Ever wondered what it takes to pivot from chasing a baseball dream to steering a $350 million county budget? In my conversation with Rick Hester, Johnston County’s trailblazing manager, we uncovered the raw moments of minor league life, the high stakes of public service, and the art of balancing passion with fiscal responsibility. How do you transform failure into a legacy? What does it mean to truly serve your community? Join us and explore the unexpected lessons behind every pitch and policy.

We also talked to him a little bit about. The county reevaluation process and how he goes about crafting the $350 million county budget every year. Listen in, I think you will learn a lot.

Jonathan Breeden: Hello and welcome to another edition of The Best of Johnston County Podcast. I'm your host, Jonathan Breeden. And on today's episode we have County man, Johnston County Manager Rick Hester, and we're gonna do two separate episodes of him.

There's over 20 of them and they affect your life every day and you might not even realize it. But before we do that, we're going to ask you to like follow up, subscribe to this podcast wherever you're seeing it on Spotify, apple. Uh, TikTok, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, all of our different social media channels so that you'll be aware.

Aware of future episodes of The Best of Johnston County Podcast. The Best of Johnston County Podcast has comes out every single Monday and has now for well over a year. We're well into over 70 episodes, so go back and listen to some of our previous episodes with some of our county commissioners. Patrick Harris, Butch Lawter.

They're all somewhat timeless, so it's never too late to go back and listen to some of your neighbors and friends on this podcast. Welcome, Rick.

Rick Hester: Thank you. Appreciate you having me today, right?

Jonathan Breeden: I think you, my wife, I got one neighbor and one of my son's best friend's Moms are the only people that routinely listen to this podcast every single week, so I want to thank you for that.

Rick Hester: Well, it's great you do. I told you earlier today after your law career. I think you should go nationwide with this.

Jonathan Breeden: I love doing it. Like I said, I started this to, and I remember talking to you when I was coming up with this idea Yep. And I was like, I wanna put something positive out there. Yes. You know, positive for the county.

Sure. At the time we start this, we've got an indicted county commissioner. We've got an indicted school board member. They're both currently in prison, which is very sad. I was like, we need something positive for Johnston County to be out there. And and that's what we've tried to do. Yep. So tell the audience who you are, what you do.

My parents are still there. I. Still got family there and just love going back. I, I really, I feel like I've had it the best of both worlds. I got Bladen County and Johnston County, so yeah. A special place and, and Johnston County is a special place to me too. Well, and you growing up there.

Jonathan Breeden: I think your dad was a county commissioner.

Rick Hester: He was. My dad was a county commissioner as I was a teenager. And I never thought about it until later on. Sunday night, he'd get a phone call, somebody complaining about something, you know, with a ne with an animal or something. And him dealing with it and, and, so I always was intrigued with local government, but you know, as you mentioned earlier, when I was growing up, my lifelong dream was to be a major league baseball player.

Jonathan Breeden: Right. And you, you, at one point you played baseball at Clemson.

Rick Hester: Yes. Right. I did. I played in college. I actually went to, you'll like this, I went to NC State as a freshman to play baseball and go to school. Oh, I didn't know that. And yep. Played for Coach Esposito and I stayed there a year and a half and it wasn't, I was going through some challenges where I, well, you know, when you're 18 or 19, you always think you should be playing every minute, right.

I look back about how silly I was, but anyway, I just felt like I wasn't growing there and I transferred back home to a community college, Southeastern Community College in Whiteville. And then Clemson recruited me out of there. So I actually go, went back and played against my buddies from State. Oh, that was a lot of fun.

Jonathan Breeden: Oh, how about that? Yep. How about that? Yep. So, which uh, organizations you played pro baseball with?

I got drafted outta community college. I was at Southeastern by the Giants San Francisco. And then. But you know, I mean, they were like, Hey, we, we'll give you a thousand dollars signing bonus if you're ready to go to Idaho or something, you know? So I said, well, I might better go to school and keep signing, get my degree.

And so after my junior year at Clemson, I got drafted by the Cleveland Indians. And you know, not a lot of bonus money, but it was fun. I mean, it was kind of cool to get drafted, you know, nowadays it's a live show, you know, back then you got a telegram, you know, so it's different, you know. So after my senior year, I got drafted by Texas Rangers and had spent three years with them.

Jonathan Breeden: Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure it did. so did you play single a double A.

Rick Hester: I played my first year. I was in the Rookie League in Sarasota, Florida. Okay. All of our games were right there in the Sarasota Tampa area. It's called the Gulf Coast League. I stayed there that summer and played, then I went back to Tampa in the fall for, they called it instructionally.

It's where they thought you might be a prospect, they want you to come back in the fall. So I was doing well and then my second year I spent it in Burlington, Iowa. Okay. I drove to Iowa and spent the whole season there. And I'll tell you a cool story. I don't wanna dominate the time on this, but, when I started in Burlington, I was doing very well that year. I was a starting pitcher. And so, the Rangers back in the day, the major league teams would go play their triple A affiliates during the season,

Jonathan Breeden: correct? Correct.

Jonathan Breeden: So the big league club did

Rick Hester: the big league club was going to Oklahoma City play and then they would be Boston the next night. So I was just going up for one night. I mean, I was, I was on a. Quick two-way ticket back home. Okay, back to Burlington.

Jonathan Breeden: Okay,

Rick Hester: so I got to pitch that night. But the funny thing is there was a guy that Knuckle Baller named Charlie Hough Back in the day, he was with the Rangers and he, was going on to Boston. They didn't, he was going pitch the next night, right? Well, I had his uniform. So I had everybody, all these people go, Hey Charlie, can I, will you sign this? So it was a lot of fun, but I got the experience that went back and then. My third finished the season there, and then my third year I spent it between Daytona Beach and uh, Salem, Virginia, in the Carolina League.

Pitching in that part at the old Durham Bowl stadium was the, while I'll never forget, warming up and warming up in the bullpen with a chain link. Three feet away with somebody with a big old tub of beer calling you names. I mean, that was just, that was just, you know, so I'll never forget that. That's why I love Bull Durham, you know?

Jonathan Breeden: No, that's a great movie. No, and, and I, you know, I guess that stadium closed in like maybe 94. The new one opened, I believe in 95, and so I was a freshman in NC State in 93, and I did get to go oh, to a couple games at the old stadium. Yes. And, that was quite the experience. Yes. And yes. I'm glad I did because they built the new one and while I, I liked the new one, it's not quite like the old one.

It's basically a city block or less than that. It was very small and,

Rick Hester: and that stadium I went by there a couple years ago. It's still going there. I think that the university there I. Used to play there. NC Central, I think. Okay. I think they, I think it's still there, right? They, at one time were playing their home games there, but I don't know if they still are, but that stadium is special.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, that, that's awesome. And that's a, that was a great movie. And they, they're trying to revive the play and so, a couple months ago they were doing it. At Duke University, there is a musical based on the book, written by the same man, and they're trying to get that musical to Broadway and they did it at, they ran two weeks at Duke.

Rick Hester: but I'll tell you a quick story.

He said, Rick, you know, we've, we've gotta make some decisions. And you know, I just wanna be honest with you, you know, it doesn't look bright for your future here as a pitcher, but we'll send you, we could send you back to Daytona Beach if you want to. We could. If you want a release, we'll give you that and we'll help you find another team.

So. But it was a, I mean, I could write a book about that whole experience.

Jonathan Breeden: Oh, I, well, I mean, well, and the things you learn, right? Yeah. I mean, sports, the things you teach, you know, having to, to work hard and, and earn what you get, that's important. Yeah. Nobody's giving you anything. Yep. Nobody, you know, it teaches you that. How to fail.

Rick Hester: Oh, failure is huge in baseball,

Jonathan Breeden: right? You're gonna fail. I mean, the best players in the world get out seven outta 10 times.

Rick Hester: Well, the toughest thing I had to deal with was I was a player in college primarily. This pitching thing was kind of came as a last minute court thing. Yeah. But as a player, you have a bad day.

Well, generally you can come back the next day and you can kind of, as a starting pitcher, that's a four or five days of just, you know.

Jonathan Breeden: Right.

Rick Hester: you just wanna get back out there, but you can't, you know?

Jonathan Breeden: Right.

Rick Hester: So that was an adjustment, so,

Jonathan Breeden: right.

So what degree did you end up with at Clemson?

when I went off to play pro ball, I still had some credits left. When I got outta pro ball, I was like, you know what? I hate it for this registrar, this college to have to sort through all this stuff. But I'm, I think I'll go back to UFC Pembroke.

Jonathan Breeden: Oh,

Rick Hester: close to home. See if I can get all that stuff transferred there.

That's where I finished.

Jonathan Breeden: Oh. Okay

Rick Hester: From my undergrad. Then later I wheeled back around and got my master's at NC State.

Jonathan Breeden: Okay. What was that?

Rick Hester: Master's in Public Administration. Public Administration. Yep. That's right.

Jonathan Breeden: Okay. And I tell everybody that I took, a couple of public administration classes in undergrad.

And when I applied to law school, if I didn't get in, I was gonna go get a Master's in public administration because I absolutely love those classes. Yep. How it's structured. Who answers to who? Sure. Building out a team, which is exactly what I'm doing here now. Sure. And so that was my fallback plan.

Rick Hester: yeah, kind of interesting. And I went full circle with NC State, go as a freshman, probably not ready, you know what I'm saying?

As a freshman that go to a big college like that and go full circle, round end up getting my master's there.

Jonathan Breeden: Yeah. Well, so why are you such a big Clemson Tiger fan?

Rick Hester: I spent two years of my life there and it just I have to say, man, when I first, I went to the first football game there when they were recruiting me, I was like, I'm done.

I'm a tiger. You know? Oh, it, my goodness. Just amazing. But now state is very close to my heart too. But you, they're my second team.

Jonathan Breeden: You give me such a hard time when the tigers beat the wolf pack. So, anyway. Alright, so, So you get this MP Master's, I mean, this wasn't your first job.

Rick Hester: No, I was, I got my Master's at State while I was working in Johnston County.

Jonathan Breeden: Oh, you already, okay.

Rick Hester: I drove there a couple nights a week for six and a half years.

Jonathan Breeden: Oh, geez.

Rick Hester: No, online back then, right? Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: So you got this job without a master's.

Jonathan Breeden: Assistant manager. Okay. Yes, that's right. Because usually you have to have, at least to be the county manager, you don't have to, at least now it's kind of a thing.

Rick Hester: Yeah, it's

Jonathan Breeden: maybe not 25 years ago. Right,

Rick Hester: right. But so anyway, so I'm glad I did it. but I was thinking back as it would've been nice to have online classes back then, but they didn't exist.

Jonathan Breeden: They didn't exist. So you came to, to Johnston County, you became the assistant county manager.

Jonathan Breeden: oh man. Okay.

Rick Hester: So for 12 years I was in that office and then I moved into the county manager's office in 91 Richards with Richard Self, who was there.

Jonathan Breeden: Okay.

Rick Hester: Spent eight, seven or eight years there. And then when Richard left in 99, then I was named interim.

I mean, oh

Rick Hester: yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: You saw a board that was all Democrat to a board that's now all republican.

Rick Hester: I think when I first, yeah, when I first moved here in 87, I think it was all the Democrat board. Right. and then it slowly. Over the years. Well, Cookie Pope, I think was the first, I think so

Jonathan Breeden: Republican in this Yes.

We're not gonna get conservative into how the Democratic party and publican party changed. Yeah. Most of y'all understand that. But this county started to change with Cookie Pope and then with Steve Bizzell and JH Langdon. JH Langdon. Correct. And, and then it just kept going. Then you end up getting Alan Mims and DeVan Barber. DeVan, the his father was on there

Rick Hester: and Fred Smith.

Rick Hester: Yeah,

Jonathan Breeden: if I'm right about that. I could be wrong.

It was right about that time. Yeah.

Rick Hester: So there maybe a little later, but I'm not sure.

And Wake County and particularly Garner, did not, and I guess you get some credit for that, but like, when did it dawn on you or did it become clear to you since you've been here, this through this entire thing? Mm-hmm. That this was going to be like a tsunami and we better start getting ready.

Rick Hester: I knew when 40 came into play and I don't remember the exact year.

I was like, you know what, here we are with I 95, you know, and then I 40 and really now we got three interstates with I 42. That was when I really knew, when that I 40 was starting to come through. I said this, this is going to be, this is gonna be a big deal, you know?

Eight year term. Jim Hunt was also governor from 76 to 84. Sure. So that's why I think it was 92. And I remember right. My first experiences with the 40 42 interchange was there was a McDonald's and a bp and there was a payphone. and you know, if you were going to the beach, you could get gas, you could get McDonald's, and if you need to call somebody, you could use the payphone.

And I'm not that old. I mean, but like, that's kind of what it was. You know, my kids listen to this and I talk about this kind of stuff. Oh yeah. They're, and they're like. What? No, no real internet, a payphone, a BP station, and a McDonald's. that's what was here and where my office sits now, I had some cows.

Rick Hester: Well, it is hard to predict the future, you know? Right. It's probably been even bigger than I thought. And I think, you know, we certainly have the Raleigh influence here too. I mean, right. Oh's huge. The Raleigh influence is huge. But, and I've said this and I know everybody would probably say that about where they are, but I think Johnston County is the most dynamic county in North Carolina.

And when you look at what we have with the interstates and the roads. And the proximity to Raleigh and Wake County. And then we still have a strong agricultural base here. We do, we do. It's huge. And that's a good thing. So we've got a little bit of everything here.

Jonathan Breeden: No, we absolutely, we absolutely do.

And then when I tell people where I grew up, I say, I grew up 30 miles from south of the border. Everybody seems to know where south of the border is going down I 95. So it's like, kind of interesting that way.

Have family law questions? Need guidance to navigate legal challenges? The compassionate team at Breeden Law Office is here to help. Visit us at www. breedenfirm. com for practical advice, resources, or to book a consultation. Remember, when life gets messy, you don't have to face it alone.

Jonathan Breeden: So what are, I mean, what have some have been some of the bigger challenges?

I mean, the growth has been unbelievable. Like what challenges has that brought for you having steered this ship through 26 years of it?

Rick Hester: Well, I think, one of the big things is infrastructure. And to me, infrastructure includes a lot of things. Water, wastewater, school construction.

We are, and the board's very locked in on infrastructure and I think that is the key.

Jonathan Breeden: well, and, you know, we, I mean we've built so many schools Yes. In the last 25 years. Yes. And we have a, a new wastewater treatment plant that just came online Yes. In the last three or four months as well.

So I mean, I do think we've done a pretty good job staying in front of it, but some people would say that we're still maybe five to 10 years behind what we should be. What do you say to that?

And even just outside of our county, you know, the extra lanes on I 40 now, which you really notice when you get on there, drive to Raleigh, the new I five 40, which is outside of Johnston County, but it impacts Johnston County. So, I think there is a natural lag. You certainly wanna make sure that the numbers are at a certain place.

There's enough homes and people there before you build a school, you know, versus let's go ahead and build one now and hope people. Come in around it, you know, but, so there is a natural act.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, and as far as the schools are concerned, I don't know if people realize this, but the county continues to grow, but the school population has been largely flat the last two or three years.

It's the first two story elementary school in Johnston County. Mm-hmm. On Cleveland School Road near Smithfield in the Wilson's Mills area. I mean, I think that that is gonna allow us to possibly catch up where we've sort of been chasing ourselves and we've had so many trailers Sure. Outside these schools for the last 20 years.

Rick Hester: Sure, sure. Absolutely. And I think, like I said, I think there's a natural lag there. But there's a lot of things that are happening to reduce those mobile units, those numbers too, so, yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, let's talk a little bit about the budget. Yeah. You know, the budget is passed in June of every year.

Oh, yeah. I mean, you, you really never stop, but you're really starting to work on it now. Right? Tell the people about how the process and how the budget comes to be.

Rick Hester: Yeah. So we start in uh, usually in in the February timeframe. I mean, we're starting now, so. And it is a, for two or three months is, is pretty intense process because my goal is to always present a budget, which I usually do in May.

I provide that budget in May that is responsible. Some people call me conservative with the numbers and I try to be that way just to try to. Provide everything that the, and listen to the board, because at the end of the day, I, wanna present a budget that's somewhat in, that's in line with the things that they think are important because they're the ones that are the elected officials.

And then every year people can appeal their values. Are there any appeals that might impact those revenues? What is the sales tax looking like? All, just a lot of different variables there. And so It's like a big pot of vegetable soup and you just putting certain different vegetables in there and pulling some out and hopefully present a very good budget to the commissioners and uh, that we all feel good about.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, and and you wanna make sure, you know, being a conservative county, you wanna make sure that, you know, we have, we have a huge fund balance. Yes. We have AAA bond rating. That's right. Which is almost impossible to get as a county government.

Rick Hester: It's, it's hard to get

Jonathan Breeden: I mean, and they worked on it for. 20 years a long time. I mean, at least 20 years. Where that was the goal.

And, and that enabled to help get us to that AAA rating. And why that is so important is there's not many counties that have it. Also it just about assures you of the best interest rates with all the money that the county borrows, you know, for schools and things. That half percent on the interest on a rate for a hundred million dollars is adds up, you know?

Well, right.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, and a high school is more than a hundred million dollars. Now we're building one right now in Wilsons Mills, and it's gonna be way more than a hundred million dollars. So you're right.

Rick Hester: I think, I think about 105.

Jonathan Breeden: Yeah. So I mean, it's, it's a lot. I mean, so, and I remember

Rick Hester: when we, when the, I say we, we all collectively working together had West Johnston was built and it was 32 million and people were just going, oh my God, I can't believe this.

Rick Hester: It's about $350 million.

And if you break that down I would say about 50% of that is for education support, operating expense support for the school system. The community college and also the debt, our debt service. Most of the debt service the county has has been for rock bond referendums and things of that nature.

We've had a few county projects like the Ag Center when it was built. That note has probably already been paid off, but, so that's probably about 50% of it. Obviously with the number of employees we have, that's a big, you know, expense also in the budget. And we have to look carefully at that.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, I mean, it is, and I know that uh, it's been important that we, you give the county employees pay raises. Yes. And I know y'all just did a Yes. A comparative analysis study of, because you were losing employees to the private sector.

You didn't wanna do that.

Rick Hester: And I tell you, I'm glad you said that because the board really. I'm so thankful that the commissioners did what they did with that Commission of Pay study, and they also said, we don't, 'cause we were losing paramedics and we don't need to do that. You know, I mean, and that's just one group that we were losing.

And so they said, not only we're going to do this pay study, we'll look at the numbers working in the budget. We want this analyzed, half the employees analyzed every other year just to make sure we're staying. 'cause we're in a very highly competitive market, you know, and it's important. And I think that has been huge for having our employees to be in a good place and wanting to stay right there.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, that is a big deal. That's a big deal. I know that. I've spent a lot of time here. In my office working on the culture of the last three or four years. Yeah. And I do think that might be the single greatest reason that I've had success I've had, and we've been able to doubt, to serve many citizens, as we have no doubt, is that we build a culture where people wanna be.

Because in an, in an economy like this where unemployment rate is basically zero, you know, people can find work somewhere else. Sure. And they don't wanna work for you. So the last question for this episode would be, let's briefly go through the reevaluation. Yeah. We're in the middle of it now. Yep. By the time this episode airs the appeals process, the time the appeal will have run, many of the appeals will already be ruled upon what's gonna happen next.

I'm speaking of April, where we're starting to really form that into the budget and to provide options to the commissioners that reevaluation process. You know, in North Carolina counties are required to do it at least every eight years, and for many years we've done it on eight years. And then the board said years ago, let's.

Tighten that cycle up a little bit because you can do less to take away some of the shock. And so this previous one at 70, average of 70% was six, just six years. Right. And so now we're going to go on four years starting now. Right. So the,

Jonathan Breeden: so right,

Rick Hester: so we had

Rick Hester: Yeah,

Rick Hester: be here before you know it

Mm-hmm. Now we don't know how far, but I think a lot of people are worried. But it's gonna come down and it's gonna come down significantly. 'cause these are Republican commissioners and they're not just gonna go spend a bunch of extra money.

Rick Hester: Yeah. I mean, I couldn't tell you what the rate's going to be that they adopt, but I do believe it.

The rate will come down.

Jonathan Breeden: Right. Because you've got that much more money. I mean, and they're not, and and I'm not saying it's gonna be revenue neutral, but I don't think this, I know all seven of them. And they are conservative folks. Yes. And they're not just gonna go on a spending spree. Right. At Amazon.

That's just not what they're gonna do. Absolutely. Uh, I mean, they're all really conservative. Yes. And they, they look at the county's money as their own money and Absolutely. And I really appreciate that. And that's one thing we're very fortunate.

Rick Hester: That's one thing I've always.

Reminded myself and remind when we're in staff meetings that, let's just remember now the funds that come in are coming from people's pocketbooks.

Jonathan Breeden: Right. No, that's That's exactly right. That's exactly right. That's

Right. So, you know, I mean, I'm just No, I, I get

Jonathan Breeden: that. I get that. So for this episode, the last question we'll ask you is, what do you love most about Johnston County?

Rick Hester: Well, I said it earlier and I, I think it's the most exciting place to be in North Carolina right here. That's my opinion.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, I, I don't disagree.

I don't disagree.

Rick Hester: And I know other people say this, and I'll say too, the people here in the community,

Jonathan Breeden: right? I agree 100%. Well, we'd like to thank Rick Hester for being our guest on this episode of The Best of Johnston County Podcast. We'd like to ask you to like, follow, subscribe, this podcast, wherever you're seeing it, since it should be aware of future episodes of The Best of Johnston County Podcast.

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That's the end of today's episode of Best of Johnston County, a show brought to you by the trusted team at Breeden Law Office. We thank you for joining us today and we look forward to sharing more interesting facets of this community next week. Every story, every viewpoint adds another thread to the rich tapestry of Johnston County.

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