A timely conversation with NFR pickup man and Pendleton Round-Up chute boss Billy Ward on all things cowboy on the heels of the announcement that Pendleton and Salinas are the inaugural recipients of the Rodeo Legacy Award at the National Rodeo Hall of Fame in OKC. We also share some scoop on major movement, new deals and rules at PRCA HQ.

Howdy, everybody.

Bob Tallman for No Spin Rodeo.

No politics, no BS.

Just hard hitting news,

and rodeo commentary from two of the most trusted sources in our sport.

Kendra Santos, Tommy Joe Lucia.

Listen up.

Here we go.

Well, hello, everybody.

Welcome to No Spin Rodeo.

This is episode 109.

That's 9 episodes after 101 short of 110.

Welcome to No Spin Rodeo, and welcome.

The most famous co-host and podcast history,

the 1st lady of pro rodeo journalism, Kendra Santos.

Hello, Kendra, how are you today?

I'm great, how are you doing?

I'm Peachy.

I'm Peachy.

Been a long week, but.

It's been a good week.

It's been a good week.

So, um, we just, um, we

just finished hosting the PRCA here, in Salt Lake City.

Um, their sponsor summit, and they're

at a committee marketing symposium.

And so I thought it was pretty cool.

I've got, I've got a handful of notes from that that

I'm not sure if I'm supposed to share or not, but what the heck, do you want to hear them?

Sure.

Okay.

So prize money currently this year is up $3000000 total.

That's from the, that's from Tom Glouse.

Do you know, um, do you know what the difference

is in the number of rodeos or?

Well, I, I don't, I didn't write that

down, but if I remember, it was 760

rodeos, but don't hold me to that.

I was just wondering if there, if the prize money's

so much more, is it because there are so many more rodeos or is it because

the rodeos we have are adding more money?

A lot of them are adding more money because they want to get on the playoff.

What I heard, and again, I

hope I heard this, because I didn't write this down, but I think it

takes $260,000 of added money

to be on the playoff tour now.

And there's 60 of those rodeos.

That's incredible.

That's incredible amount of prize money.

Um, and I heard something mentioned there

that I think is really cool.

And that is the goal of all of

this is to try to create a proper middle

class for rodeo athletes.

And that's a really interesting statement there, I think.

Um, I really like that statement because

the guys at the top are doing good.

The guys at the bottom are starving, and we do need to create

opportunities for someone that may

not be in the top 10.

To be making a good living.

And I think we're headed in that direction.

Well, what's interesting is obviously, the guys

who are not in the top 15 are the majority of the membership, so...

Yep.

Well, you got to win, you got to win to make money, but you

can't give everybody a blue ribbon.

The other thing that I thought was interesting is spring of 2029

is when they're forecasting the offices will be moved.

And at the corner of I 25 and I 80 in Cheyenne.

Spring of 2029.

I thought that was a.

That was pretty interesting.

And the one that from a business perspective,

for those of us that are dealing in the business world of rodeo all the time.

The PRCA, you know, they they have their competition

side and they've always had a properties division that's in charge of selling their sponsorships.

Also, their media, as you know, because you have a

history in this, their media, and stuff is all under the properties

division, which is currently being, um, the

director of their, the manager of that is Paul Woody.

And they announced a significant change.

Basically, the PRCA took on.

A partner

in sponsorship sales, and not a little one.

They took on Learfield sports, and you

can Google that if you want.

Learfield represents major universities

across the country, 6 of them, I think, big ones.

UT and things like this.

They have a very big list of sponsors,

sponsorship contacts.

And the guys that talked in this

seminar that I was at are very excited about

representing pro rodeo.

The flip side of that is, it sounds like

7 PRCA staff members will be looking for a new job.

Um, that, that

Learfield will fill.

The caveat on that is those 7 positions,

Learfield will fill them, and

they'll still work in the PRCA office.

And they said that the current employees can apply for

positions, you know, they, they'll be 1st up to be considered for positions.

So Learfield will be managing them and paying them.

They'll be working in the PRCA office and they'll be, um,

partnered with the PRCA on selling sponsorships,

managing media, and things of this sort.

Sounds like PRCA still has complete veto power.

Of everything.

But.

Is, uh, is PRCA media department still a

subset of PRCA properties, which, which, by

the way, we should just say in general terms.

You know, um, the PRCA is

a 501 C3 and PRCA properties has

always been the for-profit arm.

So, for those who don't know that.

So, Yeah, um, I

don't, I guess I don't exactly know the hierarchy.

Um, the hierarchy of everything.

Um, but I do believe that media,

I'm 95% sure that they're still under the properties banner.

And, um, So,

you know, and there's a couple things.

It's gonna be interesting.

The timing seems very interesting.

What a terrible time to do this.

Uh, 3 months before your Super Bowl or the NFR.

Like, I can't think of a worse time to make this big of a transition.

Now maybe there was reasons that they had to do it.

But the timing does not sound great to me.

The 2nd thing is.

You know, sometimes the PRCA struggles

with what they can sell compared to the committee's inventory, and

the national inventory, and there's always arguments about that.

So it's going to be interesting to see if Learfield has clear

directions on what they can or cannot sell.

Um, and how much of that bleeds

into the personal rodeos and the inventory that they think

that they need to sell to make their rodeos work.

So I thought, I thought the, the,

now, Learfield is, they're credible and they're good.

I mean, if they go in and get a credit card company or something,

you could talk about a really major non-endemic

sponsor coming into the sport through Learfield,

and if that happens, that just helps everybody.

So do they work, do they work on a commission basis?

Is that how that works?

I don't I don't know what the deal is.

But they're, they're, they're the exclusive

representation of PRCA.

National PRCA properties now.

So that's, uh...

So existing PRCA sponsors will answer to Learfield now?

I think so.

Now, the PRC made it clear that their legacy

brands and everything that that was clearly discussed.

A question came out and said, well, should should some of

us that have been sponsors for a long time be concerned about

our inventory and the answer was maybe.

So, it's gonna,

just like normal, right?

There's no smooth tides in the PRCA

waters ever, so we'll see.

We'll see.

I mean, look, it's, it's, from a business perspective,

makes a lot of sense.

Timing doesn't make sense to me.

And if they do it like they've done other stuff.

The PRCA and really haven't thought this through.

And documented everything, right, to make sure

that they didn't have conflict.

Then I can see trouble waters ahead.

Oh, just just curious, when you say from a business perspective, it makes sense.

Why just curious why you say that?

Well, just because they have relationships

in a much bigger Rolodex.

And for those of you kids that don't know what a Rolodex is, they

have more numbers in their iPhone that connects to bigger players.

And they they will open the doors for

pro rodeo partnerships that haven't been opened in the past.

That I'm sure of.

And Learfield, they got Texas schools, the guy that

was up there, he had a red, white, and blue sports jacket on,

and a cowboy hat, and it looked like it was a cowboy

hat that he's had for a while, right?

He didn't have, you know, he didn't look like a New York City guy that didn't know what he was doing.

He was a Texan, and he he legitimately

sounded like he loved Pearl Rodeo.

And, you know, if you get a big corporation like that

that has a lot of relationships that actually values our

sport and we'll go out and represent it, that's a good thing.

I just think it's complicated.

There's a lot to it.

And it's not going to be easy.

Now, I don't know that the PRCA is saying that it's gonna be easy.

Um, they just think it's a good idea and they did it.

It's done.

So, did they say,

is this a multi-year deal or did they say?

I did not indicate how long this agreement's for?

But I assume, if I'm Larryfield, I'm not going to

jump in without some kind of a long-term commitment if I'm selling.

But again, I don't, I, I don't, I,

it may be a, a temporary thing.

I don't have any good any good info on that.

The other thing, um, Teton

Ridge and Cowboy Plus presented, I

thought it was good because it sounded like in their presentation.

that they intended to stick around.

Um, They did show

off, they're changing the Cowboy Plus app.

Again.

But the new app is really cool.

Like, it's very interactive.

You can dig down deep into different things.

So look for a new, an update on the Cowboy Plus

app that is has easier

access to much more information, um,

than just, you know, shows on there.

On the, you just, you spoke of 7 layoffs

at the PRCA, have you heard things about, uh,

layoffs at the Cowboy Channel?

as I have.

Yep.

Yeah, I've I know of several people that have lost

their jobs at the Cowboy Channel.

Well, or at Teton Ridge.

On both sides from the not just from the

Cowboy Channel, but on the American rodeo side too.

And so, you know, everybody, everybody wonders,

are they just leaning up and trying to do it right, which is smart?

You can't lose money forever.

And they're losing money.

Um,

Are they prepping it to flip it?

Who knows?

But they're very engaged.

And, um, you know, they they continue

to reinforce the fact that you're not gonna see

every rodeo, um, the linear channel.

Which we've heard, you know, that was a very hard thing

for the Cowboy Channel viewers to get used to was

that everything that was on the app wasn't on the big TV show and

they're going to continue to create shows like Rocker Steiner's.

They've got 2 on the pipes, one's fixing the rollout.

They're going to continue to do that, put the bigger rodeos

on the linear platform and continue to do.

It sounds like varied programming on the linear

channel, and then if you're a, a rodeo.

You know, uh, rodeo nut,

you can get on the app, and,

um, watch everything you want as long as

the quality, they deem the quality of the product is good

enough to be represented.

Well, people like me dump the cowboy.

I dumped the Cowboy Channel from my monthly

package, and I watch things exclusively

on the app now, which, I mean, is really

easy to watch it on your big screen TV or whatever, but, um,

Yeah, but you're different.

You want to see every rodeo, every run.

The non, all the time consumer likes

that other stuff.

It helps tell the stories about cowboys that

you tell all the time on your pages.

Do you, you said that there are 2

of these shows in the pipeline.

They're better before, at least, because there were,

they sent 2 people to my house for 7 hours the other day

working on 4 different projects.

So, you're saying that these,

these shows, like, Hell

on Wheels, or like, they've, you know, announced

that they're going, they're doing like a show on Dean Thompson for another example.

They're they're going to do more of this storytelling.

Is that Correct.

That's the direction.

Yeah, and I think something on Shad Mayfields comeback, stuff like that.

Um, and it's storytelling, and it's good, and it's needed.

It might bore you because you just want to

see what, you know, old Charlie did on his 4th tier.

Don't speak for me.

Well, I'm just saying it might, it might bore you.

I didn't say it would.

It might.

Um, but it is, it is probably targeting

a younger, and a bigger audience,

and the bigger audience that we have, the better off we are, in my opinion.

Well, you're kind of cracking me up because telling stories,

that's what I've done for the last 40 years.

So for you to say that would bore me is like, dude.

Well, that's true.

Fair, fair, fair dish back, I, that's true.

I'm just saying, it amazes me at

the amount of people that would sit and watch rodeo after

rodeo after rodeo after rodeo on Cowboy Channel.

And I love rodeo, but I'm not, I'm not watching 24

hours of 600 rodeos.

Right, but the, you know, it's

kind of like the movie, going to the movie theater or, you know, what's

on television these days is a very low bar.

So...

What else are you gonna watch?

The ring runs?

Or, I mean, no.

And, uh, of course, Las Vegas events,

their presentation, uh, 30

hotel partners, nothing really big

in, um, I would say, big in

their presentation.

I would say that it's life-changing as it relates to the NFR.

You know, they, and I think this has been announced,

but I don't know the icons are Bob Coleman and Fred Whitfield.

you know that?

Um, that was spoke in there.

Which, you know what?

And we need to update people sooner than later on how Bob

Tallman's doing for one.

And, and when it comes to Fred Whitfield, that's,

that's very timely to, um, obviously super well-deserved

eight-time world champ, but, um, Kind

of fun watching, uh,

Fred Whitfield and Cody Oler going to have a match on

October 25th, and to see those guys at

the age they are now, and, you know, they were famous for their head-to-head

battles, and they're, they're both, you know, tying

to the post and running some late at night, early in the morning, and,

You know, Fred, the other day was teaching at, the

horse, at least one of the horses who plans to ride Bonnie,

like, introducing her to, The

2nd loop, if it comes up in the match.

You know, things that today's rodeo horses,

aren't really exposed to.

So, you know, to see those guys.

Energized and they're going to go head to head is pretty fun.

I think that is cool.

Um, You know, interestingly enough, I wanted

to clarify something from the last episode, having lightly

previewed the comments, um, on

our discussion about, um, the

1st guy in a rough stock event being at the at a disadvantage.

I just want to say that I don't disagree

that that may not be the case in a lot.

I think it's probably the case.

However, I still maintain that

if the judges do their job, that should not be the

case, and production should not have to adapt

what's good for the fans because the judges aren't capable.

That's all that's all I'm saying.

I don't disagree that there's a lot of times that they set

the mark on the 1st guy, but, you know, at this, the

flip side of that is, Kendra, we've talked about this.

When one of the blue shirts gets on a bucking horse, he's

probably going to get a few more points than someone else.

It's just true.

Right?

And I don't know how you fix all that, but it's just true.

But I wanted to clarify that.

I'm not saying that it doesn't happen.

Because...

Well, you know, point taken and in your perfect world, but

the fact of the matter, this has, this is not a dig whatsoever

on judges, but they are human beings.

And also, I don't know.

I mean, you know, but it's...

Do the fans have to have the high marked red last?

Do they have to?

No, they don't have to, but again,

um, If you're if

you're great at what you do, you're gonna win, right?

The cream, would you agree that cream rises to the top?

Yes, but do you have to put the do

you have to play rich, get richer, and put the cream at the end?

It's an advantage.

Rich get richer because they're better.

I understand.

So they don't need to be moved to the end to the end.

So we need to figure out a way to make sure that the common

middle of the road writers get a chance at the money.

Everybody deserves a chance at the money.

Yeah, but I can't make them ride any better.

I can't make them beat Stetson.

They're not good enough to.

Anyway, that's not, that's a whole,

We already did this once.

We won't do it again.

Anyway, so I just wanted to clarify that I

don't disagree that it doesn't happen.

I don't think it should happen and I don't think it should matter, and you're

right, in a perfect world.

You know, and interestingly enough, I looked,

we didn't get a bunch of feedback, but while we have a moment, because we do have a special guest coming up.

I wanted to bring up the feedback screen

for those of you guys that want to start sending us some feedback again.

It's no spin rodeo feedback.

You can text us.

We don't know who's texting us.

You can text us your feedback at 817-668-2395

or you can shoot us an email at nospin

feedback at gmail.com.

No spin feedback at gmail.com.

We love it when you guys interact with us.

Um, and tell us what your thoughts are

or what you want us to do some digging on because

we can be pretty good at that.

Well, and to be clear, like when they text, they're not texting one of us.

So if you are in our contacts, it's

going to somebody else and you're not in his contacts.

So, if you want to be anonymous, you can't be.

Absolutely.

So, Kendra, another thing that hit my email,

which I thought was interesting is the 2027 PRCA

bylaw changes.

And as you know, because you've looked

at the rule book, it gets a little bit complicated.

But I don't know if you saw those, but I

was going to get the Cliffnose version because I think it affects a lot of rodeos.

And committees.

And even contestants.

And the big one.

The big one is, you know, they they're rearranging the board

a little bit because there's been a discussion that they, you know, how in

the awards, at the end of the year, they have the big rodeos,

but the big rodeo awards, encapulates,

encompasses, excuse me.

I don't even think encapulates is the word, encompasses.

A 1000000000 rodeos because they

didn't change it, right?

And there's a significant difference now between the

really, really large rodeos and so many rodeos

that are very, very big.

And so they they mixed it around a little bit.

There's 2 on, on the regular board of

directors, there's, there'll be one representative

from the executive council, the committees that's

60 grand and below rodeos and then a 60 grand and above.

So 2 positions on the board there,

and then in their executive council, They've

got a position now for 75,000 added and

above, which I think it could be 200,000 and above, but it doesn't matter.

Um, 75

it's a move the right direction.

The other thing.

Now, wait, wait, wait.

Are you saying that there's an entirely additional,

there's a whole extra committee rep on the board?

I don't think there's an extra one.

I think they redid.

They reshuffled how you qualified for a seat.

I don't think they added a seat.

That's not the way I wrote it.

Now, the other thing is it relates to rodeos and rodeo

committees, and then we'll get into the big one for Cowboys.

Is that if you're starting a new PRCA

rodeo now and you do an application, the

minimum is $2500 added per

event or discipline.

That's the minimum.

Now, There's rodeos out there that currently are less than that.

And they basically, Kendra, have a 3 year window

to get there.

Does that make sense?

If they're adding 1500 now.

They're giving them a pass for

3 years to get to 2500 as the minimum.

So.

Okay, and please tell me that it also says equal

money in the team rapping.

I didn't read that.

I didn't read that.

And but it also doesn't say you have to have breakaway.

So, um,

Here's the thing that I think is interesting, and I'm

interested in your take on this.

If you're gonna have a short go.

In 2027 and beyond.

In the time events, you at least have to have a 2 header.

What say you on that?

Okay, so how did it read before?

It could be one in a shorter?

Is that what you're saying?

It could be one in a short.

Caldwell that's happening now, I'm pretty sure, is one and a short.

Now you have to have, you have to have a two

header, if you're gonna have a short go round.

Who proposed this and why?

is my first question.

I can't say that I actually know

the background of any of that.

I mean, being a time eventer like you are, I would think you might know

why someone would push for that.

But it's, if you're going to have a short go, you can't have a one long,

one long round and then have a short go in

27, you got to have a 2 header and then come out of that.

Does that does that go for for all events?

No, just timed events.

Just time events, just time events.

This doesn't affect rough stock.

No.

Okay, let's let's try to follow up on that.

I'm curious as to who proposed it because

that's going to tell us where this is coming from,

what it's trying to solve.

This is news to me that this is happening.

I've never heard anything about this.

So I don't know what they're trying to do with that.

Yeah, I mean, and it affects several rodeos.

I think Caldwell's won.

There's several rodeos that have one long round and a short go or have traditionally

that we'll have to adjust.

So that's a big deal.

That's a big deal, you know, and.

And I would assume that that means you

either have a lot more cattle and have a lot more slack or

you're able to restrict your

entries, one or the other, right?

I mean, you know what I'm saying?

I mean, if you if you got them, you know.

Okay, and my next question is, what do you do with

the rodeo like, say, Cheyenne?

that has, like, an unusual format.

I, I, I, I'm just reading the approved bylaws

that were, I'm giving you the cliff notes version, and,

and again, I'm not an expert at this.

And I may, we may get corrected,

but I'm telling you the way I read it, and we'll do a follow-up on the next episode.

Well, we'll follow up on this and find out.

If we can see what the motivation was and and stuff.

It's obvious, the motivation for the minimum amount of added money.

Um, the motivation on the committee placement

is that there's so many large rodeos, really

big rodeos, and really big rodeos have

a separate set of problems than even big rodeos.

Does that make sense?

There's just a different

It's a different whole set of things you have to deal with.

And it's very hard for every rodeo

to live in the same set of rules as

another because, whether it's parking or,

you know, what your goals are.

You want everybody in town.

It just, it's just different.

And I think there's an effort to try to adjust that.

It sounds like historically,

we've had small medium large, and it sounds like basically,

Well, but you're saying we're not adding a category,

but it's almost like, do we need a small, medium, large and extra large?

That's what I think.

That's, I mean, I think there's an extra large category out there.

There's just a different level.

Category.

That doesn't mean we should add another committee person to the

board, but that's a whole different conversation.

That's a whole different conversation.

It depends on if that point of view should be considered when

someone's making rules that affect everybody.

Okay, what, what, and, and another

conversation we must have is, Is

it a matter of added money that you get to start having

rules that are not in the rulebook?

It has been in the past.

Is that when we turn a blind eye because

it's enough money or what?

How much power do you have before someone tells you yes?

That's the way the world works, though.

That's the way the world works.

Right?

That's not anything specific to rodeo.

The money, money drives a

lot of things that aren't fair.

We know that.

We both know that.

Doesn't make it right.

Doesn't make it right.

Now, what do you got going?

What's going on in your world?

Your turn.

Well, um, I

think the thing I'm most excited about right now, um, coming

into my 1st year as president of the National Rodeo Hall of Fame

Advisory Board, um, which I just took the reins from

Five-time world champion, Bullfighter

Rob Smith, who's a lifetime friend of mine.

Um, Is is

we at our spring meeting, um, It

was like, well, what are we going to do, you know, to kind of

raise the bar and do something, you know, something where we always want to leave

a lasting mark right behind us.

And so what can we do now?

So a couple things are coming in that direction.

Um, one starting this year, one

starting next year, and the initiative that is starting this year,

is, um, the rodeo

legacy award is is new, and, um, our

board at the National Rodeo Cowboy Hall of Fame,

National Rodeo Hall of Fame.

I get the old National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum.

It's all of, anyway.

Our board is for the National Radio Hall of

Fame in Oklahoma City, and starting this

year, we came up with a new award, and

to recognize rodeos with, with, like, major impact

in tradition and and, you

know, contributions to our history, and, and it's, it's pretty cool.

We we all had a chance to nominate um, rodeos and

we all voted and um, 2 rodeos,

uh, Salinas and Pendleton, who are both, um, coincidentally.

Celebrating their 116th rodeo

this year, are our inaugural rodeo

legacy award winners and will be recognized at Rodeo weekend.

in Oklahoma City, uh, in

November, which, um, sadly

for me, is a, um, is a conflict with the national

final steer roping, which I will, at our November

meeting, beg and plead and see if there's

any way that moving forward, the National Rodeo Hall of Fame does not

have conflicts with world championship events moving forward.

That feels awkward to me, and don't

make me pick between a watching my sunrope and any sort

of celebration of any kind.

Because the rodeo mom is not gonna be denied, okay?

So, anyway, Pendleton and Salinas.

are very, uh,

personal to generations of my family, particularly Salinas,

in my case, it's, or 5 generations in now.

But, but so appreciated is, is the,

it's not easy when the

old ranchers who got all these balls rolling, you

know, die off and are replaced by people, you know, who come from

town, whatever, who are wonderful, and it takes staffs,

and it takes volunteers, and it takes committee people, and all these things, but holding

on to tradition is not easy.

And I, like you and I talk about this a

lot, and I am absolutely in favor of progress when

it makes something better.

But, to me, I hope Salinas

never stops having a 5 hitter on the team roping

or the longest scoreline in rodeo.

You know, things like that.

And Pendleton, you know, coming

down off that hill, onto

that grass, it's, you

know, it's, both of those rodeos are like no other.

And when you are like no other.

Right down to the buckle you give, which

is, you know, iconic in itself, but, but when

committee people hand the

traditions down generation after generation and manage

to hold onto some of those things, it's not always easy, as you know.

And we're always talking about, you know, how

can we make things better, but to not lose sight and

not stop respecting some of the traditions that have made these rodeos,

one of a kind is super cool.

So, heartfelt congratulations to Celine some Pendleton.

And I went to Salinas, um, right before

I was, I joined you guys in Salt Lake City and, uh,

next stop, Pendleton, and I'm looking forward to it.

Those are the greatest rodeos ever, right?

They're just... they're...

They should, if they're not a bucket list rodeo, they should be.

They're so unique, 360.

Like all in all ways around them.

And but that's, but that's why they're,

that's why they are successful.

Right?

They're, they have created a brand and maintain it.

And I think that's fantastic.

And as we know from some other big,

long lasting rodeos with brands.

It's not that easy to change it either.

I mean, it might be easy to make the decision, but

it's not that easy to make the change without taking

a few punches in the mouth.

And.

Well, and some people are going to experiment with different things, but but

there are just some things that are sacred.

And, you know, both guys coming from

the left and the team rapping at Salinas is, it feels sacred.

And what I think is cool about Salinas

and Pendleton, I've, I've had conversations

with guys like Trevor Brazil for years and it's

like, what would be the coolest way to recognize committees?

And of course, little Pollyanna for the Cowboys is always

like, well, what if we did it on who raises

their added money the most?

you know, stuff like that.

But, um, both of us independently came

up with Old school, cool rodeo,

Slams and Pendleton both fit the bill.

So I'm really happy with this being our 1st class.

Well, speaking of Pendleton, we

have just invited into our studio a

longtime friend.

He, I can't tell if he's in a good mood or a bad mood.

I've known him, him and my family have known

each other back when he was much more handsome than

we both are today.

Ladies, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to

episode 109.

A famed cowboy.

I think that's probably what he would, what he would like.

No?

Well, then let me let me finish my intro, then you tell me what I should have said.

Pick up, man, longtime

cowboy, and very respected man in

our business, and we're tying this back to Pendleton, because

we're going to have a discussion about Pendleton.

Welcome to the show, Mr. Billy Ward.

Hello, Billy.

Hello, Tom.

thanks a million.

Appreciate it.

Hi, Miss Kendra.

Hello.

I got to ask, are you like reclined in a recliner right now?

Yeah, I'm sitting in my chair.

Yeah.

It's kind of nice.

air conditioning is on.

You have your feet up too.

I can tell by your body posture.

Yeah, I do.

I'm comfortable.

Glad to help you.

Thank you.

You guys are going to make fun of me.

I can tell

Well, welcome to the show.

Um, we'll, we'll, let's,

um, let's tie the 2 together real

quick and then we'll get into a little bit of your background.

I don't know that you probably didn't

hear our last episode, but Kendra and I had a discussion.

They got pretty a lot of, um, a

lot of conversation after, and that was, she

said, well, do you set your buck order?

Um, to where your good guys are last.

And I said, well, 1st things that we do

at Salt Lake, but we only have 6 shoots.

Now, by the way, Billy, the reason that we're asking, Billy, Billy is

the shoot boss for the Pendleton roundup.

And there's a couple significant differences between Pendleton

and, for instance, the days of 47.

We have 3 rights and 3 lefts.

Billy, how many rights and lefts do you guys have it?

Peddled.

Eight each way.

Eight each way.

So double the amount.

Now, remember, if you're not a big time rodeo guy, the lefts and

rights, or which way the animal exits the shoot.

Um, and and that's what, that's what they get used to.

They buck.

They can be in the front or back all the way up.

But anyway, so the long story short, because we're gonna, we're

gonna find out from an expert.

Because I did get, I did get.

I did get word that Pendleton, so

I'm going to ask the expert who who manages this, that

you guys draw your buck order for your long round.

Is that true?

No.

No, uh, every morning.

Uh, like we have to wait until 11

o'clock, uh, to set the buck order because of lock-ups.

And so, um, I'll sit down with the

primary stock contractor.

Which the last few years, it's been Wade Sankey,

and before that, it was Keith Merrington or whatever.

And so we sat down and those guys pretty much

set the buck order for the day, and most of the

buck order for the day is based on whose

livestock is out every day because it's pretty hard to get around there

at Pendleton, and like there's some shoots

there at Pendleton that don't have flagboards on it.

So, but so what we try to do more than anything is

to set the horses up and the bulls up to where a

guy gets to flank like 3 or 4 of years in a row.

Because there's so many different guys or whatever.

And I, and I mean, we do really, uh,

Have a buck order.

I mean, not a buck order, but you kind of pick and choose a little bit about,

you know, whose horse is going to be the star horse and

who's going to finish, you know, and when you get those good NFR

horses or whatever, you got a good matchup, you try to make that happen.

Not gonna lie.

Okay, okay, on that, can I ask?

So you're basing it on which courses that day

you think will be are the biggest fuckers or are you based on?

are you doing it based on the matchups of who drew the those good horses?

I think you kind of do it both ways there because we tried to,

like, say like, oh, no, say Nance

Boldhouse, or Wayne Boldhouse, like, 5 horses

out in the bareback ride and, you know, the fir or that day or whatever like that.

We try to like buck those and they're saying there's

3 lefts and 2 rights.

You try to start with those 2 lefts

or those 2 rights or whatever like that, then go back

and get those other 3 or whatever.

So that it's easier for those guys because usually

at Pendleton, we still have to have horses that roll in.

Because they usually buck about 20 to 22 a section.

So I can't really say that it would be

based on cowboys or horses.

It just depends on more on the number of the stock contractor

that, that has the animals out that day.

Now, do you think at Pendleton?

That it's a disadvantage to be the 1st gunner out.

Okay, so I started this the

1st year, this was a 2015.

The very 1st bearback rider.

If he nods his head, And the gate

comes open before Wayne Brooks counts down one,

two, three, letter buck, I paid that guy $100 out

of my pocket because I felt that that made the, made

the rodeo start off with a bang and I was taught by a guy that,

man, if you get it going right off the get go, you could have some

lack moments in there and nobody will notice.

And so, and then after a while, when that got gone

a little bit, the committee found out that I was giving them guys a $100 bill

that they nodded, then they started doing it.

And so, I've seen guys be

the 1st gunner, make it back to the short round, and I've seen the last guy too.

You know, I just.

I don't think it really.

I think it just depends on how you want to play the game.

Kendra, follow up on that?

Well, I want to take a step back.

How many times did you pick up the NFR?

Seven.

And how many times did you pick up at Pendleton?

Oh, 15 years.

15 years.

And which year did you retire from picking up?

2014, Pendleton was my last rodeo.

Got you.

Why did you decide to, to,

For Pendleton to be your last one.

Well, I was fortunate enough there that

I had some really good committee contracts.

And that was my last committee contract.

That I had.

And um, they offered it to me and

I'm like, no, and, and then next year, and I'll just tell you, I was crippled.

Like I got 2 new knees the next year and just new

hips and I just couldn't do it anymore and I

wasn't doing the job that I wanted to be getting done to tell you the truth.

And so I just said, Pendleton was it, and

I didn't put in for the NFR that year, nothing because I've

seen too many guys use that for a pity vote, and

that pisses me off, and so, I didn't do it.

And that was the last one I put in for.

I have a question about picking up there, like, My

time event cowboy friends, they, they, they've always told me,

like, the grass at Pendleton is be respected, but not feared.

Is that the case when you're picking up there?

Well, My heart's

not very big, Kendra.

I'm not gonna lie.

That scared me.

It really wasn't my cup of tea if you wanted to

know because I didn't feel like I could ever circle a

horse around or do things that I really wanted.

Gary Rymple's the one that taught me.

He says, Bill just goes straight.

And so that's what Gary Rimple and I kind of did.

I think we might be the only 2 in the whole outfit that hasn't fell down there.

So.

Well, I don't know why.

You don't see bulldoggers or hazing horses.

They go straight and they you don't see them, wreck.

Nope, and I just, and I hate to be that way,

but they just, I don't know.

I just, I don't want nobody to get hurt myself or cowboy

or animal or anything, you know, and like, it was,

and it depended on there, like if Pendleton had a wet, rainy

summer, the grass was really good.

It's not that slick, but if it's

been a dry hot summer, that grass was terrible.

Yep.

Really?

Huh.

Well, now, I know like when there's a misty morning, it's slack,

you know, that can be...

Now, that could be dang slick or if it rains.

Yes, I'll promise you, that's, yep, that's, well, we

all know Mr. Booth, and yeah, there's been lots of bad wrecks, sir, but.

Yeah, and for, you know, that happened now a long time ago,

1995, and Mike Booth

was a, was a good friend.

He rode my brother's horse at the NFR.

He actually was like a neighbor here in my tiny town

at the time that he died, and I, I had just left

the PRCA the 1st time, and I was still living in Colorado.

That day, and I got a call from Ty Murray.

And, um, He, he told me about it.

That's the only Team roper

that I can think of that I've ever known.

I've known, you know, we've all known bull riders who've died in different things,

but, but I mean, it's no...

You know, he broke his leg and then he died.

And so for people who don't remember that, it's, I mean, it has actually happened.

So.

Yeah, that grasshop there, I'm not going to lie.

It's different.

But and but those people up there, like

Pendleton's got such great tradition, you know, and they're trying to make it better and

better all the time, you know, like, I think it was 3 years ago, you know,

they went and put new saw down and stuff like that.

I mean, you can watch them work it.

You know, putting fertilizer down and stuff.

Those guys do a really good job up there.

of making it better all the time, but.

Most of the of the bulls buck on the track in the dirt,

but what about how does the grass impact bucking horses?

Well, in my opinion, if you see those horses,

like, they'll go across that dirt or whatever and a

lot of them, when they hit that grass, they'll stack up right there and just get after it.

And, um, I think

that that happens a lot to those horses.

It kind of scares them a little bit, and they will just

stack up right out there, but.

I don't know, and then some of the bulls, they kind of do it too.

You know, they don't get across there very often, but they will, but.

I don't know, that Pendleton is just a very unique

place and there's not another place like it, obviously,

but I can't imagine when they used to have

used to have the college rodeo there, how that would felt to be at college and rodeo

out there on the grass, but scary enough with.

At the big one, but.

Well, um, so while we're talking about Pendleton.

Reach back in your memories.

Tell us the, tell us a story.

Oh, either, uh, what, uh,

you said, yeah, I ain't gonna lie.

I was a little scared.

Think back at the at the trickiest

situation you were in and tell us about it.

The very 1st year that I went there was like,

it was 911 and well, 911 was Monday

morning of Slack, right?

So anyway, we're there, whatever.

And we got to be sitting there the 1st

day we were picking up, and I think, and I know it was in the Bronx riding

or whatever, like that, and just going along pretty good.

You happen to look up and there's a lot of people that set out in the arena.

You know, and there's a lot of photographers and

and cowboys and stuff, but you kind of know the cowboys and and they know you pretty good.

But I don't know.

Gary Rimples said, don't ever pull up, just run over, run over.

And I wasn't that way and I pulled

up and I, I'm not going to, I did, I tipped the horse over backwards there.

And he was a big gray horse and and

actually that horse was never right after that, you know, and just kind of stifled him.

And so it really wasn't.

And it wasn't like we were going fast or anything.

Like that, it's just one of those scary

moments, but the scariest part to me going

across Pendleton is when you're going across that grass and you're smoking across there.

And you start coming up to that railing up there and

you don't know whether your horse is going to scotch or jump or the bucking horse is either.

You kind of get to sliding and skidding around there and I don't know.

It makes you want to sit down and just kind of lope around there.

My job now is way safer.

I'll put it that way.

Those guys do a great job at pick up there now.

Yeah, they're good hands and they know it.

Know how to handle every situation.

I want to talk about horses because I know that,

uh, I'm guessing that a lot of, at

least headers, maybe people looking for hazen

horses, steer roping horses.

Guys would, because they would talk about it with me all the time.

They would, Basically drool over

your pickup horses, and I don't know how many of them made offers about

it, but they were good, you know, good looking, stout, strong.

How many offers did you get from Cowboys over the years?

Oh, well, that was probably the

proudest moment I think we had.

And I'm going to tell you something.

It was never just me.

It was a family deal.

My wife and my 2 boys, they rode

lots and lots of those horses and I

just kind of got the guy that got the show.

And because when we ranched on them all winter

and tried to make them, but the proudest point you could

have is like, you know, I've sat down at the card table,

Vegas, a turtle pow bought one horse from you in Vegas or

Guy Allen bought one or or

when JD H tells me, you know, I got this horse.

He really doesn't want to be that good at the moment.

Well, you just give.

I'll just give him to you.

I'm like, all right, and then he'll turn around and buy him back.

You know, just little things like that after you've kind

of, And not that we had anything special.

We just use those horses and.

And I mean, they're, yeah, we had lots of nice horses,

but we had a lot of junk too, but probably

the proudest moment that I could tell you that we had, as

a family is, we got to go the final 7 times.

So, and you can take 6 horses.

So that's 42 horses.

But we took 36 different horses.

So there was only 6 of those horses that ever

went more than one time to the NFR and so, but that's

how we made our living, was selling those horses all the time.

And like I say, it was just not me.

It was my wife, and my 2 boys rode lots of them,

and whatever was, we thought was the best, those weeks?

That's what we took.

What makes a, What makes a

good pickup horses?

anything any different than any other kind of using horse?

Well, if they're broke to ride,

you should be able to do anything on them you want to.

There's just some of them that like it.

And some of them that don't.

But I mean, speed's handy.

I'm not going to lie.

Like, I got lots of friends that got lots of fast horses, but I always thought.

The only place I really wanted that, Top,

top end speed would be like Pendleton or Cheyenne,

but for the most part, if your horse had like 2 or 3

quick steps, you know, like when you're in Dodge City or

you've been to all them rodeos, Tommy, I mean, they're not great big arenas,

but if you just had 2 or 3 quick steps and you could beat them and

knew how to use the fence as your friend.

You know, but there was just some horses that were,

that liked it and some of them don't and some of

them you had to make of doing some of them, they just, they did it,

but, I don't know, they just.

We just tried.

And we got into with an outfit there in Laramie, Wyoming.

Actually, their horse sales this weekend is Bath

Brothers horses and Like over the years there, we'd go get it.

We had a little over 203 3 year old colts

that we took from those people and we rode and that's what we picked up on.

Well, Dalton, my oldest boy, and

Denton, both, you know, and so, I don't know if you could really tell.

Well, it makes a good pickup horse or not.

I guess I kind of go back to what Harry Vold said

one time, we were sitting in a golf cart, and I think we were in

Fort Smith, Arkansas, and this reporter come up to Harry,

and he asked him, he said, how do you know if you have a good bucket horse?

And Harry said when I quit putting him on the truck.

And I just...

Wrong, wrung true with me, you know?

Yeah, but you were known, you were known,

I watched, well, I was young when I was younger, but you

were big, you're still big stout,

reach down, grab a guy by the back of his hair and set

him right back up on top.

And there's a difference.

There's a difference in the way guys pick up.

Like, you come riding up.

They better get a hold of you.

Or, or learn a lesson.

And that's just different now.

I'm telling you, they're just different now.

The pickup men or the cowboys.

Well, we'll get into the cowboy story, but both.

But both, well, I, I think the, I think the,

the pickup men have really changed.

In the last 30 years, if you want to know.

I think it, it finally, I hate to say it this way, but

I think if finally became important to everybody.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

Instead of like, I mean, when I 1st started picking up,

there are people like, oh, dude, I got this horse.

You need to pick up on him.

He'll crash you into anything.

I'm like, well, you can have that phone gun.

I don't want to touch that horse.

I want to be right beside him.

you know, I don't want to touch him.

That's just the way I felt about that, and

I was kind of my, my philosophy, and, and

I was very fortunate when I got to get started in it.

I got to learn from some really great cowboys,

guys like Bill Larson and and people like that,

you know, that I learned a lot of

stockmanship and and things like that from that,

that just kind of fit my bill a little bit more than.

And what it did for some other people, I guess,

because at that time, I think those guys were a little

more into like, well, whatever, bucking horse didn't buck, that's what they picked up on.

And I'm not saying that I didn't ride a

few bucking horses and picked up on them.

Some of them I took to the finals and they were damn good horses,

but for the most part, I just was, Like

I say, I maybe didn't have the biggest heart and I just didn't want to crash

nothing and hurt nobody and.

I don't know, just kind of fit my bill a little more.

Is it harder to pick up at the tiny

Thomas and Mac or at a Pendleton roundup?

I pick up.

Thomas Mac all day long.

Pendleton, it's not just for the faint of heart there.

Like, you know, every section, you got to change your horses because you,

they run out of air pretty good, and it's not that they couldn't

handle it to run the whole section at Pendleton, but man,

it just takes so long to cool them off and things like that.

I think that's something a lot of people didn't understand is,

you know, my boys, Marlowe or whatever.

I mean, you run at 7 or 8 Bronx, and then they would

walk those horses for 30 minutes so that, There was

some longevity in those horses instead of just jerking all the

guts out of them every day, and, and every day, but Thomas

and Mac in all honesty, if you could ride your

horse and left hand lead or right hand lead, you can pick up there.

I mean, it's just like, but the

easiest thing in the world too is picking up a bucking horse.

One that bucks can't get away from him.

One that runs, they're hard, you know?

You gotta do a shout out to the pickup chicks.

Oh yeah, the pickup chicks, they're freaking awesome.

That band's kind of disappeared a little bit.

They're all getting agy too.

But yeah, no, the pickup chicks, they were great, you know, but

they because they switched horses out for us and things like

that, but I don't know, like Thomas and Mac, I

don't know, how many Thomas and Max could you put in Pendleton?

Quite a few of them.

Four.

Probably.

Or more.

Probably real easy, you know, that?

I mean, but the NFR is so much different.

Like I say, those horses are bucking.

Man, they don't, you know, and Pendleton,

and I think that that's happened too in the, in the Buckinghorse

world has changed so much.

From them old horses that maybe

had 25 trips a year.

You know, we get down into September there and

after 6 seconds, maybe kind of spit the bit and run off a little bit.

Now these horses are about 10, 12 times and and

they're different kind of caliber of horse, if not saying that.

They bucked any harder than the good horses did

50 years ago by no means.

There's just so many more of them.

Well, we've, we've, we've talked about

the, the pickup horses and beckon horses.

What about pickup men then and now.

What are the most important traits?

To a world-class pickup man.

Is it?

Is it horsemanship?

Is it?

Cowboy, you know?

No, knowing horses?

Is it what is it?

Fearless?

What do you need?

Well, I think you have to have a

round number of everything.

I mean, like, I feel you

have to be a good stockman.

You have to be a good horseman.

It was always very important for me to be able to rope.

I feel that that's a very important job.

Um, but, and I,

and I think the other thing too is you have to have a work ethic.

You know, the best way we ever made pickup horses,

if you really want to know is.

Being at Slack every day all day long for 3

days and riding the dog out of them or whatever like that, you

know, and then when you finally felt comfortable, you snuck them

in somewhere in the bull ride and start roping bulls and kind of

hope that maybe there's a rewrite from the Bronx riding.

You know, but and I don't know, I just

took a, a good pickup, and there's lots of good pickup, man.

I mean, lots of them.

And there always has been, but I think that the,

the styles and stuff.

Now, there's some of that stuff.

I don't agree with how they pick up anymore, but

that's just my opinion and so, what values,

what cow, what, what part of the cowboy is disappearing?

And what would you like to see come back?

So, and I don't mean this derogatory

by no means to anybody because it's not totally true, I'm sure.

But I feel that we've become more urban

athletes than we have than cowboys.

Does that make sense?

Absolutely.

Yeah, that's that's exactly right.

They're special, you know, and they're great athletes.

But I don't think.

Well, you just look out.

I mean, well, sorry to say, but probably the last

guy that came from both ends and just passed away, what?

3 days ago, fill line, right?

I mean, you just don't see that at all anymore any anywhere, right?

And I feel that dot comes from the from

the ranching background more than.

And I don't, I don't feel that you see that,

that kind of cowboy anymore.

That just comes from the basic old ranching background.

Everybody is so specialized and they're just great athletes.

And I think maybe sometimes that reflects

into the, into the personality of the people too.

Is pickup man camp still a thing at Pendleton?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, we still have a cook.

Yeah, all the picket man park right there.

It's awesome.

No picket man camp is.

Yeah, they, you know, they'll...

Still the same cook?

Yeah, J-Man, or he, yeah, he did last year.

Yeah, and the only thing that's kind of turned a little bit

is the committee there in Pendleton, uh,

really stepped up and actually they started pretty much supplying

the food that he cooks and and all the beverages

and there's plenty of them.

But are you are you still

welcome in the pickup man camp?

Actually, I get to park right in the middle of it.

I'm like their co- leader.

Me and Bob Alicious, Bob Marriott,

we're kind of they're, they're co leaders.

It's cool though, like campfire.

It is, it's old.

It's old rodeo stuff.

And what's cool too, when we talk about like different eras

or whatever, you know, back in the day, not only did a lot more guys work more

than one event, but they stayed in town.

They stayed at one rodeo all week.

And yeah, we see that at Pendleton still.

Yep.

And that's probably the hardest thing for like, me.

Was when I quit picking up was seeing all

the people, you know, like, I like the year that Tommy

went for Hank Franz, and when you were clowning for him, we were what?

For 90 days, we've seen each

other pretty much nonstop, right?

Yep, and my kids, my kids, calling you,

and everybody knew everybody, and we wondered where my

boys were, and I look over, and it'd be right at your hip, and that was

the, that was the great days, or Bill Fold had them.

Yeah, you know, or like, I don't know, like I could

remember going to have rodeos at Harry's,

were you there for a week or whatever like that, you know, and we sat there and with

your dad and Rigatoni or whatever, you know,

and just, I don't know.

And the people that you got to be, and we got to know the committee

people really great because you were there for a week or whatever, and I kind of feel

bad for the cowboys in that respect, that they,

you know, they, to a day or whatever like that,

they never get to hang out with them guys and get to know the people that, because

it's a double-edged sword.

I know, it's a double-edged sword, but who, you know, if you either

do you get the cowboy 1st or the committee 1st or

the, you know what I'm saying.

And so it's just, I don't know.

You got one edge of the sword on each side of your face right now.

You're exactly right.

I'm not lying.

That's the way it is.

This is kind of like the chicken or the egg, right?

But everybody needs each other.

We all know that.

That's the whole, that's the whole thing.

If you don't have one, you don't have the other.

And it doesn't matter whichever side you want to start with 1st.

Well, we probably don't want to pick size.

We probably want work together as best we can.

Well, I think that's the, the whole

thing, you know, and you look at, and you look at the new

things that these committees are doing, like the money that they've come up

with, and I mean, they're making it to where you can

really make a living rodeo now.

What'd they say?

What farm city have there?

Hermstead, 61000 the biggest rodeo now, outdoor rodeo?

Yeah, they did.

More than Pendleton.

Yep, they did good.

And they're, they're added money as big.

They're doing great.

And, you know, it's like I told Kendra, the the, the pro tour.

I think it's $260,000 is the minimum added

money to be one of the 60 rodeos on the, on their

playoff series, right?

I can see the program.

a lot of money.

That's a lot of money.

Yeah.

I mean, then, and but I think,

and I don't know, like, and I don't go a lot to places like you guys do or whatever,

but, man, it still kind of seems to me like the crowds

are still good if you have a good production.

You know, I don't know.

Crowds are good.

You know, rodeo's good and everybody has their own opinion, just like you do.

Some people want to go eat Mexican food and other people would prefer a burger.

You know, everybody's got their own opinion on what's great.

Um, But at the end of the day,

right now, Western lifestyle is doing well, and things

are growing, and we just got to make sure that we're representing ourselves well,

so that the next generation wants to buy a ticket, right?

So that was another old thing that

Harry told me one day we were driving in somewhere and I can't remember where we were at.

Him and I went to breakfast or whatever, we were coming back.

He's like, you see that boy over there taking tickets?

I said, yes, sir.

He says never piss him off.

I said, what, what do you mean?

He said, I'll bet you a 100 that his dad is on the committee.

And his dad is making him down there taking tickets right now.

And in a few years, that guy will be your boss.

And and you know what?

From the 1st time I went to Pendleton, all

those guys that are on the board up there now, not all of them,

but a lot of them were kids then and now they are my boss.

not that it's fun.

You know, but that's cool.

That's cool.

Well, we appreciate the time, Kendra.

I'll let you, you hit him with one more and I'll hit

him with one more and then we'll let him turn the massager on on

that chair and go ahead and close his eyes and take a nap if he needs to.

Might, you never know.

Okay, so like, Harry

Vold, Cotton Rust, or Benny Butler.

They all had their way of of running things.

Describe, describe your

style of shoe boss.

What kind of shoe boss are you?

Probably a PS4 one, if you really want to know.

Uh, you know, I don't know, like, I

mean, I watched old Benjamin Butler.

You know, I've watched Ike Hanky.

I never was around a cotton rodeo.

I'm sorry.

I mean, I knew who he was and got introduced to him, but and I was around Harry.

And I think that if you really pay attention,

like Benny and Harry and them guys, they were more of like

the old traditional style, you know,

like, well, Tommy would have to know this one too.

It's like, you never told a joke during the Bronx ride in that Harry Bold rodeo.

I don't care who you, what clown you are.

I don't care if you were won the buckle.

You did that, you're going to get.

A butt chewing from him.

But I think that everybody's kind of figured out that some

of it is, some people maybe don't take criticism

or or.

You don't want to hustle too much because

then they're slower if that makes sense.

And I think,

And I'll tell you something else about my shoe, Boston and Pendleton.

It is not just me.

I have such a great kuru from those guys

at Happy Canyon.

like Kip Curtis and Bob Corey, and they

keep me straight of where we got to go and what we have to do,

and lots of things like that because there's a lot of things that

go on at that rodeo too, that, and so it's just not me.

I'm going to tell you, like, those guys are straight up

good guys and they work hard and, and they love their tradition

too, but I think that the world of the rodeo has

just changed so much from, from what like Benny

used to be or hair and even cotton, you know, like,

I don't know, it's just...

And it had to have changed.

It had to have changed for them guys too from clear back

to Jake and.

And Elro, right?

Right?

But okay, so just take Pendleton as an example, though.

I mean, would it mean more to you?

Like, are, I don't know what your walking orders, if you, if you're being told,

hey, Pendleton, part of what sets them apart is, they're

not afraid to have a few hours long perf, which I think is cool

because it's nonstop action and so many different things to watch and it's all cool.

I love every minute of it.

But, like, are your walking orders like,

come on, keep it moving, keep it moving.

And is it more important to you to listen to whatever

your walking orders are, because that's who that's

who you're answering to and working for.

Or does it mean something to you, the cowboy that you are.

That, you know, Steston Riders,

E, Thirston, are like, that guy's, that guy's cool, and he's

a cowboy, and he gets it.

Like, if you see something going on in a

bucket shoot, you know if a guy's jacking around or if it's

a legit issue and he's doing the best he can, right?

You know the difference.

I feel the tie should always go to the

runner, you know what I'm saying?

So the cowboys should always get the benefit.

But also too, if he screws around and

screws around, then you got you got to say something.

But like, if you want to know like the marching

orders at Pendleton, it's 2 old past

directors that every morning knock on my camper

at 530 to have coffee to tell me how I screwed up the day before.

It's not the committee themselves.

Old Jack Shaw, and uh,

Doug Corey there at my camper every damn morning to tell me that

I should have hurried this up and that up, but.

The committee of Pendleton, like you say,

they're not concerned about their time because if you

get bored, they want you to go buy a cocktail.

You know, and have a good time at the rodeo.

And so I think that.

I, I think I do, I work for the committee.

Yes.

But also, I'm there for the

cowboy, and I feel that that has come from maybe

my picking up experience because you

never got the jobs if you didn't take care of the stock

contractor's livestock.

But you never got to go to the good things.

If you didn't take care of the cowboys and they voted you to go.

And I feel that I have to do the same thing at

that as being the shoe boss at Pendleton as I did picking up.

Yeah, but you got...

Maybe I didn't answer that question, right?

Well, you got to, well, with me and you like,

back when I was running the shoots for the PBR, and

especially if you got, if you got 16 head of bareback riders, let's say.

Well, there's there's some of them in there that just came for

the back number and to go to the bar.

And you can tell what Kendra is getting at, and you know it.

You can tell that this guy's crapping his pants.

He don't want to nod.

He really does, he wants to figure out a way to still get to go

to the bar and look cool, but not get frapped.

And you've got to admit that, that

those guys, when you walk up there, you're

a little, you're, you're a little edgy.

Now, if you know a guy that's proved himself, then you'll

give him more leeway, because you know he, you know, he's smart enough

to know he's better getting out of there and keeping that horse fresh, right?

Well, and I think if you pay attention to the guys that win.

They're not the guys that are in there.

They they don't want to be in there at all.

They want to get outside and prove their point, right?

Because, especially, and I'm not cussed

with this by no means, but in Pendleton, you want to talk about some

huge ass bucket shoots.

I mean, they're big, and there's lots of room

in there to get wound down in there.

I mean, like,

And and that's the way it is, but but

I also feel so this is where I feel that my crew at Pendleton

is so good is because like while you're

standing there with the guy that's getting ready to nod.

You know, then these other guys are like, standing

down there at the next shoots that you're going to saying, you know, like, we're

getting ready to go and I stand there and I tell them guys,

I said, man, you can't nodject because they're still out on the grass.

And if you want to know, that's what takes a long time at Pelton.

You dang near have to, they have to almost be to the outgate

before you could buck the next one.

Because if you hit 2 horses out there and knock them

down, then the rodeo's really going to go along.

And so you just have to talk

to those guys and and talking them to it and and I

think you just have to be kind of vocal to them, but be

very respectful, but also have a little force to it, you know?

And them good guys, they know that, like,

they, there's just a difference, and you know, you know what I'm saying.

You can just feel it when you walk up to them guys.

Yeah.

Well, you've got 3 grandbabies.

Um, Quick question.

Yeah.

If your grandkids are sitting on the fence and you're sitting on a horse.

What do you, what do you want them to take

away from watching you?

Even if you're not on a horse.

What?

Because I've got small grandkids, and

I can't wait to watch them grow up, but I've often thought to myself, what do, what?

What, what do I want to

teach them that they might not get?

From their parents?

Anything on?

I don't know about your boy, but my 2 boys aren't that brilliant.

No.

You not as good at kids as

there, you know what?

Good humans trump that all the time, Sparky.

Yeah, I know.

You know, like, I, like, my grandkid,

okay, so we have Riato, which is eight.

Ransom Bills 5 and Sterling's 2.

I mean, they're a little, but I don't really.

Whatever they want to do in life, all

that I want them to do is make sure they put all their effort into it.

And this is what my grandma Nelly told

me a long time ago.

She said, soap and water and politeness will get you through the world.

And I still kind of hold out true.

I'm not going to lie to you.

And I think that if you're polite and I

know it's not proper.

Sometimes I say, yes, ma'am, or yes, sir, but I still

do, and I think that that's a way to

get through the world, and, and I believe that, and, and

I hope them grandkids can, Understand that.

And have loyalty to things.

Is probably the biggest.

And enjoy it because if you don't enjoy it, then you're not going to do a good job.

I don't care what it is.

Pretty cool, Coolio.

Kendra?

Any final thoughts?

Well, I probably won't see you at the letterback room,

but I will come say hello at Pickup Man Camp if that's cool.

That'll be awesome, but because you won't see me at Letterbuck either.

I'm too down old for that place.

Those days were gone, huh?

They're way past con.

I go to, I go to Green Acres.

Or God's room, we call it there.

That's the past director's room.

That's where the old guys go.

Well, we want to tell you thanks for coming on.

Thanks for being Billy Ward.

Um, But the memories,

there's a handful of people, you walk by wherever,

whether it's at the NFR, and you glance at each other, and it's just different.

It's just different.

You, that you can't explain and you don't have to.

The relationship you have.

You know what I'm saying?

You don't have to believe it.

You don't have to make a big deal.

You just know it.

I could still remember you, Roman, riding

those 2 mules and watching them run off.

My god, those things, the worst thing you ever want to do.

Well, it's not so good to Roman ride anything

with a short step, and then you get those stinking mules.

They tried to kill me, and everybody said, that's the funniest act ever.

I said, that's because I almost die every time.

It was better that that was worth the money at the rodeo, buy the tickets.

go watch you roam ride them mules now.

Oh my god, we used to laugh.

Well, you should be very proud.

You've got, as you know, one of

the most amazing wives ever.

Your kids are fantastic, your family.

Your family are great humans and and this

wouldn't just be me that say this.

You could, anybody that knows you and your family.

Know what you guys are.

And so hats off for being for being one of

the ones that people should be looking at today.

Well, let me tell you guys something.

We're very thankful that you guys promote rodeo the way you do.

And you guys should be proud of what you guys have

got going and bringing new people to

the sport all the time and even taking people

that have been in the sport for a long time that maybe got dull

on it back to having some sharpness

in their life because of what you guys do.

Thank you.

So thank you guys very much.