You might have heard our show back in April of 2020 with Walt, MA. At age 37; as a result of his passion for building and commitment to helping others, Walt was awarded the BusinessWest Forty Under 40, class of 2013. Walt has served as president on the board of directors for Greater Springfield Habitat for Humanity, as well as the State of Massachusetts and Western Massachusetts Home Builders & Remodelers Associations and continues to play an important role within those organizations.

We talk today about making sure those exterior conditions stay exterior. We dive into how to keep that water from destroying that new project. If you are going to tackle a deck, windows, or siding this is a show that should be a must listen to episode.

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[00:00:01] Around the House (Trasncription powered by Descript and is not edited for content and errors may occur.)

[00:00:29] Caroline Blazovsky: That's what I was going to say is that so many of my homeowners, like. Obviously, I look for mold and things like that. I'm an environmental consultant. So I see mold and I explained to them like the flashing was done wrong, or you don't have any. And they're like, well, how do we know? How do I know the difference?

[00:00:54] Walt Tamala: installer when it comes to remodeling and renovating your home? There is a lot to [00:01:00] know.

[00:01:06] Eric Goranson: Welcome to around the house with Eric G and Caroline. Be your source for home improvement, healthy homes, interior design, and construction every single week. Thanks for joining us. Hey Caroline, how you doing over there? Doing

[00:01:21] Eric Goranson: Excellent. We are even better now that we got my good friend in the house, Walt, Samala my building science guy that I always lean on for.

[00:01:35] Walt Tamala: Eric Caroline, thanks so much for having me greatly. Appreciate it. Looking forward to this.

[00:02:00] Walt Tamala: Yeah, we were teaching 17 sessions, uh, per, per show, uh, wherever we were going. Um, as far as integrating a weather resistant barrier, uh, otherwise known as the WRB into your house. Um, the different types of. Uh, w RVs that are out there and how important it was to use one full system. You know, a lot of folks out there think, oh, you know, I can use this rap and this tape and this product here.

[00:02:41] Walt Tamala: Um, but, uh, it's pretty exciting. So if I'm teaching that to builders, we can only imagine what we could be teaching homeowners. Right? Yeah. And I can

[00:02:56] Caroline Blazovsky: That was like science, like coming at me. [00:03:00] Woo.

[00:03:16] Eric Goranson: It could be on YouTube, but I tell you why there are so many horrible, basic mistakes that are being made by people, showing people how to do it out there to homeowners that are just, I'm going to put a new window in. So I'm going to take the old window out, put a bead of caulking around it, shoved the new one, and I've got my window replaced.

[00:03:44] Walt Tamala: Yeah. I tell you just like Eric, you know, we, we tell every builder, every remodeler, uh, everybody that we know out there is there's two types of windows, right?

[00:04:11] Walt Tamala: You want to be true. Um, first thing that I always check for Eric is, do I have a pitch sill because when the water does get in, uh, is it just going to land on a level board that sometimes the window is sitting all the way down on, even though it should be. Um, so there should be a space all the way around your window, top sides and bottom, those nails and screws that you may be using in the nailing fin to hold that window in place is what shores that to the wall.

[00:04:57] Eric Goranson: I can't tell you how many times I've [00:05:00] seen. And it's a lot of times I I'm in a home and I saw this more when I was designing kitchens, but it'd be like, oh, we just did windows seven or eight years ago. And somebody came and knocked on our door and we hired them and they did the windows. And all of a sudden you start looking around, you're like, oh, You got all listen, mold and drywall mess underneath your windows.

[00:05:39] Walt Tamala: Oh, absolutely. We see it all the time and it'll be hidden behind like your baseboard heat up. Uh, new England's notorious for oil fired baseboard heat. So, you know, it looks like it's dirty and dusty. And until you go to pull that baseboard off and your screwdriver, your hammer goes right through the wall and you're like, oh no, that was mold.

[00:06:04] Eric Goranson: that, and the other one I see too, are people not flashing Dax, and I want to talk about all these different things, but that's another one of those now that we're starting to get into people going, okay, I'm going to rebuild that deck because the old ones falling apart, or they want to put one on back out there.

[00:06:35] Walt Tamala: Yeah. I mean, I've seen a ton of decks that I've gone and inspected, uh, where, you know, I throw a level on it and you notice it as Backpage right away.

[00:07:02] Walt Tamala: So you have some kind of runoff with the water. Um, and then we never ever think, you know, we don't want to move the siding. We don't want to change this or whatever was behind it already is probably going to be sufficient. And all you gotta do is put new decking on or, or change my boards out. And no, I mean, you.

[00:07:27] Caroline Blazovsky: I had an on the deck was 19, maybe 86 and I pulled the Redwood deck. I had to pull it off my house cause I knew it was going to be all rotted behind it, no flashing.

[00:07:57] Caroline Blazovsky: So I try to explain it's something that goes over your [00:08:00] house and it's sort of this, you know, a, another layer, if you will. And usually a metal, I'm a, I'm a proponent of metal flashing. You don't have to use it. Um, just giving them their options so they understand.

[00:08:23] Walt Tamala: Like you walk into one store and, and you don't see the same products because they don't purchase the same, uh, distribution center, you know, products or whatever. Um, I think. I like to keep it simple. And I want to find some kind of self adhered product that I put on my house. She thing before I put my ledger board up before I do any kind of decking that way, I just know I have that first layer of defense.

[00:09:12] Walt Tamala: Uh, they all work really well. They are all pressure tapes, which means you have to apply 30 pounds of pressure in order for them to actually adhere. Otherwise you could get a cold night, you could have the sun hit it the right way and it overheated and an OPO right back off the building. Um, and I've seen so many failures because someone just didn't take the time, uh, to roll or push and apply the right pressure on, on those products.

[00:09:39] Caroline Blazovsky: and I'm correct. Right. You can use a metal, right? Like, so like behind ours they use a aluminum flat. Behind it, where they actually use the metal, correct?

[00:10:00] Walt Tamala: Pressure treated that still has, uh, the chemicals in it that will eat away at aluminum. Um, you know, only because you know what not everybody's buying brand new stuff. They might be, Hey, my buddy is getting rid of his deck or tearing it down. So I'm going to take that product because then I don't have to buy it.

[00:10:29] Eric Goranson: and I also like to have that layer behind it, of like with my deck when I did it, I put in, I used the nine inch, um, DuPont, cause I have. And I did that behind that.

[00:10:55] Eric Goranson: So now anytime you penetrate that, there's some kind of. [00:11:00]

[00:11:14] Walt Tamala: Uh, make sure you got a kick plate or a step, you know, to your doorway, uh, depending on driving rains or snow in our areas and in Jersey and mass, you know, you want to be able to be able to clear snow and not have it back right up into your, into your doors. And. Uh, but then I do take a metal drip cap and I put it over the top of that ledger board and nail it over the top of these tapes and, uh, um, uh, products because UVB rays can deteriorate them.

[00:11:57] Walt Tamala: Yeah.

[00:12:18] Eric Goranson: Went down around and went over the top of the ledger board is one piece. So then if any water got through there, it kicked around over the top of the ledger board. And then what I did is I used that flashing that way. And then I used the metal flashing over the top of it to make sure that it was protecting that.

[00:12:57] Eric Goranson: So I didn't want to recite the entire side of my house [00:13:00] with tweet T one 11, but then I had to put another piece of flashing on top of that

[00:13:07] Eric Goranson: So it was a battle.

[00:13:18] Walt Tamala: So well done, buddy.

[00:13:37] Eric Goranson: He raps all his top surfaces on his deck framing. Yup. So he puts tape, he deck tapes, everything. So there is no water getting into the top of his framing on any of that. And I tell you what, that's, how you build a, you know, you think about it. You could put a 50 or 60 year composite deck on top of that with a warranty.

[00:14:06] Walt Tamala: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, so we're only what maybe 10 minutes into this conversation. We've already talked about tapes that need to go around windows tapes that need to go behind deck boards and on walls.

[00:14:26] Caroline Blazovsky: That's what I was going to say is that so many of my homeowners, I, when I go into a house and obviously I look for mold and things like that, I'm an environmental consultant.

[00:14:48] Caroline Blazovsky: I mean, is there certain questions that you would recommend the homeowner say, ask an installer to see if they're, you know, kind of trick them and know.

[00:15:07] Caroline Blazovsky: Okay. Come on on we say Merv

[00:15:11] Walt Tamala: mixtape. We're bringing the concert to you, Caroline.

[00:15:26] Walt Tamala: you know, one is understanding what the weather resistant barriers there to. Uh, there's so many different types of wraps that are out there. And in, in all honesty, you know, most of them have been engineered. So, uh, they're not necessarily crap wraps, but we do find some out there that, you know, just have such a perm rating or where water can move, not just from the outside of the house to the inside, but the inside to the outside.

[00:16:11] Walt Tamala: It allows that moisture to flow through it, but not come back. So now all that moisture has gone to the outside of this house, wrap that's on your house and is able to drain down in dry out to the outside where it belongs. Um, so one is what do you, have you ever felt paper because it's an old house, you know, it's hard paper.

[00:16:52] Caroline Blazovsky: that.

[00:17:09] Caroline Blazovsky: So it's always a trick. So you don't have to drill a hole in the side of the house to like, figure out what's going on. Just take off one of these outlets and take the.

[00:17:22] Eric Goranson: Yeah. I'll tell you what I saw in a commercial building, a weather resistant barrier failure.

[00:17:50] Eric Goranson: So it got hot. Cause they were get the sun six months later, it was running out as a liquid, underneath [00:18:00] the whole thing and they had to come in and it was million dollar fixed to go in there and carefully remove it, put something in that was going to be heat resistant. And to put it back up again. So you gotta be a little careful with what you're doing and using the right materials because sometimes metals and things like that.

[00:18:28] Walt Tamala: always. No bye by all means is not. And we see it all the time on the commercial work. Normally an architect or an engineer has picked up and saw that, or they specked a product based off of the conditions, but it gets through the, the, the gaps, you know, it's definitely something that happens.

[00:19:22] Walt Tamala: And. Plan accordingly. Uh, but yeah. Um, when it comes to metal, you don't want anything that is a bitumen base, uh, which is like a tar base, uh, on the backside of that. Otherwise you're dead in the water, you're going to be making a mess. Uh, and then something's gonna be able to leak from above because everything's stripped him and come out the bottom.

[00:20:06] Eric Goranson: It was done early

[00:20:29] Walt Tamala: So like, have you ever seen Cedar on a house that cups? It's all, it's all cup because that's where it's drying out too. So the reality is all these control leaders need to be protected as. Um, and unfortunately Cedar does not allow that. That's why we're always using like a three H Ceder breather. Uh, Ben makes one, uh, re-invent by DuPont, uh, they make one, but again, you need to have the right airspace so that everything can dry properly.

[00:21:02] Eric Goranson: Let's describe that Cedar breather for a second. So people can get an idea with that. Probably the best way. It's almost like a filter medium in a way. You know what I mean? How it's cause it's designed to let water and air move behind it,

[00:21:14] Walt Tamala: Yes, that's exactly right. So, um, you know, you've, you've seen God, I don't want to say like, um, uh, rolled Ridge vent, Eric, for us, you know, we we've seen that product. If you cut that into and put it into a larger role, like a three-foot roll, you know, again, the key component is it's usually a minimum of three eights.

[00:21:41] Caroline Blazovsky: So explain to me for the people who are not so savvy. So you've got your plywood on your exterior of your house. And let's say like, my house is built in 1967. So you've got your plywood, you've got your felt rap and then your Cedar shake or sign, whatever kind of siding you have in my house, we have Cedar shake.

[00:22:02] Walt Tamala: Yeah. So it would go between the felt layer and the Cedar shake itself. Okay. And that way you've protected the layer of felt that's protecting the sheeting on the house.

[00:22:31] Walt Tamala: Well, so because it's a felt paper now you're a tar based a petroleum based product. So it takes the temperatures a whole lot better. Uh, and therefore, you know, you've seen it when you open up a wall or whatever, when you go to pull it apart or pull it off the wall, it breaks into a, a million little pieces.

[00:23:12] Eric Goranson: such, but the only bad part, what that is is it didn't breathe because the tarpaper had no.

[00:23:35] Walt Tamala: either.

[00:23:57] Caroline Blazovsky: All right. So are you using that over?

[00:24:05] Walt Tamala: Yeah, I usually use it over a home wrap or a drain wrap. I use drain wrap most often, uh, up here in mass. Um, just because I'm putting a lot of exterior insulation on my houses and that allows me a drainage plane behind that.

[00:24:26] Eric Goranson: And so that's a great way to go now with windows. We haven't really talked too much about. You know, so many people out there go, I'm going to replace that bathroom window, or I'm going to replace the bedroom window, or maybe I'm taking out that patio window.

[00:25:00] Eric Goranson: Using some silicone caulking and corn and a day.

[00:25:21] Walt Tamala: Uh, to going about it. Um, one thing Eric, that I'd like to talk about, you know, as the next step in a window is, let's say you cut out your opening. Um, and then you put a home wrap over that wall, right? So a lot of people can envision we're standing on the inside of a house and we have two windows and a sliding door.

[00:25:56] Walt Tamala: And then you're ready to start putting your window in. Um, and one of the [00:26:00] things that does is that allows any moisture, uh, to travel from behind that house, wrap that into your window assembly and then behind your drywall. Um, so the best thing I can tell anybody out there is just cut the whole square or rectangle out so that the home wraps only on the exterior of the house.

[00:26:46] Walt Tamala: So when water hits their pitches, the right. Um, but then I take a product. Uh, I use DuPont's flex wrap. Uh, I know there's a bunch of different products out there, but, uh, I love flex wrap. Um, I've been using it for the last 20 years, [00:27:00] um, and it's a beautiful based product and I cut it, uh, one foot wider than the opening of my window.

[00:27:35] Walt Tamala: And then when I go to push my window in, have a break or tear that. Um, yep. And then you feel that other piece of release paper off and you just gently fold that flex wrap down and out over the top of your WRB on the outside of the house. And what that's created is the sill pan and it's allowed, uh, uh, uh, no fasteners, 100% butyl based product to seal the [00:28:00] sill six inches of each side.

[00:28:25] Walt Tamala: There's PVC, sill pans out there that you could use. Um, I find having a roll of flashing tape on my truck of flex wrap is just easier. Uh, and I can make it work on any project anywhere, um, and it doesn't have to be to size, you know, I can make it the size of it. Yeah, you

[00:28:47] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And then one of the things that I see a lot, especially here in my neck of the woods in Portland, Oregon, where we get a lot of rain and we have a fair amount of contemporary homes, or even newer homes that just like on Gable ends and stuff just [00:29:00] don't have any overhangs. You know, we have a lot of 1840 homes around here that have like a, you know, a nine, 12 steep pitched roof.

[00:29:34] Eric Goranson: The, the flashing and caulking and any of that stuff up there.

[00:29:52] Walt Tamala: And it's all at the head flashing because they just forget. You've got to cut back that weather resistant barrier and lifted. [00:30:00] Because in order to flash that window, so water doesn't come down inside of it. You have to put tape, you know, after your, I always put a beat of silicone on all three sides of my windows, both sides.

[00:30:32] Walt Tamala: But then that top nailing flange, you should take a piece of flashing tape, a four inch flashing tape, and you should seal the flange to the sheet. Just like we were talking earlier, earlier, Caroline, about the ledger board. We want to make sure that that adhesive sticks directly to the wall sheeting and not a, not a weather resistant barrier.

[00:30:59] Eric Goranson: At this point, your [00:31:00] weather resistant barrier is typically held up or out because you're working underneath

[00:31:11] Walt Tamala: So I'm not fighting with it while I'm working with a piece of, uh, of the flashing tape. Um, and then after I'm done, I cut about a half inch to an inch off of the weather resistant barriers or drops down over the flashing tape I just installed. And then I take another piece of tape and just take. Uh, right to it so that I know that it's not going to move or flap around on me.

[00:31:42] Eric Goranson: number one area. That's a foolproof way at that point, because you've, you've now stopped all of the water intrusion points and including driving rain where it just doesn't have any place to go.

[00:31:54] Walt Tamala: Okay, Eric, we, we always, you know, we always talk about the watershed process, right. And, [00:32:00] and both of, you know, like what that means. I don't know if a lot of viewers or listeners do. Um, but the reality is watersheds. You know, it comes from up and sheds down. So all of our processes start from the bottom with our tapes and work our way up and our always overlapping so that if water hit it, it would shut on top of the next layer.

[00:32:41] Eric Goranson: Just like

[00:32:45] Caroline Blazovsky: We were talking, going back to talking about overhangs and it's so funny because I've been looking for our house that I want to sort of upgrade to. And I'm so particular about overhangs. And so I see all the construction, like the eighties and nineties, you know, in the Northeast where they [00:33:00] just did flush, everything was flashed with no overhang.

[00:33:16] Caroline Blazovsky: I would like to see more overhangs when people build in general, but curious to see what you say.

[00:33:37] Walt Tamala: I, I know that we will have plenty of building scientists want to argue the point of our thermal layers, but that we will have for another can of worms. I know we have ways around it, but the reality is I think overhangs are probably one of our best defenses. Um, now the overhang itself, depending on the size of it protects only [00:34:00] so much of the elevation of that wall.

[00:34:16] Caroline Blazovsky: so in my house I have two levels of overhang. So I have an overhang on the top and then the second level comes out and it's an overhang on the bottom.

[00:34:33] Eric Goranson: So my house is exactly the opposite.

[00:34:36] Caroline Blazovsky: need to help Eric. He needs over eggs in his climate. Can you imagine not having overhangs? Like it's like holy no,

[00:34:43] Eric Goranson: Yeah. I have, I don't. I have enough for attic ventilation for about, uh, you know, uh, a one inch inch and a half strip for attic, ventilation of that. And then it goes right to. Right to the board, right. To the gutter. And I've got gutters all around it, but, uh, you know, we're on [00:35:00] all the downhill slopes, but I literally have zero overhang on this house.

[00:35:24] Eric Goranson: You know, tar paper behind it and, um, not much. Right. Because even though they painted it, uh, there was just not a lot to it. Cause it breath well enough that when things got wet, it got dry.

[00:35:41] Eric Goranson: we just had Emily on here as well, by the way.

[00:35:45] Caroline Blazovsky: was Emily mantra and the architect. So we worked. What type of house do you live in? And I find it very funny that all of the people that are in this industry, they tend to live in these sixties and seventies houses. And she lived in a seventies house as well. Like, [00:36:00] I feel like this was the greatest time period for building it wasn't too much where we had all the environmental hazards of lead.

[00:36:17] Walt Tamala: So the joy of living in new England is, uh, we can Peck on houses that are centuries old, um, right.

[00:37:01] Walt Tamala: Um, so the reality is we just had a huge session on 1920 homes and some of the best construction timber wise, timber framing wise came out of the 1920s. Uh, and they had some amazing packages. Um, you're right though, sixties and seventies had some of the best overall performing houses. Um, You know, with central fireplaces, uh, for heat sources, um, different claddings I will say that again, we ran into issues with overhangs, um, as far as moisture, but these houses breathe so well that any moisture in had a way to disperse weather into the house and then dry out or outside of the house.

[00:37:54] Caroline Blazovsky: It's interesting just to see like how, I mean, I still look at older houses when I'm looking for [00:38:00] bones and looking for, and as much as I'm in this industry and I want to like new construction, I don't like it. So I'm not embarrassed to say it.

[00:38:26] Walt Tamala: S. So what is it about the new stuff that you don't

[00:38:29] Caroline Blazovsky: Um, I find with the glues and residence that the tight building envelope presents problems with the moisture control, right? We're talked about this in and out that we need. And what happens when we tighten this building envelope, the moisture gets trapped inside.

[00:39:00] Caroline Blazovsky: So that's my concern. Also a lot of the MDF products and the OSB doesn't hold up. Well, when it takes on moisture, it starts to Deland. It can delay laminate can start to break down, especially in basement. Substructures it doesn't hold up as well. And then starts to stink. We get this odor, like a lot of my clients will complain.

[00:39:31] Caroline Blazovsky: So

[00:40:05] Walt Tamala: Um, we, we also have to take into consideration how long it takes to educate the homeowner. That's gonna be buying that, how to use it, because we can never anticipate how each person uses their house differently. If you're the type of person that has your windows open in the middle of winter, cause you like it.

[00:40:27] Caroline Blazovsky: will appreciate this too. Um, so I worked on the home of very famous NFL owner. I can't say who it is, but I did his home and, um, they, he loves to go outside. Okay. So he wanted to be able to go inside, outside, have the windows open.

[00:41:01] Caroline Blazovsky: So that, and I explained to him, I'm like, you don't understand the way your house is and how tight it is. And all the spray foam you used, you can't open your windows on a humid day. And he's like, no, like you don't tell a billionaire. He can't open his windows. So the HVAC company was like telling me, well, Caroline, you have to tell them.

[00:41:36] Caroline Blazovsky: And like you guys build it. And then as an environmental person, I get called in to like deal with the problem and I'm like, Hmm,

[00:41:47] Eric Goranson: Yeah. It's like here though, too. It's the same kind of thing. We, we have to be careful here with ERBs and stuff because in July, August or in wildfire season, that air outside is so horrible.

[00:42:30] Walt Tamala: Yeah. That, that every climate zone, all those components have to be taken into consideration because again, What, what is the result? If you start pumping that into your house and someone Mrs. Smith, who's 80 years old, doesn't realize that's happening.

[00:42:56] Walt Tamala: Yeah.

[00:43:16] Eric Goranson: It's inside. We'd better keep the air that's inside, inside, unless we have a way to filter it or clean it. Right. Fresh here is not the option. Yeah, that's my soap box.

[00:43:42] Caroline Blazovsky: They don't understand the other side of it and how much goes into it and how much we don't know and how much we're learning. And we're every day it's a process. It's, there's no right answer to any of this. It's just trial and error til we get something.

[00:44:15] Walt Tamala: And you know, with this, you know, the data that says, you know, we live in a house for seven years. And then we're, we're turning in Bernie and handing it off to somebody else. You, you don't have anybody to call to say like, Hey, how did this work and why is this happening? And you're recreating the wheel with every new homeowner based off of their lifestyle and how they live in that house.

[00:44:38] Caroline Blazovsky: really, really hard. So true.

[00:44:54] Walt Tamala: you better believe that buddy,

[00:45:08] Walt Tamala: Oh, that's awesome.

[00:45:17] Eric Goranson: It's still standing there. So it's kind of cool to go check it out. Did you

[00:45:23] Eric Goranson: now I got to come up with some time, but yeah, that's one thing I'm going to reach out to, but I took some selfies out in front of it. I'm sure the people inside were going, who's this nut job up front Dick and selfies in front of my house.

[00:45:34] Walt Tamala: literally had a friend of mine. Tell me that's a similar story the other day where they're like, you know what? Um, my aunt used to have this house. It was our family hood house. Uh, we all grew up there. She kept it. Um, so I literally just decided to drive by. Uh, even though she's been dead and gone for like 30 years.

[00:46:04] Eric Goranson: My little brother had that. He lives in a 1920s kind of farmhouse in Eastern Washington.

[00:46:29] Eric Goranson: But the lady that grew up in that house, she was the daughter spinner younger years there, they were driving by and he was out front and they pulled up and, and it was the, you know, the, the grandkids were driving and said, can she come in? She'd like to see what the house looked like. So then he got a bunch of pictures of family picture cards.

[00:47:13] Eric Goranson: Uh, kind of a white concrete mix and the outside looks like chiseled, granite, but it's actually concrete. And you sat there and built your house out of these concrete blocks. Wow. Crazy stuff.

[00:47:35] Walt Tamala: Blew my mind, Eric, growing up as a Patriots

[00:47:42] Eric Goranson: It

[00:47:47] Eric Goranson: Hey, I was respectful during your Superbowl parade waltz. I will say when we were standing there watching that. So that was cool to watch.

[00:48:01] Eric Goranson: I love Boston though. If there was a Julian, I were just talking about this the other day and we're like, man, if there's another city that we could afford to lose. Boston would be one of them. Cause it's just a beautiful.

[00:48:20] Walt Tamala: Like you said, it's just crazy roadways and everything else. So driving is not the funnest, but the reality is the atmosphere and the people. They're just wonderful. It's a great, great city. I started

[00:48:41] Eric Goranson: Bad stuff out of the house and the, and the good stuff in, as far as, uh, flashings and weatherproofing. I know we got to go deeper into this in another episode, but, uh, for kind of the one-on-one, is there anything else that we should be hitting on? I

[00:49:05] Walt Tamala: Um, make sure that weather resistant barrier is installed properly. Um, you were talking about the TA that when the wind comes in and blows it, uh, at night, you know, make sure that you're using some cap fasteners and then you're taping all your scenes. Um, and then just make sure that, uh, as you go through your systematic about the install of all the components you're putting in there and make sure that they work together, make sure they're completely.

[00:49:58] Walt Tamala: These. You know, [00:50:00] we see houses with windows that are a hundred years old, um, as long as it's done, right. And we take care of them, they should last that long. Now I have a

[00:50:13] Caroline Blazovsky: Do you have somewhere

[00:50:39] Walt Tamala: Um, only to find out that even in the builder world, installer error, uh, is the biggest callback. So yeah, they, they may create some really good videos and installs. . The information highway here, we there's plenty of resources out there around.

[00:51:15] Walt Tamala: Oh, Angel's N VMY actually bourbon, but yeah, I'm sipping on Angel's envy later today.

[00:51:24] Eric Goranson: I've been on a, WhistlePig run for a couple of months now, so I know we, we ran that place out in, uh, In Orlando, the Hyatt Regency had to send out a ship for another one.

[00:51:43] Eric Goranson: Absolutely. We'll do that. We'll do that. All right. Well, thanks for coming on today and brother, we really appreciate

[00:51:53] Eric Goranson: .All right. I'm Eric G

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