We just couldn’t resist sharing another bonus episode because we are so excited about our first series of How To Take The Lead. New episodes will be released every Thursday at 6am and you can listen/download on your favourite platform.

We wanted to take the opportunity to share more about those who have inspired us along the way and to thank some of the most amazing cheerleaders and supporters.

In this bonus episode you’ll hear more about the following fabulous podcast and book recommendations.

Podcasts we love to listen to:

• Diary of a CEO – Stephen Bartlett
• You’re My Comms Hero
• Behaviour Change Marketing Bootcamp – Ruth Dale
• The Squiggly Careers Podcast
• Inside the Hive with Quiet the Hive
• Conversations with Cat’s Pajamas (*blush* thanks Lee!)
• Trust Issues with Rachel Botsman
• How to Own the Room with Viv Groskop

Books* we love to read and share:

I Am My Brand by Kubi Springer

Hype Yourself by Lucy Werner

The Squiggly Career by Helen Tupper and Sarah Ellis

Your Dream Life Starts Here by Kristina Karlsson

Quiet by Susan Cain

How to Own the Room by Viv Groskop

The Confidence Code Katty Kay and Claire Shipman

And we share our thanks and love for all the support and encouragement from David, Jim, Carolyn, Vicky, Lee’s coach Carol, Daniel, Carrie-Ann’s coach Mikaela, Asif, Bob, Becca, Sara, Liz, Sam and Helen. You are all amazing!

Finally a huge thank you to all of you for listening, sharing and getting in touch to share your views, experiences and ideas.

If you enjoyed this episode why not subscribe to the podcast. We would love it if you left us a rating or review and feel free to share the link to this episode with anyone else you think would find it interesting, using #HowToTakeTheLead

You can find out more about Lee Griffith via www.sundayskies.com and about Carrie-Ann Wade at www.cats-pajamas.co.uk

Get social with us:

Follow or message Lee on LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram.

Follow or message Carrie-Ann on LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram.

Until our next episode, get out there and take the lead.

*The books listed have affiliate links. It means that if you buy via the link then we may receive a small payment. It doesn't mean you pay any more for the book.

Mentioned in this episode:

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You're listening to How To Take The Lead with Lee Griffith

And Carrie-Ann Wade.

Two corporate colleagues turned business

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leadership.

What started with us putting the world to

rights over a gin after work is now a weekly show, challenging

the myths and perceptions and exploring what leadership looks

like in the modern day.

We'll also be sharing our experiences and

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Okay, so we couldn't stay away it seems, we are back for bonus

drop number three, but this is a bit of a different one, really.

We just wanted to pop in to say a bit of a thank you to people

who've been supportive of us, not only in the development of

this podcast but also in terms of our businesses and all the

stuff that we've been doing over the last couple of years which I

think when we go back to first sat in a bar with a gin you know

putting the world to rights in our day jobs.

The usual place you can find us, sat somewhere

with a gin!

But we didn't really, I don't think I'm either

of us would ever of rolled forward five years and thought

we'd be sat here on a podcast. You know putting the world to

rights for everyone else to hear.

Yeah publicly putting in the world to rights.

So in this little bonus episode we really want to

say thank you to a few people. But we also thought it might be

a helpful idea really to share some resources and things that

we found inspiring in our journeys. So we've got some

podcasts recommendations and book recommendations and a bit

of a people shout out. I need to warn you Carrie-Ann I feel like

mine's a bit like the Oscars list you might have to fade up

music at some point.

Yeah, just like cut get her off. Get her off,

need the big hook to just pull you away from the microphone if

you start going on and on. As long as you don't cry. I think

I'd be able to live with it.

So that just feels like a challenge now just to do

that. So to kick things off. Shall we start with? Well, we're

a podcast so shall we start with podcasts? A bit weird if we said

we didn't actually listen to any.

Yes. Let's start with some podcasts that

inspire us. Can I jump straight in?

Yes, please do.

So I absolutely love listening to, and I think I

may have mentioned this person on other episodes when we were

doing lives rather than a podcast. I absolutely love

listening to Diary of a CEO with Steven Bartlett because I think

he is a really brilliant example of somebody doing leadership his

own way and being very authentic and challenging some of the

stereotypes of leadership and I love that he has a whole array

of different guests that he questions and he doesn't hold

back with some of his lines of questioning, which I really

enjoy about it. So that would definitely be one of my top

podcast listens. If anybody hasn't listened and wants

something new and a bit of a fresh, fresh thing to wrap their

ears around.

Yeah, I listened to him too. I can't say I always

agree with him. I do find sometimes his views do come from

maybe a male orientated place of privilege, but I do think he

challenges things as well and he's not afraid to hold people

to account that he has on his show which, which I like.

Absolutely and I love not always agreeing with

people and I hope that people will listen to us and sometimes

think, no, I've got a totally different experience or a

totally different view. So I like that you've said that

because I think it's good to not always be listening to things

that always align perfectly with all of your thinking because it

challenges us a bit as well. So yeah, that would be my number

one tip. Are you sharing one or do you want my second podcast

hot tip podcast?

If you go for your next one and then I can roll off

my Oscars list.

Okey dokey I'll just give you a chance to catch

your breath and make sure you've got enough in you to reel off

that list. You can't see this but it's written on a whole

toilet roll. No that's obviously a really bad joke. My next

podcast hot tip is going to be You're My Comms Hero. If you

work in the communications profession in any industry, I

would absolutely recommend this podcast as an opportunity to

hear from all sorts of different communicators from different

backgrounds, talking about various different things that

matter to them. And I have to also give a little shout out and

a thank you to You're My Comms Hero for running a mini series

on my Two Minute Mentor session. So it was an absolute privilege

to be part of the You're My Comms Hero podcast.

I love that Two Minute Mentor series that is

available to people if they do wish to want to go back and

listen to it.

Absolutely as we're talking I've got another

one now but I feel like I'm turning into you now. The

Behavioural Ccience Marketing Bootcamp podcast with Ruth Dale,

I have to give a shout out to because she very kindly featured

me on one of her most recent episodes and it's been brilliant

listening to some of the other experts that Ruth interviews and

talks with So yeah, that's it. I'm not sharing any more, three

from me.

Okay, well, so this is gonna sound like some

weird fangirl moment, but actually my first podcast

inspiration I'd say was you and someone called Jane from Quiet

the Hive and she does Inside the Hive podcast. And when I first

started my business you both very very kindly wrestled my arm

behind my back and forced me to go onto your podcasts. I mean,

it was...

we forced you out of your comfort zone. And

now here you are hosting one.

Absolutely. I had no interest of doing podcasts in

any way. And literally, I think it was the same month that I'd

launched the business and yeah, it was. I really enjoyed

listening to both of your podcasts. And I thought it was

amazing that you were so confident to have your own show

and interview lots of people and whatnot. But I could never

picture myself doing it. So I do think you were a bit of an

inspiration. If that's allowed.

I'll take that. Yeah, thanks. I'll take I'll

take one I'll take one for Jane as well. Thank you.

The other podcast that I really enjoy is I don't

know if you've heard of Rachel Botsman. She's got one called

Trust Issues and she does a lot around rethinking and

reimagining what trust is and she interviews some really

interesting people and just yeah, she's she's made me think

a lot about broader leadership issues, kind of way of working.

So I highly recommend her I think she's got two different

podcasts out but Trust Issues is one that I enjoy. And I also

recommend to a lot of my clients the How To Own The Room podcast.

I love the book as well and I'm sure I'll be recommending that a

bit later. But I like the fact that it's about stepping into

your own space which we talk about a lot how to make sure

that you're embracing your own version of confident, all of

that kind of stuff and she interviews a range of people

talking about their careers, talking about you know, how

they've embraced their own confidence issues and stuff like

that. And so I really recommend them.

Excellent. I'm loving your top tips and I've

got a new one there for me to listen to around trust issue.

Books. So I mean, I've already mentioned How To

Own The Room. I buy that for most of my clients is a book for

them to read because a lot of people come to me wanting to be

more confident in how they connect and communicate with

people and I think this is a really good book with with

advice and tips. I don't know if it's one that you own.

I don't I don't but I feel like I should, I'm

writing it down now to get on and buy.

I'm not gonna go because you've heard enough of

my voice but do you want to share a couple of your books and

then I will round it off?

Yes, so me I've got a few books that I would

like to recommend that I have really enjoyed reading, that

I've reread and like you I've recommended to other people. So

one of them is The Squiggly Career by Helen Tupper and Sarah

Ellis. And they are just it's a brilliant book full of, again,

tips and advice, but it really is focused on rethinking how you

think about your own career journey. And the fact that

actually careers now are not these kind of linear, you know,

just one directional kind of careers and that actually your

route to leadership and a fulfilling and happy career can

be very different to perhaps the traditional views and I love

this one because it's got exercises throughout the

workbook, which challenges you to really think and reflect and

do a bit of work along the way which I think is really helpful.

They've got a podcast as well haven't they?

They also have a podcast you are correct. So

yeah, we're yes but synergies going on here with the podcasts

and the book. So that would be my first recommendation. My next

recommendation actually two recommendations that are

slightly similar. I Am My Brand by Kubi Springer is a brilliant

book that is I think touches on a lot of what we talk about

through How To Take The Lead around personal brand as leader

and that you know we do all have a brand and how do we really

refine that, think about it, get comfortable with it. I think

that's something that she really helps to touch on and she has a

huge amount of experience working with big brands. And she

really pulls that down into you as a person and you as a small

business owner as well. So any small business owners out there,

another brilliant book again, there's a theme here with the

books that I like it's got exercises throughout to really

start to help you challenge your thinking. And along a similar

vein, around kind of brand, being more comfy and putting

yourself out there is Hype Yourself by Lucy Werner.

Yes. I love that book.

Another one of exercises in so you can see what

makes me tick I need to read a bit and then do a bit and then

read a bit more.

You like the pictures.

Picture books, that's the clue but another

great book that helps you really focus on on your small business

brand but I think actually applicable to you as an

individual and a leader to go through these exercises. And my

list has now turned into the Oscars thank you speech because

I'm just going to throw one more in I really love which is Kiki

Ks. Your Dream Life Starts Here. And again, more exercises in

this book, but it's a goodie because I think it takes it

gives you the opportunity to reflect more holistically so not

just on your working life and career but actually what brings

you joy in life more generally. And I have been working my way

through my own 101 Dreams list. I haven't got 101 dreams on it

yet, but I have crossed a few of those. Obviously some have been

massive big dreams or some have just been little things that

made me happy. So again, that's one that I have shared with

people that I've worked with. So I'm going to stop now as I'm

tired of my voice Lee.

You bought me that book when I when I left my

corporate job and before this Sunday Skies was even an idea

you bought me that job that book to figure out my life.

I did so I hope I hope it helps a tiny bit

somewhere along the way. It's not just collecting dust on your

bookshelf Lee.

I've worked my way through the exercises.

Excellent. I love it. So so you've got a gist

for what I like in terms of reading material now. So how

about you Lee?

Well, actually all my books, interestingly are by

female authors. I don't know what that says anything Brene

obviously has to be read, recommended. I particularly

liked Dare to Lead or do you think that just makes you think

again about vulnerability and leadership and having that

courage and how you demonstrate that and it certainly got me

thinking and I've recommended that to quite a few people. The

other one that I buy for my clients is The Confidence Code

by Katty Kay and Claire Shipman. Which I just love this book

because it reimagines or redefines rather what confidence

is. And that you don't need to be that shouty leader that you

can have quiet confidence. And I know we've spoken before about

the kind of notion of confidence and actually it can be just

because I'm quiet doesn't mean that I'm unconfident, for

example. And that's always been something that people assume of

someone if they're a quiet person, and this book just blows

that theory to pieces, really, so I absolutely love it. And

linked to that my final book, which I finished last week was

Quiet by Susan Cain. And this is all about the superpowers of the

introverted and it really got me thinking about when I think it

this was written before the pandemic this book, but there's

so much in there about learning around the nature of the

workplace in a post pandemic world. So you know, with hybrid

working with more open plan spaces, often people think oh,

you need to collaborate and do groupthink to get innovation and

stuff. If you're an introvert and anywhere between a third and

a half of your workforce are going to be introverts. They

don't thrive in those types of environments and so we're

actually doing a whole load of our staff a real disservice. And

if you're an extroverted leader, you perhaps aren't listening to

people who I don't know if there's a challenging time they

might be more risk averse, but actually then it's proven that

they should be listened to in settings where things are risky

like the banking crisis anyway, I I'm basically explaining the

whole book to you because I loved it so much.

Like I say, we need another spoiler alert, I'm

sure we've already had an episode with a spoiler alert TV

programme. So now we've got like, don't need to read but

just listen to the summary. But it sounds brilliant. And as a as

an extroverted leader, probably one I need to put on my reading

list Lee.

Yes, I've I've actually been posting about it

on my social media saying people should read it regardless of

whether you're introverted, extroverted or anywhere in

between.

excellent so that's a great big list of book

recommendations. So hopefully people's bookshelves are going

to be heaving by the time they finish listening to this bonus

episode, but I know one of the things we were really keen to do

Lee, and you mentioned it earlier was just to share a few

thank yous and shout outs to people who have inspired us,

supported us, encouraged us along the way. So do you want to

kick us off with some of your thank yous?

Yes, well, this sounds really really cheesy.

Actually. I won't tell him that I've name checked him and then

I'll figure out if he actually does listen to it. But I want to

thank my husband, because I suppose I wouldn't have really

had the courage to step away from my corporate job if he just

didn't say, look, take the time, figure out it but he basically

told me to sit on the sofa and watch Netflix for months until I

got bored and then I'd figure out what it was I wanted to do.

How do I get a husband like this? That's my

question. Let's hope somebody that's very close to me is

listening to this podcast.

And I don't think until he put it like that. I

don't think it would ever crossed my mind that I could

just step away from what I was doing in my corporate career and

I absolutely did need that break and that step away to realise

what it is that I wanted to do and the business came out of

that and he's been super supportive in lots of ways since

the business started up and he puts up with me with taking my

pictures and that kind of stuff that comes with it, is he an

influencer hubby? I don't know.

Oh, my goodness, he is so well trained,

please, can he give my fiance some tips because I never get

the photos taken. And if I do they're always really bad ones.

Well, let's say there's a there's a lot of direction

needed.

But yeah, so my my first thank you would have to be

to him. And yeah, as I say, we'll see if he's listening to

this or not because he usually has some sarcastic comment or

something to make.

Excellent. I'm loving that thank you.

Do you want to thank someone because I could go

on forever with names.

I'm going to thank somebody and the person

I'm going to thank and there's no particular order to my thank

yous. The person I'm going to thnk is Mikaela Jackson from She

Almighty because she is my coach. So I thought I should

definitely give a shout out and thank you to my coach. I'm

taking my own leadership advice that I give out to people

through How To Take The Lead about the importance of having a

coach and Mikaela has just been brilliant and a huge part of my

journey, both in my daily work life and in my Cat's Pajamas

life. And we've been working together since 2019. And just

yeah, massive thank you to her and she's also opened up a

brilliant network of other women in all different sorts of

industries and from all different backgrounds that I now

have access to through She Almighty So yeah, that's my

first thank you.

Well, my coach is on my list is well Carol, who

was my coach when I was in my corporate career and she's

become a friend over time, but absolutely it's been continuing

to mentor and coach me as I set up my own coaching business. So

yeah, it's she's she's been a real insight and cheerleader, I

think, to all things that I've done, so I definitely wouldn't

be where I was if it wasn't without her support over many,

many years. And similarly, one of my past colleagues, Carolyn,

who I used to work with in a hospital again quite a few years

ago now, but we've stayed very close friends and she's just

been a champion. She's listened into all our previous Take the

Leads when we did when we were on our lives. She's always

sending encouragement and nice words of support and giving me

her kind of thoughts and insights on the topics as well.

So I always value advice and guidance.

Ah I love that and I'm feeling like this is

getting a bit emotional. I've got to go in and say a massive

thank you to Jane Galloway from Quiet the Hive, who you have

already mentioned, and Lorna Reeves from MyOhMy Events,

because as you will know and this is part of that I

absolutely love the opportunity to collaborate and do hopefully

brilliant and great and creative things with people and as well

as being really good friends Jane and Lorna are also

co-collaborators in another project that I'm involved in and

they are constantly being amazing cheerleaders. They are

never frightened to offer me constructive criticism or

challenge me when they need it. They have been a huge part of

the Cat's Pajamas journey so just a thank you to both of

those amazing women.

Lovely, so I'm going to wrap up things on my

end anyway quite quickly with just a few more names at once.

Sarah Dalrymple and Liz Ellery, they both have become business

buddies since I've launched my business. Liz did all my

branding my website and everything did my photos when I

first started the business and we stayed in touch and we often

run ideas past each other and it's been great to have someone

who's a few steps ahead of me in business. I can just pick up the

phone to or drop a line to and she'll give me advice and steer

me steer me in the direction. And Sarah I've been on a couple

of her courses and she's been a bit of a coach to me in the last

year in terms of really redefining what my offer is and

the services and how I sell with confidence because that was

something that felt a bit icky to me and she she definitely

kind of broke me away from that. So I'm super grateful to the to

them. She's also become a friend that we can bounce ideas and

stuff off with and have co working days and all of that

kind of stuff. And then finally, I'm in a couple of different

masterminds stroke kind of incubator groups. So I've got

the Youpreneur incubator group and colleagues in that

particularly, I want to say thank you to Becca and Bob, both

of whom have given me advice and guidance on this setting up of

this podcast. They've both got their own podcasts and they've

been really, really helpful with the kind of techy stuff and

steering me with how to edit things and what tech I should

use all of that kind of stuff. So really appreciate them. And

Helen Reynolds Comms Business Club as well. They've been

really helpful just to sense check stuff as we've been

setting up this podcast. So wanted to give a big shout out

to them as well.

Brilliant, massive shout outs there and as

you're talking I'm like, oh god, yeah, how can I forget this

person and more people I need to thank. I've got to thank Vicky,

my friend Vicky who when we started out well, when I started

out with Cat's Pajamas and I had to go on Instagram stories and

just talk to myself which was really uncomfortable even as an

extrovert. And then when we started doing our lives was

basically like my chief audience tester who would come back to me

and say, yeah, that was really good. But if you could blink a

bit more, it might look less intense. Or if you could maybe

just when you're walking you're more you're more natural than

when you're just sat there looking at the phone so so she's

definitely been a good person to give yeah, unfiltered as we like

it unfiltered advice and feedback. I'd also like to shout

out Samantha Murfitt from Brighter Splash who is

absolutely one of my most brilliant friends but also, she

supported my rebrand of Cat's Pajamas and development of my

new website with her team, which has been just brilliant. And I

also feel like I should give a little shout out to Daniel

Reynolds who's comms director at NHS Confed at the moment for

being informal. At the moment. I didn't mean that as in like he

won't be soon. I just mean when I met him, he was a comms

director somewhere else. That's what I meant. Yeah, I'm not

breaking news. He's not getting the sack. I hope he's not.

Well, I wasn't even going there. I thought he

might have had a new job but you're just digging a hole now.

I am, I guess, can somebody take this massive

spade off me. Anyway, on a more positive note. The reason I

wanted to give Daniel a shout out is because he's often given

me career advice, comms advice in the various different guises

that I've been able to work with Daniel and he's also been a

massive supporter of Cat's Pajamas as well as communication

as a profession. In the NHS, which is obviously where my day

job sits. So yeah, the list is almost endless, isn't it?

It is yes. I thought you had more on your

list.

I did have more on my list. Can I keep going

keep going keep going? Okay, the more on my list definitely

has to be a shout out for Asif Choudary. I've already mentioned

Comms Hero and Asif is a huge supporter of the profession.

He's been a huge supporter of us. He's absolutely kind enough

to let a feature on Comms Hero Week last year. We're doing it

again this year. So we're gluttons for punishment. Or

maybe Asif is a glutton for punishment who knows? He's

definitely been a massive supporter of How To Take The

Lead which we're very very grateful for. I've got two more

thank yous and then that'll be it. My penultimate thank you

goes to my partner who also has a huge amount of sarcasm that

comes with his support. But definitely has been somebody who

has encouraged me and just enabled me to just go for it and

told me to stop being silly when I've had my big wobble moments.

And he's definitely been a huge supporter, and has had to stay

quiet when we've been doing lives and all sorts of other

things and just rolls with it basically. And I'm very grateful

for that. And then my final thank you, cringy, as it is, is

gonna be to you Lee. I'm just gonna throw it out there. Thank

you for putting up with me, particularly when I'm I'm making

all the gaffs this series. Normally it's you. We've moved

to podcasts and I'm the one getting it all wrong.

There's time, there's time.

There's still time there's plenty of episodes

left but a huge thank you to you for yeah, just going with it

when we had this really out there idea that we were going to

just start talking publicly about some of the things we

usually only talk about over gin, and it's been brilliant.

And I know we've got great things planned for How To Take

The Lead. And I'm really pleased that all that time ago when we

met and we were trying to work out a way that we could work

together. We've finally managed to to make that happen. So huge

thank you and for all your work on the podcast.

Oh well thank you to you too. I couldn't think of

a better person to help me step out of my comfort zone than you

so.

I know love hearts. That's probably enough

as it is probably a bit sick inducing for everybody else

who's listening.

Well, that is the end of the episode is it's much

much much longer than we were anticipating that there's going

to be no maybe six minutes.

Ten maximum, we've we've cracked out a whole

entire episode here like 30 minutes.

But hopefully you've got some really useful

resources there and things to listen to and to read. We'd love

to hear your recommendations of podcasts, books, films, TV, any

murder detective shows, you know.

I wondered where you were going with that

then, any murders you'd like to tell us about please feel free

to just know DM one of us.

I love a bit of true crime. Anyway, we will be

back on Thursday with a new episode. Until then

get out there and take the lead!

Thanks again for listening to today's episode.

Don't forget to hit subscribe so you're the

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If you enjoyed the show, we'd love it if you

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Until next week. Get out there and take the