Struggling to make a dent in your goals for the New Year again? Educator and coach Elizabeth Jurgensen explores with me how annual resolutions have turned rituals of renewal into rituals of failure, and outlines a more sustainable, grounded approach to change.

Tracing the surprising history of resolutions, she starts at their origins, millennia ago, in rituals centered on agriculture, responsibility, and community. Those practices evolved into our contemporary intention of making a fresh start with the incoming year. When we don’t become better versions of ourselves immediately, we see it as failure.

Elizabeth lays out how societal and familial conditioning steer us toward things we “should” want rather than those we genuinely desire, and how we get used to letting grief, shame, and regret drive our choices.

Many of us think of resolutions as punishment, atonement, or restitution. Elizabeth proposes that we break out of that mindset, focus on integration, and reframe the pursuit of goals as exploration and experimentation.

Using Elizabeth’s analogy of a garden, we discuss how transitions require patience, attention, and responsiveness to changing conditions. When we insist on rigid timelines, perfection, or outside expectations, we focus on the weeds. “Tending” things allows room for flexibility and compassion, and opens up more possibilities.

Key takeaway: Reaching our goals doesn’t mean starting over.

TESS’S TAKEAWAYS:

Internalized capitalism has turned self-improvement into a job.

All-or-nothing thinking leads to inconsistency, burnout, and self sabotage.

Desire-based goals have intrinsic drive.

Avoidance-based goals push energy to repression.

To figure out what you most desire, dwell in curiosity and possibility.

Progress framed as tending rather than fixing or achieving is more effective.

Rest, reflection, and integration are necessary transition points, not signs of failure.

Motivation increases when goals consider community impact, not just individual benefit.

ABOUT ELIZABETH JURGENSEN

With a thirst for learning and achieving, Elizabeth has had multiple careers applying herself to education, research, and disciplined practice.

Her post-college years were focused on the performing arts, as an actress and dancer. Moving to the corporate world, she got a business degree and worked in finance. Her next pivot was to work as a fitness instructor and wellness coach.

Discovering her love for academics, she went back to school, getting a Master’s degree in a new field and teaching college students.

Debilitating injuries from a car accident and ten years’ rehabilitation, made her work impossible, and brought Elizabeth to the next major phase of her life. She embraced somatics, exploring trauma healing, relational dynamics, and embodied awareness.

The values of slowing down and turning inward, and the gifts of deep presence and self-care became central to her philosophy. She pursues them as ends in themselves, not toward goal-oriented pursuits, nor in a commercial practice.

A certified somatic educator, Elizabeth integrates insights from ancient archetypes, women’s wisdom traditions, and the interplay of masculine and feminine energies. She shares what she knows in adaptive and informal ways to guide others.

MEET TESS MASTERS:

Tess Masters is an actor, presenter, health coach, cook, and author of The Blender Girl, The Blender Girl Smoothies, and The Perfect Blend, published by Penguin Random House. She is also the creator of the Skinny60® health programs.

Health tips and recipes by Tess have been featured in the LA Times, Washington Post, InStyle, Prevention, Shape, Glamour, Real Simple, Yoga Journal, Yahoo Health, Hallmark Channel, The Today Show, and many others.

Tess’s magnetic personality, infectious enthusiasm, and down-to-earth approach have made her a go-to personality for people of all dietary stripes who share her conviction that healthy living can be easy and fun. Get delicious recipes at TheBlenderGirl.com.

CONNECT WITH TESS:

Website: https://tessmasters.com/

Podcast: https://ithastobeme.com/

Health Programs: https://www.skinny60.com/

Delicious Recipes: https://www.theblendergirl.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theblendergirl/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theblendergirl/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/theblendergirl

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tessmasters/

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Oh, Elizabeth, I wish we were on the day bed, cuddling together, having this conversation, but we will do it over technology. And isn't that a wonderful gift? So how are you feeling? We're in sort of the end of March, and it's we're in a new year.

I am actually doing really well. And this kind of ties back to the moon talk that we did recently is I'm allowing myself to be a little bit in a resting in a dark phase, because last year was a really big year for me, a lot of really big things, big changes happened, and some of

them were wonderful, and, you know, planned for and wanted, and some things were not. And so it's just been quite a journey in 2025 and so for this year, at least for this first part of the year, in the winter, I'm just really allowing myself to just sort of metabolize everything that happened, metabolize it,

integrate it, make sense of it, you know. And and that actually feels really good to allow myself to do that.

Yeah, and we often don't allow ourselves to do that, like if we're thinking about last year and this year, last year was the year of the snake, this year is the year of the fire horse. There is this expectation that we leave the snake behind and that we should just be the horse. Jump on the

horse and, oh, it's January 1. We should be off to the races. We should be in full, full achievement mode. We should be just, you know, like, like, it's a race. There is that expectation that we put on ourselves, and actually, that integration, that weaving in, that natural, gentle, gentle

transition, is really, really necessary, as we talked about in our moon talk in Episode 65

Yeah, and, you know, and it makes me think about, I don't know if this is completely true, but I know as a human being, we also shed our skins, either through injury or just, you know, normal shedding of skin cells, but it makes me think a little bit about, let's say you've had a wound, and that

new skin that's coming into into view is very tender. And I like to think that that may be true for a snake as well, because the shedding is not quick. You know, it takes a while with the length of that old skin to completely fall off. And sometimes the snake has to move a certain way, or it needs to just be still,

but it kind of has to rig a lot of that old skin and and then kind of move away from it. And it's not an instant thing. So I would like to think that even the snake's new skin might be a little tender or like, oh, it's seeing sunlight for the first time. It's the ground for the first time. So there's an

acclimation that has to happen to the new skin. And you're right, we have this thing. I should just go from this state of being to the other state of being with no transition in between,

and we there's an expectation that we just flip the switch. It's just one day, it's one year. One day it's 2025 and then next it's 2026 and it should be all different, and we should be in a completely different state. And then when we don't find ourselves in that place, then those feelings of,

I'm not enough, I'm a failure. It's another wasted year. I can't believe I'm in the same place. You know, all of that stuff starts cropping up, which is how you and I came to speak about this.

Yes, same I should think about this exactly, because I've even had a couple conversations with people that felt a little guilty about waiting until the year, waiting for Chinese new year and the year the fire horse to start to begin to, you know, go after their goals or begin to practice

their resolutions instead of starting on January 1.

It is a ridiculous tradition, if we think about it, is ludicrous. Yeah, and it goes back 1000s of years, doesn't it?

Yes, yes. In fact, I'll, I'll spare our listeners going down their own internet nerdy rabbit hole. I did it for you

because you are, you are the best researcher that I know. So share what you found about this tradition that we all feel like we need to follow.

It actually goes back about 6000 years. There's evidence from about 4000 years ago that in ancient Babylonia and ancient Egypt, there were renewal festivities and rituals that took place now they tended to be in springtime a. Round planting. But what they involved were things like the

ruler of whatever the country was, or whatever the area was, like, sort of bowing down to the gods and being, you know, in humility, saying, I'm offering myself to you. I'm going to be a good ruler as a way to ensure the fertility of the crops, yeah, and also all the people would say, I'm going to be a

really good person this next year, because if I am, then we're going to have a really good crop yield. No one will go hungry. And so that was a tradition that went on for 1000s and 1000s of years in the Middle East and Egypt and probably many other areas. And then during the Roman period in 46 CE is when we

started using what we call the Julian calendar, which switched the beginning of the year to January,

instead of makes so much sense when we think about it this way, that actually it was about spring, right?

It was actually about spring. And so since there was so much more sense in January, there wasn't really a natural cycle, you know, of the springtime coming on and planting and all of that. So the Romans came up with this idea that if the year starts in January, that's a good time to

make all of our subjects renew their pledge to their leaders. And there was also a tradition of paying back any money that you owed and returning anything that you had borrowed from anyone as a way to kind of start the new year clean. So you're paying your dues, right? You're paying your dues Exactly. And

then in the Middle Ages, especially with Christianity, now really being a strong religion in the Western world, that really tied good behavior to the afterlife, that your afterlife will be good if you are a good person. So there was that. And again, at the beginning of the year, when the

calendar flipped over a lot of subjects. There was a kind of a ritual of pledging their allegiance to their Lord, or whoever their ruler was. Oh, you got

your head cut off, right? Got disemboweled. I think of the Middle Ages as a draconian chapter of torture, like, if you, if you said to me, I want to go back to any time in history. I'm not going back to the

Middle Ages. It was, it was definitely not that severe, but there was, but there was, for sure, this link between good behavior and being right in the eyes of God and also being right in the eyes of whoever had power over you. And in fact, even in the age of chivalry, the knights would

renew their vow to be the rituals of chivalry for the next year. That was part of the thing that would happen in January. Then we finally get into the enlightenment, and we've got some new scientific and philosophical ideas coming in, and we've got humanism, which is beginning to emphasize a little

more the individual, rather than hierarchy and being part of a community, but it's still flavored with those religious ethics of you know you are in you have to earn the favor of God by good behavior and good belief, but it's also sprinkled in there with living what was called a virtuous life as a way

of self improvement. Here in the United States, we have the person Ben Franklin, who came up with things like Early to bed and early to rise makes a man wealthy and wise. So there was this idea that good behavior could be pursued as an end in itself, as a as a moral belief system. And then by the 19th

century, it was all completely secular, and self improvement was seen as a virtue unto itself. And that's when we started to really see the I'm going to make New Year's resolutions. I'm going to do all these things, but they tended to be about the individual, nothing to do with the community, and so

that's where we are now. And the reason I bring all this up, and I think it's worth it, is we're fighting against millennia of this idea that when the calendar flips over, we're supposed to make a fresh start, and we're supposed to become a new person, and we're supposed to be looking to achieve perfection,

which we know is a fool's errand, because perfection does not exist, and yet we still, we still strive for it. We're still thinking we're going to be the unicorn that's going to be able to be perfect,

right? It's

this, this thing about the spring, because if we think about January, no matter where you are in the world, if you're in the northern hemisphere, particularly if you're in a place where it snows, it's hibernation phase, really, it's freezing cold. And if you're down in Australia,

it's stinking hot. The sun is blazing. So either way. Me, it's not conducive to fertilization and ideal conditions for something to thrive. You know, in sort of a temperate climate where you can be gentle and and things just allow, you know, there's this flow and an allowing of growth. It's just

too extreme. So as I'm, as I'm hearing you talk about the evolution of this, there is this, this sort of, as you were saying, bowing down, this reverence, this, I've got to do this in order to get that

yes, and I'm and a big linkage is I'm not a good person and I'm not a good citizen unless I bow to do certain things to make myself better.

So how do you feel about this age that we're in where we are encouraged to lean into personal growth.

That's a really good question. Let me just sort of drop in with that for a moment.

I think, on the one hand, it's always admirable to want to be a better person in the way that you move through the world. This focus on doing it to get a certain thing, like, if I lose enough weight, I'll get the partner that I want, or if I do this goal at work, I will get the promotion that I want,

having it tied to a very specific material outcome. I'm not so 100% on board with that, but I also know as human beings, the way we seem to be wired is we will not take action unless something seems like, if I don't, there's not going to be a good outcome. It's a motivation, right? There is that motivation?

One of the things that I actually think is sort of lovely from the ancient traditions, is things like, I'm going to return everything I've borrowed from other people. I'm going to pay my debts. I'm going to I'm going to clean up the mess that I may have made. You know, in the last year, I think that's

the personal responsibility piece of it, yeah, the checking in piece of it,

yes, and making a pledge to be part of a community. You know, I'm not really so on board with the bowing down to the leader, but behind that is the acknowledgement that I am part of a greater whole, and so I need to do my part in order to make the community solid. And I

think really lost that.

Yeah, I totally take your point that we don't completely control the world, but we play a part in creating it, and we need to take responsibility for that, right?

And one of the ways we can take a responsibility, I think, around this whole idea of New Year's resolutions, is to really interrogate what is behind my desire to have a resolution to go after a certain change within and how could that possibly benefit my community and not

just me. That's something that has really gotten lost.

Yeah, yeah, and we really are being called to to think about this and to sit in this inquiry and then act within it.

And I like to think that perhaps thinking about the impact of what we might be trying to accomplish for ourselves as an individual, if we think about the impact that that might have on other people around us, it actually might give us a particular motivation. And I'll use

something like the example of, you know, it's so common that people say I'm going to exercise more, I'm going to eat better, I'm going to lose some weight, if I need to. Taking a look at how does that impact my community in a positive way? Well, if you're in better health, you can show up,

probably in a more present way, to the people that you love, your friends and your family, you will probably have more energy for your job. For one thing, you'll probably be in a better mood, you know, if you feel good. So those are all positive impacts in a. Addition to the individual impacts of

feeling better in your body and being healthier and that kind of thing. So if we, if we put ourselves in that wider context, I think we can actually find a little motivation there. Because, you know, at this time of year, late March, I read somewhere that something like 8% of people that have a New Year's

resolution are actually still doing it after six weeks, 92% of people are completely done with their resolution. It's completely evaporated. Yeah, but,

but to your point, when you were recounting the history of how this all came about, was this invitation to relish the process rather than the destination, and if we accept the premise that mastery is not a destination, but a commitment to a path that has no end, this relishing the learning

and the inquiry and the discovery process and and dwelling in all of the possibilities instead of just the outcome.

I think that's a really good point. And I think that in the Enlightenment period when we started to be a little more individualistic and we started allowing philosophy and also science, including brain science, to influences, influences a little more. We

started to get a little more of an inkling about how behavior, behavior was actually linked to society and the way our brains worked, and, you know, things like that. I would say the answer would be, would be, yeah, yeah. I think that was a big movement at that time and but going back to what we were

saying about the arbitrariness of starting at the

beginning of the year, I would really like so arbitrary Yeah.

I would really like that to just be done

and we and we and we can decide that it's done in our own lives and anytime, because what you were saying before about the shedding of the skin happening gradually, we are shedding, shedding parts of our skin every single day as humans, absolutely, absolutely, and it's happening whether we're

cognizant of it or not, and so we can take stock of that and decide on a Tuesday at 3:35pm that it's the time we're going to make a change. It can be the perfect time to make a change is when we decide that it's time

exactly and usually that comes from within. There's something organic that arises, that just says, I'm done with the old way. I'm ready to start trying something new and and also going back to this whole January or even February, like the Year of the Fire horse spelling this year. Why do we do

this right after the holidays,

when everyone's in a coma, right?

Exactly, you know, you and I have had so many talks about how the end of the calendar year, at least in you know, Western civilization, is just so all about holidays and presents and shopping and parties and vacations and, you know, all these things. And January comes, I just want to

take a nap. I don't want to go to the gym and, you know, jump on a bike and start weight lifting. And that's why I say even for me, I'm letting this winter just be a dark period, a rest period, because last year was a

big year. Yeah, I mean, you moved to a whole other state. I did. Both of your dogs passed away unexpectedly. It was an incredible time of grief, and

still is, yes. Yes, it was, you know, Beau retired, yes. I mean, it's just,

it's huge. And we could go on and on and on, you know about other things, but huge life changes.

Yeah, those three things alone all happening in the same year

and within the span of, you know, a few of those things within a span of several months. I mean, just talk about a shock to the system.

Yes, and so it makes no sense to me after we've all been through this hyperactive period, because even if you're not participating a lot in, you know, winter holidays and that kind of thing, like, like, let's say you like, Nope, I'm not going to go to my families. I'm not going to go on

vacation. You know, all of that, you're still surrounded by that crazy energy. You can't help but be affected. You're bombarded by the media telling you this is, you know what this time of year is all about. And so there's a nervous system exhaustion that we all carry into January. And so if you're already coming from

a place of exhaustion and depletion, it seems kind of counterintuitive. Innovative to decide that now I'm going to start pursuing these amazing, big goals, but we think

we're meant to be a Ferrari without any fuel in the tank, without a team for pit stops or anything. Yeah, of course.

And that's the individualism, yeah.

And there is this idea that, and particularly if you've had a bad year the previous year, you want to wipe the slate, and you want this year to be better than ever. You want it to be the best year of your life. It has to be different, or I or I'm failing, or I'm not where I should be,

or, you know, there's just all of these expectations that we put on ourselves. And you and I talked about this in Episode 65 when we talked about the teachings of grandmother moon, this idea of internalized capitalism yes, that we have to be achieving all the time, that being resting isn't enough. It's

lazy. There's something less than if we engage in that rhythm or energy.

Yes and and internalized capitalism requires that there is no rest period, because if you stop, if the machine stops, the thinking is it could get rusty, or it could, when you start it up again, it may not work as well. Other technology might have already replaced it, and so now you're

behind so that industrialized, capitalistic mindset, we internalize that, and we apply it even to our own behavior. When the truth is, when your car is getting low on oil, you have to put more in, and that requires a pit stop. Yeah, you can't drive the car while you're getting an oil change. We all

try to do it while your tires are being rotated. It's up in the air on the roof, and here we are in the waiting room. You know of the car dealership going, come on, come on, come on. Hurry up. Hurry up. Get my tires rotated, because I've got things to do. We don't even see that is, Oh, wow. I have half an

hour that I could just sit here and relax for a minute. Yeah, we just go from thing to thing to thing. And so we've seen, we've we've created self improvement as a thing, as a job, rather than more of what I would call an intrinsic wish to move toward something that inspires us. And that's where the internalized

capitalism comes in. Are we really inspired by this thing that we want to do? I think that may be a lot of why people have fallen off whatever they wanted to accomplish as far as new year's resolutions by now is they weren't really inspired. They probably just felt like, well, I see these things in my

life that I think could use some improvement. So okay, I'll go ahead and make a resolution that I'm going to improve them. But are you really inspired?

Oh yeah. Okay, so that's what's what's coming up for me, as you're saying, this is these stories that we tell ourselves. Is it yours or is it somebody else's story that's been imprinted on you? Do you actually want the thing? Because we say that we want the thing, but then often, we don't do

anything to actually get the thing. We don't do the work, we don't ask for help, we don't resource ourselves and develop the skills that we need to get the thing, and then we complain about the fact that we don't have the thing, and then feel guilty that we didn't go after the thing. And it might not

actually be the thing that we want, right?

But again, we internalize in our culture this idea that I need to be a certain weight, I need to be a certain fitness, I need to make a certain amount of money, I need to have the surface this certain kind of lifestyle. And those are all stories from the outside that we have chosen to

influence us without really questioning that, does this really align with me and what's important to me?

Yeah, we're on autopilot a lot.

We are we really, really are we really, really are. And I think that's a little bit going back to you were asking me about where we are now in current culture, and I responded that one of the things I think I would like a little more of, is this is becoming more aware of our

impact on our community. Because one of the lovely things about feeling part of a community is you can talk to other people like this is what I'm thinking of doing. What do you think? How would this impact you? How would this impact the tribe? And you can also have models of what are other people doing that are not

geared toward perfection, but that are just geared toward how do we make a. A community function in an optimal way so that everybody thrives this.

This point about community is so key, because there's a reason why, when you're in prison and you get punished, they put you in solitary confinement exactly because you go mad without without other human contact. It actually sends you crazy because we're in

relationship, because now you're crazy and you and you and your nervous system is completely dysregulated by the lack of contact with other human beings, and so you are starved for human connection and human contact, and so that's a power over you that now you will be more compliant.

I want to talk about community based compliance too, though, because we do need to be discerning about who we spend time with and who we listen to, and the kind of content that we consume, as to the narratives that we are buying into, listening to, perpetuating, participating in

endorsing, and so therein, that plays a role in the story that is playing out in our heads. You know, is this thing that I want going to be accepted by my community, meaning my family, then my friendship community, maybe my church group, maybe the larger community, my work community, and then at large,

what are other people out there going to think about me? I'm going to miss opportunities because I'm swimming against the stream. There's that real fear, and we are wired for belonging as human beings, absolutely.

And that's why this is actually such a complicated and nuanced subject. And why I, I don't want to say, you know, resolutions are bad, having goals are bad. You know, wanting to pursue self improvement, even for its own sake, is not a bad thing, but you're absolutely right. How

does it fit into the context of the life that we're living, which includes other people? And it's also important to ask the questions like, you know, if I join a gym and work out at the gym, who really benefits? Yes, I get the benefit of hopefully getting healthier. But because this has become a cultural

thing, everybody joins the gym in January, who really benefits, who's making a lot of money here. So yes, we get a little bit of personal benefit, but there's this huge monetary benefit that goes to all the gym owners. So that's why they were getting all this advertising on social media, you know, at the

end of the year and in January, offering specials at your local gym, it's not about you being healthier. It's about you making them making money, right? And so that's another thing to that's another layer to interrogate. When we talk about whose agenda are we following here, when we make a resolution, even if it's

a self improvement agenda, that, on the surface looks like, Oh, I'm going to be the major benefactor, maybe. But if you're following a cultural trend, that means there's other benefactors as well, usually large institutions. And do you want to be part of that? Are you okay being part of that. And if the

answer is yes, that's fine. It's just know that that's what you are following. Yeah.

And as you say, it's murky territory, because there's nothing wrong with joining a gym. There's nothing wrong with working out at a gym. There's nothing wrong with paying people for a service and being part of the machine of a transactional endeavor. You know, of I pay you for a

service. You deliver it. It makes my life better. I mean, you know, I just want to be clear about what we're saying, Dear listener, right? That is absolutely nothing wrong with paying people for services. No, we're really interrogating this idea of what is yours and what is someone else's?

Yes, yes. And so I'd like to just kind of, you know, steer it back into, why are we even making these resolutions to begin with? And you know, we already talked about asking ourselves, is this something that I really want, or I've kind of been told I should want, you know, by by cultural

narratives that tell us, this is what I should want, this is how I should be, and this is the time that I should go ahead and start pursuing it, taking a look at that, and then, like we were saying, Does this really inspire me? Is this really aligned with my values and who I am and who I. You want to be.

And you know, we parental conditioning too. You know who is the dominant voice in your head? It's always a parent, right?

And I just want to bring up I have so much compassion for all of us, because we are so mean to ourselves. We are so self critical, and we also live in, at least in, you know, the Western world, and especially if you live in an urban environment, it's, it's not a

kind environment, it's not an environment that really supports us, you know, in optimal thriving. And so I just want to offer you, know, I think a big part of this reflection that we're doing is maybe taking a moment to just even have compassion for ourselves, and as we're reflecting on, why do we

have these resolutions? Why did I choose it, what's the story? Just go, wow, wow. I've been really operating under some really big pressures that I didn't even see were there and that may have not actually been in my best interest. And I'm just going to give myself the acknowledgement that I'm just

doing the best that I can here, instead of getting down on myself for not having lost 30 pounds, you know, by the end of March to just go. You know, life takes a lot to get

and particularly at the moment, it's like you wake up and another horrendous thing has happened. And the stress of that, the anxiety of that, the where do I fit into a world that is changing so quickly? That's what it feels like to me right now. I wake up and I just feel like, whoa. I

just got my footing from the thing that that destabilized me yesterday, and now it's even worse than it was yesterday, and that's where we have to keep doing our own work, of regulating our nervous systems, calming ourselves, speaking to ourselves, doing therapies, being open and honest about how

we're feeling, staying in relationship, asking for what we want, so that we can find A balance in any given day so that we can exist in this world.

I couldn't agree more. And something that you and I have talked about is how often, because you and I are both guilty of this, is we will pursue a project or, you know, something that we think needs to be improved in ourselves, or improved in, you know, our surroundings as a way to avoid

the feelings of how hard life can be sometimes. And so I think, and I and I know I'll just speak for myself personally, that if I'm pursuing something as a way to avoid something else. It's much more difficult for me to reach that end result, that goal, because I'm there's a lot of internal

energy going towards suppressing, not feeling what I don't want to be feeling energy that's such a point, and that's energy that could be put toward going after my goal. And I just want to throw that out there, because I also think that could be part of why, especially by this time of year, a lot of

people have fallen behind or just completely given up on any goals that they set for the new year, because they possibly and you spoke to it like the new year can be a reset. It can be a do over. But have you processed the feelings from what happened in the past? Have you come to terms with what the past has

been? Because if you haven't, then you're not really turning over to a blank page. You're still carrying forward. Whatever is, is is unresolved

and and to your point, though, the expectation that you will turn the page and it will be blank is there in you know, only happens if you're writing a novel and you're literally turning it over and you're gonna, you know, it's, it's, it's never blank. And even then, it's not blank, because

we're carrying all of our experiences and weaving it into the next bit of creation. And something that's coming up for me, you and I have spoken about this a lot, is that we are consuming more than we're creating.

Yeah, talk more about that. Refresh my memory. I know we had a really long conversation one time about Yeah,

this idea that we're consuming the outputs of others. And riffing off of that more than creating from our own internal truth and what's coming up for us, and believing that that has value, and putting our voices into the mix, our beliefs, our desires and we get caught up in the in, in the

stream, in the stream of the collective, or the stream of somebody else, or the the tsunami I would even offer, and we get swept up in all of this activity and all of this noise. And to your point, before reminding ourselves to check in, give ourselves grace. Take a breath, take stock, integrate.

Slow down, rest, sleep, stop you speak about this a lot to me, Well, what? What would the consequences be? Tess, if you just stayed where you are right now?

Yeah, yeah, exactly

that feels like death to me. I'm just getting, you know, it does, you know what you know?

I know it does. And and it feels like death to a lot of people, and I think that's part of the this idea of, you know, turning over a new leaf, or opening to the blank page, doing a reset. It's kind of like when we were in school as kids. You know, I know when the new school year

started, I was like, I have my new notebook, I've got my new pencils, I have some new clothes. It's a new me, and there's going to be new kids that probably don't know me. So I can be a new person, especially when you move like, when you move from middle school to high school, and there's

going to be a whole bunch of new students. It is a chance to present a new version of yourself, which is super exciting. There's nothing wrong with that. Talk about the opportunity to shed an old skin and grow a new one, but if you haven't completely shed the old skin, and, like we were saying,

resolved any leftover feelings from that, and asked yourself, am I, is this really what I want, or am I just being swept up in the tsunami? Yeah. And you can't know until you stop for a second, yeah. You just can't know. And we talked a little bit about this in the moon talk, is there's this idea of the waxing

moon. Remember, I talked about how the moon doesn't go from Dark of the Moon to full in one or two nights. It's it's half of a month, it's multiple days, and it's just a teeny, teeny, teeny, little bit at a time, and during that period, we have a chance to fine tune. So as far as staying where you are, I look at that

is, we're not static. We're never really, completely just staying where we are, truly. I mean, even if I seem on the outside like I'm doing the same things internally, I'm still taking stimuli. I'm still processing it. I'm still thinking about it. And I was thinking the other day about,

let's say, someone like you, who is a who is a business owner, there's a lot of pressure to every year, make more money, make more clients, make more products, whatever it is, whatever, whatever your business is geared toward, I think there's a lot of value. And in fact, I did this when I was a

business owner. At a certain point, I was feeling really overwhelmed by that feeling of, I've got to get more clients, I've got to get more clients. I've got to get more clients. Well, first of all, there's only so many hours. But I was a little blind to that, and I thought, why is it so bad to say

I am perfectly happy with the amount of money that I'm making right now? It's a good amount I'm paying. I'm, you know, I'm covering my expenses, I'm saving I have a good life. What is wrong with staying where I am and just fine tuning, like, maybe internally, like, let's say, again, you're a small

business owner taking a look at, like, do we really want to keep this product and maybe we'll get rid of this product? Or maybe I'm going to shuffle around the staff a little just to see who does better and different jobs. Or, you know, I'm or I'm going to give myself time to brainstorm some new ideas that

I'll put into into effect in another year. But this year, I'm just going to kind of stay where I am, and I'm going to fine tune, and I'm also going to look for what kind of comes into my awareness, all on its own that maybe needs some attention.

Oh, I love, I love what you're saying, because you know that I am finding the growth of skinny 60 challenging in the sense of I. I know every single person that's done the program. I know them by name. I know them by face. I know their their hearts and their challenges and their struggles

and their triumphs, and I've had very in depth conversations with them, and that really matters to me. I value that. I love it, and the thought of it going beyond the capacity by which I will be able to do that is, is, is, is heartbreaking for me in a way. And you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm struggling at the moment to

embrace the thought of that change, but I weigh it up with I know this program really, really, really works and changes people's lives, and I want more women to experience better health over 40, and I know that we have the answer to help make that happen, because I See it every single day. So I'm

constantly balancing my personal desires with my desire for the collective. Going back to what you were saying before, what is the impact? So impact is a word that resonates very deeply with me, and I know it does with you as well, because we want to be conscious members of the collective, whether it's a

collective of two, like today, or whether it's a collective of, you know, 6 million or 6 billion, you know. I mean, you know, so, so that balance is coming up for me, of, oh, just, you know, again, checking in, sitting with my heart going, what do I want to grow this? Because that's what I think

should happen, exactly, yeah. Or is it because, oh yeah, yeah, I really, really, really want this. To your point about, do you really want it, or is it you're acting because you think you should want it?

And then back to the impact this goes with any action that we take with with anything, any goal that we're pursuing is we have to be willing to sit down and really honestly look at what is this going to cost me? What is it going to cost me in time? What is and that's my big one. I

can be one of those people that I'm like, Yes, I'm going to do this thing and I'm just going to add it to the to do list. But I don't reorganize the to do list and take some other things off, and then I burn myself out trying to do too much in too little time, or it just ends up not being a very good job that I

do, even if I kind of achieve the goal, it's not maybe really to the level that I would have liked, because I wasn't willing to recognize that I needed to reorganize my time and probably set some things aside, maybe even things that were important to Me. So there's that. What is it going to cost you in time?

What is and other things personally?

What is it going to cost in money? Yes, what is it virtually money? What is it going to cost you in energy? What is it going to cost you spiritually? How? How might this change you internally? Are you willing to let that change happen? And I love your example of you love so much having that

personal relationship that everyone has that of everyone that's gone through the skinny 60 program, and we have to acknowledge there may be some grief. There may be some grief in recognizing I really want to move toward this certain goal, but I'm going to feel sad about what I have to give up and allow

yourself those feelings and not and not do what we were just talking about a minute ago. I'm going to pursue the project as a way not to feel the feelings, because, yeah, at a certain point, if skinny 60 continues to grow, you just literally will not have the mental and emotional capacity to have a

personal relationship with every person that does the program. You probably won't even be able to remember everybody's name.

Well, also, then they won't get the high level of service and attention that they they need, you know, and that they're also the recognition that the there are other wonderful coaches out there, that it's not just me, it's not just me that can Shepherd people through this and guide people

through this. But what was coming up for me as you were speaking, was when I did the episode with Peter Hanrahan about the Enneagram. You know, I'm in Enneagram seven, he talked about how, for me, it's all about freedom, and I don't want there to be any limitations, so I am constantly

wanting to avoid pain. Pain and limitations, and so achievement is a way to avoid, you know, the pain and the limitations of life, because it proves to me that I am limitless. So being aware of this dynamic that's swirling around inside of me and that is affected by all these things we've been speaking

about, enables us to check in with ourselves and mindfully go, Well, okay, is this really, really, really what I want? Yeah, it's the whole thing about human interaction. You know, he's a constant source of fascination for me and you and I speak about this a lot, about giving ourselves permission to

be who we are,

yes, yes, and going along with that. I have a question for you, this idea of as an anagram seven, what you really crave and where you thrive isn't freedom. I'm I'm curious, is your big joy in the creation process, like, like the creation of skinny 60 or the creation of the blender girl and

writing her books. Or is there an or is there more joy, or the same amount of joy in the maintenance of what you have created? Or is there more joy in making it bigger? And the reason I ask that is because where there's ultimate freedom is from starting something because all the possibilities are there and

are open. And when you're trying to expand on something that already exists, there are some parameters already set by the existing framework that you have. And so for you, what brings more joy starting from scratch and having endless possibility or expanding something that already exists,

that that does have, like, I say, a little bit of of a framework that you still have to operate within? That might be a good question to ask yourself, or people who are like you?

Yeah, whoa, that that is such a rich place to dwell in that inquiry, because there's no doubt that I get fired up about building something from nothing. I have done it many, many, many times I've seen you and I love it, I love it, I love it, and I go right into the work and the hard

work and the process and watching it grow, and watering it and fertilizing it, and seeing other people participate in it, and all that sort of thing, the maintenance. Tell me more about what you mean by maintenance.

Well, I guess this would be more in the realm of what I was talking about, kind of staying where you are, but fine tuning within there, like that's my love. I enjoy building something up, but then I really enjoy kind of continuing to nurture and tinker with whatever the thing is that

I've created and kind of, you know, and be open to, maybe I'll make a little change here, maybe I'll make a little change there, but it's not even necessarily geared toward growth. It's just keeping it like we do with plants. We just want to keep them really healthy and thriving. You know, we're not

even necessarily wanting to create the biggest plant in our in our living room, but we want the plants that we have to be just really healthy and green and happy. I love that process.

Yeah. So this is where, yeah, thank you. Okay, thank you for for helping me see that more clearly. This is where you and I are different. Because for me, I go, Well, I've already grown that plant. That plants thriving. Okay, so what about the next plants? Just there, and I do maintain it. I do maintain

it, but not so well, I will say so. So I there is some joy there, to your question, but there is more joy in the creation of the new and the building something from nothing and the next frontier. You know, that's very much Enneagram seven, very much that way. And that feeds into that. That

proves to me that there are no limitations, that there can be the next thing and the next, Okay, the next thing.

So I'm going to take this back into resolutions, you know, like, let's say we have something that we want to do for self improvement, or what we were talking about, this idea of we we are in the belief that once we create something, it has to keep getting. And bigger and

better. So why would it be terrible to create something wonderful and then say, Okay, I'm on to the next plant. I'm going to let somebody else. I'm going to let somebody like Elizabeth tend to this plant because she loves that. She loves the tending, and she's not so her freedom comes from being

able to really offer that that maintenance type of energy, and it frees you up to go create the next thing, and that's where you can also put that energy up, I need to be bigger and better. And when it comes to resolutions like in the beginning of the year, maybe that's a question for anybody to ask themselves,

am I a person that loves creating from scratch, or am I someone who likes to take something that I kind of already have and fine tune it. And I'm going to use an example that I can think of. When I used to be a fitness consultant, a lot of people came into me and they were like, okay, just give me a

diet. Just give me a diet. New Page, new start. Print out a diet for me. I'll just follow it. Print out an exercise plan, I'll just follow it. And I learned for some people that's great. They're people that are like, I just want to start from scratch and build it me. But it didn't work for everybody,

because there was a resistance from people who kind of wanted to operate within the way they were already operating, and just kind of fine tune it, like maybe they were already a walker, but they knew they needed harder exercise, so they were willing to tinker around with their exercise routine and do a little

less walking and add in a little weight training. But if I had gone in and just printed them out a here's your cardio, here's your weight training, here's your food plan, they would have never done it, or they would have done it for a few weeks and then fallen up, fallen apart, and then blamed themselves for

not following what their trainer said to do, when really what their big joy was, was tinkering kind of with what they already have, or going very slow not doing this. That's another mistake that we make when we make New Year's resolutions, it's like, I'm hitting the gym January 2 for an hour a day. I'm

never eating sugar

again. I'm going from zero to 100 Exactly.

It's that all or nothing thinking, yes, that we can really get into that is really a kind of self sabotage, because it's so rigid. It's so rigid.

Elizabeth, this comes up all the time in my office hours. So many women say, Well, I'm an all or nothing person, and this is the source of why I don't stick with things, because if I'm not, I'm either all in or I'm all out. And if I'm not all in, and I don't do it 100% and I don't do

the hour at the gym every day like I said I was going to or hoped that I would, then you just give up, because you feel like a failure. You're embarrassed, you you know, you just, you just don't do it at all. So it's not good enough to just do 10 minutes and gradually go, Okay, I'm going to do a 10

minute walk because I've been sedentary. And then a week from now, I'll do a 15 minute walk, then a week from now, I'll gradually ramp up to 20 minutes and actually celebrating and acknowledging the progress. We want to go to perfection straight away.

Yeah, we do. And that's why what we're doing, even just in this particular conversation, is even getting underneath that self belief of, I'm an all or nothing person. My question would be, is that really true? Is that really true, or is that a particular belief about yourself that you

have adopted, and where did that come from? Because we don't pop out of the shoot saying, I'm an all or nothing person. And then, you know, from, from the moment we're born, that's how we live our lives. We learn these ways of being, yeah, we learn these ways of being, and that all or nothing mindset. And I'm not

saying it's it's wrong, you know, like it's a personally, sometimes I wish I had that amount.

Can I just tell you? Though, I don't think it's not sustainable. It's not and I don't think that the juice and the magic of life happens in the all or the nothing. Well, there's nothing. Is nothing, and I and we can't do it all today, so I don't and can't live in either one of those

places, right? And that's why I say, I think it's important to get underneath that. And first of all ask, where does that belief about yourself come from? What? What? What are the influences that may have caused you to believe that about yourself, and then the you. Why do you hold on

to that belief about yourself and like and exactly what you said, it's not sustainable. Why do you want to do that for to yourself? It's exactly to what I said about we're so mean to ourselves. We're so cruel in the way that we treat ourselves and the way that we tell ourselves it must be this way and it must

be all or nothing, and if we don't achieve perfection, then, then we're a complete failure. And you know, like like this, like the skin is shed, not all in one session. The snake takes a while to shed the skin because it has to grow a new one underneath while it's shedding the old one. So why would you

just rip the skin off and just start out, you know, maybe not even with a complete new skin and hurt yourself,

but to your point, we are expecting that we're only the skin. I know. What about the skeleton? What about all of the organs? What about all of the other bits of it, the skin, is only one piece of who we are,

only the out. It's only the exterior. Yes, the exterior, and that's why I'm saying, let's get underneath these exterior beliefs. I'm an all or nothing person, or I'm a person that doesn't do well with motivation or and then all the terrible things we tell each other, I'm a

failure, I'm this, I'm that. I should be, I should be, I should be all the shoulds that we are fed and that we internalize, and then go ahead and keep feeding to ourselves. That's why I asked you, if you're looking at at this time of year, you had some resolutions, or a resolution, it's not going the way you

wanted, or you've completely given it up, ask yourself, Is this really the way you were going about it? Is that really the most intrinsic way of going about it that's true to who you are?

And I think we define ourselves on who we were years ago, and we should keep being exactly that.

That's a really, really, really good, good, good point. And here's part of the all or nothing thinking. And I'll, I'll get personal here and admit this is and I might get a little emotional. This is a tough one for me. As you know, I used to be a dancer. I was a fitness

consultant for a long time, I've I've made a living on my body. I've always enjoyed having a body that just could do whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted, and after I had that injury from a car accident a decade ago, my body is not the same, and it has been really, really difficult for me to rebuild a consistent

exercise program, because it brings up a lot of grief, and it brings up comparison to what I used to be able to do when I was younger and more fit and not injured, and I can't. It's it's been a real challenging process for me to let go of that old vision of who I was in my body and what I was capable of, and

that's why I brought in the brief piece about when you're talking about setting a resolution, setting a goal, and we're looking at the cost of it and how it may impact you and others, we have to make room for it may bring up some some sadness.

It's such an important point that you're making the grief and celebration old and new started. They sit next to each other. They do. They're just opposite sides. There's a reason what pleasure and pain, there's a reason why we experience it in a similar way in the body, and

acknowledging that every yes has a bunch of no's attached to it. Yes, we can't say yes to everything. So what is the cost of saying yes? By saying yes, you have to say no to some other things, and you have to get really clear. Is that the yes that I want to be giving because there's only a finite amount of

yeses and an infinite amount of no's. And what is the I think often, and I can speak for myself, Oh, the cost of saying no feels really high to me a lot. I feel like a bad person. I feel like as a privileged person. I should just say yes to anything that's asked of me or I'm not being generous. You

know, those are the expectations that I put on myself, and then I have to catch myself. My friend cater said to me a long time ago that a compassionate yes is a gift for you and the other person. If you cannot give a full throated Yes, you owe it to the person to give them a no so that it frees them to go and get

a yes from the person that can give it to them. And the minute she said that to me, it changed everything for me and my relationship with no changed. Now. Do I still find it challenging at. Absolutely, do I do it a whole lot more? Yeah. So I'm getting more adept at exercising the muscle of being

more discerning about my yeses and my nose and more mindful about that. Do I get tripped up? Of course, I do. Which is why I go to therapies, which is why I speak to friends like you, and we interrogate this, and we come to, you know, I come to mindful decisions in consultation with others. That's the other piece

of this. I just want to acknowledge the co creation aspect of life that we think that we've got to figure it all out on our own, and if we haven't figured it out on our own and achieved it on our own, then we're a failure, right? There's something wrong with us. We're broken.

I think it's important to also talk about developing our goals and consultation with other people, perhaps the people that will be impacted, you know, like, like I said earlier, one of my faults in setting goals to do things is I simply add them on to the pile, you know, of things that I

already have going on to My life. I'm like you. I struggle to say no. I struggle to say, You know what, honey, to my husband, I'm going to be pursuing this goal, and it's going to require three hours a week that I'm just not going to be available for this other thing that we like to do

together. It's not going to be for forever, but I feel guilty asking for that, you know, or letting him know I'm just not going to be as available. So I'm like, No, I'll find the time somewhere else, and I'll keep doing the thing together that we that we like to do and that, and if so, of course, I end up not

having enough time. And so I also think what we worry about is being responsible for the other people's feelings if we say no, or if we decide that at least for time, we're going to prioritize a particular goal that we have. And again, let's go back to weight loss so exercise just I keep going back

to these because they're just the two most common, absolutely, resolutions. Well, if you're going to go to the gym, that's some time that you're not going to be at home. And if you live with a family or a partner, you're not going to be at home. And if you have children, it means maybe you need to get some

help and taking care of them, or you need to look for a gym that has childcare or something like that. But other people are going to be impacted, and they may not like it

well, also like it. To your point is that as women, as nurturers, most women, and I'm getting this anecdotally from skinny 60, they feel guilty spending time and attention and money and resources on themselves, they feel like they should be giving all of themselves to everybody else,

like literally, and the amount of women in our community that say this is the first time I've ever really taken care of me, given myself permission to focus on me and my own self care And what that brings up, the grief, to your point, the grief. And then there's all this, oh, I could have been feeling like

this all these years. I've wasted all these years, and I Oh, my God, you know the grief of that then comes up, and then we've got grief on top of grief, and then it layers in, and we have this tapestry of grief and and and again. I mean, we're we're always constellating around the I'm not enough,

aren't we? The I'm not enough, or I'm too much, which is the same

not enough. And New Year's resolutions fall completely in the I'm not enough camp, absolutely. And I think it's really important to ask ourselves, what makes me think that I need to do this thing to be better? Like, am I? Am I such a terrible person if I don't lose weight or go to the gym

every day or pursue this big goal at work or clean my entire house top to bottom and organize everything in bins. You know, that's another. The top three new year's resolutions are, organize your house, lose weight and start exercising. And it's like, you know, Am I really a terrible person if I don't

do those things, or I don't do them by a certain date, right? Or I

don't do them in a certain way, like we were talking about the all or nothing, thinking, you know, that I have to start out. It's like it's a new day, a new chapter. You know, the switch has flipped, and this is where I'm going. And that, again, goes back to this concept of fine

tuning. How about working within the parameters that you already are and you talked about it, you know, like people don't want to say 10 minutes on the treadmill is good enough. At least I did that. And again, that goes back to that critical voice in our head that tells us we're not enough. We're not doing enough.

It's not going to make a difference. So it's this endless chain of negativity that we just sort of. Ride that wave of negativity all the way down the chain, and then we end up at the end of March, going, yep, gave up my resolution. Oh, well, there's always next year.

Exactly, like, we don't go, Wait a second, there's nine months left. There's 10 months left. I mean, I got, oh well, actually, I've got the rest of my life. It's not just this year. Like, that's the other thing about like, oh, you know. And we just drop our bundle, and then the months roll

on, you know, and yeah,

and it's like, but now it's going to be April, and that's springtime, and that's renewal and rebirth. That's a perfect time, isn't it?

Just that, and the weather in anywhere in the world, for the most part, is, you know, is better.

And, yeah, I know, I know. And just that energy of we got through the wintertime, and now things are, you know, the weather is more temperate. The sun is out in the northern hemisphere. Things are starting to green up in your part of the world, things, you know, the heat is starting to

break, which always feels so good, that's a perfect time. That's why the ancient Babylonians and the Egyptians, it was all around work. We're planning the crops for the next year. That's when the new year,

actually, yeah, you know that that came up for me when you were talking about the evolution of this, that if we think about the New Year as that integrating, as that, checking in, as that, allowing that resting, that kind of gradually coming out of the cocoon again, you know, and just

allowing ourselves to to create the conditions with which to thrive for the rest of the year, as opposed to jumping off like a sprinter, off from the starting blocks and feeling like we've got to run our 100 meters, you know, in one day, and realizing that it's actually not a sprint, it's a marathon, absolutely.

And the reason they even did the New Year's rituals in the springtime is they will. What they were actually doing is they were putting prayers and intentions into the crop because they knew they weren't going to put the seed in the ground. And then tomorrow it's going to be a

stock. Yeah, it's not Jack and the Beanstalk, right, right? It's going to take, it's, you know, it's going to be again, slow and gradual. It's not all or nothing, thinking even ancient peoples recommend, you know, recognized the trap of all or nothing, thinking that it was important to start out, yes,

with this beautiful intention and sort of setting, the setting, the energy around the planting and then tending it and watching it grow fine tune. Does it need a little more water today? Do we need to do some weeding? All of that?

I love the tending, you know. And when we were at Kerry's circle, it was all about tending to your hearth, yeah, and tending to the half and and that there is such value in that process of just taking the next step, or not taking a step and resting, but that is taking the next step, if

you know what I mean. But it doesn't have to be that expansion, that movement, that that growth in in the respect of more.

In fact, I just had a little like download from the universe. What if we framed New Year's resolutions instead of saying things like I'm going to do? Who said I'm going to tend I'm going to tend to that. I'm going to tend to my weight, or I'm going to tend to my fitness level. I'm going to

tend my home, if we feel like I need to do a big clean out in an ordinance organization project, but if we put it in that context of tending and nurturing, what if our resolution is, I'm going to nurture myself. That's my resolution. And the areas that I'm going to nurture myself are these health concerns or these

organizational concerns or these money concerns, but putting it in that framework of, I'm planting a garden that I am going to tend, perfectly understanding that it's not going to be in full bloom for quite a while, and my job is, like you said, day after day, with a gentle tending,

and that there are weeds absolutely that there sometimes it, it the conditions are not what you think they're going to be.

Right exactly, exactly. And that's again, that helps move us away from this all or nothing thinking and this self critical talk, that I'm not good enough the way I am. I. That I have to go zero to 60, and if I don't do that, I'm going to be a failure. And part of the tending is I'm

going to take the time to make a plan and figure out the impacts on myself, on other people, the time, energy and money and perhaps new skills that I need to learn in order to tend to this new thing that I'm that I'm bringing forth. But if we looked at it that way, rather than a resolution, because a

resolution, just that word alone sounds like I feel feminine it and it also feels like you better do this or you're in trouble. Yes, and that goes back to, you know, like the Romans were brilliant at knowing population control by tying the New Year to pledging loyalty to the rulers for another year. You

know, kind of like you're not a good person if you're not willing to do that. And we've and we've kind of carried that internal message, like, I'm not a good person. If I don't make a resolution, I'm in trouble. I'm in big trouble if I don't do this thing and do it really well. And yet, a gardener

doesn't think that way. A gardener plants the seeds and tends and then pays attention to what does the garden need along the journey.

Look, gardening is a really beautiful metaphor for life. It really is. It teaches us patience and allowing teaches us resilience. Teaches us resourcing. It teaches us nourishing. You know, one of my favorite movies being there, the last movie Peter Sellers did with Chauncey gardener, you

know, using all those garden analogies, and then in the end, you know, he walks on water because he doesn't know that he can't, you know, and it's, it's just that such a it is such a beautiful metaphor. It I want to ask you about you know you. I know inside of you, you understand the dynamic of having

the pressure of feeling like you've got to do a thing. Somebody like me has that. But I struggle more with the monster, the feeling like the fact that I want more and I'm going to keep achieving more, that I'm greedy, that I can't be content, that I'm always looking for the next thing and achieving the next

thing, quite frankly, and then I feel guilty about that, that I actually should be refining and tending more. That's what's coming up for me as we're speaking. So what would you say to somebody like me? Just sit with that one minute.

Well, the first thing that comes to mind is, and this is going back to what we were talking about, how your, truthfully, your big love is in building something and in creating it. And then once it's created and built, you do love it, and you enjoy the the kind of the maintenance part of it,

but you are also aware to maybe grow it. You may not have the capacity to keep, keep it at the level that you want, in integrity. And what I actually have is this vision of Tess planting multiple gardens like she plants this garden, and this garden is all flowers. It's all a particular kind of flower. And

she plants it and nurtures it, and she knows every flower and its name and all its needs and all of that. And then it comes into bloom, and it's this amazing, beautiful flower garden. And she keeps it for a while, and then she starts thinking, I'd really like to plant peonies. This is a rose

garden, and I'm really having a craving to plant peonies. What is wrong with going and creating another garden, and that garden is peonies? There's nothing wrong with that. And and either letting the Rose Garden go back to the earth or turning it over to someone who would be happy to tend that rose garden as it is.

And so this monster of wanting more, I look at it as, and this is one of the things I love about you, and that I think is so beautiful, is I'm always waiting to see what's the next

garden. You always do. You always do come and tend to my garden. So I do,

I do. And like I said, that's something I actually really enjoy. Not be idle. I suspect I'm not an Enneagram. You are not, yeah,

I think I know what you are, but I wanted, I want you to go and talk to Pete, because I wait to unpack this with you, because I know Bo Beau just went and spoke to him, dying for you to know what you are, so that we can, we could talk about this, but yeah,

yes, and and we and we will. And so that monster, I think of that as, that's your fertility speaking, that's your desire for growth. That's that sacred creative spark. And again, it's easy to embrace a story of, I'm too much because I have all these desires. But the truth is, the

actual nature of desire, just pulling it, just pulling it out, just as an energy not even related to anything. Desire is insatiable. Yeah, it can never, ever be satisfied, ever. That's true of sexual desire. Erotic desire, meaning lust for life, not necessarily sexual union, but just the lust for life,

desire for connection with other people, desire to express who we are that is insatiable. It's just the nature of that particular energy. And so I think it's really important to just recognize that's a beautiful, beautiful energy, and we corrupt it by placing all these stories on it about it's

too much, or I'm not enough in the way that I'm pursuing my desire, I'm not expressing enough of my desire. You know, something like that. That's the that's the flip side of what you call your monster. There's people like me, like, right now I'm at a point in my life and I'm like, do I really want to

create a whole other career, and, you know, be a thing, and I'm just kind of sitting with that, but I do feel the pressure, both internally and externally, to continue and I, and it's not that I don't want to give to the world, but do I want to hang out a shingle and say, come and pay me, or height,

you know, or hire me to speak, or, you know, whatever. Why is it not enough to just be who I am in my family and friends and give to them out of the knowledge that I have?

What you're speaking about, though, is this balance that we're all holding all the time, which is the acknowledgement and the gratitude for who we are today, and recognizing and holding that exactly who we are right now is enough, and at the same time giving ourselves permission to

want more or want something else or want less of it or whatever it is, but to want change at the same time as acknowledging the state we're in nourishes us in many ways and is perhaps deficient also in many ways, that it's not all, it's not all or nothing. It's not one thing or another, it's both and and

that is the conundrum of life and how we hold it, that we do have to hold these, these seemingly opposing forces, which actually are complementary together. And the balance changes, and can change multiple times throughout the day, let alone, you know, different days or different weeks or different

seasons, and, you know, that's why we do the work. So that is why do the work, right?

Yeah, and for me, a big, a big, big part of my personal work is reframing, you know, reframing how I operate, reframing my perspective to put, to put it in a way that will help me thrive, rather than being mean to myself and being critical, because that's going to keep me small

and that's going to keep me in distress, and it's not very motivating. We like to believe, you know, we like to believe that the harder we are on ourselves, the more it's going to motivate us to be better, and that, you know, some tough, tough love is called for sometimes. But in general, I

just so I'm so caught up in this idea of tending. And let's take a look at like, let's look at a rose as it's growing. If we are a gardener, we don't think the rose is not enough or ugly when it's just, it's green bush, or we don't look at or, or, you know, think about, usually when we buy roses, they're in they're

not in full bloom.

Yeah, we want them the other way, because then we're going to get more out of them, right?

Exactly. There's something really enjoyable about watching that Rosebud slowly open. But we think the Rosebud is beautiful. Yeah, we're not. We're not sitting there going, Oh, these, this rosebud. In fact, there's, you know, hundreds of poems written to the rosebud, just as

there's hundreds of poems written to the rose in full bloom. And so it's this idea of tending. I love what you said about how can we find gratitude and appreciation for who we are right now, in this moment, despite whatever we or the outside world, is telling us might not be exactly the way it

could be, that maybe we haven't reached our full potential. Great. Okay, we're rosebud. So what does that rose bud need to continue to open. It needs, you know, if it's on the bush, it continues to need water, it continues to need sun. It may need some fertilizer. And if it's if it's a cut rose bud, it

needs to be an evasive water. The water needs to be clean. It needs to be changed regularly. It needs to be tended. As we watch that rose come out, you know, open to its full bloom. Yeah. And so I love this idea of an of a New Year's resolution put in the frame of what needs tending. What would I like to

tend within myself or about myself, and how can I do that? Because that brings an element of love rather than an element of punishment, because an

element of allowing to that. It can be a lot of different things, and I can take my time, and there's no time clock on it. And I would add, who do I want to be tending with, yeah. Who do I want to be in the garden with Yes, what do I want to be planting? What do I want to be feeding? What do we

what do I want to be paying attention to, and where do I want my energy to be expanding? Because whatever we're tending to is growing in some capacity. Whether we're thinking of it as expansion, it might be contraction, but both of them are

necessary Exactly, exactly. So, you know, as I just think about what you just said, and going back to the research that I did about, you know, how we, how we ended up having this tradition, this human tradition, of having news resolutions, a few, you know, a few 100 years ago, we started

moving more from the collective into the individual, and that it was, it was virtuous in and of itself, to improve yourself, just for its own sake, or for your own self benefit, not just for the benefit of the community, and then maybe, if it benefited the community, great, but the but the real focus was

on the individual. What if it was both and

apps, absolutely and going back to what we talked about in episode 65 with the the teachings of grandmother Moon is the impact of seven generations beyond, yeah, and that is a beautiful part of indigenous culture, is that they really do consider the impact.

They try to do things now today that that allow the current community to thrive, but create the conditions for thriving into the future. That's why in indigenous communities, well, what several years ago, you know, the whole what was the pipeline going through the Dakotas, they knew

it was going to create pollution in the water systems there that are very fragile, and they were thinking about if we, if we allow this extraction of resources now, it's going to impact the generations down the line, and we don't want to set up the future generations for failure. And so let's go back to

a New Year's resolution, and let's put this in the context of that like, like you just shared how so many women in your program say, Oh my God. You know, up until now, I've really struggled to take care of myself, and I still struggle with some guilt that I spent money on this program and I

spend time on it and all of that. But let's think about what are you modeling for the future generations? If you have children, you are modeling how to tend to your own thriving, and also the healthier you are, you can tend to their thriving in a much better way and be more present and more expansive

because you feel better about yourself, and that's going to translate into all of your inner. Actions with the children or anyone else that you are a caregiver for. So if that isn't a motivator, oh my gosh, it's like, oh, I'm setting my whole family up for success here in the way that I'm going to model

taking care of my health by learning to eat in a better way, I'm going to tend to my health, and in that tending, I am going to bloom into a healthier body and a person who feels better about herself, who is going to be a better mother, a better partner, a better friend, because I feel good inside and

out. That's beautiful,

yeah, yeah. It is a, it is a really beautiful invitation and a lovely way to frame the intention of attention.

Yes, because so often. And again, I saw this all the time in my fitness clients, their idea of coming to me, it was great that they sought out help, but their mindset was, I'm being punished because I let myself get out of shape or I let myself gain weight, My punishment is I have

to pay money to an expert to help me learn how to take care of this, and I have to spend all this time in the gym or preparing food or whatever we frame it as A punishment we failed, so we must be punished.

And the way that they frame it is I have to undo all the bad things that

I do, right, right, right, like I have to make restitution, yes, for my past. Yeah.

I love what you were saying before about acknowledging that there is grief in embracing the new. There is grief in the change. And it can be grief and celebration at the same time that you're grieving that, because this is what happens all the time in our program, is I

cannot believe I didn't know all this important stuff about health and nutrition and how great I could feel in my body when I was 20 and 30 and 40. I can't believe I'm coming to this in my 60s. Is what women always say, Yeah, but wow, isn't it great that you're here now, you're here now. This is so

great. What are we going to do with this? This is so amazing, and we can hold both at the same time, but if we stay in the grief and only the grief, then we can get stuck, and we can feel like I'm not enough. Well, if I didn't, if I don't do this program perfectly, then I'm just not going to do it at all. It's

the that that the I'm not enough feeds the all or nothing.

Oh yes, it does. It absolutely does. And I think, truthfully, it's, it's probably completely unconscious, buried in the subconscious. But I think a lot of why people either don't pursue something that they that they know probably would be good for them, like, let's say they do have a

health challenge, and they probably do need to learn to eat better, or something like that. It's like, we subconsciously know it's going to bring up some difficult feelings, and so we'd rather just not even pursue the goal, because we don't want to have to deal with the feelings. And that's part of the tending

is setting up a support system in advance, or like, I'll be honest, I had to, I had to get some therapy to deal with the grief about just around the loss of what my body could do. And so many people are like, Elizabeth, you look great. You still can do you know, all this stuff, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, it's

like, Yeah, but you're not in the body that I'm in, and you don't know what it felt like before. And but I took that in. I took that in for a long time, and didn't allow myself my grief. Yeah, I didn't allow myself to really feel the loss of the physical abilities that I used to have. And that is true

for all that's true for all of us as we age. It's coming for all of us. In fact, I had a very dear friend when, when I was really in the throes of dealing, you know, with with my injury and and he said, Well, this is really good practice for being elderly, but

it brings up that point about practice, though, yeah, doesn't it that that life is a practice, it is a practice, and we're just we're practicing every day. We're not perfecting, we're practicing. And we get to practice and practice and practice some more. And so that's why I love the living,

choosing to live in the I get tos, as opposed to the I should. I want to live in the I want tos, and I get. To I get to figure this out a little bit more today, I get to practice a little bit more today, I get to try that in a little bit of a different way today. And the process and deliberately placing

ourselves in curiosity is is really constructive and really helpful, or at least I find it very, very helpful in my own life and with the people that I coach is choosing to be in that state, and when we find ourselves not in that state, inviting ourselves back into that state.

Yeah, I you know what Tess I love that you know, just thinking about what you said about so many of the women in your program being down on themselves. Why didn't I do this before? Why didn't I know about this before? Well, let's process the feelings about that. Let's integrate, let's

metabolize those feelings and let them become integrated. Because until that's done, they're going to kind of stay alive and they're going to keep chattering in our heads, but, and then I love that framing of but today, skinny 60 exists, and I found it, and it's amazing. And so I'm going to be like,

yay. Yeah, my Rosebud is getting watered.

Yes, we're going to gonna be watching Citizen Kane a whole lot differently now,

exactly, if

we think about where Rosebud actually came from with regards to that, oh, just makes me laugh. Oh, gosh. I mean, I you and I will continue our conversation about this, and I will have you on the podcast again to continue our exploration of this. You know, we speak all the time, and dear

listener, I will invite you into more conversations with Elizabeth. I know I asked you this question that I close every episode with when we were talking about the grandmother moon, but I'm really interested in how you would answer it within the context of this conversation, which is, when we

have a dream, we have a desire, whatever word we want to put on it. We have something we want, something we want, and some bit of change that we want to happen in our lives, but we don't feel like we have what it takes to make it happen, or we don't feel like we deserve it, which is another way of saying it. What

would you offer to us?

Well, I can only offer my own experience with that,

but what has been really helpful is to do what we've done in this conversation. Let's get underneath this belief that I don't have what it takes, or that I don't deserve the thing. And let's ask a lot of questions about what is going on there. Why do I believe this? Where did this come from? Is this really

my belief? Is this a belief that was put on me? What is so terrible about myself as I am? That's something I'm really, really training myself to embrace, especially at this phase in my life, is I'm more interested in expanding on what is amazing about me, instead of focusing all the time on what I

think are my faults or my failures and fixing myself, because all of us, you know, most of who we are is amazing and wonderful, and we spend so much time focusing just on the small percentage of who we are that, Yes, maybe has some faults, has some wounds, has some hurt feelings, or, you

know, whatever it is, and we spend all our time focusing on that and trying to fix that, instead of tending and nurturing all of the amazing qualities that we have. And to me, that also feeds that cycle of negativity. It's like we forget almost how amazing we are, and we only identify with the darker

parts of ourselves, or the parts of ourselves that we think are broken in some way. So my first go to if I find myself feeling somehow like I know this isn't for me, this, I can't do it or or getting into that, well, I should do this because I need to make up for something that I failed at. You know that

restitution piece? I start going, Nope, let's let's step back. Let's step back and ask a lot of questions. And sometimes I. You know, in the past, that has come up as, Wow, I think I need some therapy. Yeah, there's some stuff there that I see it, but I don't know how to untangle it on my own. And I need some

support. I need a community that's going to help me with that, or I need to go to a retreat or do a workshop, or read some books or, you know, whatever it is. So that's the first piece. Let's just kind of untangle this knot first, and then the second piece is it kind of goes along with what I was

saying about desire, particularly in Western culture and all its influences, religious influence, about desire as something unsavory, you know, is is again, allowing myself to say thank you for sharing, and just really sit like, maybe in Meditation, journaling, just quiet space,

like, where is that desire? Let just kind of tend that tend the desire, feed it. Allow myself to imagine, what would it be like if I really allowed that desire to be the fuel and the motivation for the thing that that I would like, and if I can't find that desire, then, right there, that's a message,

maybe this thing that I think I want isn't for me.

Yes, befriending the desire without desire, there is death. Yeah. I mean, we have to have the desire, and it has to be potent. And to your point, if it isn't, then you don't want it. Actually, it's somebody else.

Your desire always has an object that it's going toward. Desire is not something that's that is running away from, something that's that I think that's really important, because, like we talked about, we think we desire something, but what we're really doing is we're pursuing it in order to

avoid something over here, to run away from something. And true desire is always, it's always got an object that it's pursuing, that it that it wants. It doesn't care about what happened in the past. It's only like, oh, there's, there's that, there's that that out there on the horizon, and if and and that

has really helped me, particularly, I would say in the last few years to recognize, you know, I may want this thing, but do I really desire it? And if I can't, if I can't find it, is if I can't really find the juice, which is, you know, in in it, and the desire, that's why I say I'm not making any big moves

after, you know, retiring from my old career and getting some training in a new field, I'm not in any rush to create A whole new career for myself because I haven't tapped into, I haven't found what is my desire pointing to?

Yeah, it's such an important distinction that you're bringing up, and this, this notion of I won't have what it takes to meet the moment if, if I determine that the desire really is there for this thing? So what holds us back from taking action on it? If we do determine that we really do

desire it, and that is the object, that is the thing that our superpowers, the things that we're really good at, can transfer over to anything that we can do we can leverage who we are now to become these other things or this other piece. And so as you're talking about tending, which I absolutely

love, and I'm going to run with it, like so many other things that you've given me, I'm going to run with this offer. What's coming up for me as well is this idea of exploration that we're as we tend, we're exploring and we're nurturing and nourishing. So when someone says, oh, I can't believe I Why didn't I

know this sooner? I can't believe I've got to undo this or this shame and the guilt or the grief that comes with not knowing what you didn't know before. You know which we all think we should know what we don't know. You know, which is just this, this thing that we all do to ourselves. We can't

know until you know. And it comes, I think things come to us at exactly the moment when we're ready for them to come to us. And so what I say to people you know during our office hours is, oh, we're actually not what about if, with you, we think about it. We're not fixing ourselves. We're just exploring

other parts of ourselves, and we're paying attention to some parts that maybe we weren't paying attention to before. And that's the beautiful thing about the human body with health, it's crying out with little niggly symptoms. It whispers, then it starts to cry out, then it starts to scream, and then it

takes us down. Down if we still continue not to listen. So what you're speaking about is just that real intentional process of listening,

yeah, yeah. And going back to the tending and the gardening. I myself am not a big gardener, but I had a grandmother who was and one of the things that I loved doing with her was just observing how she tended her, particularly her flowers. And she would experiment like she would even

say, I got this new fertilizer, and I'm going to see how it does. So like you said, exploring and experimenting. Instead of feeling like we need, we need to have the answer right from the get go, and then apply that answer, apply that solution. Let's explore and experiment and see and just kind

of see where it where it goes. I mean, I know you do that in your skinny 60, because people have to find, you know, how much food do I really need? What is, what is my balance of nutrients that my body needs? How do I respond to this is the way I also worked with my fitness clients was, you know, until we get in there, we

don't really know. I have a basic framework that I can, you know, I can offer to you that I can recommend, but we're going to fine tune within that. Because we can't, we can't predict exactly how your body is going to respond to this form of exercise or this form of eating or the timing, you know,

whatever it was, it was an exploration together, yes, and that's where the community came in. Sometimes the feelings that come up, if, you know, if we're feeling really stuck, and we decide, gosh, I think I need some support here, that support is actually a form of exploration. That's what therapy

is about. Yes, exploration,

yes and and also holding the destination or what we perceive as the end point. Because, I mean, when we get to the end point, we realize it's not the end point. I mean, that's the whole point, right? And the end in this physical body is death, right? Or none of us are in any hurry to get

there. So this idea that, yes, we've got our goal, we set our goal, this thing that we want, and we think like we it's like we get in the car with the GPS, but then we get up and we see all this construction there. Okay, we've got to sort of change our course. We've got to change our we get to change our

minds. We get to change the approach within the plan. Or we get to change the plan and we can still get to the same

place, right? Or we can decide, you know, what that destination is too much trouble to

get, yeah, don't want to go there anymore,

and that, and that's part of the exploration and experimentation is depending on what, especially with lifestyle changes, because those are something that are hopefully going to go on for the rest of your life, maybe with some modifications, But you're trying to make a kind of a

permanent change in how you live your life. You may also decide, you know, I'm not going to do that piece of it anymore. It just doesn't work for me anymore, or I just don't like it. You know, you're allowed to just say you're this

is something I say all the time in skinny city. You're allowed to change course. You're allowed to say, this isn't for me. You're allowed to change your mind. You're allowed to take your chips off the table and go, it does not have to be me like so we can get to the destination and go, I actually

don't want to stay here. I don't even want to spend one night here. I want to go over to that town, you know. I actually want to turn my car around and go home, you know. And we're allowed to do that, and we don't give ourselves permission. So again,

we don't, we don't, and I don't want to get into, you know, we also need to be careful that we don't too easily give ourselves permission, you know, we need to interrogate the obstacles that we're throwing up right from the get go. But that's why, in answer to your question to me,

as I said, the first thing I do is I kind of say, Okay, let's pull back a little bit here, and let's ask a lot of questions about what I really have going on inside me, because they're creating some obstacles, and maybe they're maybe I need to deal with some obstacles first before I can really tap into the

truth of this desire, if, if that, if that's there. So, so, yeah, it's like you set the GPS, but you also make sure there's gas in the car, and if it's a cold day, you have a coat on, and maybe you have some water and a snack, and you know, all the things. And then, as you're going along, and you run into

all the construction, you get to say, That's okay. I can deal with a delay, or I'll just reroute. Or you can say, You know what this construction is, it's not worth it, and I'm going to turn around and go home. But you've at least eliminated all the obstacles that you have. Control over before you started

pursuing the destination.

I mean, I think that's a key point, isn't it? We do want to set ourselves up for success, whatever that looks like or said differently, we want to set ourselves up for an exploration and attending to that serves us.

Yeah, yeah. And so what do we need on on that journey? And that's why I say this, all or nothing. You know, I'm going to hit the gym. I'm going to never eat sugar again. I'm just going to follow the diet that somebody put on the internet. And, you know, see how that works. That's not

really preparation for exploration, and it's not really taking a look at what obstacles might be in the way already of me pursuing this. And let's, let's tend to those before we set off on our journey. Like, we don't go on vacation and just like, shut the door to our house and say, Bye, we're like, No, we

find somebody to water the plants and we, you know, we we empty out the fridge so that everything isn't just, you know, rotten by the time we get home, we pack a bag so that we have things with that we need. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. We remove the obstacles to a homecoming that could be

potentially disaster, and we remove the obstacles to us not having what we need while we're on vacation.

Yeah, or said differently. We work with them, yeah, we acknowledge they're there, and we decide, do I want to work with them, or do I want to go? No, thank you. Not for me. Yeah. So you know, there's always going to be obstacles. Oh, gosh, Elizabeth, I could talk to you about this all day

long. And you and I, we're used to having seven hour conversations about things, so writing this year into something that's less than two hours is, is, is, feels limiting to me as a seven

Well, guess what? We'll, we will put this particular segment in the can, and we'll start another one. We will,

you're right, you're right. We've planted these, these, this flower, and then when we're going to go over and we're going to plant it another, another flower. So I will invite you into into my next garden, and we'll, we'll create together, and we'll tend, we'll tend to that together. So

thank you for for how you show up in the world. I love you, love

you, love you, love you. Well, thank you, Tess, and I love you so much. And thank you for all that you bring to me and to the world. It's always such a gift. I just, I just love you so much.