freebie.

Sadaf Beynon: No, I like it. That's good. Um, Matt Halloran talked about, um, not posting and ghosting.

Matt Edmundson: I love that phrase. Yeah. It was ghost don't, don't Ghost and Ghost. Ghost.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. And I, I've, I've, um, I've been trying, not trying to be better at not posting and ghosting, but I think it feeds into what you're saying.

You're. Post something and if, and just stick around until someone you know responds and respond to it right away. Mm-hmm. Or share it out with somebody else. Don't just leave it and go on your merry way.

Yeah. LinkedIn obviously want you on their platform, which is why I wouldn't use automated, um, scheduling tools, you know? Yeah. With LinkedIn, I'd post it from your computer.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Um, and then like you say, stick around. It doesn't mean you just stand there staring at the screen. No. Um, but everybody's got dual monitors these days, so you just put it on one of your monitors and you just monitor it.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Um. And if you've not got dual monitors, what's wrong with you? Go and get another monitor. Geez. Apparently dual monitors, I discovered this the other day, increases productivity by around 37%.

Sadaf Beynon: Oh, absolutely, it does. Yeah, totally.

Matt Edmundson: Which

is mental when you think about the, the, the quantum leap.

Sadaf Beynon: Mm-hmm.

Matt Edmundson: Um.

So, yeah, I'm like, let's just dual monitor up baby. I just need, I've got three, I used to have four. Yeah. And I've got, I've, I, I've run outta space, so I, I needed to take one of them down, but I, I, I, I think it is, why would you not, right? Yeah. You just put LinkedIn on one of them.

Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, totally. Cool.

Matt Edmundson: Totally.

Sadaf Beynon: Yes, I do. Wait,

Matt Edmundson: the one where he gets caught in the rib? Totally. Gimme some nagging dude.

Sadaf Beynon: Anyway, moving on. No, but if you're listening, you'll find all those links in the show description. And, um, if you've been curious about using podcasting as a, as a strategic tool for your own business growth, I hope this episode has given you plenty of inspiration.