Robbie and Roger recap Vistara 2026

In this episode, Robbie & Roger recap Vistara 2026 in Austin, Texas, a two-day agency-for-agencies conference put on by E2M Solutions. This one wasn’t built around a single technology stack — it was built around the business of running an agency in an AI-first world, complete with a live AI Lab, action-item-heavy keynotes, and a diverse room of owners comparing notes on what’s actually working. Featured takeaways from Jason Swank on building your own AI operating system, Brittany Mueller’s viral “go build your ugly project” challenge, Andy Crestodina on AI citation hunting as the new backlink hunting, and David C. Baker’s closing “get on the bus” keynote. Plus the vendor and media-partner view from Roger (sponsoring with Kinsta) and Robbie (media partner running a five-camera podcast studio on site).

Key Topics:

• Why an agency-for-agencies conference hits different than a tech-specific event
• E2M’s AI Lab: talk to a bot about your business and walk out with action items in five minutes
• Jason Swank on building your own AI-powered operating system for your agency
• Brittany Mueller’s call to action: “go build your ugly project” and stop waiting for perfect
• Andy Crestodina on AI citation hunting as the new backlink hunting
• Debunking the Reddit hype: for small B2B, it’s classic SEO — industry trade pubs and your own site
• David C. Baker’s closing keynote: the first trend he’s ever told agencies to jump on
• The sponsor view from Roger (Kinsta) and the media-partner view from Robbie
• Why this room felt different: a high percentage of female agency owners and open, generous conversations
• Practical framing for agency owners who feel behind on AI (spoiler: everyone does)
• What Khushboo and Vishal (E2M) are doing next with custom models and sentiment AI
• Why AI adoption isn’t optional, but you get to pick your pace

Timestamps:

00:00 - Cold open: attendee voices on what Vistara delivered

00:52 - Three conferences in two months, and why the bonus recap episodes

01:13 - Setting the scene: Vistara 2026 in Austin, mid-May

01:28 - Why an agency-based, business-focused event felt different

02:22 - Vistara is put on by E2M Solutions, a white-label agency

02:52 - Year two of Vistara, and the gap it fills for agency owners

03:24 - Brant and E2M’s AI-forward point of view

03:35 - AI for clients vs. AI for your own agency operations

04:03 - Inside E2M’s AI Lab on the show floor

05:06 - Jason Swank on creating your own AI operating system

06:51 - Brittany Mueller: “go build your ugly project” and the takeaway that spread on LinkedIn

07:40 - Chunking AI builds the way you’d hand a task to an intern

08:31 - Andy Crestodina on citation hunting as the new backlink hunting

09:47 - The Reddit myth, debunked for small B2B

10:26 - The unsexy truth: classic SEO, trade pubs, and your own website still win

11:13 - Andy’s prompt-creation project and long-form prompts

11:42 - Feeling behind on AI is universal, even inside the industry

12:28 - The agency owners who say “never AI” and where they land

13:18 - Going meta: Roger sponsoring with Kinsta, Robbie as media partner

13:38 - Shooting video at a tech/agency conference vs. a client event

14:24 - Julia and the Vistara team on organization and running on time

15:13 - The Kinsta booth design, sticker interactivity, and Monday kayaking

16:52 - Running the on-site five-camera podcast studio between meetings

17:17 - Dot and Co (E2M) on the show and podcaster-on-podcaster interviews

17:37 - Shout-outs to Khushboo and Vishal (E2M) and what’s coming next in AI

18:13 - Custom smaller models and sentiment AI for customer health

19:08 - David C. Baker’s closing keynote: “get on the bus”

19:50 - Copyright, AI backlash, and the honest response from the stage

21:03 - The bus metaphor: why this trend is different from digital transformation

21:51 - Would Kinsta sponsor Vistara again? Absolutely, yes

22:48 - The most diverse agency room they’ve been in, and why it mattered

23:53 - “Ask me about AI” t-shirts and what’s next for Vistara

24:14 - Where to find the next Vistara: joinvistara.com

Resources & Links:

• Vistara (https://joinvistara.com/)

• E2M Solutions (https://www.e2msolutions.com/)

• Kinsta (https://kinsta.com/)

• Andy Crestodina / Orbit Media (https://www.orbitmedia.com/)

• David C. Baker (https://www.davidcbaker.com/)

• AGENCY inTELL on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@AGENCYinTELL)

Oh my goodness.

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I've been so inspired.

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Especially since this morning.

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I mean, I'd are just like ping

ping ping ping ping.

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And that's what I came for.

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I came for ideas.

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I came to be inspired.

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I came to just soak it all in.

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And that's exactly what's happening.

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And I'm loving every minute of it.

It's amazing.

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It's a lot of knowledge

a lot of enlightenment

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with how AI tools

are shaping the future of the industry.

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So has been a great two days so far

and looking forward

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to the ending

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Hey, Roger.

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Hey, Robbie.

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Wow. We we did three conferences

in the last two months.

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It's crazy. Yeah, it's been, it's been.

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And then those were just.

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Yeah, those are just the ones that we

that we recorded, right?

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I mean, you've been to others.

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I think I've been to one other,

so that's crazy.

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But I really like these bonus episodes

that we're doing about the events.

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And we didn't we didn't

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we didn't talk about it at the star,

and that's just because we were so busy.

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But Vistara in Austin, Texas.

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Now, I forget the dates on it,

but it was in May, mid-May.

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Yeah, mid-May, I know. Where were we?

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We don't know. So it was different though.

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I thought for me it was a different type

conference and I really enjoyed it.

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Vistara was agency based,

so it was a little broader.

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It wasn't focused on one technology.

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But yeah.

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And and it was very business

focused. Right.

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Like the people that were there.

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Sure, there were some developers there,

but the vast majority of people,

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there were agency owners, marketers

in the agency space.

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And so it was a lot, a lot more high level

discussion, which I'm with you.

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In the last few years,

I've actually specifically been trying

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to go to more conferences like this where

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it's just different, right?

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You're not getting bogged down

into the specific technologies.

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You're talking more about business,

general things, operating your agency,

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finding clients, delivering for clients.

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And, you know, Vistara is put on by E2,

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which is a white label agency.

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They usually work behind the scenes

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with other agencies

and do the really technical stuff.

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And so it was really cool for to see them

bring together

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a really cool group of attendees,

speakers.

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And I mean, the sponsors were pretty good.

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I got to say at least that those kids to

guys, those kids had their stuff together.

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so I guess this is year two of a star.

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This is my first time here,

and I can't remember the last time.

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I've just been at a conference

by agencies for agencies.

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Right. Which is really cool.

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I was an agency for 17 years and

we really never had anything like this.

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It was always some kind of tech conference

or some kind of, you know, very niche

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specific thing, but not something

that was actually there to support agency.

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So this has been a welcome change of pace.

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I wish I had it 17 years ago.

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we actually we had Brant, who runs E2,

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EMS solutions on the show

on a previous episode.

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And and as if anyone listened

to that show, you know, they are all about

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AI forward.

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And so even though it wasn't one

particular technology, it we definitively

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there was a focus on how to implement

and use AI not only for your clients.

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Right.

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But they were also talking about

which I think was much more interesting

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to the agency owners

on how they can use it internally

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and how it can help them

get themselves up to speed internally

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by switching a lot of their AI, switching

a lot of their processes to using AI.

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And they didn't just tell you

this is what you needed to do at Vistara.

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That was the thing I thought was the best

was that they actually showcased it.

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We actually saw them doing it on stage

and then also their

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their AI lab that they put together,

which was really cool.

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And I don't know if you had much time

to go into that AI lab, but it was

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it was pretty impressive,

especially for agency owners.

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And I heard some of them

talking about it afterwards

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because they could go in and literally

talk to that AI bot,

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tell them about their business,

and it would in five minutes

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give them some action items.

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And so it was

it was a actually working AI lab,

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which that's really cool because again,

we go to a lot of these conferences

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and everybody's like, you got to use AI,

you got to use AI.

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But that's where they stop, right?

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It's like,

yes, go do it. Just go start doing it.

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Well, okay.

But that's sometimes overwhelming,

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especially for agency owners.

They're busy.

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They're really busy.

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They know they can't

miss this opportunity, but they're busy.

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And so seeing actual practical application

not just go do this,

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but literally let me show you

what we're doing with this.

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It was that was impressive.

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I felt like and I felt like the attendees,

that's what they were talking about even

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now on LinkedIn.

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I actually just saw somebody yesterday

post about that AI lab and they were like,

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so impressive.

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And they were telling other agency owners

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and then they were going in there

to go do it, you know?

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And so yeah, pretty cool.

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I thought, The

the speakers were all really great.

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I didn't get to catch a lot of them,

but it sounds like you did.

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Tell me about your

who was your top three speakers?

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Okay. Top three speakers. Definitely.

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Brittany Brittany Mueller was going to be

she's going to be one of mine.

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And I'm going to take I'm

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going to take Brant and set him aside

because he was he's like MC speaker right.

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And Brent's always he's

just good on the stage.

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So Brant Brant was excellent.

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Yeah he is, but I'm not going to use him

as one of my three spots.

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He'll be somewhere above that. Right okay.

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But now

so the others Brittany Mueller loved it.

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I thought that Jason Swank,

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his talk was really, really well done.

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And he had a little bit

of technical difficulties there.

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That wasn't his fault,

but there were a little bit

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of technical difficulties with the,

the mic or the

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I mean, the PowerPoint,

I think, but otherwise though, sure,

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it was valuable information

that it wasn't AI.

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That's true.

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That's true

because I would not have had that.

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Of course, we were physically in the room

too, so that that helps right now.

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Now, I don't know, in ten years from now,

I don't know.

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We won't know if it's their clone

or if it's them.

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I don't know, but, Yeah. No. So Jason.

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Jason really talked about that

at a high level with the, the like,

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kind of creating your own

operating system with AI.

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And so I really that was a

it was a really cool concept.

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He also gave away he had a link

so you could go he's giving away the tool

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that he's kind of put together.

And we talked about.

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So you can go

and use what he's put together.

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Brittany Mueller

I thought that her examples

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were really relevant.

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Relevant to the room, relevant to our time

we're in in AI.

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So the examples she gave of things

that you should start trying to do,

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you should start building

now. And I loved it.

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She had probably the best takeaway

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call out when she said, go

build your ugly project.

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Now she's like,

just build it. It's going to be ugly.

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It's the first one, right?

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But that takeaway

I've seen resonate on LinkedIn to

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for people who are at Vistara, I see them

saying, oh, what was your ugly project

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you did after the week after,

and she had lots of good metrics.

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I felt like to show to,

to show kind of where we are in this

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AI world and, and the adoption rates

and things like that.

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I thought that, that her numbers

that she had were really good.

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I have had several people come up to me

after the talk

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saying that they want to build a thing

that does this and this and this and this.

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That's great.

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You can get there.

You have to chunk it out.

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You have to have an engineering mindset,

which we as marketers don't really have.

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We're not taught.

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We're not we don't flex that thinking

that's not how we operate,

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but taking a task and really

breaking it down into individual steps, as

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if you were going to hand it to an intern

in another room via a sheet of paper.

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That's the level of kind of logic

that you have to break it down,

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and then you can actually work with AI

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to figure out what that build

might look like and get some momentum,

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get some excitement and wins that sort of

get things going.

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What?

I heard of Andy, Christine, Christina.

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I didn't get to stay for his entire one.

Krista. Dina.

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That's it. I didn't get to say for his.

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Yeah, yeah, but I think you did. Right.

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You got to hear his.

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That's the one you heard

and I didn't. Yeah.

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So that was one.

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You know,

I caught a webinar with him a few months

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ago, also sponsored by ETA. And

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he's very

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tactical, especially with the whole go,

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which is still SEO just we're using AI now

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and he does really good deep dives

just super quickly.

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And so one of the really big takeaways

I got from him

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is when you're analyzing

your client's websites

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and what AI is saying about them,

you can dig into how the AI is producing

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those results and and find

where the citations are coming from.

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And you can do this with your competitors

websites.

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And so now this is the new form of

backlink hunting, right.

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Like you used to look at a competitor's

site, analyze their backlinks,

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go get those backlinks for your client

and you're at least showing up on

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the same page now.

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So now the new thing with AI is

finding out where the citations are that

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AI is now using for generating results

for your competitors sites.

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And the big takeaway in all of that is,

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you know, in the news right

now, and a lot of people are talking about

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the most important place you need to have

mentions is Reddit, right?

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We're all being told that, hey, you need

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your client

needs to be talked about in Reddit

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because that's where the

AI is getting the results.

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Well, Andy did a quick demo

showing that Reddit doesn't show up at all

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for when you start getting very specific

for industry and business

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stuff, and instead it's much more.

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It's classic SEO. Robbie.

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Oh my god, it's 2012

all over again, right?

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Industry trade publications.

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Your company's website.

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Oh my gosh, blow my brain.

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We still need to have websites

and put good content out there.

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And and so

that was a really great takeaway for me.

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This whole the whole Reddit hype train.

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Look, if you're Coca-Cola, if you are,

you know, a major fortune 500 brand, yes,

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you probably need to at least be watching

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what people are saying about you on Reddit

because it's probably not good.

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But but for these, for small businesses,

no no no no, don't don't waste your time

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on Reddit.

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It's a cesspool.

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You're going to get caught up

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and then you're

going to go onto the popular page

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and you're going to spend all day

just scrolling.

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So anyway,

I really enjoyed Andy's presentation.

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He and then he was showing

like the actual stuff.

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It was too fast for you to kind of like

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write down what it was,

but he was showing you his prompts.

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And, you know,

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I'm going to eat up a little more air here

and just mention the other takeaway

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is that he has a project

for creating prompts.

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And so use AI to help

you create your prompts.

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And then he's got like these five page

prompts that he's created.

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So anyway, I think the big thing

I'm talking about here is

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I don't know what I'm

doing at all with AI.

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And when I go to these conferences,

it really shows me

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like I'm just scratching the surface

with these tools.

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So yeah, I know,

and I feel like you're right.

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Even we feel like we're behind with AI

when we go to these

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and we see some of this stuff

people are doing.

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But then when we go outside of industry

and you're talking

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to your friends and family,

that's when you go, well, okay, maybe

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I do know a little bit more about it

than I thought,

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because then they're just kind of

like what they are like.

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They're like, Claude, what? What?

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Yeah.

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So, we can't beat ourselves up,

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but there's so much it's somewhat no one's

going to know everything about it ever.

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But all we can do is try and keep up.

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And as agency owners out there,

they really have to keep on top of this

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just because it's coming

whether you want it or not.

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And it's going to be requested of you

whether you want it to be or not.

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Right now, there will there be

some agencies that hang out there going,

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like we're never going to use

an AI tool, probably,

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and they will have some sort of clientele

base.

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That's the I don't want you to ever use

AI on my thing.

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So there's still going to be those people,

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I believe,

but they're going to be much more niche.

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And they're it's just going to be

a different world for them.

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At a certain point,

especially five years from now.

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Can you imagine?

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Look at where we are now.

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Where are we going to be in five years?

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So I mean, it's kind of like trying to say

you're not going to wear polyester.

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Good luck.

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Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. It's in every good luck. Right.

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And I mean these tools,

whether we call it AI

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or whatever, like these tools are in

everything that we're using now.

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So I think there's almost a sense

of delusion to say you're not using AI.

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But, you know, I get it.

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Now, let's talk

a little meta for a second.

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We've gone along with this,

but I want to get meta for a second,

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because there was a whole nother component

to the Vistara event for us.

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I was a sponsor with Kinston.

We had a booth.

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You mentioned that

we also you were a vendor.

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You were shooting video.

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You and your partner Michael

were just running around like crushing it.

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You guys have the coolest

gizmo camera tools for sure.

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And then

Vistara set us up with a whole media room.

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We had a five camera podcast studio going,

yeah,

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so let's spend a little bit of time

talking about what it was like

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working at Vistara, and I'll let you go.

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First, talk to me about what it was like

shooting video at a conference like this.

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You know, we we normally shoot video

at other types of conferences.

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Not I'm usually speaking

or or attending tech conferences.

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I think that's probably

the first tech conference we've videoed.

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We normally do other types of conferences

for our clients. Yeah.

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So it was different.

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It was it kind of felt weird in a way,

because I was just like, wow.

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I'm usually like like I said, speaking or

have a sponsor booth myself or whatever.

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And so it was just different.

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It was like a mixing of my two worlds,

which was kind of strange for my brain,

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I think.

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But what I will say about it from a vendor

standpoint, they were so well organized.

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It was crazy.

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Like, again, like I do a lot of different

types of conferences, right?

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They were well organized. Julia.

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Oh my gosh, she's amazing. Amazing.

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Yeah, it was very well structured.

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It was they they stayed on time.

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I mean there were a little bit of delays

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on some things, but they adjusted

and got themselves always back on time.

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So it was really great.

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And I and again we were wondering

all around, right, doing video work.

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So we were hearing overhearing

lots of conversations

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and they had really good feedback

from the attendees.

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So I thought that that was excellent.

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What about you as a sponsor?

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Did can still feel like this was

a really good place to be as a sponsor.

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Yeah.

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You know, so agencies are a ICP for us.

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We're going to get a little jargon,

their ideal customer profile,

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meaning

that we like to sell to agencies for sure.

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And so a conference full of agencies

is is a great place for us to be.

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I also really appreciated

how organized this event was.

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Julia, hats off to you.

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Wrangling cats for multiple days

is is is a lot of work.

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And then I thought it was really cool.

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They put the sponsor area

in kind of a four year.

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That was very dramatic, right?

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I felt like I kept saying

I felt like I was on a set of like Star

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Trek, like a cantina or something.

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And I mean, it was really cool in there.

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And then my event manager, Sarah was,

did an amazing job.

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She came up with a whole new booth

design for us that was very interactive,

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and we had people be able

to put stickers on it based on where

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they were feeling on, you know,

how much hosting they were doing, how much

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scaling their company they were doing,

and it just created conversations.

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And so that was a lot of fun.

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So, you know, huge success.

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We had great conversations.

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And the kayaking on Monday before

the whole event started was a ton of fun.

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And we had sunscreen as our swag.

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I've actually got one right here.

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And so I was able to hand out

sunscreen to everybody on the kayaks

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and have hats for them.

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And so it was just a lot of fun.

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I really enjoyed this event.

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And and yeah,

I look forward to doing some more.

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And I thought that having the podcast room

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was very interesting

because we were both working. Yes.

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And yet we still carved out time to do

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things like

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seven, seven, at least five, 5 to 7.

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I can't even remember.

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I've lost track.

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And with that being said,

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so one of the people that we had

on our podcast that will be coming up

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was from Dot and Co,

which is also another E to M company.

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And, and so and she also has a podcast.

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So it was great.

So like we had a podcaster on our podcast.

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So that was really interesting.

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She was very good. Enjoyed that a lot.

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We who

we haven't who we didn't get on there

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and I wanted to mention also with the

speakers was Khushboo who works with E2.

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Right.

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So again someone from E2 m

that was speaking but very good.

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And also Vishal,

that was from A to M both of their

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talks were again full of action items.

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I felt like real data

really showing things and so I like that

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and we will have Khushboo

come on our on on the agency

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Intel at some point

because that woman knows her stuff.

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I mean she really does.

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And when I say she knows her stuff, she's,

she's in that next level of AI

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where they're dealing

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with creating their own smaller models,

but then also experimenting

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with all of the sentiment pieces of AI,

which is really fascinating,

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you know, I mean, like with tribe V2

that came out just recently from meta

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and things like that, that sentiment

AI is going to get really big.

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And for people who are listening

are going like, what the heck

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are you even talking about?

This is where it is.

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AI models that can go

and look at transcripts of your customers,

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let's say,

or help tickets and read the language

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that they're using to get

what is their sentiment?

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Is this about to churn or what, you know,

are they very happy with us?

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And then, you know, like E to

M has developed this whole dashboard

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where you can,

like Brant, can get up in the morning

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and look at his dashboard and go like,

oh, we've got three customers.

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I probably should give

some personal attention to, you know?

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And that's great.

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I mean, they're using AI in

what we're going to all be doing, probably

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in, you know, in the next few years, but

they've really got a head start on that.

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So I think that's pretty amazing.

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And then we also had Brittany,

we had some of the speakers,

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some of the other speakers,

Brittany Mueller, we had her on the show.

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Great.

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And David C Baker

who we didn't mention yet of the speakers,

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and he was our the closing.

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What I really I just loved his though

because he was like get on the bus.

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And he said for years he has always said,

you know, there's all these trends.

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And he'd be like, don't get on that bus

because, you know, just don't get on.

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It's a trend, don't get on it.

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And he said,

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this is the first time

I am going to tell you,

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get on the bus because I have no idea

where it it's going.

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But I just know you need to be on it.

383

And I was like, wow,

that was that was pretty cool.

384

So that was a good sentiment

to end the whole conference with, to like,

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look, we don't know where it's going,

but we know you need to be on it for sure.

386

And, you know,

I thought it was interesting.

387

There was in the Q&A section of his talk,

there were some people asking about,

388

you know, some of the concerns about AI,

like it's, you know, the copyright

389

violations are ridiculous.

390

And so how are creative

people supposed to adjust to this?

391

And, you know,

I thought David was measured

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in his response of like, hey,

you know, that that is an issue.

393

It's something that we need to pay

attention to.

394

And but in the meantime, that doesn't mean

395

we should be disregarding

this entire technology.

396

And we are seeing a backlash right

now, especially in the US.

397

Right.

People are getting kind of anti-air.

398

There's all these boos

happening at college graduations.

399

And, you know, I get it.

400

I understand it's scary.

401

Things are changing.

402

There's a lot of hype coming from these

403

AI company leaders,

which I've noticed lately.

404

They've been dialing it back a little bit

because they're trying to IPO,

405

so they're trying to raise

trillions of dollars.

406

And so but I think, you know, a

great point somebody made was, look,

407

you don't have to like this technology,

but you're going to need to learn

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how to work with it because it's here.

409

It's not going anywhere.

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people just don't know how to get started.

411

It's sort of like writing a book.

412

It's like you don't plan it all out.

413

First

414

you just sit down and you start,

415

and then you figure out

what's going to happen next.

416

And I like, we've had these

417

we've had these really weird movements

in the past where red flags went up

418

like crazy in my head around

digital transformation, for instance.

419

It's like everybody

got on the digital transformation bus,

420

everybody got on the branding bus,

and everybody got on the storytelling bus.

421

And I kept saying to people,

it's like you're getting on the bus

422

and you don't even know where it's going,

right?

423

Stop it now.

424

This is the AI bus.

425

I think this is different.

426

I think you need to get on the AI bus

even though we don't know where

427

it's going.

428

Roger, for as a sponsor,

do you feel it was a benefit?

429

Would you guys was sponsored again?

430

Absolutely. 100%.

431

I would sponsor again,

not only because my bosses were happy

432

about how the sponsorship worked out,

433

but also it was

it was just a really good time.

434

I mean, I like working in this space

for a reason.

435

The people are fascinating.

436

I love talking about websites.

437

I go crazy in my local town

438

because I can't talk about this stuff

to anybody.

439

And Vistara was one of those things.

440

It was just like everybody

there was my best friend, right?

441

Like, oh my gosh, talk to me

about how you're using technology.

442

What are the cool new things

that you figured out?

443

And everybody would always have something

interesting and new for me to hear.

444

So yeah, I thought Vistara was great.

445

How about you?

446

Fantastic.

447

I mean, we were a media partner

448

and that was great to to work with them

because they were just so well organized.

449

But also as an agency owner,

it was a really nice to be in a space

450

with other agency owners.

451

And they had quite, quite a diverse

group of agency owners, probably the most

452

female agency owners I've ever seen at one

event, like so high percentage.

453

And so that was really nice

454

because it gives you

so many more perspectives, I feel like.

455

And the conversations were very open

and transparent to I didn't feel like

456

people were trying to like,

oh, you're going to steal my clients.

457

No one seemed to be thinking that at all.

458

Everyone was just like, we're all in this

crazy time, and what are you doing?

459

And what should I be doing?

460

I mean, it was very open.

461

And people,

462

some people were very opinionated,

obviously,

463

because they've

already been doing some things.

464

But it was good.

465

It was good to hear what they had done.

466

And, and some people who had tried things

and it didn't work out.

467

That's nice because it's like,

468

okay, maybe that is not something I was

thinking was thinking about doing it.

469

Maybe that's not something

I should be thinking about right now.

470

So I thought it was really well done.

471

Not to mention the t

shirts asked me about AI on the front.

472

Gray t shirts?

473

Absolutely. No, it was a great one.

474

Yes, indeed.

475

And Vistara said they're going to start

doing more of these conferences,

476

so people should go and to their website.

477

Is it?

478

Do you remember is it just Vistara or

479

join join join the Starcom.

480

That's it. Join Vistara. Thank you.

481

So yes.

482

So people should go

and watch out for the next one.

483

Because if you're an agency owner

there's some really good information

484

you'll get there.

485

love it like we are with our people here.

486

These are all the agency owners.

487

Everyone gets each other.

488

You know, you're chatting, grabbing coffee

or just around a table,

489

and it's just like,

these are our people, All right.

490

Till the next conference.

491

Adios.