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Ever wish you could find more joy—rather than stress—in building a business or podcast, even when the obstacles keep coming? Let’s get real about what it actually takes to grow, adapt, and stay inspired.

In this episode, host Harry Duran welcomes Jodi Katz, founder of Base Beauty and host of the “Where Brains Meet Beauty” podcast. Jodi is a pioneering creative force in the beauty, wellness, and personal care industries, and her show is a staple for candid, career-focused conversations with the people shaping the beauty world.

The main focus of the episode centers on how staying agile and being willing to pivot are essential skills for longevity as a business owner and podcast host. Jodi opens up about her nearly two decades of leading an agency, the evolution of her podcast through in-person, virtual, and live audience formats, and the “therapy” she gets from deep, honest conversations that serve both herself and her listeners.

Beyond that, Harry and Jodi dive into the nuts and bolts of running a creative agency, the rise of influencer marketing, how to build meaningful industry connections without traditional networking, and the real anxieties that come with leadership—plus her strategies for staying well, centered, and resilient behind the scenes. You’ll also hear her thoughts on why vulnerability and measured confidence matter more than ever.

Ready to feel seen, inspired, and entertained by honest stories from the trenches of entrepreneurship and podcasting? Listen now and hear strategies you can use to boost your own creativity and find more joy in the journey!

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Key Takeaways

Embrace Change and Agility in Business

Jodi Katz emphasizes the absolute necessity of being able to pivot and remain agile. Staying ahead of the trends and proactively evolving your processes, services, and expertise is vital—if you sit still, your business becomes stagnant.

Build a Podcast Format That Works For You

The evolution of Jodi Katz's podcast—from remote recordings, to studio sessions, to live "listening party" events—demonstrates the value of experimenting with formats. Find the setup that brings you joy, engages your audience, and matches your strengths.

Leverage Your Podcast as a Relationship and Learning Tool

Jodi Katz uses her show as “free business coaching and free therapy,” focusing on genuine, one-on-one conversations. Use your platform not just to educate others, but to learn, build connections, and grow yourself.

Know Your Audience and Target Guests Beyond the Usual Suspects

From the outset, Jodi Katz chose to spotlight not just celebrities and figureheads but also behind-the-scenes experts and lesser-known industry contributors. This approach gives voice to a wider community and builds more authentic relationships.

Prioritize Preparation and Self-Care for High-Performance Days

When hosting back-to-back live podcast recordings, Jodi Katz recommends explicit self-care strategies: prep healthy snacks and drinks, hydrate, get solid rest, and build in reset moments between sessions. This prevents burnout and keeps your energy consistent for both yourself and your audience.

Tweetable Quotes

"We build belief systems for our clients so that this community of fans has something to grab on to. They're part of the culture too. We do that with value and velocity, because everything has to happen so fast."

"In my podcast, I get to be me. I am just myself. The way I am with you is the way I am at CVS, and I just want to be me in my day job too."

"My superpower is listening so closely that it makes the conversation feel complete. I want to make sure that my listeners close the loop, that the questions inspired get answers."

Resources Mentioned

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/basebeautycreativeagency/?hl=en

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodi-katz-7526933/

Podcast Junkies Website: podcastjunkies.com

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Podcast Junkies LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/podcastjunkies

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Podcast Index, Value4Value & NewPodcastApps: https://podcastindex.org/

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1

So what's essential in this business and what hasn't changed since day

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one for me is like, we need to be able to pivot. We need to

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be agile and nimble, and we are. Like, we keep evolving

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the way that we do our work from the process, the types of

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work that we do, the services we offer, the type of experts

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that we need. Because if we sit still, we're dead, right?

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Like, that's the truth. But if we evolve with the

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times and try to stay ahead of what's coming next, then we're going to be

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able to deliver that service to the client that they're looking

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for.

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Welcome back to Podcast Junkies. Today I'm joined by Jodi Katz. She's the founder of

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Base Beauty and the host of Where Brains Meet Beauty. It's a long-running niche

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podcast built around conversations, candid conversations, career

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journeys, and the people shaping the beauty industry. And Jodi, you've

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created a show with a really clear point of view and a strong sense of

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community. So I'm really, really excited to dig into how it started, how you

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positioned it and what it's taken to sustain it over the long haul. So welcome.

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Thank you so much. This is so fun to be here. So you've built a

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really distinctive show with Where Brains Meet Beauty, and it feels like

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something that's rooted in maybe your career journeys, the people you've spoken

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to, honest conversations. And I get the sense you're building up this sense of

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community. So I'd love to start at the beginning. What was happening in your

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world when the idea for this podcast first came to you? What made it feel

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like it was a conversation worth creating? I love answering a question

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like this because it was not my idea. The show was actually

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the idea of my business coach who I had just started working with like

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2 months beforehand. And this was about 10 years ago at

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this point. And he was teaching me like the

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basics of like leading a business. And I've had my business now for

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19 years. So this was not day 1, right? I was already had a

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business and I just kind of felt stuck in it. So I hired a coach

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and he would try to be teaching me and telling me to like go to

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all these networking events. And I'm like, Alan, I don't want to go to a

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Fashion Week party. Please don't make me stand at the bar and try to fight

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for conversation. Like, I just want to go home after the workday, put my

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PJs on and watch The Real Housewives. And I

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told him I'm just not that great in groups. Like, I

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don't know how to navigate, like, getting like part of the

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conversation when there's a lot of voices. But I told him I was really good

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one-on-one. So he took that note back

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with him and he woke up the next morning and he called me and he

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said, Jodi, you should start a podcast. And I would, I said, Alan, why would

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I do that? He said, because you'll get to talk to people one-on-one. Yeah. And

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I believed him. So my team and I Googled how to make a podcast

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and that was, you know, 9 years ago and 300+ episodes

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later, I've gotten the chance to use the show

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selfishly as free business coaching and

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free therapy because we talk about real-world

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stuff. Like, we are not robots in this business, right? We're all human

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beings. We might have kids and dogs and cats and, you know, other things to

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do and be focused on outside of work. And I really

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need other human beings helping me navigate my life. So

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I have it for selfish reasons, but I do get great feedback from our listeners

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that these lessons and wisdom or applicable to their world as well. I love

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that story and it's something that I harp on. Obviously we, you know, started

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roughly around the same time. This show's been going on 11 years. I call

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podcast your virtual stage, which I love because it's like you decide

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yourself. You don't have to wait for opportunities to be on other people's stages. You

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can decide how you wanna build those relationships. And for me it was in the

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podcasting space 'cause I came in with zero visibility, but I quickly

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realized in those early days there was only Skype and call recorder,

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so there was no, I could get the video, but I couldn't record it. But

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I, I knew from day one that I wanted a video. I said, if I'm

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gonna spend an hour with this person, I want them to see my face. I

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want them, I wanna build this relationship. And then I'd go to like Podcast Movement

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and they'd be like, hey Harry, like thanks for that chat. It was really nice.

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And I'm sure it's some, an experience you've had as well. Well, we've had so

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many formats through the years as the technology has advanced like you. So in the

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early days it was, I don't know, a Zoom-like thing. I don't remember what

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it was called. And then we made the move to doing

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live recordings, like face-to-face in a room together, which I love

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so much. So we would rent some spaces and

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studios in New York, and when that became like cost prohibitive, 'cause it, it

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really adds up, we realized that in our WeWork there was a

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room that we could use as a, a recording studio. So we used that for

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a while. Then we, when we built out the office that we're in currently, we

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built out a studio within the office so we have a place to do it.

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There. And of course, during COVID we had to, you know, move to online.

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But the face-to-face experience has been so

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meaningful for me that we actually made the decision last year to move all of

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our recordings to not just live with the guests, but actually

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in front of an audience. So we record all of our episodes at what we

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call listening parties, and we invite industry friends

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to sit in the audience and watch the show get made. That sounds like a

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lot of fun. And a lot of different pivots in terms of the

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formatting. And I know that you have our opening question that says, "What'd you want

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to be when you grew up?" So, that's such a great entry point. What made

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that feel like something that would be like, like an icebreaker or the right way

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into a conversation? Thanks for noticing that. It's actually become quite

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fun to track these. We started this during COVID because we had been in

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person with our guests for many years at that point. Then we had to be

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virtual. And given that this is a career journey show, it just

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became obvious that like we all think about like, you know, our careers very,

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very early in our our lives, right? We have these dreams. I want to be

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an astronaut. I want to be a dancer. I want to be a soccer player.

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And I just asked it on a whim without any, like, actually planning or

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deep thought about it the first time. And like, oh my God, like, there's something

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here. So we've been doing this probably for, at this point, half the

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life of the show. And it's fascinating

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because a lot of times our guests will say, you know, they were daydreaming when

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they were 10 years old. And it's, you know, not that far off from what

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they're doing now. They might not be, like, a professional athlete, but the reasons why

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they wanted to be a professional athlete is actually completely tied

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to this sort of like performance that they deliver in

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their work every day. We've had a lot of people who wanted to be dancers,

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singers, and they actually do perform. You know, they're on QVC

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or they're on TikTok selling their products, right? It's really kind of fascinating.

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So now that we have AI at our fingertips, the team is gonna do

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a deep dive through all those transcripts with AI and ask it to

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pull out like all of the responses so that we can start to have data

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on like 50% of beauty industry leaders wanted to be

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astronauts when they grew up and things like that and have a lot of fun

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with the data. So when you first started the show, how has it

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changed? Like, who specifically did you want to pitch

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it to? Like, did you have an ideal listener in mind when you started? We

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always wanted to have a show that was a platform for

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people that were not just the household names,

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right? So we're happy to have the household names on our show, right? There are

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some notable people who have started and lead beauty brands or

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some celebrities, right, who have their own brands and happy to have those

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people on our show. But it was really important to us

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that we also have those people who are behind the scenes because

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I always felt like an outsider in the beauty industry. I didn't work at

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Estée Lauder or Coty and any of these big companies. I was sort of like

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a different path. So I didn't want this to be just another

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vehicle for notable people. I wanted to make sure that we were elevating the

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voices of the people who are working hard every day. And we stayed true to

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that through the years, which I'm really proud of. And, you know, those are our

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clients on the agency side. We have our own agency called Base Beauty,

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and we've had that— I've had that business for 19 years. So who are our

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clients? It's not the celebrity. The celebrity is not in the thick of the work

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with us, right? It's the people behind the scenes who are super smart and very

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passionate. And I want to make sure their voices were heard. So I definitely want

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to give you the opportunity to plug the agency as well. So without going too

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deep into the weeds here, but talk a little bit about How it started and

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who do you serve? Great question. I love this. So I'll tell you what we

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do first and then I'll go back in time. We are a creative agency and

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we focus in 4 categories. That's beauty, wellness,

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personal care, and aesthetics. So those are the only places we play. We're

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not working on fast food or automotive clients, but within those

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categories, we're experts in creative, social media,

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influencer, and PR. And we choose those areas of focus because

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that's where we're able to build trust and relevance with the consumer. And

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without trust and relevance, you have nothing, right? You just have, you know, some goop

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in a jar. So that's what we focus on every day. And I created the

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agency 19 years ago because I saw a white space. I was

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working as the creative director of a French beauty company. I was in

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New York and I needed to give overflow work to agency

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partners who can help us with our workflow. And I couldn't find any

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specialists in beauty and fragrance and skincare. I only

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found a whole bunch of like sort of fashion boutique agencies. So it

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got me thinking, well, if there's a white space, why don't I fill it?

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So from that first moment after I left that full-time role, we at

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Base Beauty have been focusing on those categories: aesthetics, beauty, personal care,

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and wellness, and being as robust in our offering as

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possible so that the benefit to the client is a really strong partner

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across all those different functions. You said 19 years?

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19 years. Yeah. Well, congrats on approaching the 20-year mark. I know as

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an entrepreneur myself, it's, uh, A series of ups and downs for sure.

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Well, interesting you've mentioned that cuz I can't do this without the

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business coaching that I've had now for 10 years and weekly therapy.

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And I'm also not afraid to be vulnerable. Yeah. So we'll go there together now,

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Harry. It's taken me 19 years to get

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to the point where I had this idea in my head this weekend. Why am

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I expecting it to be easy? Yeah. Like, So it took me

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19 years to realize like my perfectionist tendency

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is sort of trying to paint a picture of a story of what it's like

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to run a business. And it's false. It doesn't make any sense.

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So as of today, you're meeting me that first day where I am going to

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move through the world knowing that there's bumps in the road, knowing that that's

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to be expected, 'cause that's where we learn and we grow. And

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hopefully realizing this and accepting it will

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make those hard things a little less hard for me. I love that. And it's

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so true. And, and unless you've been in the trenches and doing it, it's hard

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to relate. And it's, you know, that first day when you don't get that check

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deposited in your account, you know, as a paycheck and you're like, oh, like I

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gotta figure this out myself. And then the journey that goes on from there. But

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I appreciate you being vulnerable. What do you think shifted for you to

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have that realization? I wish I knew because maybe I would've

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had more serenity. The past 19 years if I was able to

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realize this. You know, I'm definitely a recovering perfectionist and I

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thought a lot of those tendencies sort of washed away.

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And I realize this is really deeply rooted in this idea

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that like there is a perfect out there, that we shouldn't be

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uncomfortable. And that's just not real life. And it's

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certainly not business, right? Even if I wasn't running the business, if I was

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an employee in a business, not every day is easy. Right? So I wish

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I knew why I couldn't peel that onion sooner, but I'm

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glad that I did today. And I look forward

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to, you know, moving through this entrepreneurial life and growing in

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the agency with that acceptance so that I can have more

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serenity and also more joy and fun in the work. Yeah, that's so important,

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especially now with everything that's happening in the world, that if we don't have the

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opportunity to enjoy what we're doing, then we should be questioning why we're doing it

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in the first place. Right. Howie, that's actually something I work with my

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coach on a lot. When I feel stuck or really frustrated,

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he points me back to my joy. Like, where is my joy in this?

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And it's a common thread through the past 10 years

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because I'm not doing this because someone forced me

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to, right? I chose this path. I really believe

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that Base Beauty is excellent at what we do and that more and more clients

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should come and find us and use us as a resource. And I believe this

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business can grow in the way that I imagine. But I

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don't want to feel like it's torture. I want to have joy in my

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work. I want to show my team how fun this can be, this

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adventure. I want to show my kids and, you know, be a role model for

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my kids that, like, hard work pays off. So I do

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need that reminder, though, to find my joy. And we're always able to find it.

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We're always able to pinpoint, like, one thing, even in a really hard situation where

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I can tap into that joy. Well, I appreciate you reminding me because,

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and hopefully I don't have to wait another 8 years to

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find my serenity. I think conversations like this are sometimes serendipitous

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and, you know, having them in the right time. So, you know, the more I

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was looking into like your backstory, I was like, I'm excited to like have this

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conversation. And it's one of the reasons why I love the platform so much

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and having this stage. So I'm curious in your role as

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a host, what have you noticed? Like how have you developed? How have you grown

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from those like early day one recordings to how you feel comfortable behind the mic

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now? Well, thankfully now I have a producer

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who is really focused on making it

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easy for me to do what I do. So we have

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organized our show into quarterly themes and we build quarterly

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themes around either things that interest us or something that's happening in the industry.

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So, uh, for example, our theme for Q1 this year was called Power

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Duos. And we brought guests that actually like

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work together as a duo. So we have had some husband and wife

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teams, sisters, people from different generations, but they work

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very closely together. And, or like unlikely

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pairings, you know, someone who's like super finance-minded versus, and someone who's

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super creative-minded and how they work together. So it was a theme that was

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interesting to us cuz when we get, would get pitched guests, we're like, oh, isn't

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that interesting? They're sisters, they're husband and wife, you know, they're brothers.

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So that power duo's theme really sets the tone for like then

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what— her name is Natasha— what Natasha and I do together, which is, you know,

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reach out to our network for guests. So we get pitched by publicists, but we

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also know a lot of people. So we go out to our friends in the

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industry and ask if they have recommendations. Then what we do to

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build the listening party is we have 6 slots for recording all in

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one day. So we're recording 6 episodes in one day, back to

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back in front of a live audience. So this is why

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I need Natasha, because if I had to do all of those

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intake calls myself, prep all of those questions myself,

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and then like be on a stage right in front of an audience for

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6 straight hours, I don't think it would have— it would be

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sustainable for me. Right. I really need that partner in the work. Where are you

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recording? We record in our office. So Base Beauty has an office in Midtown New

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York, and we set up a really pretty

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space for— it's almost like a horseshoe format.

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We are at the table, I'm at the table with my guests, and then in

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a horseshoe format, the listeners are sitting there. And then we have food and

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drinks in another room. So in between episode recordings,

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people are taking pictures with our guests and, you know, meeting people, but then they're

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also able to get snacks. We always want to feed people. And it's an open

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house format. So people are coming and going, you know, based on their schedule,

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they pop in for an episode or two, then they go, you know, finish their

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work for the day. I love that format. And is there, there's an audience there

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too, so you invite people into, into the office, right? So it's a way for

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us to celebrate our network, right? We have a lot of friends in the

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industry, clients, former clients, so we invite them to

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sit in the room and they become part of the show too, right? There's

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a lot of interactivity between the guests at the table recording with me and the

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people in the audience. People are laughing and clapping or

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shouting things out. And that's a dynamic that I need too. You know,

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after 300 episodes, I don't wanna hear myself anymore,

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right? I really want to hear the voices of the people that I'm interviewing

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and our friends and industry, other industry leaders who

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can contribute. Have you noticed in yourself your ability

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to hold, maintain, continue conversations has improved?

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Because for myself personally, I find that now I can be a better listener,

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ask more open-ended questions, pull threads. And I'm curious if you've noticed like that skill

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for you. I think it's my superpower. I, I'm

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a really excellent listener, which is where the energy is

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required, especially for the back-to-back recording. I'm

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really listening so hard because I'm genuinely curious.

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And I'm genuinely curious because I need your help,

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right? If you're in the chair as a guest, I need your help. You might

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not know it. You don't know. You might not know you're my therapist for the

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day, but all of my questions, all my

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curiosity is coming from a really authentic place, which is I'm alone in

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running this business, you know, as the sole CEO. I've been doing this a long

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time. This industry is wackadoo sometimes. There's pressures, you know,

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outside of anything that we can control that we have to navigate. Every

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minute of the day, something changes in algorithms or whatnot of what

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best practices are. So I come to it with that genuine

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curiosity, supported by the fact that Natasha has done a lot of prep for me.

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And we talk to each other through the computer screen that I have to my

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side when I'm interviewing, right? So if something is said by one of the

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guests and it comes up and it's relevant, so, you know, something that's important to

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me, she'll leave me a note or highlight something. Which is actually, you know, for

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me, it's super fun. I'm like, I have a friend on the other side of

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the wall who's helping me here, and it makes me smile. But yeah, my

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superpower is, I think, listening so closely that it makes the

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conversation feel really complete. And,

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Hari, that comes also from the fact that I've been in so many rooms where

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these panel discussions and moderators doing their job,

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and the guest will say something, and like, I'm like, the obvious

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follow-up question is to ask ABC, and they just move

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on to their, to their next question. The card's like, oh my God, this is

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the secret to the universe, and you could have asked that question and we could

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have gotten that answer. So I've been frustrated and

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disappointed so many times that like, I wanna be that for my

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listeners. I wanna make sure that they close the loop, right? That the questions that

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are top of mind that are being inspired, that they get answers.

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Everyone needs a Natasha. Yeah. I always say in a

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podcast conversation, there's 3 people, the host, the guest, and the listener.

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Thank you, Laura. Like one person is listening to us having this conversation now. And

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if we don't lose sight of that, and you have a live audience, you have

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the benefit of seeing the people that are listening in that moment, but it's always

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helpful to make it like an all-encompassing conversation. 'Cause it's not

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as much as like we're having this conversation, you and me, it's eventually gonna get

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published. And I always wanna create that environment for folks as

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well. So, well, Hari, I think about that because very early on, like year

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1 of the show, I got a note from someone in my network who said

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she listened to the show and what was being discussed was so important to

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her and she was driving at the time, she pulled over to the side of

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the road and started taking notes. Okay, so that's what I think about. Are all

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of my listeners pulling over to the side of the road to take notes? Probably

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not, but somebody is, right? And

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I am in service to them to make sure that they get, you know, if

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I wanna glean wisdom, I want them to as well. So that's what's always on

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my mind is that type of listener who's like really desperate and

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craving for that humanity. In understanding their career journey

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within the beauty industry. Did you always have that superpower? My

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superpower is like the overall one. And if you

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go to my LinkedIn, it says under my name, I'm a fortune teller.

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So it's seeing 10 steps ahead and I'm listening for what's 10

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steps ahead, right? So the listening comes out of that, right? I have a

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really strong trust of my instincts. I piece things

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together very quickly. I see trends very quickly.

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And I'm able to create something that actually means

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something out of all these inputs. And because I'm able to do that,

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it makes the listening skills really strong, right? Because

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I'm listening for what's next. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, I can definitely relate.

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And how far back can you remember, like, doing that? Well,

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early in my career, I would call myself like a brat or a

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jerk, like in my 20s. I, you know, graduated from

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college, got a good job, thought I was smarter than everybody who had

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been working in the industry for 30 years. And

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I was, you know, probably pretty disrespectful. I didn't understand

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hierarchy and I didn't respect it. Kind of some of that is this,

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though. You know, it's like there is something inside of me that said, like, you

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guys are missing something, right? You're not seeing the whole picture. You're only seeing this,

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like, you know, this moment in time. You're not thinking about what's next.

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And that trend would follow me through the years where, you know, I think it's

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sort of, I had no choice but to become my own, you know,

346

business owner and not have a boss and to set my own sort of

347

intentions in my work that I could see through to the end

348

without, you know, interruption from other people's positions or

349

decision making. So yeah, I think it's like there was just

350

something inside of me since I was, you know, much younger. That

351

knew something was out there. I couldn't have articulated it then. I really was, you

352

know, a brat. But, you know, once I started, you know, being more serious

353

in the marketing space and the beauty industry, you know, late 20s, early

354

30s, I saw this skill developing. And then over time, I just

355

decided to trust it. So if I spoke to your parents or your close friends,

356

they wouldn't be surprised by what you did? Well, interesting.

357

Like, my parents, I'm sure, like, not surprised, but

358

I show up in the world very differently now than I did, you know, in

359

my earlier career. I am so measured

360

in my work and I really just wanna find the point from A to B

361

that can create the most success for us, but also the most

362

serenity. And I think this is one of the reasons why

363

I love like watching reality TV, like the Real Housewives and all these shows,

364

Below Deck and stuff, Summer House. I love these shows because these

365

people make, you know, throw temper tantrums,

366

right, as a part of their daily life. And I don't, right? I'm

367

choosing measured because I know measured is better for me, even though I want to

368

throw a temper tantrum, right? And the work is hard, so there's plenty of moments

369

for temper tantrums. But watching these people throw their temper

370

tantrums, like, it feels so good for me. It's like an outlet.

371

But I will always choose the measured path. And it's something I'm sure

372

that's lessons learned over the years that have a hard effect.

373

How big is the agency now? We're about 20 people. We're based in

374

Midtown New York and our clients are all over the country

375

and we have 3 divisions. There's the creative team, the

376

social media team, and the PR and influencer team, and they work very holistically

377

together for our clients. It's been a lot— it's a tumultuous industry, isn't it? Like

378

beauty and trends and obviously with everything happening with social, there's prob—

379

I mean, you were there for the birth of it and I'm so happy Facebook

380

wasn't around when I was growing up. There's stuff that I see

381

online right now that just people are posting everything. So talk to me a little

382

bit about that, like growing up in that era when that wasn't a

383

function of our daily lives and how that's connected to what's

384

happening in your space. Well, this is so interesting because we were

385

there for the birth of social media being a marketing tool. My team

386

years ago actually built the first influencer programs ever. Our

387

client at the time was Clinique, which is one of the biggest beauty brands out

388

there. And we built like what influencer marketing looks like. And many

389

of those tactics we developed early on are still best practices today.

390

So yeah, we've been on the front lines of this work for, you know,

391

much longer than many agencies even existed. And what that

392

gives us is incredible institutional knowledge and very, very deep

393

industry knowledge. So when these changes happen

394

and they happen every day, things out of our control in the marketing ecosystem,

395

we can rely on that foundation, right, to make informed

396

decisions about how to handle what's coming next. And the

397

kind of funny thing about being a marketing LMPD or any other category

398

is that when something new hits, right, a new algorithm, a new

399

platform, a new whatever, nobody knows the answers, right?

400

An agency with 1,000 people doesn't know more than we know. But

401

what we can rely on is all of those years of that institutional and industry

402

knowledge to inform like, Hey, well, we had this other thing, you know, that

403

was invented and launched 5 years ago, and this is how we handled it. Let's

404

try to modify something around there, you know, use what the data that we

405

have to inform our decision making. So

406

what's essential in this business and what hasn't changed since day one for me is

407

like we need to be able to pivot. We need to be agile

408

and nimble. And we are like, we keep evolving the way that we do

409

our work from the process, the types of work that we do,

410

the services we offer. The type of experts that we need, because

411

if we sit still, we're dead, right? Like, that's the truth.

412

But if we evolve with the times and try to stay ahead of what's

413

coming next, then we're going to be able to deliver that service to the client

414

that they're looking for. That's an interesting way to have been in that space early

415

on, then seeing that the influencers were an important part of this

416

area as well. There's a company called Glycen. I'll connect you with them later,

417

but I'm an advisor to them and they focus on the influencer space. And help

418

you find and work with influencers and do a lot of AI-based

419

research into trends and stuff, which is a fascinating space to watch as

420

well. And I imagine with the beauty space, with the new

421

administration in terms of like what we can put in beauty products now

422

or what needs to be taken out of products, I'm sure companies are like really

423

scrambling to figure out how they compete or how they

424

reposition themselves in this new environment. Well, the scrambling is

425

happening for a whole lot of reasons, right? Tariffs and, you know, the tariffs

426

coming and going is very complicated for our clients. You know, what

427

we offer our clients is our true

428

understanding of culture, right? So beauty is like

429

fashion at the center of culture. And my team's

430

language is culture, right? So they know like how much

431

cultural gravity is created by like a service, a product, a

432

treatment that you love. And it forms a belief system. So that's what

433

we do. We build belief systems for our clients

434

so that this cohort, this community of fans have something to

435

grab on to. They're part of the culture too. So we do

436

that with what we call value and velocity, right? Because everything has to happen

437

so fast. And by the way, like no one's spending the amount of money on

438

marketing they used to, right, 20 years ago. So we have to do more with

439

less, but it has to be high quality. It has to be intentional. It has

440

to be high performing, right? So there's a lot of pressures on the

441

team to get this right. And our clients have a ton of pressure too, right?

442

If the campaign doesn't work, they're scared they're going to lose their job. Right. These

443

are real concerns. But we're at the center of culture and we're

444

at the— our work happens where culture converts. So

445

in beauty, and maybe beauty is unique here versus other industries,

446

you cannot be a brand and market in a surface-level way.

447

It doesn't work like the customer sees through it. They know you're not real

448

or you're not invested. What happens when culture converts is we're

449

speaking to the cohorts within a target

450

that are like genuinely deeply interested in investing their

451

time and their money into your skincare product or your haircare

452

product or your, you know, fitness studio. So we actually,

453

we have a chart in our capabilities deck that's like all these different

454

cohorts, right? The biohackers, the longevity fans, the

455

fragheads, the skin enthusiasts. All these different cohorts and they

456

behave a little different from each other and we have to talk to them in

457

really unique ways. Those are our fans, those are our future customers.

458

That's where loyalty is built and that's where we're able to tell those

459

stories around trust and relevance. I was making

460

sure I could keep up with all of the cohorts. I almost lost you at

461

Fragheads, but is that fragrance? Okay. Fragrance, right? Big fragrance

462

fans. Then there's Skinthusiasts. So this would be— I'm sure you have some friends like

463

this. They're not estheticians, they're not dermatologists, but by the way they

464

speak, you think that they are, right? They're so invested in the education

465

around skincare and high-performance medical-grade skincare. So they're the

466

person that you turn to if you're like, should I get Botox? Should I get

467

filler? And then there's, you know, there's biohackers are always looking for ways to

468

improve like their longevity and their health, right? So I mean,

469

that's just a small segment of who's out there, but that's what the work my

470

team is doing because we're at the center of culture, right? And that drills down

471

really deeply into these individual cohorts. Yeah, it seems like you have to people

472

who keep their finger on the pulse with what's happening, not only in terms of

473

the industries themselves, like for the biohackers community, that's obviously big in the entrepreneurial

474

space as well. And all these longevity clinics that are opening up and,

475

you know, it feels like people are becoming more, taking more responsibility for their

476

health. So with AI, they're like, like I did myself, I dropped my results

477

into ChatGPT and I'm like, you know, I'm having a longer conversation with

478

ChatGPT than I am with my doctor because I, because they're going deeper, you know,

479

and I can ask questions that I feel like I'm imposing. So, what trends, you

480

know, obviously AI could be one of them, but what are you seeing that are

481

the big trends that are affecting your space now? Well, I think that the trends

482

are really about how we deliver information to customers, right? So

483

because we have so many cohorts and they're all sort of unique in what

484

they're looking for, we have to find ways to make our

485

clients' resources go further than ever. Right. So

486

maybe you're a brand with a Gen X target that's not the

487

end of it, right? Like, what world are they part of? Are they skin enthusiasts

488

or are they, you know, people who would— they call skip care, meaning like they

489

want one product that does 9 things. They do not— they don't want to spend

490

a ton of time doing their skincare. Like, we need to understand where

491

those customers are, like what they relate to, and then we can tell really rich

492

stories. So then the team is creating, you know, ad campaigns

493

really targeting that customer. They're developing social media programs

494

really targeting those customers. We're doing PR and influencer programs very

495

targeted to those customers. So like I said, we can't be surface here,

496

right? In this industry, we have to be very specific. But if we can win

497

over one target and one cohort, well, then we can take those learnings and

498

be like, oh, you know what, Gen X was our initial target, but we think

499

that the millennials will like this because X, Y, Z. Let's replicate what we're doing,

500

but for that audience, right? So we're able to test and learn with one

501

audience and then bring those learnings and apply it to others and build more

502

momentum for our clients. Yeah, it sounds like you have to have folks on the

503

team who can keep their finger on the pulse of even naming

504

what the current generation is named to, because I lose track at some point.

505

That's right. Well, my team loves this world, right? People who work at Base

506

Beauty just really want to be at the center of culture. That comes with

507

also like all the tea spilling, right? Like we're— they're so close

508

into like who these people are, who's moving the needle

509

and You know, some of these people become friends of my team, right? Like

510

they're people in their world. Our clients are at the center of culture. We

511

have, you know, clients who are notable people. So there's something that's really

512

quite fun about moving pop culture forward and the fact that we get to do

513

this in an industry that makes people feel good and informs them,

514

helps them make decisions. It's really quite fun. It sounds like the way

515

you describe the show and the conversations, you really want to

516

give a stage to people who are in this industry who have stories to tell.

517

And are there any common threads that have been happening through these conversations,

518

success stories, people talking about the same issues that you've noticed over time?

519

Yes, great question. The theme, and we just heard from Power Duos, which

520

was a Q1 show, was all about trust,

521

right? We were talking to two people who work together closely,

522

and the word trust kept coming up in so many conversations

523

and used in multiple ways, right? I have to trust that my business

524

partner, you know, will make the right allocation decisions for

525

product in the warehouse. I have to trust my business partner that they're going to,

526

you know, develop content and marketing that's going to help us sell the product that's

527

sitting in the warehouse. Right. So the trust theme is really quite beautiful

528

to see. Like I said, we had sisters, we had husbands and wives,

529

we had life partners, we had best friends, and then unlikely

530

pairings as well. So That was actually really reassuring for

531

me in that moment because, you know, I have to have trust in my team

532

too, right? Like, I can't do this alone and I

533

don't want to do it alone also, right? That would be a really kind of

534

sad way to run a business. So that's a very

535

fruitful theme for Power Doers, and I would imagine that's going to continue. I think

536

it's also a theme that's relevant to where we are today. Like, the world is

537

topsy-turvy. You really just need to trust in someone and something

538

to be able to get through the day. And as you've been having these

539

conversations and over the years and the show has grown, was there

540

a point where it was like an inflection point or like, I can't believe this

541

just happened at the show, like a milestone moment? Or— I'd say one of the

542

milestone moments for me was this is pre-COVID. So the show is about

543

maybe 4 years old, 4 or 5 years old at this point. And

544

we knew that doing the show, you know,

545

one-on-one or over a Zoom-like tool is fine.

546

But we also thought like, you know, there's people who really wanna be around the

547

show as it gets made. So I had a friend who introduced me to

548

the head of beauty at Saks Fifth Avenue, which is a notable department store.

549

And this woman, Kate, said yes to my idea. And my idea was,

550

let's bring the podcast onto the retail floor and invite your

551

customers and our industry friends to come and watch the show get made, you know,

552

and to be a part of it. And because it's Saks, every

553

single show that we did there— and we did many on the floor in New

554

York City at their flagship— their beautiful events and

555

every time every single seat was filled. And of course, you know, it was like

556

they had waiters passing hors d'oeuvres, they had a DJ, like they had

557

gorgeous decor. They like really made it a moment and they understood the

558

power of drawing in this event to also then

559

push people to the retail floor. Right. So then they were able to collect data

560

on, well, if we animate the store in this way, will it drive

561

sales? And the answer was yes. So what I'm also really

562

proud of from all of those shows, and I would always do like an informal

563

survey at the top of the recording, I'd ask like, who is here just

564

because they wandered by and then took a seat? Or were you here because, you

565

know, we marketed the event and you showed up? And 99% of

566

everybody who responded to my informal survey said they came for this

567

purpose. So that shows me like retail has the opportunity

568

to animate in a new way beyond just having products on a shelf or behind

569

a counter. Animate in a new way, bring events like our podcast to

570

their stores and to their floors and bring in

571

new customers that would not have been wandering in otherwise. I love that. It's like

572

it seems like your marketing brain is always like on for these opportunities.

573

Well, I mean, I love retail, you know, and retail is, you know,

574

Saks and other stores. It's a very challenging time for them. They really

575

needed to pivot a long time ago. Right. So the businesses are really struggling.

576

But this type of discovery that you can have and that feeling you

577

have when you find something you like in a store that you like, it's entertainment,

578

right? It makes you feel good. And I'm actually like a perfect

579

target for this because I actually hate shopping. Like, I don't want to try things

580

on, you know, I don't want to return things if they don't fit. You know,

581

it just sort of feels like a hassle. But if you can engage me in

582

a shopping experience, you can engage anybody. So I would love to

583

see our show move back to some retail floors

584

and bring in that entertainment and education value to

585

the environment and draw in more shoppers. I love that. If we're having this

586

conversation a year from now, what would need to have happened for you

587

to be happy with the progress of the show? Oh, just like keep doing it.

588

Like, like I said, it is free therapy for me. It's free business coaching.

589

I get to, you know, first of all, I get to invite friends to the

590

show, right? People I've known for a long time. I get to twist the arms

591

of friends that I've known for a long time who've been resistant to come on

592

this show, and then they do and they like it. I get to meet so

593

many new people, people I would never have met, you know, with all the conferences

594

and all the meetings I have, I still can't meet everybody, right? So I

595

get to sit down and have really honest, frank, vulnerable

596

conversations with people that, you know, you can't do that over

597

the phone. You can't be like, hey, like, let me send you an email and

598

you'll talk vulnerably to me. Like, that doesn't happen. Somehow magically happens on a

599

podcast, right? Well, I had a client for many

600

years and we did, you know, photo shoots together and

601

like created content together. So we were in front of each other quite a bit

602

for many years. But when you're in these work environments, like, the work is what

603

we're doing, right? That's what's coming first. When she came onto my show,

604

I learned so much about her, things that she never revealed, and I really

605

couldn't ask. Yeah, like, you know, sitting there watching the

606

photo shoot happen, right? But because of the podcast, because the

607

topic of the podcast is really about you,

608

career journey, right? It's not about what you're selling at work, right? It's about you.

609

It opens the door for people to drop their guard and

610

relax into the fact that like they actually do wanna talk about this and they

611

need someone to talk about it with too, right? Because they're, you know, alone in

612

their head just as much as I am. Regarding the show, what do you wish

613

someone had told you earlier? Well, you know, it's interesting because

614

with this show I had no preconceived notion of

615

what this could become. Harry, with my business, like,

616

that's where all the anxiety and the stress and like mentalness

617

comes into play, because in my head the business was supposed to do X, Y,

618

and Z in a certain amount of time, blah, blah, blah. But with the podcast,

619

it's like, I'll just give it a try. I don't, you know, there's no expectation

620

here. So I would say the podcast has taught me that I can

621

sort of rewrite what the business purpose is, right? I

622

can, like I said earlier, like drop my guard a little bit on what the

623

story of the business is, relax into it more, not

624

pretend that perfection is even attainable, relax into

625

the bumps in the road. So having the podcast and like the way I behave

626

with the podcast and my sort of like lightness about it and how much I

627

enjoy it, it's really taught me that I can try to achieve some more

628

of that in my business. So how's it changed? And it sounds like it has,

629

like how you lead. Well, in my podcast, I

630

get to be me, right? Like, I am just me. This is just who I

631

am. The way I am with you is the way that I am, you know,

632

at CVS. And I just want to be me in my

633

day job too, right? And sometimes it's like, well, I'm— there's

634

the CEO Jodi. Yeah. And then there's the Jodi Jodi, the

635

CVS. And right, this is Jodi.

636

And well, sometimes I have to be CEO Jodi, right?

637

But for the most part, I really just want to be CBS Jodi

638

or, you know, see you in town Jodi or like see you at the gym

639

Jodi. So I have this outlet that lets me be myself and ask the

640

questions that are really top of mind. I would say like I do get to

641

be that way mostly in my business except, you know, when CEO Jodi has

642

to step in and my COO Sarah would, you know, sometimes

643

present like a challenging decision to me and I'd say to her,

644

well, Jodi, Jody wants it this way. She's like, but I need to know what

645

CEO Jody wants, right? So, but for the most part, I get to be

646

myself. And earlier in my career, I was playing a

647

role, right? I wasn't really me. I was like who I thought I'm supposed to

648

be. So this being the host of a podcast, it's really

649

relaxed me into just like, you know, I love myself, I like myself, I want

650

to show up as myself. I just have this tendency to bounce between the entrepreneurial

651

questions and the podcast questions, but What was your most important hire

652

at the agency? Oof. I mean, that's like sort of like seasons,

653

right? So most important early on was actually just being able to

654

hire somebody, right? There was, so there was me and then I would have a

655

whole bunch of freelancers, right? So I'd only pay them when I had a project

656

for them and that's fine, but you know, chaotic. And then I was

657

doing that with, you know, someone again and again and she turned to

658

me and she was early in her career. She's like, I really need a full-time

659

job. And I'm like, I don't know if I can give you a full-time job,

660

right? So being able to get to the point where I gave somebody a full-time

661

job was amazing. And then, well, then she needed

662

healthcare, right? I'm like, oh my. So it was like, oh, now I can provide

663

you healthcare. I can figure that out. So those early moments

664

of this actually becoming real and rooted, that's

665

really like very special. But then it's also like these other

666

seasons in the business where I'm like, hmm, for me to get from point A

667

to point B, like I'm gonna need a different type of thinker. I'm gonna need

668

a different level of expertise. That's

669

expensive. How am I gonna afford that? Right? So being able to build up the

670

revenue in the business and the stability of the business to be able to make

671

those hires with experience, I mean, that's thrilling. Yeah. Right there.

672

There's things that happen in my business every day that I don't know

673

about, but I used to know everything. Yeah. Right. And I had to, 'cause I

674

was, you know, one of very few. I get so tickled and like

675

so many feelings of delight when I find out things I didn't know. Right. Because

676

I I have this incredible team that puts out great work and that makes our

677

clients happy and, you know, creates growth for them at the center of

678

culture, right? So all these things that are important to my team. So yeah, I

679

like it. My heart like gets all like tickly and happy when I hear

680

these things. And there's, you know, there's problems that happen that I don't know about

681

that get fixed. That's a delight. I mean, that's so

682

exciting. Yeah, it's always a great feeling. It must be to have things

683

being taken care of. Things that are— maybe you'd probably do them the same

684

way, but now that you've had people under you that you've trained in your

685

vision and what you, you know, how you like to do things,

686

when they can start to do them unaided, that's got to be a really good

687

feeling, right? Well, I have a team now where like we have

688

like experienced leadership and that doesn't

689

always just apply to the client work. Certainly does on a daily basis,

690

but problems in the office, problems with staffing, like to be able to turn to

691

people who have experience and I'm not in it alone, right?

692

Like I have people who've been there to talk to.

693

I mean, that feeling will never fade, you know, because for so many years, you

694

know, I was really like the decision maker on everything and I was sort of

695

felt like I was making decisions in the dark, you know. And then when

696

I brought on an experienced COO and

697

CFO all of a sudden they flicked on the light switch

698

and, you know, what they found was kind of scary, but they fixed it, you

699

know, and now we make decisions in the light, you know,

700

informed decisions. It's such a good feeling. It's such a special feeling. So

701

I would, you know, to answer your questions more succinctly, there's different seasons, different moments

702

of people, and that will continue. There's going to, you know, there's things in the

703

future where like I'm going to set my sight on a next goal and we're

704

going to need, you know, a different type of hire for that. I can't wait.

705

I'm so excited. Well, I, I really have enjoyed this conversation and to

706

hear about your journey. It's been inspiring and a lot of fun, and I love

707

the enthusiasm and the energy you've brought to this conversation and that you bring to

708

your podcast as well. I think that's what makes it fun for you to keep

709

going. And I have a couple questions I ask as we wrap up these

710

conversations. The first one is, what is something that you've changed your mind about

711

recently? Harry just asked me a very hard question, which is why there's

712

silence. And I love silence in the podcast because I, I

713

remind people that's what happens in a real conversation.

714

Right. So Harry asked me what recently I've changed my mind about,

715

and I'm a little stumped. I'm a very

716

decisive person and I'm not afraid to make

717

decisions, even the hard ones. I also

718

have learned to trust myself. So nothing is

719

coming to mind because, you know, certainly I've made decisions that like maybe didn't go

720

our way. But like, that's the learning, right? And I do know that

721

like every brick wall I run through has like a lot of valuable learning, like

722

almost like equal to money on the other side. But I'm stumped here, Harry.

723

I mean, sometimes people give me answers that are as simple as I switched from

724

coffee to tea. I don't drink coffee, so I

725

don't think I ever will. What is the most misunderstood thing about you?

726

Oh, okay. So the most misunderstood thing about me I

727

think it's that people think that this is all easy for me,

728

right? I told you I show up measured and I have a lot of joy.

729

So usually with a smile. And I actually have like a

730

ton of anxiety about this. Like, this is so hard

731

and like it would be hard on a normal day, but you have to add

732

in the volatility of the marketplace to it, right? Every client we have

733

has a CFO who's decided, no, we're not spending money because of the volatility. Which

734

means, well, how do we make money, right? So, and that's just

735

one place where there's instability in the marketplace. There's many others.

736

So, you know, I go to sleep at night thinking about, you know,

737

these, you know, scary thoughts about like, you know, what kind of pivots do we

738

need to make to be able to keep the business or get the business in

739

these business— in these marketplace conditions? I wake up in the morning with those

740

same concerns. Are we staffed right for this work? Are

741

we, you know, do we have the right timeline for this work, right? Even though

742

I'm not in the work every day the way I was years ago, well, it's

743

certainly still on my mind, right? So I think people would think

744

like it's just kind of easy breezy for me and it's really not.

745

Well, I appreciate, you know, I love these long-form conversations 'cause they're an opportunity

746

for you to be honest about what's happening in your world and not

747

try to paint a picture of something that's not there. And I think people

748

listening also can appreciate, especially if you're, whether it's on the podcasting

749

side or business side or career side, like I think

750

we need to be more upfront about saying these things out

751

loud and the fact that it's okay. Like therapy has been extremely

752

helpful for me and I've talked about my coming out of the spiritual closet

753

journey as well on the show and just all these little things that in the

754

past would be taboo. And I think we need to realize that there's a

755

human being on the other side of these conversations that are struggling with stuff.

756

And I've had that same experience of like waking up anxious because of

757

business-related stuff or losing a big client. And it's just like,

758

I wasn't, you know, and it's on the days you least expected and least wanted.

759

So I appreciate you being open to that as well. Well, no one

760

ever wants to lose a client, but I can tell you that like, if

761

I'm like well fed and hydrated and I had enough sleep,

762

when these things happen, I really am able to see them as like

763

opportunities. Right. And we've had times, you know,

764

growing pains or like we had a client that was very high

765

profile, had very, you know, significant needs and we were not meeting their

766

needs. And it was a mess and it was a really important client to me.

767

And, but what I learned from that is like, oh, we don't have the right

768

process, we don't have the right people. And I like, where can you get that

769

lesson, right? And first of all, the client's paying us, so we're being paid to

770

learn in some sense, right? So we completely rebuilt the way that

771

we do our work and the way that we staff our work so that we

772

can be great at this. 'Cause I knew we could be, right? It hurt that

773

we weren't, being great at it, but we rebuilt it

774

and now we are beyond great at it. So if I'm not well fed,

775

if I'm not well rested and not well hydrated, I'm not, I'm not

776

able to see the positive. But you know, once I sort of get myself

777

rooted in those basics, I'm able to realize like how fundamentally

778

exciting it is to be able to live that way. Nobody wants to be in

779

the hangry zone. No, I'm not good as hangry.

780

You don't wanna be around the hangry person. Well, thanks again, Jodi. I really, really

781

enjoyed this conversation and getting to know you. And about the show and about the

782

agency. Is there anything else that you haven't shared or anything that's coming to mind?

783

Yeah, I want to give something that I learned. If anyone out there

784

wants to do these like marathon days of live recording in front of an audience,

785

I want to share my like checklist of how I actually get through the day,

786

okay? Because I had to work through this in therapy and coaching to get there

787

because it is a big day. First of all, the night before I do like

788

food prep, you know, as if I was like going to a sports thing. Like

789

I make like an almond butter sandwich. I get my

790

coconut water bottle ready. I make sure I have a big

791

water bottle. I make sure I have all the snacks that I need, and I

792

try to get a good night's sleep. Then in the morning, I will have like

793

a really hearty breakfast, like a bacon, egg, and cheese, you know, something that's like,

794

like so hearty there's no way I'm getting hungry anytime fast. Right,

795

right. And I will take preventative

796

Excedrin. So I take Excedrin with my breakfast.

797

Because it has the caffeine, which is nice too, but it's going to help with

798

any migraines that are going to come on. And inevitably they will come

799

on because of all that intense listening, right? I'm

800

not breathing, right? I'm like listening but not breathing. So

801

I take the Excedrin early in the day to prevent that migraine that will ultimately

802

have come later when, when the adrenaline wears off. And then

803

in between each episode, I go into a closed-door room

804

on the other side of the event space. And I take a deep breath, I

805

take some sips of that coconut water, I have some snacks, and then

806

I take a deep breath and then go back out there and do the next

807

episode. So this has worked for me every single time. I've

808

walked out of my events without a migraine, which is such a delight.

809

And I'm not like starving for lunch, you know, because I had that really hearty

810

breakfast and I'm very well hydrated. I love that checklist.

811

And whether you're doing a show in your format or even like solo, casters, I

812

think it's a reminder. Mm-hmm. Because I've made the mistake of booking several

813

back-to-backs of these remotely and I see them on the calendar and it's like, oh,

814

I don't have any breaks. I don't pull those in. And I think, yeah,

815

having that reset time is helpful. So thank you for that. And we'll make sure

816

that's outlined in the show notes. Again, truly enjoyed the conversation and

817

connecting with you. I'm really glad your team reached out. Appreciate it. Where's the best

818

place for folks to connect and learn more about what you're working on? Well, they

819

can go to basebeauty.com, but the other option, I am big on LinkedIn. You know,

820

that's my place. I actually don't have any personal social That's the

821

only one. So I'm very active on LinkedIn and happy to answer anyone's

822

questions. Okay. I'll make sure all those links in the show notes. Thanks again, Jord.

823

Thanks again, Jodi. Awesome. Thank you. It was really fun, Harry. All right.