What if true financial freedom isn’t about chasing more, but about choosing better? In this episode of Seek Go Create, host Tim Winders sits down with Dr. Nicholas Michels—former pro basketball player, faith-filled leader, and author of "Rich by Choice." From a childhood shaken by sudden loss to building wealth rooted in faith and values, Dr. Michels shares his journey and the power of aligning money with what matters most. Discover how purpose, clarity, and intentional choices can change your life and legacy. If you’re ready to rethink money and leadership, this conversation is for you.

"Align your money with what’s most important—true happiness comes from that." - Dr. Nicholas Michels

Access all show and episode resources HERE

About Our Guest:

Dr. Nicholas Michels is an elite wealth strategist, author of the book Rich by Choice, and a former professional basketball player. From growing up in a trailer park to turning down an $8 million deal to preserve his core values, Dr. Michels brings a unique, purpose-driven perspective to financial leadership. He is a trusted advisor who helps families build wealth with clarity and peace, not pressure. Driven by his deep faith and commitment to integrity, he’s passionate about empowering others to achieve not just financial abundance, but true richness in all areas of life.

Reasons to Listen:

1. Uncover the true meaning of financial freedom—Dr. Nicholas Michels shares why aligning your money with your values leads to happiness, drawing from his own dramatic life story and professional experience.
2. Gain actionable strategies to build wealth with peace, not pressure—Learn practical tips and family-tested exercises to achieve “richness” in both finances and life, including how Dr. Michels and his wife overcame money challenges together.
3. Get a behind-the-scenes look at leading with faith and purpose—Hear how faith, resilience, and intentional choices helped Dr. Michels rise from hardship to success, and why financial clarity is a vital form of leadership everyone should embrace.

Episode Resources & Action Steps:

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

1. Book: "Rich by Choice" by Dr. Nicholas Michels: Dr. Michels’ book focuses on aligning money with personal values, creating wealth with purpose, and finding true happiness through intentional financial choices. (Free gift and additional resources available)
2. Website: RichByChoiceBook.com: The official website for Dr. Michels' book, offering free chapters, compounding resources, and options for further learning and connecting with Dr. Michels.
3. Marriage and Money Devotionals/Books (John Gottman’s resources mentioned): Dr. Michels referenced using marriage devotionals and John Gottman’s books to foster better communication and connection around finances with his spouse.

Action Steps for Listeners

1. Create a Family Vision Statement: Sit down with your partner or family and write out detailed visions for your life—including financial goals, experiences, and the values you want to prioritize. Share and discuss to align on a common vision.
2. Intentionally Schedule Financial Check-ins: Set regular times to communicate about money with open-ended, honest questions. Use resources or devotionals (such as those by John Gottman) to guide your conversations and strengthen the partnership.
3. Download and Apply the Compounding Resource: Visit richbychoicebook.com, claim the free chapter on compounding, and start implementing those principles not just with your money but in other areas of your life (marriage, faith, business, health, etc.).

Key Lessons:

1. True Wealth Is More Than Money: Dr. Michels emphasizes that while financial success is important, being truly “rich” involves faith, strong relationships, meaningful experiences, and protecting your loved ones—financial peace matters more than just aiming for more possessions.
2. Align Your Finances with What Matters Most: Rather than simply chasing more, Dr. Michels encourages listeners to intentionally use money as a tool to support what you value most: your family, your purpose, and your future security.
3. You Always Have a Choice—Design Your Life on Purpose: The concept at the heart of the episode (and his book “Rich by Choice”) is that we can proactively shape our lives and our financial futures through the choices we make, instead of drifting through life by default.
4. Faith and Community as Anchors During Challenges: Dr. Michels’ personal story shows how his family’s faith and involvement in their church community provided resilience and perspective during tough times—illustrating the power of spiritual grounding for both life and finances.
5. Intentional Communication Creates Stronger Relationships: Whether it’s marriage, parenting, or working with clients, open and honest conversations—especially about hard topics like money—are essential. Vision statements, regular check-ins, and shared goals lead to greater unity and success.

Episode Highlights:

00:00 Introduction to Financial Freedom

00:30 Meet Dr. Nicholas E. Michaels

02:14 Nick's Childhood and Family Struggles

03:02 The Impact of Divorce on Nick's Life

04:25 Nick's Journey to Financial Clarity

08:31 The Role of Faith in Nick's Life

13:05 Nick's College Years and Basketball Career

16:55 Finding Purpose Beyond Money

24:42 The Importance of Choosing the Right Spouse

29:05 Challenges of Faith and Money

30:27 Balancing Marriage and Financial Goals

31:10 The Importance of Communication in Marriage

31:54 Marriage Devotionals and Counseling

34:55 Family Foundation and Giving Back

37:39 The Illusion of Control and Faith

41:01 Rich by Choice: The Book's Purpose

45:33 Common Financial Mistakes and Success Stories

48:39 Proven Principles for Financial Success

53:01 Final Thoughts and Resources

Resources for Leaders from Tim Winders & SGC:

🎙 Unlock Leadership Excellence with Tim

• Transform your leadership and align your career with your deepest values. Schedule your Free Discovery Call now to explore how you can reach new heights in personal and professional growth. Limited slots available each month – Book your session today!

📚 Redefine Your Success with "Coach: A Story of Success Redefined"

• Challenge your perceptions and embark on a journey toward true fulfillment. Dive into transformative insights with "Coach: A Story of Success Redefined." This book will help you rethink what success means and how to achieve it on your terms. Don't miss out on this essential read—order your copy today!

Thank you for listening to Seek Go Create!

Our podcast is dedicated to empowering Christian leaders, entrepreneurs, and individuals looking to redefine success in their personal and professional lives. Through in-depth interviews, personal anecdotes, and expert advice, we offer valuable insights and actionable strategies for achieving your goals and living a life of purpose and fulfillment.

If you enjoyed this episode and found it helpful, we encourage you to subscribe to or follow Seek Go Create on your favorite podcast platform, including Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. By subscribing, you'll never miss an episode and can stay up-to-date on the latest insights and strategies for success.

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Mentioned in this episode:

A Final Challenge: Redefine Success with Coach

Before you sign off, here’s a powerful invitation from Tim: If you’ve been inspired by the stories on Seek Go Create, take the next step with his novel, Coach: A Story of Success Redefined. It’s a transformative journey that invites leaders to rethink success and align their lives with faith, purpose, and peace. Get your copy today at TimWinders.com.

Get More Info About Coach

Redefine Success with Coach – A Novel That Transforms

Feeling the pressure to chase more, yet still wondering, “Is this it?” You're not alone—and you're not without hope. In this brief pause, Tim Winders introduces Coach: A Story of Success Redefined, a transformational novel that challenges the world’s definition of success and offers something deeper. Ready for a wake-up call that inspires faith, purpose, and lasting change? Grab your copy now at TimWinders.com and start the journey today.

Get More Info About Coach

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

2

And we have a choice.

3

And it's aligning your money

with what's most important.

4

You understand who's important,

what's important, and then using your

5

money to to, to align with that.

6

That's where true happiness comes in.

7

Tim Winders: What if financial

freedom isn't about chasing

8

more but choosing better?

9

In today's episode of Seek Go

Create the Leadership journey.

10

I sit down with Dr.

11

Nicholas e Michaels, author of Rich

by Choice, elite wealth strategist,

12

and former professional basketball

player from growing up in a trailer

13

park to turning down an $8 million

deal to preserve his values.

14

Nick's story is one of grit, faith,

and purpose-driven leadership.

15

We'll explore how he helps families

build wealth with peace, not pressure,

16

and why financial clarity is one of

the most powerful forms of leadership.

17

Let's dive in.

18

Dr.

19

Nicholas e.

20

Michaels welcome to Seek Go Create.

21

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

22

Hey, thank you.

23

I'm glad to be here.

24

I'm glad to discuss critical elements of

success not just with money but in life.

25

So thank you.

26

Tim Winders: Yeah, we're gonna have fun.

27

for those that are watching, for those

listening in, you can't see this,

28

but he's got two monitors behind him,

his book and shelves, and you got

29

financial charts going, man, you've,

you've got things going on there.

30

Man, that looks good.

31

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

32

I could

33

Tim Winders: behind.

34

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

35

I, every, all this is

designed by somebody else.

36

I know.

37

my goodness.

38

My office too.

39

My wife and our team, they run the show.

40

Tim Winders: I, I'm the same way.

41

I'm in my studio in the corporate

house I stay in when I come to Atlanta

42

and I'm more used to being in my rv.

43

That's where 300 or so, out of our

330 something episodes were recorded.

44

I'm either in the passenger seat or there,

so little bit out of outta sorts here,

45

but I believe we're gonna make it work.

46

It's gonna be a fun conversation.

47

So let's dive in.

48

First question, would you rather

answer what do you do or who are you?

49

Pick it and start answering.

50

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

51

Absolutely.

52

You know, I would, I would.

53

Dive into who am I?

54

you know, and really understand who am I?

55

You, you understand my past.

56

I mean, I wanna take you

back to, to my childhood.

57

That's where it all started.

58

And I mean, Tim, have you ever

had one of those moments that

59

completely changed your life?

60

you know, I was 10 years old.

61

summer of 1996.

62

I was a middle of four

wild and active boys.

63

I mean, it was fun.

64

My dad was an entrepreneur,

owned several businesses.

65

My mom stay-at-home, mom.

66

I mean, we were blessed.

67

We were lucky, to be honest with you.

68

I didn't even know what money was.

69

I just knew, hey, things were good.

70

we had a good life.

71

But then it happened, and I

remember it like it was yesterday.

72

I mean, I was in my room, I had my

room filled with sports posters,

73

baseball cards, and ES, ESPN on the tv.

74

And my mom walked in and, you know,

she looks worried and she puts her

75

arm around me and she says, your

dad and I are getting divorced.

76

And you know, Tim, those

words shattered my childhood.

77

because it seemed like overnight my

mom went from a stay at home mom of

78

four boys to a single mom of four boys

working three jobs just to survive.

79

And things weren't great for my dad.

80

He struggled.

81

I mean, as you can imagine,

our entire lives changed.

82

security vanished, disappeared.

83

Any type of certainty, collapsed.

84

It was at a very early age that

I quickly realized how much money

85

greatly influences your life.

86

And you have a choice

either for good for bad.

87

I mean, that we had a big

house to a small house.

88

I mean that, that good life I was telling

you about, like, I just realized the good

89

life to my mom saying things like, Hey,

go get all loose change of money around

90

the house 'cause we're gonna need it.

91

And, this is why I love being

here today, because it wasn't

92

the stuff that hurt the most.

93

it really wasn't, it

wasn't the important thing.

94

what hurt the most.

95

Was watching the physical and

emotional pain and toll that it

96

took on my mom and my brothers.

97

And, you know, to understand who I

am, you understand why I do what I do

98

because like, you know, I care about you.

99

I don't want you or any member of your

family to have to go through that.

100

'cause we lived it.

101

And, you know, it lit a fire in me.

102

I wanted to read everything,

to understand everything.

103

That way I could build, I

could grow and I could protect.

104

And so, um, w you know,

understand why do I do and who I

105

am is, yes, I'm a man of faith.

106

I'm a father, I'm a husband,

and I really enjoy helping

107

people become rich with money.

108

But I get more excited

about, other riches in life.

109

Whether it be faith and relationships,

creating exciting experiences with

110

loved ones, but then also protecting

those riches to where no matter what

111

happens in this world, 'cause this

world gets crazy from time to time,

112

that you can have confidence in your

future, but it's even more fulfilling

113

is confidence in your family's future.

114

Tim Winders: Hmm.

115

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

116

that would be my answer

117

Tim Winders: Well what's interesting,

yeah, and there's a lot there.

118

'cause I'm gonna, I wanna dig

into some of those things.

119

you know, the first thing that popped in

my head when you were saying that, I think

120

you mentioned you were the middle child.

121

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

122

Mm-hmm.

123

Tim Winders: And I, I'm always intrigued.

124

First of all, the background stories

are powerful because I think most people

125

can point to some event in life that is

impacted and it's very crystal clear.

126

You said 1996, you were 10 years old.

127

you remembered where you are.

128

You probably remember the smells

in the room and the feeling

129

you had and things like that.

130

10 years old is a pretty

interesting time for us too.

131

you don't have to go through

all that went through them, but

132

I'm curious about your siblings.

133

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

134

Mm-hmm.

135

Tim Winders: What you, you were probably

concerned about yourself during that time.

136

I'm not saying you were selfish, but

you were self preserving, but tell

137

me a little bit about how their lives

have unfolded with what you can,

138

because I'm curious about how same

situation, same thing that went on.

139

Different people respond

in different ways.

140

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

141

A absolutely.

142

I was the middle youngest.

143

So I was third in line.

144

And to be honest, what I remember,

it's just shock, there's nothing

145

wrong with different levels

of wealth on where you live.

146

I have a buddy, he goes to Africa

and he has a mission trip there.

147

It's a wonderful experience.

148

And he said the kids, there are the

happiest go lucky kids in the world.

149

you just bring a soccer ball or anything.

150

they're so happy 'cause they

don't know what they don't know.

151

Tim Winders: I.

152

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

153

But when you go from a certain

level and then it seems like

154

overnight in a different lifestyle,

then you quickly realize of.

155

You know, a what you had and

then what you don't have.

156

And so I think the, the

real emotion was, was shock.

157

But I'll say this, my brothers

are extraordinary men.

158

You could say I'm the

weekly in the family.

159

I really mean that.

160

They're great husbands,

they're great fathers.

161

They're present.

162

They're trying, I mean, really, I mean,

they, it's actually a very, and I told my

163

mom all the time, like, you know, and, and

I get to tell my mom this all the time.

164

She's my, she's a client,

she's my favorite client.

165

and I love all of my clients that I

work with 'cause they're like family.

166

But, you know, special is knowing what

my mom went through to go, I can say,

167

Hey mom, you never have to worry again.

168

You know how special that is.

169

But her greatest asset is that she's

got four boys, all have degrees, all

170

are successful, never been divorced.

171

great father's like, it's amazing.

172

And.

173

asked her how she did it, and she leaves

off with, you know, Nick, a lot of prayer.

174

I was thinking all the four rowdy boys

you can imagine, she's my mom's tough.

175

so talking about how my brothers

responded, it's incredible.

176

they really are.

177

to be honest with you, I wrote a book

about money and finance and life.

178

I'm still trying to figure out the

secret sauce to how my mom went.

179

Four for four.

180

I really, and I don't have that answer.

181

I don't, except for God.

182

And, know,

183

Tim Winders: Yeah,

184

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

185

mother's

186

Tim Winders: I mean, because that's the

most intriguing, not the most intriguing

187

thing, but I think that if we could

peel away that secret, let's just be

188

truthful here many times when there's

that situation, you know, you're 10 years

189

old, I'm guessing you had a couple that

were older, so probably, you know, 12,

190

14, 16 years old, something like that,

191

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

192

Yes,

193

Tim Winders: you know,

194

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

195

Mm-hmm.

196

Tim Winders: All kind of critical ages

in development and for all of them

197

to be functioning and for nobody to

kind of rebel and say, you know what,

198

I'm, I'm just ticked at the world.

199

Or, you know, relationships become

a challenge and all of that.

200

That's, that's quite miraculous.

201

Tell me more about your mother.

202

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

203

Yo.

204

Yeah, she, she's tough.

205

I mean, but you know, and I think I see

this and even having more appreciation

206

because I'm a father, I have four

kiddos, and, and I'm super fortunate.

207

There is zero chance.

208

I mean, I pray this never happens

to be a single parent, like my

209

heart and hat go off to single

parents all around the world.

210

Like what you do.

211

If you're a single parent

listening right now or watching

212

God bless you, you're incredible.

213

Like, I really mean this all my heart.

214

I don't know how you do it.

215

It's amazing.

216

'cause I appreciate my mom even more

now that I'm older with the family.

217

I don't, I don't know what I would do.

218

I mean it's amazing.

219

it all turned out good, but

it doesn't mean that there

220

weren't bumps along the way.

221

I saw my brothers change and go

through some struggles afterwards,

222

whether it be confidence in who they

are, their identity, trying to, find

223

out, because that's tough on a kid

when you can wear certain clothes and

224

have a certain lifestyle to now not,

I mean, I'm not saying it's right

225

or wrong, but that impacts a kid's

psyche of confidence and where they

226

fit in, and having to overcome that.

227

so it absolutely went through

our struggles and hardships.

228

But I'm telling you what, As of

right now, it's a success story.

229

I really mean it.

230

I am the weak link between the four boys.

231

my brothers, they're good dudes.

232

Tim Winders: so you mentioned prayer.

233

So what was the faith, what was the

faith component like in the household?

234

And, when there's a divorce and, and

I believe, were you in the south,

235

were you in the Texas area growing up?

236

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

237

Mm-hmm.

238

Tim Winders: You know, sometimes when

there's divorce situations in the

239

Bible belt, there's quite a bit of,

let's just go and say judgment that

240

can be thrown on, thrown on people.

241

I mean, did, was there an

ostracize ostracization or be,

242

were y'all ostracized put out?

243

You know what I mean?

244

What, what was that like,

uh, coming along too?

245

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

246

that is a really good question.

247

In fact, I should have brought

this up, piggyback on what you're

248

saying is I really didn't see the

statistics of divorced children

249

until about seven years ago.

250

And you hit the nail on the head

earlier, like when it comes to

251

alcohol abuse, drugs, things

like that of divorced, kiddos.

252

It was eye-popping like you talked about.

253

We, you know, and so you're right

for, to, to go through that.

254

but no, I wouldn't say, and you

know, again, I was 10 years old, so

255

there's probably a lot that I didn't

see that maybe my mother hid from

256

me or protected, sheltered us from.

257

but there were, you know, a, a little

bit of that, but also too, it could have

258

been a thing like we didn't have the

finances to do some of the things and be

259

involved into the things that we used to.

260

So it could have been a mixed bag of

a lot of what you're talking about.

261

But also too, when life changes like

that, you know, your Wednesday evenings,

262

your Saturday evenings, your quote

unquote family gatherings get togethers.

263

They completely change.

264

Tim Winders: so was, y'all

involved with a church or faith?

265

Community at all.

266

what was that like?

267

I'm trying to understand what happened

with 10-year-old, Nick, that then later

268

led him to the financial success and

also the financial teaching and all.

269

Because I, I, I think, and

we'll, we'll get into your

270

relationship with money shortly.

271

I think later we're gonna have a

fun conversation just about faith

272

and money and things like that.

273

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

274

Mm-hmm.

275

Tim Winders: what was your recollection

of, faith or God or anything like that?

276

Because it's easy for that to be

impacted when you go through that.

277

The times that you did.

278

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

279

I would absolutely say that absolutely

a huge factor in us boys turning

280

out well, because my mom did a

wonderful job of keeping us active

281

in the church, constantly Wednesdays,

Sundays, youth groups, mission trips.

282

I remember going on a couple mission trips

that really, kept things in perspective.

283

'cause even though we were going

through a tough time when you go

284

different places around the world,

we were still incredibly blessed.

285

if you live in the United States

of America today, I know that

286

nothing's perfect, but we're lucky.

287

look at different places around the world.

288

And so I think my mom keeping

us active in the church and

289

surrounding us with, good pillars of

strength really helped us as well.

290

Tim Winders: Yeah, that's good.

291

And then all that starts feeding

into who you become and who you are.

292

So, I wanna connect a little bit of a

293

timeframe because, you know, I read your

book over the weekend, rich by Choice.

294

And so let's go back to that 10-year-old

and what were the seeds in 10-year-old

295

Nick that was going to lead you later

to write a book that had the word

296

rich in it and that had financial,

principles, tips, and things like that.

297

What can we find out from that 10-year-old

that was the beginnings of that?

298

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

299

Absolutely.

300

if you look on from 10-year-old to,

as Nick evolved and grew, I'd say

301

there's a couple of key elements.

302

One was, you know, sports, and we

might get into a little more that

303

way, but I mean, that was my escape.

304

I mean, basketball was my escape.

305

and when you're playing a sport

that happens fast, you don't have

306

time to think, you just react.

307

And so anything that you're dealing

with off the court was a wonderful way.

308

But also it taught me,

dedication, work ethic.

309

But we also had to have jobs growing up

when we were kids, which was wonderful.

310

Like, I'd be up, working out in the

morning, go to school all day, work out

311

for basketball and go to work at night.

312

And I was doing that

five, six days a week.

313

that really helps.

314

And you, that work ethic.

315

But also too, I'd say, you know, God wink.

316

And what I mean by that is.

317

God just seems to wink at

us and throughout our lives.

318

And if you look back at God

winks, when you know a blessing

319

and God just, things just happen.

320

But it's God.

321

You know, when I was 16 years old,

I talk about this in the book.

322

I, I worked at a golf course

and it wasn't a fun job.

323

I was, shagging golf balls, cleaning

golf carts, and taking out the trash.

324

There's nothing fun about it.

325

I wish I was in the, pro shop

giving golf tips, which I didn't.

326

But Rex, the owner is a wonderful guy.

327

Rex is not a typical golf course owner.

328

He's the guy who bought a open piece

of prop, like 80 acres, and he was out

329

there with a tractor and people helping

him design the golf course himself.

330

Like that's that.

331

You don't, he's a blue collar kind

of guy and you don't see that a lot.

332

But he taught me about money.

333

He taught me about compound interest.

334

he said, Hey, let's play Who

wants to be a millionaire?

335

And he showed me, literally I wasn't

making, I think I was making $6 an hour.

336

I really don't remember the

exact, but it wasn't much.

337

But he showed me by taking a certain

portion away, I could have a lot of money.

338

by the time I'm 30.

339

And it was the first time that a light

bulb went on and go, oh my goodness.

340

You're telling me I can do this.

341

I don't have to be a Bill Gates Junior,

or, coming from a wealthy family

342

that I can build this on my own.

343

And it was the first time in my life that

a light bulb went off and go, my goodness,

344

I still have the power within me, that

my future could be brighter than my past.

345

And that was a god wink of, hey.

346

as things developed, I didn't even know

I wanted to go in the financial industry.

347

Honest truth, another god wink.

348

I had an internship, did it for

several years and just so happened

349

that a family friend was a financial

advisor and I just got an internship.

350

Just check mark the box, you know,

Hey, a path of least resistance.

351

my undergrad was actually

first part psychology.

352

Um, and then it just came

back that I loved it.

353

Math was my easy suit.

354

I loved helping people.

355

I saw the ripple effect, kinda like

when you go and you mow your grass,

356

you can see the fruits of your labor.

357

Well, same thing in the financial industry

when you start seeing the impact you have.

358

And I just think all of it with

my life and journey came full

359

circle of it was God winking at me.

360

I love it.

361

Like, this is like college football to me.

362

I love talking about it.

363

So it's kind of a little

bit about, you know,

364

Tim Winders: Well, yeah.

365

do you recall thinking about money much?

366

I mean, I used to joke all the time

about the, Scarlet O'Hara, moment

367

from Gone with the Wind where she

becomes poor and then, before the next.

368

Half of the movie, she says, as God is

my witness, I'll never be poor again.

369

You know?

370

And, uh, did you, did, did money,

uh, I'll throw some words out

371

and you could say, yeah, UR Nay.

372

Did it consume you?

373

Is it something you never thought about?

374

Did you think about it from time to time?

375

Did you say like that Scarlet O'Hare,

you know, I'm not gonna be poor.

376

What was your, what was your thought

process about money as you were in

377

your developmental years as you're,

playing sports, but also starting to go

378

to school and other things like that.

379

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

380

A absolutely.

381

You know, when you go through something

like that experience like I did, it does,

382

it stays in, in the back of your mind.

383

and it wasn't just thinking about

money, but it was also like what money

384

can do for you and what a lifestyle

that you're desiring or wanting.

385

but, but I'll be honest, I

mean, my life came full circle.

386

it really did because when I was

younger, I thought it was just money.

387

It's like, Hey, I, if I get money, then

this piece and security will come back.

388

This joy, you know, all the void of what

I lost or the lifestyle I had or got to

389

experience, I thought it was just money.

390

But, you know, Tim, I was wrong.

391

You know, I call it outwardly

successful, but inwardly stressed.

392

I mean, all the things I wanted

to help people with, I talked

393

about that ripple effect.

394

when I was newly married, I, you know,

success on the outside was growing.

395

Money, assets, this or that.

396

My happiness level wasn't going with

that, you know, with as quickly as that.

397

And so I was missing a key element.

398

and I can, we can dive into that,

but there's a lot more there.

399

'cause it's not just money, When I was

younger, Wanting money, wanting a certain

400

lifestyle would be in the back of my mind.

401

Tim Winders: did you think that

sports might be your ticket or your

402

way out or was that just 'cause

you were good and it something that

403

just the doors kept opening up?

404

What was I, 'cause I saw where you

played pro ball over in Europe.

405

There was also one comment that

you weren't necessarily great at

406

negotiating your contract or something

like that, which then makes me wonder

407

about the, it makes me ask another

question about the money thing.

408

But, tell me more about that.

409

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

410

Yeah.

411

You know, so basketball was my way out,

to be honest with you, but it wasn't

412

my way out as in to a life of money.

413

It was my way out of, 'cause my

mom, like I said, there wasn't

414

money there to pay for college.

415

And that's not my mom's fault, it's

just we weren't in a position like,

416

oh my brothers, they're incredible.

417

they put themselves through school.

418

I mean, it's amazing.

419

And so that was the same as me.

420

So to be honest with you, it is either

gonna be the military or athletics.

421

And both are, in my

opinion, a great option.

422

because you can, you know, that

could happen or what it looks

423

like, kind of a long shot.

424

and so.

425

Yes.

426

When, I was 21, just turned 22,

you know, get an opportunity.

427

you remember Seinfeld when Kramer gets

sued over a coffee spit on coffee and they

428

make an offer a free coffee for life and

he could have gotten so much money, but he

429

jumped up and he goes, yes, I'll take it.

430

that was me.

431

I was just like an opportunity to

play basketball and travel the world.

432

Yes, I'll do it.

433

Um, I didn't, you know, because

you know the whole, this

434

is gonna be my way of life.

435

I never really thought that it

was just like another God wink.

436

but I knew that academics could be

my way out in the sense of, hey.

437

You have basketball, you have some

talent, you're getting a great

438

blessing and opportunity that

you get your college paid for.

439

And I went to a great school, Dallas

Baptist University, my undergrad to a

440

private university, first class education.

441

There was no way I could afford to

go there if it wasn't for sports.

442

And that place, it really changed my life.

443

it's a wonderful place and it

taught me, you know, of growing in

444

my faith not to compartmentalize

Christ and what it means for that.

445

And so that really helped,

with my spiritual growth.

446

Tim Winders: Was there a time, you

know, you said you grew up around

447

church in a church situation, but

I've noticed that most of us, we.

448

Possibly piggyback on either our parents

or someone else's faith for a while.

449

And then there's a time in

life where it becomes our own.

450

And you know, some people say, oh,

that's their salvation experience.

451

I'm not totally with that theology.

452

I think sometimes it's when we

finally hit our knees, finally

453

submit, finally surrender, whatever.

454

And sometimes that's, a

situation or something like that.

455

When I bring that up, is there a

time that comes to your mind when

456

you go, you know what, this is

when I became a follower of Christ.

457

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

458

Absolutely.

459

I know it.

460

you know, first there's two times.

461

The first one is yes, when I willingly

accepted Christ and took that step.

462

And then the second one would

be in baptism, that first act

463

of obedience, but the one.

464

Time that I remember with that.

465

I doubt.

466

I think what you're kind of talking

about was when I hit my knees and this is

467

silly, but this was a life changing moment

again, is, my first two years playing

468

college basketball or junior college,

I was a little undersized coming outta

469

high school and I was on Moody's five

star, which is kind of a big recruiting

470

thing for junior college players

going on to four year universities.

471

the thing was, I wasn't getting recruited

by the schools that I thought I wanted.

472

the schools that I thought were

premier, division one schools, and

473

for me in my world, which sounds

silly now, but I was consumed by

474

that, that was kind of my life.

475

I gave everything to basketball and

this is my goal and this is what I

476

wanted to do it wasn't turning out.

477

And I have a friend of mine, his

name's Doug, he was my guidance

478

counselor, he is my brother.

479

I love him to death one night

and I'm racking myself up, you

480

know, working up again, anxiety.

481

And he goes, Nick, have

you prayed about it?

482

And the answer was no.

483

You know, Nick have, you

know, essentially, did

484

you turn this over to God?

485

No, I mean all these things.

486

I remember I got on my knees that night

and I said, God, whatever you want.

487

the very next day I got a call from, my

college coach was Blake Flicker at DBU.

488

He calls me at like eight o'clock in the

morning who calls a college kid to recruit

489

him at eight o'clock in the morning.

490

You know, wanna be half asleep.

491

He started talking.

492

I fell asleep when he was on the phone.

493

I'm not kidding.

494

I feel so bad at that.

495

I've never told him the story.

496

I, but I was just, it was eight

o'clock in the morning and

497

he was telling me, I woke up.

498

I think 10, 12 minutes

later he's still talking.

499

I would've never taken that visit,

but I felt terrible that I did that.

500

'cause I, I would never do that.

501

And so remember it.

502

I was driving up on a hill

'cause DBU sits on a hill.

503

My brother and I were

driving up for the visit.

504

'cause I, I wasn't gonna take it.

505

I was just doing it at a courtesy I

felt this overwhelming peace that,

506

oh my goodness, that was unique.

507

I didn't feel a whole lot.

508

I'm not saying God opened the heavens

and spoke to me, but it was this peace

509

in my heart, like an answered prayer.

510

And it didn't matter what coach did,

it didn't matter what he showed me.

511

I was going to DBU and it, guess what?

512

That was like my springboard.

513

and I did that again, I felt that

same prayer before going overseas.

514

I said, God, if you want this to happen,

I'll be a, a feather in the wind.

515

I pulled my car on the side of the

road, same thing, and I felt that peace.

516

And so the, what you're asking is that,

that moment we go to our knees and, and

517

the thing is, I wish I could tell you that

I'm this perfect Christian, and, every

518

time I deal with a difficult situation,

I turn it over to God and the answer's

519

no 'cause I'm still hardheaded that I

still have to be reminded sometimes,

520

Hey, did you turn this over to God?

521

You know, have you done this?

522

And so it's all still growing, but

that, it was a very pivotal point in my

523

faith where was a, a realization, Hey,

you don't have to do this on your own.

524

Tim Winders: I think a lot of us,

you know, you're, you're skilled,

525

you're talented, you're good.

526

You know, you said you were a Moody's

five star, so you, Probably thought,

527

okay, you know, I've been blessed.

528

I've got this talent and all, plus I've

been working hard, you know, shooting

529

hoops outside, everything like that.

530

There's also a word, I think you brought

it up in your book related to finance.

531

We'll talk about it in a little while.

532

this aspect of control.

533

you believe you have control.

534

Which I think is a myth.

535

I do think there's a choice that we

have in your book, rich by Choice,

536

but I also think that there's a

certain degree of surrender that,

537

we can guide it and lead it so much.

538

But yet, just like you said, when

you, oh boy here, it's come to prayer

539

that it's gotten so bad and now

I've got to pray and, and, and you

540

mentioned being the perfect Christian.

541

I don't, I don't even know

those words go together.

542

but what it comes down to is what

we will often do is people that are

543

wired like you are, like I am like

a lot of our listeners, they're

544

leaders, they're successful, quote

unquote in, in the world system.

545

But we kind of get in this mode

where we believe we're all that

546

and we kind of forget who we

serve and what we're all about.

547

and I think that's our ebb and flow.

548

throughout life.

549

So, one of the things I

wanna jump a little bit here,

550

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

551

Sure.

552

Tim Winders: 'cause I read

between the lines in your book.

553

this is something that's always

fascinating to me with guys like

554

yourself and others that are, successful.

555

They've done well in certain things,

but to me, the most successful thing

556

that we do is choose our spouse, or

the Lord chooses our spouse for us.

557

And I've seen her, I mean, in y'all's

pictures I see a picture, I think

558

it's Chelsea or Chelsea is her name,

and I'm like going, just like a lot

559

of us, she married way up the food

chain, which is pretty obvious on that.

560

But, tell me how that came about.

561

Because what I really found is that

many times you're talking about a

562

god wink or miracle or whatever.

563

Many of us, our real

success, either we were.

564

Ready for it, or God

said This guy needs this.

565

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

566

Mm-hmm.

567

Tim Winders: tell me more about

Chelsea and how she came to be

568

and, helped you, really get to the

levels you've gotten him to in life.

569

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

570

Oh, absolutely.

571

I mean, it is, I, I, and I tell my kids

to this day, you know, who you decide

572

to marry is the second most important

decision you'll ever make in your life.

573

And I truly believe that.

574

Now, I'm still young.

575

I don't got the whole world figured out,

and I might be wrong, but oh my goodness.

576

You to pick up the cross and follow

Christ number one without a doubt.

577

And then, and what that pursues next.

578

But then the thing is who you marry.

579

I, oh my goodness.

580

Yes, it is.

581

And I, I lucky.

582

I'm lucky.

583

I got so lucky and I tried to

mess it up so many times before.

584

I mean, I, you know, I

spoke, my brother's a pastor.

585

I spoke at his disciple now one time,

and I said, you know, if God himself

586

came down when I was 17, 18 years old

and told me to write out everything I

587

wanted her wife describe her, It wouldn't

even been close to what Chelsea is.

588

I and I, and I say, and

I really mean that today.

589

I mean, it, it really is.

590

she's amazing.

591

I mean, she is so much better in

me, in so many different ways.

592

And, and she's the glue

that holds it all together.

593

She's incredible.

594

And she does it with

such grace and beauty.

595

I mean, you know, when we first got

married, I was making so many, being

596

young and dumb, I mean, I remember it

like I was handling all the finances.

597

I was, it was just silly.

598

And it wasn't a man woman power.

599

No.

600

It was just, I was a financial advisor.

601

I thought that's how I served my family.

602

Like, I should do this.

603

Right?

604

Like I thought it was, and you

know, again, we were on our way

605

home from a little weekend getaway.

606

we went to Lubbock, Texas to watch

Texas Tech where she went to school.

607

It was a fun place.

608

Played golf with buddies, go to some

football games, hang out with friends.

609

But on the way home we got into another

money disagreement and it wasn't a

610

fight, but it was the same agreement

over, we just weren't on the same page.

611

It's like spinning your wheels in the

mud, and we all know what that is.

612

I mean, money and finance is number

one cause of, of marital spats.

613

And pulled the car over and it just

to breathe because it was like we

614

were having the same conversations

and we weren't going anywhere.

615

And I remember she said something

to me and she goes, I just wanna

616

know that we're in this together.

617

And in my mind I was kind of

like, what are you talking about?

618

Like, man, yeah, we're in this together.

619

This is why I get up every morning.

620

This is why we do what we do.

621

And so I reached out, I had these

mentors and they gave me some

622

books to read and some exercises.

623

And it talks about that leaving

Cleveland becoming one flesh when you

624

get married, how important that is.

625

And you know, Tim, I

thought I was doing it.

626

I was trying to do it.

627

I knew the concept, but I

wasn't living it just because I

628

didn't know what I didn't know.

629

And that sparked something in

our marriage We did this exercise

630

together, it's the vision statement.

631

you take 10 pieces of paper and you

go to your own parts of the house and

632

literally you think about your life

and write out everything you want to

633

accomplish and not just, Hey, I wanna

retire, or, Hey, I wanna start a business,

634

or, Hey, I wanna start a podcast.

635

No, you go into detail of specifics

of what that's gonna look like.

636

when you're gonna do it, the exact

life, how you're gonna travel, what your

637

hobbies are, what's your relationship

like with your, your kids and family.

638

And so you ride it all out and then

you come together and you go over it.

639

we had a lot that were similar, but

we had a lot that were different.

640

And that was fun.

641

We learned a lot about each other.

642

But it was us getting together

saying, Hey Chelsea, do you want?

643

What does that look like?

644

Why do you want it?

645

You know, it's silly that we

never, life was coming at as fast.

646

We didn't do those things.

647

and not in the detail that this exercise

that I go over in my book and that we did

648

together, but Tim, that moment completely

changed our relationship because, you

649

know, I'll be honest with you, saving.

650

Investing.

651

It's boring.

652

I mean, I was getting my

paycheck to money coming out.

653

That's not fun.

654

But when you're building something

together, you get excited about it.

655

And so, us doing that and, and us yes.

656

Running a company

together, it's so much fun.

657

And none of this would've

been possible without her.

658

Tim Winders: Yeah, and

it highlights something.

659

I think, we'll go ahead

and go into this now.

660

right before we hit record, I said I love

talking to what I call money guys that,

661

you know, money is in your DNA with what

you do, and it's part of your business and

662

everything, and there's a faith component

to it because I love tying in the biblical

663

and the faith component with money because

I think in many circles it gets really

664

weird and people don't know how to do it.

665

And anyway, it can get odd.

666

I think the same thing can happen.

667

When we're talking about husband and

wife, it can often just be difficult

668

for people to talk about money.

669

I can't relate to that.

670

'cause often I think I

talk too much about money.

671

I mean, it's like, Hey,

how much did you make, man?

672

How much?

673

What's your car, man?

674

It's like, oh man, how much should you

make playing college ball, you know,

675

playing when you were playing pro ball?

676

Come on, man.

677

and that's a taboo unfortunately,

in the world we're in.

678

I'm like going, nah, I mean, let's

come on, let's talk about it, but talk

679

about whatever you want to related to

the challenges with faith and money.

680

And then to piggyback on what you

just mentioned with the difficulty

681

that, Chelsea and you had, just

682

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

683

Mm-hmm.

684

Tim Winders: about money

is tough for people.

685

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

686

it is.

687

and I learned this not only with my

experience working with families,

688

but also my own personal experience.

689

I mean, as a husband, I wanted to

be, you know, my job, I don't wanna

690

say my job, but I felt the need

to be, Hey, I want to give Chelsea

691

everything I wanna provide for her.

692

I wanna get her this and that,

and do these things and be,

693

the Superman in her life.

694

Like, that's what I wanted.

695

And if I couldn't do that, it's very

typical, and I've seen this a lot with

696

other spouses, that they feel inadequate.

697

So when Chelsea would be talking about,

Hey, these are things that she wants

698

to accomplish, and I couldn't, we

couldn't quite get there yet, I would

699

get a little anxiety or stressed or,

you know, Hey, I can't do that now.

700

And you just have to understand and get to

know each other on the psychology side of,

701

Hey, what does money look like to them?

702

And that's why the vision statement's

so important of, Hey, what do you want?

703

what does things look like in detail?

704

So it is, I mean, I can't tell you

how important communication is.

705

I learned this, and you didn't ask

me this, but I'll tell you, you know,

706

anytime something big happens in our life,

whether we have another child, we start

707

a business, we move locations, anything

that big, we're creatures of habit.

708

When the ground shakes beneath us,

things can kinda get sketchy or wobbly.

709

Chelsea and I are real quick to

get into some sort of marriage

710

devotional, counseling marriage groups.

711

And we do that, not even if we're

having problems, 'cause what it does

712

is it keeps the line of communication

open because life gets busy.

713

You know, before you know it, like after

here, I'm coaching my son in baseball.

714

we're running a business.

715

we're on the go a lot.

716

We're in that season of life, which

is a fun season, it makes us stay

717

grounded of, Hey, let's check in.

718

How are things going?

719

How you feeling?

720

Chelsea's one, she'll tell

you what's on her heart.

721

I remember our first time we

were doing devotion together.

722

I said, you know, hey.

723

What perceived notions did you

have before we got married?

724

Where am I succeeding

and where am I failing?

725

I tell you what, when I asked her,

she answered, I learned very quickly

726

that I better be prepared if I'm asked

those questions, but it's important.

727

So the first thing you talk about

money and taboo is especially with your

728

spouse, you know, constantly check in

and what I love about books that we

729

do together, it's dummy proof for me.

730

I can literally read the chapter

and I can go line by line of those

731

intentional questions, those Oprah

ended coach, that make it easy on me.

732

And then especially, it starts and

then the conversation just goes.

733

But oh my goodness, do that.

734

It's been such a blessing

for our relationship and

735

continue to grow together.

736

So that's a lot of fun.

737

And then money and faith, I mean, yeah.

738

Do you want me to go

into that, that store?

739

I'll open that up and we can talk

about that because there's a lot there.

740

Tim Winders: yeah.

741

Before you do that, I wanna ask

something that I've had my wife.

742

Because I consider myself a coach.

743

Always wanted to be a coach.

744

Growing up thought I was gonna be

a coach, like for athletics and,

745

in the education field, both my

parents were educators until one day

746

I found out how much money they made

and I went, I'm not gonna do that.

747

I didn't know we were poor growing up.

748

I thought we had more money.

749

but everything I've done has kind of

gone back to coaching and I've had

750

my wife tell me this, and I think

this sort of relates to money too.

751

So I'm gonna ask you

752

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

753

Mm-hmm.

754

Tim Winders: a transparent type question.

755

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

756

Sure.

757

Tim Winders: my wife tell me at

times that I, I can be better at

758

interacting, coaching, nurturing

others than inside my household.

759

And so you deal with money, you

help people work through money,

760

and I'm sure that she sees

you do that with other people.

761

Do you at times do that better outside

your household than you do inside?

762

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

763

Yeah, that is a really good question.

764

And I would say absolutely yes.

765

There's times of that

just because what I do.

766

Just like you, I'm a coach

essentially as well, just like you.

767

And so you kind of get

to that, that point.

768

So that's why I love the books like

John Gottman's got a couple of 'em,

769

and I love that because it's an outline

too, where I can't just step in and go,

770

okay, hey, this is what we need to do.

771

This is, tell me your thoughts.

772

Tell me why.

773

Let's connect on a deeper, level where,

and that's so important where I and

774

I, and I'm not ashamed to tell you

some of those, marriage devotionals.

775

I go strictly by the book and I'll

follow it 1, 2, 3, 4, and then

776

afterwards it'll lead to other thing.

777

But I do just because to avoid

what you're talking about and, um.

778

I could tell you that I was

this genius husband that could

779

do it all on my own, but oh my.

780

No, it's so much help.

781

and then also we're very lucky to

have, people in our lives to where we

782

can reach out and go, Hey, I'm dealing

with this, I'm dealing with that.

783

that's really important to us.

784

and we've been very blessed in the sense

that we have a peer group of individuals

785

and mentors that, we're surrounded by.

786

Tim Winders: Hmm.

787

I noticed also you that,

you have a foundation.

788

We have a foundation with our family

also, that we are attempting to do

789

some things together to give, to

educate and other things like that.

790

Tell me just briefly about that.

791

I think a lot of people don't

understand that concept.

792

They don't want to spend a lot of

time on it, because I want us to

793

get to some things that are in the

book, but tell me a little bit about

794

your foundation and what y'all are

trying to do there with your kids.

795

And tell me, gimme the ages roughly

of your kids because, I think

796

many times the foundation, you're

probably tying your kids in with it

797

too, where you can, I'm guessing.

798

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

799

Absolutely.

800

I mean, we have four

kiddos, two boys, two girls.

801

Starts at 19.

802

Our oldest son, is Dagan.

803

We have a 9-year-old little girl, Kinsley,

a 5-year-old little boy named Brooks.

804

And then we have a almost

2-year-old named Everly.

805

And so we have a gap there.

806

But I

807

Tim Winders: Wow.

808

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

809

because yeah, the, the older ones are fun.

810

'cause during that season of

life where they're active.

811

You can go to like our oldest, you can

go to college football games, you can,

812

you know, play golf, do those fun things.

813

And the younger ones, and dad,

are still cool to them where they

814

wanna give you hugs and kisses

and, and, and cuddle with you.

815

So it, it's wonderful.

816

And so the foundation is really

us giving back on people like I

817

talked about, Rex, us giving back

on people who have influenced us

818

and things that've influenced us.

819

So we talked about Rex that, you know,

teaching us finances and or teaching me

820

finance and how it empowered my life.

821

So we will go to high schools

and we, we buy 'em a bunch of

822

Chick-fil-A and gift cards and money.

823

We make it a fun environment

and we teach 'em about money.

824

We teach 'em about life.

825

because my goal is if they can

just start, 'cause everything

826

in your life is compounding.

827

It's not just money.

828

And if you can start a money

education, you can spark an

829

interest like Rex did with me.

830

Then they'll pay attention.

831

Something else will come along six

months or a year later and they'll

832

catch onto that and then it just starts

their growth period a lot faster.

833

And then they're seeing

it from someone who.

834

Was similar to them, walked in their

shoes because I'm not a teacher and

835

teachers are wonderful, but I'm someone

from the outside that not getting

836

paid to be there, just doing it.

837

and so we have education

material where they can jump on

838

and start to learn even more.

839

We also do things like sending kids and

families to camp, and that's church camp.

840

Like we go to family camp.

841

It's been amazing for our family.

842

So we have some of the process

foundations send families to family

843

camp, which is like gonna church

camp, but entire families go.

844

It's a amazing, it's really neat dynamic.

845

and then we send kids to church camp

the summertime just because those things

846

helped us when we were younger growing up.

847

And so our foundation is, you know, trying

to give back on things that I really,

848

we've been blessed with on helping people.

849

And I truly believe this, that our goal is

to give people a hand up, not a handout.

850

And there's nothing wrong with

a handout because some people

851

need that from time to time.

852

But really try to help people

elevate themselves to where they can

853

create a better life on their own.

854

Tim Winders: Mm-hmm.

855

Yeah, that's good.

856

There was something you mentioned,

I kind of brought it up earlier, but

857

in the book here, it was a chapter

where you talked about, I guess, one

858

of your girls had been rushed to the

hospital and there was a sickness

859

and all, and we can mention that, but

860

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

861

Yeah,

862

Tim Winders: That week changed me

forever because I finally understood.

863

Control is an illusion, but

love, purpose, and gratitude.

864

That is what remains unshaken.

865

I also at times think that if we put

our trust, this kind of goes back to a

866

fate thing, our trust in the finances.

867

And it's interesting, the word rich.

868

We'll talk more about

what rich means shortly.

869

I, there was a period of time where

I put quite a bit of trust and I was

870

saved and following after the Lord.

871

I believed at the time,

872

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

873

Mm-hmm.

874

Tim Winders: a lot in my bank account

and what I had and I think that that

875

was a bit of an illusion for me.

876

Also talk about control, and I'm kind

of tying in a bit of a faith component

877

with this too, and how much of what we

think we control, we probably don't,

878

and I think people that are wired a

lot the way we are and the listener is

879

we really desire to have that control.

880

So just whatever you wanna

say about it, just share.

881

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

882

absolutely.

883

And if someone has that desire, you

talked about how you were a little

884

bit more control on your bank count.

885

I mean, that's human nature.

886

I mean, we're imperfect creatures

trying to live in an imperfect world,

887

so don't beat yourself up over it.

888

I mean, my daughter got really sick and,

you know, not to go into the details, but

889

they didn't know what was wrong with her.

890

And some of the symptoms she was showing

was very similar to cancer patients.

891

I mean, we had transferred

the cancer ward.

892

I mean, can you imagine walking in to

the cancer ward with all these beautiful

893

kids, but they're fighting for their

life and by the grace of God it comes

894

out that it was something really simple

that she had, was cured and we were

895

out within a few days, but leaving.

896

That cancer ward, you know, there,

there's a bunch of kiddos there that never

897

left and that's heartbreaking, but they

had their beautiful kids and smiles on

898

their faces and I mean, they so strong.

899

And you realize that control.

900

Oh my goodness.

901

I mean, there's nothing, if that was

my daughter and that was God's fate for

902

her, there's nothing I could have done.

903

the control is an illusion.

904

And also too putting, like you talk

about your faith and, and where

905

you focus on what's on your heart.

906

you know, if it's just money or, or

pride in that, I mean that there's

907

not a lot of happiness in that.

908

There's not.

909

and so when it comes to control,

you've gotta put your faith in God.

910

Now, I will say this though, when it

comes to control, it's not really control,

911

but God, we're made in God's image.

912

And part of that is intellectually we can

absolutely grow and intellect and choose

913

to make the right choices to benefit

our, not only our money, but our lives

914

as well and be proactive and intentional.

915

and you can control that.

916

You can control your actions.

917

Now, a lot of things we don't

control, but those things you can.

918

So it's kind of a balance

of, hey, what do they say?

919

control the things you can control and

pray about the things you can't, which

920

there's so many things that you can't,

which I'm the first to admit that.

921

But there are some things that

we can be intentional about,

922

you know, going forward.

923

Tim Winders: Yeah,

924

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

925

difference.

926

You are correct.

927

Tim Winders: sure.

928

Your daughter's doing well now.

929

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

930

Oh my goodness.

931

There's one thing.

932

It was Wow.

933

But yes, thank the good Lord.

934

She's good.

935

she's sassy as ever.

936

It gives me attitude, but she's wonderful.

937

Tim Winders: Very good.

938

All right, so talking about control,

if I look over your right shoulder,

939

rich by Choice is your book.

940

I've got

941

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

942

Mm-hmm.

943

Tim Winders: copy right here.

944

I'll hold up for those that are watching.

945

The subtitle is Take Back Control,

946

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

947

Mm-hmm.

948

Tim Winders: master your Money,

and Design the Life of Your Dream.

949

So obviously there are some things

that we can't control, but then

950

there's some things that we can, that's

where this rich by choice comes in.

951

We've got a few minutes left here.

952

So tell me, tell me the purpose,

what, why'd you write this book?

953

And then let's hit a few nuggets.

954

What, why'd you write this book

and, uh, and see what we can glean

955

through outta control as far as money

956

goes.

957

So, tell me more.

958

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

959

yeah, it was actually a lot of

events that came into place at once.

960

you know, it was in the financial

world and I wanted to document,

961

almost journal everything.

962

I was learning to simplify it that way.

963

What, and I was doing that, but at

the same time, my pastor did a series.

964

Pastor Rick says what the Bible doesn't

say, and it was a fascinating experience.

965

He talked about a lot of different

things in there, like, that people

966

would think, Hey, the Bible says this.

967

In reality, it doesn't

like one that caught mine.

968

Well, everyone knows, hey, the, the, the

love of money is the root of all evil.

969

It's not money is evil.

970

So that's a very common one.

971

He did that one, but another

one he did was gambling.

972

Betting.

973

Now, I'm not here to say one

is right or wrong, so please

974

don't think I'm judging anybody.

975

But he was in seminary school and he

had his buddy, pastor Rick, came up to

976

him and said, Hey, did you know that

betting or gambling's against the Bible?

977

It's a sin.

978

And Pastor Rick goes, you know what?

979

I'll bet you a hundred dollars.

980

You can't find anywhere in the Bible.

981

Or it says, gambling's a sin.

982

And you know, I think it was a week later,

he comes up, paid him a hundred dollars.

983

He lost the bet.

984

And the thing was, is I thought for the

longest time it was, how could it not be?

985

It's gotta be a sin, but it wasn't.

986

So he did a couple of these sermons,

this series, and it got me thinking

987

like, well, what don't I know?

988

Like, I'm thinking all these

things and I'm a believer.

989

I love God, I love Jesus.

990

I want to do that.

991

So I started the same

process every morning.

992

I'd read, you know, three

chapters of the Bible.

993

And if you do that, it's a

little over a year long process.

994

You read the Bible from cover to cover.

995

Never done that before.

996

I, I should have, but I didn't.

997

but I was doing that along with reading

all this, you know, finance material,

998

and all of a sudden they came together.

999

It says the exact same thing.

00:43:07,636 --> 00:43:10,306

Now, if you're listening right now and you

don't believe in God or you don't believe

00:43:10,306 --> 00:43:11,556

in the Bible, hey, I still love you.

00:43:11,556 --> 00:43:12,276

I still wanna help you.

00:43:12,276 --> 00:43:13,056

I care about you.

00:43:13,356 --> 00:43:16,803

I'm telling you this, the Bible is the

greatest success book ever written.

00:43:16,896 --> 00:43:20,706

I mean everything from Warren Buffett

to Dave Ramsey, and I mean, you can

00:43:20,706 --> 00:43:22,626

find it and find it in the Bible.

00:43:22,686 --> 00:43:26,556

And so, coming back to the thing that

Rich by choice is we have a choice

00:43:26,556 --> 00:43:28,266

and to be rich, yes, with money.

00:43:28,266 --> 00:43:31,566

But the goal is not just rich and money,

it's rich in all areas of your life.

00:43:31,566 --> 00:43:33,906

You know, be a millionaire in

life and creating millions of

00:43:33,906 --> 00:43:35,196

experience with the kids you love.

00:43:35,436 --> 00:43:38,627

A billion, you know, hugs and kisses

from those precious grand babies.

00:43:39,006 --> 00:43:40,236

That's what Rich is.

00:43:40,236 --> 00:43:42,846

And, and yes, money is a part

of it, but it's not everything

00:43:42,896 --> 00:43:45,266

I've seen lots of families that are.

00:43:45,851 --> 00:43:50,081

It's a hundred million dollars more and

they'd probably give a lot of it up, or

00:43:50,081 --> 00:43:53,201

if not all of it, up to take back a few,

few things in other areas of their life.

00:43:53,261 --> 00:43:56,801

Now again, the flip side of it, the

other extreme is having no money and

00:43:56,801 --> 00:43:58,331

thinking poor is being closer to God.

00:43:58,331 --> 00:43:59,002

That's wrong too.

00:43:59,111 --> 00:44:02,831

' cause if you follow biblical advice,

you will grow and rich, you know,

00:44:02,831 --> 00:44:06,611

riches in all areas and you know,

rich in faith is the number one thing.

00:44:06,791 --> 00:44:07,721

So that's what it is.

00:44:07,721 --> 00:44:09,281

And we have a choice.

00:44:09,281 --> 00:44:11,591

And it's aligning your money

with what's most important.

00:44:11,591 --> 00:44:14,421

You understand who's important,

what's important, and then using

00:44:14,421 --> 00:44:16,221

your money to to, to align with that.

00:44:16,221 --> 00:44:18,021

That's where true happiness comes in.

00:44:18,021 --> 00:44:20,301

So you can control the.

00:44:21,231 --> 00:44:24,326

intentional with your time and your

money and things like that, and

00:44:24,326 --> 00:44:25,706

building the life that you want.

00:44:26,081 --> 00:44:28,641

and that's what I love about it

because it's a different book.

00:44:28,641 --> 00:44:31,431

It's not just, Hey, you need X

percentage in emergency fund,

00:44:31,581 --> 00:44:33,681

which is important, but it's not.

00:44:33,681 --> 00:44:37,011

At the end of the day, we're all

uniquely different in a wonderful way.

00:44:37,041 --> 00:44:38,211

Our situation's different

00:44:38,671 --> 00:44:38,891

Tim Winders: Hmm.

00:44:38,901 --> 00:44:38,902

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

00:44:38,902 --> 00:44:41,331

might be great advice for you

might not be great advice for

00:44:41,331 --> 00:44:43,101

me or Bob Smith up the road.

00:44:43,431 --> 00:44:46,881

So it's understanding who you are,

what you are, what your desires

00:44:46,881 --> 00:44:49,281

and who you want to become and

the life that you want to have.

00:44:50,391 --> 00:44:53,001

you know, what kind of experiences

do you wanna create with loved ones?

00:44:53,421 --> 00:44:55,851

And then you learn the money

tactics and you bring 'em together.

00:44:56,211 --> 00:44:58,611

And that's what I've learned,

that hey, that's the control.

00:44:58,611 --> 00:45:00,111

We can start working towards that.

00:45:00,181 --> 00:45:03,061

once you start taking those little

steps, that's where you start to feel

00:45:03,061 --> 00:45:06,541

more joy and more happiness, which

is what we're all searching for.

00:45:07,356 --> 00:45:11,556

Tim Winders: I love how you broke it

down that Yeah, I think you had three,

00:45:11,706 --> 00:45:17,996

three big categories and I'm getting

to where I enjoy books that have I'll

00:45:17,996 --> 00:45:22,496

say short sections in them, you know,

little mini sections just to kind of read

00:45:22,496 --> 00:45:26,246

through and 'em, and I've actually been

writing some fiction and I'm trying to

00:45:26,246 --> 00:45:29,816

have that fiction be shorter chapters.

00:45:29,816 --> 00:45:33,716

I just think people's attention

spans are more, more like that.

00:45:33,926 --> 00:45:36,746

You know, one of the things I know, and

this is the thing that I really like

00:45:36,746 --> 00:45:41,516

to ask people that are in, in positions

like yours, I know that you have the

00:45:41,516 --> 00:45:48,101

opportunity to interact with, and I'll,

I'll call it minister, coach, work with,

00:45:48,401 --> 00:45:48,402

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

00:45:48,402 --> 00:45:48,821

Mm-hmm.

00:45:49,076 --> 00:45:51,206

Tim Winders: a pretty

large number of people.

00:45:51,866 --> 00:45:56,156

What are some of the

things that you observe?

00:45:56,891 --> 00:46:00,611

Maybe some of the biggest

mistakes you see that people make.

00:46:00,611 --> 00:46:02,351

I know you're not gonna

call out any names.

00:46:02,401 --> 00:46:05,551

what are some of the biggest mistakes

you see people make, that you can

00:46:05,551 --> 00:46:07,531

share, that we can learn from?

00:46:07,891 --> 00:46:11,491

And then what are some success

stories that you can share that

00:46:11,491 --> 00:46:14,011

just will encourage and uplift us?

00:46:14,531 --> 00:46:14,532

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

00:46:14,532 --> 00:46:14,981

absolutely.

00:46:14,981 --> 00:46:18,341

the mistakes, a lot of 'em,

are just not being intentional.

00:46:18,371 --> 00:46:21,371

Like it's a life by d sign

for, it's a life by default.

00:46:21,461 --> 00:46:23,111

I mean, and, and not making, or.

00:46:24,026 --> 00:46:25,526

taking action is a decision.

00:46:25,796 --> 00:46:28,826

So that's the biggest thing, is just

taking the time we live in a fast world.

00:46:28,886 --> 00:46:30,056

I mean, life comes out as fast.

00:46:30,056 --> 00:46:30,686

I get that.

00:46:31,046 --> 00:46:33,866

But take the time to sit down and

really internalize who you are,

00:46:33,866 --> 00:46:34,886

what your strength and weakness are.

00:46:34,886 --> 00:46:36,416

What do you want, what's important to you?

00:46:36,416 --> 00:46:37,616

What's the life that you're gonna live?

00:46:37,836 --> 00:46:38,896

some people don't know.

00:46:39,016 --> 00:46:39,886

Well, I have an activity.

00:46:39,886 --> 00:46:41,386

The booth talks about your

happiness, the island.

00:46:41,446 --> 00:46:43,546

Look back over your life and

when were you most happy?

00:46:43,546 --> 00:46:44,116

Who were you with?

00:46:44,116 --> 00:46:44,806

What were you doing?

00:46:45,236 --> 00:46:49,526

but then the common ones also on top of

that are, Hey, yes, live below your means.

00:46:49,646 --> 00:46:51,086

Can't spend more than you make.

00:46:51,086 --> 00:46:53,966

And, you know, save, give those

things are, are definitely important.

00:46:54,206 --> 00:46:57,716

So mistakes are, the loans I see

are very common with, you know,

00:46:57,746 --> 00:46:59,096

what you've probably heard before.

00:46:59,366 --> 00:47:02,816

But the fascinating thing about my

job, what I love is talking about

00:47:02,816 --> 00:47:04,586

the characteristics of success.

00:47:04,796 --> 00:47:09,446

So I get a behind the scenes look at a lot

of successful people, a lot of success.

00:47:09,446 --> 00:47:14,366

And success isn't just dollars and

cents, but you start to see people that

00:47:14,366 --> 00:47:17,756

are happy, successful, and successful

across the board in their life.

00:47:17,786 --> 00:47:20,066

And what they define as

success, not just money, but

00:47:20,396 --> 00:47:22,046

relationships, love, joy, security.

00:47:22,931 --> 00:47:25,781

There's common themes in, I

call the virtues of success.

00:47:25,871 --> 00:47:29,351

It is, whether it be integrity,

grit, perseverance, hard work,

00:47:29,681 --> 00:47:31,461

faith, and determination.

00:47:31,461 --> 00:47:34,011

So that's what I really enjoyed.

00:47:34,061 --> 00:47:37,601

the first part of my career is I got to

sit down with these families and find out

00:47:37,601 --> 00:47:39,801

what works and then what leads to a life.

00:47:39,831 --> 00:47:42,111

'cause a lot of families that

we work with, they're in the

00:47:42,471 --> 00:47:44,001

later stages of their life.

00:47:44,001 --> 00:47:46,441

they've already built, wealth

and they're trying to protect

00:47:46,441 --> 00:47:47,791

and preserve it and pass it on.

00:47:47,791 --> 00:47:50,221

one of the greatest joys, we

have fourth generation clients.

00:47:50,251 --> 00:47:51,151

You know what that means?

00:47:51,271 --> 00:47:52,051

That's incredible.

00:47:52,051 --> 00:47:53,131

I mean, that's what we all want, right?

00:47:53,131 --> 00:47:57,091

We want to not only pass on our

money, but our virtues of success,

00:47:57,311 --> 00:48:00,281

our faith to our kids, where they can

use it as a ripple effect to benefit,

00:48:00,341 --> 00:48:02,081

grow their life in a wonderful way.

00:48:02,891 --> 00:48:03,701

That's amazing.

00:48:03,731 --> 00:48:06,941

And so I start to see these similarities.

00:48:07,316 --> 00:48:11,216

And it, might be a little bit different

or they're used and geared towards a

00:48:11,216 --> 00:48:14,396

different way, whether it be real estate,

oil and gas, or this or that, but all

00:48:14,396 --> 00:48:16,196

the virtues of success are the same.

00:48:16,316 --> 00:48:17,516

And I talk about that in the book.

00:48:17,516 --> 00:48:18,896

They're all doing the same stuff.

00:48:19,256 --> 00:48:23,236

It's geared towards who they are and

their, uniqueness of their lives.

00:48:23,566 --> 00:48:26,116

But I find that so

fascinating, and I love that.

00:48:26,566 --> 00:48:27,406

And we can all do it.

00:48:27,406 --> 00:48:29,176

That's what you talk about,

you being sports, right?

00:48:29,416 --> 00:48:31,936

Being in sports, if you're six

foot 8, 250 pounds and you can

00:48:31,936 --> 00:48:33,856

run a 4, 2 40, that helps you.

00:48:34,036 --> 00:48:34,666

But guess what?

00:48:34,666 --> 00:48:37,786

In the business world and

money, we can all do it.

00:48:38,086 --> 00:48:38,986

And that's exciting.

00:48:40,146 --> 00:48:44,491

Tim Winders: What is something that's

always interesting to me about the

00:48:44,491 --> 00:48:55,351

role that you have is what sort of

pressure do you feel overseeing,

00:48:55,351 --> 00:48:59,996

guiding, leading, managing what,

whatever words you want to use.

00:49:01,201 --> 00:49:05,821

This important part of people's lives.

00:49:06,191 --> 00:49:10,511

what is it like knowing that

you've got 40, 50, a hundred,

00:49:10,511 --> 00:49:12,661

300, or whatever number the it is

00:49:12,961 --> 00:49:12,962

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

00:49:12,962 --> 00:49:13,381

Mm-hmm.

00:49:13,721 --> 00:49:19,841

Tim Winders: they're coming to you

saying here, and we know that there

00:49:19,841 --> 00:49:22,811

are ups and downs in the economy

and different things like that.

00:49:22,811 --> 00:49:27,091

You talk about that some, but I mean,

do you feel any pressure at all.

00:49:27,826 --> 00:49:27,827

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

00:49:27,827 --> 00:49:29,086

Yeah, that's a really good question.

00:49:29,086 --> 00:49:31,246

And I've had a a, I definitely

have been asked that several

00:49:31,246 --> 00:49:32,456

times And the answer's none.

00:49:32,756 --> 00:49:33,776

I don't feel any pressure at all.

00:49:33,776 --> 00:49:34,406

And I'll tell you why.

00:49:34,436 --> 00:49:35,786

No, uh, really hear me honest.

00:49:35,786 --> 00:49:36,026

It's not.

00:49:36,056 --> 00:49:36,866

'cause I'm being arrogant.

00:49:36,866 --> 00:49:37,586

I just hear me.

00:49:37,916 --> 00:49:41,066

When I first started in this industry,

to be a financial advisor, to

00:49:41,066 --> 00:49:44,396

get hired on with a good firm and

pass all your exams and tests and

00:49:44,396 --> 00:49:48,556

then build a business, especially

when I started in my twenties, is.

00:49:48,871 --> 00:49:49,531

Almost impossible.

00:49:49,531 --> 00:49:50,671

Like it is tough.

00:49:50,701 --> 00:49:51,331

It really is.

00:49:51,361 --> 00:49:52,231

'cause I didn't come from money.

00:49:52,231 --> 00:49:53,191

None of my family had money.

00:49:53,191 --> 00:49:55,231

So we had to, I had to build it.

00:49:55,531 --> 00:50:00,271

And thing is, is I had these mentors and

when you're growing a business, whether

00:50:00,271 --> 00:50:03,533

it be in the financial or any type of

business, there's certain activities,

00:50:03,721 --> 00:50:05,041

key activities, you have to find those.

00:50:05,041 --> 00:50:07,651

They're drivers that if you just

focus on these and you just do 'em

00:50:07,651 --> 00:50:09,761

over and over again, I found those.

00:50:10,166 --> 00:50:13,016

And then what was great is when I

would leave the office at the end

00:50:13,016 --> 00:50:15,746

of the day and at the end of every

week and the end of every month, I

00:50:15,746 --> 00:50:19,676

had this great piece because I just

knew that if I did these things, the

00:50:19,676 --> 00:50:20,906

results would take care of itself.

00:50:20,906 --> 00:50:23,966

Now, there's some ebbs and flows, but

I did it, and I've learned that too in

00:50:23,966 --> 00:50:27,996

this process that I've had great, very

blessed to have great men cores that had

00:50:28,086 --> 00:50:31,116

great success, great education pursuit.

00:50:31,266 --> 00:50:34,116

I enjoy it and I find out

what works, and I stick to it.

00:50:34,266 --> 00:50:35,886

Like I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel.

00:50:35,886 --> 00:50:38,796

I'm not one of these guys that says,

Hey, let me tell you what I've learned,

00:50:38,796 --> 00:50:40,056

and it's completely new and different.

00:50:40,206 --> 00:50:44,346

No, what I do is what's worked

for generations upon generations.

00:50:44,406 --> 00:50:46,926

And that brings me peace

knowing that, hey, it's proven.

00:50:47,021 --> 00:50:49,871

and I can tell people too, if they come

to me with different ideas, I'll say,

00:50:49,871 --> 00:50:52,661

Hey, you know, I hope that you hit it big.

00:50:52,661 --> 00:50:55,421

Like I got this great stock tip,

Nick, from my work buddy, it's

00:50:55,421 --> 00:50:56,681

gonna, you know, it's gonna pay out.

00:50:57,041 --> 00:50:57,851

I'll tell 'em, Hey.

00:50:58,706 --> 00:50:59,696

hope it does.

00:50:59,696 --> 00:51:00,716

I really do with all my heart.

00:51:00,716 --> 00:51:03,396

But you know, unless you're taking

financial advice from somebody that

00:51:03,396 --> 00:51:06,066

you work with that owns their own

private yacht, private island and