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How to Properly Run A Flooring Company with Kyle Hedin
Episode 14810th October 2022 • The Business Samurai • John Barker
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On this episode of the business samurai podcast, I speak to Kyle Hedin. Kyle runs the very successful floor academy podcast who focuses on helping and teaching flooring, installers, how to become true business owners, putting in solid business, operational foundations, profit margins, and quite frankly, knowing their numbers. We discuss how Kyle went from reality TV producer to flooring installer to now business coach and running masterminds for other flooring, install practitioners. So sit back and listen. As I talk with Kyle about floor academy podcast here on the business samurai podcast.

https://flooracademypod.com/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2232743630359702/

https://illustrioushardwoods.com/

Transcripts

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On this episode of the business samurai podcast, I speak to Kyle Hedin.

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Kyle runs the very successful floor academy podcast who focuses on helping

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and teaching flooring, installers, how to become true business owners,

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putting in solid business, operational foundations, profit margins, and

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quite frankly, knowing their numbers.

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We discuss how Kyle went from reality TV producer to flooring installer to now

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business coach and running masterminds for other flooring, install practitioners.

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So sit back and listen.

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As I talk with Kyle about floor academy podcast here on

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the business samurai podcast.

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Do you enjoy talking business?

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Do you enjoy reading about business?

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Do you geek out over the entrepreneurial journey?

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If so, then you are in the right spot.

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The business samurai podcast brings you.

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The stories told by the people themselves you'll be immersed in a wide variety

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of industries from venture capital.

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To gourmet popcorn learning how to be a better leader or the personalities behind

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solving the broadband crisis at the business, Samurai, we believe it takes a

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wide variety of skill sets and experiences to be successful in business and life.

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Our aim is to not only entertain, but educate for you to recognize how

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successful tactics and motivations in one industry can help propel you

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forward in your own unique business.

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Sit back, enjoy, and welcome to the business samurai podcast.

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I am your host, John barker

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All right, Kyle, appreciate you being here.

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I wanna really dive into you.

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You were one of the people that are very niche into a specific area.

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I've only had a couple people that, that were really super targeted.

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What you with what you do in the flooring piece of construction and remodeling.

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So just briefly, how did you get to the point now where you're coaching other

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people to run the business in flooring and

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a little bit of the backstory?

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Yeah.

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Thanks.

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Uh, you know what, thanks, John.

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Just for having me on, I appreciate the, the chance to come and,

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and speak with your audience.

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Um, I I'm Kyle Hadeen, so I run a company called illustrious

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hardwoods in Mesa, Arizona, and that's my installation company.

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I also host the, the floor academy podcast and how that developed was, uh, really.

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I was in a bunch of online groups with different flooring installers, and

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everyone was always discussing the money.

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What, what should I charge?

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How do I charge?

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How do I do this?

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How all these different little business aspects.

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And at the same time, I'm seeing that and participating in those conversations.

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I'm also out on my own as a newly formed contractor with an LLC and

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like, look, I get how to do basic math, but I'd never had to do sales

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and marketing and all this other stuff.

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And so I was looking for books and, and podcasts to do it.

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And so I had found you can find sales and marketing podcasts

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and leadership podcasts, and you could find all that stuff.

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It's really easy.

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But I typed flooring into the search bar one day and nothing came up.

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And so , I was like, but, but what about me like this?

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This is my industry.

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What about, where do I get specific advice for me?

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And I, so the, the crazy part is, is that my, my former, my former

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life, I worked in reality television.

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So I went to film school for three years, and then I worked in reality

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television for about seven years.

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And I went from being a production assistant on up

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to being a camera operator.

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And so I knew how the audio equipment worked.

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And I was like, well, I can do that.

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I'll do a podcast.

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I was like, there's gotta be an audience.

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Like if I'm looking for it, other people are and it's, it's

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just, it's evolved from there.

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And it was me.

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I just, I, I interview anybody.

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I can find that's talking about topics.

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Let me find other successful business men and, and women in my, in my niche.

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And, and let's talk about it.

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What were your struggles?

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How did you get out of it?

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How do we properly bid a job?

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Um, you know, and I, and I get outside that too, you know, I've

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had, I've had my chiropractor on.

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and to talk about proper, like just stretching and, and body

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mechanics and things like that.

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Why it's important?

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Sure.

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Um, what else I've, I've had on a, a counselor and we've talked about

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addiction and, and how to deal with those issues just because it's,

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I, I think a lot of times people get caught up on, on business.

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Right?

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And you think it's all numbers, it's all backend stuff.

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It's systems, it's processes.

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Well, I disagree.

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I that's a lot of it, but if you're not emotionally, mentally, and physically

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firing on all cylinders, I don't care how well the numbers are falling in place.

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Something's gonna fall apart.

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And so I try and look at a, a more holistic approach and, and start

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tackling some of those other subjects.

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Now, obviously it's 90% business cuz contractors are,

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are great with their hands.

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Amazing.

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Amazing.

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It's not a lot of 'em are great with numbers and time

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management and things like that.

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So , we do a, we focus a lot there, but I do like to get outside the box and, and

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talk about some of those other topics.

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And it's

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funny because you, you actually, to me have the number one rule, they say a

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podcasting is particularly when you're starting out, you find that super niche

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to get into, and then you grow and build from, you know, from that, that that's

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always, when I was looking to start mine, that was one of those things.

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And you found one that was completely underserved because even your Facebook

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group, you got, uh, uh, almost 2000 people just in your Facebook group

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right now, from what I saw anyway.

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Yeah.

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I would leave.

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I think it's just so the growth and the people that you're are,

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you're attracting the right audience slowly but surely, right?

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It, it's not a, it's not a race, it's not a race.

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Um, I, I can look back at the numbers and, you know, it started with like 300

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listens and in like a month, and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm doing 300 listens.

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And then it's, it's peaked out at like 5,000 right now.

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And I'm like, man, 5,000 people, like even, you know, I get it like the

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way it's counted sometimes and stuff.

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So maybe it's really like 3000, like individual listens to an

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episode or something like that.

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But that's a lot of people listening to your voice, right?

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Like how many people get a chance to get on a stage and talk to 3000 people?

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Right.

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It's not a lot.

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And so I, I'm humbled, like to be honest, it's, it's amazing that

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you have to put in the time and the effort to, to build any brand, but

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it's been an, an awesome journey.

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Um, it's, it's super rewarding just to know that, you know,

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people reach out and be like, oh dude, this episode was amazing.

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Like, thank you so much.

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It, it really helped me like solve this problem I was having.

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So it, it is doing good.

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It is making a difference.

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And I th at the end of the day, that's all that really matters

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is that my, this industry.

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That honestly, like I came outta nowhere, like I said, I was doing reality

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television and I got into flooring and it, it just, it, it opened its arms

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to me and took me in and lifted me up.

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And my, my life has never been better.

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And I don't think I've ever had better friends than the friends that I have

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right now within the flooring industry.

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And so, yeah, I have sponsors.

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I make some money.

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It's it's cool, but I would do it without them because the industry has given

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me so much that honestly, I can't not give back to it to help others receive

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what I've been able to receive from it.

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That's awesome.

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And, and the other thing too, with building that audience, that way, you

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know, people are resonating with the message that you've got and mm-hmm, the

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people that you've brought in as well as also your experience to, to kind of

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help them progress in their businesses.

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And that's a lot, you know, I want to kind of dive into that a little bit

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because I've got friends of mine that I won't sit there and go so niched in

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that they, you know, they're flooring.

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Maybe they're just general contractors and things of that

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nature, but I'll try to keep it there.

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But when you're looking at the industry and you're trying to provide that value,

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what are, when it comes to operating the business, what are the common issues

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when somebody first reaches out to you and say, oh man, you know, that was the,

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these pieces of advice really helped me take my business to the next level.

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What are those things that you're, you're starting to drive

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progress with?

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Uh, honestly it it's, so it, it's funny how simple it

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really is, know your numbers.

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And this goes for any business.

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This is the beauty about it, right?

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As I've meed into.

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Flooring, but somebody that runs a donut making shop could listen to my

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podcast and, and have takeaways from it.

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You just have to apply that lesson somewhere else.

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So I'm focused one area, but anybody can listen to it if they choose to.

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However, a lot of times with contractors and I think most business owners is they

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just, they don't know their numbers.

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And that's really my simplest message.

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I, I took time on my floor academy, pod cast website.

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I have a spreadsheet under the file section.

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It's the, the business budget calculator.

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And honestly it's has like 30 categories in it that you can input numbers into.

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And it'll, it'll tell you what you should be like, what your

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revenue needs to be per day.

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Right.

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It it'll ask you.

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The first question is how many days a year do you wanna work?

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Well, I think a lot of people look at a calendar and they say,

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I wanna work five days a week.

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There's 52 weeks a year.

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That's 260 days.

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Okay.

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You're not gonna work 200, hold on.

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Right.

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250 plus another two weeks.

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Yeah.

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10.

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Yeah, 260 days.

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I know how to do math.

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I promise um, hold up.

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No, your numbers exactly.

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But you're not gonna work 260 days a year.

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There's holidays.

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Right?

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There's gonna be a scheduling issue.

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You're gonna get sick.

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Your kid's gonna have to get sick.

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Your kid's gonna get sick and have to call in to school.

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And you know, mom's gonna have the inability to watch after them.

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If, if you have that luxury.

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Right.

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So like, I, I base everything on.

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So the first thing it asks you is how many days a year do you wanna work?

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I base it on 230.

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Okay.

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So 230 for me is you get to, um, you get every weekend off, you get the 11

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federal holidays off, and then you get an additional two weeks off on top of that.

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So you get a two week vacation built in there.

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So.

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uh, and then that I, I may have it it's in the spreadsheet.

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It, it may be another two weeks on top of that.

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Like just two weeks of like, you're not gonna work, but I, I, I may be

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mistaken on there, but anyways, it asked you how many days you wanna work.

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So then it starts working you through, like, how much do you wanna make a year?

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Okay.

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Like, what do you want your salary to be?

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What's realistic personally, I think for a flooring installer, like a

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hundred thousand dollars a year is a realistic salary as an owner operator.

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And then it'll start asking, right?

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Like how much is your truck?

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How much is your laptop?

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How much are your, are your tools?

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How many?

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And then it's going through all of it.

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Right?

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Do you have a retail space that you're paying rent?

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Insurances?

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All of it.

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It's all in there.

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If it's not in there, you can add a, a column or a row to it and you can put

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in your own, you know, little line item.

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It also asks you if it's taxable or not.

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Right.

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So if it's, if it, if it's a truck, right.

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Okay.

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So I want a truck, but I'm gonna hold onto a truck for five years.

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Well over that five years, I need to earn the money for that truck.

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So any money that's sitting in my account becomes taxed.

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So it'll ask you if that line item is taxable or not.

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So you just click yes or no, and it'll automatically calculate out the rest.

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So you get down to the bottom of the spreadsheet, you filled it all in.

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You tell it how long you want things to be in service.

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You tell it how much they cost and it tells you a, a per day rate.

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Okay.

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So it let's say it spits out $600.

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All right.

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So you need to make $600 in revenue per day in order to cover your

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taxes, insurance, overhead, your personal pay, all that fun stuff.

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The last question it asks, this is where everybody makes a mistake.

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How much profit do you wanna make?

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Because nobody included profit yet.

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You've only covered.

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Your expenses.

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You are.

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I think a lot of times people think that they're the, the

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owner of their company, right?

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I own the company, the company's me.

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And so my pay is, is the profit.

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No, no, no, no, no.

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The company is above you.

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You are an employee of your company, even though you own

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it, it is the higher authority.

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And so now you get paid for working in your company.

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And then as the reward for taking all of the risk, you receive profit.

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At the end, I like to say a healthy company.

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You should be minimum 10% net.

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So if you're doing a million dollars in revenue, you should be walking away with,

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um, a hundred thousand dollars in profit.

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And if your salary's a hundred thousand, that means you're making

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$200,000 a year running this company.

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Right.

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But you have to make profit.

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And so that's why it's the last question asked people, don't often realize

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that it needs to be there and then it spits out a new number at you of,

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oh, well you want that much profit?

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Well, you went from $600 a day.

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You now need $900 a day, but right.

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Whatever that circumstance is.

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Right.

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And so then you can, let's say you start getting into employees and whatnot.

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There's another side of the spreadsheet that I think helps figure out how much,

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um, what the employee labor burden is.

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And so for me personally, I think employees, if they're in

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a, in a labor based industry, okay, this is how I look at it.

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If you can give me $800 in labor a day, I'm willing to pay you a total of 400.

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So I'll make a 50% margin on you.

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And that's what I get for the risk.

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But that also covers the overhead, the tools, all the things that you

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got during the day to be able to do the job successfully as my employee.

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And then you get a walk away with the compensation.

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So you can start.

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No, that all, well, I was gonna say so as you grow, right,

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you can start looking at yep.

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That other side of the spreadsheet, and you can find a way to work it

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into the first side so that you can start figuring out better numbers.

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Yeah.

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The, and the way you've let into that with knowing the numbers is something that is

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kind of got a bunch of subset questions too there, but totally agree, because I

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would see people that, you know, maybe they were making, you know, 25 bucks an

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hour, then they for an employee and then they would go, oh, I'm gonna go start out

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and I'm gonna go make 25 bucks an hour.

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I'm gonna go charge them.

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Cause that's what I was making.

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And it's like, you're gonna be in business.

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If you can find somebody about three seconds, Because you know of what

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everything's gonna get eaten into there.

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You've gotta do those more advanced calculations, but how many in this,

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you know, again, a little familiar with got some friends of mine that work in

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various aspects of the construction field, how many people are trying to elevate

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themselves from being the practitioners, being the person sitting there on their

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hands and knees, installing vinyl floor, installing tile floor, installing a

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hardwood floor, two versus going and elevating up to become the business

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owner that they're going to bidding the jobs they're running the teams.

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They wanna get multi, you know, maybe multi projects at a time and finding those

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because my experience has been, and even friends I know have yet to be able to get

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beyond themselves as the ones with hands on with the hammer drill saw, whatever

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else is involved with that.

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So it it's a, it's an interesting problem.

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I think, within the flooring industry, um, would you look at other trade.

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You go look at a, at, at painters, electricians,

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plumbers, dry wallers, excuse me.

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Um, there's you either work for a large company.

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That'll tell you where to go every day, right?

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You get be an employee and they just send you out or you run your own business and

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you advertise and you receive clients and you go and bid the jobs and work with it.

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Or you work with a GC and you, you subcontract.

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Okay.

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Flooring's interesting in that at one point, the industry shifted and people

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no longer became employees and they were encouraged to become their own business.

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Right.

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Go be a, you can subcontract from us.

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So there are giant work rooms.

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Um, you can look at a lot of the big box stores.

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You know, there's the one with the big orange logo or the one with the big

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blue logo in America, you can go look at one of those and they will have a

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they'll sell flooring and they sell installs, but they subcontract that

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out to a very large company in the.

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and then that company subcontracts it out again.

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So they don't even do their own in house install.

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So it gets subcontracted twice, which is now playing with the numbers really bad.

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Um, and so slice off the top, slice off the top.

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exactly.

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You just, you're getting your knees cut off before you even get started.

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But that's, I, one of the biggest problems is that there are a ton of

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guys that subcontract work through these giant work rooms, right?

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They show up, they get handed at an invoice.

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They get told to go do it.

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The pays not high enough for them to actually make profit without doing volume.

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So corners get cut, which means we're, we're not taking the time to prep it.

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We're installing fast.

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We're not doing as good of work that we, that we should, but we're make,

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we feel like we're making money.

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Those guys don't even know they're running a business because they

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say, oh, I'm just a subcontractor.

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Did you have to open up an LLC?

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Right?

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Did you have in my state, you have to get co a license to be a flooring contractor.

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So, if you had to get licensed and you had to open up an LLC, you're a business

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and you need to run like one, which means you need to know your numbers.

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And so that's really what I'm dealing with is I need to find the people

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that don't even know they're running a business and convince them, sadly,

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literally convinced them that they are running a business and they need to

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know what they have to make per day.

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And then they can go argue there, there was a gentleman, we had a conversation

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after he saw my spreadsheet, he went to the owner of his retail shop and he

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was like, look, I filled this all out.

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Like here's, I'm not making enough money.

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Like you have to pay us more.

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And he had the, an actual business conversation with the owner of the

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retail shop and he got everybody raised on, on carpet installation prices.

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So that's awesome.

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It, it was it because a lot of guys go in and they ask for more money, but they

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don't have a reason why they need it.

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He was able to go in and have a, you know, a conversation of business owner

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to business owner with this gentleman and say, here's why I need more money.

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You know, look at the value I provide behind it.

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You know, I don't get callbacks.

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My, my installations are successful.

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They're top notch.

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I use premium products to, to do them, but it's costing the X amount

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and you're only paying the X amount I'm going broke working for you.

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But I really like being able to do that.

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Is there a way that there can be more meat on the bone for me?

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Right.

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And it, it worked out, but usually you, I hear stories like, oh, I went

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and asked for another 5 cents a, a, a square yard and they told me no.

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Okay.

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You asked for 5 cents, what do, what do you bring to the table for 5 cents?

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Right.

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Once again, you you're running a business.

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You need to be able to have that conversation.

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And it's, I'm just an installer.

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I'm just an installer.

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No, you're not, man.

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There's, there's so much more.

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So I, I, and that ties into what I was thinking about next with this.

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Cause people I know that have done, you know, they're going through a remodel or

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is, you know, they've got like, maybe it's not even just a remodel, cause they don't

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like the look of it, but something's old.

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It's wore out it's time to get something new.

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The homeowners I know are just, you know, it's just price shopping, you know,

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they're going around for price shopping.

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How does somebody be successful and differentiate themselves, show that

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they're brand that to the, to the end customer, whether that's, you know,

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they're being the subcontractor or to just, you're going straight to the

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homeowner, because that's what you do to, to differentiate yourself beyond

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just, you know, the price where, where people were just shopping price.

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Um, the easiest way I've found is one.

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I only do residential remodel.

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I, I don't do any commercial work.

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I have one GC I work with, but he generally does remodels.

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But for the most part, I go find all my own clients and I, I advertise and

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they, you know, I get the phone calls.

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I, I weed through everybody.

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The best way I found to find people that don't wanna shop by price.

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I'm one of the only guys in my area that I know that will charge a consultation fee.

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How many contractors have you ever heard of John that charge a consultation fee?

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I

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think more of them.

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Should you want, you want me to come

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build your strategy for you?

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That's not free.

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well, cry.

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Look, my gas, isn't free.

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My time.

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Isn't free.

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My knowledge isn't free.

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I had to work hard to get all of those things, right.

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I had to, I had to do a previous job to get the gas money.

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Um, my time is the only thing the, is the only commodity we actually have to sell.

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And my knowledge has come with years of experience and, and

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honestly mistakes and failures and, and learning how to fix things.

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So yeah, if I'm gonna come out, I, I will, I can, I know my number's well enough

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that I can ballpark people over the phone.

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You know, uh, I have 2000 square feet.

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It's, it's all carpet coming out.

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I, you know, it, they can give me all these details and I can

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start asking some questions.

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Well, you don't wanna replace the baseboard, save the baseboards.

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What kind of flooring are you looking at?

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And I know my number's well enough that once I kind of start putting

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that all together, I can give you a ballpark range, you know?

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And so it's gonna be like my luxury vinyl plank installs they're with

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product included, you get a four fit, four 50 to five 50 product allowance.

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You're 11 to $17 a square foot, all in that includes

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brand new baseboards as well.

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Now, if it's all carpet coming out, you're closer to 11.

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If it's all tile coming out, you're closer to 17.

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Once I start getting that information, I can kind of slide around the numbers

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and I'll get you a ballpark, right?

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So they tell me 2000 square feet.

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I know that.

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Half tile, half carpet.

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Okay.

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Well, you're probably around 15.

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So I'll do the math.

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And 15 times 2000 is 30 grand.

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I'll tell 'em depending on product choices, you're probably

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somewhere between 28 and 32.

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If that sounds good, I'm happy to come out.

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We'll take a look at it.

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I charge a hundred dollars consultation fee to come out, measure anything.

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Get you the numbers, go over the project with you, get you from point a to point B.

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If you decide to go with me, the a hundred dollars gets applied towards your balance.

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If you don't, it just compensates me for my time to come out and

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go over the project with you.

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Um, I've had a couple people block at it.

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Most people are like, you know what?

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No, that makes sense.

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I I'm happy to do it.

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And so for me that a somebody willing to give me a hundred dollars and, and let

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alone, they already know the price range.

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Right?

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So if I'm way out of their price range, I just save myself a ton of time.

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Cuz I get a ton of people that are like, well you're twice

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as much as everybody else.

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I know I am.

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I know, I know I'm, I'm good.

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And I'm good.

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Like, I'm sorry.

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I run a business to make money.

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Like I didn't, I didn't get in it to be a charity case.

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And so I've eliminated people and then anyone willing to gimme the a hundred

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dollars is probably my ideal client.

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They most likely have heard of me or followed me on my,

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my Facebook page for a while.

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They're now willing to give me a little bit of money and the best

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part about it is psychologically.

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If I can get you to gimme a little bit of money, you are way more likely

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to give me a big amount of money.

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So it it's, the system is, is like twofold, but that's kind of

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like my, my tire kicker system of are you really a good fit?

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I can give you a number over the phone.

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Does that sound good?

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Okay.

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Now, does this sound good?

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Like this is the next step, right?

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It's gonna cost you a little bit.

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And if they're into that, then I, I close more leads than.

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Than anything.

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Once I go out and get that consultation fee like that, somebody

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willing to gimme that money has generally already decided to go with

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me so that it's worked that way.

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See, and that's a, yeah.

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That's and that's a principle that, uh, I've implemented for myself.

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It may, it may not even be, uh, a fee, but just a form because you know,

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when you're talking about trying to go adjust somebody's business operations,

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or you want to help improve 'em are they really able to do the change?

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Do they want to do the change?

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Because if they're not really to invest into it a little bit and

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we call it purposeful friction.

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So you've got a little bit of friction in the beginning because you know, if they're

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willing to do that, they're serious.

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They're absolutely serious with either, either doing what you said.

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Maybe they don't go with you, like you said, but they are.

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Absolutely not just kicking tires around, cause maybe they'll do the project in

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a year from now or something like that.

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They're not gonna waste your time now.

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So that's

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all that stuff out.

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It, it also lets you dictate the terms, which I think a lot of contractors, they,

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they start backing off and I, if you're con man confidence is huge in business.

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And so I don't need your job.

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I'm gonna go in and, and I want your job.

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I'd like it, but I don't need it because I've been able to build a

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bank account that can support me.

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Right.

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So I think being able to go in with confidence and not seem

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desperate and constantly have to like, well, okay, I can take that

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negotiation and I can take this one.

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And I'll, I'll take $50 off here, year a hundred there.

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Like when you can go in and dictate terms and you tell the client like,

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this is the way it's gonna be.

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If you can't listen to me, cuz you brought me in as the expert, that's

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why you're hiring a contractor folks.

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Like you're hiring an expert to handle the project for you.

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Let them do what they do best.

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If you're gonna dictate, you're not my client, right?

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Oh, I saw that on this YouTube and I, I, you gotta do it this, no, no, no, no.

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I'm sorry.

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Like there's guys, that'll let you do that.

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I'm not that guy.

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So that's another like flag for me is I, my clients are calling me

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because they want a professional to come in and handle it.

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No questions asked.

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I'm gonna tell them X, Y, and Z.

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This is the way it goes.

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And then I'm gonna deliver on that.

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So it's, that's another like kind of red flag thing for me

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with what you're doing.

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And with the way that you're, you've kind of got your call

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it your value ladder there.

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You've got your, maybe it's a quick thing over the phone.

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Hey, it's a hundred bucks for me to go check it out.

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Then they get, see if they even like you, cuz you're gonna be in

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their house or something like that.

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When you start getting the details of this, because let's say you, you

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go, Hey, my services are premium.

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The others, I do all these other things.

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Do you have jobs that you're like, man, this is just too small.

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I'm not.

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You've got like minimum thresholds.

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Cause that's something that I've told other friends, like, as you've

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built your business, you can't be the, the handyman for instance.

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Right.

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And go around and do all these things versus giving up the opportunity cost

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on a, on the stuff that's whizzing by.

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That's bigger because you either like somebody or whatever, how do you, how

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do you set that minimum of that threshold?

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It all goes back to knowing your numbers.

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Right?

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So at the very beginning, right?

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Yep.

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I talked about my spreadsheet, my number $1,000 per day in labor.

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Well, and yes, I, well, that's it.

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I need a thousand dollars in labor.

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If I sell materials, that's that's bonus money to me, I try and base

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my entire business off of labor because it is a labor based business.

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So I need a thousand bucks.

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So if you call me and you've got, you know, a little tiny bathroom

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that you wanna do, I'm sorry that it's only 40 square feet.

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It's a thousand bucks.

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We can throw something else on.

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Do you need like a repair somewhere else in your house?

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Or like I'll, I'll try and work with people, but it.

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It's rare that I get two people wanting a repair that I can like

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stack on top of each other so that I could do like 500, 500.

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So I'm sorry.

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It's a thousand bucks and I get it.

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It's expensive.

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They, they may not go with me, but I, I have had people go

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with me and they're like, I, I can't believe how much you want.

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I was like, look, there's a $5,000 trailer with $20,000 of tools in it.

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There's seven years of experience.

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, there's the insurance.

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There's the overhead.

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Uh, what happens if I reset your toilet improperly and it leaks and ruins

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this whole thing, I have to come back and redo it again outta my pocket.

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Like you, you start looking at it and that price, it's not so high.

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So you, you gotta know where you have to be at, and that's your number.

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It's not that I don't want your small job.

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It's that once again, I'm running a business and I'm running

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a business to be profitable.

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I wanted to be able to take the risk to get the reward.

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And I'm gonna make sure that I get the reward.

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If I go and do a bunch of charity cases.

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And if, if my overhead is $500 a day, can I go do that small job just to make

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the 500 and keep the business open?

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Yes, I can.

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But then I'm giving away my gas and my time and, and all of that for free.

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And it just doesn't long term.

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It doesn't add up and I've always looked at it as, okay.

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I've lost a thousand dollars today cuz I didn't work, but what can I

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do from home to move my business forward and get a better return?

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Can I spend time on marketing advertising, put something new on my website?

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Where can I so that I can get a 10 X return going forward?

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No, and that's absolutely that all ties into that.

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Again, everything comes back to knowing your numbers and so many people.

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don't, you know, as, as we've discussed, one of the things,

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how do you bake in or set?

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I think one of the things that comes into client expectations, mm-hmm and

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for success and failure is sometimes how do you mitigate something that you

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may have unknowns in the beginning?

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Let's say you're replacing the floor and you have no idea that there's

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been subfloor damage because there has been water and it's been rotting out.

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How do you set client expectations for that?

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So if those things happen, it's not just the world's coming to an end scenario.

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The, the, so in Phoenix, we are like all concrete slab, unless you have an

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upstairs, then that'll be a, a wood subfloor, concrete labs do not have to be

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poured to the same tolerances as flooring installers have to install on top of them.

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Like the, the flatness tolerances are way, way different.

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So essentially every interesting concrete.

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Subfloor that's out here.

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Every concrete slab is like an ocean there's humps and bumps, and that

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just all kinds of nastiness in it.

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But I can't see that.

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Right.

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I go into your home, the builders put down carpet sheet goods,

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tile, what whatever's down.

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I, I don't know what it looks like.

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So I'm gonna come into your home.

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I'm gonna look over your project and I'm gonna tell you, this

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is the number for everything.

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You know, this is your all in price.

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Um, I don't move furniture.

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I work by myself.

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So I tell 'em, this is your all in number for everything minus moving the furniture

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and any unforeseen major prep work, right?

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If there's a crack in your slab and I have to grind it down, or there's a big

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valley in, it needs some self level in it.

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I was like, I can't bid it until I can see it.

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And I've seen EV well, how much Kyle, how much?

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Cause that we gotta know.

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Well, I've seen everything from $0 in a bedroom.

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That's 150 square feet.

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to $30,000 in foundation repair because the slab was cracked like a tic tact

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toe board and wow, that was that.

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No, but that was the foundation repair.

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I didn't even get to install that floor or to fixing it on the inside

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because we had to wait, once they did the foundation repair, they had to

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wait a year to even get it addressed.

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So they said, Kyle, we need to return the flooring.

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And I was like, well, there's 30% restocking fee.

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Right.

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We went through this whole thing and they got some money back.

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They bought some carpet, they threw it down.

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I haven't heard from 'em since I, I hope everything's worked out.

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And, but yeah, they had $30,000 in foundation repair and I'm like,

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I'm sorry, but I can't like, I don't, I don't know until I know.

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Well, what's the average.

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Well, right.

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Once again, I don't, I don't know.

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Cuz I can tell like if you're 2000 square feet, can I do a quick

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calculation of maybe you need a quarter inch of, of self level

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linked cement poured over your floor.

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. Yeah, I can do that.

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You know, that's gonna run you about 10 grand, but I can pull everything up.

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And now I tell you it's a three eighths inch average, which adds another

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eighth, which adds another five grand.

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And I'm telling you it's 15 and you say, no, no, no.

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You told me, you told me 10.

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I said, no, I guesstimate it 10.

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Right?

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Like the words you use and choose with people like you gotta listen to

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your contractors really carefully.

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And some guys will dig themselves a whole, but I I'm guesstimating.

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Right.

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And I, I, so I try not to give hard numbers on that stuff until

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I can, but I, I, I warn people.

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I'm like, look, just because it, I I'm telling you it's $20,000 to do it here.

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I would have at least another five in reserve.

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If not more like this can quickly escalate out of control.

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Um, the other part of it is, is I personally, I won't install if they don't

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want to do the prep work, because then it's not to the manufacturer's standards.

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and running a business.

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I need to mitigate my risks.

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And so if I can't install it to the manufacturer's standards, then I'm not

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going to install it because I'm not gonna buy you a floor in the future.

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Let alone if it fails because that subfloor wasn't prepped correctly,

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guess who gets to pay for the subfloor fixes in the future too.

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Me.

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So, no, thank you.

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Right.

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So, and speaking of manufacturers, how much has the flooring industry

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been hit with the supply chain issues during all of COVID?

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Oh man, uh, it's something I've seen in other areas, uh,

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with other friends of mine.

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And I don't know if it.

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Their lack of wanting to go to go find other supply vendors.

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Cause they're, you know, I'm talking about they're going, you know, they're, they're

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not going to the big box necessarily.

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They're going to the little small mom and pop the hardware stores,

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especially order this stuff.

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And it's like, I can't replace, I wanna use windows.

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Cause I know this to be true.

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You know, it's six months to get a window in.

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How, how have you been affected that?

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And how do you tell other people to start shoring that up?

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Because that's, if you can't get materials, you

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can't work.

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Oh, it, I mean, it's been, it's been so many things I used to say my,

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my estimates were good for 30 days.

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My estimates are good for seven now because I don't know if

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a price increase is changing.

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Right.

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I've seen the, with the, with the price of baseboards has doubled in the last

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year from like where I would get them at my supplier at the wholesale cost.

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Like the prices have doubled.

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If not more flooring has gone up, it's gone down, it's gone back up.

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Most vendors have only put price increases in.

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I do have one, like I said, it's gone down.

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And I've had them like lower it and then they raised it

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back and then they lower it.

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Now they've lowered it again.

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So hopefully it stays there.

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Um, it's, it's been a lot of things.

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It's there was a, a, um, container shortage, right there just wasn't

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enough containers to go around.

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Yep.

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Then the containers were getting stuck on the ships for weeks on end.

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And so they would say like, it's in the Harbor.

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Well, great.

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When's it gonna get?

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We don't know.

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We don't know when it's gonna get unloaded.

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Okay.

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And then it gets unloaded.

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Well, now we've got a trucking issue, so can I even get it from I'm in Arizona?

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And it would still like to get it from California to Arizona once it's unloaded,

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it could still take another week.

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It should take a couple of days.

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And so it's been, it's been a nightmare.

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I went from telling people like, uh, you know, the distributor said that

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it's gonna, you know, it's back ordered, but we're gonna get it August 10th.

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And then we should, you know, they'll get it in California, August 10th.

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So it should be here August 13th.

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So I can start your project.

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You know, let's say the 13th is a Wednesday, so 14.

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I'd be like, I can start you August 18th.

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Right.

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And I would, I would book them in to do August 18th, knowing that

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all these things were gonna happen.

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I won't book a job until I know that I like, I won't put a date on my calendar

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to install your project anymore until all of the material is locally in Arizona.

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And I have received calls that I can go pick it up from all of my

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different distributors, because I'm, I'm not gonna play the game

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of, I have to call 10 people now.

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So have we been affected?

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Yes.

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Are there different suppliers?

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Yes.

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I know things have been shifted, but I have also had issues where the,

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the raw materials needed for these manufacturers to be able to make their

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self level or their thin sets for tile.

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Um, just different raw materials aren't even available.

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They can't get enough of them and they've shifted.

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How they make some of them, and then that's run into issues of

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like, it's not performing the way that it was supposed to perform.

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And so now they're saying don't use this batch number or, um, people

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are just upset and they're not like don't use this product anymore.

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The way they had to change it, it doesn't function the same.

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I know companies that, you know, they, their company colors blue.

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And so their buckets were blue.

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Well, they got white or green or pink buckets now to put their product in

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because that's what they can get.

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And they don't care because it's better to get you a product than no product.

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So it it's been everything.

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It it's, it's supply shortages.

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It's raw material shortages.

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It's gone up.

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It's gone down.

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It's gone back.

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It's come.

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It's been fixed.

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I know a lot of people were by American, by American.

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Well, there's not a lot of American luxury vinyl plank makers and

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manufacturers, honestly like 98% of it comes from overseas, probably.

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so that adds in a whole nother problem.

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Right?

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What are, what are the raw material issues over there?

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What are their shipping times looking like now?

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Like once again, you gotta get it on the, you gotta get it made,

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you gotta get it on the boat.

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You gotta get it over here.

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You gotta get it unloaded.

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Is it getting better?

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Yes.

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You know, we're months and months and months removed from

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the worst of it at this point.

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But I got a buddy in Oregon that does high end bathroom remodels, and

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then they also sell, um, the, the add cabinets in there they're cabinet

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makers, six months out on any new orders.

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And he was like, no, we're dropping that line for now.

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We're just, we're not even gonna sell it.

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We're not dealing with it.

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I can't tell somebody six months.

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So forget it.

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Like we're, we'll just stick with tile at this point.

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And then when times get better, we'll come back into it.

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So it it's still out there.

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There's, there's still issues, but it's getting better.

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and I that's, I'll be honest.

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Like I'm kind of excited that the, like I see the economy slowing down a little bit.

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I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing because less people will wanna buy stuff.

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it look, it went from, we literally shut everything down.

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These factories couldn't make anything to, everybody wants something.

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Everybody wanted something, right.

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We pumped so much money into the economy that there was over buying

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and maybe it's not over buying it.

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Just, we were buying a lot of stuff and we couldn't keep up with demand.

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Like it's got, we have to be able to like, take that strain off of it

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to make up for the time that there wasn't the production going on.

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So I don't, it's not necessarily a bad, I'm gonna, oh,

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I'm gonna go on a tangent for that real quick, just cause I, I find, I found this

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funny and has nothing to do with flooring, but just that whole economic thing in

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general, you couldn't get anything.

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Everything was like you said, you know, you remember the runs on

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certain, uh, you know, toilet paper.

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If you went to the grocery store, the, the things were out, you

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know, Walmart target and all this stuff were placing massive orders.

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And of course, because they couldn't sell any of that stuff.

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Their, their, their stocks were taking a hit and, and now they, everything

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that they've been ordered has finally

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showed up and it.

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No, no, no, no, no.

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You've got too much stuff now.

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And your stock price is gonna take it cause of that.

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And you see all the little discounted labels, anytime you, I have found that to

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be hysterical for some reason, just that goes into there, but all right, let pivot

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it.

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It was just my C know your numbers know what's what's going on.

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And no one's been through this before, right?

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This is kind of something new, the right.

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It it's a lot different when businesses are me and you bartering

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in the same village to be able to like, Hey man, you can make a house

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and, and I can cook some food.

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So like you build my house and I'll cook food for you for the next year.

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Like, whatever that exchange is gonna look like, it's a lot different when

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you start getting globally connected.

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And it's, it's just a hot mess.

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So what's the, what's the fix.

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I, I don't know, but it's gonna take time.

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it we'll figure it out.

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It'll come around, but it's, it's been an interesting.

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It's been an interesting ride.

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And I, for me, once again, it comes back to knowing your numbers

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and like, everyone's always, oh, it's so good right now.

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Construction's amazing.

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Like, and honestly, construction is booming.

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It's never been better.

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These guys have been on a ride since about 2012.

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It's been like a decade of it.

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Doesn't matter what you do.

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You can be successful in this industry.

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None of them are banking on what's the flip side.

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What do you do in a down economy?

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A lot of guys have started businesses and never been through it.

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And I, I, you know, they're running out and they're home.

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We're making more money than ever.

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We got a boat and an F three 50 now, and I just bought a new house and,

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you know, I got a bunch of land and I got the, the new, you know, razor

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quad, you know, offroad vehicle.

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Like I got all these toys.

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What'd you set aside, Ben.

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What'd you set aside, right?

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How much debt are you carrying right now?

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Because at some point those bills come due and it's not always gonna be pretty.

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And I'm not trying to like, I'm pessimistic by nature.

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And I hate going there, but honestly, like, you've gotta keep some money.

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You gotta keep something set aside.

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How many homeowners are just pull.

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They pulled out all the money, right?

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Yeah.

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It's a low interest rate, but if everything tanks, like how much do

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you have tied up in this house now?

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What's it really worth?

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Right.

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And I, I just, I don't know.

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I, I, I'm a cash as king and I like to have some stuff set aside to keep me safe.

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And I like to keep the, the amount of debt really.

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no, and that's, uh, I think it's a good thing to have good mindset to have,

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because you don't know when that's gonna hit you absolutely have no idea

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or something like in, in your industry.

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What happens if you, you suffer an injury and I wanted to, and this,

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I pivoting back to kind of my last point, you're you, you you're in an

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industry that takes that wear and tear.

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You talked about having the chiropractor on, on the podcast.

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So how important cuz I know you run mastermind groups.

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How important is it to try to get some of these guys to fir you know, you're first

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seeing and become business owners, but to go, you gotta stop doing at some point

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doing the day to day, because getting down on your hands and knees won't last

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forever and you may still need to work.

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If you don't, you're setting yourself upright it, man, it can last forever.

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That's the that's the thing is if you actually do proper body movements and

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you, you take care of yourself and these guys will go, who would you want to.

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Do I want, yeah, I do.

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But a lot of them don't would you want to at 70 look, if I, if I was

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truly passionate about that song, I know guys that are like 70 and

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still doing it and they kill it.

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Oh, I do too.

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They they're so passionate about it.

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They just love it.

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They won't give it up ever, but a lot of guys and gals,

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they'll it, it's the trap, right?

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It's I'm not charging enough.

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So I have to get this done fast.

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So they're, they're putting in 10, 12, 14 hour days, right?

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I, I try unless it's a emergency or you know, that weird one off thing came up

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and it's gonna require me extra time.

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I'm in at seven I'm out at three.

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So you don't even get me eight hours.

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You get me seven and a half.

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Cuz I'm eating lunch on site.

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So you get me eight hours.

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I eat lunch in about 15 minutes.

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So it's really a break, not like an actual half hour lunch, but like I'm

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gonna be in seven to three, maybe three 30 and you get a full eight hours.

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I try and keep reasonable hours.

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Like, I don't want to kill myself.

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I don't want to put in 12 hour days, every day wearing my body

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down because you can't get it back.

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So let me look at the project and bid it right accordingly.

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So I can, I think that's one message.

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The other one is, yeah, a lot of people are owner operators.

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If I broke my foot right now, I can't go install and I don't have

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anyone on payroll currently as an employee that can go do it for me.

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I would be sunk and I'm not making any income.

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Can I subcontract it out?

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Yes.

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I could probably find some people to subcontract it to.

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I'm really nervous about that.

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And it's a, it's, it's the classic entrepreneur trap.

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Nobody's gonna do it as good as me.

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How do I accept 80%?

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Because I give 110 and it's the best.

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So there's some hurdles there for a lot of people to jump over and a lot of

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them can't ever jump over it and that's.

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That's some of the stuff that we get into with the mastermind groups that

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you brought up was that I'm getting five owners together in, uh, in a group.

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And we focus on actually growing your business.

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And it's, you know, one person may be doing a couple million a year and

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another one may be a owner operator like me and do 300,000 a year.

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Well, I need the big guy systems and processes and their

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experience, but the big guy has forgotten what it's like to be me.

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And you know, what, if I wake up Tuesday morning and decide that I

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wanna become a tile setter instead of a floating floor installer, well,

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I can pivot my business like that.

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I just gotta go by the tools.

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It's no big deal.

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And they used to be there.

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They were there 10 years ago when they were an owner operator or it was,

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you know, two brothers or something, but getting a company of 20 people to

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pivot on a dime it's not gonna happen.

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But being able to remember that scrappy mindset is really important.

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And so you start getting these conversations happening in these groups.

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This is my goal.

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And, and this is what I'm working towards, and this is my struggle.

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And so, you know, the guy that's been doing it 20 years, he's

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like, man, I've been there.

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Like, this is what it was like.

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And then somebody else comes along and they're another $300,000 guy.

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They're like, you know what, I'm going through that same thing.

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And here's my struggle.

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And you start getting all these different ideas to help you kind of move forward

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and figure out what it is you really want.

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The biggest thing that it does though, is it's, it's an accountability group

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and you are gonna feel really, really foolish coming and telling myself and the

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four other business owners in the group.

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This is my goal.

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This is what I'm working towards.

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And then we start meeting every other week and you come back two weeks later

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and you're like, I didn't do anything.

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I just, I installed showers the whole time.

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why are you here?

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And I've had to call people up.

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I'm like, why, why do you keep showing up?

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And you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing.

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You said you wanted to work on your business, not just in it.

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that's what the group is for it's to hold you accountable, to actually work

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on your business instead of just in it.

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It's a, that what, that's a Michael Gerber thing with, um, ETH EMyth.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And, and so, yep.

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That, it, it, it's the classic entrepreneur trap.

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Oh, I'm not making any money.

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I don't have time.

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I gotta do this.

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I gotta, I get it.

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So for a nominal fee, we're gonna have this group that will help you

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move your business forward and it's gonna hold you accountable to do it.

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And honestly, the only things I've ever really accomplished in

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life is when there's a pain point.

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So it costs some money to be involved in it.

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And generally now, because there's a pain point, it's costing you

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something you actually commit to it cuz free things, man.

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How many, how many networking groups have you ever seen work

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where it's like, oh, you were gonna go meet that Tuesday at Joe's.

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Okay, well, you met the first Tuesday and then the next month

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there's half the amount of people.

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And the month after that, there's two people.

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And the month after that, it's, it's gone, doesn't work.

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But if everybody had to pay 50 bucks a month to show up to Joe's and, and

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have coffee and network, and then that at the end of the year, that $50 went

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towards like a big party or, you know, you started giving it away to charity

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or somebody won half of it each month.

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And the other half went to charity.

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I don't know, get creative, but like, it's gotta cost you

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something to show up and be a part.

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yeah, there's gotta be skin in the game.

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Yes, absolutely.

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Cuz that's where the results come in.

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Well, and again, that goes back to what we talked about in the beginning.

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When you talked about charging for the, for you to go out and price a job

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and creating some from some friction there, the serious people that are truly

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having a pain point, having a problem they need to overcome or wanting to be

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around other like-minded individuals.

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If it's enough of a problem and enough a priority, they will

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put some skin in the game to be

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there and be a participant a hundred percent.

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It it's, I'm putting my time and expertise on the line.

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That's what I'm bringing to the table.

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You've gotta put some money in it.

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Like that's what I need from you to like enter this, this dance with me.

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Right.

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That's what we're doing is it's a sales dance.

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So yeah, that's exactly it.

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They gotta put some skin in the game.

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I've already invested.

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Like I already put all my skin in the game.

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I own a business.

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Like there is no more skin for me to put in the game.

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I'm sorry.

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Like I've said.

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I'll provide for myself.

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So yeah, I need my client, my potential clients to put something in as well.

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And don't like this isn't a contractor thing.

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This isn't like, I, I see you could be an artist and coming from like my

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reality television background, people want you to show up and well, we'll

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give you copy and credit, right?

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So you get a copy of whatever you help produce and credit.

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Maybe they have a budget to feed you while you're there, but they want me

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to come and like help film it, but bring $10,000 in gear, uh, copy and

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credit, and a, a subway sandwich.

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Doesn't pay for $10,000 in camera gear.

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You gotta gimme something more.

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And so , what is it?

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Well, that's not a good fit for me.

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Right?

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And so don't shortchange yourself, no matter what your industry is.

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I know designers that like spend hours drawing designs for free.

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because they wanna sell the project, but how, how many

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projects do they not get a year?

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And they're sitting there not a couple hundred bucks.

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Like just get it right.

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A cake designer, right.

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They want to, oh, I need you to design me a cake.

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Well, you're gonna draw something up, right.

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Or you're gonna mock it up on the computer.

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Well, it's, it's 25 bucks.

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Right?

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You gotta, that client's serious.

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Get some money from 'em.

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I think there's something in the beginning when you're starting to try

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to demonstrate your value, particularly if you're breaking in where if you

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want to provide the value first mm-hmm , but that doesn't go on forever.

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And I think too many people get stuck into the, you know, maybe they don't I'll

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tell you I was horrible early on and.

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Finally breaking through that actually just recently and getting re getting

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testimonials, getting the referral thing.

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It was just like, Hey, I did stuff.

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I never asked for it.

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And now trying to go back and get that from, you know, even stuff years

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ago is almost an impossible task, but for somebody that's just starting out

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and they want to demonstrate that, Hey, I know what I'm talking about.

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You've never heard of me before.

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Let me go do something up front for somebody a couple times.

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You start getting a couple of those in there that say, Hey yeah, man,

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freaking Kyle is awesome at this.

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He gave me this and then you go, yeah, I did that for free.

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Cuz I needed some stuff I wanted to prove that I knew what I was doing.

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But for you, you know, it's, it's 200 bucks.

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Yes.

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You know,

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I charged now there's, there's a lot of guys that, um, a, a thing called scribing

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has been really big in the tile industry.

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Right.

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And so, um, like hexagon tiles have been big and then there's the

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regular, like 12 inch by 24 inch tile.

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So they're just a straight.

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but somebody might want like the hexagon tiles down the, the middle of, through

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their like niche in their shower.

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So they'll do, what's called scribing and they'll cut the 12 by 20 fours so

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that the hexagon tile fits into it.

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Right.

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They won't cut the hexagon tile straight to he.

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So you have two straights, the hexagon tile actually go outside

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of the like straight line that would've been for the 12 by 24.

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And it has the notch in it to fit in there.

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And so they'll scribe cut it.

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Or guys are single setting, um, pebbles and they're, they're

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scribing to the pebbles with tile.

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And so it's just super detailed work and take hours, but they'll give

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the first one way for free, right?

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They'll they'll convince a homeowner, Hey, let me do this.

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And it's exactly that.

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Let me do this.

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Now you have a marketing piece.

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You've shown proof of concept.

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Yep.

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So now you can sell it.

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And I I've done that.

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Um, a lot of luxury vinyl plank stairs, um, People just

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straight install 'em right.

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They just click the planks together.

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The, the landing's done, whatever I've found ways to play with it.

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I'll, I'll install it at a 45.

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I did that.

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I started selling those.

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I found a way I started building borders and then within the

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border, I would install it at a 45.

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And this is all with like flooring.

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That's supposed to click together.

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So you're not supposed to be able to like cut it and put it together.

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It's it's not made to do that.

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I'm just making it, do that.

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And then you glue it all down and it it's fine.

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So I, I had found ways to play with it and up upgrade what you

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can do on a landing on your stairs.

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And I gave the first couple away for free.

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Yeah, I knew it was gonna take me a couple extra hours.

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That's fine.

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Now I can run once again.

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Here's the pretty picture.

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This would be a great spot for it.

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Do you want this ups, like, do you want this upsell?

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This is what I can do.

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Here's how much it costs and it it's worked every time.

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So yeah, you gotta give some stuff away for free, but you can't do it forever.

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And you, you have to.

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what to give away for free and what needs to be charged for

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don't you can't, you can't give

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away the full.

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Absolutely.

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No, absolutely not.

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And that's what I don't wanna see.

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I wanna pivot okay.

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To, as we, uh, in this last little bit from the kind of the customer's

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perspective, you know, obviously you've been doing this long enough

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and work with enough people.

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You've got, you've got those stories.

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You've got those experiences for somebody that's going out there and

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going, Hey, it's it's time, man.

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I, I need to, I need to replace the flooring.

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What can they do to have a better experience up front for setting their one,

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getting their own expectations, aligned mm-hmm , but make it easier for somebody

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like you to do your job and give the best possible the best possible quote, the

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best possible materials, everything that goes into something that you that's gonna

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be quality that they're gonna like for a

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long time.

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Okay.

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First and foremost, if you're in a state that has licensing for contract.

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Hire a licensed contractor.

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There is the, the state makes them have things in place.

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They will have to have insurance.

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They'll have to have a bond.

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If something goes wrong, there are you, you have recourse actions.

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It's gonna be easier to Sue them and recoup money, as opposed to some states

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where anybody with a, you know, Chuck and a truck can come and install your floor.

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Well, you get the taillight warranty from Chuck and a truck.

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Because as soon as his taillights are gone, his warranty is void and

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you may never get any money back.

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um, know what deposits look like.

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So, you know, you always hear of people getting taken advantage of,

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and oh, you ran off with my money.

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Once again, this is why you wanna find a quality contractor

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that's been around for a while.

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I, if there's not licensing in your state, then you, you can't hire just

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any Tom Dick or Jerry, like find a business that's that's reputable and

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trustworthy has been around for a.

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Because it can be scary to hand somebody a $10,000 check for materials.

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I get it.

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But I'll also, I'll tell you from my side of it, I'm not paying

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for your $10,000 in materials.

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I'm not, and I have to pay at time of pickup.

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Can I put it on a credit card?

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Yes.

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Do I?

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Yes.

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I want the points, but I'm not coming out of pocket and risking

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your check bouncing like I'm so there there's some good faith, right?

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I need some money to get you on the schedule and get your materials

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ordered, but I'm, you know, I'm also, now I'm putting you on the schedule

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and counting on the rest of that.

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So work with a reputable company.

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So you don't have to worry about deposit checks.

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Um, if you can find a, a certified installer for what you're looking for,

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there are, it, it it's kind of the wild west in the flooring industry,

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but there are industry organizations that provide certifications.

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There's.

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Certified flooring installers.

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There is the ceramic tile education foundation, which provides

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the certified tile installer.

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There is the national wood flooring association for hardwood guys.

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They offer, um, certifications in installations, standing and finishing.

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They, they do sales stuff for sales people.

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There, there are certifications out there.

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If you can find somebody that has taken the time to invest in

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themselves, they are running a different business altogether, right?

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They are willing to lose work for a week, spend money on plane and

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travel and all kinds of stuff.

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That's the kind of person that I wanna work with is somebody that's taken time

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to invest in themselves in this industry.

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Cuz a lot of times you hear construction workers say I've been doing it 20 years.

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I've never had a problem.

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I'll tell you what.

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I've only been in this industry seven years.

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I've seen it change a whole heck of a lot, and I don't do it the

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way I did it seven years ago.

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So if the guy's telling you he's been doing it 20 years

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and don't worry about it.

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That's not the guy, that's not the guy for me.

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, I've been doing it 20 years.

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And I, I, I use, you know, materials have changed and like, I, I, I'm

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up to date on what's going on.

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So you can, you can vet some people that way.

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Right?

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Um, it, tile has a huge rate of failure and showers failing and stuff.

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Ask your contractor if you're having tile work done.

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Do you know what the T CNA handbook is?

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It's, it's the tile council of north America handbook.

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It's like, I don't have it up here.

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It's like this thick and that's who comes up with the rules and regulations

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for how tile should be installed in like every circumstance on a

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wall, on a floor, in a steam shower.

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How, you know, what kind of trial needs to be used for what size tile, how thick

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does do moisture barriers need to be it?

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It's got, it's got everything in it, right?

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So a guy that's familiar with that, probably the guy I trust to go in,

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as opposed to the guy that just goes and buys, whatever materials

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are readily available at the box store and throws something together.

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Um, ask questions, right?

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Like, can, can they actually tell me what the steps for the project are?

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Do they spend time with me in my home building a relationship,

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learning what my problems are.

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Are we walk walking through the project and they understand what step

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a step B step C is, are they, are they bringing me through that process?

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Or do they walk in?

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They measure it.

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They scribble something on a napkin and they hand it to me.

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And you know, I get a call 'em back.

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I don't, I don't like the guys.

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Scribble stuff on napkins and just in and out and measure.

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I'm the guy I wanna come in, I'll spend an hour at a job.

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That's 400 square feet.

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I can measure it in 15 minutes or less.

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It's 45 minutes of me trying to solve your problem and figure

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out what exactly is gonna make this, the best experience for you.

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And you know, probably of most importance.

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Do you feel comfortable with them in your house?

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Because if you don't feel comfortable with them in your house, don't have them

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come do the work like you, this person may be in your house one day a week.

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I've been on projects three weeks so far, right?

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I like I'm in there.

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I'm interacting with your dog.

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I'm interacting with your kids in the morning when they're coming

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down for breakfast before school.

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And I I'm getting to know them and having fun.

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Like you have to trust this person in your house.

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Do you feel safe leaving?

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I I've been given keys.

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Here's the keys.

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We'll be back on, you know, we're on vacation.

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We'll be back in two weeks when you wrap up.

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We'll go over the job and, and take care of it.

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Right?

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So mm-hmm, you, you have to be comfortable with, with who they are.

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And I think lastly, a lot of people think like a guy like me show up

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and I make it a point to sell my company because it is unique, right?

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I'm the guy, you got me on the phone, you got me to come out and do the bid.

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I'm gonna be the guy that delivers materials and I'm gonna be the

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guy that comes and install it.

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So I'm the owner operator.

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Like I'm gonna do everything, but there are, I, I would love to grow my business.

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And so ask them, are you gonna come out or are you gonna be sending a

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crew and, and be prepared, right.

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They may tell you they're gonna send somebody.

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Well now, do you subcontract your work or are they your employees?

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Okay, so that might play a difference to you.

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I like in-house teams personally.

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Not all subcontractors are bad.

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Not all businesses that are run with subcontractors are bad, but.

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maybe that makes you feel uncomfortable.

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Can you vet the subcontracting crew?

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Like what's their standard?

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So J those are some basic questions from there.

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You can, uh, you know, really what you need to feel comfortable.

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So they need to understand what it is that you want.

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And you need to understand what it is that they provide.

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Uh, when you get your estimates, they're not apples to apples.

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I, this is the last one.

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They're not apples to apples.

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They may both say that your shower, one may say your shower will cost eight grand.

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And the other one may say your shower will cost 15 grand, but are they just prices

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or does one list out the materials that'll be used, how it's gonna be installed,

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why it's gonna be installed that way?

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Like what, it's not just price.

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You have to know what kind of systems they're using and what kind of products

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and, and the amount of work that they're.

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Seeing ahead of time.

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Cause a lot of times people will come in, they'll give you

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a low bid, they get you into it.

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And they're like, oh, this was unforeseen.

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This was unforeseen.

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This was unforeseen.

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We need a change order.

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We need a change order.

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We need a change order that seven grand shower now is cost to do 20.

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The other guy told you it was gonna be 15 front and he was gonna do all the stuff

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that all those change orders covered.

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So make sure you're comparing apples and apples and it's not always possible

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cuz they might use different products or systems, but you gotta try and get it as

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close to apples and apples as possible.

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And so some, and some companies will say, I don't break down my bids.

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Well, okay.

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I don't need to know the pricing per thing.

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What I need to know is what you're using and how you're doing it.

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Because this one over here told me what products they're using and how they're

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doing it and you don't have anything.

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So I don't know what, what do you include?

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What don't you include.

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no.

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And that is something that I've seen talking about more full

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remodels, where some friends of mine were getting a basement done

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and they, they had a buddy of mine.

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Excellent.

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At this definitely on the higher end scale.

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But if you paid him, you were hands off, trust me, you didn't have to do anything.

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He's the only person I let touch my stuff.

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They went with the cheaper price.

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Not only did the project take about six times, as long as what was initially

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told to them, the guy had to end up project managing his own thing.

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He had to go trace down vendors.

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They was never told he was gonna have to chase down vendors.

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And not only that, they didn't even finish the entire job.

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He ended up having to paint it himself because they took so long.

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He got so fed up with them and it ended up costing him more way more time and

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way more money than if he went with the

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known party in, in that situation.

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Yeah.

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It's I get it.

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There's a budget for everything, right?

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I, I, I, a hundred percent understand, but at the end of the day,

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Is the budget realistic.

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What's what's you saving for another six months?

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Look like, right, right.

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If it's gonna save you a ton of headaches and problems down the road, I, I think a

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lot of times people try and do projects, you know, they are in a budget, right.

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I got a thousand dollars to redo my bathroom.

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You ain't get in a bathroom done for a thousand dollars unless you

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just switch you things like there's no way you're getting a shower.

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Here's a shower curtain in a mirror.

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right.

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So do some research, try and find out realistic budgets.

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Don't get your budgets from the, the cable stations with,

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with the home improvement shows.

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those are not real budgets.

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I, I promise you those.

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Don't do that.

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All right.

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I've got a story.

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I got a story.

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You triggered a story when you were talking about comfortable in your house.

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Okay.

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That's gonna lead into a question regarding all the, the shows.

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When I, by the time I get done.

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So we had we're in our second new home brand new, new construction home.

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But in our first one, we had all kinds of trouble with it.

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If you name it, if there was a vendor involved with it, it broke

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or didn't work including flooring.

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We no kidding.

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Had vinyl flooring in the kitchen that split within three weeks at the sink.

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Oh goodness.

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So they kept sending the crew out.

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To try to stretch it, repair it, whatever they ended up putting, uh, three floors

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on top of it, just putting the same vinyl, even in the same location, they didn't

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even move the seams around and no kidding.

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Within like a few days, the seams would just start breaking apart.

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Well, what's funny about the, the uncomfortable thing I'm sitting there

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and it was the guy they were sending out.

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That was, again, it was probably a subcontractor of a

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subcontractor of a subcontractor.

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You know, you're, you're very much in that situation.

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This guy shows up to the house.

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I'll never forget this.

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And I think we had the floor looked at or repaired.

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I usually have a journal because of how bad the house was.

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Just top to bottom, probably 15 times that they were out looking at the floor, cuz

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I even had the manufacturer drive down from Philadelphia to look at their floor.

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Um, this guy showed up, no kidding with a 10 foil hat.

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Uh, he had a 10 foil hat with a.

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A straw brim that went around it.

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But the center part that fits on your head, like the cap, the hat I'm wearing

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right now was completely tin foil.

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The funny thing was we also had trouble with shutters who

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has trouble with shutters, but we had trouble with shutters.

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He was also the shutter repair guy, cuz I would never forget get the guy.

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He spoke no English and he was show up.

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Um, with just a work order in his 10 foil hat every single time.

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And

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I'm like, what is

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this going?

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What is going on here?

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And why is this guy showing up for every repair

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in the house?

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But during all that, we finally go through all the, the, the flooring repair.

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They ended up just giving us money back.

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We ended up getting, I think a 3000 or $3,500 check.

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They were tired of you dealing with it.

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And they were gonna put in some stupid hardwood that was not

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gonna, it was in the kitchen, was not going to work in the kitchen.

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Mm-hmm so a buddy of mine, the one I was referenced before comes out and I said,

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Hey man, can you put some tile in here?

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We need to get this, this floor looks awful.

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Every scene was just ripping apart.

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You were catching it with your foot.

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Dogs were catching and all that kind of stuff.

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So he starts ripping, you know, we gets the tile start doing it.

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And I did not realize when you start ripping the floor up, however, they

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installed it, ripping the floor up.

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Only took a few minutes.

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It took like a day and a half to get all of the adhesive, all of whatever

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staples or whatever they were using in the floor scraped up to make the floor.

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Smooth.

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So how much has those cable shows and I'm gonna reference one HGTV.

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I got a different story with that, but for a different day, we were almost,

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we were almost on house hunters.

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Okay.

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Um, me and my wife, but how much do they gloss over and set the wrong expectation

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when they like, oh, we're gonna do demo.

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And they do demo and a snapping the finger when they're out there

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pulling up staples outta carpets that take two days to do that.

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And they make it look like it's gonna take a minute that they set

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that wrong expectation for people

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that binge watch that.

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Yes, it's it.

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It's, it's gonna be different.

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I, I can tell you that it's gonna depend a lot on the show and, and

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what processes they're showing.

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All I also know from being in television, that they will specifically pick tasks

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that are accomplishable in that amount of.

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because they only have so many days to shoot.

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Right.

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So there's, there's budgets.

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Right?

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And there's, we gotta get it done in a set amount of time.

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And so we can only do X, Y, and Z.

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Um, some shows are more realistic than others, but most of it

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did, none of it's accurate.

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Like they're, they're having crews come in at night, working through

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the night to get things done.

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You don't see half of it.

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They're using materials that make things set up faster.

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But I also know that I have a friend who worked on a show

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and they packed everything up.

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They were getting ready to leave and the TV fell off the wall, like, as

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they were like pulling down the block.

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Right.

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and the family's like calling like, Hey, it just fell up.

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We're done.

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Sorry.

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We're out like later because the work it's it's quick.

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Right?

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It's it's done.

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Corners are cut for sure.

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and it's because we've gotta get it to look pretty, not great.

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And that's, , I, I'm scared to go buy a house these days because I look at

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what the builders are putting out and I don't trust the builders, but so many

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homes have been touched by home flippers and they just put lipstick on a pig.

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They literal they'll run to home Depot or Lowe's they, they buy,

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you know, everything on the outside looks shiny and new and nice.

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But if they opened up a wall, the electrical may not be done, right.

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The plumbing may not be done.

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Right.

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But only everybody only sees the outside appearance.

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And they're like, Ooh, it's great.

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I need this.

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Well, that house might be 40 or 50 years old.

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Did anyone, did anyone touch the electrical and plumbing?

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What's that really look like, you know, what's the , I don't

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care about the shiny fixtures.

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I can do that myself.

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Like I can make the house look nice.

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I can put paint on it and I can put shiny fixtures everywhere and new

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face plates on the electrical outlets.

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And Ooh, look, it's great.

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But what, what about the bones?

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Like what, what happened there?

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And so be careful about what you're buying learn.

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At least like, I, I mentioned way earlier, right?

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Like I don't want the client to tell me how to do my project because they watched

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a YouTube video, but I'll tell you what you need to go educate yourself this much.

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Just that like, just know a little bit so that you kind of know how the

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process goes in some of the terms.

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So you can at least say, you know what?

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I don't understand what you're saying right now.

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Can you explain it to me a little bit more?

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Can you break it down.

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You've gotta be able to get to the point where you can at

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least have a basic conversation.

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You don't have to be able to do the work, but be able to have a basic

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conversation with a contractor so that you understand what's going on.

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And I think that will help you get the end result.

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Don't tell 'em how to do their job.

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Don't tell 'em you saw a YouTube video and they use this product.

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like, unless you realize that it's a completely wrong product, like masic,

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shouldn't be used to install showers.

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It's just not like you gotta use thin set, but you know, if they,

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if you've taught yourself enough to see that they're competent, then

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what's just let, 'em do their job.

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Right.

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But know enough to protect yourself so that you're not freaking out about

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it because it is a lot of money.

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A lot of times it's thousands of dollars and that's.

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That's a lot riding, right?

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You're putting your trust in somebody else.

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I get it, but not all, not all contractors are, are bad.

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They're they're not all scams.

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They're not all out to get a dollar from you.

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They're not gonna run off with your check.

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They're not cutting corners and, and out like, there's really

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good contractors out there.

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I know a lot of them and they, I think somebody that's not willing to teach you

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how to do it is a concern that maybe, maybe that's the best way to do it.

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If someone's not willing to tell you how to do it and explain this, the

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process, I feel they're hiding something.

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I have nothing to hide.

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I'll I'll tell you exactly how to do it.

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I'll teach you how to do it, but you're most likely not

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gonna want to do it on your own.

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That's why you called me up.

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Right?

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And if you exactly, if you do want to do it, you're not my.

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Quiet, but I'll give you some advice along the way, cuz you probably have

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friends that want to hire me, but that's, that's an abundant mind.

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That's that abundance mindset.

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And I don't a lot of business owners have that like scarcity mindset and they

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think that this, this deal is the last one they're ever gonna get and they're,

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they're scared to like give it away.

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And so, um, maybe that's it just look for somebody that's

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willing to like educate you?

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Well, I

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think, I think we've definitely set up that you are the

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expert in flooring for sure.

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And I definitely applaud the work that you're doing to try to get other business

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owners in the same industry because these basic principles apply to everything.

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This is the reason why I kind of, one of the reasons I started the, the

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business same right podcast, because.

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I have been in a bunch of different industries, but those

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patterns are still the same.

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Right?

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The people you can sit there and go, yeah, this company they're at 10

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million, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily really good operators.

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Mm-hmm it depends on what they're doing.

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You know, they're recreating the wheel every time they don't have systems

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in place that they can recheck.

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They have churn.

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You don't see behind the scenes that there's churn with clients, you

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know, that type of stuff or the core fundamentals are, are absolutely there.

Speaker:

And the principles that you've got on the website with your,

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with your business budgeting, they work in everything, correct.

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They absolutely function in everything to start getting you on a core model

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of going from what I said earlier.

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Oh, I made 25 bucks an hour at my last job.

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So I'm gonna charge 25 bucks on my own.

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That's a quick ticket.

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To being in the poor house.

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Correct?

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You got

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30, at least 30.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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I mean, right.

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two and a half times every day.

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That was sarcasm don't sarcasm folks.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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I was making sure that that was very clear that it was sarcasm

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and that no, but, uh, no.

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Uh, so once again, uh, where's, what's the best place where people can reach

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out who can join the mastermind, talk about your Facebook group.

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So everybody knows where to, where to go.

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Okay.

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Uh, no, I appreciate it.

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Thank you, John, for having me on, I, I love the conversation

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and so where can you find me?

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Uh, once again, my name's Kyle HaDin I, you can find me at floor academy, pod.com.

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That's the website for the podcast.

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If you can, if you listen to podcast, which you probably

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do, cuz you're listening here.

Speaker:

Any, any streaming service, right?

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Just type in floor academy, you're gonna find us otherwise

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there's links on the website.

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If you search floor academy on Facebook, that's where the group is.

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we're having business discussions in there constantly.

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If you're interested in a mastermind, you can reach out to me through

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Facebook or the Facebook group.

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Send me an email through the floor academy website.

Speaker:

I'm happy to get you some information on that.

Speaker:

It's um, I I'm, I'm always looking to form new ones.

Speaker:

I, whether you're in flooring or not, I would like to expand outside of that.

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I think the individuals that are in it with flooring experience, I try and mix

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it up and get tile guys with wood guys with carpet guys with big retailers.

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And like I said, the little guy, but to, you know, if somebody came

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along and, and they say that, you know, they run an it business.

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Great.

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What's your perspective?

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What's your struggles in business?

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Like I, I think having that diversity is what makes the group

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function the best because you get to see other points of view.

Speaker:

It's not that same locked in cycle.

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So.

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Happy to answer any questions about that.

Speaker:

Uh, you can catch some stuff on Instagram here and there at floor academy.

Speaker:

And, uh, I'm, I'm kind of everywhere.

Speaker:

I'm not on TikTok, but that, that might be, yeah, don't get on TikTok

Speaker:

and, uh, YouTube, YouTube, all the stuff is available on YouTube.

Speaker:

Look up floor academy over there.

Speaker:

I, I would love to hit my thousand subscribers in, in 4,000 hours.

Speaker:

So, um, yeah, like go click, subscribe on YouTube under floor search for floor

Speaker:

academy over there, click subscribe.

Speaker:

All the videos are out over there.

Speaker:

I've got a video that actually details me going through that

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worksheet that we spoke of earlier.

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And, uh, yeah.

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You know, if you got a question about business, I I'd be happy to answer it.

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If you got questioned about flooring, I'm happy to answer it and get you pointed

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in the right direction so that, you know, I can connect you with someone locally.

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I know guys.

Speaker:

Across the entire country.

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Uh, I know some guys overseas too.

Speaker:

So if you're listening from somewhere else, I'll try and hook you up.

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Awesome.

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You're everywhere.

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Don't do TikTok.

Speaker:

That's a difference discussion, but don't do TikTok

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Kyle.

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I appreciate it.

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Yeah, no, thank you.