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Babylon System
Episode 523rd March 2022 • Flickers • Matthew Linder
00:00:00 00:54:43

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March 23, 2022

Babylon System

Summary: "The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill" was an album very clearly held together by a theme, love. And then when Lauryn performed on that stage in MTV studios with a brand new set of songs with just her and an acoustic guitar, there seemed to be a lack of cohesion within the songs themselves as well as the performance as a whole. Initially derided by critics and fans, "MTV Unplugged No. 2.0" went on to influence artists such as Kanye, Lecrae, and many others in hip hop. But what might not be apparent from a single or a dozen listens of the performance is that the album's songs are narratively connected. This album is her story but it is also the story of all humanity, where Lauryn takes us from Genesis to Revelation and through the words and life of Jesus.

Timestamps:

  • The Media, Critic, and Fan Response to "MTV Unplugged No. 2.0" - 00:00
  • Bob Marley's "Babylon System" As The Inspiration for "Unplugged" - 4:50
  • Femi Olutade Dissects "Mr. Intentional" - 8:16
  • "Adam Lives in Theory" as the Story of All Humanity - 13:00
  • "Freedom Time" as the Central Theme of "Unplugged - 20:06
  • Femi talk through various "Unplugged" songs ("Just Like Water," "I Gotta Find Peace of Mind," "The Mystery of Iniquity," and "I Get Out") as the narrative of the Bible - 34:29
  • "The Conquering Lion" as Jesus and the one who destroys the "Babylon System" - 35:59
  • Krystal and Matt React to the Narrative that Femi found within "Unplugged" - 45:44

Hosts: Lauryn Hill researcher, Krystal Roberts, and Hip Hop scholar, Matt Linder.

Contributors: Julius Tunstall, Raven Jones Stanbrough, and Femi Olutade.

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Website: flickerspodcast.com

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Take the next step and text this episode to a friend who is a Lauryn Hill fan, a hip hop fan, or a music fan. They can subscribe on their favorite podcast app here: https://www.flickerspodcast.com/listen.

Logo design by @papercutprayers

Theme music by Julius Tunstall.

Additional music from Yons, fndguitar, Beats by Hype and Nabil Sioty

Episode Transcript: https://share.descript.com/view/SG6S7QjVBr7

Transcripts

Lauryn Hill:

And yo, I mean, life, God, the universe blemished this endeavor

Lauryn Hill:

from that music.

Lauryn Hill:

And I have to let you know it was, it was huge.

Lauryn Hill:

The spirits was huge.

Lauryn Hill:

It was, it was so huge.

Lauryn Hill:

And I had to step back.

Lauryn Hill:

I realized that this album, it has the face outside of me.

Femi Olutade:

You know what I mean?

Femi Olutade:

Beyond

Lauryn Hill:

me, it's the people's music.

Lauryn Hill:

And then

Julius Tunstall:

the MTV unplugged came out.

Julius Tunstall:

And it just got

Julius Tunstall:

shat on,

Julius Tunstall:

what are your thoughts

Femi Olutade:

about the audiences?

Femi Olutade:

We actually smell a lot of the

Lauryn Hill:

audience here

Femi Olutade:

expected,

Lauryn Hill:

MIS misrepresentation, a

Femi Olutade:

lot of stuff from your old album and they were even shouting.

Femi Olutade:

What do you have to say to those people

Lauryn Hill:

who expected Lauryn?

Lauryn Hill:

Is

Krystal Roberts:

there anything to

Lauryn Hill:

say?

Lauryn Hill:

Um, I don't really have much to say, you know what I mean?

Lauryn Hill:

I just know.

Lauryn Hill:

That I'm a, I'm a person, you know what I mean?

Lauryn Hill:

And I don't know when I signed my life away to the

Lauryn Hill:

expectations of me, I'm an artist.

Lauryn Hill:

I have expression.

Lauryn Hill:

You know what I mean?

Lauryn Hill:

I do that.

Lauryn Hill:

Let me not even say an artist that I'm expressing myself.

Lauryn Hill:

I'm like sharing, I'm sharing, living life, living, life

Lauryn Hill:

experiences, living content.

Julius Tunstall:

I was reading some reviews from 2002 when

Julius Tunstall:

it came out and people were.

Julius Tunstall:

Imagine being in a coffee shop and some woman comes up on stage and she looks like

Julius Tunstall:

she's forgot that she had a show that day.

Julius Tunstall:

And she just starts preaching at you for hours.

Lauryn Hill:

That's really your lyrics, like

Lauryn Hill:

for example, and it's just like little traffic.

Lauryn Hill:

The name of the track is you're taking a punish yourself.

Lauryn Hill:

That's the entire saw every single song.

Lauryn Hill:

Every lyric is MI MI MI MI MI MI MI my my me.

Lauryn Hill:

So if you're offended, you have to ask yourself why, when a woman is talking

Lauryn Hill:

about herself, why are you offended?

Lauryn Hill:

Unless that may be relevant for you as well.

Lauryn Hill:

It's me.

Lauryn Hill:

My eye Lauryn lost her depressed, repressed, confused, repressed

Lauryn Hill:

me, Lauryn, but people are ready to count me cause I'm scared.

Lauryn Hill:

You know, could it be that you had me as an idol?

Lauryn Hill:

You couldn't beat it.

Lauryn Hill:

I was a fictional person.

Lauryn Hill:

Couldn't beat it.

Lauryn Hill:

I was worshiped above measure.

Lauryn Hill:

Couldn't beat him.

Lauryn Hill:

I had God's place in your heart.

Raven Jones Stanbrough:

:

She gave us a lot in that.

Raven Jones Stanbrough:

:

Stuff not tightened up the poor, the people

Raven Jones Stanbrough:

:

Asking them for or soliciting to them.

Raven Jones Stanbrough:

:

A, I don't have a title for somebody solves not let me know what you think.

Raven Jones Stanbrough:

:

And I'll consider that a lot of these songs too.

Lauryn Hill:

Some of them, you know, they don't even really have titles yet.

Lauryn Hill:

You know?

Lauryn Hill:

So if you have any suggestions, you don't raise your head.

Raven Jones Stanbrough:

:

Me are in stock, do that.

Raven Jones Stanbrough:

:

We're so stuck on what we know to be true.

Raven Jones Stanbrough:

:

We don't invite the larger masses or to mainstream or larger audiences to speak

Raven Jones Stanbrough:

:

to us in terms of our Golder abilities.

Lauryn Hill:

They say, they say such flavor things.

Lauryn Hill:

I realize that people don't, they never really knew that.

Lauryn Hill:

When I was on top, they said, boy, that girl she's got it going on.

Lauryn Hill:

And people had no idea how repressed and upset and miserable and tormented

Lauryn Hill:

and how I never got to do what I really wanted because I was too busy playing

Lauryn Hill:

it to the expectations of everybody, all the millions of fans, my mother,

Lauryn Hill:

my father, my husband, my children.

Lauryn Hill:

There was never a moment for me to be happy to express real joy.

Lauryn Hill:

So when you see me sit my ass down with a guitar and cry, I'm saying, thank God.

Krystal Roberts:

I'm Krystal Roberts.

Matt Linder:

I'm Matt Linder.

Krystal Roberts:

This is flickers.

Lauryn Hill:

You want to defend the curves human condition laws.

Lauryn Hill:

Corrupted Babylon's benefits.

Krystal Roberts:

Babylon system.

Lauryn Hill:

What I love about the Bible of the parts, where, you know,

Lauryn Hill:

the Pharisees, they really want to say certain things, but they don't really

Lauryn Hill:

want to reveal their motives to get men.

Lauryn Hill:

They really don't want to reveal how much they.

Lauryn Hill:

Yeah,

Lauryn Hill:

they try to cover it.

Lauryn Hill:

And we know that God or Jesus is just the truth.

Lauryn Hill:

So what they really hated was the truth.

Krystal Roberts:

For Lauryn shoot this love, shoot this freedom.

Krystal Roberts:

Shoot.

Krystal Roberts:

This guy Babylon though robbed you

Lauryn Hill:

of all

Femi Olutade:

three

Matt Linder:

hemiola Totty, who was the co-writer for season five

Matt Linder:

of the dissect podcasts, which focused on the spirituality.

Matt Linder:

Um, Kendrick Lamar's Dan album.

Matt Linder:

He is going to show us how Lauryn Hill on her unplugged album took listeners on her.

Matt Linder:

And the journey of all humanity to break free

Matt Linder:

of Babylon,

Lauryn Hill:

to say system defined system.

Lauryn Hill:

You talking about yourself, I'm

Lauryn Hill:

talking about myself.

Lauryn Hill:

And of course, you know, the system of this world is just a

Lauryn Hill:

reflection of man's self image.

Femi Olutade:

Here's so a couple of big things here.

Femi Olutade:

You see this idea of like the system, which is a big theme.

Femi Olutade:

And I think essentially the main kind of conflict or the main kind

Femi Olutade:

of antagonist in the story is this.

Femi Olutade:

And good conduct to know is that lorem during the time

Femi Olutade:

period is west Rohan Marley.

Femi Olutade:

Who's a sign of Bob Marley.

Femi Olutade:

So it's very influenced by reggae, the Marley family and like Bob

Femi Olutade:

Marley himself and his music,

Femi Olutade:

because we always thought we can get, you know, we could get reality by just

Femi Olutade:

putting on the clothes and wearing the face and, you know, looking hard in the

Femi Olutade:

video or, you know, reality is like, I would always talk to my husband.

Femi Olutade:

I said, look, We look at Bob Marlon, we say, okay, let's just grow locks

Femi Olutade:

and wear the clothes and have the band.

Femi Olutade:

And we have no idea how many years of struggle and pain and

Femi Olutade:

suffering that made that content.

Femi Olutade:

You see what I'm saying?

Femi Olutade:

You can't, you can't get it from the outside in truth is from the inside

Femi Olutade:

out, you know, and the way we've been trying to heal and be healed

Femi Olutade:

is with these topical surfaces.

Femi Olutade:

Superficial temporary solution.

Femi Olutade:

And I'm telling you, true healing is, is, is from the inside out.

Femi Olutade:

You know, we've been told to protect our outer man while

Femi Olutade:

our inner man is dying.

Femi Olutade:

And there was really famous song from Bob Marley called Babylon.

Femi Olutade:

But it's actually referenced to the book of revelation and the whole

Femi Olutade:

history of Babylon and the Bible

Femi Olutade:

and it's saying all this stuff about like that, we refuse

Femi Olutade:

to be what you want us to be.

Femi Olutade:

You can educate us for no equal opportunity.

Femi Olutade:

It talks about this idea of like lies and tell the children that.

Femi Olutade:

So it's all things about these themes of lies and mystery

Femi Olutade:

attentional, validating lies.

Femi Olutade:

It's all kind of hinted at in this, this Babylon.

Femi Olutade:

And I think that references system is, I think largely

Femi Olutade:

inspired by this particular song.

Femi Olutade:

The first song is one in a track entitled.

Femi Olutade:

Mr.

Femi Olutade:

. And, uh, it starts with this very often quoted a proverb of the road

Femi Olutade:

to hell is paved with good intent.

Femi Olutade:

It's a really interesting thing about one it's raised spiritual from

Femi Olutade:

the very first line about this idea of kind of going to hell to this

Femi Olutade:

kind of fiery place of judgment.

Lauryn Hill:

See the roads paved with good intent cancer.

Femi Olutade:

And it was supposed to be about this idea that people are often

Femi Olutade:

think that they're doing the right thing.

Femi Olutade:

I think they're doing.

Femi Olutade:

But that is actually like predominantly how you get into this place of

Femi Olutade:

self-destructive pattern, where you set the fire of your own destruction.

Femi Olutade:

So this is about people making her feel like she's a victim that they're talking

Femi Olutade:

to her kind of somewhat condescending and patronizing her as, as you'll see in

Femi Olutade:

the second verse and like appealing her.

Femi Olutade:

Oh, we'd help you out.

Femi Olutade:

We've done all these things for you.

Femi Olutade:

And I think a lot of this is going to be in reference to a lot of what

Femi Olutade:

she kind of went through in terms of.

Femi Olutade:

Issues.

Femi Olutade:

And like the press feeling that she needed help and that

Femi Olutade:

things are really wrong Hawaii.

Femi Olutade:

And they were kind of coming and telling her that she's a victim and

Femi Olutade:

she's been through so much building

Krystal Roberts:

industry.

Krystal Roberts:

It's going to help you

Lauryn Hill:

get this message.

Lauryn Hill:

I'm not interested in it in the system helping me.

Lauryn Hill:

How do you think, how do you think that your messages get across long?

Lauryn Hill:

Because all of you are here with microphones in my face.

Krystal Roberts:

Are you denouncing your past

Lauryn Hill:

denouncing?

Lauryn Hill:

Um, I'm not going to say that I didn't learn things from my past.

Lauryn Hill:

I think every part of our lives, you know, experiential knowledge

Lauryn Hill:

was supposed to be gained.

Lauryn Hill:

So it was a part it had to happen, you know, it had to happen for me

Femi Olutade:

to be, and you'll see, throughout the album of this idea of

Femi Olutade:

victim hood, this idea of your hopeless victim as the first instance of it,

Femi Olutade:

she's really against being identified as.

Femi Olutade:

And I think the reason why that is, is because if she densified herself as a

Femi Olutade:

victim, she doesn't acknowledge the ways in which her own action has contributed

Femi Olutade:

to the situation she's currently in.

Femi Olutade:

And thus it prevents her from actually doing the things that

Femi Olutade:

would allow her to change and repent and to go in a better direction.

Femi Olutade:

I think that's part of, part of why she kind of highlights this like

Femi Olutade:

victim mentality that these people have actually helped to track her

Femi Olutade:

in, in verse two, he talks about like, please don't patronize me.

Femi Olutade:

Mr.

Femi Olutade:

. And so people don't want to submit, they exalt themselves and then they

Femi Olutade:

fall down to the ground and that's like, essentially everybody, every

Femi Olutade:

single character does this throughout, like most of the, of the old Testament.

Femi Olutade:

And then you get to the story of Jesus and Jesus does the opposite is that

Femi Olutade:

he's actually exalted he's at same God.

Femi Olutade:

He actually lowers himself and comes down into humanity story.

Femi Olutade:

He submits himself to God, to the point of death, and then God raises him up

Femi Olutade:

and resurrects him and lifts him up.

Femi Olutade:

And then he becomes king and then all people submit.

Femi Olutade:

And so it's this flipping of gravity of turning up the direction, you

Lauryn Hill:

know, but the thing about the bridges is they take a lot of abuse.

Lauryn Hill:

Sometimes Jesus obviously was the mediator between lost man and God's new covenant.

Lauryn Hill:

And in order to do so, you know, he had to absorb all of the damage, you

Lauryn Hill:

know, that had been sown and humanity up

Femi Olutade:

until his arrival.

Femi Olutade:

And so that ego and pride is going to be a big theme you'll see throughout

Femi Olutade:

at, and then the idea of like searching for things and supporting our parents.

Femi Olutade:

CareMore is like an illicit lover.

Femi Olutade:

This idea of lover that sexuality adultery is going to be a big thing,

Femi Olutade:

even starting in the next track.

Femi Olutade:

And I think this is the first time we really get this idea

Femi Olutade:

of the need for freedom.

Femi Olutade:

And so definitely one of the themes and make the central theme

Femi Olutade:

of the entire album is freedom.

Femi Olutade:

And this idea that she's been emotionally held hostage by the system and by these

Femi Olutade:

people and better with good intention that actually like paving the way for

Femi Olutade:

her to be stuck further into this.

Femi Olutade:

You see all that.

Femi Olutade:

And that the system gets associated with money, counting all the money

Femi Olutade:

exploitation, which made us to kind of money and to like the, the system and

Femi Olutade:

people that have good intentions, I'm actually leading to exploitation and

Femi Olutade:

using, and doing things in the name of love either because they feel like they,

Femi Olutade:

they saying they're doing out of their own love, or they're saying that, oh,

Femi Olutade:

because of however, they define that.

Femi Olutade:

That Lauryn should be able to do whatever she wants to do.

Femi Olutade:

Um, in a validating, these lies

Lauryn Hill:

stuck in a system

Lauryn Hill:

in the name of love.

Femi Olutade:

The next song is a song called Adam lithium theory from the start.

Femi Olutade:

She says that Adam, she's talking about all of humanity.

Femi Olutade:

And

Lauryn Hill:

when I refer to Adam, I'm really speaking about all of humanity, you

Lauryn Hill:

know, without exception of anybody, you

Femi Olutade:

know?

Femi Olutade:

So when Lauryn sayings, like what you see is about Adam, this is about humanity.

Femi Olutade:

That that is literally accurate.

Femi Olutade:

So you, the story of the Bible, because Adam literally means.

Femi Olutade:

And so I think this kind of gets into this idea of theory and philosophy

Femi Olutade:

and this kind of Western way.

Femi Olutade:

We tend to look at the world and it being this thing that

Femi Olutade:

is actually trapping people.

Femi Olutade:

I think that's part of why it's like the act of living in theory.

Femi Olutade:

It's not actually a real light.

Femi Olutade:

It's not a bodied world.

Femi Olutade:

I think this kind of leads to him being trapped, I think is

Femi Olutade:

part of, what's kind of going on.

Femi Olutade:

So again, outward manifestations, hypocrisy, actually living in

Femi Olutade:

darkness and thinking that once the light virtually real, a commercially

Femi Olutade:

appealed the lust of all the people where he lives, this goes onto to,

Femi Olutade:

like, we talked about promotional, commercialism, money being this thing

Femi Olutade:

that is actually kind of leading and kind of like guiding him and leading

Femi Olutade:

him away away and leading him towards.

Femi Olutade:

Which is the kind of the first place in the actual lyric.

Femi Olutade:

You see kind of the sexuality theme kind of comes with Adam

Lauryn Hill:

virtually real and commercial.

Lauryn Hill:

They appeal to the last of all the

Femi Olutade:

lust being desire, things that, I mean, that'd

Femi Olutade:

be sexual or like material, or like pleasure or money or food.

Femi Olutade:

It's all of those things.

Femi Olutade:

But normally in modern English, isn't the first sexuality, which

Femi Olutade:

is a lead up to like the next.

Femi Olutade:

So after Adam, you introduced to Eve who has you sign?

Femi Olutade:

Her name actually means the life.

Femi Olutade:

So it talks about Eva.

Femi Olutade:

So naive lightened by the pride and greed wanting to be intellectual.

Femi Olutade:

Drifting from the way she turned, she got turned down one day and

Femi Olutade:

now she thinks that she's bisexual.

Lauryn Hill:

He was so nice and green

Lauryn Hill:

drifting from the way down one day.

Lauryn Hill:

And now she thinks that she's bisexual.

Femi Olutade:

So there's a lot going on here.

Femi Olutade:

One, the, the very first thing, talking to me about the idea that he was, was naive.

Femi Olutade:

This goes into an ancient understanding of this story, of

Femi Olutade:

the story of Adam and Eve in the garden, which is that in the ancient

Femi Olutade:

book, in the Eastern understanding, Adam and Eve, aren't perfect.

Femi Olutade:

They're not perfect.

Femi Olutade:

They're not actually fully mature.

Femi Olutade:

They're not like they're not even mortal in and of themselves.

Femi Olutade:

They actually need God.

Femi Olutade:

And he'd actually eat the fruit of life, the tree of Jewish

Femi Olutade:

life to actually keep alive.

Femi Olutade:

So they're not perfect.

Femi Olutade:

They're not a mortal in and of themselves.

Femi Olutade:

They actually are in this kind of moral infancy.

Femi Olutade:

They're like children where they have not actually experienced a known

Femi Olutade:

a house to decide good from evil.

Femi Olutade:

They're actually just supposed to depend on God, who is their father

Femi Olutade:

to be able to know good from evil.

Femi Olutade:

So the story is really about where do you get your wisdom?

Femi Olutade:

Where do you get your knowledge from?

Femi Olutade:

So what she's saying, Ephraim is act as accurate portrayal, the ancient

Femi Olutade:

understanding of it, which is that she's in this moral emphasi that she's kind

Femi Olutade:

of in this naive state, which is a bad, but it can be exploited, which we talked

Femi Olutade:

about exploitation earlier with Mr.

Femi Olutade:

10.

Femi Olutade:

She says that she's blinded by the pride and greed.

Femi Olutade:

It actually said that out here directly she's blind and she

Femi Olutade:

can't see by the pride of Deek.

Femi Olutade:

And again, blinded again, is this idea of living in darkness of, again, that people

Femi Olutade:

turned off from darkness as like not.

Femi Olutade:

People turning away from the light and turning towards darkness.

Femi Olutade:

So you see that in her being blinded.

Lauryn Hill:

So nice.

Femi Olutade:

See the fact that she's she's blind, she doesn't

Femi Olutade:

recognize that he's blind.

Femi Olutade:

Cause you're gonna try to make decisions based on her own eyes, even

Femi Olutade:

though she's blind and living in.

Femi Olutade:

And it says, cause she's blinded by the pride and read again, greed, lust, wanting

Femi Olutade:

more things, wanting to be intellectual.

Femi Olutade:

So the thing she wants more than anything is actually to is this

Femi Olutade:

knowledge is wisdom to be understanding.

Femi Olutade:

And this is directly from the narrative from Genesis.

Femi Olutade:

Because what happens?

Femi Olutade:

The serpent comes and says to her, Hey, like, you know, you like, would

Femi Olutade:

you like, oh, I'm going to die.

Lauryn Hill:

say goodbye to this decay system.

Femi Olutade:

Say goodbye to this, the cane source social.

Femi Olutade:

And so this again goes back into social.

Femi Olutade:

I think that I always heard this as sexual system.

Femi Olutade:

I know executive sexual and social, but I think that's part of it too, is that

Femi Olutade:

it's just, again, the Babylon system that I mentioned, the Bob Marley again, is

Femi Olutade:

showing up this system that is that people that are, that with good intentions are

Femi Olutade:

coming and keeping people trapped in.

Femi Olutade:

And it's all revolved around sex, around commerce, around people being

Femi Olutade:

wise and philosopher their own.

Femi Olutade:

He wants to know how far we're going to go.

Femi Olutade:

If we love him, like he say, he will, that he will try us

Lauryn Hill:

and willing to go.

Lauryn Hill:

I would say with

Femi Olutade:

your triumphs, that gets into this idea of trying or testing, which

Femi Olutade:

is like a reference to like metal and how metal, whenever you try to get pure

Femi Olutade:

gold, it kind of comes with all these.

Femi Olutade:

Well, you have to do is use fire and you've melted down because things

Femi Olutade:

melt at different temperatures.

Femi Olutade:

The things that are impurities will melt in a rice, the

Femi Olutade:

service, and you skim it off.

Femi Olutade:

And then what you have left is pure gold.

Femi Olutade:

So being tried or being tested is, is this thing that happens in the story of

Femi Olutade:

Israel, of them going through suffering or them going through things so that

Femi Olutade:

they would remove the impurities, the wickedness, the things that, that come

Femi Olutade:

from them being part of the system, then eating from this kind of tree and from

Femi Olutade:

them adopting these kinds of ways of.

Femi Olutade:

That's supposed to be separated by God's kind of like trials and things

Femi Olutade:

of that they've got gone through and it might be painful, which is why she

Femi Olutade:

said don't slip into hopelessness.

Femi Olutade:

Once he satisfied his love.

Femi Olutade:

He's not going to deny us, which is this idea that God will provide them so that

Femi Olutade:

he can actually United with them so they can love them so that he could actually

Femi Olutade:

accept them and that they won't be denied.

Femi Olutade:

And when they do that, it gets to the last source we says.

Femi Olutade:

And then assuming that we have like, he's purified us and he's trying.

Femi Olutade:

And he's brought us back in, then he'll tell us what we're going to do.

Femi Olutade:

Now.

Femi Olutade:

We're going to NewCo now and what we're going to say now.

Femi Olutade:

So this goes from the questioning and trying to figure out themselves, like,

Femi Olutade:

where are we going to go at the end?

Femi Olutade:

He's going to be the one to tell us after all that we've been through, after our

Femi Olutade:

bachelors, he's going to be on the teller.

Femi Olutade:

I was like, what are we going to do now?

Femi Olutade:

And where are we going to go now?

Femi Olutade:

And what we're going to say now, and that's going to be us back into paradise.

Femi Olutade:

Um,

Lauryn Hill:

I, you know, I, I hope if anybody's getting anything

Lauryn Hill:

about what I'm talking to you right now, I'm talking about.

Lauryn Hill:

You know, I'm talking about, you know, Ascension from the natural world,

Lauryn Hill:

you know, not the natural world.

Lauryn Hill:

It's still here.

Lauryn Hill:

We still live here, but we're talking about higher things.

Lauryn Hill:

You know, I'm talking about, uh, you know, uh, the psychology of

Lauryn Hill:

selling the psychology of oppression.

Lauryn Hill:

I'm not just simply talking about sin and oppression.

Lauryn Hill:

You know what I mean?

Lauryn Hill:

I'm talking about what is behind all this stuff.

Lauryn Hill:

I'm talking about the root and the source of things.

Lauryn Hill:

That's what.

Lauryn Hill:

I was desperately looking for the source.

Lauryn Hill:

I went over here.

Lauryn Hill:

Where is it over here?

Lauryn Hill:

Is it over here?

Lauryn Hill:

You know, just searching for life purpose for understanding, you know, God

Femi Olutade:

so play with the PFP with freedom.

Femi Olutade:

This is one of the central jacket look at.

Femi Olutade:

Cause freedom is literally in a title, but it's actually entering

Femi Olutade:

that in there's this there's this paradox where you might become free

Femi Olutade:

by giving yourself up, which is.

Femi Olutade:

I think a lot.

Femi Olutade:

This is a title on it.

Femi Olutade:

I think in a Jesus' teachings.

Femi Olutade:

I think what it is is.

Femi Olutade:

It's tied to the idea, everyone, you know, they were guilty.

Femi Olutade:

You lied, everybody

Lauryn Hill:

knows that they're guilty.

Lauryn Hill:

Yeah.

Lauryn Hill:

Everybody knows that they,

Lauryn Hill:

yeah.

Femi Olutade:

So giving yourself up in this context is actually.

Femi Olutade:

Letting people know what you've done wrong.

Femi Olutade:

It's about confessions of wrongdoings of sins.

Femi Olutade:

And sin is just a biblical word for failure.

Femi Olutade:

So moral failures, they're actually like letting people know your moral

Femi Olutade:

failures and not hiding them, not being a hypocrite anymore and letting

Femi Olutade:

God know one's kind of failures.

Femi Olutade:

She says there's a war on the mind.

Femi Olutade:

And so I think what a lot of this gets into is a lot of the

Femi Olutade:

terminology that Paul uses.

Femi Olutade:

And particularly in like Ephesians six, we talks with idea of like that we

Femi Olutade:

don't wrestle against flesh and blood, but with powers and principalities, the

Femi Olutade:

powers of darkness, it's the Babylon system that they're like wrestling in.

Lauryn Hill:

It is freedom side.

Lauryn Hill:

Yeah.

Lauryn Hill:

There's a war in the mind over territory.

Lauryn Hill:

Who will dominate the opinions of schisms and isms, keeping

Lauryn Hill:

us the forms of religion.

Femi Olutade:

I think lesions six, there was another part in it and secondary

Femi Olutade:

the it's 10, which really beers it.

Femi Olutade:

And it gives another interesting details till this idea of spiritual

Femi Olutade:

warfare as often referred to, as the wrestle against the powers that have the

Femi Olutade:

spiritual powers and the demonic evil.

Femi Olutade:

In second Corinthians 10 verse three through six.

Femi Olutade:

What Paul say, Paul writes there is for though we walk in the flesh.

Femi Olutade:

So this is a life that is an animal like life one that's led by one's desires.

Femi Olutade:

One.

Femi Olutade:

If we walk in our flesh, our desires, we don't walk in them.

Femi Olutade:

We do not wage wage battle.

Femi Olutade:

According to the flesh for the weapons of our warfare are not flushed.

Femi Olutade:

They're not things that are physical material that are things of our

Femi Olutade:

desires, but they are divinely powerful for the destruction of fortress.

Femi Olutade:

And then he's like, okay, what are these for?

Femi Olutade:

What's he talking about?

Femi Olutade:

We destroy arguments and all arrogance or pride that has raised up itself

Femi Olutade:

up against the knowledge of God.

Femi Olutade:

And we are taking every thought captive and making it obedient to Christ.

Femi Olutade:

And we are ready to punish all disobedience.

Femi Olutade:

Whenever your obedience is.

Femi Olutade:

So a lot of, if you read closely what he talking about, this is what this is.

Femi Olutade:

Paul's kind of concept of spiritual, of spiritual warfare, this warfare

Femi Olutade:

between what is good and what is evil between what is from God?

Femi Olutade:

What is spiritually evil?

Femi Olutade:

These war against the demons against the spirit of demons is like things actually

Femi Olutade:

bring uncleanliness and destruction lives.

Femi Olutade:

So we say, what is it?

Femi Olutade:

What is their war for?

Femi Olutade:

Like, it's actually, how do you fight against the warfare against

Femi Olutade:

demons against spiritual evil?

Femi Olutade:

What you do is you destroy arguing.

Femi Olutade:

And you take thoughts, captive motives and thoughts.

Lauryn Hill:

Rotating bodies, confusion to sound negative imagery, holding us down.

Lauryn Hill:

Social delusion clearly constructed human condition, morals,

Lauryn Hill:

corrupted, trapped, and reaction.

Lauryn Hill:

Lawlessness war dissatisfaction from bowels to core devils technology

Lauryn Hill:

strategy for human mythologies, urban folklore sicker psychology, California.

Lauryn Hill:

Wicked theology, robbing the poor skiing.

Lauryn Hill:

Demonology mislead the pure Stricker strategically studying

Lauryn Hill:

war light shown in darkness.

Lauryn Hill:

Image exposed.

Lauryn Hill:

Few can see through the new emperor's clothes.

Lauryn Hill:

Lustful.

Lauryn Hill:

This hustle turns humans to hose.

Lauryn Hill:

When the blind leading the blind, just more troubling woes.

Lauryn Hill:

It's the mind that they chose.

Lauryn Hill:

It's designed to stay closed.

Lauryn Hill:

Standards of jokers caught just the logic, cyclical and cosmic from school yard.

Lauryn Hill:

Primitive man, in a civilized knowledge system collapsed and he

Lauryn Hill:

still won't acknowledge God as the savior studies behavior, trying to fix

Lauryn Hill:

the mixed mind that he gave you stiff neck scholars on prescription meds.

Lauryn Hill:

Wishing that problems was all in their heads.

Lauryn Hill:

Moral dilemma, prod at the root misguided from youth heart divided from truth

Lauryn Hill:

Egyptians and Grecian, spiritually dead empirically led by the gods in

Lauryn Hill:

their heads, motives and thoughts, industrial wealth, global economy in it.

Lauryn Hill:

Heart full of madness covered with current pleasure designed to take over your.

Lauryn Hill:

Furnished and godliness painted and good.

Lauryn Hill:

This tainted priesthoods got real saints misunderstood.

Lauryn Hill:

Why classes and government set up the veil and cultivate

Lauryn Hill:

miles for more mythical tales.

Lauryn Hill:

Typical Hollywood Follies.

Lauryn Hill:

Good girl.

Lauryn Hill:

While bison corruption, take over the world.

Lauryn Hill:

Motives and thoughts.

Lauryn Hill:

Check your motives and thoughts

Lauryn Hill:

blind with the wickedness deep in your heart.

Lauryn Hill:

Modern day.

Lauryn Hill:

Wickedness is all you've been.

Lauryn Hill:

Lie to your neighbor.

Lauryn Hill:

So you get ahead.

Lauryn Hill:

Modern-day trickery as all you've been fed motives and thoughts,

Lauryn Hill:

check your motives and thoughts.

Femi Olutade:

So it's all about the mind.

Femi Olutade:

It's all about thoughts.

Femi Olutade:

It's all about systems.

Femi Olutade:

It's all about how people talk.

Femi Olutade:

It's how people relate to each other.

Femi Olutade:

It's about how people disguise their attention.

Femi Olutade:

It's all about these thoughts and this knowledge and this wisdom that is

Femi Olutade:

actually made thoughts and information that people have used to like build up

Femi Olutade:

their logic about how they should do.

Femi Olutade:

And what are we going to do now?

Femi Olutade:

What are going to say now?

Femi Olutade:

Like how do you respond to what's going on in the world?

Femi Olutade:

And then you saying that the actually do spirits work, but you actually need to

Femi Olutade:

actually destroy those arguments and to like take those thoughts and make them

Femi Olutade:

obedient to Christ to the anointed king.

Femi Olutade:

It's a whole imagery of Jesus being this conquering king that is going to make like

Femi Olutade:

thoughts of his people actually obedience to Christ and not want not obedient to

Femi Olutade:

the Satan, to the EU, wants to the system that like serving what is like this, like

Femi Olutade:

this, the system, when he grants us the.

Lauryn Hill:

Of sharing his understanding and his perspective.

Lauryn Hill:

We then adapt the mind of Christ and we start looking at the world

Femi Olutade:

the same way later on.

Femi Olutade:

It talks about appalling calling religious some program on television.

Femi Olutade:

How, how can dominant dominant wisdom be recognized in the system?

Femi Olutade:

Again, the Babylon system it's search for wisdom and understanding,

Femi Olutade:

be recognized in a system of the

Femi Olutade:

The majority rules, intelligent falls, PhDs and illusion, masters of confusion,

Femi Olutade:

bachelors and past illusion spirits.

Femi Olutade:

Right?

Femi Olutade:

So

Lauryn Hill:

Colin religious, a program or television happens dominant.

Lauryn Hill:

Be recognized in the system of anti-Christ to majority rules, intelligent fools,

Lauryn Hill:

PhDs, and illusion, masters, a mass confusion, bachelors, the past,

Femi Olutade:

what he's talking about, this it's all about the search of wisdom.

Femi Olutade:

Are we going to, he's going to tell us, right?

Femi Olutade:

Like he's going to be wanting to teach us, forget our thing, you know, forget what

Femi Olutade:

you've learned in your PhDs and Nick, your masters in your master's degrees, in your

Femi Olutade:

bachelor's degrees, all those degrees.

Femi Olutade:

They're actually leading you away.

Femi Olutade:

They're teaching you this worldly earthly wisdom.

Femi Olutade:

That's not the wisdom of.

Femi Olutade:

That's not his wisdom.

Femi Olutade:

And you might think, oh, well, but look, it's like, there's a PhD.

Femi Olutade:

They're like really vaulted.

Femi Olutade:

They're really bad or society.

Femi Olutade:

And she's like, look, you live in the system of the anti-Christ

Femi Olutade:

and the Babylon system.

Femi Olutade:

And here, antichrist, this is referred a couple of times, John first,

Femi Olutade:

John two, it talks about children.

Femi Olutade:

This is the last hour.

Femi Olutade:

And this verse 18, as you've heard the antichrist, the one who is

Femi Olutade:

against the noise when the one, the spirit that are fighting as

Femi Olutade:

they, the annoyance when against.

Femi Olutade:

So what's she saying is that all of this, the system, these things that

Femi Olutade:

have been set up or actually caused people to fail and actually keeping

Femi Olutade:

one third of us in jail, she was in

Krystal Roberts:

jail because at

Femi Olutade:

Danbury because

Krystal Roberts:

attacks,

Lauryn Hill:

uh, patient and really that sad because she

Lauryn Hill:

didn't really handle her taxes.

Lauryn Hill:

So although she supposed to be responsible for the people that are handling it

Lauryn Hill:

in many ways, she thought that her business was being handled and it wasn't.

Lauryn Hill:

So Lauryn and I did time together.

Lauryn Hill:

We did 90 days together and, um, Dan Danbury, federal prison.

Lauryn Hill:

And that encounter changed my life.

Lauryn Hill:

So I was cool with the counselor who took her in and she assigned Lauryn to me.

Lauryn Hill:

So Lauryn didn't even deal with any of the prisoners for the whole time.

Lauryn Hill:

She was there.

Lauryn Hill:

I was the only person that she dealt with.

Lauryn Hill:

So for day in and day out for 90 days, and it might not seem like a long time,

Lauryn Hill:

but in prison when you spend every waking hour with someone, it's, it

Femi Olutade:

becomes a long time.

Femi Olutade:

This idea of.

Femi Olutade:

The system and these going on and that's, what's leading us to having all big prison

Femi Olutade:

actually actually in prison, actually eat behind bars in like physical prisons here.

Femi Olutade:

And there needs to be this kind of freedom, which is like Jesus

Lauryn Hill:

conferences, a Gail discussing doctrines and bail

Lauryn Hill:

causing people to fail, keeping the

Femi Olutade:

third.

Femi Olutade:

So there's kind of like theme that you kind of see there in terms of people being

Femi Olutade:

stuck in jail and being freed and this against the overall theme of freedom.

Femi Olutade:

Time, to be

Lauryn Hill:

honest with you, she's probably one of the most prolific.

Lauryn Hill:

Um, spiritual people that I've ever met in my whole entire life.

Lauryn Hill:

And so for me, I was in a weary state at the time.

Lauryn Hill:

I had already done five years when Lauryn came in.

Lauryn Hill:

So I had given up a lot of my hopes in my dreams.

Lauryn Hill:

So it was actually Lauryn coming into the prison, speaking life into me, telling me.

Lauryn Hill:

Telling me what I'm doing with y'all today that I would be

Lauryn Hill:

doing that and giving me hope.

Lauryn Hill:

So my whole movement that I stopped started behind bars is because of Lauryn,

Femi Olutade:

Nicole, him, once you start seeing is it's all about,

Femi Olutade:

remember all the way back to Mr.

Femi Olutade:

Intentional about promotional, this idea of commerce.

Femi Olutade:

The Babylon system is like, well, you start seeing is that it's this thing

Femi Olutade:

that is closely and tied to commerce to the market, to like its exploitation,

Femi Olutade:

to people, making money to people, trying to buy goods and try to satisfy

Femi Olutade:

their desires for wealth and desires for like comforts and pleasure.

Lauryn Hill:

There's some restoration.

Lauryn Hill:

Some accountability, you know, and I'm free to do what it is.

Lauryn Hill:

It makes me happy, you know?

Lauryn Hill:

And, and I don't have a thumb on my head, you know, purposely trying

Lauryn Hill:

to both oppressed, repressed and exploited, you know, my ideas

Lauryn Hill:

without necessarily allowing me the full range of my expression.

Lauryn Hill:

Some might say as the thumb of commercialism capitalism, you know,

Lauryn Hill:

there've been a lot of people's thumbs have, have been that thumb at one point.

Lauryn Hill:

That was a Fuji.

Lauryn Hill:

You know, another point, it was a record company from, you know, at other parts,

Lauryn Hill:

it was the people who were around me.

Lauryn Hill:

I mean, I'm sure you ever hear the old stories of the master-slave

Lauryn Hill:

paradigm where, you know, the slave says, um, you know, my slaves love me.

Lauryn Hill:

I got some great slaves, you know, it's kinda, to me the same type

Lauryn Hill:

of sick relationship that, or the sick dynamic that takes place.

Lauryn Hill:

Cause placing right.

Lauryn Hill:

I wasn't eight years old, but I was probably around 16, 17 when

Lauryn Hill:

I really started to make it start to make some choices around 17,

Lauryn Hill:

18, 19 people started availing themselves to me to do certain things.

Lauryn Hill:

And what happened was dependence with some, Hey, you need one of those.

Lauryn Hill:

You need one of those.

Lauryn Hill:

You need one of those.

Lauryn Hill:

You need one of those.

Lauryn Hill:

You need one of those and you need.

Lauryn Hill:

That's one of those, one of the, you know, and it's the way that people can control

Lauryn Hill:

and manipulate a young mind that has no idea what it really needs at that point.

Lauryn Hill:

But it's told you need one of those, oh my God, you need one of those.

Lauryn Hill:

You need one of those, you know, it's really the shame of the

Lauryn Hill:

world, but, um, it happens often.

Lauryn Hill:

And then you have these children who become the possessions of these sort

Lauryn Hill:

of corporate entity slash monsters without the emotional mature.

Lauryn Hill:

To really be the head that they are, you know, they are the brainchild, but

Lauryn Hill:

emotionally they're still young and people exploit that youth that happened.

Femi Olutade:

It's all about that mentality and it, and it's through that,

Femi Olutade:

that you get a question, you get slavery, you get wars, you get all these things.

Femi Olutade:

And Babylon is this place of where there's like wisdom, where there's

Femi Olutade:

philosophers, where you can go and get the things they want, where

Femi Olutade:

they can get their nice things.

Femi Olutade:

What she's doing.

Femi Olutade:

And she's comparing that to the modern day.

Femi Olutade:

What we see we live in is life comfort.

Femi Olutade:

We have the access to things, and we are often swept up in that my own cupboards

Femi Olutade:

of whatever that may be of that lead us to our own pride, lead us to our

Femi Olutade:

own pleasures and things like that.

Femi Olutade:

If this vision of what happens if like, oh, system like that falls apart.

Femi Olutade:

Yeah.

Lauryn Hill:

Essentially, essentially.

Lauryn Hill:

And when we ascend our own flesh perspective, You know, solutions

Lauryn Hill:

will be readily available to us.

Lauryn Hill:

And we'll start realizing that we are in our own way, that solution is available.

Lauryn Hill:

And that when you know that there are problems, problems that are persisting,

Lauryn Hill:

there are problems and perspective, problems, and worship problems and

Lauryn Hill:

obedience, you know, I mean, with all the wealth in the world, you know,

Lauryn Hill:

the fact that poverty exists, that someone is not operating in faith.

Lauryn Hill:

Someone has an actual fear, you know, some presentations.

Lauryn Hill:

And it's something that will attack and murder all of us.

Femi Olutade:

And then people are weeping because, oh no, we, we

Femi Olutade:

can't get all like the gold and the silver and the nice electrical meets

Femi Olutade:

that we had before or whatever that might be for us in our modern day.

Femi Olutade:

Would that be like shoes or clothing or whatever that might be for us.

Femi Olutade:

And that's what this kind of analogy is with the Babylon system.

Femi Olutade:

All this gold would have things at least idolatry to

Femi Olutade:

the worshipful wealth to money.

Femi Olutade:

Which is why often the Bible you'll see that like idolatry is often portrayed as.

Femi Olutade:

As betraying relationship to God.

Femi Olutade:

So we have the Israelites and it's also like the imagery and

Femi Olutade:

like terminology of adult who is often used her for it idolatry.

Femi Olutade:

And so here, you actually can see that all the way into Adam,

Femi Olutade:

as in theory and everything.

Femi Olutade:

That's also this parallelism to like idolatry and serving other gods and

Femi Olutade:

being part of this Babylon system that is actually leading to like social

Femi Olutade:

oppression and leading people away from God and distracting them with these

Femi Olutade:

things that are of Tim Porro and these things that are feeding their own life.

Femi Olutade:

I can validating these lies and keeping people on this road that leading

Femi Olutade:

to that, the structure of valley of

Lauryn Hill:

Hinnom and the visible war preoccupied with a shadow, making love

Lauryn Hill:

with a hole in the source, Babylon, the great mystery mother of human

Lauryn Hill:

history system of social sorcery.

Lauryn Hill:

Our present condition needs serious recognition when there's no repentance,

Lauryn Hill:

there can be no commission and that sentence more serious than Vietnam.

Femi Olutade:

That is also why, like, she's like you get free where the idea

Femi Olutade:

from the very beginning, this freedom time with the hook, and if like it's

Femi Olutade:

freedom time, like we need to get free.

Femi Olutade:

All of that is this idea of that you gave her, you need to repent of

Femi Olutade:

being part of this Babylon system.

Lauryn Hill:

We all take it.

Lauryn Hill:

The gospel is joining the church building and, and that's deception.

Lauryn Hill:

You know, the real gospel is repaired, which means let go of

Lauryn Hill:

all that crap is killing you.

Lauryn Hill:

Life was supposed to be a pleasurable experience.

Femi Olutade:

There's other songs later on.

Femi Olutade:

I like, you know, water, which you kind of seen already this cleansing motif.

Femi Olutade:

I just want you around.

Femi Olutade:

Is that really about turning that relationship with.

Femi Olutade:

And God and realizing that like when it's gone away from it.

Femi Olutade:

And so this repentance comes back

Lauryn Hill:

to,

Lauryn Hill:

I just want you,

Lauryn Hill:

I just want you,

Femi Olutade:

I got to find peace of mind.

Femi Olutade:

I'm Jesus referred to later on as like our peace he's at peace of mind, I got

Lauryn Hill:

a five piece.

Lauryn Hill:

But I know it's

Femi Olutade:

possible.

Femi Olutade:

The mystery of iniquity.

Femi Olutade:

And we talked about inequality in the mystery of Babylon.

Femi Olutade:

Yes.

Femi Olutade:

The

Lauryn Hill:

mystery over Nick would say, you said is the misery.

Femi Olutade:

Yeah, I get out, which is all about getting out of Babylon system.

Lauryn Hill:

I'll get out of all your boxes.

Lauryn Hill:

Get out.

Lauryn Hill:

You can't hold me in these chairs.

Femi Olutade:

And then after all that, it lands at the very end in

Femi Olutade:

this song, which is a conquering lion

Femi Olutade:

So this conquering rot lion, it's very clearly a reference to Jesus.

Femi Olutade:

Where that comes from is a few things.

Femi Olutade:

So Jesus is particularly in, we mentioned the book of revelation in terms of

Femi Olutade:

Babylon and like other things going on.

Femi Olutade:

And some things that, that John says.

Femi Olutade:

So one is he's referred to, as the lion of Judah is one term that's used in

Femi Olutade:

the rebel and the revelation that is in revelations five, John, the evangelist

Femi Olutade:

sees his vision and he sees someone who's sat on the throne and the scrolls.

Femi Olutade:

It's them, God sitting on the floor.

Femi Olutade:

And the garden, right?

Femi Olutade:

They like, what are you gonna now?

Femi Olutade:

Let's so like, let's so the big leaves together to close ourselves, but now

Femi Olutade:

they're closing these white garments.

Femi Olutade:

They actually have things that actually probably called

Femi Olutade:

themselves in their glorious.

Femi Olutade:

And they're shining.

Femi Olutade:

I mean, they're purified, they're cleanse.

Femi Olutade:

Right.

Femi Olutade:

And then the message to the church of Philadelphia.

Femi Olutade:

That's the one overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of God and

Femi Olutade:

he will not go out from it anymore.

Femi Olutade:

Our write my name, the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the

Femi Olutade:

new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God and in my new name.

Femi Olutade:

So again, the theme of names writing down and being tied to

Femi Olutade:

Jerusalem, this new Jerusalem, this new system that is opposed to the.

Femi Olutade:

So you have this Jerusalem versus Babylon dichotomy here and being

Femi Olutade:

made a pillar of the temple.

Femi Olutade:

That means that there'll be made part of the temple, which you have to be purified

Femi Olutade:

and cleansed to be part of the temple.

Lauryn Hill:

the only

Femi Olutade:

way to not join.

Femi Olutade:

Actually become like the ground and this where it goes all the way back to human

Femi Olutade:

being created from the ground is that they are actually supposed to be humble.

Femi Olutade:

Be like the ground.

Femi Olutade:

That's why it's even, you guys see this in English because in English,

Femi Olutade:

the root of humble is humus, which is means like fertile soil.

Femi Olutade:

The fruit is justice and rights.

Femi Olutade:

It's just living.

Femi Olutade:

It's not it's equality, it's justice.

Femi Olutade:

It's like doing things that actually lift up the vulnerable and create

Femi Olutade:

a quality and actually provide what is needed for all people.

Femi Olutade:

And that is as humble and, and it recognizes God as a king above all.

Lauryn Hill:

Th that was my origin.

Lauryn Hill:

My origin was much broader and much greater and far beyond.

Lauryn Hill:

My physical location at the time, you know, um, the joke that we would say

Lauryn Hill:

to ourselves was I was a queen born in public school, you know, in that,

Lauryn Hill:

uh, the desire to identify with, you know, the majestic nature of God,

Lauryn Hill:

you know, and not just a need to.

Lauryn Hill:

Assimilate oneself for the, for the purpose of, you know, look at my

Lauryn Hill:

new car, you know what I'm saying?

Lauryn Hill:

Look at how I've brought myself up in the world.

Lauryn Hill:

You know?

Lauryn Hill:

No, it's not enough for me.

Lauryn Hill:

I want to be, I want to be righteous.

Lauryn Hill:

I want to know what righteousness is.

Lauryn Hill:

Right.

Lauryn Hill:

And as a young girl, I mean, even in the beginning of your career, I

Lauryn Hill:

was constantly trying to identify myself with the rest of the world.

Lauryn Hill:

I am like everybody else.

Lauryn Hill:

I am normal.

Lauryn Hill:

And it took me a long time to accept it.

Lauryn Hill:

No, that's not actually true.

Lauryn Hill:

Because if I was like everybody else, then everybody else

Lauryn Hill:

would be doing what I'm doing.

Lauryn Hill:

Why am I in a position to feed?

Lauryn Hill:

Why am I in a position to teach?

Lauryn Hill:

Why am I in position to share?

Lauryn Hill:

If I'm like everybody else, then, then it makes this office moot.

Lauryn Hill:

And I had to accept that reality and then challenge all of the people

Lauryn Hill:

who have vehicles in my life to try to say, you know, you know, you're

Lauryn Hill:

just like everybody else, you know?

Lauryn Hill:

Who do you think you are?

Lauryn Hill:

And I said, I don't think I'm anybody, but I do have this perception.

Lauryn Hill:

And I didn't

Femi Olutade:

give it to myself.

Femi Olutade:

And so this idea of the conquering conquering is a different way to translate

Femi Olutade:

that word into conquering or overcoming it's about Jesus being conquering in that

Femi Olutade:

way, concrete through his death, Connor through his humility, conquering through

Femi Olutade:

being the source of life for other people.

Femi Olutade:

And joining guided concrete by repenting changing the way their thought, following

Femi Olutade:

Jesus commandments, living this way of humility and not cried and speaking and

Femi Olutade:

understanding God's word and doing it and doing the things that are going to bring

Femi Olutade:

forth Jetson righteousness for people.

Femi Olutade:

And not literally according to the ways of the current system and actually

Femi Olutade:

that's how they overcome Babylon.

Femi Olutade:

That's how they overcome the system.

Femi Olutade:

That's how they overcome the world system, the world, as it is the cosmos system.

Femi Olutade:

The Babylon system is through these acts of self sacrificial

Femi Olutade:

love through forgiveness, through.

Femi Olutade:

And through following God's like Jesus teachings and recognizing him as the

Lauryn Hill:

king, you know?

Lauryn Hill:

And when you are here to help the world, you absorb a huge amount

Lauryn Hill:

of negative energy and abuse because people have been abused.

Lauryn Hill:

That's why I said that I've been abused, but I still have

Lauryn Hill:

a certain amount of compassion.

Lauryn Hill:

For even the people who were abused me because I know

Lauryn Hill:

that they were abused first.

Lauryn Hill:

The only difference between me then, and me now, as I understand if

Lauryn Hill:

compassion on the man's mind after you dissolve them and bring them to the

Lauryn Hill:

ground and make sure his hands behind.

Lauryn Hill:

'cause if not, he'll hurt you.

Lauryn Hill:

And I've been hurt several times over by people who have

Lauryn Hill:

been operating out of fear.

Lauryn Hill:

I had a song lyric once that said, uh, the solution it's called indecision.

Lauryn Hill:

It says the solution is in the room, past the door and marked with a sign.

Lauryn Hill:

Don't open up someone like me when I see opportunity to learn higher wisdom,

Lauryn Hill:

you know, I just don't take those things for granted because you never know.

Lauryn Hill:

What could happen or what could not happen.

Femi Olutade:

And that's where he says the conquering lion shall break every chain.

Femi Olutade:

Oh

Lauryn Hill:

God.

Femi Olutade:

as far as breaking is him, is this idea of him

Femi Olutade:

feeding all the spiritual evil.

Femi Olutade:

And then also these idea of breaking every chain is this is also something,

Femi Olutade:

one of the properties about the message.

Femi Olutade:

Uh, about being anointed.

Femi Olutade:

One is from Isaiah 61.

Femi Olutade:

And so this just repeats again, the conquering lion shall break every chain.

Femi Olutade:

These are the chains that have been Lauryn's life on

Femi Olutade:

lives of those that she loves.

Femi Olutade:

And she's seen it starkly, but she's trying to say, Hey

Femi Olutade:

people, you should get free.

Lauryn Hill:

Yeah,

Femi Olutade:

uh, give him the victory again and again, and again, give

Femi Olutade:

them the free MC just repeats that the conquering lion shall break.

Femi Olutade:

Every chain is going to break all of those trains.

Femi Olutade:

And towards the end, she gets really emotional.

Femi Olutade:

She said, And she was like, she was going to break every one of those chains.

Femi Olutade:

It can just let him, and this is plead, like give him the

Femi Olutade:

victory, give him the victory.

Femi Olutade:

she has this kind of heavy Outre where she talks about how.

Femi Olutade:

She like recognized all, all this cheese started confessing of things

Femi Olutade:

she did in her past and things.

Femi Olutade:

And that there's all this repression things going on, um, to really understand

Lauryn Hill:

what this was all about.

Lauryn Hill:

I just went to my parents and I just started confessing about

Lauryn Hill:

stuff I did like in the second grade seriously, but we don't know

Lauryn Hill:

how all that stuff all the time.

Lauryn Hill:

We kids, man, all that repression, all that stuff.

Lauryn Hill:

Just holding you, you know, stuff out, talking about boys, feeling

Lauryn Hill:

my booty in the second grade.

Lauryn Hill:

I mean, I'm telling in shame that.

Lauryn Hill:

You know, and we think that that's God, we think that's telling us,

Lauryn Hill:

feel guilty to saying, get free confess, man, understand that?

Lauryn Hill:

Look, everybody's going through the same stuff.

Lauryn Hill:

Same issues.

Lauryn Hill:

It's just a bunch of repression.

Lauryn Hill:

And I'm saying, man, I was too, it's too valuable, man, for us to sit here in these

Lauryn Hill:

boxes, all repressed, you know, afraid to.

Lauryn Hill:

But we're really going through, you know

Femi Olutade:

what I'm saying?

Femi Olutade:

I said doing that, that she like found freedom.

Femi Olutade:

So she was like, it's freedom time.

Femi Olutade:

It's freedom time, get free, get free.

Femi Olutade:

It's freedom time.

Femi Olutade:

is this story that she's trying to tell which when you dig into

Femi Olutade:

it, it's really the biblical story from Genesis to the revelation.

Femi Olutade:

It is it's retelling the biblical story.

Femi Olutade:

That's what this album is doing.

Femi Olutade:

And it's what she's seen in her own.

Femi Olutade:

And your own experiences and how it changed, how she

Femi Olutade:

prioritized, what she did.

Femi Olutade:

This album is hard to understand for a lot of people.

Femi Olutade:

Is that it just so dense of thing, then so much went through it and wouldn't fit it.

Femi Olutade:

Just like a normal, like kind of poppy hip hop thing.

Femi Olutade:

It's you just wrote it all out, but it's like really her story.

Femi Olutade:

And it's the story of the Bible really?

Femi Olutade:

That's just told him this long poetic form over some, like,

Lauryn Hill:

The bars judgment is come find out that in return

Lauryn Hill:

to the one abandoned of flesh, self-interest Broadway to death,

Lauryn Hill:

bride and greed, hide and subdividing.

Lauryn Hill:

The seed, the knowledge of good and evil is what caused us to lie.

Lauryn Hill:

Caused us to die.

Lauryn Hill:

Let your emotions be crucified, renounced all your thoughts, repaint

Lauryn Hill:

and let your mind be retaught.

Lauryn Hill:

You'll find what you saw was based on a deception.

Lauryn Hill:

You bought a perception of not what a majority remains caught.

Lauryn Hill:

Now realizing an animal die, loving, alive that realizing in Adam all die, loving

Lauryn Hill:

the lie, not realizing and Adam off die, loving lie, not realize the anatomy that

Krystal Roberts:

Wow.

Krystal Roberts:

I see the story here.

Krystal Roberts:

You know, I remember listening to Lauryn in an interview where she

Krystal Roberts:

said, traditionally artists have usually been the ones that set outside

Krystal Roberts:

of society to show society itself.

Krystal Roberts:

And there is this parallel between the artists and the prophet who

Krystal Roberts:

tells a story of life, tells a story of humanity, the human condition.

Krystal Roberts:

So what's interesting about what Samia explained in regards to the

Krystal Roberts:

unplugged album, being a modern version of the biblical narrative,

Krystal Roberts:

but through Lauryn's life, she operated on that album specifically

Krystal Roberts:

in an office, similar to prophets, like Isaiah, Jeremiah, ordain, you.

Krystal Roberts:

And I want to be clear, not that I'm putting Lauryn on

Krystal Roberts:

the level of those plans.

Krystal Roberts:

But I bring them up only, I guess, in the context of what she offered the

Krystal Roberts:

content she offered on that album.

Krystal Roberts:

And then what we saw in his aftermath.

Krystal Roberts:

Like if we just think about the entire scene, the delivery of the unplugged.

Krystal Roberts:

And then the public's response to it.

Krystal Roberts:

The entire album was like a prophet prophesying until the wind.

Krystal Roberts:

While people shook their fist at her in anger and resentment for

Krystal Roberts:

what she was saying, it's the same sort of treatment we saw profits

Krystal Roberts:

get when they proclaimed God's word.

Krystal Roberts:

So as Femi goes, song by song, showing how Lauryn is telling the story of the Bible.

Krystal Roberts:

I thought to myself, Of course, they would have played out this way.

Krystal Roberts:

She had absorbed the words of the Bible and then attempted to share

Krystal Roberts:

with us what she came to understand.

Krystal Roberts:

And since she saw others going through the same things that she was, she

Krystal Roberts:

offered those solutions to us to overcome Babylon as Femi pointed out.

Krystal Roberts:

And as she said, and another place, I think at freedom time

Krystal Roberts:

where she said everything else.

Krystal Roberts:

Let them with them with ears.

Krystal Roberts:

Understand?

Femi Olutade:

Yeah.

Femi Olutade:

That's

Krystal Roberts:

exactly what happened.

Krystal Roberts:

It happened with her and it happened in the same Bible

Femi Olutade:

that she was told

Krystal Roberts:

that was so ingrained in her.

Krystal Roberts:

So, you know, someone understood what she was trying to say and some

Krystal Roberts:

didn't, I mean, I think the reviews

Femi Olutade:

made that

Matt Linder:

clear, oh, a hundred percent.

Matt Linder:

The reviews made that very clear that it was so misunderstood at the time, but

Matt Linder:

over time, like people have reassessed it and have come to better appreciate

Matt Linder:

what she was doing there on that stage.

Matt Linder:

Definitely with her using her prophetic voice in that moment.

Matt Linder:

And I want to go back to it.

Matt Linder:

You said at the very beginning about the story, I had never even thought

Matt Linder:

of this album as a whole narrative telling the story of creation and

Matt Linder:

sin and redemption and recreation.

Matt Linder:

And that was just a super interesting angle.

Matt Linder:

Hearing can be walked through that.

Matt Linder:

I'm like, okay, I see this, I hear this.

Matt Linder:

And I see how she's progressing through this story of redemption

Matt Linder:

and the Bible on this album.

Matt Linder:

That's not something I'd ever considered because the album is

Matt Linder:

just so loose in so many ways that it's like, oh, I don't think she was

Matt Linder:

thinking on that level to, but I.

Matt Linder:

I feel pretty convinced of why Femi has put forth here.

Matt Linder:

Cause cause I was to get, as she says near the beginning, that before it was that

Matt Linder:

these songs are about me and me first, which is definitely, but she also that

Matt Linder:

blurs the line on things when she speaks about Adam wasn't there any and says,

Matt Linder:

yeah, I'm talking about me, but I'm also talking about everyone at the same time.

Matt Linder:

So she goes from.

Matt Linder:

These are very personal songs about me and my life, but then IX bans them out to be

Matt Linder:

well, these are stories that are probably similar to stories you've experienced.

Matt Linder:

And beyond that, it's the story of the Bible and of God.

Matt Linder:

And this universe on this album with how Femi drew in Babylon system.

Matt Linder:

Bye Bob Marley and put the contrast between Babylon and Xian throughout

Matt Linder:

the, the album in Babylon about all the oppression that happens at the

Matt Linder:

world is tied to Babylon and that all the things that are good are

Matt Linder:

tied to Zion and throughout the L album, it's just talking about her

Matt Linder:

confronting Babylon over and over

Femi Olutade:

again.

Matt Linder:

How at the end.

Matt Linder:

Of the album, it returns it back to Jesus.

Matt Linder:

And that he's the one that conquers Babylon as the concrete in line, which

Matt Linder:

that song is not Lauryn's own song.

Matt Linder:

It's a cover of Bob Marley, lion of Judah.

Matt Linder:

Right.

Matt Linder:

And if you actually watched the unblock before mince on

Matt Linder:

that song, Rohatyn, Marlene.

Matt Linder:

Joins with her and he's playing on the congos along with her.

Matt Linder:

And so that really ties in the rasa, Faria and elements of Lauryn's spiritual

Matt Linder:

history, as well as being with Rowan and the influence she had from him there,

Matt Linder:

with her own Christianity that she grew up and then doing it through a cover song.

Matt Linder:

Uh, borough hands, father.

Matt Linder:

That's how probably most people around the world ever heard of Rastafarianism.

Matt Linder:

So it's this very interesting intermixing at the end that brings in all these ideas

Matt Linder:

of Babylon and Zion and concrete and line and Jesus, and like mixes them up into

Matt Linder:

this one, like beautiful whole thing.

Matt Linder:

That's falling from the Bible and falling for Rastafarianism and just showing this.

Matt Linder:

Very cool picture of all the spiritual influences that happen.

Matt Linder:

In Lauryn's music.

Krystal Roberts:

The story of Lauryn Hill is complicated, but it's also simple.

Krystal Roberts:

She received an abundance of love at home.

Krystal Roberts:

She wanted to give that love to the world, but she found out

Krystal Roberts:

that love is an automatic in life or in romantic relationships.

Krystal Roberts:

She lost herself in romantic love and in her music.

Krystal Roberts:

She realized her error and broke free personally.

Krystal Roberts:

And in her music career.

Krystal Roberts:

But she went on a crusade to love and to express freely, and she's been willing

Krystal Roberts:

to help others to confront systems of oppression because that to her is love.

Krystal Roberts:

It's the work

Lauryn Hill:

of God.

Lauryn Hill:

I am nothing.

Lauryn Hill:

No.