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Time to 1.5 | 7 | Makoko and Eko
Episode 7 • 5th April 2022 • Threshold • Auricle Productions
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Cale Bergschneider:

Threshold is made with the support of

Cale Bergschneider:

listeners like you. Join us at thresholdpodcast.org

Amy Martin:

People love coastlines, and I'm no

Amy Martin:

exception. There is an inherent drama to the places where the

Amy Martin:

land meets the sea, like Point Reyes National Seashore, just

Amy Martin:

north of San Francisco, which is where I recorded these sounds

Amy Martin:

years ago. I love being in this place, right on the edge of the

Amy Martin:

continent, with all of North America behind me and all of the

Amy Martin:

vast Pacific Ocean in front of me. Humans have always been

Amy Martin:

drawn to coastlines for all kinds of economic and cultural

Amy Martin:

reasons. We've traveled along them for migration and trade.

Amy Martin:

We've hunted and fished in coastal waters, and we've built

Amy Martin:

communities, including some of the world's biggest cities, in

Amy Martin:

these dynamic, beautiful zones of contrast and possibility. But

Amy Martin:

the climate crisis is changing what it means to live next to

Amy Martin:

the ocean. Even if we keep warming to 1.5 degrees average,

Amy Martin:

sea levels at the end of this century will be about a foot

Amy Martin:

higher than they were in the year 2000. That's roughly a

Amy Martin:

third of a meter. But that's an optimistic guess. We could be in

Amy Martin:

for six feet or two meters of sea level rise or more. And that

Amy Martin:

leads to all kinds of questions, where are all of the people who

Amy Martin:

live on the coasts gonna go? How do we build or maintain

Amy Martin:

infrastructure in a world where the shoreline keeps changing?

Amy Martin:

These questions are not at all theoretical. Coastal communities

Amy Martin:

all over the world are facing them right now, and this is one

Amy Martin:

of the most challenging aspects of the climate crisis. Even as

Amy Martin:

we try to lower emissions and limit future temperature rise,

Amy Martin:

we also have to deal with the warming that's already

Amy Martin:

happening. In climate speak, these two things are called

Amy Martin:

mitigation and adaptation, and one of the places where you can

Amy Martin:

see the need for both of them simultaneously is in Lagos, the

Amy Martin:

largest city in Nigeria and one of the most important ports in

Amy Martin:

Africa. Lagos is flourishing in many ways. There's a booming

Amy Martin:

entertainment industry, it's a hub for authors, but it's also

Amy Martin:

facing huge problems as the world warms and the ocean

Amy Martin:

increasingly encroaches on the city. We're going to spend this

Amy Martin:

whole episode in Lagos, examining two very different

Amy Martin:

responses to the challenges of sea level rise. Welcome to

Amy Martin:

Threshold. I'm Amy Martin, and I'm excited to introduce you to

Amy Martin:

reporter Shola Lawal. She's from Nigeria, she's worked for the

Amy Martin:

New York Times, The Guardian, Deutsche Welle in Germany, and

Amy Martin:

she's going to be our guide for this journey in Lagos.

Amy Martin:

Hi. Shola!

Shola Lawal:

Hi.

Amy Martin:

So you've lived in Lagos for like, 10 years, but

Amy Martin:

you're not actually from the city, right?

Shola Lawal:

No, I'm actually from a much smaller city. It's

Shola Lawal:

towards the north. It's not on the coast, for sure. I actually

Shola Lawal:

I moved here to Lagos when I was 16.

Amy Martin:

And what was that like for you to arrive in this

Amy Martin:

gigantic city. What do you remember from your first days in

Amy Martin:

Lagos?

Shola Lawal:

Well, I remember feeling like someone had kind of

Shola Lawal:

hit the fast forward button. People here rush a lot, and I

Shola Lawal:

just, I was trying to, you know, take everything in. And I

Shola Lawal:

remember that I just kept looking at the way that people

Shola Lawal:

would move. People were so animated, you know, I wanted to

Shola Lawal:

see the look on everybody's face, but they were moving so

Shola Lawal:

fast. And the buildings, I remember, the buildings, were so

Shola Lawal:

tall to me back then, because I'm from much smaller city. We

Shola Lawal:

don't have that many buildings. Basically everything looked like

Shola Lawal:

a movie, you know. And I wanted to take it all in at once, which

Shola Lawal:

was, of course, impossible, but definitely it was interesting,

Shola Lawal:

overwhelming and exciting.

Amy Martin:

Well, I've been looking at Lagos on Google Maps

Amy Martin:

a lot lately, and it has a really interesting layout. It

Amy Martin:

almost looks like it's kind of been built on islands. Is that

Amy Martin:

right?

Shola Lawal:

Kind of. So Lagos is basically split between the

Shola Lawal:

mainland and the island. It's a case of two cities, really. The

Shola Lawal:

mainland is where a lot of middle income workers leave

Shola Lawal:

because it's much cheaper than the island. And then there's a

Shola Lawal:

bridge that connects the mainland to the island. The

Shola Lawal:

island, of course, is where, you know, all the high earners leave

Shola Lawal:

and work. And it's also where the business district of Lagos

Shola Lawal:

is, so you see a lot of offices there.

Amy Martin:

So, sorry to impose a US context here, but is it

Amy Martin:

sort of like the island is Manhattan and the mainland is

Amy Martin:

more Brooklyn, Bronx kind of?

Shola Lawal:

Kind of, I would say, yeah, very similar.

Amy Martin:

And it sounds like there's water just everywhere.

Shola Lawal:

There is water everywhere because, of course,

Shola Lawal:

Lagos Island implies that there's water everywhere, but

Shola Lawal:

there's also water because of the constant rains Lagos

Shola Lawal:

climate. It has two rainy seasons, so there's lots and

Shola Lawal:

lots of water. So this is something that I recorded last

Shola Lawal:

summer, it was the rainy season in Nigeria, I was driving

Shola Lawal:

through the city during a very heavy downpour.

Shola Lawal:

It's raining like crazy today in Lagos, and everywhere is flooded

Shola Lawal:

in front of me, honestly, I see school kids coming back from

Shola Lawal:

school. It's around 3pm and they have their school sandals off,

Shola Lawal:

and they're just walking in the water because the waters are so

Shola Lawal:

high at this point, everyone is like pulling their trousers or

Shola Lawal:

pulling their dresses off. Cars are really struggling to pass

Shola Lawal:

through this sea of a road, and the water really comes pretty

Shola Lawal:

close to the door handle of a normal sedan.

Amy Martin:

So that sounds kind of scary.

Shola Lawal:

It was a little scary. Maybe, you know, very

Shola Lawal:

scary, but it's also completely an ordinary experience in Lagos.

Shola Lawal:

You know, Lagos has a really poor drainage system, so streets

Shola Lawal:

and buildings get flooded all the time. And when you add the

Shola Lawal:

rising seas to the mix, you realize that Lagos is actually

Shola Lawal:

disappearing. The coast right now is already eroding.

Amy Martin:

So there's less land, but more and more people,

Amy Martin:

right? I keep hearing about how Lagos is growing.

Shola Lawal:

That is correct. The greater Lagos area has about

Shola Lawal:

20 million people, and more people are coming in all of the

Shola Lawal:

time. I mean, something like 2000 people move to the city

Shola Lawal:

every week, just from other parts of Nigeria, and then there

Shola Lawal:

are more people coming in from neighboring countries, people

Shola Lawal:

coming in for work, people coming in for business. Real

Shola Lawal:

estate prices, of course, because of this, are really

Shola Lawal:

expensive, really sort of way out of reach for a lot of

Shola Lawal:

people. So folks are kind of living just wherever they can.

Shola Lawal:

They're building informal communities without basic

Shola Lawal:

infrastructure just to survive and make sure that they stay in

Shola Lawal:

the city.

Amy Martin:

And you spent time in one of those communities as

Amy Martin:

part of your reporting for this season, yeah?

Shola Lawal:

That is correct. I actually went to two communities

Shola Lawal:

in Lagos, one very poor and one very, not. Two very different

Shola Lawal:

ways of building that they have, building more livable spaces and

Shola Lawal:

living with sea level rise at the same time.

Amy Martin:

All right, well, I'm really excited to go on this

Amy Martin:

journey with you. Before I hand you the rains fully here, can

Amy Martin:

you just tell us the names of these two communities so we can

Amy Martin:

kind of get oriented.

Shola Lawal:

Of course. So the first place that we're going to

Shola Lawal:

go is called Makoko. It's one of the informal communities that I

Shola Lawal:

was just describing to you while the second one is called Eko

Shola Lawal:

Atlantic City, and it's the opposite of informal. It's a in

Shola Lawal:

a brand new part of Lagos. It's very neat, it's very tidy, it's

Shola Lawal:

very organized. It's very the opposite of Lagos.

Amy Martin:

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, I am delighted to

Amy Martin:

leave you with Shola Lawal for an adventure in Lagos, Nigeria.

David Adeleke:

Nigeria needs something like this to bolster

David Adeleke:

its image.

Unknown:

Every country is vulnerable to the impacts of

Unknown:

climate change. However, the poorer people in every country

Unknown:

are more vulnerable than rich people.

Kunle Adeyemi:

Our vision is to create modern, thriving,

Kunle Adeyemi:

inclusive, beautiful settlements.

Sherri Goodman:

You don't have to have 100% certainty that X is

Sherri Goodman:

going to happen Y time to know that it's a threat.

Shola Lawal:

I'm walking through a part of Lagos I've never

Shola Lawal:

visited before it's lively and chaotic and congested.

Shola Lawal:

This is Makoko, and around me, I see women on motorcycles trying

Shola Lawal:

to get around. I see women selling fish, smoked fish,

Shola Lawal:

likely caught from the Lagos lagoon.

Shola Lawal:

Makoko is what many people would call a slum. It's an informal

Shola Lawal:

community where residents have very little when it comes to

Shola Lawal:

material possessions or security, but they do have

Shola Lawal:

something many lagosians don't: a potential solution to rising

Shola Lawal:

sea levels, while the rest of Lagos is in a constant battle

Shola Lawal:

with water, people here are learning to live with it, and I

Shola Lawal:

mean that quite literally. Half of the homes in Makoko aren't on

Shola Lawal:

land at all. They're built on stilts on the Lagos lagoon.

Shola Lawal:

So I'm currently waiting on the street. For my fixer, Dennis, to

Shola Lawal:

join me, and he will take me hopefully to the floating

Shola Lawal:

community itself. Hello. Dennis just joined me.

Shola Lawal:

My guide to Makoko is Dennis Hounkani. He's lived here all

Shola Lawal:

his life, and knows the community inside and out. He and

Shola Lawal:

I speak Yoruba together. It's one of the main native languages

Shola Lawal:

of Nigeria.

Shola Lawal:

So I was just talking to Dennis about where he grew up. He says

Shola Lawal:

he was born right on the water. And that he is basically a fish.

Shola Lawal:

As Dennis and I walk toward the water's edge, lots of little

Shola Lawal:

kids skip in and out of the wooden homes. Some of the houses

Shola Lawal:

here are three stories tall. The colors faded from pinks and

Shola Lawal:

blues into a smoky black.

Shola Lawal:

There's lots and lots of water now, even in between the houses

Shola Lawal:

to see women cooking, lots of children around, some of them in

Shola Lawal:

their school uniforms because school just closed.

Shola Lawal:

People have lived in Makoko since at least the 19th century,

Shola Lawal:

and fishing has always been at the center of life here. There's

Shola Lawal:

a huge fish market in the community, and the people of

Shola Lawal:

Makoko sell fish in markets in other parts of Lagos too.

Shola Lawal:

Oh, lots of fish smoking places, lots and lots of fish. There's

Shola Lawal:

so much fish here. Looks delicious, really.

Shola Lawal:

These houses are tiny.

Shola Lawal:

It's hard to know how many people actually live here.

Shola Lawal:

People here are crammed together in tight quarters. From any one

Shola Lawal:

Estimates place it between 40,000 to 300,000 people. That

Shola Lawal:

range is so wide because there's never been an official census.

Shola Lawal:

apartment, you can hear the conversations going on in

Shola Lawal:

It's a community that grows and changes all the time.

Shola Lawal:

neighboring houses. We walk through row after row of small

Shola Lawal:

houses on swampy land, and I know I'm getting close to the

Shola Lawal:

water when I start to see houses on short stilts, and when my

Shola Lawal:

feet start to sink deeper into the ground as I walk.

Shola Lawal:

So now we are approaching the water community itself.

Shola Lawal:

We've arrived at the edge of the Lagos lagoon. It's a big pool of

Shola Lawal:

water, 50 kilometers long, protected from the full force of

Shola Lawal:

the Atlantic Ocean by a long sand spit.

Shola Lawal:

So just to try to describe the houses, they are on stilts, just

Shola Lawal:

rising above the lagoon. Lagoon is dark, murky, and the houses

Shola Lawal:

are just floating above it.

Shola Lawal:

Dozens of teenage boys are paddling wooden boats between

Shola Lawal:

the rows of houses that appear to float on the water. The boys

Shola Lawal:

are like cabbies. They know where everybody lives, and they

Shola Lawal:

take you where you want to go for a small fee.

Shola Lawal:

So we are at the waterfront now. Oh, I think we're about to get

Shola Lawal:

into a boat. Dennis helps me into a wooden canoe that dips

Shola Lawal:

from side to side as I step in.

Shola Lawal:

Okay, yes, successful. Okay, I'm on the water now. There's people

Shola Lawal:

selling food on the water, like in their boats, tomatoes, rice.

Shola Lawal:

Lots of women on boats. Women are quite enterprising in the

Shola Lawal:

community. There's a boat beside me with lots of fish. I think a

Shola Lawal:

fisherwoman just came back.

Shola Lawal:

I struggle to find my balance while all around me, tiny kids,

Shola Lawal:

women with mountains of smoked fish to sell and young girls out

Shola Lawal:

to sell groceries expertly navigate the waters. Makoko is a

Shola Lawal:

tangle of waterways as busy as any Lagos street.

Shola Lawal:

Aah! Collision on sea. I really almost fell into the water just

Shola Lawal:

now. Everybody was alarmed.

Shola Lawal:

Building on the water is not necessarily about climate change

Shola Lawal:

for people in Makoko, they're doing this because they need

Shola Lawal:

somewhere to live, and there's not enough land in Lagos. And

Shola Lawal:

it's not that climate change and rising waters don't impact the

Shola Lawal:

people of Makoko, but living in homes in the Lagos Lagoon, where

Shola Lawal:

water rises and falls throughout the day. Maybe helping them to

Shola Lawal:

prepare for these impacts. They have firsthand lived experience

Shola Lawal:

with ever changing sea levels, and they've built their homes on

Shola Lawal:

stilts with those changes in mind, they figured out how to

Shola Lawal:

trade and move around their community in canoes instead of

Shola Lawal:

cars or buses. The people of Makoko are doing what people

Shola Lawal:

have done in all kinds of habitats for all of human

Shola Lawal:

history, really. They're turning this unlikely place into a home

Shola Lawal:

using their resourcefulness and their determination.

Shola Lawal:

In front of me is a house that is being renovated.

Shola Lawal:

Dennis introduces me to Michael Fada. Everyone here just calls

Shola Lawal:

him Fada. He's a carpenter, and his specialty is building on

Shola Lawal:

water.

Shola Lawal:

Fada tells me that the trick to building a water house is a very

Shola Lawal:

strong foundation. He says he starts with stilts about 12 feet

Shola Lawal:

long, which he pounds halfway into the bed of the lagoon. He

Shola Lawal:

uses a special wood that doesn't easily rot. It's called 'Kpakpa'

Shola Lawal:

in our native Yoruba language.

Shola Lawal:

Fada makes the foundations of the homes, and then people add

Shola Lawal:

their own personal touches. Some houses here are painted in

Shola Lawal:

bright colors, and others are just plain wood. To build a home

Shola Lawal:

here in Makoko, you spend about a million naira. That's around

Shola Lawal:

$2,000. It's much cheaper than buying a house in other parts of

Shola Lawal:

Lagos. Still in Nigeria, the minimum wage is low. It's the

Shola Lawal:

equivalent of about 70 US dollars a month. So spending

Shola Lawal:

$2,000 to build a floating home is big money for many people.

Shola Lawal:

Fada says it takes a lot of effort to make the foundations

Shola Lawal:

for the floating houses, weeks sometimes, but that effort pays

Shola Lawal:

off. He says, houses here can stand for 20 years before

Shola Lawal:

collapsing into the lagoon. Still, a lot of basic

Shola Lawal:

infrastructure is missing in Makoko. Most people have

Shola Lawal:

electricity, but there's no indoor plumbing or proper

Shola Lawal:

garbage disposal, and there are no hospitals in the community.

Shola Lawal:

Fada's wife Victoria told me that the difficulty in getting

Shola Lawal:

to a health center can actually lead to some very dangerous

Shola Lawal:

situations, especially for women.

Shola Lawal:

Victoria tells me that it takes a while to paddle a pregnant

Shola Lawal:

woman in labor out to government hospitals on the land. Many

Shola Lawal:

women have died because of that, she says, and now some are even

Shola Lawal:

too scared to have babies. Dennis and I get back into the

Shola Lawal:

canoes as we paddle around, I get a strong sense of community,

Shola Lawal:

like everyone knows each other here. People laugh a lot at

Shola Lawal:

themselves and at newcomers like me, who cannot find their

Shola Lawal:

balance in the canoes, but I also get the feeling that I'm

Shola Lawal:

intruding. Many reporters have come here before over the years,

Shola Lawal:

flashing big cameras and ready to document life in Makoko.

Shola Lawal:

Residents here are tired of it. Now, even though I'm just

Shola Lawal:

holding a mic, I see people look at me with distrust, like

Shola Lawal:

they're thinking, Oh, it's another outsider coming to see

Shola Lawal:

how poor we are. What else is new? And in some ways, they are

Shola Lawal:

right. Even though I live in Lagos, I am kind of shocked by

Shola Lawal:

some aspects of life here. The Lagos Lagoon is where a lot of

Shola Lawal:

the dirt in Lagos goes. There's garbage and human poop floating

Shola Lawal:

all around us. Every hour, the water is supposed to drain out

Shola Lawal:

of the lagoon and then get refreshed. But it doesn't seem

Shola Lawal:

to actually work that way. The water itself has a smell that

Shola Lawal:

I'm not a fan of because it stayed in one place for too

Shola Lawal:

long. The smell sticks to the back of my tongue, making it

Shola Lawal:

hard to swallow. Sometimes I hold my breath till I feel

Shola Lawal:

lightheaded. There's too much smoke too from all the fish the

Shola Lawal:

women are processing. No matter how sunny it is in Lagos, Makoko

Shola Lawal:

always has its own foggy ambiance. A lot of people dream

Shola Lawal:

about living next to a beautiful, wide open beach, but

Shola Lawal:

living right in the water, especially if that water is a

Shola Lawal:

stagnant lagoon, is another thing entirely. It's hard, but

Shola Lawal:

it may also be the wave of the future for Lagos, the city has a

Shola Lawal:

growing population, limited land area, poor drainage systems and.

Shola Lawal:

And a natural tendency to flood when the heavy rains start, as

Shola Lawal:

they do every year, in April and in October, the water has

Shola Lawal:

nowhere to go.

Kunle Adeyemi:

The cradle of civilization is known to be

Kunle Adeyemi:

settled around water in Mesopotamia and cities have

Kunle Adeyemi:

always settled around water because of agriculture,

Kunle Adeyemi:

infrastructure, transportation.

Shola Lawal:

That's kule Adeyemi, an architect from

Shola Lawal:

Lagos. One of Kunle's passions is affordable and sustainable

Shola Lawal:

housing, and he says that watching the city struggle with

Shola Lawal:

flooding inspired him to design buildings that adapt to nature

Shola Lawal:

rather than fight it.

Kunle Adeyemi:

I remember driving around and the entire

Kunle Adeyemi:

street was covered, became a river. And it was literally like

Kunle Adeyemi:

an epiphany that, wow, many places in Lagos that we think on

Kunle Adeyemi:

land actually just very prone to flooding, and they might really

Kunle Adeyemi:

just be covered with water. This really triggered my passion for

Kunle Adeyemi:

building, not just on land, but also on water.

Shola Lawal:

Kunle researched many different models before

Shola Lawal:

realizing that the answer might just be right outside his door

Shola Lawal:

in Makoko.

Kunle Adeyemi:

It then occurred to me that people who lived in

Kunle Adeyemi:

Makoko were building some of the cheapest dwellings. They have

Kunle Adeyemi:

found a way to develop communities and almost a city,

Kunle Adeyemi:

and they were building it on water, not land.

Shola Lawal:

People in Makoko are actually at the forefront of

Shola Lawal:

an emerging global trend. In the Netherlands, new floating

Shola Lawal:

communities are being planned and prototyped. It's also

Shola Lawal:

happening in the Maldives and other countries, but Makoko is

Shola Lawal:

way past the modeling stage. It's happening, people are

Shola Lawal:

leaving this experiment right now, and Kunle has ideas for how

Shola Lawal:

to improve it.

Kunle Adeyemi:

By developing infrastructure solutions for

Kunle Adeyemi:

managing waste, managing water, clean water. And our vision is

Kunle Adeyemi:

to create water cities and develop communities like Makoko

Kunle Adeyemi:

into modern, thriving, inclusive and beautiful settlements.

Shola Lawal:

Many of Africa's large cities are on the coast,

Shola Lawal:

and in Lagos, half of the population lives within two

Shola Lawal:

meters of the sea. That's six feet. In the next 50 years, seas

Shola Lawal:

are predicted to rise by a meter here, that would displace about

Shola Lawal:

two to three million people here in Lagos alone. But this is

Shola Lawal:

definitely not just an African problem. Some version of what's

Shola Lawal:

happening to Lagos right now is likely to happen in coastal

Shola Lawal:

cities from Bangkok to Miami. So how Lagos deals with climate

Shola Lawal:

change could hold lessons for everyone. Kunle says this

Shola Lawal:

inspired him to innovate. He developed a prototype structure

Shola Lawal:

for Makoko back in 2012 it was a floating school built right on

Shola Lawal:

the water, the first in Africa. The project was praised as a

Shola Lawal:

success. The Lagos state government supported it and the

Shola Lawal:

United Nations. It made international news and brought a

Shola Lawal:

lot of positive attention to Makoko. A bad storm destroyed

Shola Lawal:

the school a few years later, but Kunle's company has kept

Shola Lawal:

refining their process. Now they are building floating hubs in

Shola Lawal:

other places, in Africa, Asia and Europe, and Kunle wants to

Shola Lawal:

come back and do more. In fact, he wants to redesign all of

Shola Lawal:

Makoko for the people who live there now. Kunle thinks that

Shola Lawal:

with new and better designs, Makoko could be more livable and

Shola Lawal:

more pleasing to look at. He even thinks that it could be an

Shola Lawal:

attraction for Lagos.

Kunle Adeyemi:

We see Makoko as a place of opportunity and a

Kunle Adeyemi:

place that has a lot of history, and we can really think about

Kunle Adeyemi:

preserving places like this, enhancing the culture. It's what

Kunle Adeyemi:

people do in different parts of world. Why do you go to the

Kunle Adeyemi:

floating market in Thailand? What have they got that we don't

Kunle Adeyemi:

have? You know, when do we start to recognize our own values, our

Kunle Adeyemi:

own assets and and enhance them?

Shola Lawal:

Kunle has worked closely with the community

Shola Lawal:

before, and many people in Makoko, especially young

Shola Lawal:

residents like my guide, Dennis, love his ideas, but not everyone

Shola Lawal:

shares Kunle his vision for Makoko, especially some

Shola Lawal:

officials in Lagos state. Most political and business leaders

Shola Lawal:

here are eager to sell the city to the world as a place to make

Shola Lawal:

deals, shoot movies, plan vacations or meet and mingle

Shola Lawal:

with Nigeria's glitterati. Makoko doesn't fit into that

Shola Lawal:

story. From the third mainland bridge, one of the major

Shola Lawal:

arteries into downtown Lagos, you can see Makoko below. Brown

Shola Lawal:

wooden shacks in a cloud of smoke standing in the murky

Shola Lawal:

waters of the lagoon. Instead of seeing a model of

Shola Lawal:

resourcefulness and climate adaptation, though, city leaders

Shola Lawal:

see an eyesore and an embarrassment for the investors

Shola Lawal:

that they want to attract to Lagos.

Baale Alaase:

Investors used to come and visit, and then they

Baale Alaase:

used to go and complain. They said, our dwelling houses are

Baale Alaase:

shanties and they are spoiling the Third Mainland Bridge.

Shola Lawal:

This is Baale Francis Agonu. He's one of the

Shola Lawal:

five chiefs that govern Makoko. His full title is actually Baale

Shola Lawal:

Alaase. Baale means chief in Yoruba, and alaase means

Shola Lawal:

commander. The Baale tells me that many people came to Makoko

Shola Lawal:

from coastal villages in the Benin Republic. It's a small

Shola Lawal:

country that borders Nigeria, the migration happened back when

Shola Lawal:

there were no colonial borders.

Baale Alaase:

They collected themselves from different areas

Baale Alaase:

as fishermen. They came here far back 18th century, while here

Baale Alaase:

was swampy, when there was no traces of life.

Shola Lawal:

The Baale says the Lagos royal family unofficially

Shola Lawal:

loaned the land around Makoko so the first settlers here so they

Shola Lawal:

could live close to the water and fish.

Baale Alaase:

It is waterfront property because we are water

Baale Alaase:

bound. We are fishermen and we live on water. Living on water

Baale Alaase:

is our main game.

Shola Lawal:

But people here can't prove ownership of Makoko

Shola Lawal:

and Lagos authorities want them out. They've tried to get them

Shola Lawal:

to vacate the area multiple times already. Their plan is to

Shola Lawal:

move the residents to Agbowa, an area some 60 kilometers away. If

Shola Lawal:

that happens, residents will have to walk about two miles to

Shola Lawal:

get to the water, which means this community of fishing people

Shola Lawal:

would have to find a whole new way of life. The Lagos

Shola Lawal:

government has even tried to demolish Makoko by force,

Shola Lawal:

sending the police to knock down and clear away houses. The most

Shola Lawal:

recent attempt was in 2012. One man died in the confrontation

Shola Lawal:

between the community and the security forces. His death got

Shola Lawal:

the attention of human rights organizations and forced the

Shola Lawal:

government to abandon the idea of removing the settlement, at

Shola Lawal:

least temporarily. The men left, but the residents of Makoko live

Shola Lawal:

in constant fear that one day they'll be back. I reached out

Shola Lawal:

to the Lagos state urban renewal agency, that's the state

Shola Lawal:

department in charge of this case, but they declined to

Shola Lawal:

comment. Kunle says that the present state governor of Lagos

Shola Lawal:

has shown an interest in his plans, but people are skeptical

Shola Lawal:

that the government would actually decide to invest in

Shola Lawal:

Makoko, especially since the Lagos authorities have

Shola Lawal:

demolished several other informal communities in recent

Shola Lawal:

years. So there's a lot at stake here for a lot of people. If

Shola Lawal:

people are forced out of Makoko, the fishermen here will struggle

Shola Lawal:

to survive, and Lagosians will struggle too. They'll have fewer

Shola Lawal:

fish available to buy, and a lot more people on the streets

Shola Lawal:

looking for somewhere to live. Some people here swear to me

Shola Lawal:

that they'll resist being shipped to a far off location,

Shola Lawal:

being forced away from the water. When I asked Baale what

Shola Lawal:

he would like me to tell the authorities, he said, just that

Shola Lawal:

Makoko should not be demolished. With support from the city, he

Shola Lawal:

thinks that the people here can survive and thrive, especially

Shola Lawal:

as the world heats up.

Baale Alaase:

As you talk about climate change, things are, you

Baale Alaase:

know, turning upside down.

Shola Lawal:

Baale says he hears about the flooding plaguing the

Shola Lawal:

rest of the city, but it's not something that he's bothered

Shola Lawal:

about because of the way his community lives on and with the

Shola Lawal:

water.

Baale Alaase:

We don't suffer for all those things. So Makoko,

Baale Alaase:

if government can give us peace, we, too can be, you know,

Baale Alaase:

ameliorating it by constructing very, very modern houses,

Baale Alaase:

floating houses.

Shola Lawal:

Everyone I spoke to in Makoko told me that they want

Shola Lawal:

Lagos officials to stop trying to destroy their homes. But

Shola Lawal:

there's a split in the community when it comes to Kunle Adeyemi's

Shola Lawal:

plans. While the younger generation seems really excited

Shola Lawal:

about upgrading this maze of floating shacks into an

Shola Lawal:

esthetically pleasing landmark, Baale and the other chiefs

Shola Lawal:

aren't so sure. They worry that the architect's ideas could

Shola Lawal:

provoke the government to send in the security forces again.

Shola Lawal:

They want to keep quiet and try to stay under the radar. For

Shola Lawal:

now, Lagos authorities are focusing elsewhere. They see a

Shola Lawal:

lot of opportunities and money in developing pricey residential

Shola Lawal:

estates, places for very different types of Lagosians

Shola Lawal:

than those who live here on the lagoon. One of them is just 15

Shola Lawal:

short kilometers from Makoko. I'm going to take you there

Shola Lawal:

right after this short break.

Erika Janik:

Hey everybody, this is Erika Janik, Threshold's

Erika Janik:

Managing Editor. Did you know that we have a Threshold

Erika Janik:

newsletter? Our newsletter is a great way to stay connected to

Erika Janik:

Threshold between seasons. Find out what we're thinking about

Erika Janik:

and what we're reading, listening to and watching. So

Erika Janik:

subscribe to the Threshold newsletter today using the link

Erika Janik:

in the show notes or on our website, thresholdpodcast.org.

Shola Lawal:

Okay, it's a very sunny afternoon in Lagos.

Shola Lawal:

Welcome back to Threshold. I'm Shola Lawal, and I'm driving

Shola Lawal:

down a busy Lagos highway with my sister. This road used to be

Shola Lawal:

right on the water's edge, but not anymore.

Shola Lawal:

All around me, I can see sand, lots of construction materials.

Shola Lawal:

All of this is behind a gated fence that goes for kilometers.

Shola Lawal:

I don't know how many kilometers, a lot, I guess.

Shola Lawal:

The land we're looking at didn't exist a decade ago. It's brand

Shola Lawal:

new territory made of sand dredged from the ocean. It's as

Shola Lawal:

if Lagos has grown a new wing, a new peninsula.

Shola Lawal:

And just in the horizon, I can see a number of very tall

Shola Lawal:

buildings, very imposing structures, that looks quite,

Shola Lawal:

quite far away.

Shola Lawal:

This is a Eko Atlantic, a new luxury mini-city. It's big, 10

Shola Lawal:

square kilometers, or about four square miles. I actually used to

Shola Lawal:

live near here, back when this land didn't exist, when it was

Shola Lawal:

just open water here. And every day, bit by bit, I saw and heard

Shola Lawal:

an endless stream of trucks bringing in sand and stones to

Shola Lawal:

build this place.

Shola Lawal:

But even though I watched Eko Atlantic emerge from the sea,

Shola Lawal:

This building right in front of us. Yes, the third floor. So

Shola Lawal:

that used to be my room. And then from there, I would watch

Shola Lawal:

as they were like bringing the sand and everything was very

Shola Lawal:

I'd never actually gone in there. It's surrounded by

Shola Lawal:

interesting, because they used to wake me up at four every

Shola Lawal:

fences, and you can't just come and go freely. I stopped the car

Shola Lawal:

morning. Four am every morning, I would wake to that sound.

Shola Lawal:

outside the guarded gate to prepare myself and gather the

Shola Lawal:

courage to go in.

Shola Lawal:

So now I'm going to attempt to go inside Eko Atlantic. They'll

Shola Lawal:

probably not let me in, but I'm dressed for the occasion. I have

Shola Lawal:

a pink top and pink scarf on. I have my earrings. I look good.

Shola Lawal:

Hopefully they'll let me in. Let's see.

Shola Lawal:

Eko Atlantic was designed for a very specific class of people,

Shola Lawal:

and as my sister and I drive up to the gate in my noisy blue

Shola Lawal:

Toyota Matrix, I'm very aware that I'm not in that class. I'm

Shola Lawal:

hoping, though, that I can win the guards over with my charm.

Shola Lawal:

Okay, we're approaching the gate. The gate is blue. I see

Shola Lawal:

security guards. They're approaching, oh, wow, like, just

Shola Lawal:

like at the gate, it feels like we're about to enter Dubai or

Shola Lawal:

something. They're looking at me with like, some puzzling it's

Shola Lawal:

like, Who are these ones? Hello, good afternoon. Please, sir,

Shola Lawal:

we're just checking, we're just coming to see, we just want to

Shola Lawal:

see Eko Atlantic.

Guard:

It's not allowed, ma'am.

Shola Lawal:

Oh we can't even go to the restaurant?

Guard:

The restaurant?

Shola Lawal:

Yeah, we'll go now, we'll spend money.

Shola Lawal:

The guard gives us a pass that allows us to drive around as

Shola Lawal:

long as we don't get out of the car. The first thing I'm struck

Shola Lawal:

by is just how huge this new peninsula is.

Shola Lawal:

Wow, it's much bigger than I actually thought.

Shola Lawal:

The second thing I noticed are the roads. They're pristine.

Shola Lawal:

This is definitely like one of the smoothest like layouts in

Shola Lawal:

Lagos, because the network here is so good. This is not what

Shola Lawal:

Lagos is like at all. Lagos is full of narrow streets are like

Shola Lawal:

potholes everywhere. So this is definitely a different Lagos.

Shola Lawal:

Eko Atlantic feels different because it is different. It's a

Shola Lawal:

manufactured place. Everything we're looking at, the roads, the

Shola Lawal:

buildings, even the land itself, is privately owned. For years,

Shola Lawal:

the Atlantic Ocean has been eating away at the Lagos

Shola Lawal:

shoreline, and as the climate gets hotter and more

Shola Lawal:

unpredictable, the risk of flooding and dangerous storms is

Shola Lawal:

going up. After a particularly bad storm in 2005, the state

Shola Lawal:

government ran a contest asking for ideas on how to protect

Shola Lawal:

Lagos. The winning design came from a deep pocketed development

Shola Lawal:

firm called the Chagoury Group. The city handed over ownership

Shola Lawal:

of the area, and the Eko Atlantic city began to emerge.

Shola Lawal:

My sister and I are kind of awed by what we see as we drive

Shola Lawal:

around. We've watched videos of Eko Atlantic online showing off

Shola Lawal:

the million dollar apartments and restaurants, but they didn't

Shola Lawal:

prepare us for how it feels to actually be here. Tarred roads

Shola Lawal:

run for miles into the distance until we can't even see their

Shola Lawal:

curves anymore. They're lined with palm trees, and there's

Shola Lawal:

white sand everywhere, giving off the vibe of a middle-eastern

Shola Lawal:

beach resort.

Shola Lawal:

This is nice. I mean, it's so vast, so big. It's just like

Shola Lawal:

miles and miles of road.

Shola Lawal:

Up ahead, we can see a group of tall, shiny buildings.

Shola Lawal:

I think this is a residential part. I see about 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Shola Lawal:

buildings that are complete. Gray color, huge. This must be

Shola Lawal:

like the center, center of attraction.

Shola Lawal:

But other than construction workers, we see almost no

Shola Lawal:

people. It almost feels like we're on a set for a movie, but

Shola Lawal:

most of the cast hasn't shown up yet. In the distance, I think I

Shola Lawal:

can see the ocean, but it's too far away to say for sure.

Shola Lawal:

Driving around Eko Atlantic City, it's hard to believe that

Shola Lawal:

Makoko is just 15 kilometers away. The contrast between these

Shola Lawal:

two communities couldn't be more stark. Makoko is crowded, busy

Shola Lawal:

and lively, and Eko Atlantic, it feels empty and ghostly quiet.

Shola Lawal:

In Makoko, there's no escaping the messy parts of life. Every

Shola Lawal:

day, people are confronted with their own garbage and their

Shola Lawal:

waste. Here in Eko Atlantic, the streets are immaculate. In

Shola Lawal:

Makoko, people struggle to come up with the $2,000 needed to

Shola Lawal:

build a humble home on the water. Here, people buy

Shola Lawal:

apartments with stunning ocean views for around a million

Shola Lawal:

dollars. Only about 1000 people live here in Eko Atlantic City

Shola Lawal:

right now, but when it's done, this place could house up to

Shola Lawal:

300,000 people. But although these two places feel very

Shola Lawal:

different, they are both potential solutions to the same

Shola Lawal:

problems, too much water and not enough land, and as the world

Shola Lawal:

heats up, both problems are getting worse. I could only see

Shola Lawal:

so much without stepping out of my car, so I decided that I

Shola Lawal:

needed to come back with a guide. A few days later, I met

Shola Lawal:

up with David Adeleke, the communications manager for Eko

Shola Lawal:

Atlantic City at the time we reported this story. We met in a

Shola Lawal:

huge meeting room with gleaming floors and a tiny model of Lagos

Shola Lawal:

on display. On the walls were different stages of Eko Atlantic

Shola Lawal:

as the city formed.

David Adeleke:

We are in the Eko Atlantic sales office, and this

David Adeleke:

particular place is the showroom. So you can see to my

David Adeleke:

left the scaled down version of the of the project.

Shola Lawal:

David told me that while the storms in the 2000s

Shola Lawal:

directly led to the construction of Eko Atlantic, to really

Shola Lawal:

understand the story of this place, we need to start much,

Shola Lawal:

much earlier.

David Adeleke:

This project started in 2008 but the process

David Adeleke:

that led to the project started long before, started in the

David Adeleke:

early 1900s.

Shola Lawal:

He tells me that the flooding in Lagos isn't

Shola Lawal:

caused only by climate change, but also by another deadly

Shola Lawal:

force, colonization. He says the British dredged the Lagos harbor

Shola Lawal:

more than 100 years ago in. So bigger ships could come into

Shola Lawal:

shore, but when they did that, they changed the natural flow of

Shola Lawal:

the water and the way that it moved the sand. One of Lagos,

Shola Lawal:

most important beaches, Bar Beach, began to disappear, and

Shola Lawal:

then the shoreline began to recede.

David Adeleke:

By the 1950s. I think about half of the beach

David Adeleke:

was already gone, but people didn't really notice, because

David Adeleke:

nobody is standing there over 100 years with naked eyes

David Adeleke:

monitoring the regression of the coastline.

Shola Lawal:

The waters of the Atlantic Ocean were moving

Shola Lawal:

closer and closer to the heart of the city, and the situation

Shola Lawal:

became really critical in the early 2000s. Back then, violent

Shola Lawal:

storms flooded city streets in Lagos, fish poured onto the

Shola Lawal:

roads. Expensive office buildings, formerly considered

Shola Lawal:

prime real estate were abandoned. Some of them are

Shola Lawal:

still standing, marked by water lines. The solution that the

Shola Lawal:

Chagoury Group came up with was to build a huge sea wall and

Shola Lawal:

then fill in the space behind it with rocks and sand. They've

Shola Lawal:

essentially created a barrier island, except it's a peninsula.

Shola Lawal:

They call it the Great Wall of Lagos. It's made from 1000s of

Shola Lawal:

concrete blocks that weigh five tons each. Davis says the part

Shola Lawal:

of the wall that's above sea level is about eight and a half

Shola Lawal:

meters, or around 28 feet.

David Adeleke:

But below sea level, we have at least 10

David Adeleke:

meters, and the wall at its base is over 50 meters wide. The wall

David Adeleke:

is what protects Eko Atlantic and Victoria Island from the,

David Adeleke:

from the ocean.

Shola Lawal:

The Great Wall is about six kilometers long and

Shola Lawal:

still growing. David takes me on a tour around the city in a

Shola Lawal:

flashy black jeep. We get out by the Great Wall and stroll along

Shola Lawal:

the elevated sidewalk. Below us, I can see the blocks that make

Shola Lawal:

up the wall piled on top of each other. The waves are pummeling

Shola Lawal:

the wall, and it appears to be doing its job so far. When it

Shola Lawal:

floods on the rest of Lagos, Eko Atlantic City stays dry. There

Shola Lawal:

are underground drainage systems here that carry the water out

Shola Lawal:

when it rains, and ocean waves haven't cleared the wall, at

Shola Lawal:

least not yet.

David Adeleke:

All of this is done mathematically. It's very

David Adeleke:

technical. They put in all the data that they need to, put in

David Adeleke:

the factor in the weather, and then they simulate ocean surges

David Adeleke:

waves. The structure of the wall was still standing. So that's

David Adeleke:

how we knew that this is able to withstand the worst possible

David Adeleke:

storm in 1000 years.

Shola Lawal:

So just to recap, this wall that is surrounding

Shola Lawal:

Victoria Island and Eko Atlantic. It mimics the original

Shola Lawal:

coastline, yes, and it's unbreakable.

David Adeleke:

Yes, this one is undestroyable.

Shola Lawal:

I'm troubled by David's certainty, especially in

Shola Lawal:

a world that's heating up as quickly as ours. We're seeing so

Shola Lawal:

called "100-year floods" happen every decade now, and there's

Shola Lawal:

just no telling how things could play out when more extreme

Shola Lawal:

weather conditions set in. Still, for some people, Eko

Shola Lawal:

Atlantic City holds a lot of hope. David says, architects

Shola Lawal:

from neighboring countries like Ghana and Senegal are coming

Shola Lawal:

here for tips on how to respond to sea level rise in their own

Shola Lawal:

countries.

David Adeleke:

Because it's not just a Nigerian issue. It's an

David Adeleke:

issue that West African nations are how do we put a stop to

David Adeleke:

coastal erosion? Because people live in these places, right? So

David Adeleke:

we need to find sustainable solutions for them.

Shola Lawal:

But even if the sea wall holds there's a deeper

Shola Lawal:

question of who it's protecting, who this whole community is

Shola Lawal:

designed for. Eko Atlantic has its own power grid, its own

Shola Lawal:

sanitation system, its own housing, malls, schools and an

Shola Lawal:

Olympic sized swimming pool. It's a privately owned and

Shola Lawal:

privately operated community. Meanwhile, in the rest of Lagos,

Shola Lawal:

two out of three people living in informal communities like

Shola Lawal:

Makoko. Eko Atlantic is coming to life in a place where many

Shola Lawal:

people don't have access to piped water, where hundreds of

Shola Lawal:

thousands of people are constantly at risk that the

Shola Lawal:

government will put them out of their homes, but Eko Atlantic is

Shola Lawal:

fully endorsed by the Lagos government. As David and I drive

Shola Lawal:

around, I see just one family that appears to actually live

Shola Lawal:

here. They're white. The only people who can afford Aqua

Shola Lawal:

Atlantic City are Nigeria's wealthiest 1% and foreigners

Shola Lawal:

with big pockets. Talking to David, I get the sense that

Shola Lawal:

something else is at play for him and the developers behind

Shola Lawal:

Eko Atlantic City, something beyond stopping coastal erosion

Shola Lawal:

and creating opportunities.

David Adeleke:

Nigeria needs a project like this. Nigeria is

David Adeleke:

the most populous black nation in the world. There is a symbol,

David Adeleke:

there is a there is a mindset that people attach to Nigeria.

David Adeleke:

And Nigeria needs something like this to bolster its image. And

David Adeleke:

it's not just for public relations sake, but for like,

David Adeleke:

for actual confidence, for something Nigerians need to be

David Adeleke:

able to boast of. And this is what this project provides to

David Adeleke:

Nigeria and Nigerians all over the world.

Shola Lawal:

So for David, Eko Atlantic City represents more

Shola Lawal:

than just a luxury sea wall. I think he truly believes that the

Shola Lawal:

city gives Nigeria, gives Lagos attention on the world stage,

Shola Lawal:

that it commands respect, that it could boost tourism and that

Shola Lawal:

it can become a historic monument someday, a monument

Shola Lawal:

like the Empire State Building or Lady Liberty. This is more

Shola Lawal:

than just a climate solution. It's an image and a story about

Shola Lawal:

what Lagos is and what it will be in the future.

Amy Martin:

Shola, thank you so much for this reporting. It's

Amy Martin:

been a really interesting journey. I want to just talk

Amy Martin:

with you a little bit more about these two places, and I'm

Amy Martin:

curious, as a Nigerian yourself, what do you think about what

Amy Martin:

David just said about the importance of Eko Atlantic in

Amy Martin:

terms of kind of like the image of Nigeria?

Shola Lawal:

Well, I think it's interesting, and I do see

Shola Lawal:

David's viewpoint. But having said that, I don't necessarily

Shola Lawal:

feel the same way as David. Like I said, I understand the

Shola Lawal:

viewpoint, but I just don't think that that level of luxury

Shola Lawal:

is what I need to feel a certain kind of pride in my nation. I

Shola Lawal:

feel pride in my nation just as it is. I don't really need Eko

Shola Lawal:

Atlantic City to feel different. Personally, it doesn't add

Shola Lawal:

anything to me.

Amy Martin:

But it sounds like Eko Atlantic actually has quite

Amy Martin:

a bit of support from the Lagos government. What about Makoko?

Amy Martin:

Do people there have any kind of representation in the political

Amy Martin:

system?

Shola Lawal:

I asked this as well because I was just, you

Shola Lawal:

know, really surprised with the way that the Lagos state

Shola Lawal:

government has responded to them prior to this time, and Baale

Shola Lawal:

Alashe told me that they don't actually have anyone in

Shola Lawal:

parliament or any high ranking official in the state

Shola Lawal:

government, so that actually leaves them quite, you know,

Shola Lawal:

vulnerable. But what they do have, you know, are people that

Shola Lawal:

are standing up for them regardless, after that terrible

Shola Lawal:

incident in 2012 where a man died when the authorities

Shola Lawal:

descended on Makoko to clear it out, we've seen a number of

Shola Lawal:

activists stand up for the community, and one of them is

Shola Lawal:

Nnimmo Bassey. He's quite a popular environmental activist

Shola Lawal:

here in Nigeria, and recently I caught up with him in Makoko.

Shola Lawal:

Nnimmo is very, I would say, anti Eko Atlantic City, very

Shola Lawal:

anti the Lagos state government stance on Makoko, and he told me

Shola Lawal:

in very strong terms why he feels that way.

Nnimmo Bassey:

Eko Atlantic is like the devil's finger poking

Nnimmo Bassey:

fun at the citizens of Lagos and Nigeria and Africa and the

Nnimmo Bassey:

world. Eko Atlantic was a bad idea from the beginning.

Amy Martin:

Wow, the devil's finger, that is quite the

Amy Martin:

indictment of Eko Atlantic City. But I have to say, personally, I

Amy Martin:

kind of see where he's coming from. It's it's just hard for me

Amy Martin:

to understand how creating this luxury community makes any sense

Amy Martin:

when there are so many people in Lagos needing homes and basic

Amy Martin:

services.

Shola Lawal:

Yeah. I mean, you're right, and Nnimmo

Shola Lawal:

actually had thoughts about that too. I asked him about it.

Nnimmo Bassey:

Investment must also include human investment.

Nnimmo Bassey:

Making Lagos, climate proof, climate change proof. This

Nnimmo Bassey:

should be the area of investment. Otherwise, no matter

Nnimmo Bassey:

what you put it today, it's just a waste of resources.

Amy Martin:

So Shola, why do you think the Lagos government said

Amy Martin:

yes to Eko Atlantic City?

Shola Lawal:

Well, the new land that equal Atlantic is built on,

Shola Lawal:

is helping to protect the main Lagos business district. This is

Shola Lawal:

where Lagos is making the most of its revenue from, and it

Shola Lawal:

didn't even cost the government anything. They got a very strong

Shola Lawal:

seawall for free, and now they have this new place that they

Shola Lawal:

can show off to people. It's a win win for them.

Amy Martin:

Yeah, I can see that, but it also looks like a

Amy Martin:

pretty strong step toward a future where climate change just

Amy Martin:

further, kind of divides us into the haves and the have nots. I

Amy Martin:

want to wrap up here by just talking about this overlay of

Amy Martin:

immigration in your story. Baale Alaashe said that a lot of

Amy Martin:

people in Makoko moved there from Benin Republic. Is that

Amy Martin:

right?

Shola Lawal:

Yeah, um, Benin Republic is just actually beside

Shola Lawal:

Nigeria. And you have to remember that when the people

Shola Lawal:

moved here, they weren't moving to Nigeria. They were just

Shola Lawal:

moving. This was a time when the colonialists hadn't come to, to

Shola Lawal:

carve out Nigeria as a nation state, and that is interesting,

Shola Lawal:

because, you know, the Lagos state government likes to

Shola Lawal:

describe the residents of Makoko as foreigners. I think it's a

Shola Lawal:

nice way to push the responsibility away from the

Shola Lawal:

state and say, well, this isn't our problem, because these

Shola Lawal:

people aren't true Lagosians, but because they come from

Shola Lawal:

families that have lived there for centuries, they are

Shola Lawal:

Lagosians. And they really, to me, embody the spirit of Lagos

Shola Lawal:

you know, the spirit of resilience and making something

Shola Lawal:

out of nothing, despite all the issues that they faced, all the

Shola Lawal:

problems, they found a way. And that's something I think should

Shola Lawal:

be celebrated. Sure, I mean, some people there, they speak

Shola Lawal:

their own languages. They might not understand English properly.

Shola Lawal:

Right, it's a different Lagos, yes, but it's not a lesser

Shola Lawal:

Lagos. It's just a different, very interesting Lagos. Makoko

Shola Lawal:

adds to the flavor of Lagos. It. It adds to the uniqueness of

Shola Lawal:

Lagos. It doesn't take away from it. So I think that Lagos state

Shola Lawal:

government definitely needs to rethink their stance on Makoko,

Shola Lawal:

and they already are.

Amy Martin:

Yeah, and I guess if people in Makoko can be kind of

Amy Martin:

disregarded because they're supposedly foreigners, then it

Amy Martin:

definitely opens the question of, what about all the non

Amy Martin:

Nigerians who are going to be buying apartments in Eko

Amy Martin:

Atlantic City?

Shola Lawal:

Exactly. I think when, when it comes down to it,

Shola Lawal:

it's all about that paper money. If you have it, then you have

Shola Lawal:

some kind of legitimacy, even if you're not from Lagos. But if

Shola Lawal:

you don't, then you're vulnerable and you could be

Shola Lawal:

kicked out.

Amy Martin:

Well, Shola, thank you again for bringing us these

Amy Martin:

really important stories. It's been such a pleasure working

Amy Martin:

with you, and I am so glad that you were able to join us in

Amy Martin:

Glasgow for the UN Climate Conference.

Shola Lawal:

It was all my pleasure. I joined you in

Shola Lawal:

Glasgow for my first COp as well. So thank you.

Amy Martin:

And we'll be hearing more from Shola in just a bit

Amy Martin:

when we arrive in Glasgow. So stay tuned.

Eloysius:

Hello, I'm Eloysius calling from Brooklyn. Reporting

Eloysius:

for this season of Threshold was funded by the Park Foundation,

Eloysius:

the High Stakes Foundation, the Pleiades Foundation, NewsMatch,

Eloysius:

the Llewellyn Foundation, Montana Public Radio and

Eloysius:

listeners. This work depends on people who believe in it and

Eloysius:

choose to support it, people like you. Join our community at

Eloysius:

Thresholdpodcast.org.

Shola Lawal:

This episode of Threshold was reported by me

Shola Lawal:

Shola Lawal, with help from Amy Martin, Erika Janik, and Nick

Shola Lawal:

Mott. The music is by Todd Sickafoose. The rest of the

Shola Lawal:

Threshold team is Caysi Simpson, Deneen Weiske, Eva Kalea and Sam

Shola Lawal:

Moore. Our intern is Emery Veilleux. Thanks to Sarah

Shola Lawal:

Sneath, Sally Deng, Maggy Contrares, Hana Carey, Dan

Shola Lawal:

Carreno, Luca Borghese, Julia Barry, Kara Cromwell, Katie

Shola Lawal:

deFusco, Caroline Kurtz and Gabi Piamonte. Special thanks to

Shola Lawal:

Dennis Houkani George Denkey, Kidan Araya and Hassan Yahya.

Shola Lawal:

And special, special, thanks to you, my listener, for traveling

Shola Lawal:

with me all the way to Lagos, Nigeria. Till next time.

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