The podcast delves into the vital relationship between teaching and learning, emphasizing that the best teachers are also perpetual students. KV Banks highlights the importance of maintaining a growth mindset, suggesting that when educators stop seeing themselves as learners, they hinder their own effectiveness. The discussion transitions into the qualities that make a teacher exceptional, focusing on innovation, communication, and the ability to explain complex concepts clearly. Sean adds that effective teachers often have struggled through their learning process, making them more adept at guiding others. Throughout the episode, there’s a strong emphasis on the need for understanding the "why" behind musical concepts, illustrating how true mastery involves not just borrowing techniques but owning them through contextual application.

Takeaways:

• The best teachers are those who continuously see themselves as students, always learning.
• A teacher's struggle and ability to communicate their process are crucial for effective teaching.
• It's important to understand the 'why' behind musical concepts to truly grasp them.
• Ownership of musical ideas comes from sustained practice and context, not just memorization.
• Innovative thinking and the willingness to explore new ideas are essential for teaching.
• Effective teaching involves breaking down complex ideas into understandable steps for students.

Well, I always believe that the best teachers are students.

And if you get so far as a teacher that you don't see yourself as a student anymore, then you're just done.

You know, you've made the choice and no longer wanting to grow.

So even though I am a teacher, I'm always in the position of a student because I'm always trying to learn and become better.

In fact, that's what I believe is the only thing that's gonna make me a better teacher.

Because even though I may know a lot now, I don't know everything, you know, and there's so much more to learn.

So I'm like, why stay in this little box here?

You know?

So I think the best teachers are always students.

So what I'm looking for in a teacher is somebody who, in essence, has the same heart that, you know, we're.

We're just.

We're sharing knowledge.

They're able to be thorough, you know, Like, I do have a style of teaching.

I'm not necessarily looking for somebody that teaches like me.

It was just.

I think it's a blessing that I found Sean, because I believe we think alike, you know, in many ways.

And.

And actually, that's why I forgot to say.

I didn't say that in our.

In our meeting when I got introduced to Sean.

But he also confirmed I wasn't crazy because there was a lot of ideas that I felt like this should be able to work.

And then he said the same thing.

I was like.

I knew I wasn't crazy.

I knew this was possible.

So, like, you know, no, having somebody that's.

That's innovative, you know, that's willing to think outside the box.

Those are the things that I look for in somebody, say, okay, I can listen to this person.

Got you.

And maybe glean something from them.

It's great.

That's a good question.

And y'all may not even realize this, but KV has called me.

He's texted me.

I've.

I've dropped a YouTube video, and KV has texted him, like, yo, Sean, I was thinking about you sending that last video.

And then we've gotten on the phone and we've talked about ideas, you know, this kind of thing.

And that conversation that he had with me got me thinking, even though I wasn't coming, maybe from that angle, but he got me thinking about how he was thinking about something.

I was like, that's interesting.

So that actually out of that conversation came my altered.

What's called my altered system, which is a way to use the altered scale in order to come up with a whole lot of cool chords.

So one of the things that I look at for a teacher, so you'll find you're.

You're going to find that a lot of pianists, particularly musicians who play well, tend not to teach well.

Okay, okay.

And, and I know I always drop bombs every time I come here.

You don't have another one here.

The reason, the, yeah, the reason for that is because usually people who have played well, they've kind of, in my opinion, they hit a sweet spot where they're automating so many things that by the time they're finished with that automation process could be years.

They've.

They're not able to tell you what they did because they were in that sweet spot.

They were in that zone where they just learn.

And so people like.

And you see Jaden Arnold and you see Corey Henry and you see them barely thinking when they're playing.

So you have to, you have to wonder if they're not, if they're not even thinking when they're playing, how are they supposed to all of a sudden now think when you tell them, well, show us this?

And now they're all of a sudden supposed to become this, you know, dissector of what they're doing.

But that's not how they got to where they got.

So the reason I say that is because one of the things that I tend to look for in teacher is a struggle.

Because what you find is that the people who do struggle to get to where they're going, who have a lot of questions, they actually are better able to explain the process of how they got there.

Yeah, and that's very important because a lot of really good musicians, they didn't have that struggle.

They didn't have to struggle.

They may have just been so gifted that they didn't go through the process of having to kind of work out this and work out that, work out that.

You're just boom, boom, boom, boom, like, you know what I'm saying?

And so we admire that.

And that's great.

But I think the downside is they don't always have the capacity to take you now through a step by step and say, here's how I got there.

They just.

They're great.

Right?

So that's, I think that's the downside of, of having musicians who just pick up everything.

And you're thinking, oh, because, because I struggle to learn this and I struggle.

But actually there's a benefit there.

Right.

And that benefit is your ability to now take this idea Take this concept and.

And.

And say, okay, I can actually show exactly what I did because I had to struggle, right?

So struggling and communication are the two big things.

Because if you struggle, you're going to.

You're going to know it, but then your ability to communicate an idea.

I think those two things is what I would see with kb because I see him working out processes.

I see him doing that.

I'm seeing him going through that.

How does this work?

Why does it work?

Hey, Sean, I think, what if we did this?

Oh, this is a minor chord over the.

Blah, blah, blah.

So he's doing that.

Right.

And so I know that that's how he's thinking of the process, which makes him a good teacher because he's already going through that analysis in his mind to try to figure that out.

So.

So that's what I would say in terms of, like, the whole teaching thing.

Andre, in terms of your question of what I'm thinking, he's a good teacher.

Because everybody thinks that just because somebody can play, they should be able to teach me.

And then they go and say, I asked this question on the organ.

It's always bothered me when they did that because they assume that the person knows what they're doing.

And I keep telling people, if you're trying to get to automation, where you're not thinking, how can you then ask the person to think?

We've just told them that the height of music is not thinking, right?

That we just told them that your ability to play and not think, that's where we're trying to get you to.

And then.

So now you're trying to approach those guys who are there and ask them to do the opposite and ask them, what were you thinking about?

They weren't thinking.

So we can't.

We can't approach it like that.

Everybody's not a teacher.

So people just.

Yeah, yeah.

And so I think we just have to recognize that there's different types of musicians.

There's different people, you know?

Um, and so, yeah, that's.

So, you know, for me, this is my thing, the gift.

That's my gift.

I can.

I can explain things down because I went through the struggle.

Ironically, the thing that is very difficult for me to teach is the thing that I didn't struggle as much with, and that's ear.

Because I've always just heard stuff.

I'm hearing stuff right now.

So then when.

So when people say, sean, take us through, like, how you hear, that's difficult now, right?

Because.

Yeah, yes, I understand it now from the other Musician.

I'm like, dang.

I don't know.

I just hear it like, yeah.

You understand what I'm saying?

Yeah.

So that's why I can say anybody who just gets something like that, it's hard for them to teach, because how do you.

What are you supposed to say?

You didn't struggle to.

To do that.

I just knew it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right?

I don't know.

I just play yes, right?

Or yeah, right.

Yeah, I can.

I can.

I can teach it anything.

I've had to go through the process myself.

I could teach it anything that has been gifted.

I can't teach it.

I have a hard time teaching it.

That makes a lot of sense.

We gotta teach that chicken.

That's why.

Yeah.

That was probably one of the most.

One of the most serious teaching moments we've had on this podcast.

We're all just trying our best to ignore the rooster in the room.

Slept in today.

Because I was like, there's no reason for the digestive getting up, hollering right now.

He's supporting me.

That's what it is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're preaching hard, brother.

Oh, that was amazing.

That was funny.

Such a true breakdown.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was.

That was a great.

But even.

Even to Sean's point, like, I'm sorry, but like, to Sean's point, like, okay, yes, I'm a preacher.

I started preaching.

I was 14.

My pastor do it.

Okay, okay.

Yeah.

Damn.

Oh, yeah.

Literally started preaching 14, started playing Oregon, 15.

So there's that.

Wow.

But do you ever do both at the same time?

I was about to ask that, but I wanted to wait.

Oh, yeah.

Wow.

Preaching first.

And then a year later, everybody graduated and threw me on Oregon.

So that was that.

Okay.

But my pastor and studying, he always taught me.

He said, when you read the Bible, always read it with the question, why?

In the back of your head.

That's always going to force you to study and dig deeper.

You're going to find out more information about what's going on in the scripture.

I just took that concept and applied it to music.

So whenever I'm playing something, like, I.

There got to a point where I was playing things and didn't know what it was.

And I would start to ask, okay, well, why does this work?

Why.

Why is this move?

Why does it sound so good?

You know, why.

Why do I love this diminished move so much?

Like, when I started asking those why questions, it started to.

To push me to learn more, which is why I got into that space of I need another teacher, because I'M asking questions I don't really know how to answer.

And so when I.

That was one of the.

Really pulled me to Sean, because Sean kept answering the why questions.

He's not just saying, oh, yeah, hey, hey, guys.

So, you know, you got this chord.

Just play this, you know.

You know how he does real soft talk, you know, hey, guys, you know, hey, folks, folks, you know.

You know, he didn't just throw chords out at me.

He was like, you know, play this.

You know the reason why, because it's a and that dominant.

You know, when he just gets real smooth with his NPR voice, man, you know, he about to drop something.

So.

So tr.

But he kept answering those questions, like, now it makes sense.

Now I know why this works.

So now it allows me to use it however I want to.

That's great.

And now, you know, kind of what makes a great teacher and what kind of makes you both stand out.

Because you could search YouTube high and low, and you'll find chords for days.

You'll find even breakdowns for days.

But you could sit there with the breakdown, you could sit down with someone showing you the dopest chords, the fattest chords, and have nothing to do with them except play them.

But in context, you revert right back to everything that you know by muscle memory.

And I remember those feelings, and I've seen other people do it too.

You go home, you get the biggest chord.

I'm not a keyboard player, so it doesn't really apply in that context, but you get them.

You get whatever the thing is, right?

And then when you're thrown into the fire when the pressure's on, they switch songs, they switch keys.

That goes out the window because you memorize something but you didn't understand, as Sean always talks about, you didn't understand the why was KZKV said, but also the vocabulary behind it and the context and all the other things that you need to make what you learned apply to what you're doing.

So they.

They borrows, but they don't have ownership of the courts.

Damn.

Okay.

Yeah.

Like, you play and just is.

Is.

Is borrowed in that moment.

And you can play it, and as long as you play it, you'll remember it, but then you'll forget it if you stop playing it after a few weeks and don't remember how to use it.

But if you want to take ownership of it, that's what it.

A practice of engrafting into your vocabulary.

And that requires context.

Not just you played the chord and it sounds cool.

You gotta be able to Put this in live situations.

I was telling Sean, like, one of the things that I learned was that sharp nine, sharp five chord.

I fell in love with that chord.

And I literally took an entire year on that one chord.

And every Sunday, every rehearsal, every time I was on the piano, I found a way to use that same chord.

And I can get there any key, in any moment, at any time, I can pull a sharp 9, sharp 5 chord.

Almost in my sleep now, because I.

I wanted to own it, not just borrow it and use it because it sounded cool in this one song.

I love that.

So to own it.

Remember I used to say that you.

Can put in the time.

No, Go ahead, Sean.

No, I said.

I used to say that all the time in terms of how long I would spend.

And people would always be like.

Remember I just talked about that.

I spent.

I spent a year on this scale.

People always be like.

Because the normal musician wants to join the site and they just want to boom, boom.

And I'm like, but vocabulary doesn't work that way.

And I love what you said earlier, Anthony, that you're always going to default back to your base.

Yep.

Like in when the pressure's on, you can only fall back to your base.

So our job is to raise the base.

Right.

So adding licks and adding things, those are just.

Those don't actually raise the base.

Right.

So if we raise the base, then when we fall back to that.

So that's.

Because that's what everyone complains about.

I'm gonna fall back to the same old chords I'm always playing.

Same old thing.

I'm always doing.

Well, We.

How do you raise that?

Right.

And so, yeah, so we have to raise our base and there's.

That has to be done with sustained focus, practice.

It's difficult because, you know.

Yeah.

At the end of the day, you know, I have to get people in by showing them, you know.

Yeah, these, these licks that other guys are doing.

I can show y'all what those are.

Right.

I mean.

Right, so I gotta bring them in.

Yes.

But then once we bring them in, it's kind of like, oh, okay, now we gotta manage expectations.

This is.

That's the tricky part, you know, in terms of the.

In terms of the website overall.

But going back to the course, I think it's going to be really good because what KV is doing with this is he is teaching people from all levels.

So he is, he's, he's, he's.

He's helping and he's even showing from this angle, like a beginner you know, he's showing historical, then he's going to go and do.

But, but, but, you know, generally I do want to say that for congregational songs, we're not going to spend a whole lot of time on beginners because we expect that you, if you're going to be asked to play in a church setting, you know, there's an expectation there that you already know your skills and you already know your course.

So, so there is a, you know, so I am kind of wanting him to kind of go ahead and focus on, you know, how to play and not so much, you know, okay, here's how to form a chord because that kind of thing you should already have.

So he's just doing basic foundational songs.

But, you know, he may do like a beginner version and, you know, immediate version, but that may be the most kind of that we do with that.

But yeah, if you're asked to play for a church, then, you know, we would think that you already know kind of your basics and just the minimal foundation there.

I have a, I have a follow up question to what you just said there.

And just as far as, because we mentioned the approach being different between organ and piano, specifically gospel organ.

Gospel piano.

So I know it's not as simple as saying I have this foundation on piano.

I could jump to organ because your voicings are going to be different.

So is there a specific way that you're going to approach that as far as just maybe the fundamental differences between how you even approach playing the same song on organ?

Absolutely.

That's actually what I'm doing in this course because every, everything that I'm teaching, I'm doing on piano and organ.

So you see how you would approach both of them, because I think I said this in the last session.

You can always tell a piano player that's on the organ and vice versa, an organ player that's on the piano because it's how they voice their chorus, how they're approaching, how they're playing it, et cetera.

So these are.

Even though we have keys, they look the same.

Same group of two black keys.

Two group of three black keys.

You know, it looks the same.

They are two completely different instruments and they have two completely different ways that you need to approach them.

So absolutely, we're definitely going to be talking about that.

Nice.

I'm excited about that.

I know we got to run ask you guys.

We have a follow up on that.

I want to mention, I just want to mention one other thing.

If there's any other thing that you guys have in terms of that you'd like to see.

We are open for suggestions.

You know, we're, we're adding things, you know, you know, and KV Kind of has a list of things that he wants to cover.

But, you know, at the end of the day, we do want to hear what you guys want to know.

If it's something that is not currently in there, you know, we consider adding that.

So, you know, anything that, any suggestions you guys have or, or if your audience has that, you know, you would love to see, and it's like a.

Something that a lot of people want to see, we consider adding that to.

All right, I'll definitely keep that in mind.

You guys stay.

You guys stay ahead of the game, so.

Absolutely.

I feel like everything that anyone out there is thinking, you're already having conversations about two years ago and trying to figure out how to implement it.

So.

But yeah, we'll definitely, definitely keep on top of that.

And I just want to.

Just want to make one point because your online community is probably, you know, it's.

So you have a tight, beautifully knit community that you fostered for years now, and look what spawned as a result of you really honing in on something that you didn't need to do.

But it's a great added feature that I know everybody that joins is grateful for.

And now you've, you know, you've literally created a new extension of your online presence through, you know, this organ teaching, which is phenomenal.

Did you ever once envision that that would come from the online community?

And as a result, have you now kind of had to rethink, think the way you're going about future ideas?

That's a great question, man.

I mean, you're right, you know, the online community, that is where it's at.

I mean, that's where it's at.

I mean, I exist to serve the online community.

And so, you know, because of that, you know, we try to make their needs the focus of what I'm doing.

You know, I mean, it's basic marketing too, right?

Because it's just kind of like what are their needs and what's going to.

What can we offer that are going to.

That's going to serve them.

Yeah.

And so for that reason, I've had to.

I try to live in a principled sort of, you know, I get all the emails.

Sean, can you, can you, you know, can you have this spot?

Can you sponsor this?

Sponsor?

I've been sponsored emails for the last five years.

My emails blown up with sponsor emails.

I Haven't yet.

Because I say to myself, if it's not something that I personally would use, because when you have a community like this, in the strength that community, they trust you.

You know, people know that, they listen to you.

Yeah.

And so if, if there's something that I don't, if I'm not fully sold in, something I'm not going to mention.

But this just goes to the part of what you're saying in terms of, you know, the online community, because we have, remember our, our monthly membership, paid membership is, is a part of the larger community.

It's not different communities.

Right, right, right.

So my YouTube, you know, my YouTube, we have a hundred thousand off of there.

We have over 70, 000 people in our Instagram community and then we have a thousand in our website community.

But they are all part of a giant community.

It's.

I see it as one thing.

I don't see it as, oh, these people, these people.

I see it as one thing, you know, and it's just that the people who have paid me, they want more access, right.

They want more of Sean, whatever we're offering, whatever that means.

But to me, it's all the, you know, in terms of your question, you know, it just kind of depends on what people are asking for.

I don't know, like in terms of other future things right now, just kind of really depends on what the community is asking for.

And, and the reason I mentioned that it's bigger than the website is because it could be a lot of people on Instagram who are all of a sudden asking, there he goes, he's preach.

Yeah, preacher, Amen.

Every time you preach, it could be, it could be where they are asking for something and then we, we, we get that in, you know, so it really depends, you know, it really what people are asking for.

Yeah, got it, man.

One day I'm going to have a camera crew follow me around just like you, Sean.