Decades of climate organizing hasn't really produced many victories to feed off of. Why?

Climate Justice Toronto took a hard look at the environmentalist movement, studied Labour organizing models and decided to undertake a major shift in their work. One that focused on actually challenging points of power while building their own.

Hear how they went from a class-based climate organization to one that is almost entirely dedicated to tenant organizing, without compromising the end goal of defending the planet.

CALL TO ACTION: Sign up for Climate Justice Toronto October 2024 Orientation - Action Network

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Resources:

• Referenced Episode with York-South Weston Tenants Union
• National Observer (Seth Klein) The climate movement must shift gears or it's done
• Instagram: CJTO
• Climate Justice Toronto –Homepage

The people united will never be defeated.

Greetings, friends. My name is Jess McLean, and I'm here to provide you with some blueprints

of disruption. This weekly podcast is dedicated to amplifying the work of activists, examining

power structures, and sharing the success stories from the grassroots. Through these discussions,

we hope to provide folks with the tools and the inspiration they need to start to dismantle

capitalism, decolonize our spaces, and bring about the political revolution that we know

we need. And I think if we and the climate movement want to be able to fight against that, we really

need to organize the majority of society, the working class, the people who really run the

economy when it comes down to it, but are all atomized and isolated and kept apart to be

able to stand together and really fight back. At the end of the day, it's about who in our

society benefits from the resources we have and who gets to make those decisions. And that's

all the same fight. You just heard Aniket, and he was referring to a recent and decisive shift

Climate Justice Toronto took after re-examining their work and that of the climate justice

movement in general. They wondered why, despite all the years and resources spent on the climate

movement, we hadn't won yet. They looked at what might be holding us back. And the answer

they came to, help them refocus, change gears. And in the end, be more effective. So strangely

enough, our next two guests from Climate Justice Toronto won't actually be talking about climate

justice all that much, but they will talk about how to get us there. Both of them do a really

great job explaining just why. You know, when our time is so limited and the fight in front

of us is clearly ongoing, they decided to turn their focus to tenant organizing and why they

think that will actually be the most effective way to protect our planet. Can you introduce

yourself, please? Hi, I'm Violet. I am one of the two chairs on CJTO's housing organization.

You know, I'm sort of one of the people that like sets up stuff like meetings for us and

stuff like that, and a little bit of like strategic direction, but really we're quite a democratic

organization. Kind of everybody does everything. Yeah, I've been there before. Aniket, what

about you? Yeah, hi, my name is Aniket. I'm one of the two co-chairs of the steering committee

at Climate Justice Toronto right now. I've been part of CJTO for a couple of years now since

2021. CJTO was founded originally in 2019. It was a really different kind of political moment

back then, I think it came up. when there's all of the excitement around the climate strikes,

the climate election in Canada, there's very public narrative around like, we only have

like 12 years left, we need a Green New Deal, we need to decarbonize the economy. All of

that's still true, but I think it was really kind of the centerpiece of our political discourse

at that point. And so it was founded then through a lot of activists who came to the Power Shift

conference in Ottawa at that time, eventually got involved in the climate strikes, sweats,

sweat and protests, Black Lives Matter, kind of took a bit of a dip through the pandemic

and then started in earnest again back in 2022. And I've seen it really grow and evolve as

an organization and very happy. And it's kind of current. campaign, which we're going to

talk a lot about today. When I reached out to you, you know, you guys are called Climate

Justice Toronto. And I was surprised in your reply, not that you didn't agree to come on

because here you are. But you're like, yes, we would love to come on. However, just so

you know, we've kind of shifted in our focus a little bit. And let's unpack. Can we unpack

that before we get into the details of that campaign you're so excited about? Maybe I can

start off by giving us some of the high level and then maybe Violet, if you wanna get into

the weeds after. Yeah, so I think the kind of point we've been at for a while and over the

last few years is really thinking about the kind of wins and also losses of the climate

movement. I think that when we look at the kind of things in 2019 that the climate movement

was demanding. I think we have to be honest with ourselves that we've achieved very little.

At most, we've had the carbon tax and some decarbonization measures. I don't even think the carbon tax

is that great as policy anyway, but that's a separate conversation. But there's no Green

New Deal. There's no mass expansion of housing. There's no winding down of the fossil fuel

industry. There's no mass expansion of transit. You know, like... We're on the eve of a conservative

majority government that's probably gonna wash away any of the very modest wins that have

happened. You're saying this all with a smile on your face. It sounds very doom and gloom,

but don't worry, we're getting there. We're getting there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't worry.

Just wait. But I think on one hand, we haven't won those material things, but I think there

has been a meaningful narrative shift. I mean, people do talk about inequality, about the

climate, and people really, I think, have started to see a lot of these issues. together a lot

more and also started to be a bit more critical of, you know, why haven't we won yet? I think

there was this, a couple weeks ago, or maybe it was two weeks ago, there was actually a

piece in The National Observer by Seth Klein, who's a kind of prominent figure in like the

NGO left world. And you know, I think that kind of shows, and it was critical of the climate

movement, you know, it was like, I think the title was literally something like we need

to change course or like we're doomed. Like the climate movement is not succeeding as it's.

And you know, I think that was also, the piece was also really revealing because on one hand,

it really, I think addressed a lot of how we haven't gone big enough, we haven't gone far

enough. But you know, I think if you like hit control F and like look for power or working

class or something, you won't find it in that piece. And I think that's also revealing of

like how the climate movement. I think has not developed a good enough theory of power and

really why it is we're in this kind of mess here and how we've landed here after decades.

And how to also get out of that, because I think there's a lot to draw on historically. I mean,

the healthcare system we have, as much of a mess it is right now, it didn't come from nowhere.

You know, our modest social security, modest welfare state, that didn't come from nowhere.

You know, there are... real serious labor organizing efforts around a century ago that really laid

the foundation for a lot of that. And I think, you know, at CJTO, I think the big kind of

shift we've made and has really driven our kind of approach to building our campaigns now is

that if we want to win, we need to build power because the reason that we are in this mess

is because of the people with power, people who run our society. they get to make all the

decisions. You know, they get to expand the fossil fuel industry. They get to hike up rents.

They get to build housing for profit. They get to decide everything because they have all

of the power. And I think if we and the climate movement want to be able to fight against that,

we really need to organize the majority of society, the working class, the people who really run

the economy when it comes down to it, but are all atomized and isolated and kept apart to

be able to stand together and really fight. And perhaps you felt like organizing strictly

around, not that you folks were ever very narrow minded about what you would get involved in,

but just mobilizing around climate justice wasn't effective enough to mobilize the working class

in the way that they needed to be. I think it's not even, it's that and more, you know, I think

it's that. you need to be able to mobilize people to action. But I think we also have to realize

that a lot of people are not quote unquote political in the same way. And unless we're really organizing

and bringing new people into the movement and bringing new people out to take action, we

just won't have the power to win at the end of the day. And again, I'm not really saying

anything novel here. It's like the classic. labor organizing, movement building playbook.

You have to build a bigger constituency that's willing to be confident and confrontational.

And that comes through years and years of organizing, but you have to be willing to grow and really

pull people in and be really smart about that. Yeah, I'd also throw in that I think, you know,

one of the wonderful things about climate change, to put it that way, is that it touches every

aspect of society, right? And... that includes sort of like real estate speculation for like

farmland and who gets to like own that land. Just kind of all of these various different

aspects where really like our entire kind of like productive and capital accumulation system

is broken and is kind of like what's at fault, right? And so I think you can just kind of

seize the beast from like any end and start like attacking it there and just kind of like

get political. political winds that, like Anika was saying, kind of like build power for like

a broader constituency without necessarily having to go to people with like a climate agenda,

right? And it remains a climate agenda because you're just like attacking the powers that

have made things like this. And so how did this knowledge, right? And this kind of tactical

awareness shift your focus into tenant organizing, which is, you know. where we were teasing the

audience. That's where we're going, by the way. We just kind of found ourselves working with

different organizations. One of them was the New York Southwest and Tenants Union. And I

think we had some very formative moments with them. They're contagious. You know, I mean,

I think me talking to them a few times now. And when I emailed you, I talked about you

guys give off really kind of tenant class vibes, or kind of that reawakening of how we can imagine

ourselves as a working class. And yeah, Bruno has that impact on me as well. Yeah, they're

the best, right? They're very, I think they're militant. I think they're very like pragmatic

in terms of what needs to get done and organizing people. And so I think being in contact with

them, there was an eviction defense that happened. in December that maybe some people kind of

like followed on socials. That I think was like a really formative moment for CJTO of just

like understanding, oh, we can win here, right? Like we can win in this arena and there's like

energy and there's people that are like willing to work with us to find solutions. And it's,

you know, this is kind of weird, but it's a little bit more green field than like labor

organizing. And so people aren't as inoculated. The adversary isn't as prepared. I, you can

kind of like get these wins in ways where like, if you're trying to do labor organizing, I

think is a little bit more difficult. And so I think we just kind of like entered the new

year with an idea of how do we extend, um, the New York Southwest and Tenants Union capacity

into sort of leveraging the context that they have to like organize on their behalf. Right.

And. Once we started doing that, I think we learned that we had all of these kind of like

skills that are, that are very transferable to sort of doing organizing, right? And part

of it is just like knocking on doors, talking to tenants, recruiting people, sort of doing

this kind of like, you know, face-to-face like explanation work, this kind of like agitation

work. But there's also just like undifferentiated. sort of like clerical work, right? For me to

knock on your door, I need like a printed sheet that you can sign onto, and then we need to

take your email address and your phone number somewhere and put it in a spreadsheet so we

can contact you. And those are all things that we can all do as sort of like CJTO members,

and in so doing kind of make these organizations happen in the buildings, right? And I think

that's... you know, we've sort of been discovering over the course of this year, um, the extent

to which we can actually given a few kind of like tenants, um, in the building that want

to organize, show up and work with them and, and really make it happen for them. So would

you say that you're almost taking that York Southwestern model, although they wouldn't

take credit solely for creating the model, but that you witnessed and trying to replicate

it as well as bolster the work of that wonderful group? Yeah, I think definitely. I think both

YSW and us, I think, just want to find ways to engage people such that they spontaneously

want to organize in these ways. And they want to form tenant associations in their building

and resist things with landlords and network with other tenant associations and find points

of solidarity. If you and I have the same landlord, then it's in our interest to work together,

even if we're not faced with the exact same maintenance issues or rent issues or whatever

it is, right? And so I think, yeah, we definitely are just like looking for ways to sort of extend

that model geographically throughout the city to sort of really, yeah, just use our people

in the most efficient ways to make these organizations work and be able to resist landlords. Is there

any pocket of the city that's really untouched when it comes to tenant organizing? Or would

you say, you know, all neighborhoods have examples to look to? Honestly, I'd say a lot of the

city is not organized. I think like, I think that there's- Not. Yeah, yeah. You know, I

think there's, there's a lot of community groups in the city and a lot of like them do tenant

organizing. And I think that's great. And I think that's really important, but- I think

every group in the city is quite small, at most in a few buildings. There isn't a big city-wide,

province-wide national movement that they can tie in too easily and work together on. And

I think that on one hand, that's really daunting because we're in buildings, York Southwestern

is in buildings, there's other groups in the city in buildings. And they're building up

lots of exciting organizing and power as well, but we're very small. You know, I think we

have to be very honest with ourselves that we don't have too, too much power and that there's

still a lot we can do. I think on the other hand, you know, and part of why in CJTO we

really dived into this housing campaign is because I think it really suits the political moment

as well. Like, you know, I think the two big issues that people will talk about right now

are either like the war in Gaza or Like, I think those are the kind of two captivating progressive

issues right now. And you know, there's a lot of organizing on the former, but I think there's

a lot less housing organizing going on. You know, I don't think there are real, like, I

don't think there's enough, like, effort to build, like, real widespread tenant unions.

There's not, like, big campaigns going around in, like, every neighborhood of the city. or

the province or the country. But everyone talks about housing. Everyone's rent is too high.

Cost of living is awful. No one can afford a place to live. And I think that also really

gives us as organizers a very exciting opportunity, because I think as much as we have all our

idealism, it is always a really hard sell sometimes, especially if your issue that you're working

around isn't in the limelight. But housing is, like you don't need to convince someone that

their living situation is bad and too expensive because it is, like it sucks right now. I remember

one time I was canvassing in York Southwestern when the rent strikes were really going strong

and I knocked on some person's door, she didn't answer. I go to like another part of the floor

and suddenly this lady's chasing after me and I'm worried because I'm like, oh, she's gonna

call the cops on me. She's like, where's the Red Strike card? Like, I want to join right

now. And it's like, you know, it's like such a, like you don't expect that, but I think

it really speaks to kind of the, both despair and the opportunity that there is right now.

Oh, I totally get it. I get so excited when I think of tenant organizing and I know like

Acorn Ontario is doing a lot, but can you maybe explain what it means to be in a building,

you know, for folks who aren't savvy perhaps all the, what tenant organizing is. So when

you say, you know, organizations are small, they're only in a couple of buildings. What's

that, what does that mean to be in a building? Yeah, so I think ultimately, you know, individual

buildings have individual issues that they're facing that can be sort of like maintenance

things, the above the guideline increases that landlords can sometimes put in. And so I think

to be in a building, right, is to have a presence where you're able to mobilize tenants against

those issues. Right. And that takes, I think, many, many forms, but I think the main thing

that, that we kind of like rely on is the idea that there's a few tenants in the building

that are willing to put in the work, to talk to their neighbors, to sort of like. Feel them

out for where they're at and then be able to determine as, as really like a collective of

tenants. what their course of action is going to be vis-a-vis these issues. Sometimes that

happens with our advice and involvement, and we suggest things like put together petitions

for the landlord, find ways to pressure them in the media, all of these kind of political

pressure tactics that we can employ to go against the landlord. But really, I think there's like

a broad spectrum of activities that this entails, right? Not just kind of like that political

pressure, but also just having like a social presence, right? And being able to throw like

a little ice cream social for the neighbors, mixers for people to just like interact with

one another and sort of have this kind of community there, right? I think ultimately what we're

trying to build is just. buildings where people have strong links to one another and are able

to show up for one another, whether that be in very like personal, hey, I need help with

this kinds of ways, or just like, oh, they filed another above the guideline increase, what

are we gonna do about it? I think a lot of organizers, especially if they've worked on political campaigns,

will recognize that model a little bit of having a building lead or just starting with a singular

point person. in a building to help mobilize to whichever end. You know, in an election,

it might be just to knock on their door on E-Day to remind them to go vote. But in this case,

it's a little more personal. But it's just to, I think, demonstrate that it can start with

one person in a building with a model and some assistance. So definitely exciting when you

think, not to diminish your work, but how easy it was. could be to replicate this over and

over again, especially when you know how excited people get when they see it being done, especially

when they get to see victories or pushbacks against landlords. I don't know, I think everyone

likes a good fuck the landlord story, honestly, because I've rented many, many times throughout

my life. I've never had a good landlord once. I'm not, even now it's getting horrible with

folks who can't even name. who owns the property, like who to deal with. It's a numbered company.

It seems so formidable, but not until you see people doing it. So I can also understand that

proxy to York Southwestern's resistance against that particular eviction. We had Bruno on to

tell that story and I watched it on the Instagram Live. I think I alternated between your live.

and York Southwestens live, honestly, on that night. And Santiago was there, so I was trying

to tell him what was happening before he got there and everything. So I do remember using

you as a resource, so thank you. And I got really energized, and then to hear the whole story

and it was a victory that night. Yeah, it goes, I think, back to what Anna Kitt was saying

at the very beginning in measuring the wins and losses. And it's hard not to gravitate

towards what seems to be a proven model. But are you folks going to have to change your

name? Have you abandoned? And I abandoned sounds so harsh because we do talk like and you can

develop on how building a tenant class, a working class is part of the climate justice struggle.

But, you know, it kind of seems tactically you've really shifted away from that. Is that is that

accurate? And are you going to have to change your name and all that? You know, maybe just

before I get to that, I do think your point about how there's a lot to rely on here is

really true here. I think that it can feel very daunting to think about, how do I organize

a building? How do I build up the housing movement? And so on and so forth. But what we're doing

is not new. A lot of the methods we take, we just take straight out of the labor organizing

playbook. I think many of us are familiar with Jane McAlevey's style of organizing, and there's

so many others, like LaborNotes has many methods. And all of those methods still apply when we

talk about going into a building. It's the same as going into a workplace. Instead of confronting

the boss, you're confronting the landlord. Instead of building a majority of workers, you're building

a majority of tenants. It is really similar in that way. I think maybe the only maybe difference

is sometimes it like a building campaign can be much longer I think, you know, a workplace

campaign because you know, maybe there's 20, 30 people sometimes and unions are illegal,

like protected process like that can move much faster sometimes but it's not, it's not, we're

not like making something from scratch like there's a lot to go off of. And I think that

does give us a lot to stand on. But I think also, it is a conversation all the time in

CJTO of, how much of a climate org are we? I think a lot of us see ourselves broadly identifying

with building the working class, with a more socialist movement. But I don't think those

things are exclusive. I think to Violent's point earlier, I think one of the- failures of the

climate movement at points was to kind of look too narrowly toward climate itself. And I think

that really started to change around 2019 and 2018 with the kind of rhetoric around the Green

New Deal. Because when we talk about, say, the fossil fuel industry, housing, transit, social

security, and so on and so forth, or social welfare. At the end of the day, it's about

who in our society benefits from the resources we have and who gets to make those decisions.

And that's all the same fight. Even in building campaigns we have, sometimes there are issues

about overheating, sometimes there's issues about flooding and protections for that, and

the amount of regulations that exist for these things. So even if every single issue is not

a climate issue... At the same time, those climate issues come up naturally, and the kind of power

that we have to build through these campaigns and building up the housing movement is gonna

directly benefit all the fights of the left more broadly. So, I think it's an open question

where we go, but I think the one lesson I'll take from all the history books I've read is

it's better when the left works together than splinters apart. Yeah, and I will say, I think,

this allows us to be more of a big tent kind of movement. I think however we kind of cut

it, climate is gonna long-term be the issue of our lifetimes. It's such a big problem,

it's so totalizing, and it affects so many aspects of society that it is just gonna be a huge

fight. And so I think even things like, well, because of the climate catastrophe, now there

are... more asylum seekers and that puts pressure on housing. And so how do we resolve that in

a way that's humane and actually functional and doesn't tear apart our societies? And I

think having a bit of a climate, maybe not a focus, but a sort of impetus from this concept

of climate justice is sort of like helps us be. more aware of just everything in general.

I think it helps us jump into different aspects of the fight in a very generic way without

having to worry about, oh, but we're a housing org. Can we really do labor organizing? Can

we really do work around Palestine? This kind of thing. I think like one of the key points

that you folks have made there is that... that understanding of where power is and how badly

that is needed in the climate justice. Although housing can be more appealing because politically

people are talking about it now, or because it's such a necessity for folks, it's such

a fever pitch, you know, materially that you can't not talk about it. But in that same sense

that when we organize... from a capitalist model and like fail to change that. We end up with

these market-based solutions, like the carbon tax that we sit and waste and bicker over when

it's kind of here and neither are there. But often, often even the victories that are secured

are market-based and that just prolongs the problem. I know you know that, right? Probably

the audience knows that too. But when you see how some climate justice campaigns are, structured,

it seems like they don't know it or they know it, but it's just too daunting to perhaps try

to fight capitalism and climate justice at the same time, you know, as a larger organization.

So it seems like you've always, I mean, your Instagram describes the group as a membership

led democratic organization fighting for transformative class based climate action. So that class-based,

always class-based, but it has to have that consciousness as well. And you seem to have

taken it upon yourselves to raise the consciousness of the community. You folks held a socialist

school. For sure. I think the thing to always keep in mind is like, as organizers, our real

ability is to intervene in working class struggles and build up power and really... show people

the power that they have when they stand together and show them that they can really build up

that confidence and really confront power that their boss, their landlord and things that

they really toil and suffer under. But I think the other side of that, and I think this is

really important for us both in CJITO, but I think a bigger lesson for the left is that

we also need to have something we're working toward. You know, it can't just be that we're

against this, we're against that. You know, we also wanna have like social housing for

all. We also wanna have like great places and neighborhoods to live in. We also wanna have

like a very livable economy and livable society. And I think that was, you know, the socialist

summer school we had this year was the kind of second iteration of that. And you know,

I think it was a bit driven by, you know, we wanna bring it more. into the organizing we're

doing right now. Last year when we did it, it was very exciting and fun, but I think it was

also a bit more removed from any organizing going on. I think it just ended up being more

of a discussion group, which was valuable in some ways. But this time, you know, we made

an effort to bring out more community members, more organizers, some tenants from New York

Southwestern. And so what we ended up doing, and Bruno, who you had on... a previous podcast

helped was one of the main organizers of that as well as a collaboration between us and the

Tenant Union in York Southwest. We basically just over three sessions walked through what

does it mean to be a tenant? What are the kind of stereotypes people have? What are landlords?

What are the stereotypes people have of that? Why is there inequality? Why do you identify

with each other? What do you... see like why the landlords get to make all of these decisions

and kind of walk through that as a group with people from different life experiences, different

levels of political understanding, but nonetheless, you know, all sharing this kind of common idea

that we have more together that we share as tenants and, you know, people who want a better

society and that we can all see that it isn't fair. that a couple of landlords and developers

basically have to dictate the terms of the housing economy. And then, you know, really starting

to think about both from the experiences in New York Southwestern, but also in other parts

of the world and history as well, like how do you really fight back against that? What was

the reception like from participants? I think it was really good. You know, I think it was

like a small group of like 20-ish, 15-ish people, which is like a nice... cozy group to have

like a discussion with. And it was good. I think we had a lot of people participate. You know,

I think one of the things is that, I think you can really forget this when you're like an

organizer and activist, but like a lot of people have not done any kind of community organizing

before and aren't always comfortable really talking about their politics and society and

the way they feel, even if they have lots of. really well thought out opinions on that. So

I think it was really, I could really see the way over a few sessions, which some people

who are maybe less experienced, I'm putting that in air quotes, because I think that's

a kind of misleading term in some ways, but you know, how they really kind of stepped into

their own over like two or three sessions and started to be able to talk more and articulate

their ideas more. And also, you know, kind of see as well. that it's not just them. There's

a lot of other people in the same boat as them as well, and there's something to do about

that. And I really wanna emphasize that, that doesn't come through a school itself. I think

the basis of that really comes from the organizing on the ground, but it is nice to be able to

then have a nice place to chat and reflect about that. Well, I was going to say, if you're seeing

those kinds of experiences, it means you folks were successful in creating. a safe, welcoming

space as well as an informative one, because it's, like you say, it's a two-fold project,

right? Not to just politicize people, which is like very important, right? It's making

those connections. But one can't happen without the other, right? You can't start to share

and percolate those discussions if everyone's not kind of feeling like... it's all right.

I mean, it's a tough political climate these days. Definitely. Violet, you are a building

lead. Did you want to talk about your buildings campaign specifically, and maybe talk about

how it went from maybe just you to wherever you folks are at now? Absolutely. So I started

organizing the building I live in May. I live in the Davisville area, so sort of like Midtown.

And we just started organizing sort of like around an AGI that had been filed and sort

of like a number of different things. There's like no AC in the building. And I think as

a climate org at first that was like a very. attractive kind of like issue to bring up,

right? It was May and we were looking forward to a very hot summer and so just kind of like

surfacing this. What's an AGI for folks I don't know? What's an AGI? An AGI is an Above the

Guideline Rent Increase. So the government of Ontario sets a guideline that is 2.5% this

year that is supposed to be how much they can increase your rent by to

If that weren't enough, I guess. And there is a whole process that landlords can go through,

or they can file for additional rent increases over the guideline, where ostensibly they have

to prove that an investment was made into the building, this ATI that is affecting my building

was for a boiler replacement, so there were folks who would have not had hot water had

that work not gone in and... The province considers that that's a fair reason to raise our rents,

right? Which is obviously a little bit ridiculous because what investment really has been made

into the building, the functionality that was there before is still there. The boiler reached

its end of life. There's like a greenwashing thing here going on as well, where you make

a claim that it's like, well, but we granified the boiler. It uses less energy than it did

before. So to save them money in the long term. Indeed, yes, it'll save them money in the long

term. And so therefore they should get to charge us more money. And this is kind of the logic

that the province operates under, right? So anyway, because I live in the building, I think

one thing that we found is that it's easier for me to recruit my neighbors. And so we formed

an association. There's several of us now that live in the building involved in the association.

So we're just like doing, you know, figuring out how are we going to tackle this AGI thing?

What kind of pressure are the tenants in the building comfortable exerting? And how can

we bring them along to a militant approach to this? How can we help them understand the kinds

of gains that we can make if we're willing to go the full nine yards with organizing this?

And then just some very meat and potatoes things that sometimes happen, right? Where it's like,

I have a neighbor that has a water leak in her unit, and it has gone on address now for three

years, and it's just leaking into her child's bedroom. There's mold on the ceiling, it's

a mess. And so that's one person's problem, but as an association, we need to be able to

take care of that. So that's sort of like, I think, the kind of like association side of

things, the tenant association side of things. From like a CJTO perspective, I am the building

lead for the campaign, hey, it's where I live. I have a co-lead that is working with me, that's

just a CJTO person doesn't live in the building. And what CJTO kind of like provides is this

kind of like undifferentiated labor, right? So boots on the ground to turn off, to knock

on doors. It's, we otherwise would have, I think, about three door knockers that live in the

building. And it's really, really tough to knock on every door in a building with three people

in one night. Um, whereas if we can pull in, you know, five, six CJTO volunteers, that's

really super helpful, right? Um, there's kind of like clerical work, data entry, landlord

research, all of these tasks that can sort of like be distributed to housing members in a

way that supports, um, the association's goals and that kind of like allows us to, to pursue

this. Right. Um, and I think this is really, this feels very much like the kind of like

beta run. for what we want to start doing as an organization now is finding people who are

willing and ready to organize and just like ready to jump in and then assigning them CJTO

help, assigning them CJTO leads, we're just gonna be like a touch point for like, oh, can

you get like just some research on my landlord? Can you help me understand how many buildings

they own, where those buildings are, who the key people are? Can you maybe help me get into

touch with some of the folks in those buildings, all of that kind of stuff. is kind of like

what CJTO is able to provide. And that's kind of a very long winded answer to your question

of what a building lead is, right? I think we give people a lot of autonomy to just be like,

hey, here's the phone number of a tenant in this building. There's the building. The three

of you go talk to the person and go figure out what it takes to get a tenant association spun

up and get them like militant and get them fighting the landlord. Hello, you're just so very blunt.

Let's see how we can get started and then how we can get the militant. OK, like I know it's

not like doesn't happen like that. Not everyone's like, let's try. I mean, that's where we're

headed. And but, you know, Bruno talked about that in blueprints of a rent strike. And we

will link that though. They do get there. Yeah. Goes back to sometimes just creating third

spaces, getting to know your neighbors a little more recruiting one by one. I guess eventually

violate your goal would be to, you know, in. Ideally get someone from the building to start

taking over the roles that CJTO is filling in so that they can then go replicate on another

building and rinse and repeat over and over again. But you also act as a bit of a staffing

agency for a lot of the great organizations in the city, right? Like York Southwestern,

but that isn't the only organization you folks act in solidarity with, is it? Or is it? I

think today it might be other than individual tenant associations that we work with. And

I think the staffing agency model is a very good description of what we want to do for

the associations. But yeah. Okay. I didn't know if I was being rude. I think that's fantastic

because I don't think I've talked to a group that plays that role, but it's entirely fitting

with... one of the themes that we talk about a lot of not repeating unnecessary work, right?

Like not trying to recreate a model as though it doesn't already exist, right? So to both

bolster those efforts that you admire and not worry about like trying to make it your own

immediately, right? Like that it's this kind of learning curve, right? Eventually, like

you kind of drift into your Southwest Intent Union. learn and morph into something different,

but eventually you won't drift away, but it'll be a much bigger branching off. Right? Totally.

And you've spoke to a big vacuum that exists that has my brain percolating now of the absence

of a national network or clear provincial network. I know... A lot of you folks are talking to

each other, you know each other, and hopefully you like call each other and ask questions

and once in a while. But even I was talking to, I think Santiago and going, you know, they

need like a place, a space where they can come together and kind of bounce all of these ideas

off of one another and their failures and victories. And they don't. I don't know. I wouldn't try

that. This is what happens when we do that. And, you know. I hope that exists on some level,

but I think maybe if everybody assumes that it'll just exist nobody will create it, but

you know, we all have our hands full. But you know, it is a bit of a, I think a need just

hearing how much you folks have learned from working with other people and the capacity

that you'll be able to have moving forward for building, you know, what I think I'm just referring

to as the tenant class. I think yeah, it's. And it also spoke to the opponent not being

as well prepared, although you follow this labor model and it might take longer. It does take

longer. There is that benefit that it's not an untried avenue, but it's almost like that

sneaking in the side door. You know, we've tried to mobilize the working class. with a labor

focus, but as we know, like not everybody is in a workplace or in a workplace that can easily

be unionized, like the more precarious employment is and shift work and all that, it becomes

even more difficult. But everyone lives somewhere and more and more and more of us are becoming

part of the tenant class in fact, right? So finding a way to use our power to push against

theirs, perhaps at a point that hasn't really felt enough pressure, right? talk about how

our municipalities are structured and the influence of developers and real estate investors have

on our politicians and our homes, it's, they've clearly gone unchecked for too long. The landlord

class. And I'll say, this is kind of where the education piece comes back in, right? Like

where, so we're currently running three campaigns and... every building is totally different.

And so we're able to sit down and compare notes and compare tactics and be like, well, what

do you, what did you try that didn't work? How can we engage people? How can we mobilize people?

Why are, like, why are you having these issues mobilizing people and they over there are not?

And how can we understand how these two buildings are different or how the tactics have differed?

And I think... over time, we're just gonna collect like a real playbook of how to do this, right?

And I think where we're gonna be happiest is we can't be going into every building in town

that's out of the question. We need people to sort of come to us and want to learn our tactics,

our expertise, right? And so that we can just provide them with a playbook and begin to provide

them with a bit of a network through that same kind of like educational. program that we can

put together for them and just really spread the word, right? Is really what it is. It's

kind of crazy, but I think there's probably people everywhere in Toronto that are sitting

around thinking, God, I hate my landlord. I wish I could fucking do something about this.

And we just need to get them the information for how you can, in fact, do something about

this. Right. I think. Yeah, there's not too much of a distinction in my mind between our

organizing work on the ground, knocking on doors, and then telling people about knocking on doors.

Right? I think they're both a way to build up that power. I think it's also worth noting

that it's, again, something that a lot of organizers have been doing recently. I think I take a

lot of inspiration from the Starbucks unionization campaign in the states over these last few

years. It's a different game. They had like salts, they had big unions backing them in

the background. But when they had those early victories, they really... I was reading some

interviews with those organizers and they made a very clear tactical decision that we do not

have enough paid staffers to support a national campaign. We're going to just take the workers

who just unionized and pair them up with someone in a different workplace and just let it go.

You know, like that's what they did. Like reading buddies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like organizer buddies.

Yeah, yeah. And you know, it really propelled that forward. And of course, like no two cases

are the same. You always have to be creative and strategic. But you know, I think that kind

of considering the scale of housing right now, like, and you know, we're not gonna, one building

at our time, our way to fixing this or getting power. So, you know, I think the move is really

gonna be as we start to develop that confidence, as we start to build up more organizers, how

can we really propel like tenants to take the lead as well in organizing both their own buildings

and really inspiring and helping out with other building campaigns going forward? You don't

give off the, I need to build up my confidence vibe, at least not the two of you in here.

I mean, I really get this feeling and this excitement that you both have to where you're gonna be.

where CJTO is going to be and what its impact is going to be. You folks looking to recruit

more people on October 19th? That is. Maybe, because this is also very contagious. I am

going to leave the studio in a really good mood. Like, I can't. I don't know, maybe it's just

because it's Friday. I mean, maybe you can come to orientation. You know what? I have the date

marked down. I don't live in the city, but I do make the occasional trip. And I am stoked

about tenant organizing right now, just in general. So although a bit of me was like, oh, it's,

you know, another tenant organizing. I'm going to get another tenant organization because,

you know, you know, my show, I try to talk to like all kinds of like a broad issue, but I

am really obsessed with it right now just because of. all the things I've already said, so I

won't repeat that. But then when you spoke of this transition too, I was just like, this

is really meaningful. I think this, and it's so mature, I think of an organization that

has put a lot of their identity, I mean, your name at least, into climate justice. But then

to reevaluate where the gains were being made and how you could change tack to get where

you needed to go ultimately. Anyway, yeah, I just wanted to add that in. Tell us more about

the orientation so everyone else that's in the area will join you. Yeah, absolutely. I mean,

so we'll be having our orientation on October 19th. It'll be at noon. It'll be downtown in

Toronto at the CSI Spadina. I'm sure there'll be a link somewhere afterward, which I can

send Jessa. You know, I think it's a really easy way to get involved. Like we really try,

we really revamped it to be a kind of like more social community event and really kind of get

people in the door, get people excited, get people like out to their first canvas. And

you know, I think like both Violet and I have said, there's so much work to do and like,

and this is true of all organizing, but like more people's always better. If... if people

want to get involved, there is things to do. I promise you there is stuff to do. You will

not be bored. I think the other side of that is, we are a membership democratic organization.

Housing is our only campaign right now, but I think there's a future where we also have

more campaigns as well. We did briefly try out some stuff with labor and transit, and for

different reasons, it didn't work out. In the past, we have... we were involved in the municipal

election in 2022. So, you know, while I think housing is our main campaign right now, I think

there's also a lot of opportunity for people who might join through housing, but might see

another organizing opportunity to also develop like a future part of CJTO. I think what's

really lacking in my opinion in Toronto, but also Canada is some kind of left-wing organization

that can really bring together a lot of campaigns. and a lot of things under a common banner.

So, you know, as much as we can try to build that, I hope that people are down to do that,

both through us and other orgs. Oh, that is, I feel like that is like the, that pinned item,

right? Like we all have these things. Yeah, I'm like, don't mention the NDP, don't mention

the NDP. No, no, I don't have time for that. You don't want me going there, but you know,

that just. Just when we think we have maybe something fitting that role, we're like, no,

no. So yeah, I don't think many people are going to disagree with you on that point. I guess

that is another episode. Yeah. I mean, I'd love to talk about why we need something like the

DSA in Canada or something like that. But that's another episode for sure. It is, but I do have

your email address. So I do have that discussion. You can just come right back on and we'll have

it. So I'm not dismissing it. Yeah. Anytime. Awesome. Nice. Yeah. Next next week's episode.

You already got it, guys. You also have general meetings. So if you're in the show notes, please

always check the show notes. Links to these people's social media will be there, but also

the RSVP to the event that they're talking about. I'll even. We'll even link that Seth Klein

article for reference, but just keep in mind, Aniket's commentary on it, because it doesn't

quite fit the path that we're talking about here in terms of building working class power,

attending class power, but I really do wanna thank you folks for doing the work that you're

doing on the ground. Like I said, I'm very excited about it. Santiago, I know, will be very excited

to listen back to this episode. I'm here. what you folks are doing. And I'll be even more

tuned to your IG, but you might see their October 19th as well. And yeah, just thanks for coming

on and sharing the journey of the organization. I think there's lots of folks that it'll resonate

with as organizers, right? Even if they don't take the same path you folks did, but just

being able to reevaluate and... make sure what we're doing is valuable for the bigger picture,

right, rather than short-term gains or whatnot, that it is kind of ideologically driven to,

as an anti-capitalist movement as well. But yeah, thank you, Valulet and Aniket. Definitely.

Thank you. Well, thank you so much for having us. It was a great opportunity. Oh, yeah. No,

the pleasure is mine. Thank you. That is a wrap on another episode of Blueprints of Disruption.

Thank you for joining us. Also, a very big thank you to the producer of our show, Santiago Jaluc

Quintero. Blueprints of Disruption is an independent production operated cooperatively. You can

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