This week I'm on the hot seat! Danny Levy, Managing Director Asia & ANZ at Money20/20 invited me to his pod "Digital Transformation and Leadership".

We start with a quick intro and icebreaker questions, the work we are doing at Big Pay and we then deep dive into talking about money! We discuss how to bridge the gap and get people to open up about their financial struggles, the challenges I see with the unbanked, and close off with advice to people who are just starting out in the Fintech industry

If you enjoy this Purpose Driven FinTech episode it would mean the world if you subscribe and give it a follow so that we can have more impact. Remember to connect in YouTube or LinkedIn to keep the conversation going.

Let’s dive into it!

👉 You can find Danny here

1. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danny-levy/
2. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/digital-transformation-leadership-podcast/posts/?feedView=all
3. Digital Transformation & Leadership Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/4NSxmkUKynXRQZZulbPalG

👉 And you can find Monica here:

1. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/monicamillares/
2. YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@moni_millares
3. TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@moni_millares
4. Website: https://moni-millares.mystrikingly.com/

If you enjoy this pod, please follow and leave a 5 star rating on Spotify and a review on Apple podcasts

Questions:

1. How to bridge the gap for people to discuss money?
2. What are challenges facing 1.5 billion unbanked adults?
3. How to build neobank from scratch in Southeast Asia?
4. What is the future of FinTech and why is it human?
5. How to create safe spaces for money conversations?
6. What is financial wellbeing for underbanked populations?
7. How to start a career in FinTech industry?
8. What is the role of community in financial education?
9. How to transition from startup to scale-up in FinTech?
10. What is product leadership in digital banking?
11. How to create psychological safety around money topics?
12. What are barriers to financial inclusion globally?
13. How to build product playbook for growing teams?
14. What is upward mobility for unbanked customers?
15. How to collaborate to solve unbanked problem?
16. What advice for newcomers to FinTech industry?
17. How to avoid analysis paralysis in FinTech career?
18. What is the role of mobile adoption in banking?
19. How to build trust in financial communities?
20. What is BigPay's approach to financial inclusion?

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For inquiries about coaching, collabs, sponsoring the podcast or creating or editing your podcast email Monica at fintechwithmoni@gmail.com

Disclaimer: This episode does not constitute professional nor financial advice and does not represent the opinion nor views of my current, past or future employers. The guest has agreed to record and release our conversation for the use of this podcast and promotion in social media.

This episode was first released in May 2023 at Digital Transformation & Leadership Podcast with Danny Levy - https://open.spotify.com/episode/1xSarHexfLY8GSpmNcCKwj

She believes in financial safety for all and that the future of FinTech is to make FinTech more human. Monica moved to Malaysia as part of Big Pays founding team to help launch and grow what is now one of the fastest growing neobank. In Southeast Asia with 1.37 million transacting users prior to Big Pay, she steadily progressed from junior analysts in big brands like Visa and Bartley Card to being one of the first joiners in UK Challenger Tandem Bank.

Monica, welcome to Digital Transformation and

Monica Millares: Leadership. Hi Danny. It's my pleasure being here. Thank you so much for the invite.

And that's how we got connected as well. So really good to have you on to, to kickstart season four, and I know it's gonna be a fantastic episode.

Monica Millares: Thank you. I'm honored to be the first guest of the season.

Monica Millares: Yes. So I am Monica Mijares. I'm originally from Mexico, but by now I'm like a global citizen. Uh, so I lived in the UK for nine years. Then I've been in Asia for almost six years. Mm-hmm. And for the past seven or so years, I've crafted myself, um, entrepreneurial career building neobank from scratch. So I was one of the first joiners in Tandem Bank in the UK when FinTech was just getting started.

Okay. And that was like the foundation of my FinTech career. And then a few years later, this opportunity came up to move to Malaysia and build one of the very first digital banks called Neo Banks in the region. So I've been with Big Pay since the very, very beginning. Uh, my expertise is product. So I, I consider myself like the mom, the mom of like, I build a product from scratch.

Danny Levy: And how have you found that shift between being one of the first people on the ground and now the business is growing? Uh, it, it takes a bit of a change in mindset, isn't it? Is that It is. The company does get more

Monica Millares: established. It is. And I love it because like when you start the company, you're very hands-on.

I'm still very hands-on, but it's like very rough, uh, start to be, you don't have any resources. You don't know what you're doing, and you properly don't have a team, so you're doing everything and anything. And then over time I always say like, oh, this company changes every six to nine months. I feel like I'm in another company.

Not just how two or three people do one discipline really well, but how do we embed that across the organization so that everyone can grow, uh, and do like great, great work in the organization. So it changes, it changes all the time. And I think that's one of the most exciting things from, for being in a company for such a long time from scratch to to like big player.

And definitely it's a mindset shift. Always need to adapt. Adapt, learn, adapt. Yes. And have resilience. Resilience

I just wondered a, a big pay, like what does an average day look like for you and, and what are kind of your key responsibilities?

Monica Millares: There's no average day for me, so you're right. Yeah. Like product can mean so many different things for different people. For some people, product means we're building an app.

For me, product means we need to, we are serving our customers. Mm-hmm. So we are solving customer problems. We need to understand that we're customers and then go and build. Something, a solution for them taking their context and their lives into account. We're not building an app. We're building a solution for customers.

Are the operations teams ready? Fraud, compliance, legal, every single part of the organization needs to be ready to launch. It's not just. Launching an app. Yeah. It is end to end. And of course, like reporting, um, finance, profitability, like it's properly end to end. So it is very exciting to be in product at

Danny Levy: this time.

Very exciting, changing mindsets and, and winning hearts. So everyone's ready to, ready to go by this time? Yes. I,

Monica Millares: I, I think, I think you, you put it the right way. Yeah. It's like, It's not only about the thinking and the process and the work, but it's the hearts. And I think that's one of the things I love about big pay.

Like we have a very big heart. Yeah. We all love what we do. So that's reflected in the day to day. Like I love the team and uh, I think it's because of that, because we, we put our hearts into what I, we do.

Five to be exact. So, Are you ready?

Monica Millares: I'm ready. Okay. Nervous but ready. Drum roll.

Danny Levy: Here we go. Monica, what is your strongest skill?

Monica Millares: Oh, I'm a people's person. I bring the best out of people. I get them excited about what we do. I get excited about what we do. Nice.

Danny Levy: And that's it. How, how would your friends describe you?

Monica Millares: Uh, energetic, kind with a big heart and a lot of light.

Danny Levy: I'm sensing a pattern here. Um, have you ever met one of your heroes?

I'm seeing someone Sinek. I spoke with someone Sinek, he's signed my book. You know, like I had many of those moments, but I think over the years, and this is going to sound cliche, but I think my two heroes that I did not meet because of a book mm-hmm. Is two heroes that they were my bosses. Okay. My two ex bosses in tandem, Ricky, Nick, they, over the years, they kind of played that figure of a hero because they trained me basically.

So it's much more than I met a hero from a book, but it's like these two people in my life became so influential that it's like I respectful. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Monica Millares: Yes. I think it's not just one book, so I have a story for you. Okay. Like, when I moved from the UK to Malaysia, you know, I'm packing and everything. Mm-hmm. My friend was like, are you really taking your books? I had like a hundred or 150 books in, in my room, and I was like, my answer was like, they are my friends.

Yeah. It's like they are coming with me. So yeah. I, I like studying, I like learning, so. I cannot tell you like these one book changed my life. It's more of all of these books became my friends over the years and I love them all. Yes,

Danny Levy: really like that. It that it's an investment, isn't it? Making time to read.

Yes. Not the other way around. Um, what is the best place you've ever traveled to as a, as a global citizen?

It's, it's a, it's not that touristy jet. It's by the Ung River. It's like very virgin. But at the same time, like that, in that trip I did, I spent a day with the elephants. Okay. In a sanctuary in the jungle. This is not like the, the very touristy, uh, sanctuary. Mm-hmm. It was more like freestyle. So basically I went checking with the other funds.

Like I, I spent a day hanging out with them and that was up. Absolutely awesome. Like one of the best life experiences.

Danny Levy: Amazing. Wonderful. Wonderful. I've only, I've only spent about 45 minutes in Laos when I did the, the golden Triangle in Thailand. Yes. Sounds like I need to, you need to go back time. Yeah.

Really, really excited to get into it with you. Um, so just to kick us off, I thought it'd be nice if we could talk, if you could talk about the work you're doing at Big Pay and how the topic today aligns with the impact that it will have in Asia.

Monica Millares: Yeah. So big pay for anyone that doesn't know us. Um, we are a neobank, let's say.

Mm-hmm. And then our mission is to elevate people's lives, right? Yeah. To kind of like take Southeast Asian. It's like people are under financial stress worldwide. So our job is to say, how can we help you? Create the life that you want, one transaction at a time, you know, like from your finances as such. So that's the work we do as an organization.

I came from Mexico, living in the uk, and then when the opportunity came to move to Asia, I was like, oh, actually Mexico and Malaysia are quite similar. Both of them are developing countries, emerging markets, and then they share common traits. And one of the things that I saw in Mexico since growing up, it was like, Hey, there's a lot of inequality, for example, there's a lot of opor and that inequality is bad.

Financially speaking, because then when people are financially stable, strong, have better control of their money, then their whole life and the, and the, not just their life, like the life of their families and as such of the community as such. Improves our world. So I think the, the role that we play is way bigger than just financial tools.

It is having real impact in people and then having real impact in society as a result.

Um, it seems like everyone's under more and more financial stress. Um, Interested kind of, again, going back to the last point, but also kind of getting your thoughts on this and, and what that means for kind of middle class, but, you know, working class and, and, and everyone in between.

Monica Millares: Yes. So I think when I want to make reference to like two concepts.

Mm-hmm. One is financial inclusion that basically discovers people who are not properly. In the banking system, let's say. Mm-hmm. Actually, V CG Boston Cons Consulting Group and Q E D, they just released, um, report on the future of, of finances such, it's called Reimagining the Future of Finance. Yeah. And basically in the report they say that roughly 80% of the population is either underbanked or unbanked as such.

Okay. However, I think in the past five years or so, the other concept is the unbanked. When the FinTech were starting, let's say in the uk, we were like, Hey, banks are not doing a well, a good job serving our customers, right? Like people are getting all these fees. Um, And that's it. But it was like when FinTech started, that narrative was like FinTech versus banks.

So for example, you and, and, and the impact is I, as a human, I am living under constant stress, financial stress. And then the impact is I am not living my best life. And if we want to evolve as a society, we need to grow people. We need. We need to give them like the space to create, right? Like to live life with dignity, not life with stress.

Yes. No, that makes a big difference. But even if you did, this is like a major expense, right? So of course you're going to look out of after your family, you're getting in debt now to pay the hospital and then month and month for the next six to nine months, you're playing catch up. Mm-hmm. And then the impact that it has on the, let's say the breadwinner Yeah.

Of the family. That is huge. And therefore the impact that it has in the whole family is huge. So I just think that, um, By us doing good financial services. Mm-hmm. We impact society about, like, people are genuinely under financial stress and that's one part. But the other one you have the, for example, the travelers.

But with all these increase in the cost of living and salary is not going up, you're like, oh, I cannot, I can, I cannot do that anymore. I need to focus on my day to day, and I feel restricted as such. Hence, FinTech, well, financial institutions, we have a responsibility to help people because there is research across the world that it is not about the amount of money that you make.

It's not a, it's not about releasing a budgeting app. Like budgeting app exists since I'm a kid. Mm-hmm. It is about, Putting those tools in context of people to help them have behavioral change.

Danny Levy: Thanks for unpacking all of that and talking, talking us through it. Um, I just wanted to ask you a question and, and this can be quite a taboo topic, can't it?

I mean, even as everyone's kind of in the same boat, I guess, with a lot of these pressures and. Under increased kind of financial strain and stress and having to make sacrifices or, um, you know, really getting landed with unexpected bills. You, you gave the hospital example and that can really kind of knock you back, right?

I just wondered how do you kind of bridge that gap? How do you get people to, to, I guess, open up about it or, or to make it a priority?

Monica Millares: That's a great question. Um, so there's a lot of, and you is the right word. There's a lot of taboo around money, and then it is taboo because, well, there's a lot of limitings around money as well.

So it's like if you make a lot of money, Oh, you're rich. Yeah. You don't make a lot of money. Then you're like, oh, you're poor. So it's like, oh,

Danny Levy: sometimes some of the people with the biggest houses and the Gucci belts and the, the flash cars actually, they're the ones that are in the most financial distress.

But of course, Someone is going to pay for the bill, right? Yeah. And then this someone pays, and in theory, he or she needs to go back to the friends and ask them to pay them back. Okay? That is something you do not do. Like it is embarrassing to ask your friends for money. So that's a very specific use case and people do it.

So now technology is bridging that gap because then you have the QR code or request money, and then it's like who you removed the awkwardness about money. That's an example on how the taboo reflects in day-to-day life. But the other challenge that I see is given that we do not talk about money mm-hmm.

Of course that is hard, but there's a lot of shame around the, the topic of money. People don't want to talk about it publicly. That I'm in debt. Yeah. Or that I'm overspending. Maybe I may not be in debt, but I'm not saving. Or maybe. I, or maybe I am not, I'm not ready for retirement, right? And, and I have all this like, anxiety around the future, about retirement.

It's like, it's very personal. It is.

Of trying to keep

Monica Millares: up. Yes. So it's very emotional. Mm-hmm. And, and with emotional, I mean, it's like emotionally charged. Mm-hmm. And usually it's not in a positive way, so it's negatively emotionally charged. So the role of fintechs and the role of financial services, in my opinion, is to start building trust.

Mm-hmm. To start creating a safe space to talk about money so that then people are like, oh, it's okay. Right. Like sometimes, It happens to me. Let's say when I am doing, uh, user research and I dunno, I'm in a group with different people and we start talking about how they manage their money. Yeah. The next time that it's my time, like in Monica's personal life, the next time that I'm managing my money, I'm like, oh, let me try that thing that he said, you know?

And psychological safety apply at mass market global level. Yeah. So that we have a change in consciousness so that then people can really talk about money in a free of judgment way. Yeah. Therefore, when we do that mindset change, everything changes. It's not about technology. It's not about product, it's not about tools.

It's about mindset change. It's about humans again. Yeah.

Danny Levy: Do you, do you see, I mean, I guess either face-to-face or over digital platforms, does that exist at the moment? Do you think there are these safe places where people can come together and share openly and honestly and get the best advice? Or is there still, is there still some way to go?

Yes.

Mm-hmm. And then in these communities, whether it does. Is, uh, face-to-face groups or if it's just a WhatsApp group that I'm even part one of those, uh, WhatsApp group. Yeah. You see how people start talking about their goals and their challenges and it's like, Hey, I have problems with my teenage daughter.

Let's say it's like 100 people group. Mm-hmm. But if we were to be able to replicate that, That could be awesome. And I think we have, this is like Greenfield. We have not done that.

And it's something similar. It's a, it's a safe space. It's a private group. They come together and they share case studies and real life examples and have open conversations. And it can be extremely powerful to do that in that kind of environment. But I think there, there is a bit of a gap here, isn't there?

Monica Millares: Yes. And I think the secret, not the secret, the challenge mm-hmm.

For this community is going forward is like, hey, creating them and create that trust. Why do I want to open up to talk about my money? So that's key. But the second challenge is like these communities, they thrive because they are based on a very niche type of person. Yeah, so my persona is different to your persona and then it's uh, and it'll be different how someone from rural Africa talks about their money versus someone in the UK or someone in Japan, or someone in Singapore or Mexico.

Agree. Yeah. Something along those lines. Yeah. This is a very good conversation, by the way. I've never talked about that before. I'm like, oh, this is good.

Danny Levy: Thank you. So I, I, I wanted to bring it back as well, Monica, because you touched on the unbanked and you were saying that it was the underbanked where Big Pay had had its lens kind of.

Targeted on, and, and now the unbanked is, is becoming more important. Um, interested to just maybe go a little bit deeper there on some of the challenges you see with the, the completely underbanked and, and how you kind of move them forward in terms of their upward mobility.

Monica Millares: Hmm. So I am quoting a report from, uh, P C G and based on the World Bank.

Mm-hmm. So there's 1.5 billion adults that are. Unbanked.

Danny Levy: Yeah. Amazing. That's

You know, like Yeah. Go to uni or any education. Yeah. And travel and build a business and have credit and you mean,

Danny Levy: you mean all the things we take for granted? Exactly. Yeah.

Monica Millares: These 1.5 billions of unbanked people. Mm-hmm. They're a huge. Opportunity, not business wise. Well they are, but like social capital wise, like we have 1.5 billion people who have not tapped even the basic of their potential.

Yeah. Um, so the billion dollar question is how do we bring the unbanked onboard? I. And I think the answer is collaboration. Okay. There is no way one single institution is going to do this on their own. It's a huge problem because it's not just about giving everyone a bank, right? It's about educating people.

Is it like, do they live in communities without electricity? Mm-hmm. Water, basic sewage. Do you know, like Yeah.

Danny Levy: Yeah, yeah. They might not be technology, uh, literate as well. Right? They might not know, even know how to, to get onto the internet, use a smartphone and access a digital

Monica Millares: bank. Yeah. I would challenge that because like adoption of mobile phones worldwide is about 80%.

And we've seen this happening. So in Malaysia? Mm-hmm. During Covid, uh, the government, the Ministry of Finance, they did an amazing initiative where they were basically giving, giving funds to the Jews. But what they did is they did it, they distributed the funds through the top five wallets. Okay. Including us.

Right. Uh, and then basically not only we, they were giving money to young people, but they restricted how the money could be used so you could not just go and take it out of the atm, like there were certain categories that you could use or not use the money. And I bring that as a reference point because what it showed was that we had an institution as a ministry of finance, we had the fintechs, we had technology provi.

It has been proven that it can be done, but of course you will challenge me like someone listen. They're like, Hey Monica, but that's very expensive. Like, yes. So we need to do the, this is where collaboration comes in because it's not just about bringing them on board, but it's like, we as fintechs, we need to survive, right?

Lifetime value. I'm sure it'll work, but it's like it may not work in the short term. We'll have to test an experiment. So it's like, how do we fund all these, what's the business model behind it? So that's why I say we need to bring the whole industry together to solve this problem and like how we do it.

Again, it's collaboration. Have clear, um, problem statements, understanding what your seed that we're solving for and in a very start to be way. Well, that's the vision. Let's now break the elephant in many slices and then go eat one slice at a time. And each slice we experiment. We have hypotheses, we work together, and that's it.

We have one slice. This is a long term game. And then we go to the next one and the next one, and we start building and collaborating. Yeah. Apply all the principles of building a startup, but at a world level. Yes. Um,

Mm-hmm. I guess just for, for, for fintechs who are listening in and, and there's a difference. There's the big incumbent fintechs and then there's the more nimble fintechs, maybe the newer players, um mm-hmm. That don't quite yet have. The, the, those same levels of funding, how, how, how do you think they need to be thinking about this in terms of the role they have to play

Monica Millares: purpose?

Um, oh, I just recorded a, a podcast episode and it's all about purpose, and I brought, uh, purpose expert to the show. Okay. And basically what he's telling us is we think that we're building this FinTech to solve a problem, and we're differentiating. Ourselves in the world. But if I am a nimble FinTech that's just getting started or an established one and I'm like, Hey, why am I here?

And is this problem worth solving? You know what? We're going to go for all this pain, is the impact that we're going to have, like, you know, like good enough or not, is it worth doing this? So that's the. First thing to think about, it's like, why did you exist? Why are you uniquely placed? Yeah. Yeah. To make a difference.

Yeah.

Danny Levy: You better, you better know that the problem you solve is big enough before you build the company or the product. Exactly. Don't do it the other way around. Exactly.

Monica Millares: Exactly. So that's the starting point. Like have your clear purpose. Mm-hmm. And, and the why you're doing this. But at the same time, you need to be smart.

Is that they both had this sense of urgency, right? It's like, Like urgency, because if we don't, and it's in a positive and negative way, right? It's like if we don't deliver this, like we're going to die. Like we will not have investors like we're gone. So there's, and I think that's the exciting bit about startups as well.

It's not just go deliver delivery, it's like build that, that ecosystem within the company. Yes. And then number two, do focus on implementing. Best practices slash ways of working that supports that journey. So if you're going to build a FinTech, it's like, hey, it is equally important to have, uh, an amazing product machine.

Focus, focus, focus, focus. And probably that's how you go fast and don't be scared of breaking things. That's why the culture of psychological safety is important. Yes. Like you have to break things and you have to learn as you go. Learn as you go, you figure it out. That's why culture is important, because that culture is a foundation of.

The work that you're doing. Yes. It's not evident, but it's like looking back, it's because of that culture that you can build resilience and high performance and continue to go. Yeah.

Danny Levy: When your foot's hard down on the accelerator, things are gonna break and you have to have that, that good culture, don't you?

That that that's okay as long as you, as long as you've learned from that breakage and

Danny Levy: Yeah. But that's how you build excellent companies and, and excellent products. Um, Monica really, really enjoyed the conversation with you. With you. Likewise. Thank you. Yes. So, so many amazing points there for the listeners to take away. And, and I've got a four or five pages full of notes here as well, so I'll be reading up on those afterwards Also.

Um, just before we finish, um, just wanted to ask you two final questions Yes. About your career. Um, the first one is, would you be able to share one life or career lesson with the listeners?

Monica Millares: Yes. Um, comfort zone. Mm-hmm. Comfort zone is the killer. It's not your boss, it's not the economy, it's not the company, it's not your salary.

Probably for you, Danny and I, it's like we were in our comfort zone during Covid, we start to the podcast. Yes. And now we're like, oh, this is. So amazing. Right. I still look back

Danny Levy: on that as being a crazy decision with two small children in the house locked in Exactly. At home. But, uh, why not? And look, look where we are now.

Monica Millares: Yeah. So it's like Exactly. Comfort zone is the killer. So

Danny Levy: I completely agree. It's a be little bit, um, intimidating to be slightly out of your depth, but if you're slightly outta your depth, that's probably the moment where you are learning the most, trying the most new things and, and really pushing yourself forward.

Monica Millares: Get started. Curious. Yes. Because many people get into analysis paralysis. Mm-hmm. Um, so you don't need to get a job in FinTech to start being part of the FinTech community. Yeah. That's what I mean with get started. Mm-hmm. Um, So there's plenty of discord channels. There's plenty of, you know, like, uh, YouTube podcast newsletters.

Get yourself educated, understand the, the, the problem statements fall in love with the industry. Mm, because. For example, sometimes I interview new joiners. Mm-hmm. And when they, when I ask them, so why do you want to join? Right. Or even like, why FinTech? And the answer is, oh, because that's the future.

But then if I could be trying to get into FinTech right now, it's, uh, right now there's no barriers to knowledge. There's so much there out there on internet. So it's like embed yourself. In all this knowledge that is out there in the internet, and then start connecting with people in the industry. Go to the events, you know, like, uh, join the discord channels, talk to people, and then eventually, Basically you will start getting a strong understanding about what the industry is about because we are about helping people.

We're not about launching, uh, technology products as such.

Monica Millares: Thank you, Danny. I am very active on social media. Mm-hmm. So I have a podcast, uh, that is FinTech specific and product specific. So it's, uh, purpose-driven FinTech Building Products with Impact. So you can find a podcast in all the major, um, podcasting channels. Yeah, we'll

Danny Levy: put a link to it in the show notes as well.

So just go to my LinkedIn page and you'll have, you'll find the link to my calendar so you can just. Book time with me.

Danny Levy: Amazing. It's so generous. I don't know. Thank you. Yeah. You're making me feel bad that I don't have a, a calendar where people can book time with me. But if you, if you want to know more on the industry and, and you want to, uh, get to know Monica more, I highly encourage you to, to get in touch.

So thank you for, for tuning in. Thanks for listening to episode one of our season four, and thank you Monica again for, for coming on the show. Thank you, Lenny.

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