Cowgirl Artists of America’s podcast explores the unique challenges faced by neurodivergent artists, particularly those with ADHD, in managing their creative businesses. Megan Wimberley, the host, emphasizes that many common struggles, like disorganization and procrastination, aren’t simply character flaws but rather reflect how neurodivergent brains process tasks and motivation differently. Dr. Tara Fox joins the conversation to shed light on ADHD's complexities, discussing executive functioning and providing practical strategies for improving productivity. The episode highlights the importance of understanding and working with one’s brain rather than against it, encouraging listeners to identify their strengths while navigating the demands of their artistic endeavors. Through candid dialogue and expert insights, this episode aims to empower creative individuals to build systems that align with their unique cognitive styles.

Takeaways:

• ADHD is often misunderstood, especially in adults and women, leading to misconceptions about its effects on creativity and productivity.
• Understanding executive functioning is crucial for artists with ADHD, as it influences motivation and task management in unique ways.
• Neurodivergent individuals can benefit from tailored routines and systems that align with their specific needs and cognitive processes.
• Creating a functional workspace can significantly enhance productivity for those with ADHD, reducing mental fatigue and chaos during creative work.

Mentioned in this episode:

Cowgirl Gathering and CGA's Artist Conference

Cowgirl Gathering Artist Shootout- View details and apply at: https://cowgirl-gathering-2026.artcall.org CGA Artist Conference: Reserve your tickets at: https://cowgirl-artists-of-america.mn.co/plans/1982337? (Members- use link in member space to save $50!

Hi, welcome to Cowgirl Artists of America's podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Cowgirl Artists of America, Megan Wimberley. Today we're diving into a topic that many artists have asked about.

And judging by the responses from our members, it's one that resonates deeply. Adhd, neurodivergent brains, and running a creative business.

Artists are often told or feel that they're disorganized, inconsistent procrastinators or, or just not disciplined enough. But what if some of those struggles aren't character flaws or personality traits?

What if they are the result of a brain that processes information, motivation and tasks differently? To help us better understand how neurodivergent minds work, we're joined once again by Dr. Tara Fox.

Tara is the Clinical Director and an Assistant Clinical professor at Sacred Heart University. She earned her PhD in counselor education from Texas Tech University and and is a licensed professional counselor supervisor in the state of Texas.

She is passionate about mental, physical and emotional wellbeing and has presented and published on topics including burnout, boundaries, compassion, fatigue, grief and resilience. Today we'll be talking about adhd, executive functioning, productivity, procrastination, emotional regulation, and practical strategies.

So we're covering a lot today for artists trying to build businesses that work for their brains rather than against them. Tara, thank you so much for joining us again.

Thank you for having me. I'm so pleased to be back with you and sharing information to the members and also hanging out with one of my dearest friends.

Well, let's just dive right in. What exactly is ADHD and what are some common misconcept.

Misconceptions people have about it, especially in adults and maybe even especially in women.

Yeah, so ADHD stands for attention Deficit Hyperactivity disorder and we utilize the, the DSM 5TR to diagnose as clinicians. And really what that means is there are three different types of ADHD within the DSM 5tr that we are looking at. So we have inattentive types.

So that's going to be individuals who struggle with the focus, maybe daydreaming, things like that. Then we have the impulsivity type, which or and hyperactivity type. So that's typically the, the traditional ADHD that most people think about.

So that could be the hyperactivity, could be just having bounce and bounce and energy, can't sit still, bouncing legs. But the impulsivity might be, you know, you interrupt people when you're talking.

It could be having the knee jerk reaction to go buy things when you're shopping, you know, just that in impulsive desire, like if you think about something, you immediately have to get up and go do it. And then there's also combined type. And combined type means that you strug with both the inattention and the hyperactivity or the impulsivity.

And so typically in the difference between looking at ADHD and men and women is that typically the men will manifest ADHD with the hyperactivity, and the women will typically manifest it in the impulsivity. So sometimes when people hear the attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, they'll be like, well, that's not me.

And so it's really taking that next step and look at what ADHD really is. And so I'm excited that we're going to, we're going to talk about that.

Yeah. Oh, go ahead.

I was just going to say. So what is it is. So ADHD falls into a category of neurodivergence.

It could stem from issues with executive functioning, which we're going to talk a lot more about.

Task initiation, planning, prioritizing memory, attention regulation, emotional regulation, um, but also can really impact our relationships when we function with the people in our life if. Especially if. If they're more atypical and maybe they don't struggle with adhd.

Yeah. And just in that answer, in and of itself, reminds me just how complex just ADHD alone is.

And so I want to remind people that this is not comprehensive and there are so many wonderful resources, which you're welcome to share some if you want. But I remember when the first time my friend told me that they have ADHD and they told me I had adhd and I was like, no, I don't.

And I sat there and argued with them and I was like, why do you finally. I was just like, why do you think I have that? And he was like, because you have more coping mechanisms than anyone I know.

And that's common with women especially that we, we are really socialized to be pleasing to people and things like that. And so we work so hard to accommodate for our deficits.

And often for women, in fact, it doesn't become too as big a problem until they're an adult, and then they maybe have a spouse and children and a job and a house, and that's when things start to fall apart for them. So again, very complex. Sometimes we don't think it's something we struggle with when, when we do.

But there's great resources that you can go and you can read books and things like that. But I know for Me when I finally did kind of come to the terms with that my brain functions differently.

And this is kind of one of those things for me that I don't necessarily really want the care about a label. I just want to know how my brain functions so I can work with myself rather than against myself.

But so many artists are tend to be neurodivergent, whether it's adhd, hd, autism, you know, just dyslexia, even a lot of people are autistic, have brains that kind of work this way and it makes us think a little bit differently and tends to go that direction.

And so I know as a business owner there are times when I can really tell like oh my gosh, I am just really struggling with procrastination or, or feeling overwhelmed. And so I've done a lot of work to figure out how to work with myself.

But I wonder, Tara, because you also have ADHD and you are a business owner and you work in a capacity where there's a lot of responsibility. So how have you noticed that in your life?

Yeah, I would say that most people in my life would be really shocked to know that my default setting is actually to be a lot more flexible and tight be because that is not at all who I have to be in my professional life. I'm very organized, very type A, but vacation. Tara really loves to not have a schedule and really loves other people to make decisions.

And so that's kind of when I get to fall back into my natural habitat of being more type B and relaxed and flexible.

But yeah, I mean having a business being, working in higher education, supervising mentorship, there's so many juggling balls in different roles I have to roll in and out of within a day that I really have to have a lot of coping strategies for myself too. And, and I know that I'm a lot more productive in the morning.

So I will pack on my, my tasks and items that I know take a lot of mental energy for myself in the morning so that I can have a little bit more of a, a coast afternoon for myself. But, but everyone is going to be different.

Some people may not be morning people and maybe they don't need to start their day till 11 if their job allows or their career allows or their. So it's really figuring out when are you the most productive? What parameters do you need to be the most successful?

Because essentially that's the goal is for us to set ourselves up for the most success that we can and try not to be the one that gets in our own Way.

Oh, I love that. Yeah, for sure. So our big focus today is really about work ethic and work and adhd.

And so when we think about the difference between work ethic and this term executive, executive functioning, where, you know, some people either label themselves or get labeled as lazy or unmotivated, you know, lacking discipline. But with adhd, that's really not what's happening. So can you explain to us what executive function is and how this differs from work ethic?

Yeah, absolutely. So work ethic, typically, when we think about it, it's. It's a value system.

Like it is a personal or professional moral code or code of ethics that we assign to ourselves. Whereas executive functioning is more about cognitive process and how our brain works.

And so the work ethic determines how much that you care about producing results or acting responsibly, whereas the why of executive functioning, it determines how your brain translates intention into physical, organized action. And so when we think about that, we tie work ethic to things like dedication, integrity, responsibility, and the desire to do a job well.

We assign working memory, cognitive flexibility, and control to the executive functioning. So the root cause of work ethic, of why we get these belief systems in our head, is it's shaped by culture.

And so it could be our upbringing, our personal values, our life experiences. Whereas executive functioning is rooted in our biology. It's controlled heavily by our brains.

And so that's kind of the difference between work ethic and executive funct functioning.

Sorry, I'm taking a little note here. Or actually, I could just ask you this. It might be a little out of order, but as I was listening to you talk, I was thinking about.

Because of what you're saying, there are certain types of tasks. What I was really thinking about, about being a kid on, like with horses and animals, and there's tasks that people with ADHD are just gonna eat up.

They're gonna love it, and it's so easy for them to go out and do it.

You know, I think horseback riding and caring for horses is one of those things because it's so sensorial and you're getting to move your body and it's different and all this stuff. But there are tasks that are going to be even harder. And so actually, I'm going to not ask the question.

I'm going to say we're going to come back to that in case anybody else was thinking about that.

But what I do want to talk about with tasks is switching between tasks, because there's tasks we like, there's tasks we don't like, and then there's also just kind of the momentum of doing a task and having to stop and go to the next. And I often am, from the way I visualize it for myself, it's kind of like a train.

And when a train gets to going, it can be really hard to slow it down and then to get it going again can be really hard. And so what is going on with that?

You know, what is it with like the artist that will sit down and paint for eight hours and think it's been like 20 minutes? Yeah.

So I think we tend to take on roles and when you're neurodivergent, even more.

So we, we throw ourselves into it, because when you're neurodivergent, you're more likely to be creative, artistic, maybe a little dramatic flair thrown in there. Right. And so we really throw ourselves into role and that helps us to do a task when we can fully invest ourselves.

And, you know, an example of this is why is spending an hour on email more draining than, you know, painting for eight hours or doing pottery for eight hours or recording music for eight hours? And, and the difference is it's, it's triggering different parts of our brain. And so adhd, we are dopamine seekers.

So if it is giving us dopamine and it's something that we genuinely enjoy, it is so easy for us to hyper focus and lose ourselves in those scenarios. And so because of that, that one hour of email is going to drain us more than the, you know, long hours of the creative task that we actually enjoy.

Because the email is something we dread. It is not something giving us dopamine.

It is something that we're having to shift our brain out of the creative space and out of our passion in order to do. And that takes a lot of effort. You know, it takes a lot of effort to shift out of where our default setting wants to be.

And so that's why it's hard to shift focus, and that's why it's hard to do things that we don't enjoy, is because we're not getting the same chemicals going through our brain when we're doing those things.

So, two things.

As I was thinking about the way I asked that question, what a great example of an ADHD brain, because I think I asked you about 20, but you were able to answer that in such a good way. But going back to like the, this dopamine sort of thing, I'm curious.

I know this isn't one of the questions that I had on my list, but I'm curious, what is the difference between the way somebody with ADHD's brain is producing or using chemicals versus like quote unquote a typical brain?

Like, is there a way to explain that where we can understand like this is the way a typical person, what their brain would be doing, switching between tasks that they like or don't like and why it's easier for them versus are we just like addicted to dopamine if we have an adhd? Like, what is that what's happening? Yeah.

So essentially we're gonna say like an atypical brain. So an atypical brain is really good at maintaining a very steady baseline of dopamine. It releases it on a very predictable level.

It can anticipate it's, it's gonna be there. It's not inconsistent. And it, it's.

The chemical acts as a reliable fuel system, allowing our brain to stay focused on mundane long term or routine tasks without needing external stimulation.

Whereas an ADHD brain and how it interacts with dopamine is that the brain has a difficulty absorbing the dopamine and it creates, so it creates because it, it has fewer and, and less sensitive dopamine receptors in the brain, a neurodivergent brain.

And so because of this, ADHD brains have an excess, an excess of dopamine transporters which vacuum up the dopamine and recycles the dopamine before the brain can fully utilize it. So an atypical brain, very routine, very scheduled, able to release and absorb, very predictable versus an ADHD brain.

You never know when it's coming, you never know how much is going to get absorbed and you never know how long it's going to stay in your system. So it's just a lot more inconsistent.

That's fascinating. Is So a dopamine is a, what is the term for what that is, that chemical? It's a, not a hormone, but it would be a.

So, yeah, so there's different chemicals in the brain. So dopamine. So there's norepinephrine, dopamine and, and we really have to think about both of those. But. So they're very closely related.

They are considered neurotransmitters and hormones that. Oh, they are hormones that drive the brain's reward system, focus, stress responses. But they're very closely related.

But yeah, neurotransmitters, transmitters is probably the word you were thinking.

Okay, I guess so dopamine primarily regulates motivation, pleasure, executive function, whereas norepinephrine governs alertness, arousal, fight, orf, flight mechanisms so like, we kind of have to talk about both because they're very closely related, but most people just focus on the dopamine because that's like the, the trendy word. But we, we do need to address both.

And so, so to break both of them down because I know this is kind of off topic, but it's, it's exciting for me because I like to talk about, um, but dopamine is, is, you know, like I said, tied to motivation, reward, learning, motor control. And the norepinephrine is alertness, attention, stress responses. And so dopamine creates a feeling of satisfaction or drive to accomplish goals.

So you can see that if we are struggling to absorb that dopamine or keep it in our system, then we're not really having that same satisfaction or the drive to accomplish goals. So that, that's going to be the hour of email.

That's why we want to, like, go to the novel.

That's right. We want to do what, what's fueling the dopamine because it's not gonna give us the desire to go do those emails. Right.

And so whereas the norepinephrine heightens the villagence heart rate and blood flow, so it kind of keeps things flowing. And so when we are low on dopamine, that can be linked to depression, lack of motivation, things like that.

And when we're low on norepinephrine, it can cause brain fog, fatigue, and poor concentration. So you see, see that there could be a lot of overlap and it may not be dopamine. So it's important to, to, to look at both of them.

And then I'm just thinking, as a woman, we are already dealing with hormonal fluctuations. And then, so if you have ADHD and your woman, you're dealing with hormonal fluctuations and then this.

So I just, in my mind, as I'm listening to you talk, I'm like, we need to be so gracious with ourselves when we're struggling, because that's a lot. I wonder.

So as people, hopefully as they listen to that, they're thinking about, okay, I could see how this is going to affect the way that I work and I think about big tasks. You know, so many ADHD people get overwhelmed with the big tasks.

And whether it's that they cannot get it started or they are just having a hard time staying focused for the long term, it can just be a constant struggle. And so you already kind of explained that in the very complex questions I threw at you. Thank you for answering them.

But so we know why it's happening, but what are some things we can do to help ourselves stay on task when the novelty wears off or we have to do those things we don't like?

Yeah, I think we really have to be able to separate self worth from productivity.

And I think that's a really difficult thing for us to do because the culture that we're living in is very much tying how much we produce, what we give back to value and worth. And so really having to have a good conversation with ourselves and separate that out, because they are not the same thing.

We also need to shift our focus away from perfectionism to measuring progress and so breaking things up into small goals.

Thinking about, you know, looking at, you know, I've done this and I've done this instead of just focusing on the big picture, but looking at the micro and not just the macro. Understand that there's going to be a variation between our energy and attention every day.

And so some days you may have all the attention and all the dopamine to fuel yourself and take advantage of it. If it's there, use it.

Because there's going to be a day when it's not there and you could force yourself to do something, but you know, it's not going to be the same. And so sometimes it's, it's just learning to ebb and flow, designing systems to reduce cognitive load.

So whether that's scheduling when we're going to do the tasks we don't really want to do in a time when we know our brain's clicking a little bit better, whether that's morning or afternoon, use any, any kind of accommodations that we can create for ourselves. Because burnout is, you know, I've, I've published on burnout. I've presented on burnout.

And the thing about burnout is that it takes up to seven years, seven years to get through burnout when you're in full burnout. And so you really want to make sure that you're taking steps to avoid that, because once you're there, it takes a very long time to come out of it.

And so creating systems around yourself, coping skills around yourself to prioritize your mental health, your overall wellness. Because, you know, we only get one body, we only get one mind. We, we need to take care of it.

And then we also need to recognize that needing support is not a sign of weakness.

So whether that's your support systems, your friends, your family, a therapist, medication, you know, whatever that looks like, just understanding that that is not a weakness, diagnosis is, is just Answers to questions that you've had about yourself.

Yeah, and I know I said I didn't want a label for me, and that's just a personal thing for that, you know, like, definitely. No, not discouraging that for people who will benefit from that.

Especially if you want to get on medication for adhd, you're going to have to have that diagnosis, but it can be so helpful. And you were talking about how ADHD can cause depression and just all these different things.

And there are some great medications that can help people who struggle with that. And I've seen people who truly needed medication in order to function. And so there is no shame in that. Definitely feel free or.

We encourage people always to get the help that they need. That's going to work for them. I wonder, with artists, we're talking about this, pursuing the novel and having a hard time staying focused.

And one of the. The beautiful and challenging things about having an artistic mind is all of the exciting ideas. Do you have any advice for somebody who.

Who has a hard time staying on the thing that they've decided to do because they want to pursue one of those exciting ideas or they're wanting to pursue all the exciting ideas at once? Is there any kind of practical advice for people that are struggling with that?

Yeah, I mean, I think something that most ADHD individuals can relate to is the needing to capture the idea immediately. Like, as soon as we have it, we need to capture it in some way. I have over 500 notes in my phone. So, you know, we all have a system of works for us.

And I'm sure if I went through them, I will never go through them, but I'm sure if I were to go through them all, I could delete many notes.

I have to ask, do you think we could just diagnose ADHD by saying, open your notes app. Let's see how many you.

I think that would be a really interesting way to get to know someone is just to ask how many. But, yeah, so I feel like that is something about being adhd is we feel like we have to capture the.

The brain dump instantly because if we don't, we lose it. Right.

And so whether that's a note in your phone, whether that's a voice memo to yourself, whether that's, you know, some people like pen and paper, you know, whatever it is that works for you, making sure that you have an avenue to put that brain dump and. And not getting caught in the filter when you're, you know, releasing those ideas.

So don't try to evaluate or organize it, just get it down and then you can do that later. Because if we don't get it out, then we're still going to have the mental clutter of trying to hold on to that idea.

So, like just getting it out, whether it's on paper or digitally or in a voice note, and then also visualizing. So I like to use visualization. It really is helpful if you are of the ADHD persuasion where it comes with anxiety as well.

So if you struggle with anxiety and you're also adhd, visualization can be a really helpful tool for you.

Because what you will realize is when you are stepping into scenarios that you've never been somewhere, you don't know who's going to be there, those are going to cause anxiety.

And if we can visualize those things, even if it's just knowing what a place looks like, knowing what the parking scenario looks like, I can't tell you how many times I've looked places up on Google Maps just to see what the parking scenario is before I leave my house. So, you know, we can do things to help us visualize and make those social situations easier or just navigating that unknown a little bit easier too.

But yeah, I mean, we just gotta get our ideas out and not get bogged down too much by the details. So it's really just doing the brain dump and keeping track of it.

That's awesome. Yeah.

And another thing that I did not think to talk about today, but I kind of advice and then I am going to do a little plug for something actually, because as you were talking, I was thinking about one of the things that I've found that helps me and one of the things that I coach people to do when I'm working with artists is to set a plan that is based on their values and what they want their life to look like. And that can be so helpful because it can help you to say no to things.

And CJ is a good example because when I first started it, we started with and we have kept these four core principles of community education, collaboration and promotion. So we've had some great opportunities that have come our way that don't fit in that. And so it's. It's much easier to say no.

Like we can say, oh, this is really awesome, but no, we can't do it. It doesn't fit with. And had I not done that, I think I would have been so scattered that it would have created a really unmanageable system.

And so that's something we can do. And the plug is that in the foundations course that I developed and I teach, that's what we start with. We start with that.

And I have found that for me, it has helped so much. And for artists who've taken the course, it really helps them to see where they want to go. And that's another way to create that visual.

So if you're a member, if you're not a member, I'll be promoting that when I open it up. But I think it is a really. A really great thing to do. And even if you don't take the course, think about, what do you want your life to look like?

Because it can help you to rein things in. Because it is. It's such a blessing and a curse for the creative brain to have. Just, I have so many ideas, and you just.

You have to let some of them go. You cannot do all of them. And it's hard because it's like all your little babies. Yeah.

And you know what? Sometimes we have to say no to some really great things just because we don't have the mental capacity to add something else.

And so, again, that's when you document. And maybe there's a time in your life where you can come back to it. It. But not everything is good for right now.

And that's hard when we want to do all the things that bring us joy.

No, I was about to say a theologian. I can't remember who wrote it. But anyway, 4,000 weeks is a great one to talk. It talks about our limited time and how we can prioritize things.

But with the ADHD brain, often everything can feel equally important or urgent. Are there ways we can manage that side of feeling overwhelmed?

Yeah, I mean, there's absolutely things we can do. And it is 4,000 weeks by Oliver Berkman. There we go.

Oliver Berkman. I was going to say Walter Brueggeman,.

Which is very close. Very close.

So, yeah, there's absolutely things that we can do to make things feel more tangible so we can break projects into small, actionable items. And we kind of talked about that a little before. We can visualize task systems. Check checklists. I love it.

I have a checklist in front of me right now. So, like, I love a checklist and I prefer a written checklist because there is something so satisfying about crossing off something on my checklist.

We can schedule focused Work blocks with planned breaks. So a lot of times what that might look like is, you know, 25 minutes working, five minutes off and kind of just cycle through. That could be longer.

It depends on your attention span. So it could be 15, five, it could, you know, could be 55, five. It kind of just depends on what you're able to do.

We can create external reminders instead of relying on our memory. Because if I don't write something down, if I don't put it in my phone, if I don't block it in my calendar, it's not going to happen.

We can prioritize one to three critical tasks a day, reduce distractions before beginning important work.

So if we feel like we are getting pulled back on our phones when we're trying to invest in something like really put our phones on, do not disturb or put it in a different room, there's a lot of things we can do there. We can use body doubling. I love body doubling.

Accountability partners co working sessions track accomplishments to counteract negative self perceptions.

We can build recovery time into schedules if we've had a period of intense focus or maybe we had to go and socialize and that's really draining to us. So kind of build in the rest. But also we just have to remember that we are constantly reviewing and adjusting our systems.

And so what might be working for us right now that might not work for us in six months? So always being, you know, thinking, is this still working for me? Is it doing what I want it to do?

And kind of just learning to be really reflective without judgment with ourselves.

And if you've listened to this list and you're like, oh, all those things, I want to know what they were. You did create a great handout, which is part of what we've used to create this podcast and determine our questions. So it's really good.

And we'll include that on in our member space. We'll be adding that. But I have to ask, I'm sure it's not nearly as exciting as what I would love for it to be, but what is body doubling?

Okay, so body doubling.

An example of this is like let's say, Megan, that you had emails to do and you dread emails, but you know that I, I work from home, I'm working remote. I'm also doing emails.

So maybe we get on zoom and we both spend an hour to do emails and we're not really talking to each other, but we can see that we are both doing emails and we are in the trenches of emails together. And so that body doubling experience helps us to motivate and stay on TAs because we know that other person is doing something very similar.

Oh, interesting. And then one thing I want to add actually to the list. As you were talking, I thought about the Eisenhower Matrix, which helps me a lot.

And that's something that I've talked about before, where you do, you know, is it. There's a. One of the planes. Is, is it time sensitive or not? And then is it important or not? And so you have four quadrants.

So if you Google Eisenhower matrix, you can see to do that.

But for my brain, when I get really overwhelmed to the point where I'm stuck, you know, that point where I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't know, or I even know what to do, but I just can't do it because I know that there's so much. I will sit down and take 20, 30 minutes and do the Eisenhower Matrix.

And even though I want to work on those other things, but I know that this is the most top priority and that can be super, super helpful just to get you.

I feel like when I get to that point, it's kind of like when you get your car stuck in the mud and you're like spinning your wheels, but you're not going anywhere. And so the Eisenhower Matrix, I think is really helpful for getting out of that. Okay, so one member mentioned. Oh, I actually, hold on.

I think I might have missed one of our questions. Nope, I didn't. Okay, so one member mentioned struggling with the ideas that routines have to look the same every day.

Is there a healthier way for neurodivergent people to think about routines?

Yeah, the, the routine is whatever you need it to be. So everyone's routine is going to be what works for me may not work for other people. I am someone who, like I said, I'm adhd. I have anxiety.

Once my brain is awake and functioning, I'm not going back to sleep. And so for me, I get up, I have my coffee, I get on the computer and, you know, I, I'm pretty, you know, I'm gonna do pretty well in the morning.

I've got my coffee going, maybe I'm not on meetings, so I've got my music going. I'm motivated. But I tend to have afternoon crashes of just. I've already been productive for multiple hours.

So again, I try to front load my morning so that I can have more relaxing afternoons. And so I think the big thing here to remember is just that your routine may not look like someone else's routine.

So we know that the three Cs of negativity is complaining, comparing, and critiquing. Right?

And so the reason why we really want to focus in on that is the comparing can get really hard when we're comparing someone else's routine to our routine. And so just learning to accept what our routine is and feel confident that it works for us. And I know that's not the answer that everyone wants.

Everyone wants the, the quick fix answer that's gonna, this is the thing that I need to do, but it's different for everybody and we really have to figure out what that looks like for us. And again, review every few months. Is this still working? Do I need to do something else?

Yeah. I love that you mentioned reviewing every few months because sometimes we have a great routine and it is working and then it doesn't anymore.

And so that's okay. So. And even from day to day, so I'm the same as you.

I typically want my, my most important and my mental heavy loads in the morning, but sometimes that's just not gonna work. And so the other thing I really love is Google Calendar because you can just, just drag the things around. It's fine, it's not a big deal.

And if you're scheduling a little extra time, you've got those buffers. So I think that that's great. In addition to this sort of thing, what about creating a functional workspace?

Do you think that that's important for people with adhd?

Oh, yes. In fact, I feel like when we are neurodivergent, what our workspace looks like may even impact us more than the atypical brain.

And so I think we tend to make excuses for our workspace of, well, I still know where everything is, but it's just because it takes a lot of mental energy to clean and organize a space and our brains are hardwired for denial.

And what I mean by that is it's much easier to be in denial about something and not want to acknowledge that we actually need to do something to change.

And so, so it's easier in that scenario to justify why our workspace is messy or unorganized, but we really do need it to be organized to where we do not have to expend a lot of energy to find what we need to find. And so yes, it really does matter what your workspace feels like to you.

If it feels chaotic, that's going to absorb into your bones and you're going to take that chaotic energy into everything you do into your art, into your interactions, into your dreaded email time. You know, whatever it is, you're gonna take that energy with you.

Yeah. And I think it also can.

It almost can start creating fatigue in your brain, I feel like, because you may not even realize how much it is affecting you. And. And the. A good way to know.

So say you're sitting in your studio listening to this right now, and you're looking around, you're like, yeah, my studio is a mess, but I love it. This is how I like to work.

Blah, blah, blah.

Maybe take a day or half a day or whatever and organize your space and see how you feel when you're done with it, when you walk in.

Because sometimes I think we get used to the environment that we're living or working in, and we don't realize how much it is affecting us until it changes. And so that's a good way to see if it helps you. And if you struggle with that, this the good thing.

I think one of the things that can be helpful is getting visuals. So whether it's looking at Pinterest or watching TikTok videos about organization, and it can kind of kick.

Give us that, I guess, that little dopamine kick. Right. We get excited about, and then we want to do those things. So there's ways to help, help keep ourselves motivated. So maybe it.

For a while, I was, like, trying, really trying to work on being, like, tidier or, like, cleaner. And so I would.

In the morning, I would watch a couple of, like, clean talk, you know, tick tocks, and you see these people, like, scrubbing, and it looks so beautiful, and then it makes you want to go scrub your kitchen. Do I like scrubbing my kitchen?

No.

But I did. I want to. Yes. And so we can kind of trick our brains into doing some of this too by latching onto some of those things.

Do you have any other, like, little random tips like that? Yeah.

So using YouTube videos, social media videos to body double and trick our brains into doing things we don't want to do.

It's.

It's a hack, man. It works, right. If it gets you cleaning your. Your kitchen or cleaning the bathroom or doing laundry, utilize it.

You know, we got to get our dopamine wherever we can.

Yeah. And ritual, I think, can help too. So I've. I've shared before with our members about. I create a ritual of, like, creating a hot.

Getting a hot drink usually and taking it to the studio before I paint. And often I'm listening to the same playlist and that will trigger My brain.

So even on days when I'm like, I don't really feel like painting today, I'm tired, whatever, but my. I start smelling that drink and I fill the warm cup and I listen to the music and then my brain is like, oh, yeah, this is what we're doing.

And so those things can be really helpful too. We're going to shift gears just a little bit and then we'll kind of wrap up.

But we did have one member asking about relationships and communication, social interactions and in business situations that aren't clearly defined. And I think some of this can also maybe be a little bit of anxiety as well, those of us that are a little bit socially awkward.

But why can ambiguity be so challenging for neurodivergent individuals? And what are some strategies for helping when they need a network or build professional relationships, you know, in these situations? Yeah.

So I think, and I'll speak from personal experience here, because it could be very different person to person. But I think for me, I learned that getting control and being more type A and organized helped me to, to enter into spaces more confidently.

Spaces where maybe I couldn't visualize who was going to be somewhere or what conversations we're going to be like. And again, I, I am ADHD and I do have anxiety, so it definitely is more of the anxiety flare here.

But yeah, I think utilizing visualization, just having an understanding that when things feel messy or out of control or we, we can't predict what something is going to look like, feel like, you know, mine is how long am I going to be stuck somewhere? That's what I want to know. You know, when can I leave?

Because I love an Irish good night where I just, you know, slip away and don't tell anyone I'm leaving. So it's figuring out what's a good system for you and, and what can your energy level handle?

Because everyone's social battery is different person to person. Whether you're atypical or neurodivergent, it's different.

And so, and that goes into, sometimes we're extroverts, sometimes we're introverts, sometimes we're ambiverts, maybe. And so it depends also, like, who are we around? So for me, I, I truly am more of an introvert, but I can be ambivert.

And what I really mean by that is if I'm around people that I enjoy, people that do not drain my social battery, do not drain my energy, then I will come across as being very extroverted.

But I am not so if you put me in a social situation where I have to small talk, where I have to smile, where I have to nod, where I have to be a public Persona of myself, that's very draining to me. And I will need three to five business days to recover. So I.

So, you know, it's just having a good understanding of where we're at, what makes sense for us, and. And setting ourselves up for success because we, again, going back to where we started, we want to try not to be in our own way as much as possible.

Yeah. And also, you can build in those three to five business days. Right. Especially as artists, often our schedules are more flexible. I do that.

I build in after an event. There are about two to five days where I'm like, I don't want social interaction. I'm not doing things. I'm not even doing stuff with my friends.

So you can build that in. Another thing that I like to do is you can get over some of these things by, like, kind of pretending to be someone else. Like, not.

You want to be authentic to yourself, but you think, like, what would the version of me that's sociable be? And then you just go pretend to be that person. And something about that can kind of be helpful.

Early on, whenever I was first starting my business, I struggled with talking about prices and feeling insecure about prices. So I thought, what if an artist hired me and I had to talk to this customer about prices? I would just tell them confidently the prices.

I could also confidently tell them how great the artist was or whatever. And so I'd pretend, like, okay, if I'm working for myself, how would I talk to this person? And it helps us get.

It's kind of a trick for getting out of our own way in those situations. And so I'm certainly not the most at ease, and I am certainly not the most sociable, extroverted person.

But most people who know me through CGA or the arts community are shocked to find out that I am an introvert. It exhausts me to do these events and be with all these people. But it's because I've been able to practice, and you do develop those skills.

And are you going to go home and be exhausted and have, like, a human hangout hangover? Yes, you are. But guess what? You made friends. You connected with people.

Am I ever going to be as at ease as, like, my friend Morgan, who just is such a social butterfly and is so confident? No, never. I'm gonna look at her and be like, whoa, wow. That's amazing. But Can I learn some tricks from watching her? Sure I can. So you know it.

We do get better with practice. We probably are not ever going to be energized by those things, but we can get better and be more confident.

Yeah. And, and we can do hard things. Right. Like, just because something is hard or difficult doesn't mean that we can't do it.

And we can still do things that are hard, even when we're feeling anxiety. So it's not that we see someone and think, oh my gosh, they don't struggle at all. They could be an anxious mess on the inside.

But that's not what you're seeing. Right.

And that's kind of the hard part is when we're dealing with ourselves, we see all of the skeletons in our own closet and when we see someone else, we're seeing their curated version that they're choosing to show us. And so that's just a very different dichotomy between we see everything about ourselves and we see just what the other person wants, wants us to see.

Yeah, that's a great point. And like we said in our last podcast together, do it scared, do it anxious, do it afraid, do it whatever, just do it.

One more on the relational side, what about for, you know, one of our artists talked about how to help their family members understand that productivity may look different for someone with adhd. Are there any conversations or ways of approaching those conversations that you would encourage people to have?

Yeah, I think having conversations with your partner about, or your family members or whoever you're interfacing with about, about the limitations that you have energy level wise or maybe about the systems that you have in place to support you and navigate your own ADHD and your own coping strategies and systems that you have built for yourself. You know, I, I'm a, as a counselor, I'm going to advocate for healthy communication. Right.

That's always the answer is to have good conversations and healthy communication with those closest to us so that they have a good understanding. And something about being ADHD is that we always want to know the why. So when we always want to know the why, other people want to know the why too.

So having those open conversations which in order to have those open conversations, we also have to be open to other each exploring it about ourselves and to be open to increasing that self awareness about ourselves. And so that takes some time to shift from this is new, this is scary.

I don't know how to talk about it versus I'm getting more comfortable, I'm having a better Understanding, I think I can talk to people about it. And so this is just, you know, progress and personal growth is, is not linear. There's no finish line on it. We're always just working on ourselves.

And so I think, think just having those conversations. Yeah.

Yeah, that's great.

And I think before we get to our closing questions, just to remind people too, that you might be seeing whatever struggle it is that you have, but your struggles also come with superpowers.

And, you know, people don't often realize that ADHD comes with the super power of hyper focus, maybe being more aware of things, seeing connections other people don't see.

So I, if I get feeling bad about myself for something like, say, because I'm not, I'm not an extrovert, and I start feeling self conscious about that. But then I remind myself that, hey, being an introvert comes with things that I have strengths where extroverts don't have.

And so it's always good to remind yourself of those things when you're feeling a little self conscious. If there is one thing you wish that every artist with ADHD or executive functioning challenges understood about themselves, what would it be? That.

It's.

It's nothing to make you less than. Like, this is not something that makes you less than anyone else versus anyone else who, with ADHD or anyone else with an atypical brain.

It is just part of who you are, and it's just learning how to, how to utilize it in a way that really benefits you. And again, yeah, there's a lot of superpowers in, in being adhd. I often wonder if I would be doing half of what I'm doing if I was not adhd.

And so I think that it can be. It can be a blessing to, to be adhd. I. I collect hobbies I've lived. I feel like I've lived, you know, multiple lifetimes.

And I can, I can pinpoint very specific times in my life where I was really into different things. And so while I might not be super proficient at a lot of things, I'm really good at a lot of things. And so I think that's part of the.

ADHD is kind of being a jack of all trade and being able to get in and have a working understanding about a lot of things and just being able to throw yourself in and try. And I think that's a really good superpower.

I love that. Okay, last question. And we're just gonna say that this is yours, but obviously there are other practical steps.

But Tara, for you, what is One practical step that you would recommend listeners could take this week to make their life more ADHD friendly.

I think letting go of the. The burden of meeting someone else's expectations of what their productivity is supposed to look like.

Like, you know, anytime that we are trying to meet someone else's goals, someone else's expectations, or comparing ourselves to other people, that's just not gonna feel good, and it's not setting ourselves up for success. So I think sitting down, really looking at what is a good goal for you and using that goal to.

To kind of create a system around to set you up for success, to pursue that, and just understanding that trial and error, that is how we learn what works for us. It's not just the first thing we, you know, Megan, the first thing that we did to manage our ADHD did not work, most likely. So, you know, it's. It's.

It's taken years, it's taken decades. And so just figuring out what works for you and know that. That, you know, everyone's journey is different.

Yeah, that's great. Thank you so much, Tara, for being with us again and sharing all your knowledge.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah. So I hope everybody enjoyed today's episode of the Cowgirl Artists of America's podcast. Again.

I will be launching the foundations course very soon, and it is such a fabulous course, and it's honestly one of the most exciting things I do because I get to see these artists go through the course, and I have literally seen measurable gains from the artist going through the course. And so that has been a very exciting thing for me. But follow us on Facebook.

Follow Dr. Tara Fox for good mental health advice, and I hope that everybody is having a great week creating and finding systems that work for them.