It's another episode with a special guest and this time Carrie-Ann is talking with Shameema Ali, Senior Communications and Engagement Manager at Chelsea and Westminster Hospital NHS Foundation Trust.

Shameema shares her thoughts and advice on diversity in the profession and why communications professionals should consider a career in public sector communications.

02:07 - being thrown in at the deep end

06:37 - dealing with imposter syndrome

08:29 - the role of leaders in our profession

13:07 - opportunities to develop in public sector comms

15:20 - using our diversity to our advantage

Thank you so much to Shameema for sharing and being part of the discussion about our profession, diversity and opportunities.

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You can find out more about Carrie-Ann and Cat's Pajamas Communications at www.cats-pajamas.co.uk

Welcome to Behind the Bob Diary, of a Comms

Director with me, Carrie-Ann Wade.

This podcast is all about developing communications leaders of the

future and supporting you to grow and thrive in your comms career.

You'll hear from me about my experiences and insights, and there might even

be a special guest or two popping up.

So I hope you enjoy.

Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of Behind the Bob.

I'm sure you will be as pleased as me to hear that it's one of those

episodes where we have a special guest.

They're definitely my favorite when I get to have a conversation with

some amazing communicators and In this episode, I'm speaking to the

fabulous Shameema who I met maybe a year or so ago, perhaps a bit longer.

Shameema's nodding her head, so that sounds about right.

Through the Thrive Programme and I've been so impressed by your work,

Shameema, in the comm space that I wanted to invite you onto the podcast.

So thank you so much for joining.

Did you want to say hello and introduce yourself, Shameema

thank you so much for having me and for the kind words.

Hello everybody.

My name is Shameema.

I'm a senior comms and engagement manager at Chelsea

Westminster NHS Foundation Trust.

Like Carrie-Ann said, I met her about a year ago and she's

changed my life for the better.

So that was just a nice, polite nod to Carrie-Ann

so yeah, so I've been working at Chelsea for the last year

and a half, almost two years.

And before that, I worked at a mental health trust as a communications officer.

And prior to working in the NHS, I did a little bit of work in

the private sector, in both legal editorial and B2B publishing.

Firstly, thank you so much for the kind words.

I feel like I might cry a little bit.

Thank you.

That's very kind.

And thank you for sharing a little bit about your background and

what you're doing at the moment.

As you will know, if you've listened to any of These other episodes of the

podcast, we like to find out a little bit about people's careers and you've

given us a taster about what you've what you've done in your career so far.

But would you like to tell us a little bit more about your career as

a communications professional to date?

So I actually, I came into communications in around

2019, and it was baptism by fire.

I joined, I think, about two months before COVID hit.

So I was working in NHS comms.

It was all very lovely, sunshine and rainbows before COVID.

And then COVID hit, and I was thrown into the deep end.

And honestly, I've not looked back.

I worked in mental health for two years, helping support

with the COVID vaccine rollout.

Then I moved over to Chelsea and I've been helping support on various

comms, both internal and external, and I've loved every single second of it.

Aw, it's so good to know that you've loved it so far,

despite it being at probably one of the most challenging times the

NHS has faced ever in its history.

So that absolutely was a baptism of fire for you, I'm sure.

I'm intrigued to know, because you mentioned other areas that you've worked

in prior to the NHS, and you've talked a little bit about the various things that

you've done to date in your NHS comms career, but what was it that attracted you

to work in public sector communications?

Yeah, so as cliche as it sounds before I worked in the NHS

I did have really interesting jobs.

They were, they were good jobs.

I was good at it.

I was earning a decent salary, but I never felt like I was gaining

any sort of fulfillment from it.

And for me, fulfillment leads to joy.

I've always wanted to do something that has bigger ramifications,

something that has lasting impact.

I'm very much a people person and I find real joy in working with

people from all walks of life.

The public sector offered me just that.

I'm fortunate enough to work with colleagues from all over the world and

I get to support them and the public in a role that I'm truly passionate about.

So that's probably what's drawn me into this sort of.

I love that, and it seems evident from both what I know of

you prior to you coming on this podcast, but also from the conversations I've

had with other communicators that desire to have an impact and do good and make

positives, help people to make positive change feels like something that is a big

attraction to people working in the NHS.

So it's interesting that you say that in terms of your innate.

NHS role.

I'm intrigued to know whether for you, you feel like there's been

anything that's been a barrier to your career to date in communications or

more broadly in the public sector?

So before I joined public sector comms, I had very little knowledge

about it and the lack of diversity and lack of diversity within it.

So I think that was a bit of a blessing in disguise for me.

Personally, I have a bit of a tendency to get into my own head with things,

and I can often be quite negative about my own skills and my own abilities.

And I think if I knew how little diversity was in public sector comms

before I joined, it would really made me question if I belong or if this

was a suitable career path for me.

I've been really fortunate enough to be surrounded by really great

encouraging comms leaders throughout my career who really guided me and

have sourced To get the best out of me.

So I'm sure this isn't the answer that you were hoping for, but apart from

my own self doubt, I think I've been really fortunate enough to not come

across many barriers in my career so

no, do you know what?

It's funny, isn't it?

That we assume that there might be certain ways that people

will answer that question.

But it's absolutely lovely to hear that you've had supportive leadership

and you've been nurtured and supported to develop in your role.

And I think that's a real positive to take away from that conversation.

But it's also interesting to me that you mentioned self doubt because it's

something, again, that many of the communicators, either that I work

with or that have been on the podcast so far, have all said in written.

Sponsoring one way or another to that question, I think a couple of people

I've interviewed have said, labeled it imposter syndrome, and I know people

have views about what imposter syndrome is, but it feels like that's to do with

that kind of confidence and self-belief.

So it, it's interesting that for you, that feels like something that,

that could be a potential barrier, but that you haven't let be one yet.

Yeah that's quite intriguing to hear and I wonder if it's Related to, to the type

of people we attract in our profession that we perhaps seem to doubt our own

selves sometimes and get in our own way.

Have you got any, have you got any thoughts about how you've managed

to get out of your own head?

I know you've said that not, maybe not being as versed in some of the

issues around the comms profession in public sector and diversity

probably was helpful for you.

But do you have any tips you can share with others about how you can manage some

of that self doubt when it creeps in?

Yeah, so imposter syndrome is definitely how I would describe myself.

I've got really bad imposter syndrome, and I'm really lucky that not only do I have a

really good, supportive network of peers, but I've also got a really supportive

family who often tell me, Snap out of it.

You're great at what you do.

And often I find if I'm in a, at a point in my, work working day where I'm

feeling like, I'm rubbish at what I'm doing or I'm not having a good day, or

I just feel like I'm useless, I find it really cathartic to write down all of the

things that I've achieved big and more.

So if I've organized a big event or if I've managed to, do a nice

story with the media or anything like that, writing it down.

Keeping that list because often you forget about all the work that you

do, and then having that as a list that you can refer back to when you're

feeling like I'm rubbish at my job or I don't do enough, whatever it is.

And it's a really nice way to keep track of all the things you do, but also to

just remember that you do a lot, and stop being so hard on yourself because

I have to find that I'm probably my biggest problem myself, and I think that's

really helpful to have that written down.

Yeah, we're all our own worst critics, aren't we?

I think that we get in our own way.

And I love that you have some practical things that you do to help you with that

and celebrating those achievements and successes, no matter how big or small

is a really important part of that.

And I'm sure that will be a useful tip, definitely for people who are

listening to this episode of the podcast.

You mentioned leadership in terms and support, not only from them,

Obviously, you've mentioned your family but in that work setting as well.

So you've shared with us a tip for managing imposter syndrome yourself,

but is there anything you think other people could do or how can we manage

some of those barriers that you've described facing in your career?

Is there anything you think we could do differently.

So I think, like you, you said, leadership, people in leadership

have a really important role to play in terms of who joins comms and,

who can develop and succeed in it.

And I think they have a really, they can make a really big difference in the outlet

that they play for someone looking to enter a career in public sector comms.

So I think.

Genuinely, to be kind and encouraging, you never know, you might be working

with a future leader and you just don't know, and if, kindness is the

best way forward, I say, and nurturing people and trying to get the best out

of them it's always worked for me.

I've only ever done well in my career when I've been surrounded by

people who are kind and nurturing build people up and support them.

Our differences make us who we are and it's our duty to reflect that in

our workforce, so that was probably be my words of wisdom to anyone

thinking about how they can help.

Brilliant.

Thank you so much.

And I hope it's not going to make you feel awkward if I say that you role model

all of those things yourself, I know.

In the way that you operate with the people that you work with and

the people that you manage, so it's lovely that you live the things

that you feel are important in terms of helping to nurture and develop.

people.

I think leaders also need to remember that we role model into our

teams and organizations, don't we?

So actually being really aware of how we're operating, I think in

that leadership space is important.

So we've talked a little bit about.

Barriers, and we are going to come onto a bit more conversation, I think

probably about diversity, but I'm keen particularly, as you said, you joined

the n h s just in time for COVID to hit.

And it feel like a very different sort of, of N H s, but what have

been some of the highlights of your public sector comms career so far?

Because we've talked about celebrating successes, so I'd love to know what

some of your highlights have been.

So I think the progression that I've made in comms

has probably been my career highlight.

In general I'm really lucky to have moved quite quickly within public sector comms.

I'm the communications lead for a hospital.

And if someone told me five years ago that's the position I would

be, I'd probably laugh at them.

Actually, I probably wouldn't laugh at them because that's quite mean, but

I would have thought it was a joke.

I wouldn't have thought in a million years I would be.

able or capable enough to take on such a big role, but also at the same time

thoroughly enjoy what I do every day.

And I think that's a real blessing.

A lot of people go into work and they just do it because they have to.

But I've really found true joy in what I do, but also doing

something that I'm passionate about.

So I think The position I'm in now is probably my career highlight and

being where I am now probably is and during this entire time that I've

been in public sector comms, I've been able to showcase and champion

all the incredible work that staff do.

And that's what I love the most being able to, showcase all of the

incredible work they do, because honestly sometimes it gets overlooked

and being that person that can sprinkle a bit of fairy dust on top of it.

I think it's really lovely.

And I don't think we should ever underestimate the role

that communicators play in educating, informing, advising and sharing, not

only the challenging things that have come through things like the pandemic,

but also that really good stuff about.

building that trust and getting people to understand what it is that our

colleagues in the NHS do every day that wouldn't happen without roles like ours.

So I think it's really great that you recognize that, but not only recognize it,

but it makes you happy and it's something that brings you joy in your role.

Why would you, because you've talked about joy and you've talked about some

of the challenges in your career, but why would you encourage communications

professionals to consider a career in the public sector over maybe any

other sector that they could choose?

Yeah.

I think comms in general, but specifically to public sector, if

you're a people person who enjoys variety in their work, someone who

loves to build people up, someone who enjoys telling an engaging story,

then public sector comms is for you.

It's really varied.

It's a rewarding career and it offers you the opportunity to support and

make a difference for the public.

both big and small, you can really make a difference in a person's life.

And I find that really incredibly rewarding.

And if you're the type of person that wants to do something that is rewarding,

then you should definitely go for it.

I love that.

Thank you.

And you mentioned a bit before about kind of leadership development and

support and I think there's sometimes a misconception that working in the public

sector you maybe don't get some of the career opportunities that you might get

in the private sector or you might not progress as quickly or get that kind

of level of development and support.

So what's your experience of that been like in terms of public sector comms?

I actually think it's been the opposite.

So because I've worked in the private sector and the public sector, I

find that the opportunities to develop and educate myself have

been immense since being in the NHS.

I'm, I think maybe that's down to having really good leadership or having a team

that's really supportive of professional growth, but nobody shies away from it.

If you want to do something, you ask.

There's no, oh, I don't know whether they'll laugh at me or whatever.

Ask the question and if they can do it for you, I've found in my

own experience that's worked.

I find that in the private sector, I've never really had any opportunities

to learn or train or develop.

It's just the nine to five job.

So yeah, I think it's actually probably been better in public than private.

Interesting.

And I was checking that out because having been in public sector comms myself for 18

years, I'm like, maybe I'm off the mark with my thinking that there's lots of

opportunities to develop, but it's nice to hear it from someone who is fresher into

their public sector comms career than me.

Thank you.

Sorry, I know that was a slight digression from what we've probably planned to talk

about, but I know your thoughts on that.

Are you a communications professional who would like to feel more

confident in your career choices?

Perhaps you'd like to be more intentional in the way you approach your work life?

Our Cats Pajamas Thrive Programme is a 12 week structured online

programme that supports communications professionals to grow and thrive.

It's a safe space for discussion, action and accountability, all with

the aim of helping you to thrive as a communicator and as a leader.

The next Thrive Programme starts on the 1st of September, and if you'd like to

find out more, or reserve your place on the program, visit the website, catch up

with us on the socials or drop us a line.

We talked a little bit earlier about diversity and you mentioned, belonging

and the fact that maybe you might have got inside your own head a bit

when you were applying for a job if you had realized perhaps that there

are issues with the kind of diversity and representation in our profession.

So I was wondering if you had any thoughts Shameema about what you think

we could do to encourage more diversity within the communications profession.

So the organization that I work in is extremely diverse in terms

of the patients that we serve, but also the full workforce that we cover.

And I think personally, this has been a huge advantage to me.

As an ethnic minority, I can offer a new insight into how people think,

what may be important to others, and also a person that patients and staff

may be more comfortable speaking to.

I think people from a diverse background need to maybe stop thinking about

why being different is a hindrance to them and flip it on its head and think

about why being different makes them special and use that to their advantage.

Our differences make us who we are and we can't change that.

So I think why dwell on the things that we can't change and create barriers for

ourself, but be positive and be true to yourself and own it and use that

to push you forward in your career.

I love that.

Thank you.

Shameema, if you knew somebody who was considering a career in public sector

communications and they were a bit on the fence, umming and ahhing whether to

go for it, what advice might you give them based on your experience to date?

Yeah.

So I would say be their true self.

Don't hold back.

Don't dwell on what other people can do.

You can only show your true self.

No one's gonna know who you are unless you showcase the best of yourself.

So I think put your best foot forward.

Think about what makes you great at what you do and just showcase that.

I think if you dwell on what other...

other people are doing.

That's your own hindrance.

You've got nothing to lose with applying for a job.

If you don't get a job, you don't get it, but I think go

for it and see what happens.

Because honestly, I went for a role in comms.

I had no real comms experience and someone took a chance on

me and I've not looked back.

And I'm really, I'm forever grateful for it.

Oh, I love that.

Thank you so much, Shameema.

And one of the questions I wanted to come back to and just talk a little

bit about was around those barriers.

And I know you said barriers for you have been things that you've put put

there and you've stopped yourself potentially from progressing because

of your own internal barriers.

But do you think there is anything that we could be doing that would help to

reduce barriers for others in terms of taking that step into our profession?

So I think on a personal level, someone who's questioning it,

I would say surround yourself with allies, people who want to support

you, build you up and help you develop.

I wouldn't want, I don't think you should dwell on others

and their career trajectory.

Everyone's different.

Work on yourself and your goals.

It's easy to get sucked into office politics and other things and

how other people are progressing.

And that can lead to a lot of negative self doubt, really negative mindset.

So do what you can to support yourself and enjoy the work that you do.

And that will help you shine.

I find the work that I enjoy the most is the best type of work I do.

And if there are areas of work that you don't enjoy, which everyone has

consider why that is, is it because, you don't feel confident enough

in it and address that head on.

So look for additional training that can help you.

But I think you need to be your own change.

I don't, I think, it's great to surround yourself with good people, but you need

to make that positive change yourself.

Oh, Shameema, that's such good advice for people

who are listening, for sure.

And there is something isn't there in there about, you have to really want it.

And I think I think I'm always really impressed by how much you invest in it.

in developing your own self and growing and developing as

a professional and as a leader.

And it's been an absolute privilege to see some of your journey so far.

And I know there'll be greater things to come in this space as well.

So you'll definitely want to watch Shameema.

Oh, thank you.

please do keep going with encouraging others to develop themselves

and challenge themselves as well, because I think that's really important

part of growing in the profession.

I've really appreciated you giving us some of your insight

and sharing your journey today.

Is there any Oh, thank you for coming.

You're so welcome.

And I'm sure we might be back interviewing you again in a few years time when you've

taken your next step in your career trajectory and we'll be asking, we'll be

asking for your advice for communicators who want to follow in your footsteps.

Thank you so much for sharing today and spending the time being part of this.

And good luck with whatever adventures lie ahead for you in your comms career

and thank you for all you do to support and encourage other communicators

to be their best selves because I think you do that really well.

So thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you for listening to this episode of Behind the Bob.

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You can find me on Instagram and on Twitter at @catspjs_uk.