The popularity of the true crime genre isn't a recent phenomenon. In fact, true crime has been captivating audiences for centuries. From the infamous Jack the Ripper cases in the late 1800s to the modern-day Netflix documentaries.

Listen in as I talk with True Crime Historical Fiction Author Ryan Winter about our fascination with True Crime as well as a side conversation about how dating apps may be destroying our networking abilities. 

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Ryan Winter

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It is almost December, and you're probably nestled

2

snugly into the holiday season.

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Visions of sugar, plums,

gingerbread, and snowmen, but not me.

4

I'm still in spooky season.

5

Truth be told, every season

is spooky season for me.

6

I listen to Ghost Paranormal and

True Crime Podcasts year round.

7

I seek out scary movies to watch at night.

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All alone, no matter what time of year it

is, it's always spooky season in my soul.

9

Welcome to episode 1 73 of This

Shit Works, a podcast dedicated to

10

all things networking, relationship

building, and business development.

11

I'm your host, Julie Brown, speaker,

author, and networking coach, and today

12

I am joined by true Crime historical

fiction, author Ryan Winter for a bit

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of a guilty pleasure episode for me

because we're gonna talk about all

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things true crime, serial killers,

horror, and maybe a smidge of networking.

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My guest today, Hales from South

Louisiana, where he draws inspiration

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for storytelling and uses it as

the backdrop for many of his works.

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And how could you not?

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Louisiana with its rich history,

architecture, voodoo and spiritual

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traditions, Mardi Gras, carnival

haunted locations, swamps and bios.

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It's a location where the past

seems to linger, making it the

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perfect setting for ghost stories.

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Tales of the supernatural, true crime and

serial killers, speaking serial killers.

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Have you heard of the

Axman of New Orleans?

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He was an American serial killer, active

in New Orleans, Louisiana, in surrounding

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communities from May, 1918 to October,

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and the murders remain unsolved.

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This story was the inspiration

for one of Ryan's books.

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Wake The Devil.

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I can't wait to get into it.

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And actually a lot more with Ryan.

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So without further ado,

Ryan, welcome to the podcast.

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ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815:

Oh, thank you Julie.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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So happy to be here.

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Track 1: Let's start

with a simple question.

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ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815: Sure.

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Track 1: Oh, thank you.

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Thank you.

40

Um, I do, I'm, I'm proud of my openings.

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People say they really like the openings,

and I do put a lot of, research into the

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openings for, so thanks for saying that.

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We'll start with a simple question.

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What led you to the world of true

crime writing, and specifically

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what drew you to the story of

this serial killer, this axman.

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ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815:

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Uh, I was living in the French Quarter

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The time, the time, the time and I was

working at a hotel doing concierge work

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and looking for a new writing project.

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And it sort of found me, you know, there's

so many books about haunted history

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in New Orleans in general and I was

combing through all these and some of

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'em were, you know, kind of outlandish.

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Some of 'em were kind of fun and I'm like,

wow, some of these really did happen,

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you know, after researching and all that.

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And new Orleans means they love to talk.

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We love folklore.

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So you have to kind of take with a grain

of salt but I kept seeing the axman

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sort of like a footnote in several,

haunted history books about New Orleans

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and I was, God, who is this guy?

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And I would ask around a lot of

older locals that might have known,

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if they've ever heard of him.

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'cause I mean, this goes

back to World War I.

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and a lot of people I mentioned it to

had no idea what I was talking about.

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So I did a lot of research in this.

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There's a beautiful building in the middle

of the French Quarter, close to where

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I was living, uh, called the Williams

Research Center, beautiful building at

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Everything.

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And on going back to Jesus is on

microfilm there, it's a pretty,

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there's a lot of stuff there.

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, I have found things I

probably shouldn't have.

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But, um, beautiful Bill and I was there

and I was kind of researching and all,

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and the mo I uncovered the more I'm

like, oh my gosh, what is this story?

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So it's sort of found me, and I'll

tell you something funny, Julie.

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The first time I started working on it,

I had the weirdest creepiest feeling.

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I remember when I finally sat down and

I had all these printouts and all that.

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And I remember the first time

working on, and I was living

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right in the middle of the court.

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I lived right on Duma Street.

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I could, I'm so close to Cafe Dumont, I

could smell the sugar like constantly.

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So I was probably high just, smelling the

powdered sugar, while I'm working on this.

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And, I knew I had to do it because

that first night of, of working, I

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almost can hear like a dragging sound.

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And all I kept thinking is an ax

scraping outside of my balcony on

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my little, uh, studio apartment.

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And I said, okay.

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So it's almost like he was, sitting

at the door saying, okay, young man.

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Don't screw this up.

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This is my story, you know, So, and,

and that's how, that's how it started.

89

And from then on, it just me, I,

I couldn't stop thinking about it.

90

Track 1: I was just, I was gonna ask

you, how long did you live with him?

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When I'm writing a keynote, and

a lot of times I write . About,

92

avatars in my keynote.

93

So I always say that those people live in

my brain, like they're, they're my friend.

94

Maybe the X-Men isn't your friend,

but like they are my friend when I'm

95

writing and I wanna do a service to them.

96

When I'm writing a keynote around

an avatar, around a business

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professional, like, how long,

long did he live in your head?

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ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815:

that, that's a very good question.

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Um, since then, I have attempted

to write the book four or

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five times over the years.

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And then of course, um.

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Katrina happened and put a damper

on a lot of things and it took me

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while to, to dig out the notes again.

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And I remember in, I think this was,

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was a very, very cold winter in New

Orleans and I remember hearing the

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ice hit the, the window and all that.

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I'm like, God, it is freezing out there.

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And of course I'm in a shotgun house

and they sit off the ground, so I'm

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freezing my ass off, even with the heat

blasting, and, , my roommate had went

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to work that night, so I'm by myself and

I said, this is probably a good night

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to start working on this book again.

112

And sure enough, don't, you know, I'm

probably a couple paragraphs in and

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I can hear that scraping sound again.

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And it brought back, that

early memory, I'm like.

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What the hell?

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So and I'm, I'm boldly going

into this and I can think in

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my head he's going, okay, bro.

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Second attempt, try to do this.

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Don't you know about, I'm gonna

say probably about midnight.

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I'm, I'm a little ways in

his, I'm spooking myself.

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My roommate comes in and I

jump 10 feet out of my chair.

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And I'm like, oh my.

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I'm like, you idiot.

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He's like, whatcha doing?

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I said, whatcha doing?

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And we just sort

127

of had this moment.

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And it was funny because right

around that time, they had li the

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Lizzie Borden movie came out with,

uh, Christina Ricci, which I love.

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You know, I, I love the story of Lizzie

Borden and, uh, well, you should know that

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it's right there in Fall River, right?

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Yeah.

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Track 1: I know.

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I've been there.

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I've been to the house in.

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ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815:

oh my God.

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I wanna go so bad.

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And I had just read a book about

that, that movie had come out.

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So, I mean, I'm really thinking

about ax murdering man.

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It, it's in my brain and, you know, ever.

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Put it down, come back,

put it down, come back.

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But, , finally around a couple

years later, I had left New

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Orleans to go, take care of my mom.

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She, she was suffering from breast cancer,

so I went down to where she was, which

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is about 45 minutes south of the city.

146

So I'm still in the vicinity,

but not in the city, and, uh, I

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started it again and I, I

felt like I had carte blanche.

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I think he finally said, okay, go And,

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really been dancing around in my head and.

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After the book is published,

I'm still, it still lingers.

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I still feel

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like he's watching, and who is this guy?

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What is he, and why he picked me to

do it, 'cause there's, when I started,

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there was not many books about him.

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I.

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And since there's been, some really

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great good nonfiction books, good

research, which would've been helpful.

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And then he's was mentioned, um, as sort

of a storyline in, uh, American Horror

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Story, the one, coven and all that.

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So I'm like, wow.

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So

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he's getting some kinda mention, um,

which of course they did very loosely.

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But, yeah.

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So

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I was like, oh man, I've gotta do this.

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You know, it's, it's almost like you're

saying, come on, come on, come on.

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So, he's been dancing

around my head since then.

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You know, it's been a long time.

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Track 1: That night that you

just, described with the sort

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of sleet hitting the we windows.

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It was very Mary Shelly of you , the

night she wrote Frankenstein.

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ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815:

Oh, I didn't even think about that.

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Track 1: Yeah, the night she wrote

Frankenstein, because that was a storm.

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They were all,

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hunkered down in the storm

and that was a competition.

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Like who can write the best,

horror story, ghost story.

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And of course Mary wrote it

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ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815:

Sitting around the,

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sitting around the heater

while it's banging.

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So there you go.

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Track 1: yeah.

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Yeah.

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You know, when I think about, true crime

genre as it is today, it can be easy to

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think that it's a new phenomenon, like

it's very recently gained popularity.

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But that's not that, that's not, I

mean, it's been captivating audiences

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for centuries as a genre from Jack

The Ripper to Modern Day Netflix.

187

Documentaries like its appeal

is deeply rooted in our human

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psychology for one reason or another.

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And why, in your opinion, as

somebody who lives in this genre.

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Why do you think true crime intrigues so

many people in to such a great extent?

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ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815: I

tell you what the first book that

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I can remember reading, when I

was a kid and when I was growing

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up, I was able to watch a lot of

horror movies and stuff like that.

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Um, much to , the the disagreement

of my mother who hated it.

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But my aunts and uncles, they loved it.

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You know, they, oh, come,

come watch movies with us,

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?

So I saw this, so my

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poor mother.

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You know, she tried to

pull me away from horror.

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So she gave me the book, Dr.

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Jekyll and Mr.

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Hyde by Robert Lewis Stevenson,

the, the beautiful classic.

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And

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I guess she thought it was benign

enough to make me think like,

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well, it's not gonna be too bad.

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And that was the first time I think the

words, from a book just jumped out at me.

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And, and the book scared

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the shit outta me.

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And I think that's.

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I think looking back on it,

I'm like, why did I like it?

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And it's that sort of innate, human

existence that we try to keep hidden,

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that we know is there, because what

he, you know what Stevenson tried to do?

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He's talking about that.

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He's talking about the dark side

of humanity and how we can be this

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person, but then here's this monster

in the closet, and some of us are

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good at hiding it and some of us.

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Let it roam free, ? And so from the

beginning of time, it's like that.

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And I think to me, that's a great

example of why people think it's,

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it's fascinating, because it, it

is you, it is a reflection of you.

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And that's scary, to know that

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that is part of humanity that

we do kill, or that we do have

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these dark feelings, and I, I

love that it's, it's, there's

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a lot of exploration there.

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Psychology's always been based

on those kinds of things.

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Track 1: Mm-Hmm.

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. Would you be surprised to learn that

of all of the true crime podcasts,

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books, documentaries, 68% of the people

who consume that genre are women.

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68%.

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ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815:

That doesn't surprise me.

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And, and it's funny because, the two books

that I published, the first people to

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buy them were all my aunts and my girl

cousins and all my girlfriend, none of,

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none of my guy friends that, you know,

after finally, you know, and they do read.

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But it was always my aunts

like, oh, I love this.

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I love, they were always my biggest fans.

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They still are.

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It's crazy.

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They would buy them

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up first.

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Um, but, I think you look back on

all these famous, , The, or these

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infamous, should I say, people like

Ted Bundy, Kozinski and all that.

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And some of these guys are

really good looking guys.

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So I think these women see that.

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And it's funny that they're

blinded by this, this persona

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that these people killed people,

you know, and some of them even

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like Ted Bundy, all these women

that love him, but I'm like, he

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killed women, you know, it's crazy.

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So.

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There's different reasons

why I think they're really

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attracted to stuff like that.

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I remember reading an article by

Catherine Rams Lynn, who I really,

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I, I've always enjoyed her work.

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She's a true crime writer

and, uh, professor.

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And she writes about all kinds

of kooky stuff like vampirism

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and ghosts and all that.

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And, she mentions things like,

she talks about that, about,

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um, this sort of a, they call it

the Bonnie and Clyde syndrome,

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Track 1: I think part of it is.

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The need to know why.

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know, I like our, we don't understand.

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We, we who don't have the capability

of doing that, have a desire to

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understand how anybody could do that.

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Which sort of leads me into my

next statistic, which I thought

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was really interesting that.

264

You know, women make up a minority

of law enforcement agents, and

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yet 78% of forensic scientists

in the United States are women.

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ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815:

Interesting.

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I didn't know

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that.

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That's That's

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Track 1: And so, yeah, I think

it's like the women's need to,

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like, I need to understand this.

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I need to get into the

mind of this person.

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I need to know why they did this.

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Or also . Helping the victim like

the victim now doesn't have a voice.

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So forensic scientists will be the voice

of that victim as they try to figure out

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what happened to that person and make

sure whoever did it, is held accountable.

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ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815:

Very, very true.

278

And people always ask, if you

weren't a writer, what would you be?

279

I said, I'd love to be

a homicide detective.

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And for that reason exactly that you

just said, . To be able to clear

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these cases to, give some relief to

these victims and these families

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that, are victimized by this.

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Because, you have this particular

victim that dies, but then you

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have the family that's left with

this, the rest of their lives.

285

And, that's really sad.

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, it's a greedy thing.

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And, um, that's something I've always

wanted to do, and also the, the

288

curiosity of it, just as you mentioned,

the, the curiosity of what makes someone

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tick like that, how does that happen?

290

What, why, how does it start?

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Track 1: Yeah.

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You know, it's funny, I think,

when I think about networking, I,

293

I joke a lot when I'm on stage.

294

That if you don't know what to talk about

in a networking event, just ask people

295

what their favorite murder is, like, what

their favorite unsolved crime is like.

296

I was at a dinner party, uh, yeah,

it's, I mean, it is morbid, but I'm

297

like, I was at a dinner party once

and I said, okay, and I was in charge.

298

I was facilitating it in the

networking, and so I, I said to

299

the entire table, okay, okay.

300

What is one unsolved crime that

. You would give anything to know

301

the answer and like immediately

people are like, JonBenet.

302

Okay, JFK.

303

Like, like people knew exactly

what True crime, what murder, what

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Unsolved mystery literally lives

rent free in their brain every day.

305

ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815: Yeah,

I, I can imagine bringing that up and

306

the room wouldn't be silent whatsoever.

307

You can bring up anything, any kind of

topic and people, uh, but you're right.

308

And it's true.

309

It's, it's always been a

fascination for people.

310

It's, it's so bizarre.

311

I mean, it's, once I started

mentioning, the Axman and things like

312

that, and people, that reading, after

reading my book, they're like, oh.

313

So I started reading books about

Jack the Ripper and Oh, I started

314

reading about, these cannibal killers

in twenties, Germany and all that.

315

I'm like, what?

316

And these are people that

317

don't normally read horror or do that,

but it's like, it opens this Rubik's cube,

318

this Pandora's box of stuff, it's crazy.

319

Track 1: Yeah, we all love to talk

about murder, which is also, I think

320

we should talk about like, let's strike

a balance between sort of our morbid

321

curiosity and ensuring we don't glorify.

322

The genre, as a true crime

writer, how do you balance that?

323

Like I, I, I'm morbidly curious.

324

I have morbid curiosity.

325

I'm very interested, but I

do not want to glorify genre.

326

I want to, I want to discover it

and expose it, but not glorify it.

327

ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815:

Because at the heart of it, someone,

328

someone died, someone was killed.

329

And so you have to think fantasy or not.

330

that's the reality of reality.

331

That's what happens.

332

And for me, you know, when I, when I

told Wake the Devil, I told the facts.

333

I went in there and I did the research.

334

And not at any point do I

say, wow, how wonderful.

335

He had this great power.

336

No, he was terrifying.

337

And that's how I painted him.

338

And my main character, the

fictional part of the book,

339

'cause it is historical fiction.

340

Um, I made it a young Italian boy who's

sort of walk, you know, walking through

341

all these events because that's who he

initially started killing was, members

342

of the Italian community . And just to see

the fear and, just to walk down the street

343

and think, wow, I could be next kind of

point, I always kept the victims in mind.

344

I even went on one point a few

years ago, I was visiting, new

345

Orleans from Mardi Gras and, uh, I

had some friends from Canada and I

346

was telling them the story and all

that and they had bought the books.

347

Of course it came up and I said, you

know, the graves are still there and

348

you know, the locations are still there.

349

I went to the graves there and

just to feel that sort of, that

350

humanity, that loss, of what really

351

happened.

352

So, you have to see it from the point

of view of the victims, how that would

353

feel, the terror, things like that.

354

And, that's how I try to get around

355

that, yeah.

356

Track 1: Mm-Hmm.

357

. Um, to switch gears just slightly,

like yesterday, I posted a video on.

358

LinkedIn or Instagram, I can't

remember, about, hey, we gotta get

359

out there and do in-person networking.

360

Like, we gotta take off our yoga

pants, put on big girl pants,

361

put on our shoes and get out

to in-person networking events.

362

And you sent me a message and

you were like, this, this.

363

Rings with me because none

of my friends wanna go back

364

out into the world right now.

365

And you said, you mentioned something

about you are writing a new book

366

that also might sort of dovetail

nicely with this conversation about

367

getting back out into the world.

368

Let's talk about that a little bit.

369

ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815:

Yeah, absolutely.

370

I've noticed, I mean, since, uh,

COVID I find people fall back into

371

that comfortability, like, oh yeah,

you know, let's stay home now.

372

I, I really wish there, there was

some way we can start dragging

373

people back out again because no one

wants to go out and everybody I know

374

it's, well, I'm playing video games.

375

I'm watching Netflix.

376

I'm like, . My gosh, how about we

just go out, we can go to the movies.

377

It's sort of like the gay, dating

scene right now and everything's

378

just seems to be on apps and

it's driving me nuts because,

379

you know, you text, text, text,

text, but it doesn't mean anything.

380

After a while everybody starts

381

to sound like an AI robot,

you know, that's not any fun.

382

You don't know who you're

talking to, you know, , you know,

383

it's like, I get that and I love it

because I would talk to people, I'm like,

384

Hey, today I'm gonna write my book,

blah, blah, blah, and the answer's like,

385

wow, I'm glad you're writing your book.

386

Good for you.

387

I'm like, Ugh.

388

Not even ask what it's about.

389

Nothing.

390

You know what I'm saying?

391

It's this weird sort of,

392

you know, distant kind of coldness

and I don't understand that.

393

And it's very prevalent right

now and it's driving me nuts.

394

People will talk and they'll be on

these profiles and they don't even

395

call you, they just want to stay here.

396

So it's like, well, how

about we talk on the phone?

397

How about we meet up?

398

No, no, and I don't wanna do that.

399

I'm like, well, you know, it's like,

this is, this is a dating app, you know?

400

And so it, it's things like that.

401

So, you know, it's, it's

this crazy distance now.

402

And, um, It, it bugs me 'cause it

feels like I never see anybody anymore.

403

Even like some of my closest friends,

404

all they wanna do is text.

405

I'm like, why are you texting

me these huge paragraphs

406

when I can just talk to you?

407

You know?

408

And I, you know, maybe I'm old school, but

409

Track 1: Right.

410

ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815:

there's some disconnect there.

411

And I don't like the way it's going.

412

And so this, um.

413

I basically, uh, did a sci, I'm

doing a sci-fi story, and it's, it's

414

around, um, that concept of this

young man who's constantly on these

415

apps, never wants to meet anybody.

416

And so I, I, this, this book kind

of touches upon that and it has

417

a bit of a sci-fi bend, but, um.

418

This young man is sort of this person

that I see on these apps all the time.

419

And it kind of makes me think,

why, why did they think this?

420

Why is this like this?

421

Track 1: You've hit on something here

with this, this gay dating app as a

422

microcosm of just the general population

and way in the way we communicate now

423

or the way we lack of communicating now.

424

Um,

425

I was married before match.com came out,

so I have never been on a dating app.

426

I didn't, I don't know whether

you swipe left or right or up

427

ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815: You're

428

Track 1: I don't know how it works.

429

ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815:

you're, you're one of the lucky ones.

430

Track 1: Yes, yes.

431

ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815: you.

432

Track 1: say, how did you.

433

ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815: ai.

434

Track 1: Yes.

435

When people say, how'd

you meet your husband?

436

I said, the good old fashioned way.

437

Hammered in a bar.

438

Like that's how you did it like,

and there was no false advertising.

439

I knew exactly what he looked like.

440

I knew how tall he was.

441

I knew what he sounded like.

442

I knew what he weighed.

443

Like there's no you.

444

He was right there.

445

ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815: Exactly.

446

No filters.

447

I mean,

448

you can't, you can't fake it.

449

You are, and see, I

450

Track 1: No filters.

451

ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815: You

know, the sound of someone's voice,

452

even, you know, just, just to even talk

on the phone or video chat, come on.

453

And if it's one little flaw

and boom, they block and you

454

never hear from these people.

455

And to me, I, they don't, I

don't think a lot of people

456

understand how psychologically

damaging that is, just, especially

457

some of these young guys, you know,

I, I try not to block anybody unless

458

Track 1: You know what?

459

I think you,

460

ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815: rude.

461

Track 1: I think you're really

opening up something here,

462

because I'm doing a lot of.

463

Uh, talking to colleges and universities

about networking and business development,

464

relationship building, and I had never

thought of the social ramifications

465

of blocking, of whatever people are

doing, swiping left on you and you don't

466

hear from 'em of ghosting, of cancel

culture on people's abilities to feel

467

like they can build relationships.

468

I think there's something here.

469

ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815: Yeah,

and it's, it's funny because you get

470

into these really great conversations

and you might even video chat maybe once

471

or get on a phone call and everything's

going great for maybe two weeks.

472

Boom, they disappear.

473

You know, I don't understand that.

474

Track 1: Yeah.

475

Yeah.

476

Well, I'm glad we ended on this talk.

477

I, I mean, yes, true crime.

478

My guilty pleasure.

479

Yes.

480

I fully admit it.

481

Obviously networking is my love,

so I'm glad we could meld the

482

two together in this interview.

483

ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815:

Yeah, that's all.

484

Well, you're a whizz, Julie.

485

I mean, come on.

486

I expected nothing less.

487

You're a maze ball.

488

So I knew, I knew you'd

spin it some kind of way.

489

You're, you're, that's just what

490

you do,

491

Track 1: Yeah.

492

Well, thank you joining.

493

I really enjoyed this conversation.

494

Hey, thanks for taking the time to listen.

495

Be sure to subscribe to the

podcast so you never miss a tip.

496

And remember, you can unapologetically

be who you authentically are

497

and still be wildly successful.

498

That's a fact.

499

See you next week on This Shit Works.

500

Hey, thanks for taking the time to listen.

501

Be sure to subscribe to the

podcast so you never miss a tip.

502

And remember, you can unapologetically

be who you authentically are

503

and still be wildly successful.

504

That's a fact.

505

See you next week on This Shit Works.

506

ryan-winter_1_11-07-2023_101815:

Oh, me too.

507

Thank you for having me.

508

Thank you.

509

This has been great.

510

If you're a true crime enthusiasts

like me, you're not alone.

511

This genre continues to evolve and

captivate audiences around the world.

512

But we have to remember to approach

it with a sense of responsibility

513

and empathy for the real life

people and stories behind the cases.

514

Empathy.

515

That may actually be why women are

drawn to the genre in the first place.

516

Some experts argue that women's interests

in true crime may be connected to females.

517

Generally higher levels of empathy.

518

Dr.

519

Howard foreman or forensic psychiatrist

at Montefiore medical center.

520

Said that empathy may lead to true

crime, being more interesting to women

521

than men simply because if you empathize

more with the victim, it may be more

522

relevant to you in more gripping.

523

Also.

524

Higher levels of empathy and

women may also trigger a greater

525

, curiosity, but the backgrounds

of the killers and the criminals.

526

Also true crime stories, often

center on the quest for justice.

527

We all desire a world where the bad guys

are caught and the innocent are protected.

528

The journey from the crime

to justice for that crime.

529

Is a compelling narrative arc that

provides closure and reassures

530

us that the system can work.

531

It's a powerful storytelling element that

taps into our sense of justice and order.

532

Whatever the reason our fascination with

true crime doesn't seem to be waning.

533

And unfortunately, there doesn't

seem to be an end in sight to the

534

commitment of these crimes either.

535

Not an easy transition, but okay.

536

Onto the drink of the week.

537

Which just goes to show that

this genre is everywhere.

538

There is an actual book on Amazon

called mixology and murder cocktails

539

inspired by infamous serial killers,

cold cases, cults, and other

540

disturbing true crime stories.

541

And this recipe I'm featuring

is from that book, it's called

542

the blood and glove cocktail.

543

Named after the incredibly frustrating OJ

Simpson murder trial that was practically

544

determined by one bloody glove.

545

Remember if it doesn't fit.

546

You must acquit.

547

Here's what you're going to need.

548

Three, four sounds of scotch three,

four, sounds of sweet for Muth

549

three fours, ounce of cherry liquor.

550

Three-fourths.

551

Oh, Jay.

552

Got it.

553

When Jay.

554

Poor all ingredients into a

cocktail shaker with ice cover

555

and shake for about 20 seconds.

556

Strain into our martini glass

and serve with an orange peel.

557

All right, friends.

558

That's all for this week.

559

If you like what you heard

today, please leave a review

560

and subscribe to the podcast.

561

Also, please remember to share the podcast

to help it reach a larger audience.

562

If you want more Julia brown you can

find my book this shit works on amazon

563

or barnes and noble You can find me on

linkedin at julie brown pd just let me

564

know where you found me when you reach

out I am julie brown underscore bd on

565

the instagram or you can just pop on

over to my website julie brown bd.com.

566

Until next week Cheers