Would you ever help someone you love if you had the chance? 

At first, that might feel like a naive question; of course the answer is “yes.” But what if the “someone” is Earth itself? And what about those moments when we unintentionally harm someone we love—out of ignorance, habit, or even fear? In this Earth Day episode, we re-introduce the environment not as an abstract issue or distant crisis, but as a relationship. Like any relationship, it’s layered with emotions: love in the warmth of summer, detachment in the cold of winter, or refreshing hope carried by the wind. 

In this episode, we discuss the misconceptions that make students feel helpless, the discouragement that comes when efforts seem too small, and the emotional weight of caring about the planet in a world that sometimes dismisses those concerns. We also spoke about how fear and avoidance are part of the spectrum of climate emotions; reminding us that hesitation doesn’t always come from indifference. And we broaden the conversation beyond climate, recognizing that environmental well-being also means thinking about the spaces we create, the communities we nurture, and the ways these environments shape our everyday well-being.  

Together with Nicole Arsenault, Director of Sustainability at York University and a proud graduate of both Glendon and the Faculty of Environmental and Urban Change, our host Susu B explores how environmental well-being goes far beyond climate change. It shows up in our daily lives—in our study spaces, our homes, and our campus, and it deeply affects our mental and physical health.   

Resources:

https://www.yorku.ca/sustainability/ 

https://www.yorku.ca/sustainability/earth-month/ 

Sustainability Tips: https://www.yorku.ca/sustainability/resources-links/ 

Sustainability Strategy - https://www.yorku.ca/sustainability/priorities/sustainability-strategy/ 

Susu B.: Hey, you. Welcome to your future favorite podcast, if it's not already Well-being and YU with your host, Susu B. As summer approaches, I've been reflecting on my past summers here.

Susu B.: The green spaces that slowly take over our campus so effortlessly that it's hard to believe that it was all covered in snow just a few months ago. The shade from the trees providing a moment of relief during midday walks. Or even the sound of birds singing as we wait for the bus. But I'd be lying if I didn't also remember the heat waves that left us clinging to our AC units. Or the days when the air quality warnings made it harder to breathe. Especially for those of us with allergies like myself. Our summers, winters, falls and springs, all of them are all shaped by one thing. Environmental well-being. Environmental well-being isn't just about long-term goals or distant, planetary survival. It's about the air we breathe today, the spaces we move through, and the emotional responses we carry with us. And while it can all be overwhelming to think about climate change or carbon emissions, and sometimes we wonder whether anything we do can really make a difference, environmental wellness is broader than we might think and more helpful than we often realize. Whether it's a boost in mood and mental clarity, improved cardiovascular health and overall physical wellness, or even sharper thinking and intellectual well-being, the environment we live in has the power to enhance our well-being in ways we might not even notice until we do.

Susu B.: In this episode, I had the distinct pleasure of speaking with Nicole Arsenault. Nicole is the Director of Sustainability at York University. She also graduated from Glendon and the Faculty of Environmental and Urban Change. I really hope you can join us on this journey. A few mindful minutes can really make a difference. So, let's dive into our conversation with Nicole.

Susu B.: Nicole, how are you doing today?

Nicole: I'm great. How are you?

Susu B.: I'm feeling wonderful. It's a sunny day outside and I'm just excited because the sunny days always remind me of the sustainability stuff that we're going to talk and unpack today because there's a lot to unpack. So, we'll get right into it, shall we?

Nicole: Awesome. Sounds good. Thanks for having me here.

Susu B.: Yeah, of course.

Susu B.: Thank you for coming to start us off. I believe there is a misconception that environmental well-being is just about climate change. while that is a big part of the picture, what else does environmental well-being involve and how does it show up in our everyday lives?

Nicole: That's a great question. and you're absolutely right. Climate change is a major part of the conversation. but environmental well-being really goes far beyond that. It really includes everything that contributes to a healthy, balanced relationship between humans and the natural world. this involves things like clean air, water, biodiversity, sustainable land use, waste, management, even access to green space. in our everyday lives. When we think about environmental well-being, it can really show up in simple yet impactful ways. for example, the quality of the air that we breathe, that can have an impact on our physical well-being, our mental well-being, thinking about our urban areas where there's pollution. These are all ways that our environment is impacted by the natural world around us and how it impacts us as humans, impacts biodiversity. Having access to natural spaces, that can really help boost our mental health as well. thinking about here on campus, we've got some great, areas where we've got natural spaces, spaces where people, people can go for a walk by the strong pond. So that you know, that can help in terms of mental health.

Susu B.: Right? No, that's a great point. I mean I'm grateful to be on a campus, honestly where I get to see the seasons, because I feel like a lot of people, when they think about the environment impacting their mental health, they always think about just the sunny days. Even when I was introducing this, I was like, oh my God, it's a sunny day. But I'm grateful to be able to see a season where there is the snow and there is when it's sunny and the fall and everything. And I'm really glad that you're framing this relationship between us and the environment because I think that's an important aspect. I think we even spoke about it in another episode with Indigenous Wellness because the way they view environmental wellbeing is really this relationship between yourself and the environment, not necessarily just the relationship between you and climate change. Although that is something that also is a big factor. So,I'm glad you framed it that way. I'm wondering, many students think of environmental issues as long term problems. even just as I was saying, a lot of people just think about it that like, oh, climate change, that's the one thing we'rethinking about. So, like saving the planet for future generations is kind of like how they might frame this long-term goal of the environment. But are there ways that our environment, whether it's our homes or even campus spaces, as you mentioned, is actually impacting our well-being right now? I think you already talked about even mental health.

Susu B.: Right? I'm really glad you're framing it. Almost like when I think about accessibility, the way you build something, it kind of starts there. Even building our homes or shaping it a certain way, even. I remember even, I was speaking with my manager because previously whenever we were doing, the podcast episodes, I used to print the questions. But then I was like, okay, maybe I could spare the trees and try to actually, now I use my laptop, just read off the questions in this document instead of printing it. So, it kind of could be the simple things that you can do that impacts it. And it impacts you as well. As you said, for example, when you take the transit, that's physical, well, being, you know, you're moving instead of sitting in the car. And it also impacts the environment one way or another, 100%.

Nicole: And that's a great example with transit. Right? you know, even choosing to be more active, right. plays, an important role. You know, this is a podcast. We're in health. So, health and the environment are interconnected. So thinking about those relationships, choosing to walk, choosing to cycle, where, people have, the ability to cycle, but even taking transit, you're more mobile, in terms of physically mobile than, when you're driving in a vehicle just thinking about, those things or, being more conscientious of how you're doing things, and also certainly has an impact on your mental health, right? And things that you're doing, being more active in nature, certainly has a great impact for your mental health, being able to take a walk, taking a walk at lunch. those are all, great opportunities to interact with nature. and I strongly feel when we're more in touch with nature and the environment, we tend to care more about the environment.

Susu B.: It's kind of like this relationship piece that you're talking about.

Nicole: Exactly, exactly. And thinking of those seven generations and not just short-term thinking.

Susu B.: Yeah, no, that makes absolute sense. I'm glad you're speaking about it that way. some students feel helpless. And that's the sad part, or the sad part of the story. this helplessness piece. when thinking about climate change, especially when their efforts seem so small compared to global emissions from corporations, what would you say to someone who feels discouraged about their ability to make a difference? Because now that you're framing it as a relationship, I feel, you know, it would be really sad to think about someone that you love that you're unable to help just because, oh, there's this bigger picture that could, or bigger person that could be impacting them. So what would you say to them?

Nicole: and I totally get that. I get that feeling of helplessness or you know that this is a big, big, big issue and how do we tackle it? Right. And as one individual, how do you make a difference? And I think that's really, really important, to overcome those feelings of being overwhelmed and thinking about the actions you can take. There are things that you can do in your personal life, in your work environment, your professional life. We all have choices that we can make, and I think this is the, the real ability for hope. And taking action can really help drive change. And small actions make you feel like you're making a difference and helps with mental health, helps with feeling like you're, you're actually contributing to advancing the agenda. And small differences could be such as things as getting involved in tree planting, getting involved in local communities. We've got number of groups on campus, we've got a lot of student clubs on campus, ways for students to get involved and taking action, and really even just speaking about sustainability and the environment will have such positive benefits on the individual who may feel overwhelmed. And today, we're seeing more and more people overwhelmed with climate anxiety. And I strongly feel that small actions, even if it's taking steps like bringing your reusable water, those basic things going back to the basic principles of sustainability, you can have an impact. You know, everybody's, small, imperfect actions Will add up, in time. And then the other thing is around using your voice. And I strongly, suggest take a look at Katherine Hayhoe. One of the things she says, the most important thing that you can do is talk about climate change, you know, and having these conversations and looking at whatever you're passionate about, where it comes to, environmentalism, whether it's biodiversity, whether it's land use, whether it's moving to a circular economy. Anybody can really feed their passions and take action and use their voices where they can, can make a real difference. and you know, simple things is like voting. voting can have an impact as well. You know, if everybody goes out and votes, that's one action that can, make a significant difference.

Susu B.: I'm really glad that you're making it more of a political issue as well, because people, I feel they don't understand. Some people, I believe, separate environment from politics, but it really is political. the way you vote, the way you do stuff like that really impacts in one way or another. so I'm really happy that you're mentioning that. And the statement you made about hope was also a beautiful thing because I think we're going to talk about how to replace these emotions because it shouldn't be only about the negative and anxiety, climate and anxiety only. It could also be positive emotions. so continuing on this topic, sometimes students who care deeply about environmental well-being are met with sarcasm or disinterest from their peers. if you could offer advice to both the student experiencing the concern and the one who might be dismissive of their emotions, what would you say to each of them?

Nicole: Yeah, so, I think to the student, who cares deeply, and feels dismissed, certainly, I've felt this. I've been that student in the past or that person that cares, so deeply where you feel like your emotions are dismissed or you don'tfeel listened, to. and I think it's really hard, being a person who can be so passionate about environmental issues. Yeah, I think sometimes it's really a sign of awareness and empathy. And I think people, who exhibit a lot of empathy, really sometimes have a hard time, you know, making themselves, ah, heard. you know, especially some of these issues are so complex. Right. So I think it's hard to sometimes stay, you know, encouraged. But certainly, I would encourage people to follow their path, you know, follow their passions and let their voice be heard and keep fighting the fight. you know and allowing themselves that opportunity. and then on the flip side also knowing that you're never going to change everybody's mind and you're just going to have to turn your back to some people who you don't necessarily feel that you're never going to change everybody's mind about environment, and our environmental issues.

Susu B.: Yeah, no, that makes sense. this idea of empathy and understanding, empathy really is a big part. I think a big factor in it is the fact that what we mentioned earlier, which is the idea of oh, it's a long term goal because it could also be on the flip side as well that someone could be thinking, oh, that's future me problem or like I won't be here to experience the problems of this. But no, as we mentioned there's a lot of things that currently are impacting you and currently are changing. and will, will, you know, it will be in your lifetime. And I just want to mention that I attended a conference, it's called the Mental Health Climate Change Alliance Conference. And according to research by Dr. Lindsay Galway, she mentions that a third of participants felt ignored or dismissed when speaking about climate change. So I just want to say, yes, it is true, it happens. it's not something that it just feels like it happens that, oh, by the way, I feel dismissed. No, it is research, it's grounded in research that, that people are dismissed when they talk about climate change. It's sad, but it's good to at least acknowledge that yes, it happens. because I feel like when we at least ground things in research, people understand that it's real, it's not a future you problem. It's currently happening and that's how it is.

Nicole: Well, and I think a lot of people don't understand how things are happening right now. They don't see the impacts. Right. And I think it's hard for some people and I think, without judgment, you know, understanding, and I think it's important to see the other side and see, you know, where people are coming from and meet them where they are, I think is really important. Right. Because I think sometimes, we don't allow that opportunity and sometimes we need to meet people where they are, and work with them. Right, yeah.

Susu B.: Is there something you would specifically say to the person who dismisses the. Like I know now that you were that student who was dismissed. I'm sorry for that by the way. is there something you would say to that person who I Don't want to portray as a bad person either because I think sometimes, most of the time, personally I believe that it's just someone who just does not care as much. but you know, personally I haven't seen someone who completely hates the environment. I would hope not. But is there something you would say to someone who just dismisses it or thinks it's not as important, compared to other dimensions, for example, of well being,

Nicole: I think it's also finding them where they are and finding something that they're really interested in and making those connections.

Susu B.: Right.

Nicole: So if they're really interested in say economics, you know, thinking about how can you reach them to where they are and what they're passionate about and kind of bring in that conversation, to perhaps have a dialogue where it comes to indifferences, but allow them to see. But again, I think it's also important to allow, people to voice their concerns or voice their opinions. Right? yeah. And it's okay to not agree, but have collaborative, conversations. I think the other big thing is belonging and allowing people to feel that they belong is really important. belonging in that conversation, and understanding why they may not feel, or why are they dismissing environment. You know, is it fear? Is it anxiety? Is it what is it that is, Is making them choose that, you know, is it, is it because, you know, they're, they have a difference of opinion or is it a deeper level of you know, thoughts?

Susu B.: Right.

Susu B.: No, I'm glad you're pointing that out because it could genuinely be just someone who's so scared that they're just avoiding thinking about it. Like, no, don't talk to me about climate change. Like it just, it could be out of fear. I'm glad, like this opens up this perspective instead of thinking that, oh, this person doesn't care about what I care about, which is, you know, this collective thing. But it could be something completely different and it could be that generally they are, you know, they have different opinions, but you can always connect with them. Because I could think, for example when you said maybe they care about the economy or stuff like that, I could think of this like the dimensions of well-being because we have the financial well-being dimension, for example. So maybe if they happen to care more about the financial well-being, we can explain to them how climate change or environmental sustainability could impact their own financial well-being.

Nicole: Yeah, the other thing I'm thinking about is a lot of people don't want to change their ways Right. And environmentalism is often about sometimes doing things differently. Right. So, people may not want to give up their combustion engine vehicle. so may dismiss electric cars or because they don't want to change their lifestyle. so often that's the other issue. and then you've got the extreme where we've got complete deniers of climate change. and you're not going to change everybody's opinion. And certainly, there's people who are deeply rooted in their ways of thinking. and I think sometimes you just have to agree to disagree. Right?

Susu B.: Yeah. since we were talking about this idea that maybe there's someone who is so scared that they just dismissed the climate change maybe. Can we talk a little bit about the empowering emotions? So, my next question is about how can we create spaces that encourage these positive and empowering emotions regarding environmental well-being rather than just fear, guilt and anxiety?

Nicole: Yeah, that's a great question. And I think we need to shift the conversation from doom and guilt actions to possibility in taking action. And I think that when we think about having hope and taking action, those are all positive things versus that negative. And I think really moving towards that positive, ways of encouraging open dialogue, encouraging and celebrating small wins and achievements I think is really important. making room for hope, creativity, collaboration, innovation, finding those ways to really empower people to make change and make a difference, and whether it's in their personal lives, within teaching and learning here at York, within research. I think it's really important to celebrate what we're doing here on campus.

Susu B.: Yeah, I'm glad you're mentioning research because also in the same conference Dr. Robert Seller reminds us that climate emotions, which is a term that talks about any emotions that you get about climate in general are not always negative. they could also include things that are positive like hope like you mentioned, or enthusiasm even. And I think enthusiasm was my personal favorite as an emotion for me is I feel like you can have this extra energy but not put it into an anxiety and instead just shift it a little bit. It's kind of like cbt, you know, like just shift it a little bit and put it into enthusiasm to actually try and have some change,

Nicole: when we frame environmental well-being not just as like a crisis but as a chance to reimagine the kind of world we want to live in. You know, one that's healthier, fairer, connected, I think you know as humans we're really,we're lacking that connection and belonging. So really thinking about what kind of world do we want to see And I think you know that can turn from anxiety to motivation. Ah really, you know, moving motivation in action and that'syou know, where real change will begin.

Susu B.: Absolutely. And since as we said and as we have been talking about in this episode throughout, it could always start with small actions and small spaces as well. what are some accessible ways students can start improving their own environmental well-being? from their daily commute as you mentioned, diet or ah, study environment.

Nicole: Yeah. So, I think you know, as you pointed, daily commute is a good one. I used to also be the manager of transportation. So, this one is near and dear to my heart. But you know, really thinking about how you get here. being physically active, when and where possible, you know, taking the walk, being able to not to say to walk to campus if you live obviously in that's not in great distance but taking the subway, carpooling, you know, finding ways to be more environmental that way. Diet choice, that's a great one. a lot of people don't put two and two together, but you know, well-being and what we eat are very well interconnected. So, thinking about the choices we make when it comes to food, you know trying to choose local food, obviously plant-based diets are far more sustainable and we feel healthier. So, trying to eat more whole foods, and thinking about you know at York we've been really trying to implement more sustainable sourcing within our food vendors are trying to source more locally. we're introducing more plant-based options within our you know within Yu Eats and some of our other locations on campus. and just being more mindful again of the choices we make when we're consuming you know thinking about water. water is a big one. We need to drink more water. Bring your reusable water bottle, on campus. the other one is coffee. thinking about the choices we make when we drink coffee. you know a lot of our vendors offer fair trade coffee. Bring your reusable mug and you can get fair trade coffee from one of our Yu Eats, dining location. in terms of study environments, we've got lots of great, amazing places on campus, on all of our campuses. Not only at the Keele campus but our Glendon campus. our Markham campus. certainly, we have outdoor environments, that the common, we've got amazing picnic tables there now where students are out studying outside in our natural environments. so there's lots of places where people can go and even take a quick break, go outside, get some fresh air. which is really important as part of our mental well-being is connecting with nature. I personally love going for walks, nature walks. I need to do it more often. I try to really incorporate it into into my life. But I feel more grounded when I go for nature walks. you know, listening to the trees and the birds and you just feel so much better and thinking of that impact when you're studying, when you're stressed for an exam, just get outside into nature. finding a spot, perhaps evenin the library, that you can overlook through a window. I remember when I was an undergrad at Glendon, I used to sit in the Frost Library overlooking the Rose Garden. so that's just another example of you know, your study environment can have a huge impact in what you're doing. So, try and find you know, spaces with natural light, outdoor m. Spaces where you can There's lots of ways of finding those spaces on campus, on our campuses. And there'slots of ways to get involved on campus. So, thinking about through our office, we do a lot of tree plantings for Earth Day or Earth Month. We also do some in the fall campus, cleanups. We do cleanups in designated areas on campus to pick up litter that sort of has gathered through the winter season. and we do other events through our office. Whether it's planting workshops, we've done everything from Jeopardy, sustainability, Jeopardy, Climate Cafes. so, there'slots of ways to get involved on campus and ways for you to be involved as a student, or as a community member. And then the other one I ah wanted to mention is other organizations throughout the campus. So, thinking about Maloka, Gardens, if you haven't been there, I'd strongly suggest take a look at the Maloka Gardens. Get involved. We've got lots of student’s clubs that you can get involved in. Like many Green hands, regenesis, net impact, there's so many clubs for students and getting your hands dirty in the soil has so many great benefits to you as an individual and your emotions. So. So it's so rewarding to see things, growing. so, I'd strongly recommend, getting involved in anything that you can on campus because it's really, it'll help you, emotionally, mentally as well.

Susu B.: I'm so happy I asked you this question because you had a lot to say. And honestly, I totally agree with every single point. for example, in terms of even like physical wellbeing because you kind of talked about this, mental health walk. I love to go to the gym, but it doesn't feel the same if I walked on the treadmill versus when I actually generally go outside, as you said. Listen, because I'm always that person who's just with headphones on. Like, you will just see me walking. Maybe a car will hate me at some point because of how much I'm just listening, blasting music. But sometimes just like headphones off. I just listen to the nature. As you said. Whatever it was, if it was raining, if it was sunny and there is, some birds, whatever it is. And it just feels different. It's one of those things that just happen to feel different, happens to feel good. I don't need, you know, to get the biology behind it. I'm sure there's people that do the research for that but just feels different. So, I'm really happy that you're mentioning that. And the amount of resources we have on campus is actually amazing. I remember ReGenesis, they stopped me once for their tabling. And I think if I'm not mistaken, they're also doing. They have like a thrift store, if I'm not mistaken. So that's another thing I, at some point I worked at the thrift store, ah, Value Village. There's a lot of thrift stores out there. Salvation army. That's just me naming the ones that I know.

Nicole: and yeah, thrifting is such a great way to reuse clothes. The textile industry, is. Has a lot of environmental impacts. so, thinking about, our choices when it comes to, buying clothing, thrifting is a great way to be sustainable. Donating your clothes when you're done with them. unfortunately, right now, fast fashion makes, clothes that's not durable and it changes by the season. unfortunately, a lot of people aren't conscientious when it comes to clothing with a lot of these brands. With thrifting, Regenesis has a great free, store where you can get, free. A lot of stuff is free. Yeah. So, this is a great opportunity to Engage, in that, and there's certainly, you know, in many communities, thrift stores and they're becoming more popular again, which is great. I'm happy to see that.

Susu B.: I would like to say that to me, thrifting is the new stylish. It's, it's really not about, as you said, like this fabric, fast fashion. As a matter of fact, one of my friends, I once told her like, if she would ever, not like thrifting just because it's, you know, reused items. And she told me the only reason why I wouldn't like thrifting is that if you get something, I can't ask you where did you get it from? To get something like, like to get another piece? Because she'slike, oh. Like, oh my God. It's such a, it's such a unique thing that you got this, this one item that you're not really sure how to do. You get it again. That's the like. And I think that's the only con to thrifting. Otherwise, it's, it's a beautiful activity that helps the environment. So, I, I highly recommend that people engage in it.

Nicole: It's a great, a great opportunity. Actually, the shirt I'm wearing is thrifted as well.

Susu B.: Oh my God. That's amazing. That's good to know.

Susu B.: Yeah. The pants I'm wearing are thrifted and they're amazing and they were actually amazing. So, I'm, I'm glad. It's, it's something to be proud of. if it's generally, if it's not because you care about the environment that much yet, it's generally something that you know is helpful so you might as well do it. It's as simple as me switching the printing to the laptop just because it's generally more convenient for me. I don't need to run to the office to print every time I have an episode. Right. So, when you think about it, as you said, there are changes to do, for environmental well-being. But when you think about it deeply, it generally is more convenient most of the time. I, love multitasking. When I'm commuting. I do. because as I said, I always have my headphones on. I do audiobooks, so my textbooks, I just get them in audio so that I finish my readings while I'm on the way. And I think that's just one of like the study, like the biggest study tips. I always Tell people if they ever ask me for study tips. Yeah. So, I'm really happy that we kind of reached this conclusion that environmental sustainability or environmental well-being is in fact convenient for you. It's just this initial change stage that you just got to get used to.

Nicole: Yeah, yeah. And I was just going to say, yeah, like environmental well-being, isn't just about big sacrifices. Right, right. It's about small, meaningful, shifts that we can align our lifestyle and values. and it really helps to also make you feel better as well.

Susu B.: Perfect. I'm writing that down because I really like it. That's like my quote of the day.

Nicole: And I think we all can make, individual actions and yeah, I think we can, we can all have an impact.

Susu B.: Perfect. And with that being said, Nicole, this concludes our episode today. I'm very sad. I was enjoying this conversation. I honestly wanted to keep talking to you and I feel like I learned a lot, about the environment, about climate, emotions even and how to approach them through you. So, thank you so very much for being my guest today.

Nicole: Awesome. Well, thank you for having me. it was a pleasure, ah, chatting with you. I learned a lot from you as well and I'd be happy to come back. And certainly, you know, we have a lot of resources on our website on Instagram, and feel free to reach out if you have any questions and happy to have follow up conversations with anyone.

Susu B.: Perfect.

Susu B.: Thank you very much.

Nicole: Awesome. Thank you.

Susu B.: I really want to thank our special guest today, Nicole Arsenault, the director of sustainability at York University.

Susu B.: I really enjoyed our enlightening conversation. Thank you Nicole for being such a valuable resource.

Susu B.: You can also find links to all the services Nicole mentioned in the show notes for this episode, along with more valuable information, tips and resources. Visit our website at, go.yorku.ca/wbpodcast. Click on the episode's link and look for the episode “Dear Earth: An Invitation to Hope”. This episode was co-produced by the well Being and you'd podcast team. Our podcast coordinator is Prabhleen Luthra Our technical editor is Jonathan Varela Gonzalez. And I'm your host, Susu B. And as usual, we'll leave you with the quote of the day. Environmental wellbeing is not just a crisis. It's a chance to imagine the kind of world we want to live in.

Thank you for listening.