In 1932, America was deep in the Great Depression and looking for heroes.

Charles Lindbergh was one of them.

After becoming an international sensation for completing the first solo nonstop transatlantic flight, Lindbergh and his family lived under constant public attention. But their fame would soon collide with one of the most shocking crimes in American history.

When Lindbergh's infant son disappeared from the family's home in Hopewell, New Jersey, the case quickly became known as “The Crime of the Century.”

A homemade ladder beneath an open window.

A ransom note demanding $50,000.

A mysterious meeting in a cemetery.

And a tragedy that would shake the entire country.

In this episode, Jenn and Jared walk through the events of the Lindbergh kidnapping, the investigation that followed, and the man eventually accused of the crime.

This is the story of the Lindbergh baby kidnapping.

In This Episode

1. The rise of Charles Lindbergh as a national hero
2. The Lindbergh family's life under intense public attention
3. The night Charles Augustus Lindbergh Jr. disappeared
4. The ransom note and the mysterious homemade ladder
5. The cemetery meeting with the kidnapper
6. The discovery that shocked the nation
7. The investigation that led to Bruno Richard Hauptmann

• Lindbergh Kidnapping — FBI
• Charles Lindbergh Papers
• Lindbergh Investigations
• Homepage | National Air and Space Museum

Credits

Researched and Written by: Jenn

Hosted by: Jenn & Jared

Produced by: Jenn

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New episodes released regularly.

March, 1932. America is desperate for certainty. The country is broke, frightened, and clinging to heroes. When something unthinkable happens to one of the most famous families in the nation, the shock is immediate, and so is the demand for answers. The press moves faster than the police. Rumors harden into facts.

Evidence is handled. Rehung, reexamined, and reinterpreted, and somewhere between grief and spectacle. The question quietly shifts. Not what happened, but how badly did we need this to be solved tonight?

We're not telling the story you think you know. Welcome to the House of Six. Tonight we present Lindbergh Lies and the Ladder. This is the case of Baby Lindbergh.

Welcome to the house of six. I'm dread

you. Don't do that.

Welcome to the house of six. This is Jen.

I'm, I'm Jared.

Yeah, that's my robot voice.

Mm.

Do you like it?

No.

Yeah. Uh, so this is relevant question. What do you think about the royal family? They've been in the news lately, so not the news story, but like, just in general, what do you feel about the Royals?

Are you interested or do you just not care?

I'm more interested than the average Joe,

bear,

Joe, uh, Joe,

who's Joe?

Guy, the average guy. Uh, I think that it's interesting in the fact that it dates so far back. It is a lifestyle that is in most cases outdated by a lot.

Hmm, mm-hmm.

And some of the people in it are not so great.

And some of the people are, seem to be decent human beings.

Um, some of 'em are criminals,

some of them are criminals. Some of 'em are going to jail right now. But, um, jingle. Um, but yeah, so yeah, I'm not totally dis I mean, it, it, it, there's a little spark of interest there.

I find it really fascinating because like you said, it's a lifestyle that I don't think we can ever really understand because it's so, it dates back so far and it really doesn't mean anything anymore.

Right.

Um, I it the monarchy is just a figurehead.

Yeah.

And I think that they do a lot of good work. I know that they do a lot of charitable work, but also they, uh, cost the taxpayers a lot of money. And I, that's not say they

probably shit on a lot of people too equally.

Oh, oh goodness.

Well, just because of the rules of living, I guess I'll say.

Yeah. Yeah. I really appreciate how well Princess Diana raised William and Harry and I know a lot of people have a lot of hate for Harry and Meghan. Probably Meghan more than anything, and I think some of it's probably racism. The press did a dirty number on her and I don't, here's the thing, I don't understand how you can hate her because Yeah, you don't even know her.

No,

not you, the proverbial you,

but

yeah. Right. Yeah. Like all these people that hate her and think that she's just a social climber or whatever else, or after the money, first of all, she had plenty of money from suits before they even got married, and second of all, like you don't know her. You don't know them.

No.

Like the, the press or the stories get planted in the press all the time. No matter if they're from the Royal family or Ha, Harry and Meghan or whatever, it doesn't even matter.

You know what I say about those people that have those racial feelings? Fuck off.

That's right. Do anyhow. I'm really fascinated with the royals and I mean, going back Sure.

In history, like super interested in the Tudor Sty period and getting all into that Henry viii. Uh, I just wanted to clarify who that, who that was. 'cause you were looking at me like, oh, you're so cute. And, um, I find all of that really fascinating, just the royal history in general. I think royalty is dumb.

Like, because essentially they were just born into it. That's the only reason they are who they are. Right, right. It was just happenstance. Even the Queen that just recently, Elizabeth II that just recently passed away, she. Became queen by chance because her father became king after his brother abdicated the throne to Mary Wallace Simpson.

I can do a whole story on that. It's super fascinating.

Understood.

But like she shouldn't have even been queen anyways, which she probably would've because Edward didn't have any children, so she still would've become queen, but if he had children, she wouldn't have been queen. All this to say is just happenstance.

Like these people are whatever.

Yeah. Lasted a long time.

Indeed. Well, and I'm telling you, with everything going on right now, the monarchy might be in trouble

probably

because people are tired of their shit.

Yeah, right.

And I do like William and Catherine though. I think they are. They seem like very standup couple.

They do good things in the world. I think Harry and Meghan do think good things in the world too. All of their charities are super great. Yeah. I wanna start a charity. I need money. Send me money. Just kidding. Don't send me money. That would be weird. But, um, yeah. So all of this is getting into my story in a weird way because we're going to talk about what could be considered American royalty at the time.

Now, what do you remember about the people in the Amelia Erhardt episode? Go.

The people.

Yeah. That weren't Amelia Erhardt. We also talked about Charles Lindbergh.

Okay.

In that episode. Okay. Do you remember what we talked about, Charles Lindberg?

Nope. I mean, I, I, no, nothing's coming to mind.

Okay. What do you know about Charles Linberg?

No, we're not going down that path.

So nothing,

not enough?

Well. Okay, we are going to talk about the tragedy that happened in Charles Lindbergh's life. Today we're gonna talk about the Lindbergh baby.

Okay?

Nope.

Yeah.

Okay. I didn't think so. I'm not, it's okay. 'cause this was from the thirties. This was almost a hundred years ago.

Yeah.

Let's go back to 1932. All right. America is deep into the depression. That is bad news. Bears banks are failing unemployment skyrocketing. That's no good public trust in institutions. Nope, it's not good. , People were looking for stability, reassurance, and someone to believe in. You know, they just needed something interesting to happen in their lives because right now, their lives were sucking.

All right? So newspapers were not just reporting the news, they were shaping it, competing fiercely for attention in a world where radio was rising and competing with print. Alright? Law enforcement worked a little bit differently than, you know, I like to talk about that. They're doing some good things.

They're doing some not so good things, right? Forensic science is just coming into being. But at that point, if somebody confessed to a crime, it was like, well, they did at case clothes we're outta here.

It is actually shocking how many people fake confess to crimes.

Yeah.

In real life.

Yeah.

It happens all the time.

Hmm. Not on my agenda.

Well, uh, a lot of it comes down to police. I don't wanna say police brutality, but when there are false confessions, a lot of times it is because either they don't, you know, it's somebody that doesn't understand the law, they're being pressured, they're basically being told, we know you did it, just confess.

Like we know you did it. Right. Right. So, I, I'm not gonna commentate on police procedure from that perspective in this because it doesn't really matter. So I don't really know why I started talking about it.

Okay. All right. We all go down paths.

I, I'm down 50 different paths in five seconds. It's a lot of paths.

It is

too many paths.

So at this point in time, in 1932, you're looking at a country that is desperate for a little bit of certainty. They're looking for somebody to admire somebody, to look up to some, somebody to impress them. Mm-hmm. And in walks, Charles Lindbergh, this guy. All right. By the early 1930s, Charles Lindbergh was not simply a public figure, he was a national symbol.

He was born on February 4th in 1902 in Detroit, Michigan. What do we know about Detroit? This girl knows nothing.

I mean, back then or now.

Cars.

Yeah, cars, yeah.

Is that a.

Ford.

Ford.

Yeah.

So that's, I didn't know that's where Ford was. If I had thought about it, I probably would have. But anyways, Lindbergh grew up in a household that was already familiar with public life.

All right. His father served as a US congressman. From an early age, Charles was exposed to discipline expectations and scrutiny, and this is going to feed into his personality. Right. After briefly studying engineering, he left college to pursue aviation and probably guessing that that didn't make his father very happy.

Leaving school, he left college to pursue aviation, entering a field that was at this point in time, dangerous, experimental, uh, prone to death. Planes were new.

Mm-hmm.

Okay. So he trained as a pilot in the US Army Air Service before moving into civilian work as an air mail pilot.

We need a male guys. So that's good for him. A job that routinely involved flying long distances alone in poor weather with minimal navigational tools, I guess, is that no matter when rain, sleet, and snow.

Yeah.

Is that the,

something like that?

Something like that. I don't

know.

You'll get your bills. Yeah.

Yeah. I will always get my bills. I've got quite a few coming in the mail right now and they are, so I need to pay 'em by March 18th. Anyways, um,

very personal.

Well that deviated and any event. Everything changed in May of 1920 seventh because on May 20th, Lin Burke took off from New York and flew nonstop across the Atlantic landing in Paris, roughly 33 and a half hours later.

Hmm.

That's the longest flight of my life that I've ever, never had. What's, what's a Atlanta to Paris now is like what, eight hours?

Nine hours? Yeah.

33 and a half. Was he on a boat? No, he was, that's, that's, that's

a long term

how that Okay. That doesn't even make sense because I feel like that's a really slow plane.

How did it stay airborne? I don't understand how planes work.

You mean 'cause of fuel?

No, I mean, how does it stay airborne? It has to go fast enough to get wind and lift and force and turbines. That's what I know about planes. I don't know how planes fly. I assume it's magic.

Well, it is, but you know, turbines wasn't a part of the life until

later.

It has something to do with thrust and lift.

Yes.

And speed.

Yes. Sure.

So I don't understand how flying works, but in any event, this is the first solo nonstop transatlantic flight, and it made him an instantaneous celebrity. Okay? Okay. He was the man. Lindbergh returned home to massive crowds, like a literal ticker tape parade, you know,

hit a parade.

It's confetti. Like he was going down, what's the, what's the road in In New York? New York where they do the parades.

I, I know

down that road, they're going down that road to literal parades.

That's bothering me. Yeah. Uh, but yeah,

main Street, fifth Avenue

might be Fifth Avenue, actually.

I don't think that's right.

I dunno. Uh, this like, we've got some stupid, I'm dumb. Like sometimes I feel dumb 'cause I say something and I'm like, huh. But anyways, he returned to international honors. Relentless press attention. The press hounded him. This is the days and the arrival. The rise of the paparazzi, if you will. It's nothing like it is today.

I don't think people could still escape, but it, it is definitely the rise. And so from 1927 through the early 1930s, his movements were very closely followed. His public appearances were carefully stage and his reputation was fiercely protected. He was wildly described as the most famous man in the world at the time.

Facts.

Okay.

This is facts

of a boring world.

Oh, well you gotta realize though, at the time, like flying was a a, a novelty. Yeah,

yeah, yeah.

They weren't, commercial flights had begun, but it was just short flights, right. This was not, I mean, when was the first flights? 1901, I believe.

No, I was actually thinking of that earlier, but I wasn't gonna ask

it.

I believe 1901 was the first flight. Look that up.

Alexa, when was the first flight in Kitty Hawk?

I was so close.

Correction. Correction. The first flight was in 1903. I was off by two years, but anyways, so by 1927 it had been around for 20 years and certainly it started to be, planes started to be used in wars and and whatnot, but I think it was still like a crap shoot if you made it out alive.

Yeah.

I mean, it wasn't the, it wasn't the campus sticks.

Some people feel like that today. I don't know what you mean. So. And anyways, he was admired, not just for the flight itself, but I think what it represented at the time it represented a human and scientific achievement. So this was a big deal. Famous guy. All right. In 1929, Lindbergh met Ann Morrow, the daughter of Dwight Morrow, who was serving as US Ambassador to Mexico, and would later become a US Senator.

So the, these families were just famous political families. Ann came from this prominent political family and was known for her education, intelligence, and quiet reserve. That's what I'm known for, my quiet reserve. Everybody can't talk about that enough. The two were married. You wanna, you wanna comment?

You wanna comment?

You have quiet reserve when you don't wanna talk to me.

He's feeling brave folks. So. Eh, let's see. The two were married on May 27th, 1929, almost a full two years after his transatlantic flight in a ceremony that received massive media coverage. 'cause these are two prominent people from prominent families getting married and apparently the most famous man in the world.

Rather than retreat from public life, the couple became even more visible. Ann didn't just accompany Charles on flights. She trained as a pilot and a navigator.

Okay. Now this is almost unheard of. At the time there were very few lady pilots as we learned in the Amelia airport episode. Sure. Alright. She learned morse code, handled radio communications, plotted routes, and kept detailed logs during these flights in the early 1930s. Uh, this is not symbolic participation.

All right. It is technical, demanding, and rare for a woman to do this in a high, especially in a highly public marriage.

Yeah.

This is, this is one cool chick.

You weren't allowed to do anything else. I guess you could do that though.

Uh, you could vote at this point.

Yeah.

Just,

okay. You're right. You are right.

Just came in a couple years before we got the right to vote. Thanks.

Yeah,

thanks Congress. In any event, uh,

you can have a voice bitch. Sorry.

You damn right. I do have a voice and I'm using it for this podcast. Together they undertook international flights and this fueled the public fascination, uh, with their marriage and reinforce the image of Lindbergh as both hero and modern pioneer.

Okay? And all around family men, Anne's aviation work also places her within a very small and visible circle. In the late 1920s and early 1930s, there were only a handful of women seriously involved in flight, and they were often spoken about as symbols rather than professionals. These were novelties, these women, uh, one, obviously one of the most famous is Amelia Earhart.

And, uh, that didn't end well,

right?

Yep. Sorry. Or maybe, maybe

it did. We don't know.

You know? That's true. We don't know. We still

don't know.

But we do,

but we do.

Okay. She went into the ocean and it was a very sad deal.

Okay.

Let's just be clear about that. But if you wanna know more, check out Episode 10.

There go. You're welcome.

Yeah.

Like Erhardt and Mrow. Lindbergh existed at the intersection of skill celebrity and expectations. Their accomplishments were certainly admired, but personal autonomy was constantly negotiated in public because you just can't leave women alone.

So, moving on, eh? On June 22nd, 1930, their first child, Charles Augustus Lindbergh Jr. Was born.

Ah, look at that. We share something.

We do.

Do you not get what I was saying about when we share something?

Oh, I am an idiot.

Just another day.

Yes. That is your birthday. I was looking at the ju 'cause I had just a junior and I was like, you're not a junior. What? What? Yes. I don't, do you wanna make this correlation?

No. No.

Ugh.

We made the June 22nd.

No. Just any correlation with Junior here?

No.

Okay.

Why does he die?

Well, we're talking about the story right now. Can we get through it?

I know, but let's, yeah. So let's get back to a point

from the moment of his birth, the child became the figure of public interest because his fa, his parents were both famous.

So he basically was born into the Famousness Li

Limelight or whatever. Was it?

Limelight.

Limelight. I never really understood

indeed.

What is limelight?

The light of the lime,

right?

I don't know what it means

exactly. I don't either.

I have no idea what it means. I will look that up. All right. So by early,

sorry.

The light of the lime?

Of the lime.

Oh, Jesus.

I don't know what it means. I don't know. By early 1932, the Lindbergh's were wealthy. Of course. They were world famous and constantly observed. Their private lives were. So private. Their routines discussed openly on the news. Their status placed them in a category few Americans could ever relate to, but many of them were very well invested into their lives.

All right, so from the outside, Charles and Ann Lindbergh appeared comfortable in the private eye. In reality, their relationship with fame was complicated and strained. Charles in particular, was deeply uncomfortable with the attention. After his transatlantic flight, he accepted public appearances and honors largely out of obligation, but he was not enthusiastic about it. He valued control, privacy order. He often expressed frustration with the press following him, his movements and speculating about his personal life.

And Amro Lindbergh approached public scrutiny differently. She was more introspective and reflective, and while she understood the expectations placed upon her as Lindbergh's wife, she really struggled with the loss of anonymity. Both of them attempted in different ways to create boundaries between their public roles and private lives.

They sought quieter environments and tried to maintain a sense of normalcy despite being constantly observed. Now, remember, they lived in New York City at this point in time, so they were right in the middle of, of everything. But by the early 1930s, complete privacy was, it's, it's just not realistic anymore.

Their fame had reached a point where even attempts to withdraw seemed to heighten the public interest even more. On a personal level, Charles and Ann Lindberg were often very different from the images projected onto them. Charles was disciplined, controlled, intensely private.

These traits served him well as a pilot, especially in high risk solitary flights. But it also made him rigid. It made him unable to step out of his comfort zone, if you will. He needed order and control to, to function properly. He could be emotionally reserved to the point of detachment, and those close to him sometimes described him as distant, stubborn, and uncomfortable with vulnerability.

I mean, who isn't com Who isn't uncomfortable with vulnerability? Like, get outta here. I bet you're, pardon. Am I telling about myself here?

I wasn't gonna say a word,

so, but yeah, he struggled when events moved beyond his ability to manage them. Yeah. So Anne, by contrast, was introspective, articulate, and observer.

Observant. She kept journals that reflected deeply on her experiences and was sensitive to emotional undercurrents in a way that Charles just couldn't. He couldn't. He. That's not him. This. Oh, anyways, uh, yeah. Anne often felt torn between her private self and public role. She was expected to inhabit, and this is captured in her journals, which we are aware of today.

So we, we have those today. I'm not just making this up, this is all in her writing, right. But together they formed a partnership built on shared purpose rather than emotional openness. Right. Their marriage functioned well. It seemed like they were a very happily married couple, even though their fame sometimes got in the way.

Um. Charles Lindbergh had a reputation among friends for being, uh, controlled, exacting, and occasionally severe. Some recalled that his sense of humor could be abrupt and unsettling on one occasion, not long before the situation that we're about to talk about, he briefly concealed Charles Jr in a closet as a joke, and then told his wife and the nanny that he couldn't find the kid.

Okay, well, causing a fucking panic.

That's just an asshole.

Who would do that? An

asshole.

He thought it was funny, or I think it was actually thoughtless and misjudged humor.

Yeah. Yeah,

yeah. So that happened.

Yeah. That, that's not cool.

You might wanna remember this.

Yeah.

Going forward.

Okay.

All righty. It is not cool.

And that distinction matters. I say

ranks right up there was scar, my grandmother, and almost killing her.

Feeling guilty.

Yeah.

Did you kill her?

Nope.

Did you killed your grandmother?

No. Nope. Nope. I, she told me. I almost did though, when I was a kid.

Well, and that probably means that that's why you don't jump scare people today. And let me tell you what that's grounds for divorce. Yeah. Jump scaring. Yeah. I hate to be startled.

I don't do it. Not

to you,

you, I don't do it to you.

You do startle me.

Yeah. By existing, existing being in the other room and you walking in and going, ah, we like, I'm breathing that. You know? That's a fact. Everything I'm saying is a fact.

It is a straight fact. It is. He can walk into the room and it will scare the bananas outta me.

And I just don't know. I'm just

functioning.

But I didn't know you were gonna walk in the room.

Right.

So you should wear bells and then I'll know where you are all the time. But then I'll be annoyed. You can't win. Yeah. Sherlock Greece.

Yeah.

All right. In early 1932, the Lindbergh family was staying at a newly built home in Hopewell Township

this was a rural area chosen specifically for privacy. The primary residence was in Englewood, which was a more established community, closer to New York City and Hopewell Township was about 60 miles southwest of New York City. Okay. Now, I don't know my directions very well, so

I think I've heard of Englewood.

That is why I was actually, but

really,

thanks, Chewbacca.

I've, I've never heard of it. Yeah, I

could be,

but it's 60 miles outside of the city. Let's just go with that.

There you go.

Alright. The house sat on a large wooded property removed from nearby roads and no and neighboring homes. It was intended as a retreat, a place where Charles and Anne could step away from constant public attention and live more quietly, even if only temporarily.

I would like to have enough money to have a separate house just to get away. It would be at the beach though, not in Englewood.

I didn't know if you meant to get away from me.

Yeah. At the beach.

Do I get to go shit?

Yeah. Schedule your own vacation. Just kidding. Uh, at the time, the home was relatively isolated with limited development around that.

That's probably not the case anymore. I have absolutely no idea. But the decision to be there that night was not unusual. It was planned. On this particular evening, the family remained at the Hopewell house rather than returning to the home in the city.

All is as planned.

Okay.

For now. Okay. All right. Inside the house that night were Charles and Anne Lindbergh, their infant son and a small household staff. Of course, they had a household staff, right?

Right. A household staff of 40.

Yes, we have a household staff. It's called Jen and Jared.

Right?

Sherlock doesn't count.

He does.

He didn't do shit.

He doesn't do anything except look cute. Yep. So this staff included, a nurse made caring for the child and domestic staff responsible for maintaining the home. Everyone present there was a part of the normal operations. There were no guests, no gatherings, business as usual.

Importantly, this was not a heavily guarded residence. Okay. They didn't have security.

Sure.

All right. Despite their fame, security was pretty much non-existent. The family relied on distance and privacy to keep them away from the common folk, if you will. That's us, we're the common folk.

Mm-hmm.

Right. So anyways, on the evening of March 1st, 1932.

They were going through their normal patterns. The house known as high fields was quiet, more of a country retreat. Dinner was taken early. There were no visitors, no engagements, and no interruption. It was just a standard domestic subdued routine. It's all going great. Okay.

Their infant son was cared for by his nursemaid, who handled his usual evening tasks. He was put to bed early. Charles and Anne remained downstairs afterwards in the shared living spaces. Nothing about the evening stood out. It was unremarkable, structured and calm. So just for reference, this is a two story house, simple design.

Ground floor was like the living space as normal, living room, dining room, whatever. And the bedrooms were upstairs. Okay? So the baby's upstairs ready? As the night continued, each person just went about their normal business. The nurse maid believed that the child was asleep upstairs. Her duties were complete.

She was going to her room to get some rest for crying out loud because it's not like anybody else was taking care of this baby. Just saying Charles and Anne were believing that the house is settled and secure. They were downstairs just having a nice, quiet evening between the two of them. It was silent throughout the house at approximately 10:00 PM This it at approximately 10:00 PM Everything changes.

Okay. I'm so sorry. Hmm. When the nurse maid went upstairs to check on the baby, the nursery is empty. The crib unoccupied. First reaction is confusion. Nobody's panicking yet. She's like, Hmm. I thought I left the baby in here.

I wonder if your father put 'em in the closet again.

Well, that, I checked the closet first.

The assumption is that somebody else got 'em. Everybody thought somebody else Sure. Got 'em and took him somewhere else, maybe to sue them or whatever. Sure. No, not quite panic yet. But Charles Lindberg was alerted and they started the search immediately. All of the rooms were checked quickly. They checked them again.

No one inside could account from the child. What had seemed to be initially a misunderstanding. Started to look a little bit deliberate. The child is gone. Lindbergh went outside with a flashlight and scanned the ground below the nursery windows beneath one of them. He found a wooden ladder lying in sections on the ground like it had broken apart.

This is a handmade ladder.

It's not good. It's not good.

No, it's not good. There's a ladder beneath the window. Okay. Uh, this homemade ladder, one part lay flat on the ground, another leaned up against the house and nearby the soil showed fresh disturbance. I don't know if that means footprints or maybe like where they had set the ladder into the, the ground all above.

Probably that is correct, but at this point, uh, there is no mistake. The, the kid's been taken. Right, right. Returning to the nursery, a handwritten note was found on the window sill. They didn't notice it before, which seems really strange to me, but I guess they were just looking for a kid and not a note.

There you go.

But in any event, it says, and I'm quoting here, dear Sir, with an exclamation point, have 50,000 ready, $2,500 in 20 bills, $15,000 in 10 bills, and $10,000 in five bills. After two to four days, we will inform you where to deliver the money. We warn you for making anything is what it meant to say public or for the police.

The child is in good care. Indication for all letters are signatures and three holes. There's a lot of grammatical and spelling errors in here as, yeah.

Got it.

Okay. This at the bottom indication for all letters are signature and three holes, meaning that they'll have this special punch in the letter to show that it's that that's who it's from.

Really strange. Uh,

yeah. So this is an abduction. Okay. Local law enforcement was contacted immediately. Word spread quickly. The news got out. I don't know who linked it, but I'm pretty sure it might have been somebody in the police. But by the time authorities arrived at High Fields, the scene had already expanded beyond a private situation.

The isolation had been broken here within hours. The disappearance of the Lindbergh baby was no longer confined to this small house. It was now in national news within hours.

The baby's been abducted.

Okay. Yeah, totally. Already got over that.

No, we're not over it. Okay. The baby's been abducted. Okay. Who abducts a baby?

Plenty of people.

I have never abducted a baby.

No, I didn't say you. I said plenty of people.

I've never had a baby abducted because I'm lucky. That's, I don't wanna

Right.

There's no shame in having your baby abducted. It's not your fault. Unless it is. There's

bad people out there, man.

There are a lot of bad people there, and I don't like that.

Yeah.

Once it was clear that Charles Augustus Lindberg Jr. Was missing, now we gotta be urgent about this. All right. Charles Lindbergh treated it as a kidnapping immediately. He was like, my kid's been kidnapped. Fucking handle it.

What else would I do?

Yeah, what, I mean, what would I sit around and think about? What other words I can make up for the situation? No, it's kidnapping.

It's kidnapping.

Right?

We've established

that. What are you talking about? He'd be like, well, no. I was like, he immediately thought that, like, well, yeah.

Well, to be fair, he told a poor joke before about its kid being missing.

But, no, I was saying, but him, well, he's, again, he's a,

he's a strange man.

Strange man.

He's a strange man. So he directed searches inside and outside of the house while he got everybody to follow his lead. Hopewell Township Police arrived first, followed quickly by the New Jersey State Police. That's good. Because of Lindbergh's prominence, the response escalated very quickly. I'm surprised the FBI isn't here already. I would've called in the FBI if I was Charles Lindbergh. That's what I say. I soon The FB.

Yeah, the FBI existed.

I was thinking the same thing.

I had to be like, what? Yeah. So what might have been a local emergency became a state matter quickly, which is, which is good. Inside the nursery was reexamined the note. The open window and the ladder outside were now connected. Officers searched the grounds with flashlights looking for tracks and discarded items.

Dark well in the darkness. That what they could see, 'cause this was, this was past two, this was probably 11:12 PM at this point, or midnight at this point. All right.

New spread quickly. Officers, staff and others moved throughout the property. There were, at this point, there were no established protocols for, uh, creating a crime scene. So, what am I trying to say? Uh, there were no established protocols for crime scenes of this scale. Okay. Because this covered an entire property.

Oh, okay.

Um, by early morning, the disappearance had shifted from a family crisis to a law enforcement emergency, so they were getting in on it.

All right, so let's talk about the ladder that was found directly below the nursery window. It was homemade and assembled from different types of wood. One section rested on the ground, another leaned against the house. A third lay nearby, separated rather than stacked. One rung was cracked on the ladder.

This is important. The wood showed stress consistent with bearing weight and breaking.

The soil beneath the window was disturbed. And impressions suggested recent movement with the, , ladder. And then there were footprints leading away, two prints leading away from the house. , This ladder offered something critical, , obviously explaining how somebody could reach the window from outside.

Now the next question is, why is this fucking window open? There's a baby inside that's just seems crazy

being unlocked.

It's March in New Jersey,

but it was unlocked or open?

It was open.

Oh, that's weird,

right? Yeah. Wouldn't it be chilly?

It'd be cold. It wouldn't be chilly

at night. At 10:00 PM in New Jersey.

Yeah, it'd be cold.

Well, that's weird.

It got snow up there right now. At least I think it did. I think they had major snow up there. Anyway,

it was 70 degrees here yesterday. We don't have snow, right? It's not even March, February, for fuck's sake. Beyond the ransom note ladder and disturbed soil.

There was very little else inside the nursery. Nothing was ransacked. It was just gone, baby. The room was orderly. No struggle, no blood. I mean, a baby's not gonna put up a lot of struggle. It's gonna be like, Hey, what you done? Fancy seeing you. Here I is that how babies talk? That

it is? It is. No, you were spot on.

No regret.

Yes. Yep. Yep. So really weird. There was a missing blanket from the crib. It was probably taken with the kid, wrapped him up and snatched him right outta there. But that's it. They've got a note and they got a missing baby, and they got a ladder and some soil. That's it. And I will tell you that's not a whole lot for police in the 1930s.

Right.

Okay. Now they did have the ability to fingerprint, we know that. When did fingerprints come about 1901. Sure. And I can assure you that the New Jersey State Police use it used fingerprints by 1932.

So, you know, while while we're on, you reminding me of things I should remember, do I need to start taking notes That w would that make you happier?

Make me happier?

Yeah.

I don't think it really matters.

I think it might.

Why

I want to, you know, I don't want to disappoint you.

You're not disappointing me.

I don't even

know what you're talking

about. No, because you always, you always say, you know, what about when were things, this, that, and the other? And I'm like, shit.

Well, it's also for the podcast.

That's fine

to tell people when

Sure.

Fingerprinting

came around. No problem. That, but I feel, you know, I feel like, oh fuck. 'cause actually, when you said 1901, I was like, because in my head I came up with the date. I was like, fuck, it's earlier than that.

It wasn't 19 one in your head.

No, it was a little bit later than that.

Yeah. I just remember these things. 'cause I see it a lot. You do? Because I look it up.

You do.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. That's, but it's also for the podcast, it's not just so much for you, it's just informational. And I think it's interesting to learn when fingerprints came about.

Of course.

And blood, uh, blood typing. When was that?

No, I don't

remember. 1901, it's the same year. Oh,

I don't remember that. I actually

really don't remember. Same year. Yep. So, yeah, what authorities had to work with at the time. There were. Like we said, no standardized crime scene protocols. Obviously we didn't have DNA, there was no centralized databases, no uniform command structure.

They were just flying by the seat of their pants. They had fingerprinting and notes and that's it. Yep. Now just kidding. Um, like they did handwriting analysis, obviously witness statements. They took confessions. They sure did. Given Lindbergh's prominence, uh, manpower and urgency came in quick on this one.

They jumped right on this, , they immediately escalated. It got natural national attention. They organized searches to the surrounding area, the woods, everything and leads were pursued aggressively in this case. So at least they were working from, you know, the sense that Charles Lindbergh is a famous and powerful dude.

You know, it's good to be somebody.

It is good to be somebody. But f immediately the ransom note was taken and treated as credible from the very beginning. Now, the problem is not lack of effort. The problem is lack of control. All right? The crime scene became car crowded immediately. They had multiple agencies, they had the household staff.

All of these people were moving around the house and the grounds. Evidence was handled before it was fully understood. So everybody that ran upstairs to the baby's room immediately handled the ransom note. And then who becomes involved? The press becomes involved. And who, boy, , they all knew that it was a kidnapping, and they all knew that it was a ransom.

And by mourning the, this entire story was splashed internationally across newspapers. They framed the disappearance as more than a crime. It was presented as a crisis involving one of the country's most celebrated figures. Oh, yeah. They went all in on the sensationalism. And so this public attention is really going to complicate the investigation because immediately speculation started appearing in print.

Tips flooded into the newspapers, into the police. , The house which was originally chosen for isolation now became the. Headquarters for this ransom situation with the police and the press and everybody, all right. In the days, immediately following the kidnapping, the investigation stalled almost immediately.

Authorities had no suspect, no trail away from the house, no evidence. But on the, the ladder and the ransom note, that's all they had. So the case narrowed to a single expectation of let's hope the kidnapper contacts us again, because what are we gonna do?

Right? Additional ransom Notes arrived by mail over the next several days. Each repeated the same demands. $50,000. We gotta be secret about it. You gotta do everything I say and it's, they all had the same signature and the three holes punched into it. The letters insisted the child was alive and warned against police involvement.

Now we already know the police are involved.

Yeah. You guys paying attention?

Yep. Well, right. All they would've had to do is read the newspaper. They would've seen it. They would've seen pictures if there are pictures of the

police. Right. Or if you saw any activity at the house. At all.

Yep. So immediately investigators got to work on the letter handwriting.

Experts were consulted and had, were analyzing the letter. The ladder was analyzed. And again, we've got tips flooding in across the country, but none of them produced a lead. They still had nothing. On March 6th, a 60-year-old retired school teacher from the Bronx named John Conn, inserted himself into the case publicly.

This is so weird. He went to a New York newspaper offering to serve as an intermediary between the Lindbergh family and the kidnapper. He was not law enforcement. He had no prior connection to the family. Under normal circumstances, they would've been like, get outta here dude. Who are you?

Or you're the guy,

this is so weird.

Yeah. Lindbergh read the letter from Condon and approved his involvement, like Lindbergh's calling the shots, not the police. I guess because he's just so famous. He just commands control and the authorities are like, okay, he is the boss.

I was more focused on why the hell he chosen or let him be a part of it.

I think he was just terrified. 'cause the, obviously the police couldn't contact the kidnappers.

He's looking for any help he can get, I

guess. So I think he's just looking for somebody instead of talking with the kidnappers directly. I'm not sure. It's a very strange, uh, thing. Civilian intermediaries were not unheard of in ransom cases, but like, I don't know.

I'd be like, who is this guy?

Right?

I'm not sure, but obviously the priority is keeping the kidnapper engaged in conversation. So from that point forward, Condon became the family's go-between. All right. In mid-March 1932, through coded messages placed in newspapers, Condon established contact with the kidnappers instructions were exchanged publicly, but obliquely phrasing it in a way that signaled authenticity without revealing specifics, which is just really quite strange.

They're sending coded messages in the newspaper, what are they? The mob. But eventually the kidnapper agrees to meet. All right. The meeting took place at night in St. Raymond's Cemetery in the Bronx. Condon went alone, carrying only a flashlight. Charles Lindbergh followed separately and waited nearby out, out of sight, but within earshot, which would have to be really close, but I guess you're in a cemetery.

What's he behind? A headstone? YY. Oh yeah. So law enforcement knew about the meeting but did not accompany them because the kidnappers were like, don't. So they were like, okay. Among the graves, this is just bonkers here. Okay. Condon encountered a man who identified himself as John, and he was later referred to from then on as cemetery John.

Okay. Makes me spot on.

It's better than grave robber John, I guess. I don't know. Or kidnapper. John. Let's face it,

I work with someone that used to dig graves. Just thought I'd throw that in there.

You work with somebody today that digs graves?

Yes. That used to dig graves.

That used to dig graves. Mm-hmm. By hand or with like a

digger?

No, I mean, she's, she's,

she,

she, yeah.

It just gets better and better.

Yeah. So I just thought, I thought that there random. Keep going.

What kind of graves? Like in a cemetery or like,

I don't know. Who knows?

She just said, I used to dig graves.

Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah.

That came up in conversation.

Oh, she's very open about it.

You know,

very young.

I don't know what to say about that.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, cool. Yep. , So cemetery John spoke with a foreign accent. He claimed that the child was alive and being held by others. He refused to disclose the location. Obviously that's like, what an idiot if he did that, but insisted payment would produce instructions.

To have the child return her. Okay. Conden did ask about the child's condition. The man said the child was quote unquote safe. That's all we got. Lindbergh listening from a distance later stated that the voice sounded foreign, possibly German. The meeting ended without violence, without proof, without the child.

That's for sure. But it established something critical. There was a real person responding at this point in time. The ransom seemed to be real. Someone was engaged and Lindbergh believed that this would result in getting his child back. Now I was wondering like how hard would it be as a father to sit to the side and hear about this person talking about your child and he'd return them if you gave him money and just sitting there and not doing anything?

Uh, in my view, it'd be impossible.

Wouldn't you want to just go and be like, give here papa. Well,

I'd.

And strangle

him. I would've tackled, yeah, it would've happened.

But then he has your kid, you, you can't get him back if you tackle him.

Doesn't matter what happened.

You No,

no. I would've said, you're taking me to the child right now.

Right.

You son of a, yeah,

yeah,

yeah. All right. After the cemetery meeting, preparations move forward. The ransom was set at $50,000, so they were getting the money together. Condon remained. The intermediary instructions were sent, and then they were revised, and then they were delayed, and then they changed.

Location shifted. Each message extended. Even with more uncertainty. It was just a really strange situation. , Through this whole thing, Lindbergh remained directly involved. He was the one that was reviewing the communications approving plans, and basically telling the investigators what to do. It's really quite strange.

That would not fly today.

No.

They'd be like, sit your ass down, Charles. Sit outta the way. Yeah. What are you doing, bud? On the night of April 2nd, the ransom was delivered according to the kidnapper's instructions. Conden made the exchange. Lindbergh waited nearby. The money changed hands. A receipt was given for the money.

I always

won a receipt for my

ation. The kidnappers gave a receipt for $50,000. Bizarre. And then the directions to the child were promised to follow. So they left without a kid. They handed over the money, no kid. And guess what happened? Days passed. No instructions were received. No further letters arrived.

Communication disappeared. Yeah. Yep. Yep. So more than 10 weeks after the ransom pavement, the case had stalled 10 weeks after the ransom payment. Nothing.

Yeah.

This would be absolutely heartbreaking. I cannot imagine as parents what they were even going through. I mean, the money at this point, they don't even care.

They have the money,

right?

On the afternoon of May 12th, a truck driver pulled off of a rural road near Hopewell Township. That's where they lived. Remember roughly four miles from the Lindbergh home in the woods nearby. He noticed what appeared to be human remains, so he got back in his truck and hauled tail to the nearest phone and called the authorities.

Police confirmed the remains were those of a young child. The body was badly decomposed and partially concealed by brush. The location suggested that the child never got very far from the home. It was only four miles, and, uh, identification was made through clothing, physical characteristics, and known medical features.

The child was confirmed to be Charles Augustus Lindbergh Jr.

I don't like that. Let's. Yep. When authorities examine the site, where the remains were found, the most significant detail was the location. It was not deep in the wilderness. It was not far from the original crime scene. It lay in a wooded area, roughly four miles, close enough to the road for a vehicle to stop.

But not far enough to avoid notice, like they didn't even try.

Right.

It looked like they just

pretty much just out the door. Exactly right.

Yeah. Yeah. That's terrible. , the remains were badly deep, composed, limiting, precise conclusions. However, the condition of the body indicated prolonged exposure to the elements.

Right. There was no evidence of extended captivity.

Right.

Shelter.

Right. Took 'em in. I was gonna say, it sounds horrible. Took him and immediately disposed of him, tossed him, whatever you wanna say he,

yes.

Yeah. Right.

Well there's more.

Oh, great.

I'm so sorry. The most critical finding is that the baby had a fractured skull.

Okay.

Okay. Medical examination determined the injury was fatal. , While the exact timing could not be established, investigators believe it, likely it occurred very early, possibly most likely that very night of the kidnapping.

Sure, sure.

There were no signs of healing and no indication of survival after the trauma.

There is no evidence at the site suggesting a prolonged struggle or later movement. No additional items tied conclusively to the crime scene were recovered. The location appeared to be a disposal site. Right, right. Um. So all of this show of the cemetery, the meeting, the communications, the payment, uh, this is, this was all just a farce.

Yep.

I don't like that.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yep. So, I mean, at the very least, I suppose at least Charles and Anne got some closure from that perspective. At least they knew versus not knowing, but that's just, yeah. When the ransom was paid, much of the ransom was in gold certificates before delivery officials recorded the serial numbers, uh, just as, as one would do. In 1933, the federal government removed gold certificates from circulation. They could no longer be legally spent.

Okay.

Okay. Over the next two years, ransom.

Bills surfaced sporadically in small transactions at gas stations, shops, restaurants, and each was logged and traced. I don't really understand this because legally they shouldn't be spent, but I think businesses were still taking them because it was still a form of payment. 'cause they could turn it into the, to the federal government and get reimbursed for it.

Sure. Right.

Because I think by law, if they discontinue the use of any currency, they, the federal government still has to reimburse for it,

I guess. Yeah.

It just, it shouldn't have been legal tender. These businesses, but it was still being accepted. Offend that strange.

Yeah.

What are you doing?

Sorry. You said legal Tinder.

It's legal Tinder.

Sorry. And when you said it, it just popped in my head outta nowhere.

I was like, what are you looking at me for? Like that. You're being weird.

I'm sorry. I hate when these things, these stupid things pop in my head. Sorry.

All right. So

sorry. Can't be laughing

about

this subject,

right? You are correct.

Alright. Ransom bills are servicing and. At first, there's no pattern to where they're popping up, but a gradually one emerged, an increasing number of bills were being spent in and around New York City, particularly the Bronx. The money was not dispersed nationally. It was circulating locally. Sure. Right.

In September, 1934, a Bronx Gas station attendant received a gold certificate, and he became suspicious. He was like, what's this guy doing with this gold certificate? Okay. He wrote down the customer's license plate number on the bill before turning it over. This is the first direct lead tied to an actual person.

The plate led to Bruno Richard Hopman, a German immigrant and carpenter living in the Bronx. He was married with a young child. On the surface, he appeared normal. He had no connection to the Lindbergh family. Investigators did not arrest him straight away. They began surveillance.

They monitor his movements and tracked his spending. They discovered he had been using gold certificates steadily over time. Not just all at one time, but gradually in a way that seemed like he was just, oh, nothing's happening here. Just buying lettuce with a gold certificate. I dunno. I don't know. So on September 19th, 1934.

Two years later, federal agents arrested Bruno Richard Hoffman, outside of his home in the Bronx. It was very quiet. Investigators had already confirmed the gold certificates matching recorded ransom. Serial numbers were in his possession. A search of his home and garage followed approximately $14,000 of the ransom Money was found, hidden and wrapped.

It had not been laundered or widely dispersed. He had kept it, but remember it started out as $50,000. They only found 14,000 in the home. He offered an explanation for the money. He's like, okay, hold on here, hear me out. I can tell you what happened. He claimed the ransom money belonged to a former business associate, Isador Fish, a German immigrant who had briefly lived with him before fish returned to Germany and then left this box of cash in his care.

It happens.

He said he did not know what it contained and only began spending the money after he learned that Phish had died overseas. Okay, so somebody leaves you a box and they're like, don't look in it. I gotta go to Germany. And he goes to Germany. And then over the years you found out he dies and you're like, this is when you look in the box.

I would've looked in the box immediately. Don't give me a box and tell me not to look in the box. I'm looking in the box. I'm, are you looking in the box? If somebody gives you a box and says, don't look in it, I'm going to Germany,

there's a good chance I'm gonna look in it.

I'm looking in the box. Yeah, just,

yeah, it's good chance.

I'm looking in the box because I wanna know like, is there head in the box,

right?

Is there,

yeah, what's in the box?

What's in the box? I'm, I'm looking in the box and also I'm immediately writing a letter and going, Isador, what'd you get? This all fucking money Anyways, so fish cannot be questioned. He is actually dead.

Right?

There is a man named Isador Fish and he is,

it's a good story if it's not true,

but there's it. This is just weird. I mean, I feel like he just knew a dude that went to Germany and died and he was like, well. That guy gave it to me. I swear

that's why it's a good story.

It is a good story. So Hopman was questioned repeatedly over several days.

He denied involvement in the kidnapping and murder. He was like, look, it's true. I have the cash. He gave me the box, but I don't know what you're talking about. Kidnapping and murder. I did not write any ransom notes. I didn't go to a cemetery. I did not build a ladder.

But his statements changed over time, particularly regarding when he discovered the contents of the box and why he began spending the money. Additionally, language became a central. Discussion point in the case because Hockman spoke English with a strong German accent and his written English contained grammatical errors.

Sure,

sure.

Remember we talked about the ransom letter filled with grammatical errors

and the German accent in the, uh, cemetery?

In this cemetery. You are correct. Prosecutors later argued that these patterns resembled the spelling and phrasing in the ransom notes. Handwriting experts were brought in. Some testified that his handwriting matched others disagreed.

Now, to be fair, handwriting analysis was still pretty baby at this point in time. So, and even today it is not an exact science. It takes, it involves a lot of subjectivity. Right, right. All right, so let's just bear that in mind. The case moved at this point from. Investigation to prosecution. They're like, book him Dano.

Dano hadn't even existed yet before in this time period, but we're gonna book that motherfucker. All right? What had become a national mystery was now centered on this single defendant. And the public attention shifted to a new question. Whether the evidence pointed clearly, clearly to guilt, or was it pressure to get the nearest suspect?

And let's be clear, okay, if you are an immigrant, a German immigrant in New York City in 1932, you're guilty motherfucker.

Yeah. Okay.

Okay,

got it.

You know you are, I'm not German or guilty of kidnapping. So the trial of Bruno Richard Hopman began on January 2nd, 1935, which is just a few short months after this.

I would like to point out, this is a really quick gathering of

mm-hmm.

Prosecutorial details. That's what I've gotta tell you. Look, this is not an ordinary trial. You gotta believe this thing turned into a phenomenon from the very beginning. You know, it did. This small town was overwhelmed. This is in Flemington, New Jersey.

Do you know where that is?

New Jersey,

exactly. Nobody does, but it's a small town and they're having a trial, and it's gonna be the trial of the fricking century at this point. All the trials are. So reporters arrived from across the country. Spectators crowded the streets. Newspapers obviously labeled it the trial of the century.

Hoffman pleaded not guilty. He was charged with first degree murder on the theory that the kidnapping resulted in baby Charles's death from the onset. The case carried way more than just legal weight. The public demanded resolution they wanted justice for baby Charles. Alright, so this courtroom is operating under some serious national scrutiny.

Okay,

Kyla worked up my, my blood pressure's high. Get upset when I talk about the press.

We're ready for the prosecution's case. The prosecution framed its arguments as a convergence of evidence than rather than a single decisive act. The center is the ransom money. That's the evidence right there.

They showed that Hoffman possessed a substantial portion of the Lindbergh ransom identified through recorded serial numbers. This is hard evidence. People, they argued there is no credible, innocent explanation for the fact that he had the money. Okay? Okay. Next came The ladder expert witnesses testified that the ladder found beneath the window had been constructed in a way consistent with Hoffman's carpentry skills.

One board they claimed matched wood missing from his attic. The ladder was presented as a physical link between Homan and the crime scene. Handwriting analysis formed another pillar. Multiple experts testified that Hoffman's handwriting matched the ransom note. Enlarged samples were shown to the jury, spelling errors, phrasing in the notes compared to his written English.

The prosecution argued that the similarities were deliberate, not coincidental. Finally, witnesses identified hoptman as the man involved in ransom related interactions, including the cemetery meeting. So I guess they got John Conden on the on the stand, and John Conden was that cemetery. John, obviously the prosecution is like it.

This is your guy. Yeah. Obviously he's German. Look at him sitting there being all German and shit. He did it. Now the defense argued the opposite. This case is built on inference rather than proof. Hopton did not testify on his own behalf, which is probably smart because they tell you if you're. In the defense position, you should not testify on your own behalf.

They almost always tell you not to do that. I'm just telling you what crime shows tell me. They say don't do it. That's what I would do. But anyways, his attorneys focused on the money. Okay, sure. He had the money, he possessed it. There is no doubt about this. Now, this is certainly suspicious, and I'll tell you that that's true, but Isador Fish, he gave him the money.

He told him not to look in the box. He moved to Germany without money. That's weird. And then he died. And then Hopman was like, well, I got money. It's probably fine. So Fish's death made this story really difficult to verify, but he died. Facts. All right, so the defense also challenged the handwriting evidence, emphasizing disagreement among experts in the absence of any standardized methods.

Now, this is pretty smart because it's subjective. Like I said, they also disputed the latter testimony, arguing that its construction was crude and not uniquely identifiable. It was just a couple boards tapped together, like that's not like anybody can build a ladder with some hammer and some nails, obviously.

And they also claimed that they claimed that the wood matching some from his attic was just ridiculous. Ridiculous, like oak silk. I think today you could do a test that says whether it's the same wood or not.

Yeah. If you went to his attic and you saw not just shape, you know, cut out of your wood, that was shaping Oh

shit.

Shit.

Yeah.

This adds up,

obviously. So their underlying argument was the broader point. The investigation unfolded under pressure. The police needed to arrest somebody because frankly, this is the most famous man in the world. His child would, was kidnapped and murdered. Obviously we gotta handle this and they gotta get somebody as soon as possible.

And who better to profile than a fricking German immigrant?

Okay.

It was 1932.

Mm-hmm.

Alright. And through this entire. Court case, Charles Lindbergh's presence cast a shadow over the entire proceedings. His testimony drew intense attention. There was so much emotional weight tied to this case.

Newspapers were there reporting daily, and the crowded courtroom was tense. Objections were frequent. At times it felt less like a clinical examination of evidence and more like a national event unfolding in real time. It had to have just been just a nightmare for these poor people that lost their child, ugh.

But on February 13th, 1935, after weeks of testimony, the jury returned a verdict. Bruno Hopman was convicted of first degree murder and sentenced to death. Appeals followed, none succeeded. And on. April 3rd, 1936, he was executed in the electric chair. I would like to point out that that was only a little over a year after he was convicted, he was executed.

That's not like today.

No.

Today you can be on death row for 30 years. Don't

even get me started.

I know. I still say I don't know if I believe in the death penalty or not.

That's fine. Either have it or don't. But don't put somebody, I feel like don't, don't put somebody on, uh, death row for 20 plus years.

Yeah, I can see that.

It's a waste of tax money. It's a waste. A lot of things.

So now I would like to, , provide a modern reassessment of the case. This is not my reassessment of the case. This is just expert's, modern reassessment of the case because for nearly a century. The Lindbergh case has been described as solved, and man was convicted and sentenced to death for it, right?

A trial was held, sentence carried out, but underneath all these headlines, I think it remains a little less certain because of a ladder. This ladder built in pieces, a note full of errors. Money resurfaced. Slowly over time, a body found close enough that I think it could suggest haste during the crime.

I'm not saying Bruno Hoffman is or is not the man who climbed that ladder, like I have absolutely no idea. He could have been, he could have panicked. He might have been the person that had all the money, but I think that the truth is a little bit narrower a homemade ladder suggests one person was carrying this equip, like I feel like a bunch of people involved would not have a fucking homemade ladder.

Right?

Like that's just a weird piece of it. All

right.

First of all, and then there's the injury to baby Charles. Modern analyst overwhelmingly believed that the skull fracture that he had occurred the night of the kidnapping.

Yeah. And remember the, this homemade ladder, it was unstable. One of the rungs was cracked, and the ladder was in three pieces itself. That suggests that it could have. Broken as whomever was carrying him out of the window. The ladder broke. The fell. Okay. And And they fell.

Sure.

And he died. If the baby did die that night, the ransom letters change.

Meaning immediately. I think they just were like, well, we've asked for a ransom.

Yeah, sure.

Let's just keep going.

Sure.

I don't know about the, lets, maybe it's just one man. This feels like a very complex crime for one person to kidnap the most famous man in the world to kidnap his child.

Yeah.

For one person to do it.

That seems bonkers. That seems like, man, you've got some cajones to do something like that. I think that's the first time I've ever used the word kas, maybe. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, I think there's a lot to be said about the court case because they didn't have forensics like we do today. I will say that handwriting analysis is still used today.

I think it's advanced significantly today than it has, um, than it was in 1932. It certainly, you could use, uh, microscopes and, and things like that to show they, even handwriting analysis even involves how hard you press down on the paper, like, like all kinds of things. So it's certainly progressed and it's, it's, but it's still subjective and I think that this all hinges, this case hinges on the ransom money being in his possession.

So I don't have any theories. I mean, I was gonna say this theory are either he did it or he didn't do it right. I mean, what do you think? You think he did it? I think.

I

think he did it.

Yeah. Me too.

Yeah.

Yeah, he did it.

I think he probably did it, but I don't think he did it alone.

I think it's really, it would be really bold and really almost insane to kidnap the most famous man in America's kid.

Sure.

With a homemade ladder nonetheless. What the fuck? I got my ladder off the internet. I had an eight foot ladder delivered to my house. Let me tell you, the delivery person was not impressed.

It was this, it was a woman that dropped off the ladder and she was like, who? As she was like carried it up,

the damn thing weighed nothing.

She went to the back of the house and she was carrying it up the steps. You're just like, who?

Oh, Jesus damn thing weighs nothing.

It's aluminum.

Right.

But anyways, I think he probably did it.

But you know, the Isador fish is kind of interesting because he went back to Germany and he died. Now we know he died in Germany.

Okay.

We know that, that that Hopman didn't get rid of him unless Hopman went to Germany to get rid of Isidor fish. But we don't have any proof of that. Okay. I think he did it.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm gonna stare at you awkwardly.

Yeah, I don't really have any where else. So what do you think?

I, I was gonna, I have this really beautiful exit interview written, but it's dumb.

Okay.

I get excited when I research

this was coming. You, you, you told a story today. What? You know, something new, something. Nobody. Well, nobody, I didn't mean that. Something a few, you know, several people including myself, knew about.

I didn't know about it. Did you know about it? You didn't know about it?

I knew about it.

You knew about it?

Yeah. Yeah. So that's the story. I feel really bad. You know, Charles and Anne didn't deserve that. Now I don't appreciate Charles's sense of humor.

That's fine.

That's not cool, man.

You don't appreciate my sense of humor a lot. So

you are not always funny.

Yeah.

I mean, that goes for everybody.

I'm not always funny. I think I'm hilarious, but that doesn't mean I am

all right.

Right. So yeah.

So tell everybody about us. What can they do to follow more of your stories?

Right? So if you are new to the house of six. Join us. Sharing is caring. We all like to share things. I hate to share, but I'll share a podcast, that's for sure. 'cause that's the fun kind of sharing. So like, and subscribe. That's really fun. You can find us on YouTube, TikTok. Except don't watch my tiktoks.

They're terrible.

That's a promo.

It is. It's a good promo. I'll say it every time. Yeah. Because I hate TikTok. I like watching TikTok and doom scrolling. You do do. But I hate uploading to TikTok because I feel like I'm, I'm more funny in long form. That's where the, it's gotta

set in.

It's, yeah, you gotta get to know us and you should, you should leave a comment and say, Hey, get your shit together, sixes.

And we'll be like, okay, thanks. And that's fun. And um, yeah, we drop episodes every Tuesday. 'cause Tuesdays are fun. I like Tuesdays

more than just tacos.

Yeah, we have tacos a lot around here. And I like tacos, so Yeah. You should, um. Thanks. Stay off of bladders. Right. Bye bye. Did you say bye?

Yeah.

Say it again.

Bye.