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Behind the Bob - the one with Shameema Ali
Episode 616th August 2023 • Behind the Bob • Carrie-Ann Wade
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It's another episode with a special guest and this time Carrie-Ann is talking with Shameema Ali, Senior Communications and Engagement Manager at Chelsea and Westminster Hospital NHS Foundation Trust.

Shameema shares her thoughts and advice on diversity in the profession and why communications professionals should consider a career in public sector communications.

02:07 - being thrown in at the deep end

06:37 - dealing with imposter syndrome

08:29 - the role of leaders in our profession

13:07 - opportunities to develop in public sector comms

15:20 - using our diversity to our advantage

Thank you so much to Shameema for sharing and being part of the discussion about our profession, diversity and opportunities.

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New episodes of Behind the Bob are published every Wednesday and you can always subscribe via your favourite podcast platform to ensure you don't miss an episode.

You can find out more about Carrie-Ann and Cat's Pajamas Communications at www.cats-pajamas.co.uk

Transcripts

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Welcome to Behind the Bob Diary, of a Comms

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Director with me, Carrie-Ann Wade.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

This podcast is all about developing communications leaders of the

Carrie-Ann Wade:

future and supporting you to grow and thrive in your comms career.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

You'll hear from me about my experiences and insights, and there might even

Carrie-Ann Wade:

be a special guest or two popping up.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

So I hope you enjoy.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of Behind the Bob.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I'm sure you will be as pleased as me to hear that it's one of those

Carrie-Ann Wade:

episodes where we have a special guest.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

They're definitely my favorite when I get to have a conversation with

Carrie-Ann Wade:

some amazing communicators and In this episode, I'm speaking to the

Carrie-Ann Wade:

fabulous Shameema who I met maybe a year or so ago, perhaps a bit longer.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Shameema's nodding her head, so that sounds about right.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Through the Thrive Programme and I've been so impressed by your work,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Shameema, in the comm space that I wanted to invite you onto the podcast.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

So thank you so much for joining.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Did you want to say hello and introduce yourself, Shameema

Shameema Ali:

thank you so much for having me and for the kind words.

Shameema Ali:

Hello everybody.

Shameema Ali:

My name is Shameema.

Shameema Ali:

I'm a senior comms and engagement manager at Chelsea

Shameema Ali:

Westminster NHS Foundation Trust.

Shameema Ali:

Like Carrie-Ann said, I met her about a year ago and she's

Shameema Ali:

changed my life for the better.

Shameema Ali:

So that was just a nice, polite nod to Carrie-Ann

Shameema Ali:

so yeah, so I've been working at Chelsea for the last year

Shameema Ali:

and a half, almost two years.

Shameema Ali:

And before that, I worked at a mental health trust as a communications officer.

Shameema Ali:

And prior to working in the NHS, I did a little bit of work in

Shameema Ali:

the private sector, in both legal editorial and B2B publishing.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Firstly, thank you so much for the kind words.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I feel like I might cry a little bit.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Thank you.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

That's very kind.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

And thank you for sharing a little bit about your background and

Carrie-Ann Wade:

what you're doing at the moment.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

As you will know, if you've listened to any of These other episodes of the

Carrie-Ann Wade:

podcast, we like to find out a little bit about people's careers and you've

Carrie-Ann Wade:

given us a taster about what you've what you've done in your career so far.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

But would you like to tell us a little bit more about your career as

Carrie-Ann Wade:

a communications professional to date?

Shameema Ali:

So I actually, I came into communications in around

Shameema Ali:

2019, and it was baptism by fire.

Shameema Ali:

I joined, I think, about two months before COVID hit.

Shameema Ali:

So I was working in NHS comms.

Shameema Ali:

It was all very lovely, sunshine and rainbows before COVID.

Shameema Ali:

And then COVID hit, and I was thrown into the deep end.

Shameema Ali:

And honestly, I've not looked back.

Shameema Ali:

I worked in mental health for two years, helping support

Shameema Ali:

with the COVID vaccine rollout.

Shameema Ali:

Then I moved over to Chelsea and I've been helping support on various

Shameema Ali:

comms, both internal and external, and I've loved every single second of it.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Aw, it's so good to know that you've loved it so far,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

despite it being at probably one of the most challenging times the

Carrie-Ann Wade:

NHS has faced ever in its history.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

So that absolutely was a baptism of fire for you, I'm sure.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I'm intrigued to know, because you mentioned other areas that you've worked

Carrie-Ann Wade:

in prior to the NHS, and you've talked a little bit about the various things that

Carrie-Ann Wade:

you've done to date in your NHS comms career, but what was it that attracted you

Carrie-Ann Wade:

to work in public sector communications?

Shameema Ali:

Yeah, so as cliche as it sounds before I worked in the NHS

Shameema Ali:

I did have really interesting jobs.

Shameema Ali:

They were, they were good jobs.

Shameema Ali:

I was good at it.

Shameema Ali:

I was earning a decent salary, but I never felt like I was gaining

Shameema Ali:

any sort of fulfillment from it.

Shameema Ali:

And for me, fulfillment leads to joy.

Shameema Ali:

I've always wanted to do something that has bigger ramifications,

Shameema Ali:

something that has lasting impact.

Shameema Ali:

I'm very much a people person and I find real joy in working with

Shameema Ali:

people from all walks of life.

Shameema Ali:

The public sector offered me just that.

Shameema Ali:

I'm fortunate enough to work with colleagues from all over the world and

Shameema Ali:

I get to support them and the public in a role that I'm truly passionate about.

Shameema Ali:

So that's probably what's drawn me into this sort of.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I love that, and it seems evident from both what I know of

Carrie-Ann Wade:

you prior to you coming on this podcast, but also from the conversations I've

Carrie-Ann Wade:

had with other communicators that desire to have an impact and do good and make

Carrie-Ann Wade:

positives, help people to make positive change feels like something that is a big

Carrie-Ann Wade:

attraction to people working in the NHS.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

So it's interesting that you say that in terms of your innate.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

NHS role.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I'm intrigued to know whether for you, you feel like there's been

Carrie-Ann Wade:

anything that's been a barrier to your career to date in communications or

Carrie-Ann Wade:

more broadly in the public sector?

Shameema Ali:

So before I joined public sector comms, I had very little knowledge

Shameema Ali:

about it and the lack of diversity and lack of diversity within it.

Shameema Ali:

So I think that was a bit of a blessing in disguise for me.

Shameema Ali:

Personally, I have a bit of a tendency to get into my own head with things,

Shameema Ali:

and I can often be quite negative about my own skills and my own abilities.

Shameema Ali:

And I think if I knew how little diversity was in public sector comms

Shameema Ali:

before I joined, it would really made me question if I belong or if this

Shameema Ali:

was a suitable career path for me.

Shameema Ali:

I've been really fortunate enough to be surrounded by really great

Shameema Ali:

encouraging comms leaders throughout my career who really guided me and

Shameema Ali:

have sourced To get the best out of me.

Shameema Ali:

So I'm sure this isn't the answer that you were hoping for, but apart from

Shameema Ali:

my own self doubt, I think I've been really fortunate enough to not come

Shameema Ali:

across many barriers in my career so

Carrie-Ann Wade:

no, do you know what?

Carrie-Ann Wade:

It's funny, isn't it?

Carrie-Ann Wade:

That we assume that there might be certain ways that people

Carrie-Ann Wade:

will answer that question.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

But it's absolutely lovely to hear that you've had supportive leadership

Carrie-Ann Wade:

and you've been nurtured and supported to develop in your role.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

And I think that's a real positive to take away from that conversation.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

But it's also interesting to me that you mentioned self doubt because it's

Carrie-Ann Wade:

something, again, that many of the communicators, either that I work

Carrie-Ann Wade:

with or that have been on the podcast so far, have all said in written.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Sponsoring one way or another to that question, I think a couple of people

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I've interviewed have said, labeled it imposter syndrome, and I know people

Carrie-Ann Wade:

have views about what imposter syndrome is, but it feels like that's to do with

Carrie-Ann Wade:

that kind of confidence and self-belief.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

So it, it's interesting that for you, that feels like something that,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

that could be a potential barrier, but that you haven't let be one yet.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Yeah that's quite intriguing to hear and I wonder if it's Related to, to the type

Carrie-Ann Wade:

of people we attract in our profession that we perhaps seem to doubt our own

Carrie-Ann Wade:

selves sometimes and get in our own way.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Have you got any, have you got any thoughts about how you've managed

Carrie-Ann Wade:

to get out of your own head?

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I know you've said that not, maybe not being as versed in some of the

Carrie-Ann Wade:

issues around the comms profession in public sector and diversity

Carrie-Ann Wade:

probably was helpful for you.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

But do you have any tips you can share with others about how you can manage some

Carrie-Ann Wade:

of that self doubt when it creeps in?

Shameema Ali:

Yeah, so imposter syndrome is definitely how I would describe myself.

Shameema Ali:

I've got really bad imposter syndrome, and I'm really lucky that not only do I have a

Shameema Ali:

really good, supportive network of peers, but I've also got a really supportive

Shameema Ali:

family who often tell me, Snap out of it.

Shameema Ali:

You're great at what you do.

Shameema Ali:

And often I find if I'm in a, at a point in my, work working day where I'm

Shameema Ali:

feeling like, I'm rubbish at what I'm doing or I'm not having a good day, or

Shameema Ali:

I just feel like I'm useless, I find it really cathartic to write down all of the

Shameema Ali:

things that I've achieved big and more.

Shameema Ali:

So if I've organized a big event or if I've managed to, do a nice

Shameema Ali:

story with the media or anything like that, writing it down.

Shameema Ali:

Keeping that list because often you forget about all the work that you

Shameema Ali:

do, and then having that as a list that you can refer back to when you're

Shameema Ali:

feeling like I'm rubbish at my job or I don't do enough, whatever it is.

Shameema Ali:

And it's a really nice way to keep track of all the things you do, but also to

Shameema Ali:

just remember that you do a lot, and stop being so hard on yourself because

Shameema Ali:

I have to find that I'm probably my biggest problem myself, and I think that's

Shameema Ali:

really helpful to have that written down.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Yeah, we're all our own worst critics, aren't we?

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I think that we get in our own way.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

And I love that you have some practical things that you do to help you with that

Carrie-Ann Wade:

and celebrating those achievements and successes, no matter how big or small

Carrie-Ann Wade:

is a really important part of that.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

And I'm sure that will be a useful tip, definitely for people who are

Carrie-Ann Wade:

listening to this episode of the podcast.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

You mentioned leadership in terms and support, not only from them,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Obviously, you've mentioned your family but in that work setting as well.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

So you've shared with us a tip for managing imposter syndrome yourself,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

but is there anything you think other people could do or how can we manage

Carrie-Ann Wade:

some of those barriers that you've described facing in your career?

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Is there anything you think we could do differently.

Shameema Ali:

So I think, like you, you said, leadership, people in leadership

Shameema Ali:

have a really important role to play in terms of who joins comms and,

Shameema Ali:

who can develop and succeed in it.

Shameema Ali:

And I think they have a really, they can make a really big difference in the outlet

Shameema Ali:

that they play for someone looking to enter a career in public sector comms.

Shameema Ali:

So I think.

Shameema Ali:

Genuinely, to be kind and encouraging, you never know, you might be working

Shameema Ali:

with a future leader and you just don't know, and if, kindness is the

Shameema Ali:

best way forward, I say, and nurturing people and trying to get the best out

Shameema Ali:

of them it's always worked for me.

Shameema Ali:

I've only ever done well in my career when I've been surrounded by

Shameema Ali:

people who are kind and nurturing build people up and support them.

Shameema Ali:

Our differences make us who we are and it's our duty to reflect that in

Shameema Ali:

our workforce, so that was probably be my words of wisdom to anyone

Shameema Ali:

thinking about how they can help.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Brilliant.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Thank you so much.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

And I hope it's not going to make you feel awkward if I say that you role model

Carrie-Ann Wade:

all of those things yourself, I know.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

In the way that you operate with the people that you work with and

Carrie-Ann Wade:

the people that you manage, so it's lovely that you live the things

Carrie-Ann Wade:

that you feel are important in terms of helping to nurture and develop.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

people.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I think leaders also need to remember that we role model into our

Carrie-Ann Wade:

teams and organizations, don't we?

Carrie-Ann Wade:

So actually being really aware of how we're operating, I think in

Carrie-Ann Wade:

that leadership space is important.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

So we've talked a little bit about.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Barriers, and we are going to come onto a bit more conversation, I think

Carrie-Ann Wade:

probably about diversity, but I'm keen particularly, as you said, you joined

Carrie-Ann Wade:

the n h s just in time for COVID to hit.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

And it feel like a very different sort of, of N H s, but what have

Carrie-Ann Wade:

been some of the highlights of your public sector comms career so far?

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Because we've talked about celebrating successes, so I'd love to know what

Carrie-Ann Wade:

some of your highlights have been.

Shameema Ali:

So I think the progression that I've made in comms

Shameema Ali:

has probably been my career highlight.

Shameema Ali:

In general I'm really lucky to have moved quite quickly within public sector comms.

Shameema Ali:

I'm the communications lead for a hospital.

Shameema Ali:

And if someone told me five years ago that's the position I would

Shameema Ali:

be, I'd probably laugh at them.

Shameema Ali:

Actually, I probably wouldn't laugh at them because that's quite mean, but

Shameema Ali:

I would have thought it was a joke.

Shameema Ali:

I wouldn't have thought in a million years I would be.

Shameema Ali:

able or capable enough to take on such a big role, but also at the same time

Shameema Ali:

thoroughly enjoy what I do every day.

Shameema Ali:

And I think that's a real blessing.

Shameema Ali:

A lot of people go into work and they just do it because they have to.

Shameema Ali:

But I've really found true joy in what I do, but also doing

Shameema Ali:

something that I'm passionate about.

Shameema Ali:

So I think The position I'm in now is probably my career highlight and

Shameema Ali:

being where I am now probably is and during this entire time that I've

Shameema Ali:

been in public sector comms, I've been able to showcase and champion

Shameema Ali:

all the incredible work that staff do.

Shameema Ali:

And that's what I love the most being able to, showcase all of the

Shameema Ali:

incredible work they do, because honestly sometimes it gets overlooked

Shameema Ali:

and being that person that can sprinkle a bit of fairy dust on top of it.

Shameema Ali:

I think it's really lovely.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

And I don't think we should ever underestimate the role

Carrie-Ann Wade:

that communicators play in educating, informing, advising and sharing, not

Carrie-Ann Wade:

only the challenging things that have come through things like the pandemic,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

but also that really good stuff about.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

building that trust and getting people to understand what it is that our

Carrie-Ann Wade:

colleagues in the NHS do every day that wouldn't happen without roles like ours.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

So I think it's really great that you recognize that, but not only recognize it,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

but it makes you happy and it's something that brings you joy in your role.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Why would you, because you've talked about joy and you've talked about some

Carrie-Ann Wade:

of the challenges in your career, but why would you encourage communications

Carrie-Ann Wade:

professionals to consider a career in the public sector over maybe any

Carrie-Ann Wade:

other sector that they could choose?

Shameema Ali:

Yeah.

Shameema Ali:

I think comms in general, but specifically to public sector, if

Shameema Ali:

you're a people person who enjoys variety in their work, someone who

Shameema Ali:

loves to build people up, someone who enjoys telling an engaging story,

Shameema Ali:

then public sector comms is for you.

Shameema Ali:

It's really varied.

Shameema Ali:

It's a rewarding career and it offers you the opportunity to support and

Shameema Ali:

make a difference for the public.

Shameema Ali:

both big and small, you can really make a difference in a person's life.

Shameema Ali:

And I find that really incredibly rewarding.

Shameema Ali:

And if you're the type of person that wants to do something that is rewarding,

Shameema Ali:

then you should definitely go for it.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I love that.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Thank you.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

And you mentioned a bit before about kind of leadership development and

Carrie-Ann Wade:

support and I think there's sometimes a misconception that working in the public

Carrie-Ann Wade:

sector you maybe don't get some of the career opportunities that you might get

Carrie-Ann Wade:

in the private sector or you might not progress as quickly or get that kind

Carrie-Ann Wade:

of level of development and support.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

So what's your experience of that been like in terms of public sector comms?

Shameema Ali:

I actually think it's been the opposite.

Shameema Ali:

So because I've worked in the private sector and the public sector, I

Shameema Ali:

find that the opportunities to develop and educate myself have

Shameema Ali:

been immense since being in the NHS.

Shameema Ali:

I'm, I think maybe that's down to having really good leadership or having a team

Shameema Ali:

that's really supportive of professional growth, but nobody shies away from it.

Shameema Ali:

If you want to do something, you ask.

Shameema Ali:

There's no, oh, I don't know whether they'll laugh at me or whatever.

Shameema Ali:

Ask the question and if they can do it for you, I've found in my

Shameema Ali:

own experience that's worked.

Shameema Ali:

I find that in the private sector, I've never really had any opportunities

Shameema Ali:

to learn or train or develop.

Shameema Ali:

It's just the nine to five job.

Shameema Ali:

So yeah, I think it's actually probably been better in public than private.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Interesting.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

And I was checking that out because having been in public sector comms myself for 18

Carrie-Ann Wade:

years, I'm like, maybe I'm off the mark with my thinking that there's lots of

Carrie-Ann Wade:

opportunities to develop, but it's nice to hear it from someone who is fresher into

Carrie-Ann Wade:

their public sector comms career than me.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Thank you.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Sorry, I know that was a slight digression from what we've probably planned to talk

Carrie-Ann Wade:

about, but I know your thoughts on that.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Are you a communications professional who would like to feel more

Carrie-Ann Wade:

confident in your career choices?

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Perhaps you'd like to be more intentional in the way you approach your work life?

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Our Cats Pajamas Thrive Programme is a 12 week structured online

Carrie-Ann Wade:

programme that supports communications professionals to grow and thrive.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

It's a safe space for discussion, action and accountability, all with

Carrie-Ann Wade:

the aim of helping you to thrive as a communicator and as a leader.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

The next Thrive Programme starts on the 1st of September, and if you'd like to

Carrie-Ann Wade:

find out more, or reserve your place on the program, visit the website, catch up

Carrie-Ann Wade:

with us on the socials or drop us a line.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

We talked a little bit earlier about diversity and you mentioned, belonging

Carrie-Ann Wade:

and the fact that maybe you might have got inside your own head a bit

Carrie-Ann Wade:

when you were applying for a job if you had realized perhaps that there

Carrie-Ann Wade:

are issues with the kind of diversity and representation in our profession.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

So I was wondering if you had any thoughts Shameema about what you think

Carrie-Ann Wade:

we could do to encourage more diversity within the communications profession.

Shameema Ali:

So the organization that I work in is extremely diverse in terms

Shameema Ali:

of the patients that we serve, but also the full workforce that we cover.

Shameema Ali:

And I think personally, this has been a huge advantage to me.

Shameema Ali:

As an ethnic minority, I can offer a new insight into how people think,

Shameema Ali:

what may be important to others, and also a person that patients and staff

Shameema Ali:

may be more comfortable speaking to.

Shameema Ali:

I think people from a diverse background need to maybe stop thinking about

Shameema Ali:

why being different is a hindrance to them and flip it on its head and think

Shameema Ali:

about why being different makes them special and use that to their advantage.

Shameema Ali:

Our differences make us who we are and we can't change that.

Shameema Ali:

So I think why dwell on the things that we can't change and create barriers for

Shameema Ali:

ourself, but be positive and be true to yourself and own it and use that

Shameema Ali:

to push you forward in your career.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I love that.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Thank you.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Shameema, if you knew somebody who was considering a career in public sector

Carrie-Ann Wade:

communications and they were a bit on the fence, umming and ahhing whether to

Carrie-Ann Wade:

go for it, what advice might you give them based on your experience to date?

Shameema Ali:

Yeah.

Shameema Ali:

So I would say be their true self.

Shameema Ali:

Don't hold back.

Shameema Ali:

Don't dwell on what other people can do.

Shameema Ali:

You can only show your true self.

Shameema Ali:

No one's gonna know who you are unless you showcase the best of yourself.

Shameema Ali:

So I think put your best foot forward.

Shameema Ali:

Think about what makes you great at what you do and just showcase that.

Shameema Ali:

I think if you dwell on what other...

Shameema Ali:

other people are doing.

Shameema Ali:

That's your own hindrance.

Shameema Ali:

You've got nothing to lose with applying for a job.

Shameema Ali:

If you don't get a job, you don't get it, but I think go

Shameema Ali:

for it and see what happens.

Shameema Ali:

Because honestly, I went for a role in comms.

Shameema Ali:

I had no real comms experience and someone took a chance on

Shameema Ali:

me and I've not looked back.

Shameema Ali:

And I'm really, I'm forever grateful for it.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Oh, I love that.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Thank you so much, Shameema.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

And one of the questions I wanted to come back to and just talk a little

Carrie-Ann Wade:

bit about was around those barriers.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

And I know you said barriers for you have been things that you've put put

Carrie-Ann Wade:

there and you've stopped yourself potentially from progressing because

Carrie-Ann Wade:

of your own internal barriers.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

But do you think there is anything that we could be doing that would help to

Carrie-Ann Wade:

reduce barriers for others in terms of taking that step into our profession?

Shameema Ali:

So I think on a personal level, someone who's questioning it,

Shameema Ali:

I would say surround yourself with allies, people who want to support

Shameema Ali:

you, build you up and help you develop.

Shameema Ali:

I wouldn't want, I don't think you should dwell on others

Shameema Ali:

and their career trajectory.

Shameema Ali:

Everyone's different.

Shameema Ali:

Work on yourself and your goals.

Shameema Ali:

It's easy to get sucked into office politics and other things and

Shameema Ali:

how other people are progressing.

Shameema Ali:

And that can lead to a lot of negative self doubt, really negative mindset.

Shameema Ali:

So do what you can to support yourself and enjoy the work that you do.

Shameema Ali:

And that will help you shine.

Shameema Ali:

I find the work that I enjoy the most is the best type of work I do.

Shameema Ali:

And if there are areas of work that you don't enjoy, which everyone has

Shameema Ali:

consider why that is, is it because, you don't feel confident enough

Shameema Ali:

in it and address that head on.

Shameema Ali:

So look for additional training that can help you.

Shameema Ali:

But I think you need to be your own change.

Shameema Ali:

I don't, I think, it's great to surround yourself with good people, but you need

Shameema Ali:

to make that positive change yourself.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Oh, Shameema, that's such good advice for people

Carrie-Ann Wade:

who are listening, for sure.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

And there is something isn't there in there about, you have to really want it.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

And I think I think I'm always really impressed by how much you invest in it.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

in developing your own self and growing and developing as

Carrie-Ann Wade:

a professional and as a leader.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

And it's been an absolute privilege to see some of your journey so far.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

And I know there'll be greater things to come in this space as well.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

So you'll definitely want to watch Shameema.

Shameema Ali:

Oh, thank you.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

please do keep going with encouraging others to develop themselves

Carrie-Ann Wade:

and challenge themselves as well, because I think that's really important

Carrie-Ann Wade:

part of growing in the profession.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I've really appreciated you giving us some of your insight

Carrie-Ann Wade:

and sharing your journey today.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Is there any Oh, thank you for coming.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

You're so welcome.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

And I'm sure we might be back interviewing you again in a few years time when you've

Carrie-Ann Wade:

taken your next step in your career trajectory and we'll be asking, we'll be

Carrie-Ann Wade:

asking for your advice for communicators who want to follow in your footsteps.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Thank you so much for sharing today and spending the time being part of this.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

And good luck with whatever adventures lie ahead for you in your comms career

Carrie-Ann Wade:

and thank you for all you do to support and encourage other communicators

Carrie-Ann Wade:

to be their best selves because I think you do that really well.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

So thank you.

Shameema Ali:

Thank you so much.

Shameema Ali:

Thank you.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Thank you for listening to this episode of Behind the Bob.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I'd love for you to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform

Carrie-Ann Wade:

and leave a rating or a review.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

You can also engage with me over on the socials.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

You can find me on Instagram and on Twitter at @catspjs_uk.

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