The central theme of this Movie Wars episode is the groundbreaking 1982 film Tron, a movie that didn’t just dabble with computer-generated imagery—it invented the playbook for CGI in cinema. Kyle, Seth, and returning guest Evan Burke (fresh off crushing Kill Tony in front of 15,000 people at Bridgestone Arena) break down how Tron went from Disney’s underdog experiment (that even its own animators tried to derail) to a cult classic that shaped the future of sci-fi filmmaking.

We dive into the wild behind-the-scenes stories: from 75,000 hand-colored frames and animators literally coding animations by spreadsheet, to Wendy Carlos’ genre-defining electronic score (two years removed from The Shining). We also unpack the film’s legacy, its infamous Oscar snub for “cheating” with CGI, and how its philosophy of “users vs. programs” still feels eerily relevant in today’s tech-driven world.

Along the way we debate whether Jeff Bridges’ Flynn is underrated or overrated compared to his Lebowski and True Grit roles, reveal Easter eggs like the hidden Mickey and Pac-Man cameo, and ask the big question: does Tron hold up in 2025 with its remastered 4K release?

If you’ve ever stepped into an arcade, geeked out over CGI, or wondered how we got from Pong to PlayStation 5, this is the Tron deep dive for you.

Takeaways:

• Tron’s revolutionary CGI: how Disney execs resisted it, why animators hated it, and why the Oscars called it “cheating.”
• Behind the scenes madness: 75,000+ frames hand-colored, six layers of film for every Grid shot, and multiple VFX houses hacking it together in 1982.
• Legacy & influence: how Tron predicted the language of firewalls, inspired cult fandom, and paved the road for The Matrix and modern CGI blockbusters.
• Jeff Bridges debate: is Flynn one of his most underrated roles or just “fun bad acting”?
• Easter eggs galore: hidden Mickeys, Pac-Man cameos, and Wendy Carlos’ groundbreaking soundtrack.
• Special guest highlight: Evan Burke joins us right after performing live on Kill Tony at Bridgestone Arena.

Links referenced in this episode:

• YouTube (Evan’s Kill Tony set)
• Evan's comedy Special "Twice Removed"
• Kill Tony Podcast (episode 725)
• Reddit threads discussing Tron’s cult status

Companies mentioned:

• Disney (distributors and reluctant backers)
• Bridgestone Arena (where Evan crushed Kill Tony the night before recording)
• Kill Tony (comedy crossover mentioned in the episode)

Movie Wars. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast. I'm Kyle.

I'm Seth. And we have our guest today, Mr. Evan Burke. Say hello. Welcome back.

Hello.

I think at this point we'll call him a friend of the show.

I'd say so.

We never showed. This is my fourth episode.

It is still. And I still think we need to come up with an award for him because he recorded three episodes of one day.

He did.

We've done the most in one day with this man.

And we couldn't talk about it at the time because it was secret, but he literally crawled in here from fudgeing, slaying Kill Tony the night before at Bridgestone arena here in Nashville, Tennessee.

What a crazy day.

I was very tired. I got no sleep. I was. I was. I got into bed, I was like, what happened? And I was like, oh, yeah, tomorrow morning, early to go talk.

Luckily, it was things I could talk about if. If I had to talk about Tron, then.

Yeah.

Because even having just watched Tron, I'm still like, what happened? What was I watching? You know? But, yeah, it is good to be here. And. Yeah.

Yeah.

And that episode of Kill Tony's now come out of episode 725.

Oh, there we go.

Yeah, tell them how to find it.

Yeah, go find it.

Yeah, YouTube.

Yeah, yeah, on YouTube. It's like an hour 45 into the episode, probably, if you get. Get there. And you'll probably see me.

Yeah.

And you got to witness it happen. Right.

And then we walked out before the kid just ruined the mood.

Yeah.

And then I guess something. Yeah, we. We didn't realize what happened.

We did not see the tits that got flashed at William Montgomery, so.

Oh, really?

That was a thing?

Yeah.

Yeah. I'm not gonna lie. I definitely left the arena and went to the lobby after I was done.

Yeah.

With Seth.

Yeah, that was. I told him. I was like, nope, we're getting out of here. As I saw the kid was getting up, I was like, yeah, we're getting out of here.

We had no context for what. What happened. And that's probably a good thing, right?

Because the way you're describing it, it sounds like, like you lose your job and you go on a bender and you wake up like, you go on a bender on Friday and you wake up on Sunday night.

Yeah.

And you're like, what happened?

What happened? Yeah, like 11 year old.

It's almost like you feel like you're on a game show. Right. And you're like, you have an opportunity to take two briefcases and you pick one, right? And there's like a thousand dollars.

And you're, you're like, yes, I won. And they rush you out and they're like, let's get him out of here.

And then you see the other person and who has got the other briefcase and you're like, oh, what'd you get? And they're like, $10 million.

Yeah.

So you thought you won.

Yeah, there was a r. You're like.

I did win something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

At least we didn't witness Drew Nickens and the firing squad of just getting completely destroyed.

Be honest. And let's be honest. If you watched the Kill Tony Netflix at msg.

Yeah.

Was not very good.

No.

And so that was hard to watch.

Yeah.

You know the kid who. 11 year old who got a golden ticket after me, didn't even get his segment aired.

Reddit says the broadcast, they let him go at msg.

Oh, yeah, that was the deal is when he went up at Nashville, they were like, you can come to msg.

Reddit says he got booed.

Yeah.

Which is why they cut it. Well, because he had the episode itself.

Saying the N word.

Oh, did he?

Yeah.

Clearly his dad wrote it.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, no, apparently it was that bad.

We.

And then just the episode just didn't feel right. It was cut. Weird.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So all in all, listen, looking back on it, I think it'll age well because it's a short five minute little clip of me, you know, getting a laugh, not getting made fun of. Kill Tony. And you know, it was, it was a wild experience. And I got to perform in front of 15, 000 people at Bridgestone Arena.

And here's the big difference for you. You were a working comic before Kill Tony. You didn't need Kill Tony and you're a working comic today. Yeah, you just did some string.

You just did a string in New York. Yeah, you. I mean, it's just one more thing on the resume for this man.

So, yeah, it's just, it's just a fun experience. Experience. Right.

Comedy is all about like, I see it as like a video game and it's like little, you know, this is a new level and this is a check, you know, checkpoint type stuff. And so it just felt like a nice pressure test, so to speak.

Well, speaking of aged well.

Oh, you beat me to it. I was gonna say speaking of checkpoint.

You guys both said this is your first time watching this movie.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

I don't know how I avoided it so long. I'm a huge Jeff Bridges fan.

Yeah.

I'm not a big Disney fan.

Fair.

So that's maybe why I. I didn't see any, like, heads exploding in the. In the trailer.

Arnold wasn't in it.

Yeah. There were no arms getting sliced off and no aliens eating people. There was no Vine. Yeah.

So I was like, all right, yeah, maybe I'll stash that away for later.

But yeah. This is legitimately one of the most legendary sci fi films ever. It was completely groundbreaking in so many ways when it came out.

And unfortunately when it came out, it wasn't huge. Like, it did well from what I remember. But it wasn't like this crazy huge, like, Star wars level.

Right.

Hype. But it did garner a pretty significant underground following.

Yeah.

That its resurgence finally came.

So if it faced resistance at every corner.

Every corner.

I mean, Disney had not really established any cred in the live action space.

Yeah.

They still were heavily animation. And this is random, but this is a good time to put it in here. And I mean, the animators are. Disney at Disney tried to derail the film.

They were super opposed to it because they didn't want computerized. At the time. CGI was kind of a boogeyman. Kind of like how we're looking at AI today.

Yeah.

Legitimately.

It's literally. Except AI's kind of got its own things. But yeah, they were super resistant. And they did not. They gave.

Yeah.

And what's funny about how future forward this movie was is for two reasons. First, video games weren't even. That looked. Didn't look the way they depicted it. They would eventually, though.

Exactly.

They were depicting like PlayStation 2 level video games in this movie. And also a lot of the language is kind of lost on people because they were using computer language and that actually would become the vernacular.

But at the time, like 98% of households did not have a home computer.

Yeah.

And so but they were using words like firewall and all these words and people are like a firewall. Yeah, but. And it was, it was so future facing in so many ways. How did you experience it?

I mean, yeah, I was watching it for the first time and I also avoided it mainly because my family, like, they're not sci fi people.

Right.

So, you know, this movie came out before I was born. My family definitely was never going to introduce it to me because they probably hadn't seen it.

But watching this movie back now, I loved it. It reminded me kind of, of like Star wars meets the Matrix.

Yeah.

Kind of like it definitely felt at times like visually what I was seeing, they were definitely trying to piggyback off of the success of Star Wars. Like the ship that they go in kind of had a similar vibe to the ship in Star Wars. The tunnels that they're flying through had a similar vibe.

The corridors that they're running through, this.

Yeah.

The stormtrooper type thing, it just, it kind of felt like that. But I loved the idea of, oh, we're transported into this digital world.

And this is what that would look like, you know.

And so then you start to think, oh, you know, not to go down that little rabbit hole, but hey, yeah, there are a lot of new words, new technologies that are being introduced. What better way to do that than through again? Major motion picture.

Yeah, yeah.

Kind of start getting these words out in circulation, these ideas out in circulation. But man, the way that the colors hit. Oh yeah, the, the way that they. It, it.

Even, even now as I was watching it, I was very much awe inspired by the colors, the visual.

And especially towards the end of the movie, it almost felt like they were learning more and more and more and more and more about what they could do from a visual per visual effects perspective.

Oh yeah.

Kind of as the movie went on. So that by the end it felt like they'd kind of unleashed all of their weapons.

I mean, that whole sequence at the end with the MCP is in my opinion one of the most masterful action climaxes. Not even just of the 80s, but just of kind of that.

An old, outdated program that has been pulling other programs to make itself stronger. Like, it's just the visuals and how everything is represented is just so cool.

Yeah. It kind of felt like a concept movie that Disney would have been okay. Shelving.

Yeah.

Had it just, like, not looked good.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

And maybe there's a lot of people at Disney that like, well, I don't get this at all. But yeah, it just kind of felt like they were like, yeah, this is a.

This could.

It felt like someone was like, assigned, like, hey, try and create like a, you know, something similar to that Star wars world using video games. And it was. I just thought it was perfectly executed.

$12 million.

Yeah, because.

Yeah, because. Yeah. I mean, for $12 million. And it just. It really is a cult classic.

Yeah.

It only made 33, though, which is. Which is probably not as much as I would have expected.

Yeah.

And it also. One thing I want to say is, is I don't know if you two thought of this, but it falls so strangely into the. The evolution of sci fi film.

We have alien in 79. Two years later, Terminator would come out.

Yeah.

And Tron was 82.

Yeah.

And you're seeing such an interesting.

Because sci fi, you know, Star Trek was kind of almost the most mainstream way people were getting Star wars or Star Trek were kind of ways that people were in getting sci fi. But a lot of sci fi was relegated to non theatrical release B movies. Black and white, cheesy Alien movies.

Not Alien, but you know, just extraterrestrial movies.

Yeah.

The Blob, like, things like that.

Yeah.

Like Frightened Bloody Outer Space is not your friend.

Yeah.

And then this comes out in 82. And it really. And I have my own feelings about this movie, but just as a. As a film person, it's kind of crazy.

That stretch between 79 and 84 where you literally, in five years see SCI fi advance and change graphically. Tron changes the way CGI is done.

I mean, it basically created cgi. I didn't realize this, but up until, like, recently, I think a lot of people considered.

I forget what movie it was, but there was a movie in 85 that was considered to have the first CG character.

But it's like this movie really started that trend of CGI to the point that like you were saying, their animators were against it, but the Oscars completely excluded it from the Best Visual Effects category because they considered computer generation to be cheating.

Yeah.

So it should. It would have and should have won the Oscar that year, but they wouldn't let it because it was cheating.

Even though literally half of the sequences that they animated, they literally were animating via code. Because I was just watching the Corridor Crew video about it, and you need six numbers when you're animating the way they were.

To figure out where your object is in space. You need an X axis, Y axis, Z axis, and then you need three different numbers for its rotation.

And so the way they would animate was they would literally type out all six of those numbers on almost in an Excel spreadsheet and send that off to the computer company to. And they. I think they used, like, six different companies to animate the different sequences because everyone had their own system of doing things.

That's intense.

Yeah.

So literally animating by spreadsheet, like, how fucking crazy is that?

That's wild. And they say they cheated, you know, but that's. That's like. That's a lot of effort.

So much.

Yeah.

Maybe you got stuck in a video game. Maybe you lost your son. Actually, that's the next movie. We're not going to talk about the next movie yet.

You need to share Movie wars because you need to fight against the computer and. Yeah, you need six lines of code. I'm just thinking. I'm at a loss here. But anyway, share. Share Movie wars with your computer loving friends. Love y'.

All.

Boom.

Rando Randos. Tell me about this. I want you to do this. Tell me about this hidden Mickey Mouse.

Oh, yeah. So there is a gigantic wide shot when they're on the transporter going towards the mcp.

And yeah, you look at the ground and there is a gigantic hidden Mickey. I think I texted you the picture of it.

But Disney has been obsessed with doing these hidden Mickeys all throughout, I think, literally since they started doing their cartoons. And so see if I can find.

They understand the power of subliminal messaging.

Exactly.

And the mouse. The mouse has the most subliminal messages that are out there. There. I have to Google it. But it is. It's just. It's hilarious to me that.

That it took so long for most people to realize this.

There's a hidden Mickey Mouse.

Yes.

I didn't see it.

I actually didn't either, and I kind of forgot to look for it.

But I probably did see it and didn't Realize it.

I'll make sure I send it to. Yeah. So in that sequence.

Oh, yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

It's so good.

That's wild.

And it just.

It.

It kind of blends seamlessly. Unless, like you said, you're looking for it.

Yes.

So, yeah, that's one of the things that they did with their. Their newfound animation powers.

There was another hidden little Easter egg in there too. Pac man is visible on Sark's control screen in one of the battle maps.

Yes.

Yes, he is.

So, yeah, it's an inside joke. Nodding back to the AR Arcade world that Tron sprung up from is what they said. This is also. And I loved being able to pull this name out.

Wendy Carlos. Does that name sound familiar?

I feel like it does.

She worked with Kubrick on the Shining soundtrack.

Oh, okay.

And she was the one.

There's a whole special feature on the anniversary edition of the Shin where she's showing all these crazy random instruments that I've never heard of to make the sounds for the Shining. Like, I'm like, what is it? Like this one giant thing. It's got three keys, but it looks like a giant fax machine. And she's just hitting the button.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Some weird. She's wild, man.

I think Han Zimmer brought one of those on his tour.

Yeah, yeah.

And she did this. So she. And this was the first score. So this movie just innovated everywhere. It was the first film to fully scale a symphony with an electronic.

With electronic sound. So. And that was Wendy Carlos, two years removed from the Shining.

Unbelievable.

So she's. I mean, she's wild, man.

I mean, crushing it, girl.

Yeah.

And everything about this movie, man, like, it's just crazy.

Yeah.

How much it innovated. And last. And you probably can speak to this better, but you were talking about how it was, how the CGI was done. So the glowing circuits.

Anytime you saw, like colors that were kind of like neon or whatever. Apparently there were 75,000 frames that were hand colored.

And they had 7,500 probably.

I don't know. Mine says an estimated 75,000 frames.

Okay.

I can look maybe seven either way. Even if it is 7,500. Wowzers.

Lots and lots individually, like he said, individual frames. On top of that, they got even deeper. Because that I don't think applied to the costumes that people were wearing.

Because the way that they had to do costumes was they shot all of it on high contrast, black and white. And that way they could invert the footage so that the lines that were Supposed to be light would be brighter than everything else.

And then they could shine whatever color light they needed behind that and create its own layer just for the lines. So they would have the regular costume, then they would have the lines behind that.

Then they would have to cut out individually everybody's faces, mouths, and eyes in three different layers so that they would stay the correct color and then drop the background in behind that.

So anytime you're in the grid and see people, you basically have six separate layers of film that people had to painstakingly go through and with an exacto knife, cut out things individually and paste it back in. Like, it is just absolutely crazy how much work went in to make this film.

I could see why they were resistant to making this movie. I'm just trying to imagine being like an executive and like, you've done Snow White, some of the most successful IP in history, and some jackass.

It's a friend. He's like, here's what we're going to do.

Yeah.

We're going to color 75,000 frames by hand. We're going to outsource 200 people in Taiwan to paint these frames. We're going to split up now.

We're going to do everything you just explained, like, an hour later. I'm just like, yeah, dude, we made. We made Snow White. We made Bambi. Like, what are you talking about?

Like, research and development for Disney.

Yeah.

And yet I feel like if Walt Disney had been alive, it probably would have gotten bigger backing from the company itself. Oh, yeah.

He probably would have loved the idea of, oh, yeah, take a concept that I'm familiar with.

Yeah.

And let's add a new. He's like, yeah, from a visual perspective, this has to work. And it totally did.

And he was very well known for innovating new styles of animation anyways. He was one of the first people to integrate separated layers in his animated films. So the background, they could change focus if you. They wanted to.

Were any other movies made like this?

I don't think so. Not to this level.

I mean, even Terminator had claymation in it still.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That was mostly claymation.

Yeah.

And it's like, even the way Star wars did the lightsabers was. The lightsabers were just wrapped in reflective paint. Like, they weren't going through this, like, contrast and. And.

And remove things and have things with light shining through it. Like, they went way simpler with how it was done.

Yeah. Wow.

So that's kind of why this looks so different than anything else that was coming out in that Time period.

It's kind of crazy because the director, Steven Lisberger, like, he didn't do a lot of other movies. And for him from. Him to go from Pong to this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is such a wildly.

So much about the future of video games.

Definitely some mushrooms involved.

Oh, absolutely. Maybe maybe some acid and some cocaine.

Definitely. Definitely not a sober mind. This is not on Diet Coke.

Yeah.

This is not a Diet Coke dream.

I think something that lends this movie to being so timeless, though. We were talking about this before. Before you got here. Was it. It stuck to such a beautifully simple 90 page story.

It didn't try to go to like crazy philosophical places. Even though it did have a lot of philosophical discussions within the film about the whole, you know, religion of the users and everything.

Which I gotta say. Oh, my user is one of my favorite sci fi like phrases to say. But they didn't like, overcomplicate it.

They put it enough that it made it interesting and kind of populated a world. But it didn't distract you from the general story.

Right.

See my crazy brain. I was thinking they need a whole, like, prequel movie about like actually like really exploring this religion of the user.

Yeah.

And there's like sacrifices, you know, blood smeared on doors, you know, all kinds of great stuff. You know, just make it really dark.

There we go.

Yeah.

Tron, you know, the sacrifice is the name of it, you know.

Tron dz.

Yeah. D. No, I did like, I.

And there's a couple little things in there that like in the story that they didn't necessarily have to add that definitely elevated it. And the religion thing was kind of cool.

Yeah.

Oh, I think today, 100%.

How so?

Well, I mean, I was watching this movie for the first time. I really knew nothing about the effects that were used. I had not much knowledge about what to expect.

And so much of it had to do with the fact that I had never seen these special effects used before. And I don't know that I have since.

Yeah.

So it feels very much like a one of one.

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

And on top of that, I think it kind of was supposed to be a time capsule for that era of video games, because obviously the whole thing starts basically taking place in Flynn's arcade, and you're surrounded by those types of games. And I'm very glad that we have these, like, resurgence in these barcades that are happening, like, up down here in Nashville.

Or, like, pins mechanical, where you can still go and play these old games. Like, the Tron game is at. Up, down. Like, you can go play Tron right now.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

And it's. It's fantastic. You can play the light cycles. You can go destroy the mcp. Like, they have all these really cool things.

You can fight the little spiders that were crawling around in that one scene. And. And it really captures that moment.

Yeah, No, I agree. And I do. I will say there's some stuff that's hard to watch for long periods of time for me. Mostly like with the. The grayish skin.

Yeah.

You know, I do think those colorations and. And it doesn't take away from how innovative it was. But after living in the world so long, I did get a little tired of some of the hues. And.

And that doesn't. Again, I think it's insanely innovative. And that is.

The weird thing is it's almost like the real stuff doesn't look as good as the. The animated stuff in that movie.

Yeah, yeah.

There's. There's moments we. And. And. But where it picks back up for me is that ending. The ending fight where they're fighting the mcp. And. And that was cool.

And I wasn't expecting it to look the way it did, like this spinning. And I was like, whoa, that is wild. Yeah, I really appreciate that. But, yeah, there's just a couple of down moments where I'm spending too much time.

But my favorite was the highlight scene.

Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

At first, I was kind of like. And then I was like, by the end of it. That was really cool.

So I think you would actually really enjoy the 4K remaster they just put out really literally, like, two days ago, they released this. And I looked at the before and after images, and it fixes every issue, really have with the physical people.

They're very grainy. Yes, they're very grainy.

It fixed that.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I think. Because, again, it's not Just like they went in and rescanned it.

Like, they went through and painstakingly changed the color so it was less hazy and definitely helped with the people being so grainy.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

So you notice that too? Like, there's like. Okay.

And I noticed it when we had our own DVD when I was a kid.

Interesting.

Okay.

It's funny that the.

The.

I guess they're doing the remaster because Eris is coming out. Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, they did both 4k remasters on tron and Tron.

Okay.

Wow, that's. That's cool.

Yeah.

But overall, I think there's some really cool stuff here. And if anything, they just took such a risk to put all this work in, and it obviously changed film.

And it doesn't honestly get enough credit for that.

Absolutely.

It slowly became a cult thing, but even its cult following is still relatively small compared to the impact that it's had. Yeah, we have whole movies now. Like, we did the Snyder Verse. Right. And like, some of those movies just like, they're just chock full of cgi.

Oh, yeah.

And it has this movie to think.

Absolutely.

So, yeah.

Maybe they even decided, like, hey, there's some stuff we can't do.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, there's some stuff that's not sustainable for the industry.

Yeah.

You know, so, you know, definitely felt like a teachable moment in a lot of ways.

Yeah.

CGI versus Story of Tron. So is this a. Is this more of a CGI movie that's based in innovation or the story minus CGI hold up on its own?

I think they both hold up really well because like I said, they could have very easily gone the Blade Runner route and like, really over complicated the philosophy of what they were doing. And I don't think they did.

I think, like I said, I think they dropped just enough details that it would inspire conversation about, oh, what do you think the user religion is like versus the evil people who don't want you to remember that users exist? Like, it opens up those conversations without bogging you down in the philosophy of it. So I think.

I think it's because of that the animation was able to shine through. And the story itself just. Just the plot itself holds up so well that even today, it's a very fun 90 minute adventure to watch.

Yeah, it is.

It is short. Yeah, it's 90 minutes. It's like breath of.

Yeah.

Yeah, it definitely holds up both. I mean, the story definitely without the cgi, the story is still there.

I mean, just the idea of, you know, programs within a System or Volt, you know, just. It's all, it's all a pretty. I think it was of the time. Right. I think like the way that the Matrix. Right.

Like these concepts are always kind of introduced in our movies in different ways at different, you know, different eras. And this just felt kind of like this was that movie for that time. Like gonna really make you think about the system that you're in. Right?

Yeah.

And. But, you know, gonna make it, you know, a bit more technical and in the, in the, In a bigger scheme of something. Right.

Like, it almost felt like Westworld. Right. Where it's like we have this world and then within it we have a few viruses or whatever. Right. So it's.

Right.

I think that that was maybe. I don't know what other movies at that time were kind of really introducing that concept. Yeah. For that, I have to say, the story is.

Definitely holds up.

I think also the story on the outside of the grid is. Is what helped because it's that idea of a corporation stealing someone else's IP is still a very relevant thing story today.

Yeah.

And so even with the. The time and place that it came out, you're still feeling for Flynn.

You're still feeling for the fact that he could have and should have been running this multibillion dollar organization and is just relegated to his arcade because someone stole his stuff.

Yeah.

I mean, we just saw OpenAI. They just. Or Facebook just paid for like a $2 million to get an OpenAI engineer.

Oh, wow.

And there's all these like, tech today and like, obviously, like, there's a lot of rumors about how Mac stole and how Windows stole and how all those guys were stealing each other's code. And you know, and some of it's based on reality too.

Like Windows was accused of stealing from open source to build their product that they sold, and they stole from open source companies that were smaller. Kind of like what comedians do, famous comedians, when they steal from un. You know.

Yeah.

Unknown comedians. It's just everywhere, Right. Stand up comedy, software development. You just steal from. From the little guy. That's how you.

That's how you get there always.

One point I want to make is I. I will say that I don't know to me personally, if the story is as interesting on its own without the cgi, but luckily they complement each other really well.

Exactly.

But one thing that I do give this story points for is that pretty much nine times out of ten, when it comes to sci fi and technology, almost every movie is going to air nihilistic yeah. About technology. This movie is actually a movie that is. Is prefaced upon a positive point of view of technological advance. And maybe because it's.

That's the story of how the movie got made.

Yeah.

Is that they. They were pushing the boundaries technologically in film, and so they wanted to have a positive point of view.

Yeah.

And I mean, this was. This was the early 80s. Like, video games were just starting to come on the scene, even though Pong had been out for what, probably six years by then.

Yeah.

Like, you were just starting to see these arcades, like, really become the place to hang out.

Yes.

So, yeah, I think the people who were invested in. In that part of the world, like, wanted to see it go as far as it could. Wanted to see what the PS5 would eventually come out with.

Yeah.

This is before they knew you could get doxed.

Yeah.

You know, for, you know, having one of the wrong opinions, you know. But I think it's interesting. I mean, Terminator comes out two years later and honestly sets a new low for how.

In terms of how we view technology through the eyes of entertainment.

Yeah.

It literally said technology is here to literally take over and destroy you.

Yeah.

And it said it two years later. Whereas this is saying, yes, there's some negatives, but overall, like, this is an aspiration. You see it a lot in Legacy.

We'll talk about Legacy next. But there's definitely an aspirational innovators point of view.

Oh, absolutely.

Like, Flynn gets compared to Steve Jobs a lot when you will go out and research this movie. He's a Steve Jobs figure. Even though Steve Jobs was a dick behind closed doors to the public. He was a nice guy, but like, oh, he made the iPad.

Is like how many people he killed to get that iPad.

Yeah.

But anyway, so that's. Yeah, interesting. Cool. All right.

So I. I had to do a lot of research on a film to pick counter to this, but there are still a lot of people that think this is peak Jeff Bridges.

But.

But is. Is this his best role or is it Big Lebowski?

Is it?

You know how I felt about Big Lebowski.

I know.

I absolutely hated that movie.

I know.

I think peak Jeff Bridges role would actually be True Grit.

Yeah.

That is my absolute favorite acting performance from him ever. But this, I would say is his most underrated role.

Yeah.

I don't think he gets the credit for how fun this role was and being that massive fish out of water story where he's an actual human being that's suddenly subjected to the rules of A digital world. Like, I love. Absolutely love that about this role for him. So, no, I think this is probably.

I can't say it's his best role, but I think it's his most underrated role. I don't think it's talked about enough.

So you definitely think it's better than Big Lebowski?

100%. I think almost anything he's done is better than Big Lebowski.

Speaking of nihilism, Internet, there's nihilist in the Big Lebowski, too. And they're here. They're here on the Movie wars podcast.

Well, they're about to go off on me because I'm not a huge Jeff Bridges fan, and I probably have to agree with Seth. I think True Grit was probably my favorite. Jeff Bridges. It's so good performance. Everything else has really just felt like I'm watching an actor.

Yeah.

Playing a character, not somebody embodying a character.

Yeah.

To your point. Really thought this was a fun movie. I think his acting is pretty terrible, but I think it's fun, you know? So.

Yeah, I think it fits the vibe of the film.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

But no, I mean, never really seen the appeal of Jeff Bridges, unfortunately. Come at me takes today.

Well, I am a big Lebowski enthusiast. He. In fact. Seth got me a pen. Where did you get that thing you got me? The.

Oh, from Loot Crate.

It's on my desk. Yeah, I love that thing, and I.

Love the Big Lebowski, but not because of Jeff.

Yeah, well, there's. There's something in there for everybody. I. Except for Seth. I am a. A just giant fan of the Big Lebowski, and I think Bridges is. Is trans.

He's just transformative in that movie here.

I think when he's outside of the pro, when he's outside of the game, he's funny, endearing, and he has that weird optimism as an act, as a character when he's not in the game. Once that translates to the digital world, I think it does fall apart a little bit. But I do think he's very. It's funny.

He's got kind of a weird naivety about him in this movie where he's always kind of got that. I don't know if he was coached to act it that way, but there's always an inherent optimism to how he handles problems.

He's definitely, like, somewhat of a hippie that has stayed true to himself in the 80s, like, philosophically, because I feel like. Yeah.

By.

By the end of the 70s, the kind of hippie movement had just kind of died out.

Yeah.

Obviously you still have people today who would consider themselves hippies, but the movement, I feel like, had fully died out. And he feels like that, that.

That guy who was a hippie in the 70s, who then discovered what technology was becoming and just put all of his focus in on that while still maintaining this come on, man.

Kind of vibe, which is not too far off from the reality. I mean, I've been in tech for, you know, 16 years, and there really.

There actually is a very real aspect to the fact that a lot of the early technologists were. Did have hippie roots, actually.

Oh, yeah.

And especially once Silicon Valley jobs.

Yeah.

Once Silicon Valley got kind of established and there's like hippies going through Berkeley and through all these universities over there. So the technology industry has been heavily impacted by folks that not maybe not be hippies, but definitely have hippie, like, dotted line beliefs.

Yeah.

And. And also you even read today that there's a. There's all these Silicon Valley people. A lot of them are in cults today. Oh, yeah.

And communes and a lot of them. And. And it's weird. And I don't. I personally think this might sound really.

Not, I'll say nihilistic again, but I think a lot of technologists, I can't tell if it's.

They actually go into technology with these roots or if they form this idea of utopian society and post to justify how their technologies negatively impact the world. And like, well, it's utopia, you know, if we could just do this, it'll save the world and solve this problem.

And it's them reconciling in their minds. Like, I know I have $1.9 billion, but. But, but we just need all the people, man. You know, and it's just like, I.

Know we're employing slave labor in China, but the people.

But the people, man, and peace and shit, so.

But I do think there is a. I give him credit for the optimism that his character display, because I do think if you watch interviews with Zuckerberg, with any of the guy except for Bezos, Bezos is like, whatever, dude.

Jeffrey.

Yeah.

Different Jeff.

Yeah.

Jeff's like, cut your dick off, bro. I don't care. But I do like that.

But you know what's funny is today Bridges is if you didn't watch this movie and you were more familiar with his later work, he kind of does like, true grit kind of established him as almost like this grizzly, you know, bearded, kind of like, you know, almost southern.

Yeah.

But he's not that way in real life. And a lot of his other roles are not like that. Yeah, that was a later thing for him.

100.

What show did he do? What's that show? Is it the Old Man? Is that what it's called?

Oh, yeah.

So, yeah, I think that's what it's called.

And he looks exactly like he does in True Grit in that. In that show. But.

RIPD I still haven't seen it. I've heard that is my favorite Jeff Bridges movie, guys. Sorry.

Hell, yeah.

But anyway, if you didn't decipher from my answer, I. It's a mega. Hell, yeah. I'm Big Lebowski. It's in my top 50. The dude is forever. The dude is forever. Next question. Oscar snub, or do you.

Do you side with the academy at this time? I mean, they're fair. They didn't pick it for best effects because they were afraid of computers, and they didn't want to.

Basically, they didn't want to give affirmation to the fact that this was the future.

Yeah.

No?

No.

I think. I think consistently the Oscars have been on the wrong side of both history and film history.

And this just shows that the Oscars is not about innovation. The Oscars are not about how do we actually make the medium better. It's about pandering to what has been in the past.

The lobbyists.

Absolutely. And, I mean, we've seen it all throughout, you know, his history. We've seen some of. Some of the.

The fact that Leo won his Oscar for the Revenant and not so many of his other roles that he did that I consider to be so much better and better films is absurd. But they gave him that one for that year because they were pandering. It was all about just like, well, we got to give him one. So I guess we'll give.

We'll do this.

Here's. We'll give him the one he says four words.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's just. Yeah. And I mean, like, that. That.

That speech where Marlon Brando didn't show up, but instead he sent a representative from the Native American community to sit there and condemn the Oscars treatment of Native Americans. Like, they've just consistently Been on the wrong side of everything.

Yeah.

And I think. Yeah. This. This is just another example of them being fearful of the future instead of figuring out how it can be incorporated for everyone's benefit.

And I think. I think it's like you said earlier, it's something similar with AI.

Like, I feel like instead of fighting it, they should be figuring out how it can enhance everybody's lives, but also make sure that real people are still going to be involved.

I'm reading this. It didn't even get nominated.

Yeah.

No, that's what I'm saying. I refused to nominate.

I thought it just lost, but it got nominated for Best Costume Design and Best Sound. But it didn't even get nominated that year.

That's what I'm saying.

That's a freaking atrocity. That probably the best effects that year is like, they used really cool paint.

Yeah.

And they're like, but this is cheating. So. No, we're not gonna. That's crazy. They had to animate via spreadsheet, and that's cheating.

I. I misread that because I thought it was nominated and lost, but it didn't even get nominated. See, that's. I'll. I'll go and then you go. But now that I've realized that I was. That's a crime. To not even nominate it is one thing.

Yep.

I. I should have won. But to not even. To not even give it a nod for. Hey, that was kind of crazy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Could you figure that out with the code and all the stuff? He. Could you have done that?

Yeah.

No.

And now we're looking at Marvel movies getting nominated for Best Visual Effects when they look shittier than this did.

I know. Oh, it's so. That's so true. What do you think?

Yeah. No, I mean, terrible decision not to include it.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't know why you wouldn't. I don't know what rule it broke. You know, it just doesn't make much sense.

It wasn't animation.

Yeah. It just doesn't make.

Wasn't painted, so it wasn't animation.

Right. And it doesn't fall into a specific category. Whatever you want to call.

I mean, it's where we still experience that today with things like the bear getting nominated for Best Comedy or whatever. Right. It's like certain things that don't fall into a certain category. You know? But that doesn't mean. Again, when we've all learned that these.

These award shows don't necessarily mean you're the best. It just means more. You were the most marketable. There was a.

You know, and sometimes not winning or being nominated for these things ends up creating more support.

Yeah.

I will say I. And this isn't me. I won't change my answer, but this is a crazy year, though. Here's the.

Here's the films that were nominated, and there's only three that were nominated that year. E. T. Oh, Blade Runner, and get this, poltergeist.

I'm assuming ET1.

ET did win.

Yeah.

And I'm gonna say this. As innovative as this was, Poltergeist had some pretty insane.

The part where the guy tears his face apart in the mirror, like when he's having that nightmare that was even today. That's disgusting.

Saying, this should have won.

Right.

But the nods should have been there. They should have understood that this was groundbreaking technology.

This legitimately was not just the future, but predicting things that weren't going to happen for another 20 years.

Yeah, well.

And they just ignored it.

Well, they do have technical innovation Oscars, too. I interviewed the guy that invented the. The CGI that they used for Total Recall.

Okay.

And he won a technological Oscar for that. It wasn't like an Oscar, but it like an Oscar of innovation because what? The way he used cgi, Getting an.

Honorary doctorate, Even Kanye has one.

It was a. It was a technical Oscar, which isn't technically an Oscar.

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. It's so true. So funny. Okay, that was good.

But technically is technically.

I mean.

Yeah.

It's like when someone gets an honorary Oscar, the fact that.

That Andy Serkis didn't get nominated for acting for Gollum, didn't get nominated for acting for Caesar from the Planet of the Apes movies, I think is an atrocity. And it's. It's the fact that they have basically decided if your physical face is not on screen, then you're not acting.

Yeah.

It's like. It's. It's like they're so afraid of the innovation aspect of it that though they would rather go with the most Oscar baity bullshit.

Yeah.

And pick that over a movie that everyone enjoyed. It also never aligns with the dollars.

Like, as much as I'm not a big fan of superhero movies, it's where the dollars are and it's where people are spending their money. And whenever they get snubbed, I'm like, listen, I don't like them. But a lot of people do. And you don't even consider them in your award ceremony.

So it's like, what does that mean? What message does that say?

Or you put one in because it's political, but you're never going to even take it seriously.

Yeah.

Because that's genuinely what happened with Black Panther. If you were going to pick a Marvel movie from that year, Infinity War, 100% should have been the one nominated for Best Picture.

Yeah.

But they gave it the nomination, even though they had no intention of letting it win. They gave the nomination to Black Panther because they felt like the optics were better.

Oh, yeah.

And it just. And don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoyed optics.

Optics were better.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Technically.

Yeah, technically, the optics were better, But.

I didn't know that I enjoyed Black Panther. Like, I think any objective person can look at it in Infinity War and be like, no, no, no. Infinity War was a better movie on. On every side of. Of.

Of, you know, the spectrum.

They had to lose one for Wakanda.

Yeah.

Even though the big battle in Infinity War was in Wakanda.

Yeah.

Last question. Who slash what won the movie for you, and who slash, what lost the movie for you?

With this one? It's. It's very difficult for me to find something that lost the movie for me, because even the worst thing about it, I think, is still really good.

And I think at this point, the only thing that might even remotely come close to quote, unquote, losing it for me would just be that I do feel like attention was put everywhere. But the acting. Acting was passable. Acting was fine.

But you're not going to look at anyone's performance in this movie and be like, that's a groundbreaking acting. Performance.

Performance. Yeah.

But again, even. And. And I think we could all agree Jeff Bridges was probably the worst actor on screen for this, especially in the grid. It was still fun.

It was still enjoyable. Like, I never sat there and didn't question or like, I never sat there and questioned, like, the rest of the movie because.

Right.

A line wasn't delivered the best way it possibly could be. But I think.

I think what won this movie for me is genuinely how everything came together so well, because just because the acting wasn't as great and. And maybe the. The script could have had a little more depth. Like Blade Runner.

I didn't even realize the Blade Runner came out the same year, so that's actually really cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like the whole composition of everything coming together and new technology with the animation, but also, like, telling this. This very good story, like, from start to finish. I just Think it all comes together so well that, that, that's really what wanted for me is how.

How seamlessly it came together.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, what lost it for me a couple of times was the big words.

Yeah.

You know, talking about all this technical stuff, just feeling like, oh, you're just throwing in stuff now. Like, what does this even mean?

Yeah, it's like when you need tech support at work and the IT guy hops on and he's like, belittling you.

Yeah, yeah.

Or like when a French speaker speaks to anyone who speaks English.

Yeah.

What took me out of it was also a couple moments where I was like, this just feels like a Star wars force corridor. This feels like something I would see there. Otherwise, what made the movie for me, everything else, you know, it was just fun.

Again, the visual effects, just the general story, just this good versus evil. The light heartedness. Jeff Bridges remind me of like Han Solo for some reason, so you know that that's what, what ultimately kept me engaged.

Yeah.

That. I was like, wait, Disney made this movie?

Yeah.

I was like, this is pretty deep, pretty heavy stuff. Like, this is not for kids at all.

Yeah.

80S was a crazy time for Disney. And that's actually where a lot of their.

Even animated film films have kind of like fallen out of the company's favor because I think it was the, the. The Dark Cauldron came out in the 80s.

Oh, did it?

No one ever talks about that movie because Disney kind of put it in the vault. Very quiet.

Really?

Yeah.

Why?

It was very dark. And they just, they. They felt like it didn't represent the vibe the company wanted to go for.

And then they followed it up with Rescuers down under, which was still dark but had a much lighter tone to it.

Yeah.

So they, they kind of were getting out of that experimental darkness that they had in the 80s once they hit the end of the 80s. Yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah, I.

What won this movie for me was the. The innovation is obviously really cool. I just think it's a big step forward. And some of the imagery is really unforgettable.

Like, there's a lot of, like, things you see on screen and they're hard to forget.

Yeah.

Because they're so just like encapsulated the colors are really wicked. And like, that highlight scene, to me is the best scene in the movie. Just like, it was so fun and I. I just enjoyed it thoroughly.

Yeah.

The light cycle scene also just. I love that so much.

Yes. Just memorable images.

Yeah.

And the thing that lost it for me was some of the. I said this earlier, but some of the coloration just kind of overstayed its welcome.

Yeah.

I think the movie could have used. I mean, it's an hour 30, which is a good run time, and they probably. That's all the runtime they could render.

Yeah.

Because they had. That's all they could render her out. It's honestly a shock. It's that long.

Yeah.

But if they could add a minute to this movie's total run time and just take us back to real world for a minute. I just found myself, especially with the grainy colorization, which it sounds like the 4K fixed.

Yeah. Yeah.

I would be interested to see your thoughts on the 4k.

I just needed to touch grass for a minute.

Yeah.

Just at some point, not for a long time, I just kind of wanted to go back to planet Earth.

Yeah.

And because the. The grainy colors, I got kind of tired of. It kind of over. Overstayed its welcome.

When it picks up for the third act, though, and we start to get in that final boss battle, that's when I'm like, in the colors where I was like, all in again. But there was a minute there, I was like, okay, I. This gray skin tone with the grain. I'm like, I. I just need to see a real person in the real world.

Attack. An accountant, a parking attendant. Just give me a real person for just 30 seconds. Just remind me there's a real planet somewhere.

And that was my only thing, was I just could have touched grass for a minute.

Yeah.

I feel that fair.

Yeah.

But I can't stand the movie with this one, it's like. Like, wow. Like, I'm just baffled by what they did.

Yeah.

So. And I can't. And honestly, so many of my favorite movies wouldn't exist if it wasn't for this movie.

Absolutely.

This.

I mean, again, I forget.

I forget what the movie was, but there was a movie that came out three years later that a lot of people consider it to be the first animated character. It looks like Utter Dog coming out of this movie, like, it's terrible.

Well, I texted you about the Lawnmower Man.

Oh, yeah, yeah. So that might be the one I'm thinking of.

It might be.

That's what I'm thinking.

No, this is 85.

Okay.

Yeah.

But the movie is actually kind of cool. It's got Pierce Brosnan in it, and it's a very interesting concept, and it's really good until they. They do a digital world. Like, the whole.

The idea is that this guy is. He's. He's, you know, he's got a disability and.

Yeah.

And they want to use virtual gaming reality to. To see if it can help him learn.

Okay.

Yeah.

Like, they're doing this, but 92 in a Stephen King movie.

Yeah.

They literally are putting utter dog shit out there because it's a virtual world. It's the same thing. And their perception of it even, like. It's even like. And they had 10 years of technology and computers behind them at this point.

Yeah.

To. To refer to.

Well, I think part of it also might be they never went full digital, except for some of the big shots. Because a lot of the times, like. Like, for example, Clue at the beginning, when.

When Flynn is trying to get him through and he's in the tank, the inside of that tank is a real set.

Oh, wow.

Like, that's a fully real set.

And they used that and composited it with some of the digital stuff, but, like, they used as much real things as they could in order to have that balance. So you would have somewhat of a seamless transition between the two.

Right.

And we'll actually get into a lot of that more with Tron Legacy, because that was one of the big things that the director of Tron Legacy wanted to get across, was making sure there was a lot of reality within the digital world.

All right, let's close this baby out with the War Zone. What do you say?

We want.

Let's do it. So new since last time we were here, we do rapid fire. Each house goes through four categories.

It's cast, it's writing, directing, and then composition. Composition, yes. And that's where you talk about, you know, editing, graphics, stunts, all the things.

Sound design, the mechanics.

What do you think?

So, okay acting, for me, it is a squeak over. Everyone did fine. No one did bad in my opinion. But again, nothing stand out. So it's, it's, it's fine. Just a little bit of above average acting.

The writing, I think, is very solid. Again, you're not, you're not looking at Blade Runner.

You're not looking at this crazy, like philosophical in depth discussion about the users versus the programs. But there's just enough that it leaves you wanting more, which I think a good movie leaves you wanting more.

More, yeah.

So story wise, writing wise, I think it's absolutely fantastic directing. Obviously, without the director at the helm who ended up being the producer on Tron Legacy, this would not have happened.

You would not have had these crazy leaps in the technology and the way that filmmaking was being utilized at the time. So it is an absolute yes for me. And then composition, I mean, obviously everything we've talked about, the sound design, absolutely incredible.

The animation, the fact that they're literally animating via spreadsheet is something I just can't get over that they have six columns of numbers where everything has to be in each shot. And they're basically going at it blind down to the practical stuff they were doing with film layering and practical sets.

And the music, the fact that the music even was such a step forward for the technology, it's across the board a resounding yes with a small squeak over just specifically with acting.

Beautiful.

Yeah.

So for Clean Sweep for you.

Yeah, yeah, I'm going Clean Sweep. Like Seth, you know, similar acting was.

It.

Was, it was, it was enough to buy us into this world. You know, it was, it wasn't. We weren't meant to be grounded in this reality. We were building a world and everybody kept us in that world.

It had moments of being playful, it had moments of being intense and serious with the stakes being high. So enjoyed that writing. Yeah, really fun, thought provoking. You know, you never really knew what word was going to come next.

None of the writing was predictable at all. And maybe a lot of that had to do with a lot of the words and stuff that they used. But, you know, the writing never felt predictable.

What's the next composition?

Directing.

Directing.

I mean.

Yeah, I mean, this only works if the director is totally committed and fully bought in. Right. This felt like something where you're telling somebody your idea and they're like, yeah, I want to tell us.

I want to write a movie about like a Guy who. Who goes in, you know, kind of felt like Osmosis Jones. Right, guys. Like, I'm gonna go.

And I want to tell the story of the inside of the body through the lens of a germ.

Yeah.

You know, or whatever. Or, like, you know, somebody.

That's a really good way of putting that, actually.

Yeah.

So it kind of had, like, had that. Had that. And so with that, you just have. You need. You need commitment. Right. And you need to, like, almost take it too far.

And I feel like that's what they did.

And then.

Yeah.

Composition.

Yeah.

Yeah. The music sound is that.

That's actually just all the things like editing, stunts, graphics, music.

Again, for its time, it was just. I'm watching it now, and I kind of want to go back and watch it again.

Yeah.

Right. I feel like I'm going to enjoy it more the second time.

Yeah.

Because the first time I was kind of, like, just surprised Disney put this movie out.

Yeah.

So, yeah. I mean, it's getting thumbs up for me. Across the board.

Across the board for me. Acting. I think it's a squeak. I don't. There's no performances here that make me say, holy shit.

Yeah.

There's just not. I think there is a reason. I think their vision was so big and they had so much on their plate.

Like you said, they were blindly making a new world with CGI that they didn't know necessarily how it was going to turn out. So I don't think, like, going out there and getting Jeff bridges to do 50 takes of a line was necessarily an option they had.

But, you know, I do think.

And how do you upstage the world? Right. Like, it's like an Avatar.

Yeah.

Did anybody upstage the world of Avatar?

Exactly.

It's a good point. So it's a squeak above because I do think there's a good reason for it. But this could have used one real big, like, strong performance.

I. I just think, you know, I. I was. And that's how I am with every film. I'm just like, whose performance is, like, gonna blow me away? And there's none here.

But the world is so overwhelming, and.

The characters are still memorable.

Yes.

But like you said.

Yeah, it's.

It's definitely. You're not gonna. You're. There's no reason any of them should have been nominated for Oscars.

Yes.

Correct. Yes. As far as writing goes, it's funny. I wanted to go negative on this one, but then there's a couple of zingers.

Yeah.

They sneak in here that are memorable and the program's quote I didn't know was from this movie. The. What is it? What do they say? Greetings, programs, or. Yeah, yeah, I, I've heard that thousands of times. Not knowing it was from Tron.

Yeah.

And that's. I love that. That is Jeff Bridges.

Yeah.

Phrase throughout the whole movie.

So it's funny because on one hand, like, I think the writing is, Is kind of. It has to serve the imagery.

Yeah.

But they did managed to sneak in two things that impressed me. It was the zingers of the lines, and then it was the religion thing.

Yeah.

That was kind of a neat little thing. They injected in there. And it takes a bigger life on in the next one. There's more implications of that, but.

And I would have liked to see it expounded a little more just because I like dark stuff. I'm like, oh, what, you know, what is a worship ceremony look like for the users? You know, are they sacrificing other programs?

You know, is there a Quran or a book, you know, that they got? It's like, what do they got here? But no, still a cool concept. Still a very cool concept. They didn't have to do it, but they did. Yeah.

No, I, I, so and then directing, I mean, this one's a banger.

I.

This dude wrote it. He directed it, and he had a big vision and that nobody wanted him to do it. And then it ends up changing film.

Yeah.

I don't know what else to say about that. And then composition, you know, I think this is. Yeah, I give it a yes. I think. Think like I said, some of the coloration overstays its welcome.

I'm just kind of like the graininess and just some of the colors. And I wanted to touch grass, but that's not enough to take away from what this movie did and how it innovated.

I would have been really interested to see its original footage on film in.

Right 82.

Yeah.

Because I think I feel like the, the 4K remaster is probably emulating that a little better.

Yeah. I mean, in Terminator 2, it took the scene where, you know, where the officer comes out of the ground.

Yeah.

And he's. He's himself and he stabs himself in the eye. That took two days to render that scene.

Yeah.

So two entire days. So what was the render time, like 10 years earlier for this movie?

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, they hit render and they. For a year, they go out on a vacation, come back. Is it done? No. All right, let's go back to the Caribbean.

But so just incredible. And I just love resilience. I just love the idea of someone, like, having a risky idea that nobody supports.

And we'll throw you a few million, but, you know, we don't have any hope. And then, bam. So that's a cool story. So I go, yeah, Clean sweep. Yeah, Clean Sweep. So we're going to do Tron Legacy next.

We're going to take a breather, and I hope you're there with us next week when we come back, because Evan's going to be back crushing it.

He will.

Yes. I'm Kyle.

I'm Seth.

I'm Evan.

Thanks for having me.

Goodbye.