Artwork for podcast So Curious!
Hookup Culture in Today's World
Episode 412th July 2022 • So Curious! • The Franklin Institute
00:00:00 00:29:16

Share Episode

Shownotes

In this episode, Kirsten and Bey talk to the VP of Communication for Grindr, Patrick Lenihan. Patrick shares how Grindr became a popular hub for gay people to meet, chat, and hook up. Later in the episode, Dr. Jayatri Das is back with her findings on hook-up culture in today's world.

Links for this episode:

Transcripts

Speaker:

Hello and welcome to So Curious, presented by the Franklin Institute.

Speaker:

We are your hosts.

Speaker:

I am an incredible rapper named The Bul Bey!

Speaker:

And I am a mind-blowing stand-up comic!

Speaker:

I'm Kirsten Michelle Cills.

Speaker:

On this season of So Curious!, we are

Speaker:

talking all about the science behind love, sex, and relationships.

Speaker:

Everything from your brain on love, to why

Speaker:

we obsess over our favorite television characters, to how science and tech are

Speaker:

changing our relationships with each other.

Speaker:

For this episode, we are going to be talking with the VP of Grindr, Patrick

Speaker:

Lenihan, and we're going to be discussing the popular gay dating app.

Speaker:

And later, we are joined by the chief

Speaker:

bioscientist of the Franklin Institute, Dr.

Speaker:

Jayatri Das, to get some insight into the role science

Speaker:

plays in the behaviors and social norms around hookup culture.

Speaker:

Bey, I'm going to be honest with you.

Speaker:

I am so stoked to talk to our first guest.

Speaker:

Something that I know about Grindr is that it's less of an algorithm and it's more

Speaker:

proximity-based, which is, like, pretty ahead of its time.

Speaker:

So with Tinder, there's more of this

Speaker:

complicated algorithm, but Grindr is all about proximity.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So Grindr presents you with options based on who is closest to you physically.

Speaker:

Literally, down to the 100-foot measurement.

Speaker:

And the cool thing about Grindr is it was so revolutionary, because it was the first

Speaker:

platform to really build community for gay people in your area.

Speaker:

Have you ever been to New York's Pride? I haven't.

Speaker:

As a gay myself [laughs], Pride rocks!

Speaker:

You can't walk more than 100 feet without running into Grindr merch.

Speaker:

It is everywhere. They are, like, the kings of this.

Speaker:

And they really found a way to bring together communities, especially in areas

Speaker:

where it might not be as okay to be outwardly gay, maybe in different parts of

Speaker:

the country, different parts of the world, to still be able to find each other.

Speaker:

Yeah. Which is very cool.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Not every town in rural America is going to have a gay bar.

Speaker:

Right. Or just interests, right?

Speaker:

Interests that kind of intersect in these

Speaker:

particular communities and pockets of places.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

How are you supposed to meet your fellow gay people if there's no drag brunch?

Speaker:

Yeah, right.

Speaker:

That's where I've met all my closest friends.

Speaker:

Mimosas...!

Speaker:

Well, this is a great time to introduce

Speaker:

our first guest, who knows more about Grindr than most people.

Speaker:

Patrick Lenahan is vice president and head of communications at Grindr, the world's

Speaker:

largest social networking app for gay, bi, trans and queer people.

Speaker:

As Grindr's chief spokesperson, Patrick

Speaker:

represents the company to media investors and the broader LGBTQ+ community.

Speaker:

Thank you so much for being here, Patrick.

Speaker:

Welcome to the So Curious! Podcast.

Speaker:

Can you tell us more about your history, the history of Grindr, how revolutionary

Speaker:

it has been for the gay community and beyond?

Speaker:

I came out as a gay man 20 years ago.

Speaker:

When I came out -- and I think that a lot of people have this experience -- even

Speaker:

though I lived in northern suburban New Jersey, which is relatively cosmopolitan,

Speaker:

and you can sort of like, see Manhattan from certain points in town, you still

Speaker:

have this impression that you're the only gay person in the world.

Speaker:

And that has been, I think, a prevailing

Speaker:

experience for a lot of queer people throughout history: not knowing whether or

Speaker:

not there are people like them, and not being able to find one another.

Speaker:

That sense of isolation is incredibly heavy and tough to carry.

Speaker:

And that's what queer community has been,

Speaker:

is people coming together around these commonalities.

Speaker:

Grindr was invented in 2009, relatively soon after the launch of the iPhone.

Speaker:

This was, like, an early, first-generation app when apps were the sexiest new thing.

Speaker:

"There's an app for that."

Speaker:

Right! Those sorts of commercials! And it was invented by this guy, Joel Simkhai in

Speaker:

Los Angeles, who was like, "I want to find my people, I want to find gay people.

Speaker:

And it's got to be easier than looking around and guessing." And so

Speaker:

he developed this really, really simple technology, and it's just

Speaker:

people who create profiles, and seeing those people in proximity.

Speaker:

If you download Grindr today,

Speaker:

it's not really dissimilar from what you would have seen in 2009.

Speaker:

You see, upon creating an account, the

Speaker:

first 100 people who are closest to you, who are also on the app.

Speaker:

And you see the information about those

Speaker:

people that they choose to share with you, a profile photo, their gender, their age,

Speaker:

what they're into and interests, whether or not they want to share photos, whether

Speaker:

or not they want to meet up, things like that.

Speaker:

And you can see whether they're online,

Speaker:

and you can chat with anybody who's sort of in your area.

Speaker:

And then there's a variety of feature sets

Speaker:

that are sort of behind some paywalls and that expand your reach and your ability to

Speaker:

talk to other people to 600, or unlimited....

Speaker:

We have roughly 12 million monthly active users, which is a lot of people, and

Speaker:

they're all queer, and they're all looking to connect with one another.

Speaker:

And so our mission, which -- this is now a

Speaker:

13-year-old company, and so it's been through different leaders and groups of

Speaker:

people running it -- but I think the mission has stayed more or less the same.

Speaker:

And the way we describe it is, it's our

Speaker:

mission to connect queer LGBTQ+ people with one another and with the world.

Speaker:

And you mentioned proximity just a second ago.

Speaker:

Why is that so important to building community?

Speaker:

The Internet has opened up the world to everybody, and we can create community

Speaker:

online, but speak really quickly to proximal communing, and just connecting.

Speaker:

I think a lot of social media aims to BE

Speaker:

your social relationships, to completely intermediate them.

Speaker:

And that is not what Grindr does.

Speaker:

Grindr is there to accelerate your social relationships with people offline.

Speaker:

And so the point is to actually meet people and to get to know people.

Speaker:

And yeah, you can chat on the app for as

Speaker:

long as you want, and if that's where you're most comfortable and feel like

Speaker:

connecting there is what's right for you, then that's great.

Speaker:

But the idea is that people who are close

Speaker:

to one another will want to meet up in person, and we are encouraging of that.

Speaker:

Obviously, you have to be safe and we have

Speaker:

this very detailed, robust safety guide that we share with all of our users.

Speaker:

But we think people meeting people is really important.

Speaker:

It's sort of like the foundation of it's,

Speaker:

somewhere in the middle of Maslow's hierarchy.

Speaker:

So we think it's pretty important.

Speaker:

Well, first of all, I just want to say I

Speaker:

love what you just said a few minutes ago about growing up in a smaller town, and

Speaker:

then just really feeling like you're the only queer person there.

Speaker:

I'm from the suburbs outside of Philly,

Speaker:

and it's so interesting how Philly is such a....

Speaker:

I mean, famously gay! You know, we have

Speaker:

the Gayborhood, and that's where I ended up going to college.

Speaker:

But prior to that, I remember feeling the exact same way.

Speaker:

It's like, "oh, I'm the sole gay person in

Speaker:

the world." And then I moved into a place called, on Google Maps!, called the

Speaker:

Gayborhood, with rainbow signs on every street sign and, you know...just amazing.

Speaker:

So. I love that thought.

Speaker:

I've never put that into words before, but can you tell me, in your personal

Speaker:

experience, did you use Grindr prior to working for Grindr?

Speaker:

Oh, yes, funny story!

Speaker:

We love those.

Speaker:

I was living in the Middle East in Doha,

Speaker:

Qatar, and a friend of mine came back from the US.

Speaker:

And was like, "you would not believe what they have now!" I was like, "What?!?

Speaker:

Like, there's an app just to find other gay people, what?!?"

Speaker:

And you couldn't download it there, and there are reasons why you couldn't

Speaker:

download it there that you could fill a whole other podcast about...

Speaker:

But, so, I didn't really download it until

Speaker:

after I left. I was in Doha for two years, and then I moved to San Francisco.

Speaker:

And then I got to San Francisco -- I land there -- I spent years in the Middle East.

Speaker:

I'm not acculturated to

Speaker:

[laughs] Northern California, and didn't have any gay friends there.

Speaker:

And so the first thing I did was download Grindr.

Speaker:

And even though I lived like a mile from the Castro, that was still one of the ways

Speaker:

where I started to make gay and queer friends right off the jump.

Speaker:

And I was like, "oh my God, there's so many of us here!"

Speaker:

Grindr does not feel like Match.com, Tinder, Bumble.

Speaker:

It's not designed the same way it came

Speaker:

before these apps, and it's designed very differently.

Speaker:

So those apps all, it's like a swipe model, right?

Speaker:

You're like shown a card and you see some information, you see a picture, you see

Speaker:

some pictures, it's left or right and you make a decision.

Speaker:

And maybe you match, maybe you don't.

Speaker:

There's basically a control valve these companies have of how many people they're

Speaker:

showing you, and it's algorithmically determined.

Speaker:

And it's probably a little bit like gambling, right?

Speaker:

Like, they're going to give you a match

Speaker:

one in every 125 swipes to keep you interested and engaged.

Speaker:

We don't do that.

Speaker:

That's not the point.

Speaker:

We hope people make connection.

Speaker:

And at the core of the queer LGBTQ

Speaker:

experience is sex in one way, shape, or form, right?

Speaker:

Sexual expression, sexual exploration, identity.

Speaker:

So at the core of any gay app is going to be sex.

Speaker:

But it's much more than that, I think.

Speaker:

And the app's structure of the application speaks to that.

Speaker:

My own personal experience with Grindr has

Speaker:

been way better when it's about just making friends and chatting with people in

Speaker:

new places than getting into the whole hookup-y thing.

Speaker:

That's fine and good and great, but personally, I have been, in my life, less

Speaker:

frustrated when I'm just on there looking for friends and people.

Speaker:

Did the community create Grindr or did

Speaker:

Grindr help cultivate the community, how people interact and talk to one another?

Speaker:

I will say definitely Grindr did not create the community.

Speaker:

Absolutely not. Yeah.

Speaker:

And specifically, "hookup culture."

Speaker:

Did the app create that culture, or was the culture already there?

Speaker:

Definitely not, I think.

Speaker:

Okay, great.

Speaker:

The great thing about being gay is there's actually this incredibly long and well

Speaker:

documented history, particularly since the 1960s.

Speaker:

Or even since the 1950s. A ctually, for the last 2000 years!

Speaker:

There's some pretty fascinating history

Speaker:

documented of LGBTQ people, whether or not they were called that.

Speaker:

And more recently, you've got books like

Speaker:

"The Answer from the Dance," and "Faggots," and "Giovanni's Room." And

Speaker:

these are all books that were written in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and they describe a

Speaker:

culture that anybody who's in the queer community today would read and go, "oh,

Speaker:

yeah, that sounds like Saturday night at 3-Dollar Bill!"

Speaker:

I think hookup culture existed

Speaker:

for sure, although most of my adult sexual life has been since Grindr was out.

Speaker:

But at the same time, Grindr is not so much a product of the community.

Speaker:

Grindr is like so many pieces of

Speaker:

technology, kind of like a mirror or a cipher for human behavior.

Speaker:

At its core, it's a very simple and basic piece of technology.

Speaker:

It's literally just accounts on a proximity grid.

Speaker:

That is like, really basic stuff.

Speaker:

And all of our competitors have copied that [laughs].

Speaker:

So it's really how you use it.

Speaker:

And I think it's really with all pieces of

Speaker:

technology, like Jia Tolentino's, "Trick Mirror," where she talks about, we look at

Speaker:

this thing and we see human behavior on this unbelievably massive scale that we

Speaker:

probably were never supposed to see it at, right?

Speaker:

And I think a lot of what we see in this

Speaker:

giant, giant "Trick Mirror" is stuff that we don't particularly like sometimes.

Speaker:

And sometimes it's stuff that we do really like.

Speaker:

We have I think a tendency to focus on stuff that we don't.

Speaker:

In any event, I think that it's definitely a product of gay culture in many ways.

Speaker:

I mean, I don't know, we could go deep on this for a long time.

Speaker:

To just straight answer your question,

Speaker:

Grindr is more the product of the community than anything else.

Speaker:

Yeah. And I feel like one of the beauty of

Speaker:

Grindr specifically is that it's creating, it's taking something with

Speaker:

so much history -- like you said, that had to, at many points in history, be

Speaker:

underground -- and making it visible and then as a result, safer in so many ways

Speaker:

and making it more transparent, which is incredible.

Speaker:

And so I'm curious because, for example, during New York Pride or

Speaker:

Philly Pride, there is so much Grindr merch everywhere, right?

Speaker:

Which is amazing.

Speaker:

What would you say is Grindr's presence offline?

Speaker:

What is your mission in supporting local queer spaces?

Speaker:

This is something about which I personally care a great deal, and the company is

Speaker:

really committed to. We've talked about how we see ourselves as facilitating and

Speaker:

accelerating social relationships, not replacing them.

Speaker:

And there is a whole and the sort of hyper-local nature of our business is

Speaker:

showing people things like, right there, that they can go and walk to and meet.

Speaker:

And we want that to carry over into how we

Speaker:

support queer businesses, bars, nightlife and experiences.

Speaker:

That, over the last two years has been

Speaker:

something that's been pretty hard to do, with COVID.

Speaker:

And we've sort of fought that fight as everyone else has.

Speaker:

We've done a lot to partner with a group called Save Our Spaces, which is focused

Speaker:

specifically on helping keep LGBTQ bars and nightlife venues open and thriving.

Speaker:

And we've, I think, done 30 different bar

Speaker:

activations, all COVID-protocol compliant, just to keep

Speaker:

driving traffic to those bars where we traditionally have showed up.

Speaker:

And we want to make sure those bars continue to be successful.

Speaker:

There is no Grindr without gay spaces.

Speaker:

There's really not, right?

Speaker:

I think that there's a lot of...

Speaker:

One thread of things that I hear, and I've been at the company three months, so I've

Speaker:

heard everybody has called me to criticize the company, and to praise the company,

Speaker:

and I've sort of heard everything from every side.

Speaker:

And one criticism is, oh, well, Grindr's killing gay bars.

Speaker:

I was like, I don't actually know if

Speaker:

that's true because, yes, you can now go on Grindr and meet people.

Speaker:

And before you could only really go to gay

Speaker:

bars, at the same time, it's become much more socially acceptable to be gay.

Speaker:

So I think gay people are showing up sort

Speaker:

of everywhere, and everywhere is a little bit of a gay bar now.

Speaker:

And you can take it or leave it, but I'm a big believer in having space that is

Speaker:

specifically for queer people and puts queer people first.

Speaker:

And I think we are looking for, now that we're moving into sort of this next phase

Speaker:

of COVID where things are -- we know how to handle things -- I think we're going to

Speaker:

be doing more stuff offline that we're really excited about.

Speaker:

Just for people who may be listening and

Speaker:

aren't super familiar with the logistics of Grindr, can you just tell us how you

Speaker:

specifically provide that info to other users?

Speaker:

Totally. So when you sign up, we walk you

Speaker:

through it, you sort of have to click all the boxes and say all the things.

Speaker:

And we encourage you to take a look at our privacy policy.

Speaker:

And we will regularly push into the

Speaker:

Inbox -- which is just where all your messages show up -- we'll push messages

Speaker:

letting you know about things going on in your community.

Speaker:

We'll let you know about, if there's safety things going on, or there have

Speaker:

definitely been times when there's been an STI outbreak in a particular area, and

Speaker:

we've been able to push a notification to encourage testing, things like that.

Speaker:

So that like really basic. It's really basic.

Speaker:

It's just literally sending messages to people, based on where they are, with the

Speaker:

information that we think that they're going to need.

Speaker:

And this becomes particularly helpful in countries -- because we're not just

Speaker:

operational in the US, we're operational in nearly every country in the world, and

Speaker:

that includes countries where it is illegal to be gay.

Speaker:

And we don't operate in those countries

Speaker:

because we think we're going to get subscription revenue or anything.

Speaker:

We operate in those countries because the third-party LGBTQ+

Speaker:

activists who are operational there have asked us to stay operational in those

Speaker:

countries, because we create opportunity for people there to connect with one

Speaker:

another that they really wouldn't have otherwise.

Speaker:

There's a greater burden of security in those places.

Speaker:

So in places like Egypt, we push daily

Speaker:

safety messages to our users, letting them know about what's going on.

Speaker:

And we do that in a number of different

Speaker:

places where it is much more risky to be gay.

Speaker:

And again, that information typically is coming from -- it's not our information,

Speaker:

it's information from these nonprofits and third parties.

Speaker:

We're just acting as connective tissue again, and making sure our users stay

Speaker:

safe. W e don't monetize or make any money

Speaker:

off it, this is purely like, this is just the right thing to do, to stay in these

Speaker:

countries and to help people connect with one another, even if there are risks.

Speaker:

Which is amazing.

Speaker:

And I'm really happy that you're here to share that.

Speaker:

So people know that Grindr extends beyond connections.

Speaker:

It's also information, it's also safety,

Speaker:

it's all these different things rolled into one.

Speaker:

So, Patrick Lenahan, thank you so much for taking the time to come on here and talk

Speaker:

to us about not just the app and not just the culture, but the overall community.

Speaker:

And just learning these different

Speaker:

dynamics, it certainly was enlightening for me.

Speaker:

Yeah. Thank you so much.

Speaker:

We really appreciate your time. Thank you guys for having me on.

Speaker:

I really appreciate it.

Speaker:

[show music]

Speaker:

So what surprised you most about this conversation around Grindr?

Speaker:

Oh, my God. I thought I knew everything about Grindr.

Speaker:

My biggest takeaway from that is how

Speaker:

Grindr works in other parts of the world and areas where it might not at all be

Speaker:

okay -- it's sometimes illegal -- to be gay, and so then they have the whole not

Speaker:

just their usual community and all that, but then they also have the ability with

Speaker:

those extra features in places like that where they have notifications to keep

Speaker:

yourself physically safe, keep your health safe.

Speaker:

That is dope. No, it's really important.

Speaker:

Like, if there's an STI outbreak in a certain pocket of a place, you can

Speaker:

know about that, and have information about your health, that is always good.

For me, what stood out was:

:

it's not all about sex.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Some of this was just about building

For me, what stood out was:

:

community and meeting people with similar interests.

For me, what stood out was:

:

You might be in a space where... Obviously we live in a cis-hetero-dominated

For me, what stood out was:

:

narrative space in most of our communities.

For me, what stood out was:

:

So being able to navigate and meet new people is always fun and always great.

For me, what stood out was:

:

We're social animals.

For me, what stood out was:

:

We need to always build and grow, no matter what our orientations are.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Yeah. Not everyone gets the luxury of living in

For me, what stood out was:

:

the Gayborhood in Philadelphia, like I did all through college.

For me, what stood out was:

:

I'm sure that was fun. Oh, buddy...!

For me, what stood out was:

:

[laughter]

For me, what stood out was:

:

On the topic of hookups, first of all, we can see how insane the

For me, what stood out was:

:

changes in science and medicine -- the positive changes -- have been, from as far

For me, what stood out was:

:

as hundreds of years ago to 50 years ago to even five years ago.

For me, what stood out was:

:

And it really changes the risks and the perception of hookup culture, right?

For me, what stood out was:

:

Because now we have a lot more of an ability to do it safely.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Absolutely. I haven't hooked up a bunch, and I'm in a

For me, what stood out was:

:

relationship right now, so I don't hook up at all.

For me, what stood out was:

:

But what I really appreciate is just how that's really being held as a "normal

For me, what stood out was:

:

human behavior," the nee,d or desire, the urge, to want to connect with someone and

For me, what stood out was:

:

be intimate or have a moment, a brief moment, but do it safely and do it in a

For me, what stood out was:

:

way where we're not dehumanizing anyone or jeopardizing anyone's health.

For me, what stood out was:

:

So I appreciate that.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Really entering the space of science and

For me, what stood out was:

:

behavior and medicine and so on and so forth.

For me, what stood out was:

:

As with all questions that come up, we got a consult with our girl, the chief

For me, what stood out was:

:

bioscientist at the Franklin Institute, Dr.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Jayatri Das. Hey, Bey.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Hey, Kirsten. How are you?

For me, what stood out was:

:

Good. How are you?

For me, what stood out was:

:

Good. So we're talking hookup culture, right?

For me, what stood out was:

:

Uhhh...Yeah.Hell, yeah.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Aren't we always?

For me, what stood out was:

:

Well, I think what fascinates me as an

For me, what stood out was:

:

entry point into this topic is just how common it is.

For me, what stood out was:

:

I was looking at some data, and some of the most recent data actually suggests

For me, what stood out was:

:

that looking at college students, 60% to 80% of college students have had some type

For me, what stood out was:

:

of hookup experience, and it's common among younger teens as well.

For me, what stood out was:

:

But this is clearly, like,

For me, what stood out was:

:

a very common experience that's kind of embedded in our culture these days.

For me, what stood out was:

:

60% to 80% is a large number. That's a big number.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Yeah.

For me, what stood out was:

:

So, Jayatri, tell us a little bit about

For me, what stood out was:

:

your research in the topic of hookup culture.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Well, one of the things that I was interested in, from a biological point of

For me, what stood out was:

:

view is, where is this culture coming from?

For me, what stood out was:

:

Because maybe it's always existed, but

For me, what stood out was:

:

we're also seeing some changes in physiological trends about how our bodies

For me, what stood out was:

:

work that intersect, again with some social trends that I think people are

For me, what stood out was:

:

looking at, as a reason for why there's this prevalence of hookup culture.

For me, what stood out was:

:

And so if you look at the United States,

For me, what stood out was:

:

the age at which people get married and reproduce is getting later and later, and

For me, what stood out was:

:

that's definitely tied to a lot of social factors.

For me, what stood out was:

:

And at the same time, the age at which

For me, what stood out was:

:

kids are reaching puberty is getting younger.

For me, what stood out was:

:

And so there's this longer time span in which young adults are ready for

For me, what stood out was:

:

reproduction and physiological interactions in that sense,

For me, what stood out was:

:

but they're not psychologically or socially ready to settle down yet.

For me, what stood out was:

:

And so that increased time frame, I think, is part of the reason that scientists and

For me, what stood out was:

:

social scientists think, that has given rise to the prevalence of hookup culture.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Interesting. So if I'm understanding you correctly,

For me, what stood out was:

:

there's a much larger gap now between when you're physically able to, and might have

For me, what stood out was:

:

the physical urges to have sex versus when socially and logistically and all of that,

For me, what stood out was:

:

you can actually be building relationships.

For me, what stood out was:

:

And so that gap is sort of leading to things like hookups.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Yeah, that's right.

For me, what stood out was:

:

So if you look at some of the causes of why we think kids are entering puberty

For me, what stood out was:

:

earlier, you look at just the fact that we're healthier across the board.

For me, what stood out was:

:

So there's lower rates of disease.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Nutrition is changing.

For me, what stood out was:

:

People have more stability in terms of their health, their food, their shelter.

For me, what stood out was:

:

There's also some theories that there's potential environmental exposure to

For me, what stood out was:

:

chemicals that might disrupt our hormone function.

For me, what stood out was:

:

There's a lot of questions.

For me, what stood out was:

:

We don't really know why.

For me, what stood out was:

:

But you can see trends in that the average

For me, what stood out was:

:

age of puberty has decreased by almost a year, which is pretty significant when

For me, what stood out was:

:

you're thinking about the lifespan of kids.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Yeah. What was the prior average age?

For me, what stood out was:

:

What did it downgrade to?

For me, what stood out was:

:

So you're seeing shifts from age 11-12 down to nine or ten.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Hundreds of years ago, we were looking at puberty at age 15-16.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Wow. Right.

For me, what stood out was:

:

When people were really facing a lot of

For me, what stood out was:

:

hardships in just sort of getting to that age beyond childhood disease.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Yes.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Which is interesting, because I feel like in older days, at least, the way it's

For me, what stood out was:

:

portrayed in movies, yeah, you did go through puberty later, but then that was

For me, what stood out was:

:

immediately the age you, like, got married!

For me, what stood out was:

:

Exactly. Right.

For me, what stood out was:

:

There was no gap. You didn't have time to hook up.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Yeah. Right.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Aww, no time. Yeah.

For me, what stood out was:

:

I'm starting to notice that there seems to be like, some legitimacy around just

For me, what stood out was:

:

sexual pleasures and developing a language around that.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Maybe hookups are part of that. I don't know.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Okay, so we're going to switch gears to part two of "Body of Knowledge."

For me, what stood out was:

:

We went to the Internet to find out what people are asking about hooking up.

For me, what stood out was:

:

We typed in, "how do hookups," and we let the Google algorithm do the rest.

For me, what stood out was:

:

I'm so curious to see what comes up.

For me, what stood out was:

:

We saw some of the most commonly asked questions about hookups were, "how do

For me, what stood out was:

:

hookups work?" I would love to know as well.

For me, what stood out was:

:

If I ever find out, I will let them know.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Yeah, I mean, should I try to answer that?

For me, what stood out was:

:

Yeah, go ahead.

For me, what stood out was:

:

How do hookups work?

For me, what stood out was:

:

Well, it's normally after 07:00 p.m. Maybe?

For me, what stood out was:

:

I don't know.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Okay, so the next question that we put into the Google search, right, is "how do

For me, what stood out was:

:

hookups," and the autocomplete" "how do hookups start?"

For me, what stood out was:

:

How do hookups start?

For me, what stood out was:

:

I mean, you know, a little, "wink, wink, nudge, nudge."

For me, what stood out was:

:

Yeah. Wearing your hottest outfit, feeling good.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Yeah.

For me, what stood out was:

:

I would imagine it's different for everyone.

For me, what stood out was:

:

There are different entry points. I guess.

For me, what stood out was:

:

[Laughter] That may have been a terrible framing [laughter], but...

For me, what stood out was:

:

There are platforms and apps and numbers and groups and communities.

For me, what stood out was:

:

There's just different ways, I guess, to do it in 2022.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Some of the work I was reading really focused on the fact that both the

For me, what stood out was:

:

motivations to hook up as well as the reactions afterward that people experience

For me, what stood out was:

:

are really complicated, and we don't understand them very well.

For me, what stood out was:

:

So, for example, in one study, they looked

For me, what stood out was:

:

at people who are experiencing, maybe feelings of loneliness or depressive

For me, what stood out was:

:

symptoms, who might look at a hook-up as a way to feel better.

For me, what stood out was:

:

And in those people, they did see a

For me, what stood out was:

:

decrease in those feelings after hooking up.

For me, what stood out was:

:

So there's like a positive impact there.

For me, what stood out was:

:

But in the same study, if you looked at

For me, what stood out was:

:

people who had fewer of those depressive symptoms starting out, then often these

For me, what stood out was:

:

casual engagements end up feeling more depressed afterwards.

For me, what stood out was:

:

So it's hard to figure out and just really

For me, what stood out was:

:

pinpoint why people are doing this for any specific reason.

For me, what stood out was:

:

I think it really differs and there's a

For me, what stood out was:

:

whole spectrum of reactions and feelings that people feel afterwards.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Next, we continued typing in, "how do

For me, what stood out was:

:

hookups," and the next question was, "end."

For me, what stood out was:

:

How do hookups end, Bey?

For me, what stood out was:

:

Hopefully pleasantly, with everyone being okay with what took place.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Hopefully, amicably?

For me, what stood out was:

:

Yeah.

For me, what stood out was:

:

And...quietly?

For me, what stood out was:

:

[laughter]Great. Okay, Jayatri, what do you think?

For me, what stood out was:

:

How do hookups end?

For me, what stood out was:

:

There's a whole spectrum, right?

For me, what stood out was:

:

There's a little bit of data in terms of

For me, what stood out was:

:

what makes people more likely to feel regret.

For me, what stood out was:

:

And some of what I read was that one-night stands, or hooking up with somebody that

For me, what stood out was:

:

you've known for less than 24 hours, are two factors that are more likely to

For me, what stood out was:

:

predict whether you'll feel regret afterwards.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Damn, that tracks though.

For me, what stood out was:

:

I mean, it seems like common sense there.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Yeah, right.

For me, what stood out was:

:

I wasn't really surprised to read that.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Jayatri, as always, thank you so much.

For me, what stood out was:

:

And thank you so much to Patrick for being on this episode of So Curious!

For me, what stood out was:

:

Next week we are going to talk about what is going on under the surface when we fall

For me, what stood out was:

:

in love -- literally, like biologically, what is going on?

For me, what stood out was:

:

This and more on next week's episode.

For me, what stood out was:

:

And don't forget to subscribe to this podcast. Wherever you listen to podcasts

For me, what stood out was:

:

and music and content, just subscribe right now.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Do it. So Curious!

For me, what stood out was:

:

is presented by the Franklin Institute.

For me, what stood out was:

:

And special thanks to the Franklin

For me, what stood out was:

:

Institute producers, J oy Montefusco and Dr.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Jayatri Das.

For me, what stood out was:

:

This podcast is produced by Radio Kismet.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Radio Kismet is Philadelphia's premiere podcast production studio.

For me, what stood out was:

:

The managing producer is Emily Charish.

For me, what stood out was:

:

The producer is Liliana Green.

For me, what stood out was:

:

The lead audio engineer and editor is Christian Cedarlund.

For me, what stood out was:

:

Head of operations is Christopher Plant.

For me, what stood out was:

:

And the editors are Lauren DeLuca and Justin Berger.

For me, what stood out was:

:

The science writer is Kira Vallette.

For me, what stood out was:

:

And the graphic designer is Emma Sager.

For me, what stood out was:

:

And I am The Bul Bey, signing off for today.

For me, what stood out was:

:

And I am Kirsten Michelle Cills, also signing off for today.

Chapters

Video

More from YouTube