Clutter isn't just a collection of things; it’s a manifestation of decisions left unmade, and today's guest, Vogue and ELLE Decor-featured home organizer Meaghan Kessman, dives deep into how to tackle that mess head-on. After experiencing a life-altering fire that stripped her of all her possessions, Meaghan has emerged with a fresh perspective on organization—less about aesthetics, more about sanity. In our chat, we explore the emotional weight of clutter and how creating simple systems can genuinely change our daily lives. Plus, we discuss practical tips for decluttering, including how to get your family on board without turning it into a battlefield. So, whether you’re a seasoned organizer or someone who’s just trying to figure out where to start, we've got you covered with insights that can lead to a more peaceful home and mind.

Takeaways:

1. The journey to decluttering starts with small steps; even donating one bag per week can make a massive difference over time.
2. Understanding that clutter is often a reflection of unmade decisions helps in addressing the emotional weight it carries.
3. Creating a dedicated donation basket can simplify the process of letting go of items that no longer serve you.
4. Embracing one's unique organizational style can lead to a more fulfilling and peaceful living environment.

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Even post fire of losing every single thing I own. I get rid of one bag of stuff a week.

Do you really? What is in that bag? Is it clothes?

Is it, I mean, literally anything? I mean, I think most people in a marriage are two different organizational types. My husband and I are completely different.

I'll give you an example. My husband is really good, but I'm the opposite. I like to procrastinate and wait.

You don't have to wait until you have a whole weekend to do all of it. You don't like something and you pull something off the hanger and you're like, oh, I don't want to wear this. Well, guess what?

If you don't want to wear it today, you probably don't want to wear it next week. Chuck it.

Then you implement the systems to kind of keep everything organized.

The decisions you're making at hour eight are not as good as the ones you were making in the first hour because you're tired and you want it to be over with, which is when people are like, throw it all away. And you don't want to have the regret of throwing it all away.

Trying to help our parents downsize and they have collected things and they don't want to throw things away.

Enjoy some of the memories, like look through some of your old stuff and have a good time with it. If everything's special, nothing's special. So you do have to, like, make those special pieces and keep them and then let the rest go.

Today's guest understands something most people miss. Clutter isn't really about mess. It's about decisions, energy, and overwhelm.

Megan Kessman is a home organization expert and the founder of Megan Kessman Home. She helps people create systems that actually support how they live, not how they wish they lived.

Her work is especially powerful for women in midlife, when life feels fuller, faster, and more layered. And the desire for calm at home isn't about aesthetics, it's about sanity.

In this conversation, we talk about why clutter builds up, why organization feels emotionally loaded, and how creating simple systems can genuinely change how you feel day to day. Before we jump in, if you're listening on your favorite podcast app, take a moment to follow the show, rate it, and leave a quick review.

It makes a real difference and helps more women find the iconic midlife. And if you're watching on YouTube, be sure to subscribe like this episode and drop a comment. I read them and they really help the channel grow.

Let's get into it. Welcome to the iconic Midlife Megan, how are you doing today?

Thank you so much for having me, Roxy. I'm great. How are you?

I'm doing good. I'm doing good. It's been a minute since I've seen you, so I'm excited that we're chatting today.

Me too.

So good. How's life been in the last gosh year? I know it's been a little crazy for you after the Palisades, Right.

We lost our house in the fire, so it's been a crazy year, but we're getting through it, and we're about to start rebuilding, and so everything's going really well, all things considered.

Okay, good, good, good. I'm glad you guys are opening a new chapter now, hopefully for the better.

Yes, I did, like, a deep dive into your Instagram Megan Kessman home, which I'm, like, obsessed with, because I love. Even though I am tr. Traditionally not a super organized person, I love to look at people who are, like, their social media.

It, like, brings me joy because I get so anxious when I am not organized, you know, which is, like, literally always the case.

So, yeah, I was looking at some of the spaces and everything and how clean and fresh and amazing, you know, the places are that you've been putting up. So congratulations on that.

But it's interesting because you also have this other side, like, you were in the corporate world for a long time, you know, and did this, like, pivot and change. So let. Let's talk about that a little bit, because you did that in midlife, which is amazing. So, like, what kind of led to the changing.

Let's give people a little background, too, as to what you were doing before, because that was like a whole other amazing part of your life, you know?

Yes, it was a whole different life. I feel like I was in Digital Media for 20 years prior to this.

I worked the majority of my career at Pandora, the streaming music site, and was one of their early employees, watched them grow, was with them for almost 13 years.

And as the kids got older, I had my kids there, and as they got older, I just noticed that I needed to be around more than I needed to be when they were babies.

And so I started to feel like I need to have a job that's a little bit more flexible and that I can be around for them and pick them up from school and do a lot of different things. But at the same time, we ended up moving to London for three years for my husband's job.

So I didn't work in London at all, which was a fun Little three year vacation for me. But when we got back, I, I, when we got back, I knew I wanted to work. Like, I missed working.

Um, I tried to get more into like traditional companies again. I started to put feelers out and as it turns out, being out of the workforce for four to five years, it, it's hard to get back in.

Um, and so things were, were going fine, but I was like, is this what I really want? And so what I decided to do was really sit and think. What do I really love to do? And I've always loved to organize.

It was even in, you know, digital media. I was using organization to really further my career. And so I thought, you know what, what if I tried to organize for other people?

I organized for myself. I have since I was a child and people had asked me over the years if I would ever organize for them and I was always like, no, no, no.

And I thought, you know what, I'm going to try taking on a few trial clients. So I called a few friends and said, can I come organize for you for free?

I'll do a space and see how you like it and let me see how I feel and then we'll go from there. And so I did a few spaces. I actually really loved it and then just decided to jump.

And so I jumped and sent an email to all my contacts saying, this is what I'm doing. I, I'm available, this is my rate. Here's what you know, I'm up to.

Here's some, here's a sample of what I've done in the past and let's see how this goes.

And people started reaching out and word of mouth and now it's grown into its own business which has been really fun and I'm using what comes naturally to me, which is so exciting. Yeah.

Now because you've been on both sides of it as like an entrepreneur but also working for somebody previously. I mean, do you feel like, do you, do you love this part of it so much more now being your own sort of boss and business person?

Like, are you really loving it?

I do really love it. I miss, I loved my co workers at Pandora. I'm still so close to so many of them.

So I miss going into the office and seeing everyone, but I still keep in touch. But I really like being able to design my own, my own schedule. Like I plot any clients, how, when I can take them.

I'm, you know, I was at my daughter's school this morning. I do this, I've got a client this Afternoon so I can plug and play in a way that I could never when I had a boss.

And then I thought when I was first building this that I really wanted to have a team around me. And what I've discovered over the last. It's been two and a half years since I started this is that I really just like working by myself.

And so I don't bring in assistance to my jobs. I work one on one with clients. I just focus on them, and they work with me really closely on editing what they have.

And I found that organizing someone's space is so intimate, right? You're in people stuff.

It's.

It's very, you know, people want a private experience.

And so what I found that if it's just one on one with me and the client going through their stuff and making decisions on what they're keeping and what they're giving away, it's been. It's great.

And that also leaves me the ability to be very flexible with my time because I'm not trying to coordinate assistance or other people that I'm working with. It's just me. And so I didn't think that's what I was going to want originally.

And so that's what I've decided as I've moved along with this business that I really actually like working just on my own.

So. You know, that's an interesting point you brought up about going into people's intimate spaces.

You know, because you often encounter, you know, like, I'm sure, many different things, but clutter being one of them. Right. So when you're going into a client space and you're seeing clutter, what do you think that is?

Not just, you know, the items that are, you know, around, but what do you think that that is actually about? Like, why are people holding on to things?

I think I read somewhere that clutter is unmade decisions, and I think that that is what it is.

People have so many decisions to make every single day, and I feel like there's just a pileup of decisions that are being that need to be made, and people put it off because they're tired of making decisions. There's so much coming at us at all times.

And I think, you know, people are purchasing things because they think it's going to help them down the road, but all of the excess that's coming in just leaves them so overwhelmed. Um, and then it becomes so overwhelming that it becomes.

People feel a lot of shame with their clutter, which makes me sad every time I go into a client's house. They're like, I'm so embarrassed. And I'm like, don't be embarrassed. Like, this is, this is normal. People have clutter.

Um, but I do think that it's just. Everything's so easy to buy these days. Amazon you can get in two seconds.

And people just accumulate and I think with the promise that their life's going to be easier or this is going to make them feel better, but it actually ends up doing the opposite. And I feel like, doesn't matter if you have all the resources in the world or you have very little.

The stuff is overwhelming and it just, it's universal and it ends up owning you in a way that is not productive.

Yes.

And I love that you brought up the point about decision overload, because I think that that is so true, especially as women in midlife, you know, because a lot of us are business owners or work or have kids or have a partner or, you know, we're just making decisions all the time. And it's one of those things where you're just like, I cannot even think, like anymore to say yes, no.

You know, make a decision on this next thing, you know, and it is, it's easier to sometimes just sh it in the closet and not think about it, you know, And I'm sure the closet is probably one of the main areas that just gets people all the, all the.

Right.

Goes in the closet.

It's true. Right? It's true. And midlife is the time.

It's like my kid, you know, I've got a 15 year old and a 12 year old and they have so much stuff, sports, school stuff. Like, we just have so many things going on. All of us do. And so it just, that's the time to start pairing things back so that you have less decisions.

I don't know about you, but like, sometimes I feel like, especially as I've gotten older, I feel like I either like, don't want to think about it, like, shove it in the closet, or I go into this like insane cleaning frenzy where I'm like, throw everything out. I'm like, throw it all out. You know, And I'm just like, ah. Like, we're so, so fried. We're so fried that we just get to a point right?

Where it's like how, like I can't even look at it anymore, you know?

I know, I know. So what I tell my clients is, and I think this is one of the. A very helpful thing. Keep a basket in your closet. Keep one in the hall.

Closet donation baskets. When you put something on that you don't like, don't wait to give it away.

If you've worn an outfit all day, you don't love it, you don't feel great in it, throw it in the basket, no questions asked. Then I decide either my housekeeper, I leave the basket if she wants to take anything she wants to take, if I want to sell anything to the real real.

If I want to take it to my local thrift shop. But it makes it easier just to put it right in the basket. Like, don't even think twice.

Oh, my God, that's such a good point.

Because what I'll do is I'll take it off, hang it back up in the closet, you know, and it just fits in there until the next time I come across it, you know, and it's like it just accumulates and things in the closet, like, I know. I'm sure a lot of other women feel this way, too. It's like you go through your closet, you can't.

You don't even remember half the stuff that's in there. You know, it's like some things still have price tags on them, like, never been worn, you know, or shoved in the back. So is that like a good.

Is the closet a good place? Like a first starting place point to when you want to, like, lighten the load and get rid of clutter. Is that like an ideal room to start in?

Yes. I think the closet and the kitchen, the garage is usually so overwhelming. I say leave that for a bit until you sort of get the hang of it.

But I think also it's like you really don't. I think what people, like, get mistaken is that you. You don't have to wait until you have a whole weekend to do all of it.

Like, really just do your blouses. And if you don't like something and you pull something off the hanger and you're like, I don't want to wear this. Well, guess what?

If you don't want to wear it today, you probably don't want to wear it next week. Chuck it. Someone else will love it.

And so I think it's about taking those little mini parts of your day just to use 15 minutes to look through those bosses and then stop so that you don't get so overwhelmed by doing more. And then you'll look forward to it because you have 15 minutes. You know, you have 15 minutes. Set a timer. 15 minutes.

I'm going to just declutter this one specific area, and then I'm going to stop for the day, because I think people get overwhelmed and then they quit. And then it gets worse because then you're like, halfway through a clean out.

Nothing's worse than, like, halfway through a clean out and then quitting because then your space is completely disheveled and you're not cleaned up. So it's sort of.

But I think the closet, because that's where we get dressed and that's how we feel about ourselves when we're getting ready and how we feel during the day and what we're wearing.

And so I think that that's a really good place to start, because if you have a calm closet, you can start your day in a little bit more of a calm environment.

I happen to be, like, looking up and seeing my wall right now. We hang my daughter's artwork up, you know, and that is another place where I cannot. I like, there's an emotional attachment to that stuff.

Like, I feel like I cannot throw out a single piece of her artwork because she made it.

Right?

So, like, what.

What would you say for something that has such a high emotional attachment like that to kind of learn how to, you know, prioritize and kind of thin out a bit?

I think there's a couple of ways you can do it. So there is a company called ArtXiv, and you send all of the projects to them. They take digital photographs and put it in a beautiful book.

So you can have a book of all of your child's art, and then you don't have all these papers flying around. But what you can also do is, what I do is I take a bin, and for that school year, they add their stuff to it.

So if they have an art project or they have anything that they want to save, it goes in there. And then at the end of the school year, we go through it and we keep the pieces that really mean something.

And I think once you have a little bit of space between, you know, not just deciding right when it comes home, because right at that moment, it's new, it's something they're so proud of. But by the end of the year, it's like, okay, let's pick 10 to 15 pieces out of here to save in your keepsake box. And then we'll start over next year.

And so it gives them a place to put the. Keep put their projects. But then it also gives you a spot at the end of the year to say, we're going to cull this down.

Let's pick out our favorite pieces, and then we'll put it in your Special box. And then we'll be ready for the next school year, your bins empty again, and we'll start over. And I think it put.

It gives them agency in the process, and it makes them feel special. And it also eliminates. There's a lot of things that have one crayon mark on that you can be like, all right, I can get rid of this totally.

Like the restaurant menus, you know, the kids menus.

Exactly.

Bring home. And you're like, oh, I cannot hold on to this.

But it's like, I was. I was just saying to someone, like, if everything's special, nothing's special.

So you do have to, like, make those special pieces and keep them and then let the rest go.

So how do we reframe that in our minds? To not have that guilt, to not have that crazy emotional attachment when it's, like, something that isn't that significant?

I think. I think we tend to overthink. I see that a lot. People sort of, like, get in their heads about stuff, and I'm like, okay, it has a crayon mark.

You're never going to look at this again. Just toss it and move on.

So I do think that we have to get out of our heads a little bit on that stuff and say, like, okay, this is a beautiful project. I'm going to keep this. This means a lot to me. I also feel like sometimes I've had.

Next to the donation bin, I've had a maybe bin, and then sometimes I put stuff in there. It's like a purgatory for stuff.

But I feel like sometimes you, like, I don't want to make that decision right then, but, you know, it probably should go put it in the purgatory box when you revisit it every time. I will say a couple of times I've pulled things back out of purgatory, but for the most part, 99% of it goes.

But it might give you, if you feel like you hang on to a lot, to put it in a bin that is likely going to find its way to the trash can at some point or a donation. It gives you a little bit of a space between the emotion of it and the reality of whether you want to keep it or not.

Oh, that's a good tactic. Yeah. To kind of keep it in that middle place until you fully decide.

Yeah. If you're someone that really hangs on to something, I'm like, get rid of it. Get rid of it on for the most part, because of just how I am.

But I think if you're not. Put it in a maybe pile. Give yourself some time to think about it and then make the time decision. But it also gets it out of your space.

You want to get it out of your space because especially with clothes, like, if you're seeing a bunch of stuff you don't like or you're unsure of, then it's really still hard to get dressed. It doesn't give you more options. It makes you more paralyzed by the number of options that you have.

And then you end up wearing the same thing over and over again.

Let me ask you this. The things that land in the donation bin, are you allowed to rethink them and take them back out again or once they. They hit the bin, that's it?

No, you can always rethink. I don't think it's, like, so black or white. I. I honestly pulled two things out the other day. I was like, you know what?

I actually think I could use these. So I do think that it does give a space for it to sit for a second. So you're not.

That's also the good thing about cleaning out little by little, instead of doing this massive thing, and you've got trash bags and you're going nuts. And that's when things can kind of leave in a moment of sheer. Like, I want it all out of the house.

And all of a sudden you're like, wait, what did I do with.

So if you do it in smaller chunks and you put it in bins, donation, maybe repair is a good bin to have too, so that it's like a pair of pants doesn't fit, or you need something hemmed or whatever it may be, but it's got a spot. It then allows you just more space and breathing room in your closet or wherever you are.

Yeah, I'm in the process right now of cleaning out my closet, and I have found, like, you're saying to do chunk by chunk, like, section by section. Like, the other day, like, over the weekend, I did shoes. And then before that I did, like, handbags. And then. So. Because if I don't.

And I feel like, oh, my God, I have to do this all in one weekend and, like, get the whole closet done. I get, like, so overwhelmed. You know what I mean? And you're just like, oh, my God, you know, there's so much to do. But I. I totally. Yeah, that.

I think that is one of the most helpful things. Because then if you get, like, little by little, if you put, like the closet, let's say, like, get that to a Good working order.

Then you can start on the other rooms, you know, and then. Right. It becomes like momentum almost.

It does, it does. And it feels rewarding. It doesn't feel. What you don't want to do is fatigue yourself.

So that's why if you keep it in the smaller chunks, you'll continue to do it.

But also if you do an all day edit session, the decisions you're making at hour eight are not as good as the ones you are making in the first hour because you're tired and you want it to be over with, which is when people are like, throw it all away. And you don't want to have the regret of throwing it all away. So don't get yourself into that point of the process.

Cut it off before you get to the tired portion.

How do you not tire? But I guess if you're working on other people's spaces, it's probably different, right?

It's. Yeah, it's definitely tiring. Especially if a day goes eight to ten hours. I'm exhausted. So I do not work every day of the week on site.

I do, you know, but there's a lot of planning that goes into it with putting together proposals and all the product recommendations and measuring and I do all of that beforehand.

So then when I come in to be on site, I've got all of the products with me and they all fit properly because I've done the measurements and all of that. So that actually saves my body in between the on site days to be working on product wrecks and doing different, you know, admin tasks.

Because when you, when I am on site, you know, I'm there eight hours of running around and cleaning things out. You do need a break after that. So I am tired at the end of the day, but a good bath and then I'm back on my feet.

Yes. Maybe a glass of wine, you know.

You know, in a bath and like some good dinner and a TV show and. And I'm good to go.

Yes, absolutely.

And I like that you come in and you will help with the edit and do the organization, but then you implement the systems to kind of keep everything organized. So what does that look like? Like, what are the systems? Is it like color coding? Is it like containers? Like what, what kind of systems are we doing?

It definitely depends on the client.

And I've found that like, and that's why I really like working one on one because I like to work directly with the client and really understand how they live. I don't want to be there just to Rearrange a bunch of things and then make it look pretty in baskets, because that will last for two seconds.

So if I'm really working with someone, I learn how they live, because in the beginning, people were like, well, just do it how you live. And I'm like, but how I live and how you live and how someone else lives is very different. And so I think that, you know, learning how someone lives.

So some people will be like, I want all canisters, and I will definitely keep it up, and I'll refill for the pantry. And then some people will be like, absolutely not. I don't want any of that. I don't want a lot of product, or, I have these baskets. Let's use this.

So every project's very different based on where I feel like the client is going to succeed, succeed with it. So I'm not going to give someone a bunch of canisters to refill their flour and sugar if they don't want to refill their flour and sugar.

So it's really setting them up for success. And some people are like, I really don't care if my hangers match.

And yes, it's prettier for a picture if their hangers match, but if they don't really care, I'm not going to force new hangers on them. So it's. It's really, you know, how what they feel like is going to be really comfortable for them.

What is, like, the trickiest organization job that you've done? Has there been one where it's like, oh, my God, how am I going to do this?

Yeah, there's. I mean, a lot of jobs where there's a ton of stuff. There is always a moment where I'm like, am I going to be able to figure this out?

Always, always, always, always. And I have a momentary heart attack, and then I'm like, okay, no, I can do this. So the thing is, is, like, it can always be broken down. So you can.

The process is always, you take it out, you sort it, you edit, you recontain it, and then you put it away. So in the process, whenever I'm overwhelmed, I think, okay, well, it's all going to come in, out, and then I'm going to sort it.

And once I sort it, we make sense of what is there. And so in that process, it's much easier. And then it becomes like a jigsaw puzzle of which category does this go with?

And so sometimes kitchens can be tricky.

If someone has a ton of different cooking tools, which I cook, but I'm not, like, a big cook, so I'm constantly, like, Google searching, image searching different devices, like, what is this? So that I know which category it goes into. But, yeah, every job has its. Has its intricacies and difficulties, and they're all sort of different.

But I do always have a moment of overwhelm, and then it's. It's always fine. That's good.

It's like, probably like any other job, right? There are moments of overwhelm, and you're like, oh, my God.

You're like, I've got to solve a problem. It's really like just solving a problem and then going from there.

So totally, you know, going back to the kitchen, because I really. As soon as you said that, I was like, oh, my God. The way that cups, like, multiply overnight, like, in the kitchen.

And, like, ideally, should there be, like, a certain set, like a certain number of, let's say, cups, plates, you know, silverware, things that we should have. Is there, like, a good set number or is it, like, just dependent on, you know, your lifestyle? I mean, how do we know when too much is too much?

I think if you have the space and you have a collection of things, there are some people that have enormous spaces.

So I'm like, if you have enormous spaces and you have beautiful sets of china and dishes and glassware and it's organized and you know where to go for each set, great, let's keep it all. But it depends if it's overwhelming to you.

And I have to say, post fire, my husband was saying to me the other night, because we moved to Newport temporarily, when we had nothing, we moved into a house and we were buying, like, one set of dishes, and, like, we just were, like, rebuying everything. And he was like, God, you were the most calm when we lived in that tiny home with hardly anything. And I was like, I know, because it was.

We had one set of dishes and one set of glasses and one. And it does. There is a sense of some simplicity that really is nice, but that's not real life. Once you've collected a bunch of things.

But I will say that less, I think, is more. But if I'm in someone's home and they have all these beautiful things and we can organize them in a way that's very calming, then keep them all.

If you have a bunch of different plastic cups and things like that, like, I'm try to kind of, like, pick your favorite few and then donate the rest because it just becomes so much clutter with the different tops and all the different things and the straws and the straw cleaners, like it's too much. No one needs 30 water bottles you're not gonna use, you know, I mean, think about it. We're washing em right after we use them.

You really need it a couple per person in your house. So for like to go water bottles and then a set or two of glassware. But the reality is people over a lifetime collect much more than that.

But yes, no. And then with the kids too. The kids have all of their own set of everything. You know, it's like everything, right?

It's like all the, the dishes, the cups, like all that kind of stuff. But also their clothes and like toys.

Oh my God.

Toys. Toys help. Like how?

Big baskets.

Yes. How do we do the toys? Like what?

Because it's like, you know, then you have the, the child's like opinion and they don't want to let go of anything, you know. So like, how do we navigate that? Especially with something that is so emotionally tied to them, you know, for them.

Yes, I think a couple things.

So big baskets with tops are always going to be your friends because especially if they have in the stage where they have bigger toys and you want to contain them and you don't want to look at them like big bins, big top, you don't have to look at it. Don't do a lot of clear containers when they're smaller because you don't want to look at the mess that's in the bins.

And you also want to enable them to know, get a rattan like bin so you're not seeing through it.

But also like sometimes I've had where I've done labels for playrooms, but then I've put like a little emoji of what it is or like a little picture of what it is so that the child can put things away. They know how to sort their own toys. So like this is where the Barbies go and this is where. So that's helpful.

But I think when cleaning out, I mean I would clean things out and not tell the kids and keep them somewhere else. And then if they asked for them, I would like, you know, bring back a toy from Purgatory.

But if they never asked about it again and it had been a couple months, I was like, well, out it goes. So. Because a lot of kids don't want to get rid of it.

But what I will say is that the kids that I've worked on their playrooms, a Sometimes it's better when you're not working with. Like, when I'm working with my kids on their stuff, they're like, no, I want to keep that. I want to keep that.

When I work with other kids on their stuff. They are funny. They'll let go of a lot more when they're working with someone that isn't their parent.

But also, kids are really like a clean playroom. It's really. When I've done.

My favorite videos are when I've done a playroom, and then the mom does a surprise, like, does a video of them seeing their new space, and they're like. And so kids actually really like it to be calm and not have so many decisions to make, too.

I think we're all buying our kids so much stuff, and they actually need a lot less stuff. And then they'll play with the stuff that they do have. But I think they get overwhelmed just like we do by the clutter or by too many decisions.

What do I play with? I have so many toys. And so to limit that gives them some calm and to give them some agency around.

This is where we put the Barbies, and this is where we put the Legos. And this is when you clean up. This is how you do it. And it does help them. And I do think they feel empowered by that.

But I do love seeing kids faces when they have a redone playroom because they really like the order. Yeah.

And they were. Yeah, exactly.

It's, like, probably easier for them to, like, digest and take it all in and be able to say, you know, there's my stuffed toys, there's my Barbies, like. Right. Whatever that is.

Exactly, exactly, exactly.

You know, I think, too, a lot of us are in this sort of sandwich generation where we're not only taking care of kids, but we're taking care of our elderly parents as they get older. And part of that. I know a lot of people's parents have downsized, including my parents last or two years ago now, just, you know, downsized.

Moved to a smaller house, but they had lived in their house for 40 years before, so we had to go through. I can't even. Like, it was. It was my sister and I.

Like, we went through all of these things, and it was so overwhelming because I feel like as people get even older, like, you know, our parents age. They just don't want to throw anything away. Like, nothing. Nothing. So I.

So, like, what advice do you give for, for us, especially in midlife, if we're trying to help our parents downsize and they have collected things and they don't want to throw things away. And, you know, there is that also emotional component with them, like, what do we do?

It's tricky. Thankfully, my mom is very minimalist, so she has been cleaning out her house. So I don't.

I will not ever have to deal with that because she is very similar to me. That's good. Grant's. Grant's parents, my husband's parents are actually in the process of downsizing and there is so much stuff.

And so I think it's really hard when you're going from a really big house to a smaller house to really call down what matters to you and what you want to hang on to.

I'm working with a new client, actually, who has a really large house, and I don't think she actually wants to downsize homes, but she's like, it's too much. I've been. I have just too much stuff. So I do think that the, you know, what we've decided.

What I've decided with her is we're going to do five hour sessions so that it doesn't become so overwhelming and we'll just start. We've got a priority list of where she wants to start and how she wants to feel in those spaces, even though we're not moving her to a new house.

But it's really those chunks of time that I think you just don't want to overwhelm the person that's giving things up. Right. Because that's. It's really hard to move on. And, you know, we're all going through it as we go through midlife.

We're in a new stage and it's hard to give away the toys that our kids played with and, and, you know, move on to this new stage where they're teenagers.

And then you think about our parents and all the things that they've collected and maybe they didn't do an edit at Midlife, so they have all of our kid. All stuff from childhood too.

And so I do think if you can do it with your parent, to kind of go through, enjoy some of the memories, like look through some of your old stuff and have a good time with it.

I think would be first and foremost because there are so many magical memories in what they've collected and sort of, you know, I wouldn't rush through it is what I guess I'm trying to say is like, there's so many Memories that they have. And so to honor those memories and sit with them and have them tell you stories about whatever the item is.

And then, you know, I think finding a good home for these things, not making them feel like this is just all gonna go in the garbage. It's. Who can we give this to? There's a bunch, you know, grandmom has all these beautiful clothes that she doesn't wear anymore.

And so we were talked about, like, do you give it to some, you know, a woman's shelter, someone that needs. Is trying to find a job or wants to do different things, is to really be thoughtful around where you give the things.

Because you don't want to take someone's lifetime collection and just kick it to the curb. You want to deal with it respectfully and also make it fun.

Yeah, that's a good point. Now, what if you're getting resistance from your parents?

Like, they don't want to throw it away or they don't want to put, you know, find a new home for something. Then what do you do?

I mean, you can't really force someone to give something away, and you don't want someone to resent you if you're taking their stuff. I mean, I think when it's like, okay, well, if you're not going to give this stuff up, like, what are we giving up?

We're either going to give up the space or we're going to give up the stuff. And so if you're moving into a smaller house than you previously own, like. Like, it's a math problem, right? Like, you can't.

You can't fill the same amount. So I do think it's rationalizing with someone around, like, okay, well, then where is this gonna go in the new space that's much smaller?

Because I'm having a hard time understanding how all of this stuff is gonna fit in this smaller home. And I think that that's the only way you can kind of coach someone, unless you're just dragging their stuff out, which I don't think you want to do.

And maybe over time, they will loosen their resistance. So it might also be something if, you know, your parents are going to be more resistant to it.

It's like starting that process and conversation now little by little, so that they get used to the idea of having to give up their stuff.

That's a good point. Start early, maybe even start the process, like doing something a little bit here and there, right?

Like maybe throwing out a couple things a week or something like that, Right?

Yeah. Build it in let's go through my childhood stuff. Let's go through the stuff that you saved from my childhood.

Maybe I can take some of that stuff for my kids or I would love to review that. And inevitably you'll find tons of stuff that is easily tossable and things will start to flow from there.

And then maybe they'll realize, I think there's also such a, like, oh, I can't get rid of that. And then when they start looking through all the clutter, they're going to be like, why did I say this News clipping from, you know, wherever.

Let it go. So I think if you warm them up with. And. And it doesn't have to feel. It shouldn't feel like a punishment.

What do you think that is with, like, older people? Like, why is there that desire to hold on to things? Is it not the nostalgia of it?

I think it's generational. I think it's. I think it depends on how much someone had growing up.

If they're like, holding you, do you see people that didn't have very much that then hold on for dear life to whatever they do have? I'm sure it's hard. I mean, we know as we're getting older ourselves into midlife, like, you're starting to say goodbye to parts of yourself.

And I think, you know, when you're in your 70s and 80s and onward, it's like you're really saying goodbye to a life that you led.

And so I think that that's really hard to start letting go of those things and coming to terms with the fact that you're in a totally different life stage now and it doesn't require all the things that you used to use. So I, I think it's both. But I do think that, you know, sometimes there's a tendency to, like, hoard or be cheaper with money or. I think it's, it.

It's just media age thing. But it does feel like people get a little bit clingy to their stuff.

Yeah, that's an. Actually an interesting point too, about saying goodbye to chapters of your life. There's probably like a sadness there.

You know, it's like you're letting go of, like, childhood and then, you know, young adulthood and. And on and on. Right.

And so many things have memories and all of the, like, you know, times with your kids and your grandkids and. And all of that.

So I think it's all very emotional, especially around keepsakes and things that, you know, you don't really need to hang on to anymore. But it's hard to say goodbye. So I do think making it feel like it's not like, shame on you for keeping all this. This stuff.

It's like, let's go through it. You're watching. Moving to a new space. I'd love to help you. I love to start with my stuff that I like, all the boxes of my childhood memorabilia.

Let's go through it together. Let's make this fun. And then I think that starts to loosen their resistance.

So what is the filter about? Like, things to keep, things to donate, maybe things to toss? Like, what is that process? Is it like, are you keeping things that make you happy?

Or is it. Are there questions that we should be asking as we're organizing? Like, what does that look like?

It really depends on what the stuff is. I mean, there's some things. I was just with someone that had, like, tax returns for the last, like, 40 years, and she.

She was like, I know I don't need these, but it makes me feel good. And I was like, okay, well, if it makes you feel more comfortable, let's keep them, because you've got the space where we'll just organize them here.

So I do feel like if you've got the space and it really makes you feel good to have a copy of your tax returns, great. But I think that as you start to move along, it's just being more honest with yourself around what you're actually going to use and what you're not.

I mean, there's important documents, of course, to keep. There's. There's photo albums and keepsakes and all of those things.

But I think you know, what you're using, what you're not using, and then, you know. But it really depends on what it is. But there's some things that is like this little doll that I loved, but it's ugly now, and.

And I'm like, keep it then. Like, don't. It shouldn't be a punitive exercise.

It's really about trying to make you feel more calm and centered in your space and not overwhelmed or having any shame around the piles. So it's. It's really just trying to free up decisions for yourself. And if you look at it through that lens, it, I think, feels better.

But there's no real set beyond keeping the obvious. There's no real set, like, rules around what you keep and what you don't.

Okay, and what about for people who are really organized, right? Maybe they have, you know, things down pat, like in their space and their houses and their offices. What kind of mistakes are you seeing them make?

Are there organizational mistakes that even with the most organized of people that you see, as you know, could be wrong?

I see that people don't keep, like, with like, enough so they'll keep, like, some things, some things of that collection here and some over here and some over here. And so really keeping things in one spot, so one category in one spot so that you're not going different directions.

So I feel like a lot of times I see a layout problem where it's like they're going here for one thing and here for another, but they're all sort of related. So I'm like, why don't we put all of this together in one spot so you're only going to one spot.

I see kitchen layout things that I'm like, okay, why are your dishes so far away from your dishwasher? Like, your cutlery drawer should be close to your dishwasher.

So when you're putting things in away, you want to kind of minimize the amount of back and forth that you're doing in your house to sort of conserve energy and make a really smart user flow of your house. So that's what I feel like. People are organized, but they're not really thinking about the flow and where things should be grouped.

They can be really. Every door can be really organized, but if it doesn't really make sense with how they live, then that's.

That's where I feel like I'll come in and make adjustments around flow.

Okay, so when you're saying like, with, like, are you meaning, like, categories of items, are you meaning color coding, are you meaning, you know, like, what. What is. What does like would like mean like with like?

So if you're going to have some kitchen tools, like, in one drawer, and then you're going to have kitchen tools on the other side. Like, kitchen tools need one big drawer with dividers that, like, all of your kitchen tools live together. Like, you want to make a prep area.

You want to make.

You don't want to have things that are, oh, you know, you've got your cheese grater on this side, and you've got your knives and you've got your salad spinner, and, like, things are different directions. You want it. Like, if you're prepping food and you've got an island, you want it right there so that you're prepping.

Like, just making zones in your home is very effective. So it's less like, I like color coding for my clothes.

But I would say that making zones in your home so when I go into like a new home, I say, okay, so how do you cook? Like, is this. Where do you prep to use the island or do you use the other side? Which sink?

Do you.

It's like thinking through where your zones are so that you put together a flow that makes more sense so that you're not doing back and forth. So I would think, like with like kitchen stuff is the. The easiest part. Like glass with glasses. Like, don't have different collections all over.

Like, all your glasses go in one area, all your plates go in one area. Like, keep all your napkins together. Don't have things spread out because then you forget about where things are.

So if everything's in one area, you go to that area for napkins. Whether you're getting an everyday napkin or your beautiful linen napkins that you use when people are coming over.

So the things are just aren't so spread.

And zones really translate to any room of the house. I mean, yeah, right. Zones can be in your living room. Like, it can be in your kitchen, it can be your closet. What does like a living room?

Because we spend so much time in our living rooms. What does a living room, like organized by zone look like?

I mean, in a living room, I think you should, you know, you're going to have obviously your furniture and your TV and maybe a bathroom basket for blankets. I have always, like our games in there. So, like board games are in there. I try to keep a living room free, like the books, of course.

And I like to group books by color just because I think it's a little bit more calming on the eye than having all these different books everywhere. So I try to keep things to a minimum in a living room so that you don't. You can lay on the couch and feel really calm.

If you've got young kids, I think it's great to have baskets again, like a Serena Lily with a top on. It is great because then it doesn't have to be perfect when it's put in the basket, but then it's got a top you don't look at.

It looks nice in your living room.

So I think pairing things down, if you've got a bunch of built ins again, like pairing the books down or doing it by color again so your eye can relax, I think is really good. And then whatever else you do in there, I think for me it's board games sometimes I've in the past kept extra decor items.

So like, you know, anything from frames to candles to whatever, depending on whatever the drawer or Cabinet space I have, but I think the, the less, the less, the better type in there just because you want to relax. Yes.

You don't want to be like overloaded the second you sat down.

No, you want to be relaxed in there. So try to get things out of there. But if you do have to have storage in there, try to have it contained so you're not looking at it.

Are you a fan of these furniture pieces that have like storage built in, like these, like benches for example, that go up and you can like put things in there or you know, things underneath, like a table or, you know, are you a fan of those types of like pieces?

I'm not. Only because I think people forget and then stuff lives in there for eternity and no one remembers to look in the bench the only time.

I think it's great to have something like that. I mean, great. If you don't have a lot of space and you actually do use it, then awesome.

But what I've seen is that people put stuff in it and then forget and are like, oh my gosh, I forgot I had, you know, XYZ on this bench.

I do think if there's stuff that you are going to use all the time and you're not going to forget that you have it in the bench or whatever the piece of furniture may be, the ottoman, then great.

But if it's something that you're going to store there, you would, you'll never see it again because you put it in there and then you forget and it's in an ottoman and you put a book and a tray on top. And then oh my gosh, 10 years later you're like, oh, I had no idea. I had. Whatever it is.

Totally.

So I think people forget. So it's like. And when people don't have a lot of space, I'm like, okay, so we're going to have to move a category out of here.

Like in a kitchen, if you don't have enough space, move something out in a category. So maybe it's your something you use once a year, it's your turkey roaster that's really big.

But you're not going to forget at Thanksgiving that you need your turkey roaster. So move that.

But if it's like a one off piece that you don't really think about very often or you have no reason to remember, if you put that elsewhere, you're never going to remember it. So really only moving things out from the main area, like from your closet, if you don't have room for your Ski stuff, put it somewhere else.

And your ski stuff, you're not going to forget. The next time you ski, you'll remember that it's there. But if you put a bunch of dresses that you can't fit, you won't go look for it.

So you have to give yourself a reason to go out and look for the satellite, if you will, of whatever that item is.

And what about. Because so many of us work from home now, so we have home offices, right?

And I noticed that like my husband and I actually we both work from home, we both have our own businesses.

So I notice that like, we'll start maybe working in one room and then we'll kind of migrate to another room and take some papers and, you know, the computers and it's like it just like things get messy. So like, how do we control like the, the things from getting out of control when we're working from home?

I think it's, you know, we, we do the same. My husband works from home as well. We both have our own businesses, so we do the same. Right. We like migrate to different spaces.

Sometimes you just need to change scenery. Totally makes sense.

I think at the end of the day, at the work day, you have to almost feel like you're in actual office and you need to tidy up your desk.

If you've moved papers to the kitchen table, if you've moved them somewhere else, like pick that stuff up, get yourself reset in your office like you would if you were at a bigger company. Like, I used to reset my desk every day at Pandora before I left for like, kind of get myself organized for the next day.

And I think that that is something that is very helpful in the home in general is sort of reset your space, your office before you leave it at night. Even if you're in the home and you're home at night, do a 15 minute sweep of clutter, putting dishes in the dishwasher, poofing a pillow.

Like 15 minutes of just, I'm gonna set a timer, do 15 minutes, I'm gonna put a podcast in. And 15 minutes later, so much is cleaned up and I feel better going to bed. I wake up to a house that has been reset and I'm ready to start the day.

So I do think that reset is really necessary.

And I think that the blur between home and work when you're working from home is really hard because you can leave at a moment's notice and go to your kitchen and do whatever you want. So at the end of your workday to really say, I'M going to consciously sort of tidy this area up so that I'm ready for tomorrow.

Helps sort of corral that.

Yeah, and that's a good point. You wake up and you have a fresh space, you know, it looks like. Right. And it puts you in a good head space for the work day, right?

It does, yes.

So how often should we be doing a home edit? Like, how often should we be, let's say like cleaning out our closets or, you know, cleaning out the kitchen?

Like, should we be, should it be like a yearly thing or is it like more often? Like, how often should we just be taking an audit and like really thinning things out?

I. You're not going to love this out this answer, but I feel like you should be doing it. I think that. I knew you were going to say that.

Every day.

Every day. I think that if you are using something in your kitchen and you're like, God, I've always hated this bowl.

Put it in the bed, put it in the basket, get rid of it.

Like, don't wait, don't say, I'm going to get to this edit down the road because once you do, it's going to be so overwhelming, you're going to hate yourself. So if you are in the kitchen and you are like, I have always hated this mug, I am going to go put it in the basket. Put it in the basket.

I have a basket downstairs, I have a basket upstairs. Put it in there. I get rid of, even post fire, of losing every single thing I own. I get rid of one bag of stuff a week.

Do you really? What, what is in that bag? Is it clothes?

I mean, literally anything, like, something could cut it's clothes. It's. I mean, something someone gave me that I'm not going to use. It's a book. It's like it can really. It just depends.

So I think that if you're doing it in real time, you start to relieve the clutter. But you can do bigger edits, of course. And what I do with my kids, because they watch me scan their room and they're like, oh God.

They're like, what's she gonna take?

I'm like, don't stand still. So I go through and I'm like, okay. And I'll. And I will say to my son who's like, oh God. I'm like, okay, give me 20 minutes. 20 minutes.

And we're gonna play yes, no. And he's like, okay, so yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. And we just go through and Then I just take the stuff. I don't fold it up.

I don't do anything. I try to get out of his space as fast as possible.

I take all of it still on the hanger that he told me I can get rid of and I just take it out to the hole and then I put it and then I sort it. But like, that doesn't fatigue him. He doesn't. He can just sit on his bed while I do yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. And then I take it out.

So I think when people overthink like that, I'm going to do this annual edit and I'm going to do. It just. It just becomes a dreaded thing.

Whereas if you're in your child's room and you find like, you know, leggings from when they were three years old, which I find when I'm going clients stuff a lot. I'm like, this child is 12 and these leggings are from when they were 4. You don't need to ask your daughter or your son, just take them up.

They don't even care.

That's.

That's actually a great point because you're right that their clothes, like their kids, their baby clothes, like baby shoes, baby clothes, you know, it just. Oh, my God. Yeah. You just have to literally go through and just weed it out.

And I like what you're saying about getting the kids involved, because I do think that that's also important, right? To kind of when. I mean, when it's something like that, like you're saying like the.

The baby clothes and you can do that on your own, but just to instill in them, like a sense of organization and to take pride in their things. Like, what are some good tips for that to get them excited about being organized. Like, how do we get them involved?

Depends on the kid. I know some kids that are very into it. My daughter kind of gets. Goes and fits and starts.

She gets more motivated around her birthday and Christmas when I'm like, well, you need to clean out to make room for new things. Then she'll get motivated. So that is a helper of like the one in, one out or we're coming up on a big holiday, let's get this cleared out.

I do think making it manageable and not making it so. So taxing on them because most of the time they're not going to want to do it.

So I think if you can say, like, I'm going to make this really easy on you, you can sit in your bed, we're going to Go through this and then look at how nice this is. And I, it's crazy. They do actually really like it. Even my son, who dreads it when I do the scan of the room.

I always like go in his room and tidy up and he'll be. And when I don't now he's like, were you at a client's today?

Like, if I haven't been in this room, because he really likes that, I like go in and like, you know, make it nice for him because they want to be in a nice space. So he's, you know, it's hard because they don't. Most of the kids don't want to be involved. Some do. Some really do.

And if you have that kid, God bless you. I don't have kids. They like their nice, they like their spaces nice. But they aren't like, like, let's clean out.

Like I was as a child, I was cleaning out all the time, self motivated. I couldn't be sent to my room because I would rearrange and edit. So like, I love to get rid of things. Yes.

It like gives you a sense of peace probably, right?

It gives me a high. I'm like, oh, it's like clear, less overwhelm. Who. It's a real, it's a real drug for me. So I'm like, what else can you get rid of?

Most people don't feel that way. So you kind of have to coax kids into that if they don't feel that way.

And what if our partners are different in their organizational skills, right? Like, what if it's like a husband and wife and like one super organized and the other one's messy. Like, I'll give you an example.

In our house, my husband is really good about thinning out his closet all the time.

Like he'll take two or three shirts out, take him to Goodwill or you know, put him in like a thing for like the real real or what, Whatever it is, he will do that. But I'm the opposite. I like to procrastinate and wait and like wait till that one big edit where I get so overwhelmed.

It's like, so what if what exactly. And I'm like, oh my God, I can't.

So what do we do when it's like our partners and we're like two totally different, like organizations, organizational types.

I mean, I think most people in a marriage are two different organizational types. My husband and I are completely different and I like it obviously very organized. So I.

Because it's me who wants it to be like, that I really am the one that takes that on to keep things really organized, because it matters to me. It doesn't matter to him.

I try to separate our spaces as much as I can so that we each have, like, we each have a closet that's our own, so we're not in each other's spaces. That way we don't share an office, so we don't cross that way. I just went into his office and was like, how are you living like this?

I will take care of it. This weekend I was. I did a scan of, like, oh, boy. So it happens. But it's like, some of it, he's like, I need to be able to be me, too.

And, like, not feel like everything has to be perfect. So I have to also honor that. He doesn't want it to be psychotic. Like, I want it to be. So I own this. The main spaces of keeping them tidy.

And I take that on myself because I know I want it cleaner than the average person. But he's adapted to me, and, like, has figured out ways in which he can come more to the middle.

And then I've tried to become more accepting of clutter in his personal areas. So it. Because it's really hard. And most of the time, two people in a marriage or a partnership are not the same. They're usually totally different.

And so when we are rebuilding our home, our contractor kept being like, no, we need one big closet. I'm like, I. We have to have our own closet.

Like, and even when we had in the old house, like, he moved his closet into his office because I was like, we need our own spaces. And you can be you and I can be me.

So I think it's not about trying to change the other one, but if you have the space or a way to separate things a little bit, that helps.

Yeah, no, that's a good point. You're like, let them be, but let them be in their own space.

Yes, yes. Just don't be like that in my closet, because I will.

So what for the women and men who are listening out there today or watching us, what are three organizational tips that you can give them that they could implement, like, today? Like, they can do these three things, and it will give them, like, maybe a sense of peace, sense of organization. Like, what can they do today?

There's a couple things. So the donation bin. Start that today. That's very easy to put a basket out and start doing that. That's my number one thing.

The reset, like I said, is another one. The third one the reset of like the 15 minute reset before you go to bed. And I also do a 15 minute reset when I wake up.

So when I wake up, I turn some lights on. Like, you know, I turn a few lamps on, I might light a candle.

I kind of like get the space set for the day and it gives me a sense of calm to not just like hit the ground running to have like a moment in the house. Maybe I'm like fluffing a pillow that someone had been laying on the couch the night before. So, like it's a clean slate in the morning.

So I think that 15 minutes in the morning, 15 minutes at night is a great thing if you have it. It's sometimes hard to fit that in. I understand. So maybe it's just one a day that you're doing a quick 15 minutes.

I would say also, like entertain yourself while you're doing it. Put in a, put in a podcast. Like I never do this, like without entertainment. Like I always have.

I'm always listening to something and then it makes it a really pleasant process. But when I was thinking about this podcast, I was thinking like, what do I do that I feel like really helps me stay on track.

And I think that our mental loads are so heavy, especially women our age, right? They're so heavy. We're thinking about all these different things that we have to do.

We've got school stuff, job stuff, stuff with our partners, house stuff. And so I've been thinking about how to manage that mental load for years because I just.

It's really something that bothers me when I feel like I'm overwhelmed with how many things I I have to remember. So I've done, which I can show you, I've done this to do list which I break and I don't even know if you can see it, but I break it by categories.

So it has my personal to do stuff for the house, my admin stuff for my business and social media. I've got. Then I have clients and what each stage of whatever my clients are at. So some things on the list are pending.

So this is a master list that lives on Google Docs. It's a rolling list. So it's always constantly being updated. But what I dump in there is by category is everything that I need to do.

This list does not get done every day. Some of this stuff on the list will be there for a month. But I don't have to think about it, I don't have to remove remember it.

So it's here and I will Write pending, awaiting answer, whatever it is under the client, like sent, sent dates, awaiting response so that I then don't have to think about that anymore. Because I think we're constantly like, did I hear back from that person to that person? Did we send for that? Did we do.

And so, because I've got it on Google Docs, I do it on my computer, I've got it on my phone, I print it once a week, I write on it and then I update it. Um, and then from there. And this is where it's sort of psychotic in thought, but it's really good.

We love Psycho.

It's Psycho, but it works. Um, I had. I used to have a co worker who would say, if you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there.

And I think that that is so true with our days.

We wake up and we react to whatever fires are going on, and we don't really get things done because we're just constantly like, fighting fires and then, you know, moving on to the next activity. And so I put together every day on a little piece of paper, an index piece. Okay, Thursday, alarms going off at 6.

I'm going to take care of tidying, working out and showering for my first meeting. I leave for my first meeting at 8:45. My meeting's at 9. I've got this podcast, 11.

And then after this podcast, I know that I've got my list of people that I have to email today. And I get that done and then I go to the next thing, like, okay, no, now I need to leave for this. Now I need to do this. It gives me.

It's my roadmap for the day. And I keep it in my purse. I keep it on my desk and it just.

And then I update my master list that is always constantly going with this, but it gives me. I don't have to think, like, between doing this podcast and going to appliance in a couple hours. Whoa, what should I get done? Oh, I'll just.

Oh, you know what, I'll just like, tidy up that. No, I know I've got five emails that I have to send after this. And it just gives me a sense of calm and shows me every day where I'm going.

It's my roadmaps. I know where I have to be. I look at it.

I know I've got here stuff in my phone, but that doesn't tell you between the transitions of this meeting and this appointment, like the things that you need to get done in that day. So I think if you can make yourself a tiny little roadmap for the day, it is so helpful. You get so much more done than having a big long list.

Yes. And you would do that like in the morning, like of the day, kind of just write it all down and be like, I need to get this done.

What about if we don't get all that we need to get done? Like, and then there's like, like things that are left on the list and then you feel bad about yourself because you didn't get it done.

Well, that's why this master list lives on its own. Because that is like the master list of every single thing that has to get done. And that way you're not feeling bad. Like it's a rolling list.

If it doesn't get done, it doesn't get done. If it gets on here, try to make your roadmap not have a zillion things to do. I know I can get done these five emails today.

I know I have a break between this time and this time and I am going to just write these emails. I'm not going to get sidetracked with my phone and social media and other emails.

I'm going to write these three emails, five emails and then I'm going to go to my next thing. And it just provides, I think it just lightens the mental load of what you have to remember and lightens the amount of decisions you have to make.

And if you don't get something done, like you yesterday, I didn't get something done on my trusty five by seven roadmap and I just didn't check it off the master list and it got added for today and that's okay. Sometimes I circle it so I know to look like, okay, that didn't get done, that can get done tomorrow.

But it prioritizes based on all of our lists are too long, right. And we get overwhelmed by them.

So if you break it down into these tiny little bite sized things that you can actually accomplish, you'll feel so much better. You'll look at the end of the day and be like, wow, I did get done what I needed to get done.

Because I put the priorities for that day on this card so that whatever else happens, I know I need to get these five things done. And it does give you a sense of peace and it does stop you from, am I where I'm supposed to be? Should I be doing something now?

I'm constantly, if I don't have this, I'm like, did I forget something? That's what weighs you down mentally is your brain. It's like too many tabs are open and we're like, you know, it gets heavy. It's like a web browser.

We're trying to keep too many things going at once and then it becomes really heavy. And so if you can lighten it by writing all the things down, you know, you're not going to lose your Google document.

You could lose your notebook, you can lose your little, this piece of paper. But like your Google Doc that has everything in it, you're not going to lose it.

So that way that lives on and then you can make little satellites from there of what your day looks like and it just makes your day so much easier.

So much easier. And like I think the bottom line of all of it is like, don't feel bad about yourself, right? Like, don't internalize if something doesn't happen.

Or like you feel like maybe you've got a messy space or what. Like don't feel bad. There's, there's ways. There's, there's always a way.

There's always a way and it can get done the next day. Nothing. Most things in life are not mission critical. Like things can usually get done a different day.

Um, but sometimes I feel like if I don't get enough during the day, I feel like this mountain is growing bigger and bigger. And so I found that writing the priorities of just the things I need to get done that day breaks it into pieces.

That makes me feel really calm and I think that's.

But yeah, I think people are really hard on themselves and we're all, we're all running around, we're all overburdened, we're all have a million things to do. And so it's managing it in a way that is more calm for you and one that takes just some decisions off your plate.

Yes, 100%. Now turning the tables a little bit on you, my friend. I want to know what advice would you give 25 year old Megan?

What, what does 25 year old Megan look like? First of all, like what is going on with 25 year old Megan?

25 year old Megan was in corporate America stressed over nothing. Yes. I would tell 25 year old Megan to cool it. Like it's gonna be okay. I worried about every single thing all the time.

And I think the gift of, you know, nearly 25 years later, like there is something so amazing about being mid middle age because you're like, it's okay. I'm like so much easier on myself and I worry about so much less. But 25 year old Megan was like really high strung. I think I'm high now. Really high.

This is relaxed Megan.

Totally.

We love it.

See, it comes with age.

It does. It's just like I'm like much more forgiving and I understand. Yeah.

And I, I just used to think like everything was mission critical and now I realize like every meeting wasn't the most important meeting and things aren't going to explode. Not everything is time sensitive. So all of those things, I think with time and age you sort of relax a bit. So I would tell 25 year old to relax.

Totally. You're right. As you get older, priorities and boundaries like become so much more important.

Right.

We learn about the gift of time.

Right?

This is the time. This is the time for it.

This is the time. This is the time.

So what is the most important lesson you've learned in midlife?

That all I think that what I learned, especially being in midlife and losing my home in the fire, is that none of our stuff matters. None of it matters. It really doesn't. And everyone's like, oh my gosh, are you so sad you lost xyz? And I really am not.

And I can say that sincerely that our stuff doesn't matter. It's the people around us. It's our families being safe, it's our friendships. All of that is what matters.

The purse and the shoes and the whatever and all the things that we sort of, you know, buy because we're comparing ourselves to other people and we're wanting to like, have more and more and more and more. It actually means nothing at the end of the day.

So I think that that's what I've learned is important is just family and people and the connections to friends and family is the most important part.

Yeah, that, that, that was such an eye opener. The fire, I mean, like really talk about reprioritizing, right? I mean it just, it makes you take inventory of everything in your life.

Everything, everything, everything.

And then how are you living iconically right now?

Oh, can you give me more definition to me?

Okay. So for example, for me, when I think of like how living what living iconically looks like, being as close to like the true you as possible.

So that, that to me is what iconic. I know to other people it might.

Be different, but I think my business has been that because I've really leaned into what makes me me, which is I've always been this very organized person who's thinking about systems and making things efficient and creating calm And I think part of me used to be almost embarrassed by how organized I was because it was, like, nerdy or whatever. And now I'm just like, this is who I am. I love being organized. I love having this worked out this way. It makes me feel really good.

And I really, like, honor that about myself, that this is how I want to live, this is how I want to feel in my life. And sort of slowing down to get clear on how I want to live and feel is like the biggest part right now.

And I've been really, actually the last couple of months thinking about that. Like, what do I want, really want my days to look like, because they can just tick by so fast. Like, what brings me happiness and brings me calm?

So I think right now and just, you know, doing what I love.

Yeah, no, I think that's great. And you've, you know, you. You took a chance, right?

You left, you know, kind of the corporate world and you started this and it's been so wonderful and amazing and you've really taken off with it, which is such an accomplishment.

What would you say to, let's say a midlife woman at home that might be listening that's like, gosh, I have an idea for something, but, like, I'm either afraid or I don't want to take a chance, or I'm like, held back by something. What would you say to her to kind of, you know, get unstuck?

I would say just do it. Like, jump. There are so many times in my life that I have been really uncomfortable, like, a lot. And I'm just like, just jump.

And that's sometimes all you need. Like, just do what? Do the thing, right?

Like, if you really want to create something and sell it on Etsy, just make one and start a store and sell just one. Like, it was really just. And there were moments in the beginning of starting this, I was like, what if I get no clients? Like, what if.

Especially being self employed, employed, your job to job. And in the beginning I was like, oh. Like, what if no one reaches out? Like, I don't. I never bug people. I ask them to, you know, hire me. So, like, I'm.

It's all word of mouth and so.

But I do think if you just put one foot in front of the other and creating the energy of, like, creating what you want to build, that energy I think is really goes out into the universe and starts it for you.

So I think it's just, just doing it, even if it doesn't look perfect and you'll learn as you go me two and a half years ago, and I'm sure me in two and a half years from now is going to look back and think, oh, my gosh, my business is so different. So, like you, you don't need to have it all worked out day one. You just start.

I look back on certain things that I was doing day one, and I'm like, well out stupid. But that's fine because now I'm where, you know, it's continually.

As long as you continue to iterate and build and one foot in front of the other, like, am I moving the ball forward? And I do ask myself, like, I don't want to be moving the pieces around the papers around my desk. I want to be moving forward. And what am I building?

What do I want it to look like? And I think writing down, like, in my dreams, what would my business look like?

Yes. Because when you put it. When you put pen to paper, you're. That you're on the way. Like, you are going to, you know, get the momentum.

And it is like those baby steps, right? It's like baby steps and they add up. Like, momentum does so much.

Right.

Mentally for you.

Yes, it does. And sometimes I think we don't even know what we want, because sometimes you can say to someone like, what? Well, what do you want?

And they're like, I don't know. And so I think that makes sense because I sometimes. I don't know. And sometimes I've had to sit with my notebook and say, what do I want? What if.

What if I could wave a magic wand? What would my life look like? What would my business look like? Write all of that down and then start working towards that. And I think it.

If you have a. Again, if you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there.

Like, know where you're going and then get on that road, I think is the biggest thing.

Get on that road. That is so true. Well, Megan, you are amazing. What great tips you've given. I'm like, I'm now going to go in my closet and start, like, tackling away.

I'm going to be like, okay, this goes in that basket. This goes in the basket.

Donation real Taylor. Make it fun. Turn on some music. Put on a movie. Oh, sometimes my computer. I put my computer in my closet with a movie on.

Oh, that's a good idea. Oh, okay.

Make it nice.

Yes, make it nice. Right? If you want to have a glass of wine and yes, yes.

Invite your friend. You know what the best is invite your best friend over and try things on. It's the most fun you'll ever have.

It is like that scene from Sex in the City, right?

Like it's the most fun you'll ever have. Yes. Yes. You chub a glass of wine, you try things on. It's the most fast.

Oh, that is so fun. I know. That's a great tip. That's a great tip.

The best friend at it.

Yes, the best friend at it. Hashtag. So if somebody wants to book an appointment, appointment with you, how do they do that and where can they find you?

So you can find me at Negan. Kessman.com is my website and it has an inquiry form. You fill that out and it emails me.

My email is also just Megan, Megan Kessman.com and then my Instagram is at Megan Kmanhome. And my name's spelled very oddly. M E a G, H a N. So just make sure you're spelling it right.

I like the uniqueness.

Yes.

You're one of a kind, my friend.

Oh, thank you. So are you, Roxy.

Oh, thank you, thank you. I've had so much fun with you and everybody listening and watching.

Don't forget to come back on Thursday because Megan and I are gonna have a very fun game episode, Quick fire. She's gonna be answering some fun questions, so you don't wanna miss it.

And if this episode resonated, be sure to rate, comment and follow wherever you listen to your podcasts or on YouTube. Subscribe so more fun people can find this episode and find the show. And I thank you so much, everyone for listening and watching.

Love you guys and thank you, Megan.

Thank you again. It was an honor.

This conversation is such a reminder that organization isn't about perfection. It's about making life easier on yourself. Midlife is busy, it's full, and your home shouldn't feel feel like another thing you're failing at.

If you're listening on your favorite podcast app, please follow the iconic midlife, rate the show and leave a review. And if you know someone who could use a little more calm and a little less chaos, share this episode with her.

And if you're watching on YouTube, subscribe to the channel like the episode and tell me in the comments what resonated most. I'd love to hear from you, because this chapter isn't about doing more, it's about supporting yourself better, and that's iconic.