In this episode of The One Small Change Podcast, Laura Berman Fortgang sits down with Yvonne McCoy to share her journey from dealing with a three-year depression in her 20s to becoming a pioneer in the coaching industry. Laura Berman Fortgang reveals how tapping into her intuition and embracing her individuality became the foundation for her entrepreneurial success—and outlines why developing a unique, repeatable system is the key to standing out. Together, they explore how self-doubt, fear of visibility, and resistance to personal branding can get in the way, and provide actionable insights for listeners to confidently step into their expertise and scale their businesses with authenticity.

Guest Bio:

Laura Berman Fortgang is a master coach, sought-after speaker, and one of the founders of the International Coaching Federation. With 32 years of coaching experience, she specializes in helping coaches, consultants, and entrepreneurs harness their intuition and build signature systems that make a genuine impact. Her advocacy for unique personal expression and her proven strategies for professional growth have helped countless business owners achieve clarity, confidence, and greater visibility.

Chapters:

00:00 Small Changes, Big Transformations

03:37 The Power of Intuition

09:25 "Authenticity in Entrepreneurship"

12:53 "Helping Others Through Connection"

16:24 "Discover Your Signature System"

18:52 "Systems Enhance Creativity and Coaching"

22:02 "$3 Scalp Massager Revelation"

24:23 Irreverent Humor as a Signature

27:37 "Holiday Creativity with Ornaments"

Quote from the Guest:

“You get to put your imprint on your business. And I just want— hope that listening to Yvonne and I today gives you permission to be more you.”

Link:

Connect with Laura Berman Fortgang: https://laurabermanfortgang.com/

Welcome to The One Small Change. I cannot believe another week has

gone by, and I am thrilled to be here again and

embark on this journey of exploration and transformation with you.

I'm your host, Yvonne McCoy, and I bring almost 30 years of

entrepreneurial experience, and I have a passion for

discovering growth through the power of seemingly small change.

And for me, this is an entrepreneurial journey that I want to

share with you, that we can explore options and be

inspired. And one of ways that I do that is bring to you

people that I think can help you grow your business. And this week

we are talking with Laura Berman Fortgang,

and I have to tell you, I met her years and years ago and

she absolutely changed my business. And Laura's going to

be explaining or sharing a smaller, insignificant,

um, change or decision that sparked a remarkable

transformation and growth in her life, both personally or

professionally. And it's what makes her really good at what she does

more than other people. She is the expert. So,

Laura, welcome. Thank you. Thank you.

So tell us what you do and why you're really good at

it. I, I, I have been a

coach for 32 years, so experience comes into

it. But I started when I was in my 20s, and I

coached people much older than me on, you know, at first it was life

coaching Then it was career advancement.

Then it's moved into entrepreneurial success. And

you know, this is going to sound kind of dramatic, but in my 20s, before

I discovered coaching, I had had a 3-year depression. I mean,

I guess you'd have to call it a nervous breakdown, except that I, you know,

was able to somehow hold down a job and keep my life moving.

And it was, you know, a horrible time

that I wouldn't wish on someone, and yet I would if you got the same

outcome I did. Like, on the other side of it, I found that I was

an intuitive person and I had a lot more compassion for all people because

everyone goes through something. And this led me on a path

of becoming a coach and becoming an entrepreneur. I had

been an actor. I learned, you know, through the hard way

about rejection. So going into an unknown field in the

1990s did not seem like a big burden to me. I was like,

I'd already been through the worst, right? So it was that

ability to just persevere

that has given me the ability to help other people get

over their obstacles. And I think that's part of what makes me good at what

I do. So I want to touch on something that you said

because I find it kind of interesting. I am

basically a Type A Type A behavior person.

I have softened around the edges a lot, and

I have finally come to the conclusion that I do

have an intuitive gene that I have never

used. And I find it interesting that you mentioned

that in yours, because I think that is probably one of the

biggest things that has been conditioned out of us as

entrepreneurs, is not to trust your gut, not to, not

to you know, trust yourself. All the training

is basically based on how to, how to follow the steps, how

to do the same thing. And so it basically makes you, you know,

mediocre. It makes you average. So I find it interesting

that that's one of the things that you're talking about, you know,

in so many ways. I mean, first of all, I didn't, you know, if I

go deeper into that origin story of mine, it was my intuition

on the other side of this depression that was like, call this old mentor

of yours, Laura, call this old mentor. And I was like, Felt like I was

going crazy. I listened to my intuition, I called the old mentor, he

had become a coach, he's the one who got me into this. So, if I

had not listened to that, I wouldn't have found my new path. Also,

intuition, I, you know, I'm very involved in the International Coaching

Federation as one of its founders, and that's the largest body that

gives credentialing to coaches, and we have ACC, PCC,

MCC. MCC is Master Coach, I'm a Master Coach. And I find the

biggest difference between a professional coach, the PCC, and a master

coach is their use of intuition. You know, how do you measure

that? Hard to measure, but it's, you know, trusting that

unseen thing that is exactly the right thing you needed

to say to that client or exactly the right question you needed to ask or

exactly the right business move they needed to take. And I can understand as a

Type A, Yvonne, because I'm a recovering perfectionist,

It's a lifelong journey of recovery. Yes. You know, you're

all— you, you go with the logic, you go with the left brain, you go

with what seems more sure. So it's hard to trust that right brain

side. But the thing I think that I'm learning,

or I have learned, is that

because I— one of the things I try to do so much for people

is get them out of that subjective

self-doubt and second-guessing into a way of

kind of changing that pattern into something a little bit more

objective. But when you are in that objective,

then I think your intuition gets even stronger because

you're not doubting yourself. I mean, I will be

talking with a client and they'll say something, and all of a sudden it's like,

oh my God, you need to do this. You know, and

you're like, where did that come from?

So yeah, so tell us more. Tell us what you, you know, what you do

with and for your clients. Sure. So I work with

other people coming up in my field. So I work with coaches and

consultants to help them find their unique

methodology to how to approach coaching because it helps them

be a category of one. It helps them really stand out in what is a

very crowded marketplace. So, but in essence,

I teach them the business side of the business. So many people come from corporate

and they think that, you know, because they ran a $55 million budget and had

100 people reporting to them, they know how to have their own business. And I

know, you know, that's not the case. So

helping— so I help business owners grow their impact,

visibility, and therefore be able to make more money. And,

you know, I've been at this for 30-some-odd years like yourself.

And you see the ups and downs, you see the trials and tribulations, but

you've got to like stay on the path. And, you know, we talk about

intuition or faith to, you know, having

the faith and trust that you're planting the right seeds as you go along,

you know, having the right guidance from people who've been there before you.

But it is a, it is a pretty interesting journey. Like it's

a, it's a lifestyle to be an entrepreneur.

And, and you say that and it makes me

think of, you know, my kids are like, Mom, you know, you got your own

business, you should be able to take off when you want to. And I go,

entrepreneur, being an entrepreneur gives you the permission to work,

you know, 60, 70. If you

don't put the systems and stuff in place. But you said a couple of things.

So one of them is that we both agree on

that we already touched on a little bit is that you want to be the

expert, not just— you want to be the coach, not just a

coach. Right. And that— and I think when people—

we are taught, particularly women, I think, not to

toot your own horn. And so it's really

hard to talk about yourself. Right.

And so knowing what makes you really good at what you

do makes that a lot easier. I mean, and

I find myself falling back into that trap. I was doing a post

about being yourself and hunting for a, you know, an

image. And I'm like, girl, you need to put your own picture out there.

You know? So that's one thing. And when you put

together your system or your signature talk that

highlights what makes you different,

not, you know, it's not something that you have to say necessarily, but the way

that you approach it means that your

right clients can identify and trust

you immediately. You say things that other

people, it makes no sense. Like, I have a client who's

been in the military, and we were putting together a

kind of an office hours for her. And trying to figure out a

name. And she said, well, the one thing everybody knows is the

commander's call, because that means you

need to be here. And I'm like, did

nothing for me. I was never in the military. Right,

right. But I mentioned it to somebody else who'd been in

the military, and they were like, yeah, I get it, right? I'll be there. I'll

be there for my commander's call. Right. And so that is,

you know, sometimes it's more that

than the actual

steps you go through that make your clients

trust you. So, you know, dig into that however you can.

Yeah, I mean, you said a couple of really valuable things there. I mean, one

is that, like when you're saying be yourself, it's about,

you know, you can express yourself through your business. That's the beauty of being an

entrepreneur. Is like, you know, I told you I was an actor and I went

through a 4 or 5 year period where I actually created a character that was

a life coach and I did a one-woman show and you would kind of come

to this show and get a self-help through

comedy kind of approach. So that was me putting myself

in there or your military person, you know, putting themself in there. Like

what you bring is unique, so use it. You know,

everyone tries to be homogenous and they try to fit in and they try

to, you know, cover all their bases when you're better

off narrowing it down to who you

really can help and really expressing yourself. So I

think that's one of the beauties of being an entrepreneur too, is you can color

your business in, in your own colors, you know what I mean? The

things that are you, and that'll lend credibility as well because

no one has said it just quite like you. It's so true. And,

and The other part to that, I mean, there's so

many threads here. I don't know. Yeah, there are layers. There are layers.

So I heard someone say that they had read a book. It was called The

Three Rules of Entrepreneurship. And the first rule was

you have to enjoy it enough. The Three Rules of Big

Sales or something. You have to enjoy it enough that you don't care

if you get paid. And the second rule is

you have to want to get paid more than

you want to have fun. And I think the first rule, which really caught my

attention, is if you— because of all the

ups and downs, I mean, entrepreneurship is not a straight line by any stretch of

the imagination, and you have to have resilience. So if

you're not enjoying it and it doesn't make you happy, you

will not put in the effort. You won't keep going,

right? So I think that's an important part. And I

think the other thing that we talked about— so keep going is

not necessarily doing more, it's focusing and

not going wider, but going deeper into what

it is that you do, which feels so

uncomfortable. So if you would like comment on that or tell me what you learned

about that. Yeah, I mean, you know, the thing that comes

to mind is that discomfort equals growth. You know, when you're uncomfortable, It's

because you're growing. And those, you know, those people who are

afraid to toot their own horn or put themselves out there, it's like you're being

asked to, you know, you have a unique

point of view, you have a unique take, and

you gotta ask yourself, what are you robbing people of if you don't put it

out there? You know, it's not so much that you're bragging

as much as you are offering a service that can

transform somebody else's life. You know, and it's also not

talking about yourself. It's being a walking, talking

example of what's possible. You know, really

walking the talk, especially if you're a service-based business. You want to walk the talk

of your product, which is you.

I just find it fascinating that, you know, people struggle with

visibility. Like, they don't, they don't want to put themselves out there.

And you know what, Who gains from that?

Nobody. Not your client, not you.

Well, you know, the thing that's really funny is,

you know, when I do my workshop, there's a

slide, and it happened by accident that I did this, but I love

it anyway. There's a slide, it has a lot of white balls and it has

a red ball like off to the side, right? And the

day that I put that slide in, I just accidentally wore a red shirt.

Right? So I was like, do you want to be found? See,

you found me, you know. So part of my quirkiness is my sense of

humor, right? And then at the end I go, you

know, when I put the, you know, send the email out, I go, be prepared

to be on camera because this is a workshop.

And at the end I go, if you're not willing to, you know, to talk

to me, how are you going to talk to a client? I mean, I'm not,

you know, I'm— you've spent time with me. Hopefully I've gained your

trust. Come talk to me because I want to help you with your business, right?

If you're afraid to come and talk to me,

how are you going to talk to somebody else? And so I think one of

the lessons tying this all back together is

if you are talking, if it's not

about you, I mean, that's where I think we get tripped up. Do you

know, if it's not about you, but it's about how you can

help somebody else, you are doing

them a disservice by not giving them

a solution that's going to save them time, energy,

money, their sanity. Do you know, I mean,

whatever their relationship, whatever, whatever it might

be. And you know, that's I think the first time, well, years ago that I

heard turning sales into service,

right? You are providing a service that your

right client absolutely needs and can only get

from you. Right. And they're robbed of it if we don't put it out

there. Yeah. Yeah. So that's how you have to look at it and that you're

not being selfish or full of yourself as much as you are

being you know, trying to help that other person have more of their self

come to the table. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah,

so it's, it's, it's an interesting— you know, I always say that

having your own business is the most advanced personal development

program. Like, you don't need another personal development program.

Like, just having a business will put you in the position to

constantly having to grow, to face your own demons,

to you know, gain better communication skills.

I mean, it just demands everything. It's part of what makes it

exciting and it's part of what makes it hard.

But, you know, so as we're talking, it comes to mind to call

it the gift of entrepreneurship. You know, it's like, it's a gift to yourself

and it's a gift to others when you can make something happen

for them. The other

thing that I think is really important is

we were talking about focus, and as

entrepreneurs, I think we're— we are curious. I've got a tickle, I'm

sorry. Yeah, sorry. Let me ask you a question.

Sure. And then I can— you can, you can cough on mute.

So we kind of touched a little bit about not going

after the— having the squirrel syndrome and

going deeper. Talk about that a little bit, if you would. Sure.

Um, I always say there's a method in your madness, you know, like the things

that, the things that you're attracted to doing, the things that you like, the

places where you get the best results with your client, like that's your secret

sauce, that's your special something or another.

So when you go deeper, you find that, you know, you

actually have a way of doing this with people. Like, a lot of people

who advise others in business are using their

intuition, are shooting from the hip. But if you study it for a while, you

might notice that there are certain patterns, there are certain,

you know, steps that you ask people to do all the time, there's certain advice

that you give them. So in there somewhere is your signature system.

And I'm always talking about the importance of a signature system because

it does lend tremendous credibility to you when you can say, you

know, I have this program or I have this way that is

proven. You know, hundreds of people have used it or dozens of people have used

it and we get the same result. So when it's repeatable,

it's also scalable. And that's—

Say that again because that is so important. When

it's repeatable, it's scalable. And what happens for

so many people who trade their hours for dollars is they don't think about scaling.

They think about just, you know, how do I have more clients? But when you

have a signature system, you can scale it. It can go online,

it can be a course, it can be a book, it could be a talk,

it could just turn into product upon product.

So having a signature system at the core of what you do

allows you to scale. And so I think the other

part, First of all, I absolutely agree because I know when I really started,

um, coaching people, I'd say, tell me the steps, tell me your process.

Oh, I don't have a process. I go, you do have a process. Every client

that you do, you do certain— do a certain order.

And so they're like, no, I don't. I go, well, if you don't do

everything in the same order, how— if it doesn't work, how do you know what

you missed or what you didn't do? And they're like,

well, I guess I do. I said, well, pretend I'm your client. Tell me what

you would do with me, you know. And we realize that typically, you know, what

I do is come up with a 5-step process roughly, right?

The process doesn't take away the customization

or the personalization. It frees you up so you

can do those things. Yeah, and that's what a lot of

people worry about. It's like, oh, if I have a system, I'm not free to

be creative, or it's not coaching anymore because I have,

you know, a curriculum. But it actually gives you a

structure to create from instead of a structure to be imprisoned

by. But it has a backbone and it

has, like you said, something to go back to and check if you're missing something

with somebody. And again, on the marketing side,

I mean, I just had a conversation with somebody who'd spoken to several coaches and

said, oh, you're the only one I've met that has system to get me to

where I want to go, you're my choice. Yeah. And, and I

think a couple of things happen.

Um, talking to you is making me so happy I'm crying now.

You're moved to tears. The first thing is,

if you have a system,

in the back of their minds, they're like, they've thought about this enough.

That they're not willy-nilly, right? People have to hear

things several times. They don't usually hear you just one

time and go, you're my person, right?

So it's like, oh, they're still doing that. They're still, you

know, it kind of gives you authority because you are

doing the same thing. That's how you build an

expertise, is you, you know, you do something that's

repeatable that keeps proving to have results, and people you know, see you

as an expert. And, and you're rememberable, you know.

Hopefully your system has a, you know, mine is Be Found.

Um, and, you know, and I have to be honest, it came by accident.

Um, the first part, it was like I was at a networking thing and, and

something happened, and I said, you know, you don't need to be fixed, you need

to be found. And everybody in the room went, oh,

I'm like, this is it, this is what I've been working on.

So having that system lets you go deeper.

I totally get it. It does. It lets you go— it

gives you like the blueprint, and then you can

build up on it. You can go on subterranean with it. You can go

laterally with it. It gives you more to look at. And the

same thing is true with The workshop. When I first

did my— said I'm gonna do a monthly workshop and I have to do the

same workshop, I was like, this

is gonna be the most boring thing ever.

I'm gonna be bored, people are gonna be bored, you know.

But what I find is the

audience makes the workshop different, makes the whole tone of the workshop different.

Whenever I give it. You know, sometimes people

are really engaged, sometimes they're not.

The other thing is you collect bells and whistles to go

with your workshop as you do it. I mean,

one of the things that people seem to struggle with is the whole idea of

thinking that they're unique. And so when I first

did my workshop, I did a story about

how I bought this scalp massager

so that I had enough stuff in my cart to get free shipping.

And I have curly hair, so I use that, and it's

also thinning, so it kind of spreads the curls out over the thin spots.

So when it came, I just threw it in a drawer because I already had

some. But one day I decided to take it

out, and oh my God, it was totally different than every other

this $3 item, the little nubs on

them were different heights and different densities.

I lost my mind. I mean, and, you know,

so the story was, if I can get this excited

over a $3 item for my hair, if

you're solving somebody's life problem, imagine how

excited they would be. So that's kind of where I

first started. And then further down the road, I did a story about

if you don't think you're unique, think about ice. You can get

ice in all different forms. You're not the ice,

you're the delivery system for the ice. You're, you

know, an ice cube. You're an ice cube maker. You're a, you know, whatever the

case may be. And so you find ways to make it interesting

and go deeper as you start to see what

resistance there is to your message so that you can

address that, do you know, and

address it in a way that your right people are gonna, are

gonna connect with it. Yeah, it helps you

have something to measure against as well, you know.

So let's see. Oh, let's do this before

we run out of time because we are— I'm having so much fun here.

Aside from coughing and thinking I'm gonna die,

talk about your free gift. Sure, yes, I have brought for

you folks that are listening or watching

a download called How to Create Your Signature System

That Sells. So we'll help you, you know,

figure out how do you find your system within yourself and

just follow the steps and you'll get started.

That's fantastic. And one of the things I would add to that is your

personality is part of your signature, you know,

signature system. Yeah, thank you. So mine

happens to be kind of irreverent humor. You know,

if I can't make you laugh, you know, or you don't laugh at what I

say, you probably are not the kind of person that I want to work with

because, because I, a long time ago,

I had someone say, my therapist actually,

when I was going through my major depression,

you know, I went on like a 24-hour crying jag

that I went to sleep crying, I woke up crying, whatever. And

she said to me, your pain is normal.

And I said, if this is normal, I would hate to see what crazy is.

So, so, you know, I have this weird sense of humor. So if you

know, so talk about enough about me. Talk about

3 things that our audience can do

that will, because I want people to get into action. I don't want

them to keep preparing. I want them to know, first of all,

things change constantly and you have to be relevant for right now.

Right. You know, and be able to, you know, see where things

are going. What are 3 things that you think are really important

that people need to make sure they're doing now? Yeah, and

especially if we put this in the context of having a signature system. One is,

you know, what is the pain that you're solving? You've got to really look at

like, know what is the result that you create? What is the pain that you're

solving? Second, what are your tenets? Like, what are you, you know, all the

time you've had observing people or having time in your field as an

expert, What are the things that you hold to be true and that you believe

can happen for people? And then finally,

you know, interview the people around you, like, you know,

get testimonials, get people talking about what you've done and help

yourself see yourself through other people's results.

So, there's 3 actions people can take right away to

start on the path. And the thing is,

I think the

answer that you get today

may be a little bit different, but it's not different, it's

clear. Maybe that's what I'm saying, is that it's like peeling back the layers

of the onion. It's going to evolve, and, you know, the first

version of anything that you do is going to be tested, and it's going to,

it's going to evolve, you know, just like your workshop, as you were talking about,

you know, it evolves with who's there, it evolves with a new piece of news

or something that happens. And the other part is

you're going to evolve and you're going to get

more confident. And when you're more confident, I think

your actions are more consistent, and so your results are more consistent.

Well said. Yes. I hate to do this,

but it's time for us to, to

wind it up. And so before I do that,

I want to ask you, when was the last time you did something new for

the first time? When was the last time

I did something new for the first time?

I know, I know there's one recently, but what—

let's see, in the— during the holiday season. During the holiday season,

I just, you know, I, I get these

bursts of creativity, and I decide I want to try new crafts, like things

I've never done, you know, and I'll invest in them.

Um, and so I went on a— I went on a creative slew during the

holiday season and started making people crochet ornaments.

Not that I never crocheted before, but I never made ornaments. I'd never

been so crafty. All my neighbors are like, you have a tree? Here's my ornament.

Here, take an ornament. But you enjoyed it, right? I loved

every minute of it. I didn't even care if people liked the result. I loved

every minute of it. So I, I mean, I am one to— my friends will

tell you, like, every, every few months there's something new that catches

my attention. And, you know, my squirrely syndrome is not in my business. My

squirrely syndrome's in my life and in my hobbies, and that's not such a bad

thing. Well, I like that. I like that. Okay guys,

to wind this up, I gotta give you the commercial.

So I want to make sure that you subscribe, share, and engage with

on social media, media about

the podcast. And the reason that I do it is I want to

give you a way to supercharge your business

through connections. I want to introduce you to people that are in my

world that have made a difference for me. And, you know, their ideas

are going to help you to grow your business. And that way

It's going to help you fuel your quest for growth and impact. So I

want you to continue to join me on the One Small Change and, you

know, do some shifts, do some— stay curious, look at what

you're doing. And if you haven't seen any of the first episode or any

of my individual episodes, the clarity check-in, you might want to do that

as well. So, Laura, what's your last words of

wisdom? What do you want us to remember and, you know, take away with us?

You get to put your imprint on your business. And

I just want— hope that listening to Yvonne and I today gives you

permission to be more you. I love

it. I love it. Okay, guys, this is it.

Remember, change is simple, but it's not always easy. It

requires courage, resilience, and a willingness to step

outside your comfort zone. So I want you to do that. I want you to

know if you're uncomfortable or if you're not uncomfortable, you need to do a little

more. If you are uncomfortable, you're probably going in the right direction.

So I hope you will continue to join us as we keep doing the One

Small Change podcast. And I hope your vision gets

bolder and your possibilities become more innovative. Until

next time, please stay very, very curious. Thank

you. Laura, thank you so much for giving us your time today. I

really appreciate it. Bye.