Getting married? Important topics to cover during the engagement phase!

• So you both need to have some idea goals wise of what direction that you're going in. (07:45)
• Going deeper into that about how you're looking at your finances, when you guys are, you know, starting on your journey to have a life together, you're one family, and you know, having one family, it's important to look at things and goals jointly because they are joint. (12:59)
• You know there are things that money has touched already in your life, that if you have discussions on like, why you wound up where you are with some of those things, you can start to piece together a little bit of what their baseline personality might be when it comes to money. (18:19)
• ...when you're young, the most important thing is just make sure that you're saving some part towards yourself. (22:47)
• And one of the biggest mistakes that they make is not having enough protection for themselves. (41:30)

Quote of the episode: "...wherever you are right now you're starting off in your life, just forgive yourself for anything you may not know, you're not uncommon, you know, most people were not taught anything. So what you can do today, wherever you may be, is take that step forward." (43:07)

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Welcome to the Enjoy More 30s Family Finance

podcast. The only podcast dedicated to making life more

enjoyable for young families by hitting on the financial topics

that tend to weigh on us, stress us out, and distract our focus

from simply enjoying life.

Hello and welcome to the Enjoy More 30s Family

Finance podcast. We have a really cool episode for you

today as we transition between seasons. And this is actually a

recording of a guest spot that I did on The Wedding Chaplain

podcast with David Anderson. This is a really, really cool

episode as nobody really thinks about finances going all the way

back to the engagement phase. But this is where you have the

opportunity to really set and align the goals that you may

have with the person that you want to spend the rest of your

life with. So check it out, as well as if you know anybody who

is engaged, anybody's getting married. The Wedding Chaplain

podcast is a really really unique offering out there. So

you can check that out as well with David Anderson. Hope you

enjoy and I'll talk to you soon.

Well, I am so excited today to have a

wonderful guest on the wedding Chaplain podcast. His name is

Joe Okaly. And, Joe, thank you so much for being with us today.

Yeah, absolutely. David, as we kind of shared with

you beforehand, before we got recording here. I'm really,

really excited to talk to you today about what you've kind of

touched on. So yeah, thank you very much for having me.

You're very welcome. Joe has his own

podcast. And you may be actually listening to this on his

platform, he has the Enjoy More 30s Family Finance podcast. So

whether you're listening to this on The Wedding Chaplain podcast

or his podcast, we were just so thankful for you tuning in

today. And whether you're a listener to me or not, I'm a

wedding minister. And I reached out to Joe, for one specific

area, it is the area of finances in engaged couples. We deal with

a lot of engaged couples and our conversations with those couples

usually are somewhere in the area of 9, 10, 12 months,

sometimes longer. But it is always an interesting

conversation when I bring up the area of finances to these

couples who are preparing for marriage. And many times it's

not the thing that they've thought about. They might have a

budget for their wedding, they might have thought about what

they're going to do with their finances after the wedding. But

overall, it usually looks like a good topic that needs to be

discussed with these folks. So Joe, that is why you are here

today. So tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do,

and all of that.

Sure, absolutely. So I've been an advisor now

going on 15 years. I interned at New Horizons where I am now in

college. And I've been here ever since. So this is this is what

I've been trained to do for a long time here. And basically,

you know why I think today's discussion is so fantastic, is

because what I found as I grew in my career, and I learned

these things to help our clients to help themselves with their

money and their finances, and their planning and all this

stuff that became second nature to me is that nobody else really

gets this information, especially people that are

younger. So you know, you go to school, you learn Shakespeare

and algebra, but then you you get a job and you have money to

manage and all this kind of stuff. And nobody really gave

you any training. So you know, I love working specifically with

younger people, because I know how much I can help them from an

early age get on the right path. And so when you get in the early

path from the right age, it just makes a life a lot more

enjoyable, a lot easier to manage. So, you know, I've been

married now this is a will be like 10 years, 10 years in, in

July here with my wife Lauren, and we have two fantastic kids,

five year old Avery and two year old Noah. So I'm on the same

journey as a lot of people are getting ready to take here who

might be listening to this. And so again, I'm happy to share

some information because you're absolutely right, David, the

financial part of it is something that is unfortunately

overlooked too many times.

Right. Well, let's start start with we'll

start with the good stuff. First. Start with your your

marriage. He's been married 10 years. Do you remember where

like how you propose your wife? You remember how that story

went?

Yeah, yeah. So my wife and I are both really big

Disney people. And so I wound up actually meeting my wife

freshman year of college back in 2004. So I've known my wife for

quite a long time, even though we've been married for 10 years,

but this year, I'll also know her for half of my life. So it's

a it's a substantial year here and so we're big Disney people

and we took my wife convinced me to take a vacation to Disney

before we had kids. Which at the time I thought was just

craziness that didn't make any sense to me. But she, of course

is 100% right as she's been many times over these last 10 years.

And so we went down to Disney and I had my my sister came down

as well with her friend and I had her kind of smuggle the

engagement ring down. And then instead of doing in the park,

what I decided to do is at the character breakfast, breakfast,

so Pluto came out after breakfast with with an

engagement ring on a special platter that he opened up and

then I, you know, got down on one knee and proposed proposed

there. So it was a it was a little bit a little bit

different than your your typical, I would say Disney

Disney proposal. And, but it was a lot of fun.

No, that's a great story. That's a very cool

story. So did she know that was coming? You have an idea that

was coming?

No. So actually, the whole breakfast I would I

couldn't eat because I was so nervous about just doing it. And

so she's, you know, berating me through breakfast of like, "Why

aren't you eating, you're gonna be hungry the whole day, like

you gotta". And I'm like, just hold on, hold on. It's common.

It's common. So.

So you had no idea when Pluto was going to

show up, he was just going to be random, or you kind of had an

idea.

I planned it all out ahead of time. So I had

talked to the, the, the manager of the restaurant and, and all

that kind of stuff ahead of time. So we, you know, I chose

Pluto out of out of who was going to be there that day, and

so on. So yeah, it was a lot of planning a fair amount of

stress, but it ended in a memorable moment. So I think I

think I wanted to do it the same way again.

Very cool. So that, um, that's a beautiful

little fairy tale story. But taking you back a little bit.

Did you? Did you remember in your engagement season talking

about money? Like how do you remember that? Or was this

something that sort of evolved later once you were married?

Like, what what kind of money discussions did you guys have in

your early relationship days?

Yeah, so I think when people first start out, and

they're just dating, obviously, everything is completely

separate, there's really no overlap at all. And then when

you get engaged, and you have to start planning a wedding and

money is part of planning a wedding, now you start kind of

doing some of a crossover. And even for me, when we started

out, you know, I was also starting out with with my job

more or less still. So there wasn't, you know, there wasn't

as much detail, I guess, as, as it, you know, grew to later on,

but the important things kind of ahead of time were that you

start having those discussions. So, you know, like, you know,

when Lewis and Clark, they knew they both want to be explorers

and go across the country. But if one wanted to go to Texas and

one want to go up to you know, what would be Washington State,

those are two different things. So you're both you need to have

some idea goals wise of what direction that we're that you're

going in. And finances is a part of that. So like when Lauren and

I had discussions during engagements, or during our

engagement time, it was, you know, where do we want to live?

And, you know, do we want a family? And, you know, what kind

of house do you see yourself in and, you know, so you have to,

you have to have, in my opinion, some of those conversations

directionally in the engagement phase, so that you can start,

you know, getting a good idea of okay, are we both want to get

married, but we do we want to get married in the same way. And

you'll go on the adventure in the same exact direction, kind

of a deal.

Right? And that is listen that that idea of

goals, I think that's probably the most important part, because

a lot of times when I when I have the discussion about

finances, and I tell all of my couples upfront, I am not Joe

Okaly. I am not a financial planner. They you know, I send

them to, you know, go get a book on this or talk to somebody, I'm

more interested, I guess in the emotional side of it. What did

your parents do? Your family of origin? How did they handle

money? Did they fight over money, all those? So? So that's

where I sort of land with him. But what is interesting in what

you just said, was that idea of goals. And oftentimes when I'm

talking to couples about money, it's not really a goal

conversation. It is a now conversation, like, we pay for

the mortgage. And so right now, he puts in, she puts in, we pay

for the car he puts in he put you know, it's the "How are you

paying the bills today?" Talk me a little bit more about that

idea of goals. What's the difference between today

financial idea and a goal centered financial idea?

Yeah, so some of the some of those things overlap

to some degree, like what you were saying because, you know,

when you talk about, okay, who's paying the mortgage, or you

know, how much are they saving, like any goal that you have

usually requires some kind of financial aspect. So if it's a

couple that doesn't have a home yet, but that wants to buy one,

what their credit scores are, are kind of important for that.

How much extra cash flow they have right now is kind of

important to that. If they want to, you know, go on vacations or

they want to live in a bigger house down the road. You know,

you need cash flow that supports some degree of savings still,

you know. So budgeting and bill payment, these are things that

kind of tie into those longer term goals, because you're

right, you know, it's like, what are you doing right now? But

also now the goal, say, Okay, this is what I want to do in the

future, and is what am I doing right? What I'm doing right now

will that be able to adapt to allow me to do some of those

things in the future. So, you know, we've come across, I mean

money, whether you're engaged, or whether you've been married

for 10 years, it can be one of the biggest drivers of

relationship stress. And so the earlier that you can try to

address it and talk about it. Money has been this like big

taboo thing in our society where it's like not proper to talk to

people about money. And that's the the way that you, you kind

of stay in the dark about you got to talk about it, you have

to ask questions, in my opinion, and get some of that clarity. So

I mean, we've heard of people engaged, where all of a sudden

they find out their partner, you know, has a bunch of credit card

debt, and you know, a terrible credit score, and they could see

like, hey, you know, this person may not be able to do the things

that I want to do with the person I marry in my life kind

of a deal. So, you know, it's really important to align those

goals and then start talking about finances. And in my

opinion, at least, to make those finances kind of as joint as

possible as you start progressing into, you know,

married life.

Okay, so your it sounds like you're an advocate

for joint accounts. I hear. I hear from both sides. I hear a

lot of folks who they keep it very separate. And, and I always

pressed them, I pressed them on this was like, okay, when are

you like, the day after the wedding, a month after the

wedding, a year after the wedding? When when do you guys

plan on going joint? And many times, they're sort of like,

well, I don't know if we are going to go joint. So talk to me

about that. What's what is the importance of joint versus

keeping things separate?

Sure. And so the, the first point I'll go over is

just account type in general. So you can have, you know, my

accounts vs your accounts, but make sure they're all joint

accounts. So they should all technically be joint bank

accounts. So like for myself, I use one bank, primarily, my wife

uses another bank, primarily, we look at everything jointly. But

you know, she looks at those as kind of, you know, the ones

accounts she would go to first. I have mine that I would go to

first kind of a deal. But all of the accounts have both of our

names on it. So if you don't have joint accounts, then God

forbid, let's say you're in the hospital and you can't, you

know, get money out of your account. You can't walk in and

say "Oh, I'm I'm their spouse, give me some of their money."

They will go by whoever's name is on that account. So even if

you do choose to be more separate with your finances, I

would highly, highly recommend that you make sure the

registrations on those accounts are joint so that your spouse

would get into the account in case of emergency. So I'd say

off the off the bat, that would be the first the first item when

you look at it from an account type standpoint. Going deeper

into that about how you're looking at your finances, when

you guys are, you know, starting on your journey to be you know,

to have a life together, you're one family, and you know, having

one family, it's important to to look at things and goals jointly

because they are joint. So like when you get to retirement, if

like one of you saved enough and the other one didn't, you're not

going to be like alright, well, you know, I'm going to retire

now and good luck to you. It's like you retired together, you

send your school kids to school together. And you're what we've

seen happen at times is when you start when you're young, and

it's like okay, well, I'm handling the mortgage and the

utility bill and you're handling the groceries and this, you

know, the car loans, if one person has the, careers change,

maybe one person isn't able to, you know, pay the mortgage as

well. And now they start taking on some credit card debt,

because that's their, their situation, their side of things.

But at the end of the day, if one person has credit card debt,

everybody has credit card debt, that's why that's holding back

the family. Or you know, if one person has a work plan that

allows for matching, and it would be great to take advantage

of that kind of thing, but they don't have the cash flow to do

that because technically, oh, I'm supposed to do the mortgage,

you know, that kind of stuff. If you're not looking at it jointly

then you're not taking advantage of all the potential

opportunities. You don't see cumulatively as well where you

guys are going and you avoid some of those pitfalls like I

said, where if one person is going to you know take on credit

card debt or something like that if they wind up not being able

to manage their situation or you know, their half of the bill so

to speak. So in my mind you know, as joint as possible,

obviously, we don't push people you have to be joint or we're

not going to work with you kind of thing, but in our opinion,

you know, you should have you should be having everything as

as joint together and looking at it jointly together. It's it's,

you know, it's your joint situation kind of thing your

joint life together.

Right. What's also to me when we have our we

have our conversations, I mean, money is not a sexy topic. I

mean, it's just not when we talk to couples, you know, how did

you guys meet and you know those those beautiful stories tell me

about your family. What do you like about each other? And it

it's, it's great that you guys have things in common. You both

have the same Marvel movie who superhero in common. Okay. Money

is really, you know, we don't we don't fight, we don't have

conflict, we have so much in common. We were just connected

on all these levels and what I what I tell people like you're

not married till there's money, okay until there's money

involved. Money tells you that you're married. The model we use

frequently is the idea of a business. If two businesses

merge, they're not merged until there's money involved. And

there's we can be associates, we can be whatever, but if you're

partners, that means we are in the pot together. So when should

you start this discussion? Okay, maybe first date might be too

early, like, "Hey, you're cute. And what's your credit score?"

When when should you start having some of those

discussions?

Yeah. First date? It's cute. Yes, I would say you

know, it's just, when you when you start getting serious, in my

opinion, like, for me, like when I thought like, oh, I would like

to propose to my wife, and you know, marry her, I was doing

that, because I already knew, like, I knew that she wanted

kids and I wanted kids. And so some of that stuff. So a lot of

the again, going back to the goals piece of it like that can

really tie into to helping with the money part. So you don't

have to necessarily be like, Hey, what's your credit score,

you know, from day one. But if you know what things that you

guys are wanting to do, and not just like the Marvel movie

today, we don't fight today is kind of your saying, but like,

what do we want to do five years from now? 10 years from now?

What direction do we want to really be going into? You know

the money, it really ties into that a lot? So, you know,

certainly as you as you get into being engaged and whatnot, it's

kind of a good opportunity, because it's like, you know,

well, how much do you have in your bank account, Hon? How much

do I have in my bank account, because like, these are the

things that we need to be, you know, using to maybe help pay

for this wedding. So I think the engagement can be a good opening

of a door to have to have more of a sight directly into what

they have. But before I would even get engaged with someone

again, I want their you know, this have some idea longer term

on the on the goals, and that can kind of tell you something

about what direction you're heading in. I think another

thing you could talk about is, you know, stuff like, oh, you

know, did your parents help you out paying for college? Did you

do that on your own or like you there's things like that, that

you can bring up in conversation as well. So like, for myself,

personally, like my, my mom paid for, you know, part of my

schooling and I took on the other half of loans. For my

wife, she was fortunate enough where her parents took on that.

But those are kind of things where it's not like, Hey, what's

your credit score? Like what's your bank account number? It's

kind of like, how do you how did your family teach you to

approach money? Do they teach you just to take out a bunch of

loans? And who cares? Did they teach you like, you know, try to

minimize that thing? You know, why did you go to that school?

Did you go to it because you got the most financial aid for that

school? Did you do it just because you like the campus the

most like. You know there are things that money has touched

already in your life, that if you have discussions on like,

why you wound up where you are with some of those things, you

can start to piece together a little bit of what their

baseline personality might be when it comes to money.

And then you also determine their values as

well. I mean, there's, there's all you know, there's no,

there's not really a good or bad, but you should make sure

you're on the same page, what you lease a car versus buying a

car. You buy a car every three years, or you drive it til it

dies. Those are values, those are values behind that, again,

there's not necessarily are good or bad. But you also want to

make sure like, hey, if I am I'm driving this beater til it's

300,000 miles, and you want a new car every three years.

Again, that's not good or bad. I certainly have an opinion on it.

But like, you want to make sure like, Hey, we're on this, we're

on the same page. So...

That's a great example to with the car because

it could be something like, oh, you know, you did you buy or

lease your car? Or I leased it? Oh, you know, how did you come

up with how much you could afford for that? Like, I don't,

you know, how did you kind of come up with that kind of

equation? Like how did you know? And now you get them talking

again? And you could hear like, Well, I I don't know I just I

just you know what saw it on the lot and I liked it. So you know,

I bought it. And again now you're starting to establish a

little bit of a mentality because if that's how they

approach car buying, that's probably going to have you know

be how they approach some other things in life as well. So I

think that's a cool example that you could use as well.

Right? Say, you know, how much do you save? Do

you like to save? Did did you start working as a teenager?

Would you do with money made you know? You can get around it What

do you do when you start seeing red flags? I guess if you're

dating, you just kind of break up. But hey, we're engaged, and

I'm starting to see red flags. What? How do you handle that?

That might be a better question for you, because

that works a lot in the emotional realm. I mean, from a

dollars and cents standpoint, if you see a bunch of red flags, I

mean, money is like number one or two on the list of most

studies for reasons that you know, stress is in a

relationship. So if if money looks like it's gonna be kind of

a bombshell, if you're, if you're approaching it without

emotion, it's probably something that could be a problematic

relationship, but I'll leave the rest of that answer to you.

Well, no. Yeah, I probably set myself up for

that. I mean, there's probably you mean, this thought, you

know, people, it's hard to change people. Like, if you're a

saver, you're a saver. If you're a spender, you're a spender.

It's very hard to turn a spender into a saver you can, you got to

sort of you got to really work with those folks. But I think

that's, you know, so we do a tool called SYMBIS. It stands

for Saving Your Marriage Before It Starts. It's like an

assessment that they ask us questions, and they get a

report. There's a whole there's a whole thing on on money. And

it's it's not a financial breakdown. It does ask you, you

know, how much you know, are you bringing zero debt, some debt,

significant amounts, it doesn't give $1 number. But it also, it

will ask you, are you a saver or a spender? It will ask you if

you if you make a budget, are you a budgeter? Yes, I live by

it religiously. I started it, but I don't do it or budget,

what does that mean? And they have these sort of choices. But

the other things they're sort of asking to like, what is your

what are your financial fears, and that's the stuff I'm

interested in. You know, there is the I want to be recognized.

I want to have influence. I want to have security. Those are

fears, those are your emotional things, all all money issues

have emotional issues, underneath and that you have to

uncover. So those are the things that that I'm after. And if you

start to see it, that's one of the things I have had some

folks, they get to that page, and they just sort of kind of

see it. And I really hope they haven't seen it for the first

time sometimes they do. But you do have to sort of talk through

like, this won't go away. It's not going it's not going to

necessarily change. How do you introduce budgeting to a couple

that's not really doing that? Like, like, hey, help me with

this whole budgeting thing? Like, how do you how do you sort

of start that conversation with them?

Yeah, I mean, when you're young, the most important

thing is just make sure that you're saving some part towards

yourself. Because when you start at an early age, so when I went

back to my high school to do a presentation to try to help kind

of establish this point for high school students. But in the

example, it was like a 22 year old versus a 23 year old and the

22 year old and the 23 year old both start to save $200 a month,

but the 22 year old, because they saved for one extra year at

retirement, you know, 40 years later, that extra $200 a month

for one year, came out to like an extra $200,000. So the power

of money over time is just it's incredible, because it just

keeps growing and building off of itself. In that example, one

person didn't save an extra $2,400, they saved an extra

$2,400, which grew for 40 years. So it's a really, really

powerful component. So when young couples first come out,

there's a lot of stuff that you want to spend money on. And I I

totally get that you want the house you want the new

furniture, car, whatever it might be. I would just the

biggest thing is, you know, don't spend more than you make

in general. And make sure that you pay yourself just a little

bit more like, if I'm going to save $200 a month, you know

what, let me try to push it to $300 a month. So really just try

to make sure that you pay yourself something and just push

that number a little bit. You don't have to, it doesn't have

to be like $1,000 a month or anything like that. But I

promise you, you know, those those little extra amounts that

you save now are really going to grow to you know, potentially

something very substantial down the road.

Right. I think one of the things I run into

more, and I've been doing weddings for close to 25 years.

But I'm still I'm 48 So I'm not you know, I don't want to talk

like the olden days. But one of the things that I have noticed I

pastor a church and I've got some older couples who they've

been married for 40, 50, 60 years. And I think the thing

that has struck me the most is there is really no idea or no

strong idea about starting off. Okay, and you'll hear these

older couples who say yeah, when we started off, we had a small

apartment, we had a we my aunt's ugly couch, and we had borrowed

furniture and there was a there was a tradition or your family

members gave you furniture and you eventually grew out of that,

or eventually got your second home or whatever you went from

renting to buying, things like that. The thing that is is very

striking now, there is no starting off, it's, we're gonna

get it all now. Like he's gonna get it all now. And it's

whatever the credit limit sort of set you at, or whatever I can

afford, as a payment, I, hey, we could afford that payment, we

could we need new furniture, we could afford 100 and whatever

dollars for payment, that kind of thing. How do you sort of

speak to that kind of stuff?

Well, first off, I mean, I think that's a great

point overall. And the the first part of that, I would say is

when you're going to buy a house, that's usually the thing

that people get stuck in the most. And I, to this point, 15

years in, I don't think I've ever seen an approved mortgage

limit that I would actually say somebody could afford. You might

be able to afford that if that's the only thing that you do, you

don't go on vacations, you don't really have a you know, you

don't save toward yourself. If you want to just work so that

you can pay the mortgage, that's kind of how the the upper limit

of what they say, "hey, we'll give you a loan for" tends to

come out from what I've seen. So the in that in that realm, I

would definitely say, no matter what they say, they'll give you

a loan for, it's probably more than you can afford, if you

really want to be able to like save money towards yourself and

do other things to grow into a good financial situation. So

definitely take kind of a cut off the top of that. And you

know, set a goal to you know, ideally, at a minimum, you want

to save, you know, let's say 10% of your income towards yourself.

So even if it's not from day one, but let's say you make

$100,000, that's roughly $10,000 per year. That should be the

goal of what you should kind of get to as a minimum. So maybe

you're one it doesn't happen, because you're buying new

furniture, you know, your two didn't happen, because you had

to save up money for the house. But that should be kind of the

target, like, I want to save at least something towards myself

from day one, but I want to work up to maybe say 10% of what I'm

making, that'll get you into a really good spot more likely

than not, especially when you have that mentality, you know,

when you're young. And, you know, to your point, David with

with your examples, all of those people that were taking, you

know, loan furniture and a little apartment and things like

that, they were probably doing that because they couldn't spend

more than they were making. They would not do it, credit cards

probably weren't available, right, you know, back then

potentially do what you can do now. And that's really the the

first part of it, that they they did not spend more than they

make. And then they made sure that they start to put some

money away towards themselves when they could.

That's the key, that is the key "spend less than

you make". I mean, it sounds so basic. And it is like, you know,

I don't know how to you just stamp it on the forehead

sometimes. So one of the things that happens a lot in engaged

I'm in North Jersey, so yeah, big weddings are kind of a big

couples, or sometimes leading up to a wedding, or wedding day, or

the days after. You could find yourself from family or friends,

you could find yourself with a windfall. I mean, you can find

yourself now there's usually a lot of money that has been put

into the wedding. Right, I have seen some tremendous weddings.

Listen, it's the fun of my weekend to go to this wonderful

event. I stand back sometimes that I look at like, wow, they

spent 45, 30, 50, 75,000 on this event. And that kind of makes my

head shake a little bit.

thing.

So I love to go and I will certainly eat your your steak

and kebabs there. I mean, it's it's great. I'll enjoy it. But

coming out of that you could end up with 5, 10, 15, $20,000 maybe

a grandparent gives you something more. How do I

approach that? Like we're just newly married and I'm flushed

with cash I've just gotten pockets full of of money, what

what is your approach to that?

So my biggest piece of advice when it comes to

that would be to be intentional with it. So a lot of people

might take that money and just throw it in their bank account.

And all of a sudden, you know, they look at it six months

later, and somehow it's you know, it's disappeared. They're

not quite sure where, where it may have gone to but it's it's

really not there anymore. And this is the same approach that

we use for our clients that might get a bonus or tax refund

is to plan ahead of time and say, Hey, you're going to get

$10,000 back or you're going to get this $10,000 bonus. What do

you want to do with it? Let's plan ahead of time. And now you

can make sure that it does what you actually want it to do. It

doesn't all have to be saved. I mean ideally, part of it would

be saved. But at least when you're intentional with it, then

you're going to have more chance of it accomplishing the things

that you'd like it to accomplish. Because nobody likes

when when you want to ask them like, Oh, what is your bonus? Oh

$10,000? Okay, where did that go last year? I, not quite I know,

I put it into my account, but then that it's like, gets

dripped and dragged away. So definitely very intentional with

whatever you get there. It's using part of it towards a house

or part of it towards repayment of debt or part of it to save

and, you know, get that get yourselves on the right track,

you know, definitely be intentional with the money in

one way or another.

Right. How often do you run into a couple? And

this is sort of this, I could ask myself the same question as

well. As we've said, a couple of times, we sort of alluded to

money can cause stress, money can cause conflict. I, there was

a paper years ago, that was fascinating. They were basically

saying that all couples kind of have rules for fighting, you

know, whether they're written or unwritten, we just kind of

assumed, okay, you know, if we can't finish this in 15 minutes,

we're gonna go cool off, or don't yell at me, or don't cuss

at me, or, you know, once you throw a pot of my head, then

we're done or whatever. What this paper was saying, what the

study was suggesting was, if you have rules for fighting, okay,

don't call my mom names or whatever, you have rules for

fighting, most couples will keep them unless it's a money fight.

If I am going to break our written or unwritten

relationship rules, I will break it for money. I'm not going to

break it because your parents stepped over our holiday plans

or somebody came home late or whatever. But I will break it

for money. And not only will I break it, potentially, I'll go

for the jugular. Like I will throw all kinds of relational

equity out the window over the money fight. And so I guess the

question for you is how often have you run into situations

like the money thing has gotten to a point where it's causing

conflict? Like, and obviously I would say, you're probably gonna

say, well, first call me, you know, but help me with that. You

walked into a room, you're trying to sort of advise in in,

in resource you to see this as that this is a this is a tense

situation, and it seems to be resolved, revolving around

money? How do you sort of handle some of that?

Well, first of all, that's such an interesting

study, because it just goes to show the emotional power that

money has, I mean, if you would go and you know, beyond the

relationship fighting rules, like you put it, over money, it

just shows what a powerful motivator money can be. How much

fear and anxiety can be held within because I mean, money

translates to security. What you know, am I gonna be able to do

the things that I need to do in my life, to survive in the way

that I want to survive? You know, money can motivate people

and push people past what would be their normal, normal, normal

way of reacting. So that I mean, that study from, from that first

initial part is just really, really interesting. But for me,

we deal with some of this stuff, not when it's about to explode

probably, but as an advisor, and I'm 100% biased, because I am an

advisor. So I will readily admit that, but I think that people

should see an advisor as early as possible. There's this notion

like, I don't need to see somebody until I'm 40, or 50, or

60, or whatever it may be. And at that point, there's much less

time for somebody to help you. So when I meet with a younger

couple, while I why I love meeting with them is because we

can get all of this stuff out in the open in a safe way. So if

you know Bob things this and Jane thinks this about money,

they can voice their concerns, and they could say what they

feel out loud. And now they have somebody who's a professional

that can help navigate through this. So like, yeah, I

understand that you, you know, you feel like he doesn't have

enough life insurance, you feel like you know, he's not taking,

saving seriously enough, and then I could take that concern.

And I could show it to them visually in a way that they can

both digest it, and now make a joint decision, like going

forward from it. And you'd be shocked how many times this

stuff is below the surface and the other spouse doesn't even

know. Like, when we the first thing we do is we always talk

about goals when it comes to meeting with a new client. And

when one person says like, oh, yeah, I'm definitely gonna

retire early. And then you see the spouse look at them, like

what do you mean, retire early? How am I gonna get my second

house if you retire early? Right? It's like all this stuff

that's below the service that they're assuming their spouse

knew that they didn't know at all. So you know, if you're, if

you have an advisor, I just always recommend having that

person to go talk to and that just helps get all this stuff

out on the table. Because even when I have to give people bad

news, like, nobody wants to come in and have me tell them, like

you're not on the path that you want to be on, but they leave

still relieved, because knowing I'm on a bad path, and knowing

the options to get me on a good path is much more comfortable

than having no idea if I'm on a bad path, but kind of thinking

I'm like be. So you know, that advisor, again, having that

professional just like they're going to you to help them with

the engagement process and gain clarity on that as they head

into their life together, having that separate individual that

professional that can help navigate that for them from a

financial standpoint. I've just seen time and time again, is so

helpful to people.

Right. I like the word advisor. And and I have

tried. When you say the word counseling to anybody, it just

scares them. Financial Counseling, marriage counseling,

even premarital counseling, they think I'm gonna, you know,

they're gonna come in here and you can lay on the couch and

tell me about your mom or no,

like, you're almost doing something wrong.

Yeah, yeah, well, he's gonna, he's gonna

find out our secret like, No, I mean, the that advisor piece,

like you should have an advisor, you should have a financial

coach. I, I went to a lot of school, and I learned a lot of

things. And none of them were finances, I took one personal

money management class to get my math credit out of the way. I

know. Now, if you want me to translate Hebrew, or Greek or

Aramaic to you, I'll be more than happy to do that. But I

already know like, I that's not in my wheelhouse. And so having

that coach having that advisor is very important. And it's not

a bad thing. I mean. I I tell couples all the time that the

aunt, you know, when couples get into conflict, they think the

answer is either in your head or it's in my head. And you have to

allow, whether it's emotions, whether it's conflict,

communication, whatever, or finances No, you have to make

the allowance. No, there could be an answer. And it could be in

someone else's head. And you have to go get that that's why

those resources are there. What are some of the famous or not

your famous? Your favorite resources? Like where would you

point some folks, if you if they aren't necessarily going to come

to New Jersey this weekend? Where would where would some

folks who are listening across the country around the world?

Where would they would you want to point them to maybe do some

of this if they're just sort of dipping their toe in before they

come into somebody's office?

Sure, sure. So I mean, that I like that line that

that you just use, though, as well. You know, it might not be

in my head or your head, like don't assume that either one of

us has the answer. And I mean, that goes back to just you know,

the fact that nobody's, you can't learn everything in

school. Nobody can. The fact that you had one personal

finance classes more than most people have. So you're actually

ahead of the game which is sad.

But it's changed? Listen, what I learned.

I mean, I was in college in 1995. None of that applies

anymore. I learned how, you know, when I talk to people

about balancing a checkbook, and the whole ledger thing. I mean,

they just look at me like weirdos like, No, you still have

to do some of that like to balance your stuff at the end of

the month. Oh my gosh, no one does. But go ahead. Finish what

Yeah, no, absolutely. And it's just that

you're saying?

there are people out there and like sometimes we're okay with

taking advice from other people. You know, if it's a plumber, I

know I can't, you know, unclog pipes. So, you know, if it's a

plumber, that's fine, we're ready to admit like, yeah, I

don't know that. And I'm okay with using somebody that does

know that. But for certain things when it comes like

emotions, or finances or money, like we don't seem to be able to

jump mentally that to that conclusion as readily. So

finances is that kind of that that taboo kind of thing. So

when it comes to the resources, I don't know that there's a ton

of resources out there for young people in particular, which is

why I started my podcast because I think it's kind of

embarrassing as a country that we don't educate our youth as

much as they need to be able to go out there once they get jobs

and to do all that. So my podcast I hope is a resource

that people can use for sure. There's some very classic books

like you know, The Millionaire Next Door, which is a really

cool thing about just you know, the the wealthiest people in

your neighborhood are probably not the ones that are driving

the biggest newest shiniest car because they're spending money

to get that to make to have a large value a large net worth

you have to not spend money and save it and invest it and a car

is not an investment so The Millionaire Next Door I think is

a good one to just also throw in there to to encourage people to

look at the other side of the spectrum that it's not you know

what your worth is not what you show. It's what you have.

Oh yeah. No the best the thing the thing I love

to see is a nice, not necessarily huge house but a

nice house, the beat up car out front, and I look at that. That

is a smart couple. Somebody is doing something smart. Alright

so the easiest way for people to find you your website is

EnjoyMore30s.com And I'll put I'll put a link to that on on my

side in our show notes. But what is the easiest way for people to

connect with you if they want to give you a call or connect with

you? When once they hear this what's the easiest way for

people to find you?

Yeah, it's pretty easy. You can like you said you

can go into the website EnjoyMore30s EnjoyMore30s.com My

financial firm's website is nhwmllc.com. New Horizons Wealth

Management LLC .com. I'm on LinkedIn, you know, Instagram,

anywhere that you want to reach out, you could definitely find

me. So yeah, anytime anybody has any questions on anything,

please don't hesitate to reach out and give me a shout. I'm not

doing all of this for any other reason than to just get

information out there to people that should be having this

information already. So please don't hesitate to ask if you

have a question.

Absolutely. And obviously, my website is

WeddingChaplain.com. You're more than welcome to reach out to me

there. Well, Joe, this has been fabulous. Any final thoughts?

Anything that you'd like to close this out with?

Yeah, let me let me one thing we didn't touch on

that I was hoping to mention to everybody today as well is one

of the biggest things that I recommend young families do that

do not do. And one of the biggest mistakes that they make

is not having enough protection for themselves. So you know, you

get married, you start having kids, you have a house, and now

you have something that's worth protecting. And as a young

person, your biggest asset is not what's in your bank account,

it's not your 401(k), it's your future earnings potential. So if

you may make, you know, if you make $100,000 a year, you're on

pace to make $3-$4 million worth of income over the course of

your career, if not more, that's your biggest asset. So I know

you know disability, not a fun thing to think about. I don't

like thinking about becoming disabled or dying or anything

like that. But those are the insurances that make sure this

house that you're building does not come crashing down. If God

forbid, were to, you know, something were to happen to you.

And when you're young and healthy, these insurances are

very cost effective. It you know, it's not something that's

going to put a big hole in your pocket to make sure that your

family is protected. I have an episode called Survivors Don't

Complain About Too Much Life Insurance, like no one's going

to be like, Oh, I wish that I got a little bit less from from

my husband when when he had when he passed away. So just make

sure that this life that you're building, there's so much great

positive stuff, make sure you protect it, because that's the

biggest mistake that we see people make. And you know, God

forbid, you have a little child or something like that out there

and you pass away. You don't want your you know, your spouse

and your child to be put into a terrible situation. So something

very easy that a lot of people overlook. Outside of that to

close on a more happy positive note, wherever you are right now

you're starting off in your life, just forgive yourself for

anything you may not know, you're not uncommon, you know,

most people were not taught anything. So what you can do

today, wherever you may be, is take that step forward. Make

sure that you don't live beyond your means and make sure you pay

yourself first, and you're gonna put yourself and you know, very,

very lovely a great position for you and your family going

forward.

Very good. Very good. Well, Joe Okaly, this has

been a wonderful conversation again, we'll put all the links

in both of our respective podcast show notes, so you'll be

able to connect with either of us after this episode. Joe,

thank you so much for being with us today. It was a pleasure.

Thank you very much as well David, this was a

really cool thing to talk about. And I hope a lot of people out

there get a lot of value from it.

Awesome, man. Thank you.

The conversations on this show are

Joe's opinions and provided for general information purposes

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professional advice for your specific situation. You should

only seek appropriate advice from a financial advisor,

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any content or information found here first. Joe is affiliated

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of TFS Securities Inc., and TFS Advisory Services an SEC

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