Your Business Is Only as Strong as Your Relationships

Let’s get real: business ownership can be lonely.

We spend so much time talking about strategy, money, marketing, employees, customers, and growth that we sometimes forget about one of the most important assets we have as entrepreneurs: our relationships.

In this episode of Getting Real with BOSSY, Kelly Bush and Kelly Metras sit down with Nida Leardprasopsuk, founder and CEO of IRL, for a candid conversation about the connection between our personal relationships, our professional lives, and our success as business owners.

Because here’s the thing: you don't build a business in a vacuum.

Your team, mentors, friends, family, customers, colleagues, collaborators, and fellow entrepreneurs all become part of the ecosystem that supports, or sometimes drains, your entrepreneurial journey.

Business Is Personal

Entrepreneurs love to talk about separating business and personal life. But is that actually realistic? When you're the owner, the lines can get pretty blurry. A stressful day at work comes home with you. A family challenge can affect your decision-making. A big win gets celebrated with the people you love.

Nida shares why cultivating strong relationships isn't just about having a busy social calendar. It's about creating a support system that helps you navigate the highs, lows, uncertainty, and downright weirdness of entrepreneurship.

Making Friends as an Adult Is HARD

Remember when making friends was as simple as sitting next to someone in class? Yeah...not so much anymore.

The pandemic changed how many of us socialize, work, and connect. Digital communication became easier, but genuine, in-person connection sometimes became harder.

And for entrepreneurs, especially those who spend much of their day leading, managing, and making decisions, the challenge can be even greater.

This episode explores why building relationships as an adult requires something we don't always love: Intentionality.

You have to make the effort. You have to show up. You have to create opportunities for connection instead of waiting for them to magically happen.

Give Your Relationships a Report Card

One of the most interesting ideas Nida brings to the conversation is a relationship grading system: A, B, C, D, and F.

Think of it as a relationship inventory. Who are the people who consistently support you, challenge you in healthy ways, celebrate your wins, and show up when things get tough?

Who are the relationships that might need more attention?

And perhaps most importantly...

Are there relationships that are taking more from you than they give back?

It's to step back and honestly consider where you're investing your limited time and emotional energy. Your calendar (and your energy!) are telling you something about your priorities.

Can Technology Actually Help Us Be More Social?

Ironically, technology may also be part of the solution. Nida's work with IRL focuses on using technology to help people create more real-world connections.

That's an interesting shift.

Instead of asking, "How can we spend more time online?"

We're asking: "How can technology help us get back to real life?"

For entrepreneurs, that could mean using digital tools to facilitate introductions, discover communities, organize gatherings, or create opportunities to meet people face-to-face.

Your Social Capital Is a Business Asset

Relationships aren't just good for your personal life- they can have enormous professional value.

Your network can help you:

• Find mentors and advisors
• Discover new opportunities
• Make warm introductions
• Find potential collaborators
• Learn from other business owners
• Get referrals
• Find employees and talent
• Navigate challenges
• Celebrate the wins
• And occasionally remind you that you're not the only person who has absolutely no idea what they're doing.

One practical strategy discussed in this episode is the power of warm introductions.

Instead of cold-contacting everyone you want to meet, look at the people you already know. Who knows someone you want to know?

That simple question can open some very interesting doors.

Become the Connector

Another takeaway? Host something.

Don't wait to be invited. Have a few business owners over. Organize a coffee meetup. Invite people to dinner. Create a small gathering around a shared interest.

You don't need a massive networking event with name tags and awkward small talk. Sometimes the most valuable connections happen around a table, over coffee, or while doing something people actually enjoy.

Your BOSSY Homework

This week, we want you to conduct a Relationship Audit.

Grab a piece of paper and make three lists:

1. The Keepers

Who consistently brings encouragement, perspective, opportunity, honesty, or joy into your life?

2. The Growers

Who would you like to know better? Who could become a mentor, friend, collaborator, or part of your entrepreneurial community?

3. The Energy Drainers

Which relationships consistently leave you feeling depleted, discouraged, or unsupported?

Then ask yourself:

Where am I investing my time, and is that investment giving me the relationships and support I actually need?

You don't need 500 connections.

You need the right connections.

The BOSSY Bottom Line

We often measure business success in dollars, customers, followers, employees, and growth.

But what if another measure of success is who you have around you while you're building it?

The strongest entrepreneurs aren't necessarily the ones who do everything themselves. They're the ones who know when to ask for help, when to make an introduction, when to show up for someone else, and when to invest in relationships that make everyone stronger.

Your network isn't just a Rolodex. It's part of your resilience.

So get off the screen. Make the introduction. Send the text. Schedule the coffee. Invite someone to dinner.

And maybe, just maybe, stop waiting for friendship and community to happen, and start creating it.

Because business may be what you're building, but relationships are what help you build it.

Mentioned in this episode:

Joe Bean Roasters

Use promo code Lunchador for 15% off your order! https://shop.joebeanroasters.com

Connections with Evan Dawson

Connections with Evan Dawson - Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts

Lunchador Podcast Network

Check out all of the shows on the Lunchador Network at lunchador.org!

Foreign.

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Getting Real with Bossy, the podcast that talks to you about what it's actually like to be a business owner.

We are your hosts, Kelly Bush and.

Kelly Metras, and we are so grateful.

To have you here with us on this beautiful sunshiny day.

Yes.

We are recording in August.

It's Kelly's birthday.

I'm older.

A perfect day.

Like, you cannot get a more perfect day than today.

Gorgeous.

Yeah, it's also.

Happy birthday.

It was your gift.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Oh, I appreciate that.

Good job.

Good job.

Okay, we'll pretend that's my gift.

I just remember my gift hasn't arrived.

I hope I didn't get spammed.

It's amazing.

I hope it comes today.

That'd be amazing.

Yeah, I just.

Amy, my manager's car is having.

She had to get some work done, so I had to drive her down to Bay Creek paddling this morning.

And I was like, oh, this is just a day to be out on the water.

It is.

But instead, we're working.

Yeah.

We were not supposed to be recording today.

Um, for keeping it real.

We had the weirdest thing happen when we tried to record the other day, and Kelly was talking in fast forward, which was a new tech glitch that we don't understand why or how or when.

Or is it just that I am.

That I don't want to say.

Crazy.

That's not the right word.

No.

Overwhelmed.

That I'm just now talking in double speed, trying to get as much work done as possible.

When you're watching reels and they're getting too long and you hold down the button so it goes fast.

That's what you wanted.

Like, there is a.

One of my favorite children's movies, if you can have access to it to watch it.

If you haven't seen it.

It's called Hoodwinked, and it's based on little story, the story of the Little Red Riding Hood.

And we have it.

We had purchased it on Amazon years ago, so we still have it in our library.

So if you ever want to watch it, I'll give you my Amazon password.

No, I'm not stealing.

But anyway, there's a squirrel detective as part of the story, and at one point, the other detective gives him a cup of coffee.

And every time something like that happens, that's what I think of, because the squirrel's just, like.

Right.

Like, rattling everything off so fast, and my family finds it really funny.

So that's all I could think about the other day.

Yeah.

I remember that movie.

I gotta check it out again.

Oh, my God.

People's watch Hoodwinked.

Anyways, it's a great movie about perspective, so we could even tie this into business ownership.

It was a great movie.

All right, are you ready?

I'm gonna tie this into today.

No, we do not plan these things.

No.

Connection and perspective.

Yeah.

So that movie is about perspective, and today we're gonna talk about connection, and you need to be able to have perspective to make meaningful relationships.

That's very true.

I'm now seeing that we can take movies and maybe that's a new spinoff podcast where we relate them back to business ownership.

We're going to have a checklist of how many business ideas Kelly comes up with just while we're on air.

Because it's not only when we're on air that you do these things.

I know I'm not a fan of AI, but is there a program that can just go through and listen to all of our podcasts and just give.

Me, like, it's Aaron.

I could just.

Yes, it is Aaron.

Yes, that's right.

I have such a task list for him.

I need all my shirt ideas.

I need all the business ideas.

Yes, he does go through and take notes.

I know.

He's so good at that.

He's so good.

I'm sure it's in a.

A drive of some sort with our.

Name on it, right?

Yeah, it's probably in our drive.

He probably hacked us.

He probably hacked us.

We have too many things going on.

We don't even know who's hacked our drive.

Yeah, but on that note, relationship building, very important.

I mean, that is the basis of Bossy.

To have people that understand your perspective.

Love it.

So, yeah, we.

We're going to talk about the importance of relationships.

We're going to talk a little bit about the new world we live in and how hard it is sometimes to build new relationships and just being adults, like, making new friends as adults.

Sometimes happens supernaturally, and other times it's.

Like,.

Did I got your number in a group chat?

Like, is it cool if I chat you back?

You're so awkward.

I feel like we're so awkward.

And I think I sent you a reel, I don't know, maybe a week ago.

And this woman keeps making them every day.

And it's like, how we connect now as adults.

And she's like, hey.

She's like, on the swing set.

Yeah.

She's like, I'm in perimenopause.

How are you doing?

All right, look what I Can do.

I'm like, oh, my God, yes.

Because we're so.

I can hang upside down on a swing and.

Right.

And I think about, you know, all the work that we've done to become better networkers and better.

Like just making that in person connection and.

And making those feel real.

I can't imagine coming into business ownership after the pandemic because things are just so different now.

Like, there's a skill that I think is missing or.

Or maybe they have a benefit.

Yeah.

In the before times.

In the before times.

Trying to constantly get back there.

I was just reading an article.

I don't want to say their name, but there's some arches involved.

No, not arches.

That was a different article.

This one was about the mermaid on the cup.

So their name.

Oh, Trying not to say their name.

No, I know.

I'm so sorry.

No free advertising.

I was just excited that I knew what you meant.

Even with price increases, which does not mean that you're back to your revenues of pre times because you've increased your price so you're actually selling less.

But even with their price increases, they're not.

They're down from when they were 20, 23 and nowhere close, obviously, to where they were in the pre times.

And I was just thinking about how that's everybody.

Like, for those of us that were in business before, we have to raise our prices.

Everything's more expensive.

We hate raising our prices.

Labor is more expensive, Cost of goods are more expensive, Overhead's more expensive.

So you're raising your prices, but you're still trying to get those numbers.

And I'm like, trying to get myself in that mindset of, no, this is a new business.

And then I read these articles about these massive conglomerates that are still talking about their pre time numbers, and I'm like, but we're never gonna be that again.

You can't be.

It's not the same world.

It's a completely different world.

So we need to focus on relationships, which to tie back into this episode, they did talk about how that particular company had gone so far off what they were founded on because of the increase in technology and the shortage of labor and all of the pandemicy stuff that their focus is bringing all of that back to build relationships, to build that community.

So, yeah, so perfect.

I think we just tied all of these random ass conversation tidbits.

It's a birthday miracle.

All right, enjoy the episode.

Welcome back to Another episode of Getting Real with Bossy, the podcast that talks about what it's actually like to be a business owner.

Today we are joined by nita, founder and CEO of IRL, also a master, certified coach, entrepreneur, TEDx organizer, and someone who has spent more than two decades studying the way our relationships, identities and personal lives show up in the way we lead and do business.

What really caught our attention about Nita is her belief that you can't neatly separate the person from the business owner.

What's happening in our relationships, our boundaries, our confidence, and even the way we see ourselves inevitably follows us into the boardroom.

Our so today we're getting real about relationships, connection, leadership, and what it actually looks like to build the life and business that feel aligned.

Nita, welcome to Getting Real with Bossy.

Thank you, Kelly.

And Kelly, thank you for having me on your show.

We're so glad to have you.

I feel like this is such an important topic.

I look at the people that were coming into, you know, millennials were like coming into the workforce at the turn of the century, right?

So whatever the term is that we're going to end up calling these people that came into the workforce during the pandemic and that shutdown phase and that lack of like every.

Everybody pulled back, right?

So there's this bubble of people that as they were coming into so called adulthood, you know, and not having the interactions, you know, even looking at my little kids, my first two kids, we were out all the time.

We were at playgrounds and museums and parks and play play dates.

And my little two were jammed together, you know, doing little things here and there.

So, like, their experiences with life are so different.

Maybe that's why I love looking at it so much, is seeing my kids having two very different experiences.

But yeah, I look at this generation and it's so interesting to see the different segments of how they approach interaction, communication, job expectations, much less how we're approaching adulthood in general, which would be our relationships.

Right.

Like, that's a huge part of life.

So, Nita, tell us about your app.

Yeah, so I'm building an app called IRL and for in real life.

And it's an app that is several things.

So to simplify it, it's kind of like your second brain for your relationship.

So it knows about all your relationships.

Let's say on average, 150 to 250 relationships in your life.

So not just your best friends, not just your relatives, not just your colleagues, but you know, everyone, acquaintances, people that you've met through your work personal life and it's the relationships that you want to nurture and you want to keep in your life.

So it helps you also expand your network through your inner circle, through the people you already know, like and trust.

And you know, you could host dinners, you can join other people's dinners.

The key thing is that you expand your network through the people you already know through warm introductions, through dinners, through get togethers.

And I think the reason people don't like going to networking events, don't like to go to, you know, random meetups, dinner with strangers kind of things, because the people are too random.

You know, we don't really hate.

We don't hate networking, we don't hate meeting people.

We don't like meeting people that are just not common enough with us.

Not.

No common values, no, you know, common lifestyle aspiration, mindset, outlook in life.

So we need that, yes, we do grow based on differences, but we do need that common core values in order to get along, you know, and yeah, that's what the app is for.

It's on, it's on test flight now, so don't go looking for it on, on the App Store.

So it will be on the App Store soon.

And I'll share with you.

You can just get, get on our website and, and subscribe to join our wait list.

And then when it launches, then you'll, you'll find out about it.

Well, and I think that's another great point is that I've seen it grow.

The disinterest in making the effort with people that we don't know that we can trust.

And there's such like a political divide and a social divide and it's so much more important to us or just more apparent that it should be important to us that the people we're engaging with share our values.

And I think that's a great point of.

Well, I don't want to waste my time engaging with this person because I don't even know what their stance is on different things that are important to me or I'm going to put all this energy in just to find out that they're an asshole.

Right.

And taking that to business too, I think we're leading business with our values more now than ever before.

So to think of, you know, even just social networking as a business owner, you, you know, that has the potential to lead to business relationships as well.

And there needs to be that definition.

There needs to be that, that, you know, we, we use bossy so much to get recommendations because we want people that are aligned with us and our values and who we are.

So it is getting more and more important to, to know.

To know who you're sitting down with at dinner.

Yeah.

And that they have common experiences too.

I mean, that's how we started.

Bossy was being in a room where nobody understands where you're coming from or the life you're living or the stressors you have.

You know, that's why these groups exist.

And you see them all over Facebook.

Right.

There's a. I've always said there's a group for everything on Facebook.

Like literally the commercial, and I've mentioned this before, where they had like a group for people who like rocking chair on their front porch.

Right.

It's like the joke is like they literally have a group for everything.

But now I fear that that use of tech to connect, because that use of tech, it does it.

It limits how much you can get to know somebody and how much energy you can share and that back and forth that you get in real life.

And I wonder if people are more scared to try.

We'll put IRL to try real life experiences when they're like, well, I'm comfortable behind the computer.

I can just go in my groups or I can go on my zoom or I can do this from my house rather than go out and like chance failing at a new experience.

Yeah.

And I think that's why with irl, we're not telling you to go out and meet strangers.

Right.

When we're so.

So one of the functionalities on the app is called second degree dinners or second degree meals.

And so you basically, if I was going to host a dinner, I would invite a co host and that co host would, you know, we would invite guests.

So my friend, my co host would invite three guests.

I would invite three guests, you know, and maybe we could do.

Those guests can invite their friends as well.

So we would get to have a mix of people that we knew at the dinner table and new people that we got to know through, through our friends.

So the whole thesis is just like you're, you're.

You're more likely to get along with a friend of a friend because it implies that they have common values, common interests, common aspirations.

Right.

And if you Go to like a random networking event.

I look at it like you're going to a football stadium with a hundred thousand people.

I mean, come on, how many people would you want to be friends with?

So it's like really random.

So the idea of this is like, it's not random people.

There's more probability you're going to get along with people that have already been vetted or vouched by the people you already know like, and trust.

And so every, every thing that's put into the app is designed in a way to help you expand your circle in that way and nurture those relationships in a, in a systematic way.

And I'm not really surprised that we're, we've gotten so bad at this because of the Internet world and, you know, all social media apps and everything hasn't been training us to be good at relationships.

It has made us much, much, much worse at relationships.

So apart from school and universities never teaching us to do this, now we've gotten really bad at it because, you know, this illusion, when you see people on social media, like, you know, what they had for lunch, you know what they had for dinner, you know, what you saw their birthday party, and it makes you feel like you actually have a relationship with them, but actually not.

You don't actually have a relationship with them.

Nothing actually happened in real life.

And so with this, we're trying to reverse that.

We're trying to reverse the damage that has been done by social media, you know, and I mean, I'm not anti social media.

I don't really consume anything on social media.

Maybe some, you know, when I want to learn something, but.

And it is useful for things, it can be useful for connecting with people.

You know, I've met lots of people on social media through LinkedIn, through different platforms that actually turned into a real relationship.

But you have to have the skills and the mindset to actually turn someone that you met in the inbox into a real relationship.

Right.

And so I look at all these platforms as tools and how do we use them to our own benefit and not be like stuck on it and be, you know, doom scrolling and feeling hopeless and empty after you've done, you've just been on the platform, all these other platforms, and you feel like you're learning, you're connecting, but not actually, you know, and with this irl, it's a good mix.

It's kind of like a healthy social media where you're actually learning about what the people in your life are actually doing and what are they up to, but then you're meeting up with them in real life to have conversations about those things as well.

It's not just like one sided relationship where just consuming, consuming, consuming information.

Right.

But there's like no relationship there.

So.

Yeah, that's the whole idea behind, behind this app.

And it was, how did I come up with the idea?

Basically I went from super introvert to super connector and I learned through all the things that I did, all the strategies and also interacting with other super connectors and learning what they've been doing.

Turns out that we're doing the same thing.

It's not rocket science.

It's like really the same, same things that we do.

And when you look at people that are lonely and you know, where do I find good friends?

Where do I find good people?

Like they're doing the opposite of what we're doing.

Yeah.

So it's a learnable skill.

It's a learnable skill.

It's a learnable mindset.

It's once you understand, kind of becomes easy.

But when you don't know, you don't know.

So when I didn't know, I really didn't know.

I was really lost.

Yeah.

Well, and I think that it, it's a very interesting combination of tech and in real life.

Right.

So you've got, for instance, I don't think we've even mentioned that you're in Bangkok right now and we're in New York in the United States and we're having this conversation.

I think it's bedtime for you and it's like lunchtime for us and we got to meet and we are going to have these conversations and we're getting to share your story and your app with whoever decides to listen.

Right.

So like tech can be amazing, you know, and it can bring people together and that you're using it to better our social capital.

And you, you know, that is something that colleges, you know, aren't really using in person relations anymore.

Everything's online, you're zooming, you're sending everything on, on drives.

And my, one of my students is in culinary school and was taking an entire semester online.

I'm like, you're in culinary school?

Like, what?

How is that even possible?

And like Aaron, my husband, went to go back for his to finish his master's and realized everything was going to be online.

And he was like, but I want to do this to get back my social capital, to get back building relationships and meeting people that are aligned through taking the same courses as me.

Right.

So it's still Having that something in common, but we're not doing it in person anyway.

And it's like, well, how are you supposed to get the social capital that you need to be, to get through adulthood and to be successful in adulthood if we're all hiding behind a computer?

So I love that you're using tech to bring people together in real life.

Yeah, yeah, that's a, that's a big problem.

You know, you know, work from home, study from home, and we're being more isolated than ever.

And people know this, but it's kind of like you get used to it.

You know, when you're used to it, it's kind of normalized.

Like, yeah, everybody works from home.

Everybody just like, does their own thing.

And we don't need to, you know, spend time and energy to, to commute to college, to university anymore.

And we just like, we find it more efficient to just like stay at home, connect online, do the work.

But then it comes at a cost, right?

Everything is a trade off.

Yeah, yeah, I think there's a huge cost.

Right.

So I think, you know, people are used to it.

It's become common.

We get to a certain age where we're like, I've got like three good friends.

Why do I need to do more?

So what is, I mean, there's, there is science behind why these connections and relationship building are.

And could you speak to some of that?

Yeah, there's so many.

So the I'll talk about the one that actually inspired me to do all of this.

Like, it was a talk that was probably published 10 years ago, like a decade ago.

So it's based on Harvard's longest study on adult development.

They've been doing it for like 87 years.

And what they found, the name of the TED talk is what Makes a Good Life.

So they found that the number one factor that supports a human being to live a long, healthy and happy life is actually not food, not going to the gym, but it's a quality of the relationships in your life.

And we don't mean like marriage or, you know, best friends.

We're looking at a human being and how do they engage with the people in their lives, Whether it's a stranger, whether it's just people around them, how do they engage with these people?

Do they have good relationships?

And that, that talk, really, that's like my favorite talk of all time.

And when I heard that, I was like, wow, like, I need to really be paying attention to my relationships.

I need to add more people to my inner circle.

I need to find People that are more aligned with, with who I want to become and how I want to live life moving forward.

But I was also a workaholic, and I didn't know how to start because I was a super introvert.

You know, when you're an introvert, you're like, you really don't know where to start.

Where do I go and meet people?

Where are those people?

Like, you have really, like, no idea where.

And I was like, like, I didn't do anything for many years until Covid hit.

And during that time, like, we were really forced to stay at home for years.

And I think that Covid actually helped us reveal a lot of truth, like, that we were trying to ignore in our lives.

So I realized that I was lonely even though I had people in my life, you know, friends.

And just because you have people in your life doesn't mean you're not lonely, you know, because it's a different thing to, to be like, you could be surrounded with a lot of people, but you might still feel like you don't get each other and they don't see you, and you, you know, they, you're not known, you're not seen, you're not heard.

And so I realized that, you know, I, I, I am lonely.

And I do, I want to set a goal for myself, you know, coming from a. I was a coach, and yeah, I'm still a coach, coach, therapist.

So what do you do?

You set a.

Right.

So I added, I set a goal to add a hundred people to my inner circle.

And everybody always makes this face when they, when I, when I tell that story.

Like what?

Like a hundred people?

Isn't that a little.

100?

Yeah.

And I don't know why I came up with that number, but I thought it was like, you know, I don't want 50, I don't want 70, but I want a hundred.

And so I wrote a big post that I put it on my, like, bedroom door, and I was like, I didn't know how I was going to do it.

And to be honest, I was like, is this even doable?

But, you know, you want to set a challenging goal for yourself.

And this is actually what I really, really want.

So inner circle.

I don't mean these hundred people are all my best friends.

I don't talk to them on a weekly basis.

That's not possible.

This is not my, you know, even though I do this for a living, I don't have time to do that.

But what I mean is, like, these hundred people I trust, I know, like, and trust me.

And you know, we might engage three times a year, we might engage every week, but.

And they, you know, we have subcategories for them, but I call them my inner circle because I like them, I trust them and you know, if anything comes up, we will be there for each other.

That's kind of my definition of what I mean when I say inner circle.

Some people might mean, might be talking about like their five best friends, but for me that's what I mean when I say inner circle.

And I, I didn't know what to do.

So I started by going to those like chamber of commerce events.

I stuck with it for like May five events.

And I was like, this is not working.

You know, this is not leading to a real friendship.

It's not going anywhere.

You just go and you get a bunch of name cards.

So then I started to join.

I became a member at a clubhouse.

You know, I met a few friends there and you know, learn about this thing called TEDx that you can be a TEDx organizer.

And then, you know, one thing led to another and here we are.

I became a silver connector.

And yeah, apart from irl, I'm also running a membership community that's built, built on integrity.

So it's where, you know, like minded people that want to change the world, want to leave the world a better place.

Kind true givers come together from different backgrounds and industries.

And yeah, it's kind of a annual thing, annual membership thing.

And people will come and work on things together and collaborate and build friendships.

And of course there will be professional collaboration as well, but it's not entirely based on business things.

So it's really about relationship first, human first.

And so yeah, all of these things I guess came from the journey of.

Me.

Having no idea how to solve this problem.

And now I do.

And I want other people to learn as well and I want other people to be able to have their village.

You know, people, we all want a village, but we, we don't necessarily know how to build the village and we might not have the time to go and build the village.

So this is kind of like me helping you build a village, but you still have to do some work, right?

Yeah, yeah, well, and it's.

If you, if you have people in your village that suck and you just have them there for no reason, right.

They're taking up that space and they're taking up that capacity and that energy you're putting forth into the world and not putting it back.

Right.

But when you're having these intentional, we'll call them villages, these intentional groups in your life where you're picking and choosing.

Like, I even tell my kids, if you have people in your life that are negative and bringing you down, that's taking up space that other people can't come in for.

So you can't have good people come in if you're letting shitty people take up that space.

So I like this idea of kind of really looking at who's in your group, who are you giving your energy towards.

Yeah, and bringing some new people in.

That might be better.

Yeah, for sure.

For sure.

So I have this grading framework that I teach people, and I grade my relationships.

So there's a B and C. So A, B and C are all people you know, like and trust.

Like, they are your friends, they have your best interests at heart.

But it's just different levels of closeness.

Right.

A are like people you call at 3am if you have a crisis.

And C are maybe like, you know, people you've known from, you know, past your career or whatever.

And you're still like, you know, you might see each other twice a year, but, you know, if something comes up, you're.

You're willing to help them and vice versa.

But Ds are like, it's a failing grade, isn't it?

D is a failing grade.

So they're people that you don't really trust, but you can kind of work with them.

You know, they might be your colleague at your workplace or whatever.

You don't trust them, but you can kind of work together.

The Fs are like people that are dangerous.

You want to stay away from them.

You want to have, like, nothing to do with them, if possible.

And then I, I created another category, G. So G is like general acquaintance.

And I think it's very important for people to realize and be intentional about who they call a friend.

Because some people they call friends, they're actually acquaintances.

And there's a big difference.

Right.

When you, you're not.

You're not really thinking about it, and you call everybody a friend, you also, that, that word also comes with expectations.

And you start thinking everybody should be helping you and doing things for you and rooting for you, but actually they're just an acquaintance.

Like, you don't even know them, they don't know you.

So oftentimes I see this kind of imbalance where one person wants to be friends with everyone, but other people, like, yeah, I'm not your friend.

And the way they treat you, they're not a friend.

So this is where you have to be really intentional and conscious and really think about, like, okay, what?

But it's not about labeling people.

It's really.

It's about being intentional and how you invest in each relationship.

Because if you waste time with the D's and the F's, you're not going to have time for your A, B and Cs.

Right, right.

And the Ds and the Fs really waste your time.

Yeah.

I'm a huge proponent of energy.

And so I look at it as you're taking that energy I could be doing anything else with.

Right.

And I think it's where those D's become really dangerous.

I mean, F is dangerous, but the Ds, those are the ones that are taking up that time.

And I love that grad system.

And, you know, it's not labeling, but it's protection.

Because I think that's really true.

Especially as women, we put, oh, these are my friends.

These are people I can count on.

And when that doesn't happen, it's such a letdown and so almost devastating sometimes.

But they did not have the same experience in that relationship.

They didn't see you as that person.

But when you're just trying to kind of collect and collect because, you know, you need to gain more people in your circle, put those unfair expectations on some people and that.

So that's a really neat way to look at it.

And it can be.

It can be harm, like, hurtful at first to go through and realize those things.

But a lot of times we're putting, like Kelly just said, expectations on people that they can't fulfill.

They're not capable of being that friend to us.

For whatever reason, they're not capable of that relationship.

So it's best for both of you.

Right.

So it's going to be hurtful to be like, oh, my God, I thought this person was my friend.

I thought I could count on this person.

I thought they were in my circle and then pushing them out.

But if they're not capable of doing it, it's best for everybody, right?

Yeah.

And I would say if you don't look at these relationships and be very honest about them, it hurts in the long term, you know, because.

Because you'd be investing in these relationships and there would be no reciprocity sometimes.

And you end up, you know,.

Being.

Very resentful about those relationships.

I mean, who doesn't have that one friend?

Maybe not in this age, in our life, but before, like, I'm the only one that calls.

If I never called this person, I would Never talk to this person.

We all have that.

Yeah, yeah.

Takers, right.

So I'm all about, like, my filter is.

My people are givers, like true givers.

And if people have read Give and Take by Adam Grant, you know, he talks about, like, the giver, the taker.

And then there's two types of givers as well.

So there's the giver that wants approval and, like, wants the other person to like me.

But then there's a true giver, and then there's the matcher, and there's the taker and there's the faker.

Right.

So.

And that's where I.

My filter is very.

I've gotten really good at filtering people.

I look for that giver energy, that true giver energy.

And you can feel it, like, you can see it in the micro expressions when you're talking to someone.

You can see it in.

In their.

Their energy, their vibe, you know, when.

When you're in a conversation with them.

And if you get.

I would argue if you get really good at it, you can see it within, like, 10 minutes, like five minutes, 10 minutes.

It's.

It's really like this energy thing that you can feel.

I had two bosses.

It just made me think of when I was younger.

I was working for two places at the same time.

And one of my bosses, I always said I could go to them at any given point in time and they would do whatever to help me.

My other boss, I could go to at any given point in time, and they would do whatever to help me, but they would tell me about it for the next five years.

And I feel like they're.

They're both people I could go to, but they're very different relationships.

And understanding that, you know, because then who am I going to ask for help?

I'm going to ask for help from the person.

The one that doesn't come with a cost.

Yes.

The one that's going to, honest to goodness, want to help me and not just try to make themselves feel better.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what.

What do you think are the first steps that people should take to make new relationships?

Because that's terrifying.

When you said a hundred new, I was like, I.

Like, one is terrifying.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I saw your heart drop a little.

What?

Well, I would say the first step is to.

To do an audit on your relationships first.

So do, like, take inventory.

Like, actually go through all the relationships that you have in your life and you go through all your Facebook contacts, your.

All your, you know, WhatsApp contacts, and, like, really have a Look at all your relationships.

It's almost like cleaning the house.

You know, you want to.

You want to look at what you have, what you want to get rid of, what do you want to add and how do you.

Before.

Because you have to make space first.

Like you mentioned, Kelly, like, you want to make space first.

We have limited time, right?

We have limited time, we have limited energy.

So if we keep a bunch of, you know, D's and F's or even lots of G's, but no A or no A's and no B's, then we.

We really need to look at that.

So I would say do an audit.

Look at all the connections that you have, and where do you want to go?

Like, set a goal for yourself.

Might not have to be a hundred like me, but, you know, maybe it's 5, maybe it's 10, whatever, right?

Depending on.

On where you are, the capacity you have, like, space you have and time and everything.

Because it is.

It does take effort.

Does take effort.

It's like anything in life that you want, you do have to invest in it.

Your energy, your time.

And you do have to have the space and the time.

So you.

You.

You can't be like a workaholic.

You know, if I was still a workaholic today, I wouldn't really have time to do all of this.

And I would say the next thing is to look at who are you looking to find?

Like, what kind.

What kind of person do you want to add into your circle?

Do you have a blueprint for that person?

Do you have, like, a customer avatar?

Right?

A friendship avatar?

Do you have someone like that in your life?

And if you don't, then just look out into the world.

Maybe it's someone that looks like Taylor Swift.

You know, I'm just making a funny example, but, you know, who.

Who.

Who does that person look like?

What is their, like, character?

How are they.

How are they a good friend?

Are they.

What, like, what are they doing?

What are their hobbies?

What are their core values?

You know, or maybe it's someone that you used to be friends with, but you're not.

They're not your friend anymore, but you really, really, like, enjoyed the company of that person, and that's like the blueprint of your friend, whoever it is.

It can be a stranger, it can be anyone.

Sure.

So it's the same thing that you would do when, you know, I did a lot of business coaching, and I get people to think about their customer avatars.

It's really the same thing.

And you want to Write it down like, what is, who is this person?

Why do you admire them?

Why do you respect them?

Why do you want this kind of person in your life?

Right?

And the clearer you are, it's, the easier it will be when you go out and you will see that person.

You're like, oh, this is the person, this is the person, you know.

And in the beginning it'll be harder, but then you'll get better and better, better at it.

Then you want to think about like, where do these people hang out?

You know, what are they doing?

Do they like to read books?

Do they, what kind of activities do they participate in?

And then the other strategy, I would say, if you already have those people in your life, just go to them and say, hey, do you have any other friends that you think would get along with me?

You know, and you'll be surprised that a lot of times people will just make those introductions for you because you never ask people don't think of doing it.

Right.

I met so many people that were like secondary connections that were already connected to my first degree connections, but they never made the introductions because, you know, life is busy and you don't go introducing everyone in your life to everyone.

Right.

But it made me really see, wow, like if, if people just made this a habit, it, introducing people to people, what a better.

We would be living in such a better world.

I think, you know, we would, we would be better at relationships.

We would be setting a really great example for other people in the next generation how to have better relationships.

And we would, we wouldn't be living in such a lonely world.

Yes.

And so yeah, ask for introductions, make introductions.

Just don't, don't be scared you're gonna lose friends.

Like, like connect them.

If they have, if they get along better, fine.

Right?

You don't need to keep everybody, you don't need to hoard everybody and, and you know, and, and keep everybody.

Your, your friend.

And so you have to kind of have a, like an abundance mindset, you know, you can't have a scarcity mindset and try to, you know, be afraid.

Oh, if this person gets along with this person, they're gonna not be, want to be our friend, my friend, you know, and host dinners.

So I'm all about like hosting dinners.

Being a TEDx license holder and organizer is also one of my like greatest friendship strategies.

But of course it's not for everyone.

It is a lot of work.

But I would say like, don't, you don't need to do that.

You can if you want but like, another strategy that might be, you know, a lighter version of that is hosting dinners.

Right?

Hosting dinners.

Now, I've noticed that everybody wants to go to a dinner, but they don't want to host it because it does involve some work.

You need to follow up, you need to keep, you know, inviting people, checking whether they're gonna actually come, you know, and you don't need to cook or anything.

I'm not telling you to do a supper club.

You can just go to a restaurant, make a reservation, you know, and like, hey, get five people if 10 is too hard, right?

I do a table 14.

And you know, the enemy is really our busy lives.

That's really the enemy for everyone.

That's like, you know, people want to join, but then things came like, come up and all that.

So maybe you can do four, you can do three, you can do five, whatever.

Start somewhere, right?

And start getting those second degree connections, joining the dinner, you know, you know, find someone to be a co host and let's, you know, invite your friends.

Invite my friends.

It can be something very low effort, you know, it doesn't have to be something big.

And that's where you start.

And then when you do that, you start to see results.

You start to see, wow, so this is how you do it.

And then you kind of, it's kind of addicting, you know, you want to do more, you want to meet more people.

And then when people find out about it, more people want to join, you know, oh, like, you know, this person's hosting these dinners and you know, we're, we want to join in as well, because people want to be part of the village.

They want to get the village, they just don't want to build it themselves, you know, so.

Yeah, and then, you know, join communities where you feel have like similar core values.

And you know, in the beginning it will be harder and, but you learn, you learn and you get better.

You get better and then, you know, soon enough it's kind of like second nature.

That's, that's what happened to me.

I love that.

Yeah, it's great.

And we always say when it comes to joining things, you know, audit that too.

If you're joining something, like you said about the chambers, you went five times.

When you join something, be like, okay, I'm gonna give it three months or I'm gonna give it three visits.

And every time I come out of it, think, did I get anything from this?

Is this what I really want?

So when you're joining a community, maybe ahead of time you're like, okay, I want there to be an in person event, you know, once every month or I want to meet two new people every time I go.

So, yeah, I think it's important to, to be aware and purposeful on what we're doing, especially when it comes to the people in our lives.

I love that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think people have to really have an abundance mindset when it comes to building your ecosystem and your friendships.

Otherw, um, you know, this thing called sunk cost fallacy.

You know, I've, I've had this friend for 10 years.

I, I can't leave this relationship.

You know, we've always been friends.

We've been friends since high school, but, you know, she doesn't really have my best interests at heart.

It's okay, you know, because we've been friends since forever, you know, so you, you really have to think about the fact that the people that you spend time with, they do influence who you become.

You know, you become the average of the fly people you spend the most time with.

So it does really have an impact on you.

And there's nothing wrong with saying goodbye to people.

There's nothing wrong with.

You know, some people are not meant to stay in your life forever.

You know, they, they were just here for a chapter or whatever.

And, and some, sometimes people are just like, afraid to say no and say like, hey, like, we've kind of grown apart.

We're not aligned in how we see things anymore.

And you know, a lot, some people have, some of my clients, they've done a lot of growth work, a lot of inner work.

And the people from high school just like, not align anymore.

Right.

But they're afraid to say no because they don't want to have conflict with other people and they don't want to seem like, judgmental.

They don't want to, you know, they feel that it's wrong to just like leave relationships.

It's not wrong.

I mean, if anything, you might be teaching them something, you know, that, you know, like if you want to hang out with someone like me, you have to do the work.

You know, I'm, I'm not going to stay here and, you know, gossip about people or be toxic or talk about unhealthy things.

Right?

So by you leaving, you're actually teaching, you're giving them a lesson.

And they have to face the consequence, right, of whatever their behavior, their mindset, whatever they're doing in the relationship, and it's, if it's not serving themselves and other people, then they have to realize that.

And sometimes when you stay in the wrong relationships, it's kind of like you're not.

You're not giving them feedback, and you're kind of just going with the flow, and you're allowing them to keep on doing those negative behaviors and still staying in that relationship.

But also, like, you're complaining about it to other people.

You're complaining about it to your coach, for example.

And I'm like, I can't.

I can't help you solve this.

Like, you need to tell that person.

Right.

And you keep telling me and complaining to me.

I can't do anything about it.

And.

Yeah.

So sometimes I'll just say, like, never tell me about this issue again until you go and talk to this person.

Well, I've seen it so many times with friends of mine.

I'm very blessed to have a friend from second grade.

I think that's very rare.

And we have grown in the same way, and we are very aligned in that way.

But I've seen so many people hold onto those friendships.

Oh, I've been friends with them since high school.

And then behavior becomes very easily excusable because that's just how they always are.

But it's like you're friends because of geography, not because of shared interest, shared work, shared whatever connections that mean anything other than you lived in the same area.

That is not the basis for a solid friendship, especially one that you're going to carry for generations, you know, into.

Into adulthood.

Well, and I would never let my employees.

I would never let my employees act that way.

They're.

You know, you're building your business, you're building your team.

You're building what you want to portray in the world, and you're not going to let somebody bring that down with attitudes and behaviors that don't align.

So why would you let you come home?

And you're going to let people do that at home?

No.

Right?

No.

You got to cut those people out very hard, though.

But it is still has to happen.

But important.

Which is sometimes.

Sometimes you need a therapist to help you, but very important work or an.

App to get you your new inner circle.

Well, that's after you caught the other people out with the therapist.

By then, the app's going to be live.

Right.

And then we can build our new inner circle.

I'm very excited about this.

I am, too.

Me, too.

So when are you expecting it to go live?

So it's actually going to be approved by the App Store?

Maybe soon.

But it's not the version that we want to launch globally.

But I'll let you know for sure.

And anybody that's interested, you just go sign up at Joinirl app and when it launches, you'll find out about it.

Oh, that's exciting.

We're excited.

We're excited to share this.

I was like, I would build this just to use it.

If and nobody would use it.

I'd use it with my friends.

You know, I just want to build it for my own.

I want to use it.

I mean, that's how the best businesses are built.

By solving your own problems sometimes.

Exactly.

Yeah.

You live the problem, you want to solve it.

Yeah.

You're the best client.

I'm the best client.

Yeah.

I think that's why when I was doing developing the app and the product, so I'm basically the CPO Chief Product officer, and it was just so clear to me what would have to be included in the app.

You know, of course we're up to build 22 now, from build 1 to 20, version 22 now.

And we went through lots of iteration, feedback rounds and all that, but it pretty much looks kind of similar to how we started.

And it, it's all the tools that I use in real life for building real relationships.

And I tried 20, 30 other apps.

It could solve, like bits and pieces, but not the real problem.

And I was like, someone please come along and just solve this problem.

But nobody cared enough to go and build the tech, you know, so.

But you did.

I did.

Because I'm really obsessed about this problem.

I really think that I'm one of the most obsessed person in the world that's obsessed about relationships.

Not like all kinds of relationships.

You know, I spent a few years studying, doing a PhD in social psychology.

And I didn't really even realize that that was supposed to be the thing that I was supposed to study.

But I realized now that I am someone that really likes to observe people.

Like, I'm a people watcher and I love to see how relationships form.

I love to know how people met each other.

And, you know, it's just like, it's such a basic thing to most people.

But I'm just very fascinated by this whole idea and how like, you know, the whole thing about everything about relationships, friendship, you know, platonic relationships, romantic relationships, you know, family systems and how people like, you know, get into groups, how do they bond and, and how do other people's mindset and behavior and thinking affect who you become and your own behavior.

So all that is actually social psychology.

And yeah, I'm just really fascinated by all of this.

Well, I am excited to try this app.

I am excited that you were patient with us with all of our technical glitches, our time zone issues.

I learned a lot about daylight savings time this year and what that means in New York State when you're talking to people outside of the state, tech issues.

So I am so happy that you came on and talked about this.

I'm so happy to try your app.

And I'm going to be joining the Waitlist today.

If people want to reach you other than signing up for the app, how would they reach you?

Yes.

So Instagram Need Alert official and I'll share the link with you.

And also LinkedIn need alert for SOPSUK on LinkedIn.

And you know, people can send me messages on Instagram on LinkedIn.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Thank you so much, Nita.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Kelly.

And thank you, Kelly.

Thank you for having me.

Well, that was a timely interview.

Could not be more timely.

So for those of you that don't know, Kelly and I have been talking a lot about relationships as business owners and we plan on doing some focused podcast episodes on that in the near future.

They are so important and it's so nice to have.

I always feel like these things happen a lot where you and I are discussing something and then somebody comes in with actual facts and proves us right.

Because I don't feel like that always.

Happens so much in my life.

People are often trying to prove me wrong, I feel like.

But it was.

It's nice to know that we're on the right track and that human relationships are so important.

They are so important.

I love this Harvard study.

It was all men, socioeconomic race, the whole nine yards.

Very biased.

But it is the longest running study ever.

They do now include women and the families of the people that started.

There's a ton of people, I don't know if you have the number that are still involved in the study.

It's grown to include.

It biased, but of course at least.

Does show the scope has broadened.

Yeah, absolutely.

What were some of your favorite takeaways.

From the interview or from the study?

Yes, sure.

In the study itself, I loved that it points out that our bodies and brains are protected by healthy relationships.

That we are likely to live longer, have less pain as we age, and have less mental decline if we have supportive relationships.

And honestly, I think in my aunt, I'm about to go to her 100th birthday party in two weeks for.

And granted, she's super annoyed that she's still alive because all of her friends are dead, but, you know, they got her pretty far.

And not only did she have that, but she still has my mom and my aunts going out to visit her weekly, if not more than weekly, her kids, her grandkids, her great grandkids.

So she still has people that are supporting her in her life, and she's still living on her own.

I mean, there's people that stay with her, but she is in her house doing whatever it is she can do.

That's amazing because she has wonderful, smart, supportive people in her life.

Yeah.

So I think about her a lot.

And another thing that I took from it was that isolation and loneliness kill at the same rate as smoking and alcoholism.

And that one, like, super stuck out.

That is my number one for sure.

And I think, think because I have, you know, I have those things in my.

In my extended family, in that life, and watching that, I can't.

That was so hard hitting for me.

Yeah.

My heart.

Right.

It's like hard hitting for your heart, which is the point, I suppose.

Right.

And I think it goes into what we want to start talking about is how important relationships are and the toll that that takes on small business ownerships and their relationships before they start, during and towards the end of their career.

Like, there's.

There's this.

This horrible roller coaster that we go on with our relationships and people closest to us, and we don't talk about it enough.

I also just thought of the fact that we've talked about it before, that women business owners are generally in later ages.

Right.

40 Is like the average.

So it's already hard to make friends.

I don't know.

I don't know if it's just me, but the older I get, the less I give a shit, which is great.

But also I feel like if you're not in the I don't give a fuck stage, I might be scary.

Right.

And when you think about that too, you've got those established relationships by that point.

And I feel like at 40, that's when things kind of shifted for me where, oh, I'm friends with you because that I've just always been friends with you to.

I'm putting ties, an investment into this relationship because it actually feeds my soul.

And to then get into the entrepreneurial life and then those things are at risk is.

Is just terrifying.

But you can't stop and fix that because you have to keep going.

There's just so many layers, and it's so hard to show up, which is such a huge part of relationships, is showing up up.

Right.

And our schedules are crazy, and we are the ones that back out on plans.

We're the ones that aren't available.

And then people stop asking you.

Right.

We're going to be hitting on that stuff.

And how we can show you maybe ways you can show up that don't mean you have to not be at your restaurant on a Friday night, which is what happens to me all the time.

Like, please stop.

Please stop doing cool things and asking me to go on a Friday night.

I never will be able to, though, right?

Why can't people want to do things on Wednesdays?

Tuesday, I'm sitting at home bored off my ass.

Right.

So I love that Nita started an app for this.

I think that while it seems ironic and backwards, it also makes complete sense because we are so invested in tech and that's what's keeping us from our relationships, that it's an easier transition than just jumping out into the real world and being like, hi, will you be my first front?

And just goes to show, like, how cyclical life is, that we're back at this point of needing to have human connection but doing it over.

Over technology.

I love that.

Yes.

Well, it's important, relevant.

Talk more about it as we go along this year.

Absolutely.

So make sure you follow us.

Bossy Rock.

Subscribe to this podcast so you get notified whenever Kelly and I are talking about something new.

Well, you won't be disappointed.

You won't be disappointed ever.

No, I'm just kidding.

You will be.

But it's okay.

Be bold, be brave, be the boss.