Synopsis:

Becky Grappo is an educational consultant. She works with families throughout the United States and around the world on planning their children's education. Her husband was a career foreign service officer for 27 years in the US Diplomatic Service. During that time and with three young children at home, she went back to school and got her graduate degree in education. She taught in several international schools before going back to the US and working in a US public school. Then she worked at the State department helping to guide foreign service families as they were planning the education for their children. Throughout her husband's career, they faced several unaccompanied tours.

In This Episode:

• What Becky does for work now
• A new baby (not what you think!) during an unaccompanied tour
• What couples need to have in place before being geographically separated
• You are not the only family living apart in your organisation. Is there any way of getting together? Can you ask your partner’s organisation for support as a group?

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:

• Monday Morning Emails - Book by Terry Anne Wilson & Jo Parfitt
• Standardized Regulations (DSSR) - Department of State

Contact Becky:

Email

Welcome to Holding the Fort Abroad, the podcast for expats with travelling partners. My name is Rhoda Bangerter, I am a certified coach and the author of the book Holding the Fort Abroad. In this podcast, I interview men and women who live abroad and have travelling partners so that we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience, I also invite relationship experts to apply their expertise to this topic. Today my guest is Becky Grappo. She contributed to Monday Morning Emails and that’s the first time I came across her. I am going to ask her to tell us more about herself in a minute She has lived geographically separated from her husband and I have asked her to share with us what it was like for her. Becky Welcome!

Oh, my pleasure. Thank you for asking.

Can you tell us a bit more about yourself and what you do now? Um, I think the audience will also be interested to hear about what you're doing now.

Well, professionally, people know me as an educational consultant, so I work with families throughout the United States and around the world on planning their children's education. And I especially I think I have a soft spot for expats because there are so many bumps in the road that few people understand if they haven't been through the life themselves. Mm-hmm. . So that includes everything from boarding schools to finding the right programs that kids are struggling with, mental health challenges, to planning their university educations. So that's what I do now, but that's my public face. But what a lot of people don't know about me is that my background is in the foreign service. So my husband was a career foreign service officer for 27 years in the US Diplomatic Service. I became an educator during that time. I went back to school when we had three young children at home and got my graduate degree in education.

And when we went overseas in the early nineties, I started teaching and I worked in several international schools before going back to the US and also working in a US public school. And from there I went to work at the State department helping to guide foreign service families as they were planning the education for their children. Now, on an even more personal note, we have three of our own children who grew up in the foreign service. And throughout my husband's career, we faced several unaccompanied tours. So that means that my husband went overseas and the family stayed behind. So the first time was when he went to Saudi Arabia for two years. And then after that we went to Oman where he was the US Ambassador. And then after that he was asked to go to Iraq. And that was another one year unaccompanied tour.

And by then I was at a different stage in my own life. I, uh, the three children were either out of college or still in college as in university in the US. I was without children and ended up in yet another foreign country where I stayed while he did the one year abroad. And I used that year to really spend all of my time really almost, uh, 24/7 building and developing my own business as an educational consultant. By then, I had been in practice for four years. And so I was able to devote myself just to work that became my new baby. But that's a whole other dimension of being alone while your husband is away. So anyway, he has retired and we now live in Denver, Colorado. He left the foreign service 10 years ago. This is the longest we have ever been anywhere.

I just found out that there's such a thing: a driver's license expiring. I didn't even know that my driver's license had expired, cuz I didn't know that was the thing. Cause I'd never been anywhere 10 years. So anyway, that was an interesting experience on my birthday this year. So here we are. And that kind of, that's a little bit of my professional side, my personal side, how it all came together. And I think probably what makes me effective in my profession now is the fact that I have lived this experience too. So I not only have the professional credentials to do it, but I also have the personal experience of having gone through expat life, raising children, unaccompanied tours, hardship, danger, amazing highs, and some pretty bumpy lows, . So anyway, here we are.

Wow. Well that's why when we connected a while ago, I was like, Oh man, you told me a little bit of this. I was like, Oh my word. We have to hear more. Um, so people can be, So you work with families, right? So families reach out to you? Correct. And you will help them before move, During a move, after a move, How do you normally Oh,

Sometimes, you know, sometimes all of the above. Mm-hmm. , like, it depends. Sometimes I have relationships with families over a period of several years. And so I knew them in post A, I knew them in post B I know know then in post C. And you know, we just have had this long term relationship where I've seen the family and seen the kids and seen the transitions. And when they're clients, a lot of times I'm talking to kids about, you know, what's the move been like for you? Let's just talk about that. Like, I don't even wanna talk about university applications and where do you wanna go and what do you wanna be yet? I really wanna know, tell me what it was like on your first day of school. What was that like? Who are your new friends? Tell me about your teachers. Tell me about your new friend group and activities, and did you have anybody to eat lunch with on the first day? And that to me is a really important part of getting to know a student because I know that their transition from continent A to continent B in the middle of high school was a really big deal.

Yeah. So what's the process? Um, I wanna delve into this a little bit more so that listeners can understand how they can maybe what they can ask for in terms of help or in terms of guidance. How does the process work in terms of what you offer packages? Do you offer like sessions? Uh, is it more coaching?

Most of the time? Yeah. Most of the time I'm working with the family and, you know, the contract between us is about either boarding, school placement, or about college advising. College meaning university, I use that term interchangeably in the us. Um, or they get to a place and things are not working out. So I'm thinking about one student that I have that moved during the pandemic and really has struggled with depression and anxiety and stopped going to school. And so talking with the family about what are the options that you have in this situation and working with them long term. I mean, I could have a solution in an hour, but that doesn't mean the family is ready to accept the solution. Um, it's gonna take a couple months for this to play out before they're really ready mm-hmm. . But in the meantime, we've engaged into a contractual relationship where we're talking, we're sharing, I'm sharing resources, I'm introducing them to people.

So it, it just, it's so broad. It's hard to describe in a really quick soundbite. Yeah. Because we have just worked with so many different kinds of families and different kinds of situations really from around the world through wars and evacuations and pandemics and hardships and international moves and relocations and unaccompanied tours and just the whole gamut. I mean, that's, there's nothing I'll tell a family when they start to tell me, you know, I'll start every call when we're just doing an inquiry. I'll say, Tell me your story. Mm. And so I think sometimes families are so used to giving just a very short version, but I'm always asking, No, I really wanna know. Tell me more. Tell me more about your story, because I get it. And don't worry, there's nothing you can say that's gonna shock me. Nothing.

So, but then you know what you're building on. Right. Then you know what the, uh, what the story is, what the background is, and then what's gonna be the most helpful going forward. Right.

Exactly. Exactly. So it, I've been doing this now 20 years. So the first four years I did it as an employee of the State Department where I was salaried and I worked with foreign service families calling me. And the only problem I had there was just managing the workflow because it was, you know, I loved that job, but in private practice. And I would say that our practice is rather unique among those of, in the world of educational consulting, because we do work with such a wide variety of students and different puzzles. These are puzzles. And a lot of times parents need to know that they can speak to somebody who really understands empathizes, but also has professional advice based on years of experience and expertise to be able to guide them to think clearly.

Yeah,

Let's take this problem apart and think clearly about how we're going to approach it.

Yeah. it's amazed sometimes, isn't it, when you've changed countries and it's like these different blocks and then you kind of get stuck where you don't know how to then go forward to the next block and how it's gonna fit with the rest and how it's gonna fit with the future. And so I think that's why I, I wanted to spend a little time on this because it's so important and what you offer right, is for, for families even in terms of those who, I suppose you don't even need to be stuck, but sometimes when you're thinking ahead and you think, just think and not quite sure how this is gonna pan out. Um, so talk

To us before you get stuck.

Yeah. Right. ,

Ask the right questions so that you don't blunder and make a huge mistake. Yeah. And then say, Oh, I just never thought of that question. Yeah.

Yeah.

It's kinda like, you know, we just did some renovations on our home and I hired a professional team to help me, even though I winced at spending more money on that mm-hmm. , Oh my gosh. I would've made so many mistakes. Yeah. Had I not been relying on professionals who knew what questions to ask that I'd had no idea.

It saved you headaches, Right. Saved you headache.

It saved us time. Many in headaches in the end. Yeah. Because they knew what we didn't know. Cuz they've been down this road a million times before. Yeah. Yeah. So I kinda use that analogy when it comes to working. I mean, actually my, my credential is um, I have a master's in education, but I'm a certified educational planner. And so that means that, you know, it's, we have a self-governing body in order to raise the professional standard amongst ourselves because we want to have the highest professional standards possible. And so as a certified educational planner, I'm trying to help parents think of the end goal and then we'll work backwards.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so is it mostly for kids following a US curriculum or the kids going to the US Or it could be any

Curriculum? No, anything anywhere. I mean, if it's beyond my comfort level. Yeah. I'll refer to somebody that I think might serve them better. Mm-hmm. . Um, but, you know, it could be Europe, it could be other parts of the world. It could be talking about the international school and mm-hmm. , is that international school the right place for your child? Um, I'm about to talk to a parent who is, you know, the initial inquiry was my son is struggling in high school and we're thinking about alternatives. And so before she jumps on a plane and starts flying around to just look at schools, I'm really glad that she called me. It was a referral from another family that we worked with because I wanna ask her a lot of questions about why is he struggling in school. So let's make sure that your search is focused and not just chaotic and haphazard. And you're gonna spend a lot of time and money. And if you don't know what you don't know, this could be a total waste of

Time. Yeah. So For sure, for sure. Yeah. And, and, and you know, you, you as a parent who doesn't have experience in this, potentially you, you're going in, you're learning from scratch. Whereas you could ask someone who's been working in it for ages and who knows all the nuances, who can go straight to what you need and, and, and you know, it's, Yeah. I, I totally . I get it. Um, yeah. So, uh, coming back to unaccompanied tours. So you've experienced them at pretty much every stage, you've experienced it with little kids, you've experienced it with older kids, you've experienced it as an empty nester. Um, yeah. What was it like?

Yeah, well I would say that I can speak about my personal experience mm-hmm. . And then I can also say that because I've been working in this realm for 20 years mm-hmm. , I also have worked with a lot of other families going through the unaccompanied tour experience as well. So not just my own, but also their experiences have informed the way I look at it. So when the kids were little, they lived with us and we were overseas and that was, that's when I think expat life was really, really fun. Um, because I loved being overseas and as long as all of us were together, you know, it was, life was great. It started to get more complicated when they were teenagers and one went to boarding school cuz the school where we were was not meeting her needs. So that was another, you know, difficult experience we had to go through to make the decision.

Not once she was there but making the decision. And then the next unaccompanied tour, we were back in Washington. I had one in college, one a senior in high school, No, junior in high school. And the other one was a 10th, 11th grader in high school. And I was working full time in Washington, so I had a commute mm-hmm. . So that was really challenging because, you know, it was just me. I mean, obviously my husband tried to check in when he could, but we also did not have all the WhatsApp messaging and it was more difficult to communicate. And um, you know, he had his hands full because he was in a very dangerous situation. And I had my hands full because I was with two teenagers and a college kid and a full-time job.

So that was a challenge. Yep. the next time we did it by then two were in college, one was out of college. And that was a unique experience because the state department actually reassigned us to another, you know, we went to Dubai. So he was actually assigned in Dubai, but he was then sent temporary tour of duty to Iraq from there. And I was on orders there. And that was a weird situation too because there I was, I wasn't really fully a member of the community. I didn't have children with me. I wasn't employed at the embassy. So in a way sometimes I kind of looked around and thought, what am I doing here? in this foreign country all by myself. I will also say that, you know, we all have times when we're going up and down. Um, it was also an amazing experience for me to be on my own and to be an expat in a foreign country and to be able to have a passion project, which was to build my business.

And I was able to work with a lot of schools. I did a lot of public speaking. I wrote and published for local parenting magazines. I had students that I worked with and families that I worked with. I had a great group of international friends. And I, for the first time in my whole adult life, got to call the shots the way I wanted to. So it was actually not bad. It wasn't a bad year. Um, but it was full of challenges for sure. Mm-hmm. , you know, I think the time I broke down to cry was when I couldn't figure out how to put together something for Ikea .

I was like, and you're like, Oh, I don't have anyone to ask for help.

I don't have, Yeah. I'm on my own .

So did you know you were gonna end up doing, Oh, do the passion project or did it come out of the fact that you were like, Okay, I have this time, what am I gonna do with it? Or did you already know this

You had to do? Yeah, no, I had already started. So when I left the state Department, when we went back overseas mm-hmm. and my husband was appointed ambassador, I knew that I couldn't go back and teach in the school where I had been before. I just, you know, it would just not be appropriate. Mm-hmm. . And also I also knew that I really wasn't supposed to work in that country. And so I kind of had to, it, it was difficult , but I did inform the State department about what I was doing. Yeah. Yeah. I did that because I had worked in the office where we had family member employment people and I knew what the rules were and so therefore I declared what I was doing and told them what I was doing. And then they did try to throw up some barriers and I walked into the office of the legal advisor on a trip to Washington and went to her office cuz I knew who she was from my previous work mm-hmm.

. And I said, Come on, we have to work this out. And she was like, Well, there's all these things we have to think about. And I was like, Oh, please do not make me an example of teleworking in the 21st century. Like I'm just little old me working with some students. Like this is no big deal. Yeah. And in the end I got the permission that I needed and the state department was informed, so I was not breaking any ethics rules. Um, and I was not using the residents in any inappropriate way. I mean, that was very important to lay down the the foundation that I was doing everything ethically and above board and not breaking any rules and not using the residents or US government resources in any way that was inappropriate. So I am pleased that I did it the right way. Mm.

Yeah. And that, that can be a hurdle sometimes.

So just, yeah, it

Was as an accompanying spouse sometimes, uh, but then it's about figuring out what's gonna work, what are the limits, what's gonna be accepted, kind of work it out. And I suppose this is a great sort of encouragement to say, just, just keep trying, figure it out. Go see them if you need to and uh, and figure out what's gonna work to make it work so that you can do it.

And my husband was really supportive too. Yeah. So there were some nights, so for example, I did an online cert certificate program through ucla and that meant that sometimes I had classes, assignments things that I had to do, live meetings I had to participate in. And I couldn't go to a reception or an event and mm-hmm. and people would say, Oh, you know, where's your, where's your wife? And he would say, She's working tonight. And you know, he was really, really supportive. And I really credit him with that because had he given me a hard time about doing my own thing and not having my in independence, it would've been a hundred times more difficult and create tension between us. And the other thing I think is really important, it was important for me to maintain my own identity. So, you know, one of the conversations I had with one of the attorney when I went to Washington is that she made a comment that really got my backup .

She said, It must be nice to be the wife of the American ambassador. And I kind of leaned in on our desk and I was like, Look, you work in Washington. I worked in Washington, you have an identity, I had an identity. How would you like to go to a dinner and have your name erased and your new identity was the wife of so and so and so and so, and your name is not there and people only saw you as the wife of, would you like that? And she kind of backed off a little bit, but I do think that it, I was just listening to the biography the audiobook of Michelle Obama and she was talking about going to the White House and having her identity wiped out and trying to recreate her own identity is the wife of, and you know, afraid of making a misstep, wanting to represent Well. And although what I was doing is on a, you know, micro scale compared to the first lady in the United States on a micro scale, I also felt that of it was important to be able to keep my identity, my sense of self and not only be known as the, you know, the wife of and and hostess with the mostess. Yes. Although I enjoyed that part too.

. Yes, yes, yes. Totally. Totally. Um, and I think I've spoken to a lot of wives who, uh, when when their partners are away, uh, they feel like, Oh, I didn't have time to do my own thing because you don't, like you said, you have your hands full if you've got three kids and you, you working. And but I think, I think being able to have that, well, if you're away, and even if you say you're not working, you've got kids, your partners away all the time, that's a lot on your plate. And but, but what, what I hear people say is like, they, it's so important to have some sort of passion project or some sort of project that, that you're working on for yourself, even if it's just a little bit of at a time with each baby step will lead to, you know, and will help you have your identity and will lead you to something that you're building for yourself really.

So, and I will say that for many of us who are in government service, the second income is important as well, especially in the United States when, you know, the price of a, the cost of a US university education is quite, it's high formidable. Yeah. It was no joke. I, you know, it wasn't just a hobby to keep myself occupied, it was a matter of contributing to the family because we at that point had a young adult launching into kids in college and we had tuition bills and we, you know, it was fortunately yes, a passion project that I really loved and I really loved my work. And it was also a matter of I need to continue to contribute to my family because the kids need certain things and they need support and we're not there and there are certain things that we will have to pay for because we're not physically present.

And so it became a really important thing to also have the additional income to be able to support three kids. So yeah. And that's the argument that I would make with foreign ministries or corporations that, you know, yes, if you're paying a senior level executive, you know, a fabulous salary where you don't need a second income, that's great. And, and the spouse can also continue to maintain their identity and find something that they really love to do. But for many people, this is the reality of the economics of many developed countries where the pr the cost of living is extremely expensive. I would say this is true throughout Europe, Canada, Australia, the us And I don't wanna leave any countries out , but, you know, so anyway, I just think that we need to reframe this for policy makers that we're not just keeping the spouse happy, the family needs this income as well.

That is a very good point. Very good point. Yes. Now, I know that you've worked on various guidelines and things for families that are in split location, geographically separated. Is there anything that you can share with us in terms of what you feel is helpful and from what you experience and from families you've worked with, what you've seen? Anything that's really, really helpful or important for families to know?

Uh, well that's a, that's a broad question, so I'll try to take apart,

Take it wherever you wanna take it.

Yeah. . Yeah. So first of all, I think the sending organization, whether it be a foreign ministry, the department of state, a business needs to understand what the family is going through. If a family member is away on assignment, unaccompanied tour, whatever you wanna call it. So first of all, putting some allowances in place so that the finances are less of a stress on the family. For example, in the State Department families have the option of the spouse staying at post while the employee is on an unaccompanied tour. And what that enables the spouse to do is have continuity for the spouse and for if there are children in the family for the children as well, so that there's one less disruption of a move, new school, new friends adjustment, et cetera, et cetera. So that's one thing that I think is really important.

So minimize, potentially minimize disruption as much as possible.

Exactly. Exactly. Um, another thing that I think parents or organizations can put into place is an office where families can turn to get answers to their questions regarding regulations and allowances and finances. Who do you turn to when you have a question and are they gonna throw a roadblock saying, Well, I'm sorry you're not the employee so you're, we can't talk to you. So you really need to have that in place. I would also tell families that they need to have in place legal agreements. Mm-hmm. power of attorney and to make sure that they cover all their bases so that that power of attorney applies in all the situations that are going to be needed so that they can access their personal finances, get a loan, access their personal household goods in storage without the employee. And as we learned in Iran, how many years ago when we had the Iran hostage crisis, what happens if you're not able to communicate with your spouse for a very long time and you still need to be able to keep life moving along.

So I think it's really important to have an office within the organization that deals with these financial and legal matters, to be able to guide families so that they know what to do. And I'll tell you one situation that made me live it, and that was that we, but prior to my husband leaving for Saudi Arabia, again, I knew about this because I worked in the office that at that time it was called the family Liaison Office. Today it's called the Global Liaison Office. Anyway, we got the power of attorney form and we went down to the credit union in the basement of the State Department to get it notarized so that when he went overseas, I would have power of attorney to be able to take care of any family business that we needed.

A few months later, I went to get a car for one of the kids. I found out that, you know, really the youngest teenager at home with me working in Washington and she being in the Virginia suburbs, she needed her own car to be able to get where she needed to go. Cuz I couldn't be one fam one person everywhere, all you know, at once she needed to have a car. So I went to the credit union to get a loan and I showed them the power of attorney and they said, Oh, that's not our power of attorney. We have a separate form. And what made me angry is I said, we were here telling you what we were doing and why we were doing it. And nobody said, Make sure you sign our form too. I went to the president of the credit union and complained.

I was like, You need to have guidance for banking because almost all State Department employees have an account and there is no guidance for how to do banking when one family member is away. So I went to another bank that didn't give me that hassle and I got my loan and I went back to the credit union and I said, Just so you know, you missed out on a loan because you made it, you threw up barriers and you didn't have your own messaging coordinated within your, within your credit union to tell us that we would need another form signed. Stupid things like this. These are just stupid details that can make your life go nuts. . Yes,

Yes. Completely. And so you had a, a general power of attorney, something from your husband saying, Okay, I'm give power of attorney for any decisions to this so and so,

You know, I think so. I don't remember exactly what form

We

Had at the time, but yeah, it was, you know, power of attorney, you can put an expiration date on it if you want. You could leave it open ended, but you know, to be able to make financial transactions, buy or sell the house, buy or sell cars, get a loan, whatever it is, you know, you need to make sure that this spouse who is not going into the danger zone is able to continue to conduct family business.

Yes, yes, yes. Completely. Um, , do you think that finances, uh, you mentioned a couple of times that organizations need to sort of be careful, would sort of help with understanding finances or, you know put things in place in terms of finances. Do you think that for families that live this way, finances are, things are more expensive or like it ends up being a more expensive lifestyle?

It just depends. I just, I think it, everybody's situation is going to be different. It depends on whether you have one person employed or two people employed or where they're living. Um,

But in terms of

Place where it's a lower cost of living, it just depends. Every sit family situation is going to be really different.

Yeah. But in terms of allowances or anything, what can an organization do? Like maybe give more more, uh, trips back home to see family?

One thing I will say, I, I think the State Department did do well, is that they have first of all separate maintenance allowance so that if a family member chooses to to wait out that period in another place. So maybe go home, wherever their home is and if it's a, an approved place to go, a safe place to go mm-hmm. that there are going to be, there is an allowance that follows you for separate maintenance. And I think it varies according to the cost of living in the area where you're going. It also can have an impact on educational allowances. So let's say for example, in this, again, this is all state department related, but you're overseas, you have a child in boarding school and if you move back to the United States, you're gonna lose the boarding school allowance. So while your family member is on an unaccompanied tour, it might be better to stay in place or, you know, not go back to the country where your child is in boarding school.

I mean, that's a whole other conversation that gets in the weeds about how the State department Yeah, yeah. That's that alone. But it's something we're thinking about for various services. I think like, will you continue to have schooling allowances paid for? Will your child be able to stay in school? You need to be informed before you make these decisions. Like mm-hmm. , don't just accept the assignment, go running off without thinking through where is the family gonna be? What's gonna happen with our kids? Are we prepared financially? Have we, are we prepared legally? Have we done all the steps that we need to do to make sure that of all the things that we have to work some of these things that we forgot to take care of?

Yes. Yes. Completely. Um, it, it, I suppose it, it, it boils down to the, to asking yourself, like, my partner is considered overseas

If I gonna go, if I go back to our home country, am I gonna be considered home or am we going be considered overseas? And presumably if you stay in another country, then you could be considered overseas as well. Cause it doesn't make sense if you go home and then your employer considers you like home and then, but your partner's overseas and living overseas, it doesn't quite make sense. Right. I think

Unless there's a separate maintenance

Allowance it's considering, it's worth considering thinking, am I better off staying? Where can I stay where I am? And my partner goes to whatever country and then I can stay.

And I think it's important also when we have foreign born partners, spouses I'm gonna use the word spouse. Yeah.

Because,

You know, they're the ones who are on the orders and unless things have changed, and I don't know about it, but you know, the other person who's on the orders.

Yeah.

And I would assume this is the same in the private sector, and that is a lot of the spouses were not American. So why would they go back to the United States when that's a foreign country as well? Yes. Maybe it would be much more comfortable for them to go home to Mexico or Korea or wherever their family support system is. Um, can we make that work? Yeah. Now what if the family were from a country that was also in crisis, does it make sense for the state department or sending organization to pay to relocate a family in another very conflict written Yeah. Um, post probably that doesn't make a lot of sense. That's not a good move. I mean, I saw a lot of things when I worked at State because not only was I in the office where, you know, we would come together for our staff meetings and the people and the other segments of my office were dealing with that on a regular basis. So I heard about these things in staff meetings, but I was on the phone helping families figure out the educational part

Of it. Yeah. Yeah.

Are the kids gonna go to school? How is that gonna work? Yeah. Um, there are allowances for reunification for, you know, trips home to be able to, And then that starts to get tricky when you have divorce and custody arrangements and where and how are you going to meet and how are those allowances going to work for that? So every organization is going to, well, I hope every organization has thought this through. What I will give credit to the State Department is that they did think it through, and it is in writing, its allowances, it's clear. Hopefully it's, I implemented fairly mm-hmm. and equally to people around the world, you know, in the best of circumstances. But what about organizations who haven't thought it through? And there are a lot of 'em and in private sector positions where they haven't thought this through. And that I think is where, you know, the employee, I guess is gonna have to advocate on behalf of their family saying, what's gonna happen while I'm away?

Yes. Yes. And I think it's interesting. I've been looking at HR magazines and all sorts and, and you know, they talk about duty of care for their employer and the family, and they're stuck on paying for international schools and taking care of the accompanying spouse. I'm like, what about all the follows that are living apart geographically? It's just seems crazy to me because in each organization there are, I think there are more employees than we, than we think that are actually either posted permanently abroad or are going for extended business periods. Uh, extended business travel maybe of a few months at a time or short postings of maybe six months, and then they come back. But these families are gonna go through things that a family that's together is not gonna go through.

Right.

And they need a specific, So I'm doing a masters, I've just started and I'm thinking of potentially looking at what that package needs to be for the private sector, looking at what's already provided by some organizations and then seeing and then advocating to, to to, to multinationals, to organizations saying, Listen, you need to update your packages because you're leaving some families behind.

A hundred percent. I will say that at the time that the State Department started to look at this more seriously, I would say was about 20 years ago. Um, because of the war in Iraq and the disruption that it cost. And I think that the stars aligned at the time, General Colin Powell was our Secretary of State and coming from the Army, he had a very strong sense of taking care of the troops. His management the secretary of Management was also an army general. I had the opportunity to have a one-on-one conversation with him at a swearing in ceremony that I attended for a friend of ours who was being sworn in as an ambassador. And he was kind of wandering around by himself. And he didn't know everybody in the room.

A swearing in ceremony is almost kind of like a wedding, you know, you know, everybody, you see all your friends and, you know, he was on the outer edges. And I used that as an opportunity. And I went up and introduced myself and we started talking and we started talking about unaccompanied tours. And he said, “we know we have a window to make things better for families”. And that is what I will credit Colin Powell's leadership with, is that, that they absolutely understood, take care of your troops, take care of your people. And so that's when there was a mandate. And I don't know what's happening in the department now. I have no comment. I am not close enough to it to make any kind of comment one way or the other. I can only talk about what I know. And what I know is that during that period of time in the early two thousands, there was a green light.

Let's do what we can to support our families. My husband went to Saudi Arabia in I think 2003 unaccompanied. And I was in the office that was the family support office. And there were all these disruptions happening around the world, including Saudi. And so, you know, it, it was something that directly impacted his mission. And I had part of the fallout from that because I was working with families on their kids and their education. So we were able to think through what are some of the major issues that families are facing right now. And he wrote a cable that became, I would say an important part of the architecture of the new allowances that the department created to support families. So I'm not giving us credit for all of that.

I'm just saying that we had a small part to play and that we were able to articulate what some of these pain points were. Mm-hmm. put them into a cable, it went to management. Management used that as they designed some of the new allowances. Mm. So I think, you know, the state department has really come a long way in trying to support family members. They understand. And the only reason I say that to you, knowing that most of the people who are listening to this probably aren't us diplomats mm-hmm. . But I say it because these documents are on the public record. You can look them up online, you can Google it, you can look for the DSSR, the Department of State Standardized Regulations or the Foreign Affairs Manual (https://aoprals.state.gov/content.asp?content_id=134&menu_id=75). It's on open source. And you can see what are some of the things that people are doing to support families in that organization.

And so for organizations that are starting from scratch and don't even know the right questions to ask, we'll look at somebody who's been thinking about this for over 20 years with a lot of offices and everybody, you know, the wheels of bureaucracy go very, very, very slowly mm-hmm. . Um, because you've gotta get all these offices and task forces and agencies and everybody to sign off before it is, you know, official. And that allows time for a process to take place, even though it's maddening. It also allows time for there to be input and give and take. So, you know take the shortcut look and see what other people have already worked on and see if there's anything there that can inform another organization.

Yes. And thank you for this call in a way for us to think bigger than ourselves and bigger than our family. And it's a call to think about the organization that we're a part of and that our, or that our partners a part of and thinking, Okay, my family is not the only family living this in this organization. How can we potentially band together? How can we potentially advocate for more support, more allowances, a different structure, changing the culture within the organization that we're part of so that families who are living this can have a structure, a support and a number to call, uh, be more, uh, sort of even aware of each other, I suppose. Um, even starting there, creating something within you, the organization that the partner’s a part of. I've, you know, there are so many professions that have this. as I've been looking into this topic, I've realized that there's so, so many professions where families live apart or for, you know, more or less short, long periods.

And that said, I think one of the most important things that we can do is find each other because it's you know, we didn't even talk about the social emotional toll of an unaccompanied tour and the feeling of loneliness because you know, the social dynamic changes with your friends, your available time. Because now there are more responsibilities on the part of the partner who's being left behind. Um, and who gets it and who supports that partner, who's also behind. I think, I'm sure that there are challenges for the person who's on the, on the unaccompanied tour, I will say they probably have the benefit of a group and a group dynamic that can be positive or negative. But the person that's left behind that everybody assumes is fine. Cuz you're, you know, you're in place is also going through a lot. And so I think for people to reach out and say, How are you?

They tried one time they were gonna get together a support group and have, you know, spouses come into Washington and have a support group. And I told the mental health worker at the time, I was like, I'm sorry, but I don't think that's a good idea because it's too hard to get here and park and arrange daycare and we're not gonna come and sit in a circle and talk about our feelings. But you know what I would really love, I would love for there to be somebody spearheading a group of unaccompanied partners to have a rest, explore restaurants or go to the theater or do something recreationally so that we find each other. And from that organically we can find our friends and our support group. That would really help a lot. Yes. Because people don't get it.

Yes, yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think people assume that you are, that you are okay. They, I don't know, they kind of think, oh, they're together even though they're not together. I don't know what goes through people's minds.

I think it just goes right over their head. I don't think anything goes through their minds. Yeah. I will tell you a quick story. While my husband was in Saudi Arabia, there was a terrorist attack on the consulate in Jedda. And my husband was very much involved in that even though he was not physically present. But I won't go into all the details, but it rattled us. And my daughter called me at four in the morning from college saying, Oh my God, oh my God, the consulate's under attack. How's dad? You know? And for the next however many hours that this attack played out, I mean, of course we were panicked about everybody mm-hmm. and, you know, our family member and there was no information and we just, you know, were kind of in the suspended animation. Nobody got it. Nobody called, nobody checked on us, nobody except my neighbors across the street who were army colonels. And they came over and said, We heard the news today, How are you? And that just meant everything to me because nobody else checked on us. Nobody else was even aware of what we had emotionally gone through that day.

Mm. Sometimes you have to have lived it to know what it's like. And so those are the, those are the people who were gonna be the ones who are gonna reach out because they understand.

Yeah.

Okay. Thank you so much for sharing with us today. And uh, people can reach you on your website, right?

Yeah. And I mean my email is rebecca@rnginternational.com so. Okay. I'm always happy to hear from people.

Wonderful. Thank you so much, Becky.

Okay. Thank you. It was a pleasure.