Shownotes
Season five of the podcast marks an exciting new chapter as the hosts dive deep into the Enneagram, exploring its nuances through the lens of three primary schools of thought: the Riso Hudson School, the Narrative Enneagram, and the Awareness to Action approach. This season aims to clarify the often-confusing landscape of Enneagram teachings, offering listeners a resource that distinguishes between various interpretations and encourages critical thinking. The hosts, including Creek, Lindsey, and Abram, share personal insights and updates about their lives, emphasizing the importance of curiosity and openness in understanding the complexities of human behavior. Listeners can expect longer, biweekly episodes filled with engaging conversations and opportunities for interaction. With a focus on creating a clear and accessible framework, this season promises to enrich both newcomers and seasoned enthusiasts alike in their Enneagram journey.
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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: Serious Work for Unserious Humans
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Help Fathoms, By Supporting Us Here: Fathoms Membership Community
Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks
Production/Editing: Liminal Podcasts
- Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram
- Follow Abram: @integratedenneagram
- Follow Creek: @_creekmore
- Follow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
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Transcripts
Welcome back to season five.
Speaker A:That took a lot out of me, guys.
Speaker A:I don't think I can finish this.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Everybody.
Speaker A:It's been a while.
Speaker A:It's been a while.
Speaker A:We've been hard at work filming.
Lindsay:No, yeah, we should.
Lindsay:Recording, actually.
Speaker A:We have been filming.
Speaker A:We will have some video content this season.
Speaker A:Hopefully maybe.
Speaker A:Gosh, it's been quite the journey of.
Speaker A:We, as.
Speaker A:As you all may have already listened to our episode with Drew.
Speaker A:Drew is very sadly no longer with us.
Speaker A:But we, we, we on the podcast.
Speaker B:He's not on the podcast anymore.
Speaker B:He's still quite alive and living well in India.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Depends on when you're listening to this.
Speaker A:I mean, he may not be with us anymore, but, you know, you're not.
Lindsay:In control of that ultimately.
Speaker A:But yeah, well.
Speaker A:Or are we?
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Go in some directions.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:So, yeah, we have been recording a bunch.
Speaker A:This has been our most.
Speaker A:Just our biggest production yet for season five.
Speaker A:We're really excited to share this with you.
Speaker A:So a couple things to kind of get some things out of the way.
Speaker A:Some housekeeping.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So we are typically, you all know us as like releasing weekly, but we're going to start doing bi weekly for a couple reasons.
Speaker A:One, these episodes will be longer.
Speaker A:We want to give you plenty of time to get through it, to process it, to interact with us, ask us questions, all of those sort of things.
Speaker A:And we'll announce a little bit later, but we have some bonus things and some other ways that you're going to be able to engage with us and learn more, interact with the people that we've been talking to, all those sort of things.
Speaker A:So more on that later.
Speaker A:So we will be releasing biweekly still on Thursdays, so we'll still be able to join you on your morning, morning walk on Thursdays, I guess, because all of our listeners walk on Thursdays.
Speaker A:So, Lindsay Abram, tell me a little bit about what's been going on.
Speaker A:Let's start with Lindsay.
Lindsay:Yes, please start with me, please.
Speaker A:This is so excited.
Speaker A:Okay, Lindsay, what's going on in your life?
Lindsay:So much because I don't know how to say no to things.
Speaker A:All right.
Lindsay:I'm working on it, though.
Lindsay:I'm working on it.
Lindsay:No, I just, I have a lot of really great things going on right now.
Lindsay:I'm excited about my life and, you know, it's just good.
Lindsay:It's good.
Speaker A:Can you give us three specifics?
Speaker A:Maybe?
Lindsay:So I am about halfway through a two year long program in spiritual direction.
Lindsay:And that's really kind of opening me up in some surprising ways that I just kind of wasn't really prepared for it.
Lindsay:But it's been a really, really wonderful surprise, and I.
Speaker A:Have you found the direction of spirituality?
Lindsay:I am.
Lindsay:I am the direction.
Speaker A:I am the directions.
Speaker A:Here's the directions to spirituality.
Lindsay:I have them.
Lindsay:And if you sign up for the Fathoms Patreon, I will give them.
Speaker A:It's just a one word, one word document, baby.
Speaker A:B, just be.
Speaker A:Ooh, ooh.
Speaker A:No, we're not making that, Lindsay.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:What's something else, something exciting that you are looking forward to in.
Speaker A:I mean.
Speaker A:Yeah, in the winter months.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Lindsay:Yeah.
Lindsay:My goal this winter is to try winter kayaking for the first time.
Lindsay:So I'm doing my research.
Speaker A:Did you buy a wetsuit?
Lindsay:I.
Lindsay:Well, I don't know if I want a wetsuit.
Lindsay:I may want a dry suit, so I'm trying to decide what I want.
Lindsay:I'm scoping out my locations.
Lindsay:I happen to know that my Christmas present is a kayak.
Lindsay:So very exciting.
Speaker A:That's a hard one to hide.
Lindsay:It's a hard one.
Lindsay:Yeah.
Speaker A:Hard one to wrap, too.
Lindsay:I'm excited about that.
Speaker B:Can I ask what a drysuit is, though, real fast?
Lindsay:So, like, a wetsuit is like, you can go in the water with it, but a dry suit is meant to keep you dry.
Lindsay:So, like, you're.
Speaker B:But you can go in the water with it.
Lindsay:I don't think you can go.
Lindsay:I don't think you can go in the water with a dry suit.
Lindsay:I think it's like if you're staying in the kayak, you wear the dry suit.
Speaker B:But isn't that just.
Lindsay:Am I wrong about that?
Speaker B:Isn't that just clothes in general that you hope they don't get wet?
Lindsay:I told you, I'm doing the research.
Lindsay:That's why I'm home.
Lindsay:And I'm trying to understand everything.
Lindsay:So I'm open to being wrong about this, but you are provoking my pride right now a little bit.
Speaker A:I'm sorry, but here's.
Speaker A:Can I.
Lindsay:Hold on.
Lindsay:I'm going to make a note to myself to learn how.
Lindsay:What to say about this.
Lindsay:Yes.
Lindsay:Okay.
Speaker B:This will be our first question next episode.
Lindsay:Next episode.
Lindsay:See if I figured it out.
Speaker B:Tell us about dry clothing.
Lindsay:Tell us about.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm going to GPT this real quick to just, you know, I will tell you what I think.
Speaker A:What my understanding is, is wetsuit.
Lindsay:I don't care.
Lindsay:Just tell me what GPT says.
Speaker A:Okay.
Lindsay:I'm kidding.
Lindsay:I'm kidding.
Lindsay:What do you think?
Lindsay:Let's see if you're right.
Lindsay:Let's see if you're right.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'll say.
Speaker A:So what I think is a wetsuit allows water in and uses your body heat to warm the water up in your suit.
Speaker A:The dry suit actually is there to keep water out.
Speaker B:I think you're on to it.
Lindsay:That's literally what I said.
Speaker B:Let's rewind the tape.
Speaker A:Maybe that's what you meant.
Speaker A:That's not what she said.
Lindsay:Like, wet suit is if you want to get wet.
Lindsay:Dry suit is if you want to stay dry.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:Okay, all right.
Lindsay:It's the same thing.
Lindsay:Okay.
Speaker A:What's jippity say, Chad?
Speaker A:Gippity says dry suit keeps you dry.
Speaker A:Wetsuit keeps you warm but wet.
Lindsay:That's what I effing said, man.
Speaker A:Yeah, I can now see that that's what you meant.
Speaker B:I get it.
Speaker B:I just think.
Speaker B:Yeah, language is heard differently from different minds.
Lindsay:Anyway.
Lindsay:Okay.
Lindsay:I am excited about learning more about that.
Speaker A:How about dries and wetsuits?
Speaker A:Amazing.
Lindsay:You know what I'm really thinking about, though?
Speaker A:Is it just pants.
Lindsay:Pants are for your legs.
Lindsay:Yes.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Okay.
Lindsay:But I'm really scared about.
Lindsay:About is that I'm gonna, like, unalive myself with winter kayaking.
Lindsay:I'm nervous about not doing enough research and then getting in a really scary situation.
Lindsay:And also, I would really love to go somewhere where I could kayak and, like, whales could potentially come up to me.
Lindsay:But I'm also really terrified of that snow.
Lindsay:So I have to, like.
Lindsay:My heart is racing now.
Lindsay:Okay.
Lindsay:Let's move on to the next person.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Abram, catch us up.
Speaker B:Oh, boy.
Speaker B:Man.
Speaker B:I mean, since we, like, had a.
Speaker B:We were releasing episodes regularly, you know, I've became a professional sports player.
Speaker B:And, you know, a lot of different life has happened because it's been years.
Speaker B:Right.
Lindsay:Define your terms, please.
Lindsay:Sports.
Speaker A:Sports.
Speaker A:What are sports?
Speaker B:No, okay.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:No, seriously, though.
Speaker B:I'm just saying it's been a while, so a lot of life's happened.
Speaker B:I don't know where to go exactly, but I'll say I still have four beautiful little kids.
Speaker B:I still have a brave, brilliant wife.
Speaker B:Like, all these things are potentially going to go at some point out.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I'm clarifying with skill.
Speaker B:No, some newer things are I'm trying to begin the process of getting a bachelor's degree.
Speaker B:I don't have that in my history.
Speaker B:I'm on par to read 70 books this year.
Speaker B:Again, I don't know.
Speaker B:I'm loving the amount of coaching that I'M doing right now with some really great people open to more.
Speaker B:Looking to maybe do a triathlon next year.
Speaker A:Sports.
Speaker B:I tried growing a beard in October, and I decided against it after a month of that.
Speaker B:That was my first try in my life.
Speaker B:I've been wearing.
Speaker A:We did talk about that in the Drew episode.
Speaker B:Did we?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Beard adjacent.
Lindsay:The beard adjacent.
Lindsay:Butterfly, remember?
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:Still trying to figure out what's going on on top of my head.
Speaker B:So I've been wearing hats for months and months.
Lindsay:Can we get a quick glimpse?
Lindsay:Can you take your hat off and show us?
Speaker B:I mean, it's.
Speaker B:It's quite matted, so it's not going to look.
Speaker A:Wow, you look like your twin right now.
Speaker B:Yeah, I know.
Speaker B:When I.
Speaker B:I do want to do.
Lindsay:The whole calls tonight.
Lindsay:We'll be in the.
Speaker A:Oh, man.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:That's a good update.
Lindsay:I don't know.
Speaker A:That's a good update.
Lindsay:Oh, I forgot to say, for me, I'm on par to read 71 books this year.
Speaker B:Is that right?
Speaker B:Congratulations.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Wait, have you finished them, or is it just like I've started?
Speaker B:Is that the amount of books you have open?
Lindsay:That's halfway through 71 books.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Aren't we all love, love being accurate with our descriptions.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:At least, not including the recent bonus episodes.
Speaker A:But that was.
Speaker A:And y'all are particularly loving the Ego Essence conversation with Mario Sekora and Russ Hudson.
Speaker A:It is consistently outperforming all the other episodes.
Speaker A:So we may have to keep talking about that concept over time.
Speaker A:I thought we solved it, but yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So for me, lots of hiking and traveling, and I am.
Speaker A:I'm releasing two singles in the next.
Speaker A:In the year.
Speaker A:Next.
Speaker A:Next few months.
Speaker B:This is music.
Speaker B:Is this correct?
Speaker A:Yes, yes.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker B:You don't have two single people trapped in your home?
Speaker A:No, I'm released single hostages.
Speaker A:I've become a serial killer trying to get a podcast made after me, guys.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Just, you know, we're trying to be clear here.
Speaker B:So.
Lindsay:Yeah, they didn't join our Patreon, so.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:This is what happens when Drew's not on.
Speaker A:We just get dark.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:So really excited.
Speaker A:I feel like I.
Speaker A:Wonderful co writer Christian Maclean in Nashville and my producer Phil in Chicago is incredible.
Speaker A:And I got some other people that have been helping not listen to this.
Speaker A:Not only meet my expectations, but except, no, no, no.
Lindsay:Impossible.
Lindsay:They've done the impossible.
Speaker A:That's what I.
Lindsay:They're immortal.
Lindsay:They are the path of Spiritual direction.
Speaker A:They are the direction of spirituality.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:So I'm really, really excited about them.
Speaker A:And I'm sure we can.
Speaker A:We can talk about them as they come out, but working on an album and doing some stuff.
Speaker A:So I played a couple shows.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like I said, hikes and travels and lots of.
Speaker A:Lots of fun things.
Speaker A:So that's my life.
Speaker A:So moving on.
Speaker A:Per usual, in this introduction episode, we kind of recap where we've been and where we're going and just kind of talk about what you can expect about this season and kind of how to hold it.
Speaker A:So, yes, Abram, I'm just ready.
Speaker B:I'm ready.
Speaker A:Your face is ready.
Lindsay:Ready face.
Speaker B:Here's the ready face.
Speaker A:Ready.
Speaker A:All right, here we go.
Lindsay:Beard adjacent.
Lindsay:Ready face.
Speaker A:Beard adjacent.
Speaker A:Ready face.
Speaker A:So recap.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So we got.
Speaker A:Season one was on Ego.
Speaker A:In essence.
Speaker A:We didn't know what we were doing.
Speaker A:We were just trying to start somewhere, so we decided to start really deep.
Speaker A:Then second season was kind of like the depth and the width of the Enneagram space, all the different teachers and approaches and people from overseas, all those sort of things.
Speaker A:Third season was the importance of story, how to hold story, how to tell better stories, how to be honest about our stories.
Speaker A:Last season, as you may remember, all about identity.
Speaker A:And we didn't plan this, but we kind of did a lot of pre work.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:You guys can hop in here as well.
Speaker A:But it feels like all the previous seasons were leading up to this season to properly talk about the actual Enneagram.
Speaker A:The joke is sometimes we talk about the Enneagram.
Speaker A:We were Enneagram adjacent.
Speaker A:And this season we're actually wanting to talk about the Enneagram.
Speaker B:Probably the most we have.
Speaker A:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:In our normal ecumenical way of doing things.
Lindsay:What do you mean by that?
Speaker A:Well, ecumenical, you might say, is.
Speaker A:As I'm scrolling, I was going to.
Speaker B:Say your recall of the seasons was pretty great.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's because I wrote them down.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, yeah.
Speaker A:Ecumenical means bringing together different groups or perspectives, often to promote unity or understanding.
Speaker A:So we know something like this term is kind of more used in the sort of theological, religious space.
Speaker A:But I think from the get go, we were trying to create a space where all the schools, all the schools of thought could be represented well in balance.
Speaker A:And we trust the listener to parse between what works, what doesn't, you know, and what makes sense, what doesn't.
Speaker A:So we're taking that to a whole nother level.
Speaker A:So, Abram, let's be a little bit more specific.
Speaker A:What are we doing for this season?
Speaker A:What's the official.
Speaker A:We tried to come up with a cute little name, but it's not working.
Speaker A:So we're just going to talk about what we're doing, and you guys can give us suggestions as to a cute little name for the theme of this season.
Speaker B:I like that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, similar to what you said, I think it is in keeping with what we've been trying to inadvertently initially do in the beginning of the whole start of this Fathoms thing being bringing together not just one school of thought around the Enneagram.
Speaker B:And as you've seen and as you've heard, I mean, you know, not just one school of thought around any topic, really.
Speaker B:We've kind of.
Speaker B:We kind of pride ourselves, I think, in how can we have more of an expansive approach to something, because there's a lot of different ways to view something and.
Speaker B:And you kind of understand it something more clearly when you've got lots of different ways to understand the same thing.
Speaker B:And so what we've done with this season.
Speaker A:Six.
Speaker B:Six.
Speaker B:Six, five, five.
Speaker B:This fifth season here is we've brought together three of what we at Fathoms just think of as the kind of the primary schools of thought that have impacted us personally the most in the Enneagram world.
Speaker B:And those are.
Speaker B:That's not a great drum.
Speaker B:That's a bad drum.
Speaker B:That's a rundown car.
Speaker B:The three primary schools of thought that have impacted us the most, which, you know, are the Riso Hudson School of Thought, which is, you know, previously the actual school that was once a location in New York is called the Enneagram Institute.
Speaker B:Also the narrative Enneagram, the narrative tradition, and the awareness to action approach.
Speaker B:And so what we did is we located two primary representatives from each of those schools of thought around the Enneagram, and we have interviewed each of them and will be dispersing their wonderful thoughts around the Enneagram throughout all of the season.
Speaker A:Lindsay, I feel like in some ways this theme stemmed from your idea.
Lindsay:It stemmed from my need to understand the mish mosh of information that was, like, swirling around in my brain.
Lindsay:Um.
Lindsay:Cause I think that when you come into the Enneagram world and you start learning, like you pick up a book and before you know all the players and you've got the lay of the land, you don't know if you're getting classic Enneagram teaching or if you're getting someone's interpretation of classic Enneagram teaching or if you're getting that, like, four generations you know, it's like a game of telephone.
Lindsay:It's like a big game of telephone in here sometimes.
Lindsay:And so then the message that's coming to you through whatever podcast or book you're reading or resource you're learning from, it's like, oh, where is this coming from?
Lindsay:Who is this coming from?
Lindsay:How do I trace it back?
Lindsay:And I think that, like, one thing that's really helped me clarify what I think in general in my life is understanding where the thoughts that I'm thinking come from.
Lindsay:Right.
Lindsay:So understanding, like philosophy, for example.
Lindsay:Like, these thoughts that I'm thinking, I can trace them back to something, and I think that's really important.
Lindsay:The more people that come into the Enneagram community, it's great.
Lindsay:The water's fine.
Lindsay:Join us.
Lindsay:And also, I think in order to keep thinking clearly, in order to keep being wise, we have to understand where these thoughts are coming from and find the ones that maybe have gotten.
Lindsay:The telephone message has gotten so distorted along the way that it's like, that's not even close to what it started out as.
Lindsay:You know what I'm saying?
Lindsay:And it's no longer helpful.
Lindsay:It's no longer communicating anything.
Lindsay:And so I think I've said several times, we are creating, with season five, we're creating the resource that I wish I had had, like, nine years ago when I started doing this work.
Lindsay:And so I learned a lot.
Lindsay:I've clarified a lot of things for myself.
Lindsay:I've enjoyed the conversations.
Lindsay:And I really think what we've done is we've created sort of a space where things just feel clear and you can compare and you can contrast and you can think for yourself and make your own decisions and hear it from as close to the source as possible.
Lindsay:And then anything you encounter after this, you're like, oh, this is stemming from the narrative Enneagram, or this stems from the defense mechanisms of the Rizzo Hudson model.
Lindsay:Did I get that right?
Speaker A:Yes.
Lindsay:Is that right?
Speaker A:I think so.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Lindsay:See, and still there's so many parts.
Lindsay:There's so many things.
Lindsay:It just helps me personally to be able to say, to attribute ideas to specific schools of thought into specific fingers.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's really important to understand the history of ideas so we can trace those and see where they split off, what's useful, what's not.
Speaker A:And when you've only studied in one school and stopped learning and stopped evolving, then.
Speaker A:Then things can become distorted because they can become isolated without context.
Speaker A:And I think that's the other word, at least, that I'm holding If I'm holding ecumenical in one hand, where just kind of bringing together all these different parts and thoughts, some of which I agree with, some of which I don't.
Speaker A:Some of which I don't have an opinion on.
Speaker A:In the other hand, I'm holding evolution of like, okay, yes, these are what we are working with and where are we going next?
Speaker A:How do I want to take this information and use the wisdom of those that have come before to make life less suffering?
Speaker A:Like, you know, help to help people to evolve my ways of thinking and feeling and behaving.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And no person or even like piece of material or.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Content can stand alone as an island.
Speaker B:Because this is how we see, like, oh, we've grown.
Speaker B:Like things like neuroscience have come out and shown us.
Speaker B:Oh, how we previously thought about something.
Speaker B:Isn't it accurate or like even just specific to the Enneagram?
Speaker B:Oh, the wings aren't.
Speaker B:Or the.
Speaker B:Or, sorry, the lines aren't black and white.
Speaker B:You know, integration, disintegration.
Speaker B:But if that information.
Speaker B:Yeah, if that information is understood, you know, in.
Speaker B:As an island, it.
Speaker B:It won't be able to move, you know, and.
Speaker B:And so seeing it as a part of the whole.
Speaker B:Understanding it in context with the rest of the way the Enneagram is being communed is how I think we find what is most accurate.
Speaker B:And how can I come to a better conclusions.
Speaker B:Not even conclusions, but better ways to hold the Enneagram.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And resources that I think are so valuable to hold.
Speaker B:Well, because they're.
Speaker B:They're.
Speaker B:You are dealing with human beings when you're.
Speaker B:When you're understanding the Enneagram and you get to turn people into concepts or not, depending on how well you hold the Enneagram.
Speaker B:And so, you know, it can be used poorly.
Speaker B:It can be used really badly, which it has largely probably because of this.
Speaker B:People have tried to make sense of the Enneagram in vacuums as islands, and you can't do that.
Lindsay:Yeah.
Speaker A:And this goes back to what we didn't do intentionally with the previous seasons of kind of like, this is all the pre work that needs to be done in order for you to hold the Enneagram well is to understand the power of story, to understand how fluid and important but also misleading identities can be.
Speaker A:What is ego essence?
Speaker A:What is the nature of self?
Speaker A:Like, where do we stop and where do we begin?
Speaker A:All these sort of things and the varieties of different ways that people can see the same thing, like whether a dry suit is to get wet or not.
Speaker A:You know.
Lindsay:So helpful.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I might Be saying the same thing just in a different way again.
Speaker A:But been reading through a little history of Philosophy by.
Speaker A:I forget the author, but the name is kind of funny to say.
Lindsay:Is it Luke Ferry or a different one?
Speaker A:Nigel Warburton.
Speaker A:Feels like an old English general or something.
Lindsay:Nigel.
Speaker A:Nigel.
Speaker A:Cheerio.
Speaker A:Literary history and philosophy.
Lindsay:Surprise me with your voices.
Speaker B:It sounds like the elephant from Mowgli.
Speaker B:The Mowgli story.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker A:That's true.
Lindsay:Two, three.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:Are you that voice?
Speaker A:I'm actually 84.
Lindsay:Yes, we assumed so.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Anyways, a little History of Philosophy.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:It's just been fascinating to attract some of the greatest thinkers, like insanely, insanely smart people who were like, question their fundamental beliefs that then they found something new, people hated it, then they adopted it.
Speaker A:And now we're like, well, that's stupid.
Speaker A:Because of this, this, this and this and the evolution.
Speaker A:And like, I forget who it was, but made a monumental discovery of how to think about something that shifted how we view life in today's world.
Speaker A:And then his next theory was like, if you can imagine a unicorn exists, then it does.
Speaker A:And it's like, bro, you should have stopped with your freshman album.
Speaker B:Well, wait, I could go along with that.
Lindsay:That's maybe a bonus episode for our Patreon.
Lindsay:If you would like to sign up for our Patreon, we'll get into the show notes.
Lindsay:You can hear us talk about unicorns.
Speaker A:Good, good plug, good plug.
Speaker A:Yeah, we're really excited about that.
Speaker A:We'll talk about that a little bit more later.
Speaker A:But anyway, so I view this as kind of that for the Enneagram of.
Speaker A:No, this isn't all of the philosophers.
Speaker A:This is not all the schools of thought of the Enneagram.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:This isn't every single aspect of a type or a subtype, but it is the basics that you can then start exploring from here.
Speaker A:So I'm really excited to see.
Speaker A:To see this get out there because I do think it.
Speaker A:Like you were saying, Lindsay, it's something that it doesn't exist.
Speaker A:It needs to exist.
Speaker A:And I like a historical document on some level, I hope, of where we've been with Enneagram.
Speaker A:Not exhaustive by any stretch, but it is at least a starting point for people.
Speaker A:And we're going to try to supply as many resources in the show notes for you guys as possible.
Speaker A:And that's going to be Abram's job.
Lindsay:So, yeah, I think to your point too, like, and both of you have kind of said this like the Reason that philosophy has evolved over time.
Lindsay:The reason that there are challenge ideas that challenge previous ideas is because as a society, we're changing.
Lindsay:We have new technology, we have new ways of engaging and interacting with each other.
Lindsay:We have new ways of being that are opening us up to new challenges and new questions that we've never encountered before.
Lindsay:And so then previously held thoughts and philosophies are put under pressure.
Lindsay:And it has to be that way in the work that we're doing if we're going to care for people.
Lindsay:Well, because it doesn't help people to be offering them a tool that is not willing to flex and change as our.
Lindsay:As we collectively change as the world is changing.
Lindsay:And you know, Abram, you brought up like we have, we have new science now.
Lindsay:We literally have new information that can help us understand the Enneagram even better.
Lindsay:So we want to keep changing and keep contemplating and keep evolving.
Lindsay:And I will also say, when it comes to season five and all those conversations that we had, I didn't agree with everything that I heard.
Lindsay:I didn't agree with everything.
Lindsay:And that's one thing I love about this too, is like Creek, like you said at the beginning, listener, we trust you.
Lindsay:We trust you.
Lindsay:We think you're smart.
Lindsay:And this is a platform that is always going to be a space where people can say things that we don't agree with.
Lindsay:Like, we're going to do our best to guard against harmful, damaging messages.
Lindsay:We agree on that.
Lindsay:But we are not afraid of disagreeing and we're not afraid of people having a different perspective than us.
Lindsay:And so I liked that.
Lindsay:I like that about season five.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Lindsay:Every season, really, it's always been that way.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So in that there's going to be a lot of, there's going to be a lot of content for you guys to sift through to learn to hear different perspectives.
Speaker A:We hope to make that as clear and as easily accessible to you guys as possible.
Speaker A:So we're going to be trying to make sure that our terms are clear, that we're going to define our terms, that we're going to mostly reframe from opinions or strong opinions at least just to let the schools speak for themselves.
Speaker A:But we will, yeah, we'll.
Speaker A:We'll go along with the journey with you in learning about all these sort of things.
Speaker A:So we please, please, please reach out through Instagram or our email will be in the show notes as well, our collective email and send questions, send thoughts.
Speaker A:All of those things are welcomed and.
Speaker B:That kind of snail mail.
Speaker A:We don't have a physical address for you to send things to.
Speaker A:But if you want to, we can figure something out anyways.
Speaker A:But another way, if you want to kind of get more of our opinions unfiltered, you want more access to more of the content that we are recording behind the scenes.
Speaker A:You can actually sign up for our Patreon.
Speaker A:Lindsay, do you want to tell us a little bit about what we got going on over there and why we set that up?
Lindsay:I would love to.
Lindsay:Thank you so much.
Lindsay:We just have a couple of ways for interacting with you guys that we're excited about.
Lindsay:So we have a Facebook page.
Lindsay:You can reach us there.
Lindsay:We also have a second Facebook group for paying members of our community, which will just have slightly different contact con, slightly different content.
Lindsay:Thank you.
Lindsay:Slightly different content.
Lindsay:And we'll be engaging a little more on that channel.
Lindsay:So that's where we're hoping to kind of get into some deeper conversations and get to know some of you better.
Speaker A:So, yeah, our third tier on Patreon is a private Marco Polo channel that you guys can interact with us, ask us questions, get in touch with us.
Lindsay:And yeah, see our faces.
Speaker A:See our faces.
Speaker A:We can interact with you.
Speaker A:And that's just kind of to help make this more sustainable.
Speaker A:This is a lot of work, a lot of work for us, and we want to keep making this for you all.
Speaker A:And just a little bit of.
Speaker A:Little bit of help.
Speaker A:Really hard to ask for, but a little bit of help would be really great.
Speaker A:And if you can't, you know, do something financial like send us a message or leave a review or share the podcast, that would be really, really, really wonderful if you could get us.
Speaker B:We get by with a little help from our friends.
Lindsay:Yeah, there's that.
Lindsay:And then there's also, like, we want to connect with you, and it's hard to do that when we're just.
Lindsay:It's recording and then sending it into the void.
Lindsay:When we talk with people in person, they have thoughts about our episodes, and we want to talk about our episodes because we believe in this content and we are passionate about it.
Lindsay:And so it's fun to connect with you, get to know.
Lindsay:And you're brilliant.
Lindsay:You're all brilliant.
Lindsay:And so it's really, really fun to hear from you and get to know you.
Speaker A:And finally, we are actually in the process of making merch.
Speaker A:So I don't know if Abram's aware of this or not, but.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:But maybe we should talk about how you don't know who the Beatles are.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:That's what I was still thinking about.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's another.
Speaker A:That's bonus content you can find on our private podcast feed through Patreon.
Speaker A:So, yes, we got merch.
Speaker A:We don't know what it's going to look like yet at the time of this recording, but I'm.
Speaker A:We're, you know, we always do things way overboard.
Speaker A:So I'm sure it'll be great quality and look fun.
Lindsay:So it's stuff that we would want to wear.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's very few things for me.
Lindsay:Awesome.
Speaker A:I rarely wear graphics on my clothing, so you're safe, y'all.
Speaker A:So, last thing, final words from each one of you.
Speaker A:What do you hope that our listeners will take away from this?
Speaker A:How will or how they approach this season?
Lindsay:H O P E O.
Lindsay:I hope song is in my head today.
Speaker A:Is that your answer?
Lindsay:No.
Lindsay:Okay.
Lindsay:I just hope that people are impressed with it.
Speaker A:I hope people like me.
Lindsay:I hope no one's mad at us by the end.
Lindsay:No, seriously, I hope, like I said, this is the resource that I wanted and needed like a decade ago.
Lindsay:So I feel like the years get longer every time I see that.
Lindsay:This is what I needed 30 years.
Speaker A:Ago when I started studying, you know, two centuries ago.
Lindsay:I hope that people find it helpful.
Lindsay:I know maybe that's just cliche, but I really hope it's helpful.
Lindsay:Not just for people who are new to the Enneagram, but people who've been doing this a long time and who are just like.
Lindsay:I've been in my own model for so long, I kind of forgot that there are other really brilliant ways of talking about this.
Lindsay:I hope it's challenging.
Lindsay:Whether you've been in it for a long time or you're new to it.
Lindsay:I hope it's clarifying.
Lindsay:I hope it just kind of brings everybody together.
Speaker B:I hope that.
Speaker B:I think I would like that the experience for people creates a more well rounded approach to this thing that we.
Speaker B:We all have some, you know, love or hate relationship with at this point or indifference to.
Speaker B:I don't know where you're at with the Enneagram these days.
Speaker B:It's been quite popular for a little bit of time now.
Speaker B:But yeah, I just think.
Speaker B:I hope that it gets held better and understood more for its original intention.
Speaker B:But also just how today, who we are today and who we're wanting to become can use this, the tool, you know, better.
Speaker B:And, you know, I just think, why not bring on some of the leading teachers and see how all of this lands for.
Speaker B:For the listeners, we don't want to tell you which way to go or one way to go.
Speaker B:These are our favorites and this is who we've been impacted by the most.
Speaker B:And hope that trust that whatever hits you is going to and that you really just walk away with more expanded.
Speaker B:I think as a person because of hearing the Enneagram more fully, but also even, I don't know, on a different level, hearing the way we approach things, not just the Enneagram, but life in general.
Speaker A:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, similarly, just hope that people would walk away from this feeling expanded.
Speaker A:Feeling like given.
Speaker A:Given tools that they need to continue their.
Speaker A:Their education in Enneagram and otherwise we hope to kind of give some more.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I hope people can approach this with more curiosity and openness.
Speaker A:Critical thinking.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:What makes sense and what doesn't?
Speaker A:What is necessary if it.
Speaker A:If it doesn't work, why doesn't it work?
Speaker A:And maybe some of it works, but not all of it.
Speaker A:So how do we like, just be brutal, be brutal with your ideas and the ideas that you are hearing and that I'm really excited about.
Speaker A:So with that, Seth is literally just walking out of the room with his computer.
Speaker A:Thank you all.
Speaker A:We gotta go.
Speaker A:We love you.
Speaker A:Thanks for listening to Fathoms and Enneagram podcast.
Speaker A:If this episode affected you in some way, we'd love it if you would share share it with a friend or family member.
Speaker A:Don't forget to check out the show notes for ways to connect with us and continue your serious work as an unserious human.
Speaker B:Oh, gosh.
Speaker B:We're recording.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Lindsay:So this is a bonus episode to announce the opening of our boutique clothing line.
Speaker A:Birds, bows and branches.
Speaker B:Handcrafted.
Speaker A:Get hyped at least for like.
Speaker A:Give me like 30 seconds of energy for this beginning and then we can be dead again.
Speaker A:Dear Lord.
Lindsay:Collective effervance and fervent.
Speaker A:While we're young.
Speaker B:Lindsay Vance.
