Shownotes
#67 Inspired by Warren Zevon’s philosophy to "enjoy every sandwich," Billy Haas walked on the treadmill for hours, eating sandwiches post open-heart surgery in order to cope with depression and the reality that his world had changed in an instant. In this episode, Billy shares about how drinking too much coffee on Denali led to a dual diagnosis of Septal Defect and Partial Anomalous Pulmonary Venous Return resulting in open-heart surgery instead of a trip to Pakistan. A year later, he began to experience Severe Vena Cava Occlusion leading to the placement of a stent. Billy walks us through how this major health challenge offered him a fresh lens to view success and failure. Ultimately, Billy successfully navigated his path to physical and emotional wellness and got to go on that trip to Pakistan. Bravo Billy.
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Transcripts
The septal defect is almost like you have those crack in a straw. The
Speaker:straw doesn't suck properly. And then the vetus return is just
Speaker:incorrect plumbing. So one of my four tubes was just
Speaker:going into the wrong spot, and it was at that point where, you know,
Speaker:it takes the sensor out and they go away and they come back.
Speaker:And at the time, I had been planning a trip with a friend to
Speaker:go on a ski expedition to Pakistan, and I told the doctor all
Speaker:about it. He's like, oh, yeah, you know, we'll probably get this figured out for
Speaker:you by then. This is, like, six months from now. And the cardiologist comes
Speaker:back, and he goes, looks at me, and I say to him, before he says
Speaker:anything, I'm like, I'm probably not going to Pakistan this year, am I? And he
Speaker:kind of looks at me and laughs. He's like, I'm sorry, bud. You're not going
Speaker:to Pakistan this year. We're going to get you scheduled for open heart surgery in
Speaker:the next month.
Speaker:Welcome to open heart surgery with Boots, a
Speaker:podcast for heart patients by me, a heart
Speaker:patient. Join me as I take you on a journey through the
Speaker:intricacies of the human heart, revealing the
Speaker:triumphs and challenges of those who
Speaker:undergo the life changing event of heart
Speaker:surgery. We're not just exploring medical procedures.
Speaker:We're delving into the human experience.
Speaker:Be sure you hit subscribe and also
Speaker:leave a review. That means the world to
Speaker:me, and I read every single one. Also, if you
Speaker:have a story to share or want to hear something that I haven't
Speaker:covered on this program, you can send me an email, which is
Speaker:linked in the show notes. But without further delay, let's
Speaker:get to this week's episode. Welcome
Speaker:back to another episode of Open Heart Surgery with Boots. I am Boots
Speaker:Knighton, your host, and today is such
Speaker:a special treat. I feel like I say that
Speaker:every week with every heart patient I have the honor of
Speaker:interviewing, but this week feels extra special, and I'll tell you
Speaker:why. I want to bring you my new friend
Speaker:and heart buddy, Billy Haas, who is a
Speaker:mountain guide. And he had open heart
Speaker:surgery, and he is totally back out in the
Speaker:world. Like, climbing new peaks, putting in new
Speaker:routes. He's a mountain guide. He is an
Speaker:instructor for the American Avalanche Institute, and
Speaker:it's like he hasn't missed a beat. And I cannot
Speaker:wait to dive in with Billy and get
Speaker:to the heart of the matter, pun totally intended,
Speaker:to figure out how the heck he is
Speaker:thriving despite his heart
Speaker:challenge. And he just seems to have risen to the
Speaker:challenge and succeeded and has totally
Speaker:reached new heights. Also, pun intended, the pun opportunities
Speaker:are endless with him. So, Billy, thank you for coming
Speaker:to this podcast to share your knowledge,
Speaker:your inspiration. I am grateful to you. You are a
Speaker:busy dude. You are constantly going new places. So
Speaker:thank you for taking the time to sit down with me today and share
Speaker:your story. Yeah, thank you, Boots. Good morning. I know this
Speaker:has been a little bit of time in the works, but I'm glad I kind
Speaker:of found time. And this, yeah, should be really fun. So
Speaker:you're out climbing peaks anyway, despite everything you've been
Speaker:through. And I talked to so many heart
Speaker:patients who have wanted to get back
Speaker:to their life, and life is just so
Speaker:radically different after heart surgery for all of us.
Speaker:I know for myself, I continue to try to get
Speaker:back to, you know what I the reason why I moved to the
Speaker:tetons for those just finding me. I live in Victor,
Speaker:Idaho. Billy lives down in Utah,
Speaker:and he also comes up to the tetons to
Speaker:guide up here for exim mountain guides. And
Speaker:you and I love to play in the mountains. That's why we live here.
Speaker:And I continue to struggle to get back to the
Speaker:mountains. And so this is a bit of a selfish
Speaker:episode for me because I need that
Speaker:inspiration. I need that hope that, like, maybe one day I
Speaker:can get back to what I used to do. And so I'm just
Speaker:so excited to unpack all of that with you today.
Speaker:Tell us first, like, set the scene of
Speaker:what happened. Just give us your heart
Speaker:story as it unfolded.
Speaker:Yeah, it was kind of a surprise,
Speaker:like, for many, but for me, it started, this is going to sound
Speaker:like kind of silly, but this is how it happened. Working as a mountain guide.
Speaker:I was up in Alaska guiding Denali,
Speaker:and I'm not a big, or wasn't at the time a big coffee drinker.
Speaker:Still. I'm not. And, you know, you get stuck in a
Speaker:camp, you're there for days, there's a storm.
Speaker:And I just kind of sat around with a bunch of guides and
Speaker:drank a bunch of coffee. What that did is it gave me a lot of
Speaker:basically pvcs or, you know, these kind of
Speaker:extra, extra heartbeats. And I thought I was, you know, at one point I look
Speaker:at one of the other guys, I'm like, man, I think I'm having a heart
Speaker:attack. And they're like, you're probably fine. You probably just drank too much
Speaker:coffee. Which ended up being true. But I got back and I had been like,
Speaker:kind of complaining about that and stuff. And I've got a little bit of family
Speaker:history with heart disease, but we ended up finding out that I
Speaker:was more like, it wasn't something that would be genetic. Like, my
Speaker:grandpa had rheumatic fever, which damaged his heart and things like that.
Speaker:So I kept complaining, kept complaining. Eventually, my wife, who, she works as
Speaker:an ICU nurse, she was like, you know what? I'm sick and tired of your
Speaker:complaining that you had something happen on Denali. I'm just going to make you a
Speaker:cardiologist appointment, and then I don't have to listen to you
Speaker:complain anymore. So I kind of go in there to the cardiologist, and I'm like,
Speaker:hey. So I had this thing happen. Like, I don't know what it was, but
Speaker:I'm telling you, there's something wrong. He's like, do you have any other symptoms? Anything
Speaker:else? I'm like, no, not really. I'm just, I'm telling you, it was weird.
Speaker:And I almost felt embarrassed being there, almost as I'm
Speaker:like, I'm like a healthy 30 at the time I was there. I'm like
Speaker:a healthy 30 year old endurance athlete. Like, what the heck am I doing at
Speaker:a cardiologist appointment? And sure enough, I thought he was
Speaker:actually pretty cool that he did this. He's like, well, you know what? You're here.
Speaker:Let's check some things out. Probably nothing. And
Speaker:echo, you know, ecgdeh, uh,
Speaker:they did a calcium score test,
Speaker:and in the, a few days later, in the echo, he calls me up. He's
Speaker:like, hey, so you actually have a little bit of right side
Speaker:enlargement. Really, really minor, really minor. But generally, when we see
Speaker:that, we want to follow up with a CT or, sorry, um,
Speaker:MRI. And it was in the MRI that they ended up
Speaker:seeing some right to left shunting. And at that point, they
Speaker:kind of said to me like, hey, you actually probably do have something. It's got
Speaker:nothing to do with a coffee and those skip heartbeats, but you actually do have
Speaker:something. It's probably something called a septal defect. Generally, they're
Speaker:pretty easy to fix, but we need to get some more
Speaker:imaging to see how big and how we're going to fix it.
Speaker:So that's when they did a trans esophageal echocardiogram.
Speaker:And that was actually kind of a funny story because
Speaker:the sedation, because, you know, they give you some lidocaine to
Speaker:numb the throat, and then they put you under mild sedation. I was, I felt,
Speaker:like, fully awake for it, and I was kind of, like, gagging on the
Speaker:probe the entire time. They're like, look, if we sedate you
Speaker:anymore, if we sedate you anymore, we're going to put you to sleep, and then
Speaker:you're going to be here for a long time. You don't want that. So either
Speaker:just kind of take it right now, or this is
Speaker:going to be a much bigger thing than you want. So it's like, all right,
Speaker:just do it. And I could hear the
Speaker:cardiologist kind of, like, explaining some things
Speaker:to the resident he was with. And at that point, I'd
Speaker:done enough research to kind of understand some things and what they were talking about
Speaker:a little bit. And it kind of went from like, okay, okay. Mmm,
Speaker:mmm, mmm. You know,
Speaker:and it was after the te that they learned that I had a pretty
Speaker:large septal defect, but I also had an
Speaker:anomalous pulmonary vein, so they call it partially
Speaker:anomalous venous return. So one of my pulmonary veins
Speaker:that's bringing oxygenated blood back from my lungs
Speaker:was kind of going into my superior vena
Speaker:cava, essentially just recirculating a quarter of
Speaker:my. Of the blood, the oxygenated blood returning from my
Speaker:lungs. So it was like they give you all these
Speaker:analogies to try and help lay people understand, but it was like, you know,
Speaker:the. The septal defect is almost like you have those crack in a straw.
Speaker:The straw doesn't suck properly. And then the Venus returned. It's just
Speaker:incorrect plumbing. So one of my four tubes was just going
Speaker:into the wrong spot, and it was at that point where, you know,
Speaker:it takes the sensor out and they go away and they come back.
Speaker:And at the time, I had been planning a trip with a
Speaker:friend to go on a ski expedition to Pakistan. And I told the
Speaker:doctor all about it and stuff. He's like, oh, yeah, you know, we'll probably get
Speaker:this figured out for you by then. This is like six months from now. And
Speaker:the cardiologist comes back and he goes, looks at me, and I.
Speaker:And I say to him before he says anything, I'm like, I'm probably not going
Speaker:to Pakistan this year, am I? And he kind of looks at me and laughs.
Speaker:He's like, I'm sorry, bud. You're not going to Pakistan this year. We're going to
Speaker:get you scheduled for open heart surgery in the next month. Wow.
Speaker:Wow. So that was kind of the
Speaker:diagnosis. I'm just thinking about you and
Speaker:Denali having. I mean, my husband Jason has also
Speaker:been on Denali. And, yeah, you do sit there
Speaker:for some days. For many days sometimes. And
Speaker:I'm just thinking about how that started for you, that is
Speaker:so intense. I'm
Speaker:just glad that, like, you actually didn't have a heart attack on Denali, because that
Speaker:would not have necessarily gone very well. Yeah,
Speaker:well, it is something that happens, people, because you do put a lot of
Speaker:stress on your heart.
Speaker:Cardiac events at high altitude are not uncommon.
Speaker:We weren't terribly high. We were at 11,000ft, which
Speaker:is particularly for where we're coming from,
Speaker:not super high. And it's funny
Speaker:because what I was having was just a result of
Speaker:me having too much caffeine. And I
Speaker:just am really sensitive to caffeine. I still am. So it
Speaker:was like totally separate. It wasn't actually anything to do
Speaker:with what I had, but it was what led me to go to see a
Speaker:doctor. So there's like a subtle joke I have with my
Speaker:wife. That coffee saved my life in a way.
Speaker:Hey, whatever it takes, because we need you here
Speaker:you are dealt this news. Walk us
Speaker:through. Like, how did that land? Like, here you had. It
Speaker:was such a 180, right? Yeah. And it
Speaker:was something that I think, you know, I've had
Speaker:orthopedic injuries before, ACL repairs, things like that.
Speaker:Like, you know, you get those kind of. That kind of news and it's like,
Speaker:okay, this is like what you expect. I'm a skier or stuff like that. You
Speaker:know, I have to have this kind of surgery. That kind of surgery. I smashed
Speaker:my face once and had to have that fixed, you know, and
Speaker:that's something where you're like, okay, this makes sense. This is
Speaker:like, I'm like a human machine and we need to fix, like,
Speaker:this arm of it or something like that. But with this one, it was
Speaker:like a little different. Like, I wasn't thinking about, am I going to be able
Speaker:to do this skiing this year or that climbing this year? I was more
Speaker:like, did I just lower my life expectancy? Like, you know, like,
Speaker:am I going to live like. Like how, you know, am I going to have
Speaker:a weak heart for the rest of my life? And so I think it hits
Speaker:quite a bit more than some other styles of
Speaker:injuries or things like that. I remember coming
Speaker:home that afternoon, and maybe it was just the sedative
Speaker:wearing off or whatever they had me on, but I was less. Like, I felt
Speaker:cold and clammy. I kind of felt nauseous for the whole day. I was like.
Speaker:I was. Yeah, I was really upset. And
Speaker:I think the good thing was, and I'll probably say this 500
Speaker:times, but, you know, my wife Diana, through the whole thing,
Speaker:was about as important as anyone in
Speaker:one explaining things to me, but also being
Speaker:optimistic. And, I mean, that's many partners and
Speaker:many friends and, you know, that's kind of their. I don't want to say their
Speaker:role, but that's the role they end up assuming. But it's. It is really
Speaker:important to have that. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Speaker:And you're lucky because she's, like a medical professional, too, so
Speaker:she really better than anyone could. She
Speaker:could be your advocate, your educator, like, all the
Speaker:things. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You were. So then
Speaker:you were scheduled within the month at University of
Speaker:Utah. Yep. Yep. So it was. Yeah, it was early
Speaker:winter when I had that te. And
Speaker:I think, yeah, then I was scheduled for. It was a little over a month,
Speaker:but it was like, February 1 was when I had my surgery.
Speaker:And I remember prior to that, I worked quite a bit
Speaker:just to get as much work in before the surgery. But I also skied as
Speaker:much as humanly possible. I put in, like, some of my biggest days ever.
Speaker:A lot of big solo days. Like, I did have some of these, like,
Speaker:vision quest style solo skis.
Speaker:And then right the day before my surgery. Oh,
Speaker:go ahead. I was just gonna say I want to set the
Speaker:scene for our listeners. Cause I have
Speaker:listeners all over the country and
Speaker:59 other countries. And
Speaker:when you have a big day, I want
Speaker:people to understand what that means. Cause it's really
Speaker:incredible what you do with your machine
Speaker:that, you know, is your body tell people, because, like, it's hard for
Speaker:people to understand. Like, I know what your big day is. I
Speaker:used to have them myself. But, like, brag about yourself. Like, it's
Speaker:amazing what you were still able to do despite
Speaker:being born differently. Yeah. And it's. It's
Speaker:funny because having no symptoms, like, I played a. I played college lacrosse.
Speaker:I, you know, fell into this career as a yemenite
Speaker:ski athlete and endurance athlete and never had a symptom. And it's
Speaker:amazing how your body can compensate throughout all of that. My understanding
Speaker:is, with my two problems in combination,
Speaker:there's a few common diagnosis points.
Speaker:One is at birth. The other is generally in your
Speaker:teenage years because. Or as you know, kids
Speaker:start to mature because they can't really do activity,
Speaker:and they have trouble with activity. And then the other point is that death,
Speaker:because it's usually the cause of death. And I think, like, the life expect is,
Speaker:like, mid fifties or something. Untreated was what I was told.
Speaker:But by the way, it is amazing because, like,
Speaker:to know I didn't do anything to help this because I didn't know about
Speaker:it, but my body, for whatever it was, was just able to compensate well.
Speaker:But that compensation does damage to your heart. And
Speaker:that's why I had that right side enlargement. So while I did compensate well, it
Speaker:still needed to be fixed. And, I mean, for me, like, you know,
Speaker:I go out there and I'm doing some of these big days right before. Right
Speaker:before my surgery. And I think one of them was this solo day in the
Speaker:Wasatch range here. And I think I skied like, 14 or 15,000
Speaker:vertical feet and kind of linked up some technical
Speaker:lines in one of our larger alpine zones. And the
Speaker:whole time I just had, like, a huge smile on my face. I remember, like,
Speaker:every peak, every line I skied, I was just, like, beaming,
Speaker:and I was, like, kind of scared about what was going to happen.
Speaker:But that was a really good day. Like, I'll never forget that day for the
Speaker:rest of my life. And luckily, I can sort of picture where that is,
Speaker:and it's beautiful. And I want to tell the listeners, this isn't
Speaker:lift service skiing. You were climbing
Speaker:the mountain and skiing down. It's called ski mountaineering.
Speaker:And it takes an incredible amount of endurance to
Speaker:be able to do that. Even with a good heart. I mean, your heart is
Speaker:still good. I don't want to imply that it was bad. I'm really
Speaker:careful about how I word things. Cause
Speaker:words really matter. And I even don't like saying the
Speaker:word congenital heart defect because I just like to
Speaker:think of it as born differently because I know for me,
Speaker:it has an emotional impact when I think of defect
Speaker:versus be, just being born differently. But that's my own
Speaker:journey. No, and I feel the same. Like, I remember
Speaker:I would have these mopey moments where I'm just like, well, I guess I'm just
Speaker:not, you know, a normal person. Like, I guess I'm a
Speaker:broken person. Yeah, no, I agree with that, though. Like. Cause I had
Speaker:those. I had those moments of, like, feeling sorry for myself. And a lot of
Speaker:it was just because of that. Yeah, I have a feeling
Speaker:we heart patients throw the best pity parties.
Speaker:Probably the woe is me,
Speaker:but I. And I think it's necessary. I mean, there's. I just
Speaker:aired an episode yesterday with a really great
Speaker:emergency room nurse up in Canada, and
Speaker:it was amazing. She's like, I just want to. She said, I want to give
Speaker:you and your listeners permission to grieve.
Speaker:And I. I really grieved when I
Speaker:was diagnosed in 2020, and I did
Speaker:grieve that year. But then I had to get on with things. I had to
Speaker:get on with saving my life. And my mom died
Speaker:and, you know, like, all these things were happening. Plus it was Covid
Speaker:dumpster fire, and I
Speaker:think I still have a little more grieving to do. And it just
Speaker:comes in waves. So, yeah,
Speaker:it's like, be in the pity party and then let it pass.
Speaker:So then what? That way, it doesn't get stuck in you and, like. Cause, you
Speaker:know, like, emotions can get stuck if we don't allow them to, like,
Speaker:express themselves. And then. But then it is time to climb the
Speaker:peak and smile and get on with living and be in
Speaker:today and what we have, what we've been given today.
Speaker:Yeah, that's something I tell myself all the time. Like, it's okay to feel
Speaker:like crap right now, so just. That's how it is, you know? And
Speaker:I think that's totally fine. Yeah. Okay, so you had a
Speaker:kick ass day before surgery. Good for you.
Speaker:Bravo. And then it was surgery day, and it was. Yep. And I,
Speaker:you know, again, it was kind of nice because having my wife,
Speaker:you're not like, an insider in a sense, but you get prepped
Speaker:with what's going to happen. All these things. Everything's kind of explained to you, not
Speaker:just from a healthcare provider, but by someone you really, really
Speaker:trust. And I remember
Speaker:they must pump you up on valium or something right before you go into
Speaker:the. To the operating room. But I was like. I was riding a high.
Speaker:I was like, thumbs up. Let's do this. I remember very adamantly that
Speaker:I would not let them pick me up from the bed that they
Speaker:wheeled me in on. I think I kind of pissed some people off because of
Speaker:this. I was like, I would like to sit onto my own bed, not get,
Speaker:like, wheeled in here and then, like, lifted. And
Speaker:I was a bad patient sometimes, but, yeah,
Speaker:I could go into that a little bit. I definitely was, like, not a good
Speaker:standard patient in some ways, but, yeah. And then you
Speaker:wake up and you're like. You wake up and. From open heart surgeon, as
Speaker:I'm sure you probably remember, boots, like, you're supremely messed up.
Speaker:There's tubes coming out of you left and right,
Speaker:you know, like, you're really messed up. And
Speaker:I remember being incredibly nauseous, and I was
Speaker:so scared that if I threw up, I would, like, ruin something.
Speaker:Like, I would, like, throw up on my wound or I'd, like, break my
Speaker:chest open or something, even though that somewhat irrational and just
Speaker:being so nauseous and so nauseous like, I don't
Speaker:remember the pain. I remember the nausea and just trying to, like, fight
Speaker:that off. I ended up spending seven days in
Speaker:the hospital. I had a small
Speaker:complication. I mean, realistically small complication. One of my lungs collapsed
Speaker:post surgery. Just meant I got another tube and.
Speaker:But, yeah, I was, you know, after seven days, discharged from the University
Speaker:of Utah, and surgery seemingly went well. And those
Speaker:were really crappy seven days, though, I will say that. Yeah.
Speaker:What was. What was crappy about it? I mean, yeah, you had the collapse lung.
Speaker:That doesn't help the nausea. Oh, my God. Like, I threw
Speaker:up 25 times after my open heart surgery.
Speaker:Yeah. Like, I broke record.
Speaker:Yeah. And so for listeners who haven't heard my story,
Speaker:I had my surgery right down the street at Intermountain hospital
Speaker:down in Utah. And, yeah, at the time, the ICU nurses told
Speaker:me I broke the record for a number of times. Vomited in, like, a
Speaker:24 hours period. Yeah, don't
Speaker:recommend that. So she rubbed
Speaker:me for good luck. See, these are the kind of stories my wife.
Speaker:My wife comes home with. So I like to
Speaker:expect. I'm sure people were talking about me,
Speaker:certain. But, yeah,
Speaker:that's. So seven days. I mean, I got out
Speaker:lightning quick despite my time with the puke
Speaker:bucket. But how old were you when you had your
Speaker:surgery? I was 30. Yeah. Okay,
Speaker:so I was 30 years old. And, you know when you're in there,
Speaker:and here's the thing they say to you, and to be totally honest, when you're
Speaker:in there, they're like, oh, we don't get patients like you all the time. Like,
Speaker:oh, what are you doing here? You know? Or like, stuff like that. That doesn't
Speaker:make you feel better. It's like, okay, well, yeah, what am I doing
Speaker:here? Yeah, my surgeon said he only operates on fat
Speaker:people, and so he didn't know what to do with me. Yeah,
Speaker:yeah, no, I. That's, you know, and I was pretty mobile on my own, and
Speaker:I think that was something that they were like, oh, here, let me help. I
Speaker:was like, no, like, don't touch me. Like, I'm going to get myself up right
Speaker:now. And like I said, I was a bad patient. Like, a
Speaker:few things, they make you walk, right? You know, and they make you stand up
Speaker:and do these, like, short walks once or twice a day. And
Speaker:I was. I was pretty depressed, like, not that I couldn't walk, I just didn't
Speaker:want to walk. And I was just laying in the bed, basically, just staring at
Speaker:the ceiling tiles. And I didn't watch tv once.
Speaker:Like, I thought I was going to, like, read a book or, like, listen to
Speaker:music. I didn't do any of that. I sat every single day staring
Speaker:at a wall or staring at the ceiling. Sometimes I'd have them, like,
Speaker:sit the chair, because they had a chair in the room, and they'd face me,
Speaker:like, out towards the mountains, and I could, like, see the
Speaker:helipad and, like, just, like, watch the helicopters come in and go out.
Speaker:And that's all I did. I didn't even, like, look on my phone much.
Speaker:And, yeah, they'd have you walk, and they'd be like, oh, don't you want to
Speaker:walk? Like you're, you know, a mountain person? You love walking, all this stuff, yada,
Speaker:yada. I'm like, I don't want to walk, you know? And they're like, well, you
Speaker:have to. I'm like, but, yeah. And that was where I think having my wife
Speaker:really helped, because I'd be like, I'm not going to walk until my wife gets
Speaker:here and she can walk with me. And they'd be like, well,
Speaker:you know, we usually don't let family members do this. We usually. And
Speaker:the charge nurse there and my nurse kind of knew my wife, and I was
Speaker:like, just go talk to the charge nurse. Just. And, you know, and then the
Speaker:physical therapist would come back and be like, okay, okay. Yeah, well, when your wife
Speaker:gets here, she can help bathe you or help this or that
Speaker:or stuff. And so that was
Speaker:nice because I can see if you don't have someone who
Speaker:works in the healthcare system who's maybe even friends with some of the people there,
Speaker:it's like you have strangers doing all this to you. And that was something that
Speaker:was frustrating to me. Like, all I wanted was to have my
Speaker:wife there helping me do these things. And the nurse that primarily took
Speaker:care of me, he was on for. Luckily, I got him for a full round
Speaker:of shifts for three days because I was in the Cvicu for
Speaker:two days, and then I was in the floor unit,
Speaker:the cardiac floor unit for five days, and he was with me
Speaker:when I got to the floor. And that was great. He was super
Speaker:nice, kind of friend of a friend, things like that. Like, knew
Speaker:Diana, so that was, that was really helpful. And
Speaker:I think having gone through that, like, I have a lot of empathy and
Speaker:for people who don't have that. And, like, if I was in there on their
Speaker:own, even if I had family come and visit, oh, hey, you know, like, that's
Speaker:fine, but really having someone walk you through stuff and help
Speaker:you with things that. That made a huge difference, or at least seemingly made a
Speaker:huge difference for me. She's your. And Diana's your person, you know? I
Speaker:get it. Like, it's. Yeah, it's. It's such a
Speaker:hard, scary moment in life, and we need
Speaker:our security blankets, which are our partners or close
Speaker:friends or family members. Yeah. And you're right. Not everyone
Speaker:has that. That gift of
Speaker:having a person. And that's one of the reasons for
Speaker:this podcast. It's like, I want to. This episode and all the
Speaker:other episodes, it's like, I want it to feel like a hug for
Speaker:those who don't have someone close
Speaker:to them. Like, we heart patients don't have to do life
Speaker:alone, and it's even better if we do have a
Speaker:partner. Totally. Not that any of the other care providers at the University
Speaker:of Utah were bad. It's just. It's really nice when you have someone who you
Speaker:know well to help you with some stuff. Like,
Speaker:the example is at one point, they're like, okay, we're gonna. We're gonna give you,
Speaker:like, a sponge bath and kind of clean you here. And
Speaker:very nice young medical assistant. And I just looked at how I was like,
Speaker:hey, man, can we just wait till my wife gets here and she can do
Speaker:it? And he's like, again, well, we usually don't let family members, you know, yada,
Speaker:yada. And I was like, just go talk to Mike. He was my nurse. I
Speaker:was like, just go talk to Mike. He comes back in, like, a minute later.
Speaker:He's like, oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, I know when your wife gets here, she can
Speaker:help you. And I'm just like, that kind of stuff was helpful.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, with heart
Speaker:surgery, I can't speak to other surgeries, but, I mean, it's
Speaker:such a vulnerable act of
Speaker:going through heart surgery. And, I mean, our hearts have
Speaker:actually been touched by other humans, and that in and
Speaker:of itself is so much to process and then to continue to be
Speaker:poked and prodded with all the tubes for the next however
Speaker:many days. And, I mean, it is all
Speaker:dignity goes out the window. And so it's like, whatever
Speaker:dignity we can hold onto is so
Speaker:important and necessary for our self
Speaker:respect. I mean, I remember I got so violently ill a
Speaker:couple of times, and I was so embarrassed to ask for
Speaker:help, and I just wanted Jason, my husband, to help because
Speaker:I was like, I'm so embarrassed. Like, it was so. I
Speaker:was so sick, and it is such a vulnerable
Speaker:few days in the hospital. And even though these people do it as a living
Speaker:and they want to help and they signed up to help, it is still so
Speaker:weird to have. Yeah. A stranger you don't know at three in the
Speaker:morning coming in to clean you up. It is. It is
Speaker:tough and I just want to normalize
Speaker:that for listeners. And I'm sure there are people right now listening to this
Speaker:going, yep. It is as part of heart
Speaker:surgery that we aren't prepared for ahead of time.
Speaker:And I hadn't, I'd had things happen in my life, like orthopedic injuries, other
Speaker:things like that, where I'd been in the hospital, things like that. But this is
Speaker:on a whole other level in it. And it is, it's, it is a
Speaker:little demoralizing, but you get through it and that's the nice thing.
Speaker:Yep. And so let's talk about that. So, okay, sure. You
Speaker:were in the hospital for seven days. None of us are going to judge you
Speaker:that you weren't a great patient. I have a feeling you weren't nearly as bad
Speaker:as you're making yourself sound.
Speaker:You're thriving. Walk us through your recovery
Speaker:and how you got back
Speaker:to climbing 8000 meters peaks. Well, I did have
Speaker:a hiccup and I'll get there in a second because it wasn't all like smooth
Speaker:sailing. I had a pretty major hiccup. But
Speaker:one of the things that's interesting with heart surgery is, again, I'm used
Speaker:to other styles of injury on my friend. It's like you get hurt,
Speaker:you get a surgery, you do rehab. For me, I was like, well, what
Speaker:do I do now? You know, like they, they have you on the sternal precautions
Speaker:and they're like, right now you just, you chill. And then after
Speaker:like two. And I, when I walked like that year to that
Speaker:February 2019 was one of the biggest February's of snowfall on record in
Speaker:the wasatch. So that was also a little hard.
Speaker:And, yeah, my house here is kind of like
Speaker:a road stop for a lot of my friends going up and down the Cottonwood
Speaker:canyons to go skiing. So I have my friends over all the time. They're all
Speaker:like, dude, it was the best day ever. You know, like I, and, uh, which
Speaker:I was psyched on and I was, I was genuinely psyched on that. And that's
Speaker:another thing I'll, I'll get to in a second of kind of how I've changed.
Speaker:But, but, yeah, I walked a lot. I walked around the neighborhood and it was
Speaker:funny because I walk around these blocks and there's all this snow on the ground,
Speaker:and usually I'm a professional mountain guide, and there's, like, a patch
Speaker:of ice on a sidewalk, and I'm like, whoo. Got to be careful. Like, let's
Speaker:get around this carefully. You know, like, I could, it was kind of
Speaker:funny how my mindset shifted there, but, yeah, they didn't have me on any kind
Speaker:of, I mean, they're like, yeah, this is a standard cardiac rehab, but, like, you
Speaker:don't, this is going to seem silly for you. So I walked. I walked a
Speaker:lot. Like, I got obsessive with my walking. And then as I
Speaker:was able to walk more and more and they lowered my sternal precautions, I started
Speaker:to go to the climbing gym where I'd walk on an inclined
Speaker:treadmill. I still wasn't allowed to, like, hold on to the
Speaker:treadmill because of the sternal precautions, but I put the
Speaker:incline treadmill as steep as it would go, and I would walk
Speaker:for hours, literally hours. I'd be there for, like, five, 6
Speaker:hours just walking. I mean, I had jokes like, I ain't got nothing else
Speaker:going on. I might as well just do this. And you can only walk, like,
Speaker:you know, 1 mile an hour. I did 10,000 foot vertical days on the
Speaker:treadmill. You know, like, that's pretty messed up, uh, in
Speaker:terms of the monotony of just, like, that's what I did.
Speaker:And honestly, until they took me off the sternal precautions, that is what I did.
Speaker:I walked like a crazy person, and I walked on that incline
Speaker:treadmill. That thing became, like, my best friend. Like, I would bring, like,
Speaker:sandwiches and food onto the, like, no one does that, you know, no
Speaker:one, like, is on a treadmill, like, eating a sandwich.
Speaker:People would, like, look at me weird, and I think one of the problems with
Speaker:heart surgery is you put a shirt on and you don't look like you
Speaker:just had an accident or something. You know, you don't look like you just
Speaker:had a surgery, so you look relatively normal. And there's, at the climbing gym,
Speaker:there's even these big, heavy doors that, like, I couldn't open,
Speaker:particularly when, when I was on the sternal precautions. And I'd have to sometimes
Speaker:wait outside the climbing gym for someone to open the door for me. So then
Speaker:I could, like, scoot in and then, like, the common courtesy would be to hold
Speaker:the door for the next person. I'd be like, hey, sorry, I can't. Gotta go.
Speaker:You know, like, kind of look like a, a jerk not holding the dog for
Speaker:someone, but, yeah, you don't have, like, a shirt on that says, like, on
Speaker:sternal precautions, you know, watch out. But that's, honestly, that's what I
Speaker:did. I walked as much as I could, and I walked on that incline
Speaker:treadmill at, like, one, one and a half miles an hour, uphill all
Speaker:day. That's, like, what that, like, was the only thing at that point in time
Speaker:that was making me happy. So were you. Would you say you were battling
Speaker:depression? Oh, definitely. I've been pretty fortunate with my mental
Speaker:health through most of my life. And other than that period,
Speaker:I mean, that was, like, by far the only time that I can say I
Speaker:felt, like, truly depressed. And, like, again,
Speaker:I had all these plans. I'm like, during my recovery, I'm gonna, like, do this
Speaker:writing. I'm gonna do that writing. I'm gonna help with this project. I'm in that
Speaker:pride. I did nothing. Like, I did absolutely nothing.
Speaker:Honestly, the biggest thing I did at one point, I think because my
Speaker:parents came and visited for a bit, and, like, my mom got me, like, a
Speaker:Lego set. I made a little Statue of Liberty out of
Speaker:Legos. That's what the Lego set was. That's the only thing I did,
Speaker:because I just couldn't focus on anything.
Speaker:But I have a lot of great friends, and I've got good family, and this
Speaker:is my wife. Like, my friends coming over and hearing about their ski day and
Speaker:things like that, that actually was. That was awesome, you know, and that really
Speaker:helps. And even the texts, the cards, things like that,
Speaker:I used to probably would have been like that. Whatever, don't worry about it. But
Speaker:that stuff actually does make a difference. It does. And it makes you
Speaker:feel better, and I feel bad because a lot of them, you know, I didn't
Speaker:even respond to. I was kind of so not out of it,
Speaker:but I was so, like, disconnected that, like, I. I feel bad now
Speaker:that I didn't respond to half of them, you know, or I responded to a
Speaker:lot of them, like, a month later. And, yeah,
Speaker:I wasn't prepared for that because, again, I'd been prepped on. Okay, you'll feel a
Speaker:little post surgery depression. That's pretty common, things like that. But
Speaker:I wasn't prepared for that level of it. It's real,
Speaker:and I think it's something that's maybe was the part of
Speaker:my treatment or recovery that I felt like I was least supported in or
Speaker:at least prepped for. Yeah. And a lot of
Speaker:heart patients would nod. There had some agreement with you
Speaker:and me included. It's. I was warned about it, but I
Speaker:wasn't warned about how intense it would be and how dark
Speaker:it would get. Yeah. Yeah. And I think.
Speaker:I don't know what it would have done if I was. If I had known
Speaker:to the extent. But it was definitely. That's something that I'll.
Speaker:Yeah. Never forget from that experience as well.
Speaker:How long did that last for you? Honestly, this is gonna
Speaker:sound really cliche, but probably till I could start skiing again. And I.
Speaker:And I remember. So February 1,
Speaker:March. So around April 1, I know this
Speaker:sounds crazy, but April 1, they said, hey, you could start doing some light activity.
Speaker:Some three months post surgery, they said, some light activity. And
Speaker:me being the dummy that I am, I was like, okay, well, light
Speaker:activity to me is light different than light activity to that person. Yeah. But I.
Speaker:So I started skiing April 1, and at this point, I felt
Speaker:pretty good. Like, you know, my walking, I think, actually helped. Like, I think it
Speaker:really helped. And I felt pretty good. And I remember ski touring up to some
Speaker:of these runs right above the town of Alta called the Emma's. And I did
Speaker:some Emma laps, and, you know, it was great. And had some friends there. My
Speaker:wife. And then the next day, I decided to go ski off Mount
Speaker:Superior, which is an even bigger peak above town, and. But we skied off
Speaker:superior, went back up, did another lap, and then skied this semi
Speaker:technical line called the heart of darkness, and then
Speaker:went up and skied this other semi technical line called the rampage.
Speaker:And I was with my friend Colby, and I just remember the whole time, my
Speaker:friend Colby's just like, you better just not. Something better not happen, or else I'm
Speaker:going to get in trouble here. Like, you sure this is okay? The whole time?
Speaker:You sure this is okay? I'm not taking the heat for this if something happens.
Speaker:And. But realistically, at that point, I just started skiing as
Speaker:much as I could, and I actually. I felt pretty good. Like, yeah, my. My
Speaker:chest kind of creaked and ached and stuff, but I felt
Speaker:pretty good. And as my doctor and my surgeon
Speaker:had said, like, just kind of let pain and stuff be your guide. And, you
Speaker:know, he said, everything's healed. Well, like, we like what we see. But because
Speaker:I would be like, hey, I just did this. Is that okay? They'd be like,
Speaker:okay. I think they didn't really understand what it was when I tell them, oh,
Speaker:I skied this run or that run, but they seemed okay with it to
Speaker:the point where I felt good enough that my friend Adam
Speaker:and Noah and our friend Ben asked me to go to
Speaker:Alaska in May. And I was like,
Speaker:yeah, I mean, I don't see why I can't. And we were going to. We
Speaker:kind of started planning a trip to Alaska that may to the point where
Speaker:mid May, I don't have the exact date, but by mid May, I
Speaker:skied a run called the Archangel ridge on Mount Forker in like a
Speaker:big alpine push with, with those guys. And we put
Speaker:in a first descent on a peak called Weske Hilton, a peak. And the trip
Speaker:kind of culminated in us all skiing the Mesmer cooler on Denali. And, you
Speaker:know, I'm like four and a half months or whatever, four and a half
Speaker:months post surgery at that point, which is amazing. Like, to
Speaker:me, that's still amazing. Almost like it didn't happen to me. Almost
Speaker:like it was someone else that that happened to or did that.
Speaker:And I didn't. Again, like, I didn't do any crazy rehab other
Speaker:than just I walked a lot. And when I could start doing activity
Speaker:again, I did do some weight training, as you know, to kind
Speaker:of help get myself back into shape a bit and get some
Speaker:more power and stuff. But the endurance, I never felt as if I really lost.
Speaker:And I don't know if that would have been different if I didn't do the
Speaker:walking. But from the endurance standpoint, I actually felt
Speaker:pretty good. It was more strength and power that I lost during the
Speaker:surgery, not as much endurance. And it'd be
Speaker:interesting to have more of like a technical conversation with a
Speaker:cardiologist or a trainer, you know, maybe both, and stuff
Speaker:like that. But, but that was my experience there. But the, here's the
Speaker:hitch. On that trip, I started to notice something that became
Speaker:pretty significant over the next year was on that trip,
Speaker:I noticed I had a lot of JVD. Like my jugular vein was
Speaker:kind of constantly swollen. And I felt like I had this tightness in my
Speaker:neck. And I get back from the trip and I go
Speaker:to my cardiologist, I said, hey, this thing, I'm getting like, this tightness
Speaker:in my neck. And they said, oh, that's probably just your, you know,
Speaker:your muscles figuring everything out from, you know, we did slice
Speaker:your, crack your rib, you know, your rib cage apart and spread it.
Speaker:And so it's probably just something like that. After that trip
Speaker:that brought me into my summer guiding season at examined. And what I'd start to
Speaker:notice through that summer was not only did I have this JVD,
Speaker:I start to feel tingliness in my hands, and I would feel
Speaker:lightheadedness if I bent over things like that that
Speaker:progressed into the fall, it just kept getting worse and worse and worse. The point
Speaker:where I'd be, like, I'd be rock climbing, and I'd have to, like, find these
Speaker:weird positions to stop so I could, like, let the tingliness go away and. And
Speaker:stuff. And somewhat long story short, they ended up finding I had this
Speaker:thing called SVC syndrome, which a
Speaker:result of my initial surgery. The scarring in my superior vena
Speaker:cava caused clotting. Kind of get that
Speaker:turbulent flow and caused clotting. And my
Speaker:superior vena cava was essentially almost fully occluded, like, it was
Speaker:almost fully blocked. And what that does is that
Speaker:prevents the proper return, blood return, from everything,
Speaker:from your head, neck, shoulders, and arms. And the layman's
Speaker:analogy they like to give you on this one is the highway analogy, where
Speaker:imagine you have a six lane highway, and that highway is now closed, and
Speaker:you have to deviate around on side streets. And
Speaker:fortunately, yeah, fortunately, you have
Speaker:these collateral veins that can bypass the SVC, and
Speaker:you have your azygos vein, which can bypass the SVC. So you still have return.
Speaker:It's just poor. It got to the point where my face started
Speaker:swelling up so bad that I was, like, almost
Speaker:unrecognizable. Like, my face was swollen. It looked like the
Speaker:rest of my body looked normal, and then it looked like I had gained, like,
Speaker:100 pounds. And this was actually a much more
Speaker:complicated thing to deal with. I saw thrombosis
Speaker:and kind of surgical teams at the University of Utah
Speaker:intermountain Healthcare. I consulted with physicians back
Speaker:east in New York, and a lot of them were like, hey, this is kind
Speaker:of a weird thing. The more common way people get SVC
Speaker:syndrome is from a chest tumor pushing up against their superior
Speaker:vena cava and causing that clotting. And a lot of the solutions
Speaker:and the stenting procedures for that are often just palliative, because
Speaker:those people with the chest tumors, it's probably so bad at that point that they
Speaker:only have so long to live anyways. So it was kind of a weird
Speaker:thing. And it wasn't until I was kind of
Speaker:recommended to a interventional cardiologist at
Speaker:the primary children's Hospital, a pediatric
Speaker:interventionalist. Her name is doctor Martin. She's great. Like,
Speaker:she was probably the best healthcare provider I had the
Speaker:entire time. And she said, I've done this stenting
Speaker:procedure for people with your
Speaker:condition and have. Who have had the same style of
Speaker:surgery. The first surgery I had was called a warden procedure, and she
Speaker:said, the only difference is, I think the oldest person I've done it on is
Speaker:15 or something. You're 30. Or at this point, I was probably
Speaker:31. And just to give you an idea, though, the timeline here is,
Speaker:I started to realize that stuff in May of
Speaker:2019. I didn't get it fixed until
Speaker:May of 2020. So it was
Speaker:almost a whole year of me trying to figure that out. And
Speaker:that was also the height of COVID Uh, so for
Speaker:that, I. I was able to just have a catheter procedure and
Speaker:the stenting just all done through a cath procedure, which was awesome.
Speaker:But that was an interesting experience, having to do that and go through all
Speaker:that during COVID which I'm sure you're a little familiar with. Like, it was not
Speaker:as easy, and there was a lot more unknowns. Like, she. She was very honest
Speaker:with me. She's like, we don't know if we'll be able to get in and
Speaker:fix this with the cath. If that doesn't work, we may have to do another
Speaker:open heart surgery, or we may just have to figure something else
Speaker:out. But luckily, she, uh. She did
Speaker:great. We got in there. We got it done. And, um,
Speaker:I now have a few different stents in my spiramina cava, but
Speaker:I'm, like, back to normal at this point. From then on, I haven't had any
Speaker:other issues since that. Since 2020. That feels more
Speaker:intense to me than the open heart surgery. That's a lot.
Speaker:Yeah, it was. It was definitely more. It was more anxiety, because while the
Speaker:procedure, in the end, was more simple, I was on blood thinners at that point.
Speaker:I was on eliquis, and, you know, and again, maybe don't tell them, but I
Speaker:kept skiing, and I just wore a helmet. That was my. That was my
Speaker:mitigating factor there. I just wore a helmet. And,
Speaker:I mean, but I had. I had people saying, like, hey, we, this. You know,
Speaker:you might have to kind of stop guiding, like. And they'd ask you these quality.
Speaker:They'd be like, well, what if I. I mean, are you okay with the situation
Speaker:as it is? I'm like, no, no. They're like, oh, okay, so
Speaker:you want us to do something? I'm like, yeah. Like, I can't live like
Speaker:this. And that was when I found out you really have
Speaker:to advocate for yourself, and you really have to let them know who you are
Speaker:and what your life is, because sometimes, you know, their care plans
Speaker:are often determined by quality of life outcomes,
Speaker:and quality of life for everyone's kind of different, and that's okay. And I
Speaker:really had to push for a solution for that that was going to allow me
Speaker:to get back to the quality of life that I
Speaker:knew and wanted. Now, that said, I was also. There was a part of me
Speaker:that was preparing for a different quality of life. Like, I had
Speaker:enough physicians tell me, like, hey, this. Even if we do get in there,
Speaker:like, you might not be able to, like, be back to where you were because
Speaker:you might not have the same returning blood flow and things like that.
Speaker:Yeah, I started, like, I started looking at jobs, I started to think
Speaker:about different careers. I started to, like, think about different hobbies
Speaker:and stuff, and, like, those things started happening for me. And
Speaker:luckily, we didn't have to go to plan b. We stuck with plan a.
Speaker:But, yeah, that was 100% happening in my mind.
Speaker:You were coping ahead, which is a skill that we
Speaker:heart patients have to do. Yeah, we have to cope ahead for
Speaker:all the possibilities. It's a way to prep your nervous
Speaker:system, which, I mean, I've. Do you have
Speaker:a therapist? You know, I've never seen
Speaker:a counselor. Like I said, I've been pretty fortunate with my mental health,
Speaker:but I would not hesitate in a heartbeat,
Speaker:pun intended, to do that. I've had many friends have good success with
Speaker:it. Yeah, it's something I talk a lot about on this
Speaker:podcast, and, I mean, it's
Speaker:obviously such a personal choice. And the
Speaker:grief road that we all have to travel when we're
Speaker:diagnosed with heart conditions is so personal.
Speaker:And a lot of what we bring in, like, life
Speaker:experience prior to the diagnosis
Speaker:day really does impact how you process
Speaker:that moment and time. And I. But when you're throwing
Speaker:curveballs like this, it's hitting me differently.
Speaker:And, you know, where just because I'm your fellow heart
Speaker:buddy, you had this open heart surgery. You got on with living your
Speaker:life. Heck, he went and skied the messner. Like,
Speaker:that's amazing. And then to be thrown this
Speaker:curveball when you think that, you know, you've got everything in the
Speaker:rear view mirror, and this curveball is really
Speaker:consequential. I don't want to belittle that in any way. And I just.
Speaker:It is such a 90 degree term. Are you on
Speaker:medications now for it? The only thing I'm still taking
Speaker:is baby aspirin once a day. And I've even spoke
Speaker:because now I'm seeing this congenital team, a really, really good
Speaker:team of providers at the University of Utah. We've spoken about whether I actually
Speaker:need to be on that or not. I think there's a pretty small
Speaker:cost benefit either way. So just out of habit, I
Speaker:just take my 1 or 81
Speaker:milligrams of aspirin every day, and that's it. My understanding with what
Speaker:I've got going on, the long term kind of outcomes
Speaker:are pretty good. I think I was pretty fortunate to. What I've
Speaker:had was they had good solutions. And really, one of
Speaker:the biggest things is maybe some weird heart arrhythmias,
Speaker:and they're not super serious heart arrhythmias is my understanding.
Speaker:It's just because of the tissue densities and stuff around the sinus node
Speaker:were changed from my initial surgery. So my biggest follow ups are more
Speaker:checking my rhythms and stuff, and I'll have to wear monitors.
Speaker:It's like every two years, I'll do a two week monitor and things like that.
Speaker:So pretty easy road in the
Speaker:future, hopefully. Okay. And then do you have, like,
Speaker:imaging every year? No, not every year.
Speaker:Every. At this point now it's going to be every few
Speaker:years. I think they want to check both the heart and the stent, but,
Speaker:yeah, it's because I think a standard echo wouldn't really look at the
Speaker:stent as much, but I think it's always going to be in my order now
Speaker:to check both. But it's mostly just an echo, is my understanding. Maybe every other
Speaker:year. Okay. Wow. I'm grateful you're here.
Speaker:Before we wrap up, what has given you the
Speaker:confidence to return to activity in the mountains,
Speaker:despite, I mean, yes, you. You walked us through walking on the
Speaker:treadmill. I'm hearing a healthy dose
Speaker:of determination and
Speaker:maybe a little bit of hard headedness that we all need to
Speaker:play in the mountains. It
Speaker:does serve us well at times. But what ultimately
Speaker:gave you the full confidence that you could get into the back into the
Speaker:mountains and not worry about dropping dead? Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, right. You know, I've thought about this actually quite a bit. For me,
Speaker:I think a lot of it was, like, really understanding what I
Speaker:had and what happened to me, you
Speaker:know, what. What the surgeries involved entailed, you know,
Speaker:and this isn't like the COVID style. Like, yeah, I did my own research
Speaker:on the Internet, you know, I tried to speak with as
Speaker:many, particularly cardiac health
Speaker:professionals or cardiac specific health professionals, and really understanding
Speaker:what I had done to me, what could be the
Speaker:potential issues there and what to look out
Speaker:for. And the more I understood about what I had,
Speaker:and as one cardiologist said to me, hes like, youve got a pretty serious
Speaker:problem with a pretty good fix. So I got lucky. I think in that
Speaker:sense that the style of procedure that was done to me and, you
Speaker:know, a lot of it's how they manipulate the heart structurally
Speaker:and stuff. Some things are better than others, right? Because the heart's a
Speaker:small machine that has different parts and things. And so I
Speaker:think really understanding what my condition entailed,
Speaker:what my fix was and what that meant
Speaker:gave me confidence and I think a good example and just educating
Speaker:myself as much as possible on this, you know, and I already did things right.
Speaker:Like, I'm not a smoker, you know, I'm, I'm, I
Speaker:drink alcohol at a pretty moderate level. I'm
Speaker:active and I think, you know, I eat a good diet. Like, I didn't need
Speaker:to change anything from a diet standpoint. Like, I already was kind of there, which
Speaker:I definitely would have. Side story, my dad had sextuple
Speaker:bypass surgery, um, two or three years ago. And he's like
Speaker:totally changed every, you know, his, it's like mediterranean diet
Speaker:is the Bible basically to him now. That's what we call it. We call his
Speaker:mediterranean diet book the Bible. But that's a whole other story.
Speaker:I'm not going to go there. So I think for me, yeah. Really understanding what
Speaker:I had done, what I could look for and things like that. And I think
Speaker:the good example here is I just got back from
Speaker:finally I made it to Pakistan and we
Speaker:skied. Me and my two friends, Adam and Brendan skied
Speaker:gasherbrum one and gasterbrum two. Two 8000 meters peaks
Speaker:and going to gastroom one. We did gastroom two
Speaker:first and in between. And I, you know, for the first time
Speaker:in a while, put a heart monitor back on. I did that. I wore a
Speaker:heart monitor quite a bit after my surgery. And then a few years go by,
Speaker:I kind of stopped wearing them and stuff and. But I put one back on
Speaker:for this trip and was kind of monitoring my vitals and things and really
Speaker:paying attention again because we were going to be stressing our bodies and
Speaker:ways we hadn't before at those altitudes. And
Speaker:when you're climbing these peaks, particularly without oxygen, like we were doing, like, you're
Speaker:putting a lot of stress. Like, you're not getting muscle fatigue, but you're getting
Speaker:like system fatigue more. And in
Speaker:between the two peaks, I noticed I was getting some of those pvcs, like
Speaker:they were coming back and I'd feel these quick shortnesses of breath.
Speaker:And I remember texting my wife and texting some friends in the knowledge and
Speaker:they said no, like, that's probably okay. That's not what you'd
Speaker:be more or less. Long story, like, on that. That's just even if I had
Speaker:had my heart stuff or not, I'd probably be getting those pvcs anyways, because they're
Speaker:often associated with fatigue, lack of rest, potentially
Speaker:dehydration, things like that, which I probably was. And really
Speaker:understanding that kind of stuff helped me have the confidence to then say, hey, I
Speaker:can go do the next peak. We did the gaserobon one about a week later.
Speaker:I'm okay to do this. You know, this is just probably
Speaker:things that were happening from other issues rather than my
Speaker:heart issues. So I wasn't like, I'm going to drop dead on this climb now.
Speaker:And that would be one of my biggest pieces of advice to people, is
Speaker:it may seem annoying, but, like, educate yourself as much as you
Speaker:can, because I think particularly if you want to return to high level activity,
Speaker:that's going to help give you the confidence. And. And that definitely helped
Speaker:me, amongst other things. Helped me. I mean, like, I can't say enough about how
Speaker:much my wife helped and friends and family and stuff, but I. I would say
Speaker:that's the one kind of specific thing that helped me. Knowledge is power.
Speaker:That's a cliche for a reason. There's a lot of
Speaker:research about facing
Speaker:head on any medical issue. There's even an app. So
Speaker:I broke my leg nine months ago. Now, at the time of
Speaker:this recording with you, and I have been using
Speaker:an app that is called recognize, and
Speaker:it actually has me flashing
Speaker:either the right leg or the left leg. And I have to
Speaker:choose the discrimination between right and left. How this came
Speaker:about was researchers did. They looked into
Speaker:people with back pain and those who would not
Speaker:look at their backs after open back surgery, like an actual back
Speaker:surgery. Those who didn't look at them almost said open heart. But, yeah.
Speaker:Anyway, those who would not look at their backs
Speaker:actually had persistent, lifelong pain. Those
Speaker:who did look at their backs and, like, face the
Speaker:surgery, looked at it in the mirror, their back pain went away.
Speaker:So if we choose to face any
Speaker:situation head on and not be afraid
Speaker:and learn about it, what it actually does is it regulates the
Speaker:nervous system, which turns down the pain response. So
Speaker:that makes sense. Yeah. And I think I remember reading it. It was like.
Speaker:They called it, like, acute cardiac awareness. Like, after heart surgery,
Speaker:you're more, like, in tune, and sometimes maybe a little bit of
Speaker:in a hypochondriac style way, like, in tune with what's going on in your heart.
Speaker:But I don't think that's a bad thing? I think after this,
Speaker:like whole experience for me, I'm much more in tune with
Speaker:everything going on in my body and I not to like an
Speaker:obsessive way, I think in a healthy way, you know, and I really pay attention
Speaker:to myself a little bit more when I need rest, when I need sleep, you
Speaker:know, when I can kind of push harder, things like that. Like I've become a
Speaker:better athlete through this, I think, because I'm much more
Speaker:aware of my body and my biometrics and stuff like that.
Speaker:And I think that's true for us mountain folks anyway, because
Speaker:a way to stay alive, especially you, who's doing these
Speaker:really consequential climbs and, you know,
Speaker:8000 meters peaks. For those listening who
Speaker:don't understand, I mean, you were, you were really
Speaker:high up in altitude and you do have to have a different level
Speaker:of awareness of your body because it's not an
Speaker:easy rescue. It's not like you can just run back to the trailhead and
Speaker:drive home. Yeah, no, you definitely can't. So
Speaker:you have to have an level of awareness. Yeah, I could
Speaker:have just, you know, winged it, but I'm glad I didn't. So,
Speaker:Billy, we could talk for hours about this
Speaker:is, before we close, is there any
Speaker:lingering nuggets of wisdom you want to impart
Speaker:on those who are going to come after you and I with heart
Speaker:surgery? What is like the nagging piece of advice
Speaker:you just want everyone to know to be able to thrive
Speaker:post open heart surgery? I guess the first thing is
Speaker:every, you know, if you have a sternotomy and
Speaker:you have open heart surgery, like there, there's lots of different issues
Speaker:and, you know, I'm a good success story in that
Speaker:I was able to basically return to my activity at
Speaker:the same capacity. And I understand that that's not going to be the
Speaker:same for everyone, you know, like these structural issues
Speaker:that we have with our hearts, like, they're all different and they all have different
Speaker:fixes and solutions and outcomes and stuff and. But
Speaker:for me, probably the biggest thing was, I don't want to say I
Speaker:had this nice reinvention of myself, but there are
Speaker:upsides. Like, I am definitely a different person
Speaker:in some ways, you know, and I'm still, you know, kind of, I don't
Speaker:want to say intense, but I'm still very focused and dedicated to the things that
Speaker:I do. But I definitely, in a good way, see things
Speaker:differently, you know, like, it's okay for me now to have to
Speaker:be at home dealing with something else while my friends are having a good powder
Speaker:day. Like, I used to not do well with that. Like, if I was missing
Speaker:out fomo, right? Like, that used to be hard for me, you know, if I
Speaker:had a trip that didn't go well, I'd be all bummed, like, ah, it didn't
Speaker:go well. Like, I'm definitely okay with
Speaker:success and failure more. And I'm much
Speaker:happier when I see friends or others doing things
Speaker:that are really, really cool. Like, I'm happy for them where maybe back in the
Speaker:day, when I was younger, in my twenties, I would have been like, damn, I
Speaker:didn't do that whatever and stuff. So call
Speaker:it this cathartic experience if you want. And I think focusing
Speaker:on things like that is important. And,
Speaker:yeah, that's definitely something that I thought quite a bit about. And like I said
Speaker:when I had that instance of, oh, you may not be doing this again, like,
Speaker:I'm okay now. If something happens to me, say I have a really bad knee
Speaker:injury and I can't return to skiing the way that I used to, like,
Speaker:I know what I'm going to do. Like, I've got this kind of plan b
Speaker:in the back of my head, and I'm okay with that. And I've, like, come
Speaker:to peace with it. And, yeah, I guess generally just I'm a little bit more
Speaker:relaxed. This sounds, like really
Speaker:down, like an emotional rabbit hole. But I listen to a lot of
Speaker:music, you know, when I'm on trips and stuff. And I Warren Zevon, someone who
Speaker:I really like, and there's a really good Saturday Night Live or not Saturday Night
Speaker:Live Letterman interview with him. And he at the
Speaker:time, had been diagnosed with cancer and had only so many months to live.
Speaker:And he kind of knew that during this interview. And he has this, like,
Speaker:line that I think became somewhat well known that says, you know, enjoy
Speaker:every sandwich is something like that. And that I
Speaker:felt that, like, you know, it was kind of like every trip, every moment. Like,
Speaker:you know, this is cool. Where for me it used to be
Speaker:I'm very objective oriented, goal based. Like, I need to accomplish this and then move
Speaker:on to the next thing. So the advice there, I guess, would be,
Speaker:you know, embrace, like, changing yourself through these, because
Speaker:oftentimes that change can be. Can be pretty positive and
Speaker:just kind of see where it will take you. Because, like, I look at my
Speaker:dad's experience, and he's a different person than he was prior. And. And, you know,
Speaker:my dad's always been a great person, but I'd say he's a healthier, better person
Speaker:than he was prior. So just focus on the things
Speaker:that you can control and then, you know, let everything else
Speaker:just do its. Do its thing. So that's a great place to
Speaker:stop. Enjoy every sandwich. I love it.
Speaker:Yeah. I'm grateful for you, Billy. It's a good Warren Zevon quote.
Speaker:Yeah. Thank you. Thank you
Speaker:so much for this. I'm
Speaker:better for it. I needed this today and I
Speaker:am just continuously amazed at the power of the
Speaker:human spirit to overcome the biggest of
Speaker:challenges. And you are. You
Speaker:exemplify that today. So where can listeners find
Speaker:you? I have a pretty modest Instagram account
Speaker:so that I unfortunately don't put enough stuff on,
Speaker:but that's one place. And then I'm. I work with a
Speaker:website called the high route.com dot. When you type it in, you got to do
Speaker:the hi route.com.
Speaker:but soon I should have an article on that
Speaker:and it's going to come out in print as well. That goes in a little
Speaker:more depth to my experience with my heart
Speaker:surgery and my return to skiing, as well as other articles. I do a lot
Speaker:of stuff on that, just beyond just trip reports and things. That's kind of my
Speaker:biggest platform. It's cool. And if you like skiing,
Speaker:it's a good thing to take a look at. Great. And I'll have all
Speaker:that in the show notes too, so it'll be easily clickable. But
Speaker:Billy, thank you so much for your generosity with your time today.
Speaker:And I know listeners are going to love this. And for
Speaker:those who are wanting to follow along,
Speaker:sure that you have subscribed to this podcast and
Speaker:there are a couple of things that are so helpful to someone like me
Speaker:who is an independent podcaster, believe it or not. Reviews
Speaker:on Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your
Speaker:podcasts really do matter, as well as
Speaker:following the podcast. And I have a
Speaker:Patreon community I'm just now launching in 2024,
Speaker:September of 2024, and it's going to have
Speaker:two options for Zoom meetups every
Speaker:month. I am hoping to accommodate those
Speaker:globally. So there will be one in the morning and one in the evening,
Speaker:mountain standard time to catch some of my european
Speaker:listeners. I would love it if you'd consider becoming a
Speaker:member of Patreon. You can find me at Patreon.
Speaker:It's a way to keep this podcast going and I
Speaker:so appreciate you coming back every week to listen. Be sure to
Speaker:come back next week for another episode of open Heart surgery with boots.
