Shownotes
On today's episode on Veritas Vantage, Supply Chain Leaders Brian Hastings and Justin Maines sit down with Chadd Olesen, CEO and founder of AVRL, to discuss his unconventional entry into the logistics industry and his work with top brokerages. Topics include automation, change management, and strategies for transforming midsize brokerages into industry powerhouses. Chad shares insights on the complexities of spot bidding, the impact of emerging technologies, and the importance of educating brokers. Join us as we explore how AVRL is revolutionizing the transportation sector and what the future holds for brokerage companies.
The Logistics & Leadership Podcast, powered by Veritas Logistics, redefines logistics and personal growth. Hosted by industry veterans and supply chain leaders Brian Hastings and Justin Maines, it shares their journey from humble beginnings to a $50 million company. Discover invaluable lessons in logistics, mental toughness, and embracing the entrepreneurial spirit. The show delves into personal and professional development, routine, and the power of betting on oneself. From inspiring stories to practical insights, this podcast is a must for aspiring entrepreneurs, logistics professionals, and anyone seeking to push limits and achieve success.
Timestamps:
(00:31) - Chadd's Journey into Logistics
(00:46) - Early Projects and Key Partnerships
(02:06) - Breaking into Transportation
(05:02) - Automation in Transportation
06:13 Growth and Change Management
(07:31) - Solving Problems for Shippers and 3PLs
(14:34) - Future of Technology in Logistics
(19:33) - Challenges and Opportunities in Automation
(21:13) - Intern's Quick Adaptation to TMS
(22:39) - Building a Unique Culture at AVRL
(25:37) - Challenges in Technology Adoption
(27:27) - The Role of Change Management
(33:49) - Client Expectations and Long-Term Success
(37:07) - Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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Transcripts
Justin and I just got done talking to Chad Olafson, CEO and founder of abrl, talking about a couple things. Change management, automation and how to propel your mid size brokerage into a powerhouse.
The reason why Chad is qualified to talk about some of these things is because he's working with the top brokerages in our industry today. Let's get to the show.
Justin:Chad, you run the most mysterious company in logistics, but your background's not logistics. Yeah, like tell, tell us how you kind of got intertwined into this crazy industry.
Chadd Olesen:I'll try and leave as many company names like off the table, but the largest retailer in the world introduced me to a massive intermodal company and kind of like if you like go. Before that my CTO and I built a bunch of BMWs in car technology.
What had happened was a technology company tried to buy us and SAP gave us money to go and not be sold. They essentially wanted us to go to market. And to go to market was to connect disparate systems.
So if you look at companies like an ExxonMobil or a Nike or a Daimler, a lot of times the ERP system doesn't talk to the wms, which doesn't talk to the tms and it creates like massive problems.
Brian:Sounds familiar.
Chadd Olesen:Yeah. So we started doing work like that. We got involved in oil and gas brokerage. We've done a ton of work for most of those top oil and gas brokerages.
They end up operating in this thing called Intercontinental Exchange. And Intercontinental Exchange is called ICE and it's a chat system.
And so if you worked for BP and you worked for Shell, you might swap and you do it via chat.
Well, what ends up happening is you have these oil and gas traders that make millions then taking almost like a codified language and entering into the ERP system. So we started doing that for a lot of these oil and gas companies. Ended up meeting this retailer and the retailer introduced me to JB Hahn.
That was kind of like our intro into transportation at all.
Brian:It's awesome.
Chadd Olesen:And I think that that like a lot of startups, when they come into transportation or logistics, they start with like the smallest players and work their way up. Yeah, like our first customers were top 10 logistics companies.
Brian:Yeah, easily.
Chadd Olesen:Yeah. Like when you think of like our.
Brian:Silver platter, I worked in, I was in Arkansas for a couple years and JB Hunt was the king. I mean it was one of the biggest employers around there.
Obviously you know Walmart's got a half halfway decent name, but yeah, they were, they were one of the Biggest employers in the area.
Chadd Olesen:Yeah. And it's, it's interesting, I think that the brokers and carriers in that region, it's almost kind of like this like little like friend group.
They go golfing together. And so we got introduced to one and then to another, another.
Brian:That's great.
Chadd Olesen:And a lot of our original growth was organic. We knew we were making impact.
t space, it was like February:But we started getting all these inbound from a lot of the like larger logistics companies who are friends or their friends worked there. And we never touched mid market. Like my entire goal at the beginning was like, don't touch mid market. Like let's go after like the top 103 pls.
Brian:Yeah.
Chadd Olesen:And try and solidify that placement. That's actually what led to the marketing piece of like us not marketing and advertising. Yeah.
And we felt like if we started to do that, then all we're going to do is breed competition in versus allowing us to go and focus on like siloing use cases. So like spending time with like spot bidding. Spending time here, spending time here, spending time here.
What ended up happening was we probably came out like three years ahead of everybody else.
Brian:Yeah.
Chadd Olesen:And that's what ended up happening with that. No marketing strategy.
Brian:That's awesome.
Justin:So you got teed up by some big, big players, Fortune 500 companies.
Did you immediately come out and you're able to automate like what you were doing, just back office processes or what was your sweet spot for the transportation industry?
Chadd Olesen:So with transportation, what ended up happening is we were working on. So my background is like voice technology. And what we were doing, we were actually doing it with Honda and East Liberty.
What ended up happening was like they wanted to speak out a process and then find a flag in a default. Like 1.36 cars that leaves the lot is the same. That's problematic from like a schematic perspective.
They fly all these like SMEs all over the country to essentially identify faults in the electrical system.
But if you could literally speak out a process, have that system write all the code for it, you could plug it into the ECU and it would flag the fault. And this is what we were going into market with.
We were like, oh, we can do this and we can do maintenance, inspections and help companies identify those problems early or easier. And that's what I actually went in to that first logistics company to sell and they were like, this is great. Could you automate our spot bidding?
And we were like, I don't know what spot bidding is, you know, and then we looked at it and we were like, oh my gosh. From Surface it like it looks like a super easy problem to solve.
Brian:Yeah.
Chadd Olesen:But it's actually more complex and a lot of people have tried to solve it with robotic process automation tools like UiPath, Automation Anywhere, et cetera. The challenge is, is that these web pages change so frequently that your RPA ends up just being broken all the time if you do it.
So then we were like, well maybe we start focusing on web based automation.
And that's really like what like really pushed us forward was we were like, we're going to focus on this as an industry for time being granted we might go after other industries or we will we work with some shippers. Like we have other like legs that we're going to go after. But right now we have a really like really good opportunity to impact transportation.
Justin:So we're going to be so obviously tech automation, bots, AI, huge hot topic in logistics and transportation. You fell into by accident somewhat the spot bid automation.
Chadd Olesen:Yeah.
Justin: And that's in: Chadd Olesen: That was in: Justin: d how has it transformed from: Chadd Olesen:I mean it's massive. When we look at like our original team, we probably had eight or nine people working on at AVRL during that time.
We're about 120ish people right now, give or take.
Brian:It's awesome. Congrats. Thank you.
Justin:Incredible.
Chadd Olesen:Yeah. And we're really trying to like grow responsible, like. Right. And so like you have to be.
When we like go to our website, like, oh yeah, ABR only brings on like 18 customers per year. Well, if we're successful with them, that's actually a solid growth metric for us. And so our investors have been super happy with it.
Like we're like happy with it but. But it allows us to be like sustainable in a growth pattern, giving our customers top notch service.
My number one thing right now is to help customers with change management. You guys have implemented technology. Implementing technology is easy. The change management on your culture of your implementation is huge.
Brian:Super hard. Funny story. We just implemented a new TMS, I would say about 18 months ago. And I feel like we're just now hitting our stride with getting everybody.
Well, not, not everybody, but majority of people on that Right track. One thing I was going to ask is, you know, even, you know, we talked about the growth you know, kudos to you guys for, for crushing it.
What is like the, what is the main problem that you're solving for these shippers or three pls? Like what is the main problem that you're solving?
Chadd Olesen:I think that like there are main challenges that we're solving. Yeah, I know not everyone who watches this is going to agree with what I think.
I honestly believe that the companies who automate spot bidding, maybe automate tender acceptance for contracted freight, automate other things, they then get to spend all of their time with their shipper. And so it depends on the type of 3 PL or carrier on what the problem that we're solving is. Like one, I'm going to give our customers more at bats.
Right. That doesn't mean that your win percentage going to go up, probably going to go down because we should be looking at more volume.
But what ends up happening is for the first time ever, what you get to do is you get to run network strategy. Right.
So before if you look at a cradle of the grave model or a split model, pod based model, you're really buying for like your own pocketbook as a broker versus an organization. Right.
And if we're trying to be competitive on an rfp, maybe we're okay with lower margin and higher volume from the spot market to build capacity in a specific market or zone, et cetera. And so there's a couple of like plays that we're after. One, we want to give you more at bats. Right. And I think that that's like super important.
The only way to really do that is automation. Unless you're going to staff a ton of people on these boards.
Brian:Well, I think it's like you have a decision to make. Right. It's either you staff a ton of people or you look at automation to perform that service.
Chadd Olesen:Yeah. I think another thing is we're trying to provide better data visibility. Yeah.
We want to make sure that you're able to see like, you know, what are you bidding on? Why are you bidding on it? Why are you not bidding on it? What was the opportunity lost from not participating?
We end up seeing all of these like unique things that happen where like you didn't bid on something under £10,000. Well, what if fuel is really high? Would that change the way that you're thinking about bidding?
And I think when you look at automation and what it does for like the opportunity for a broker to start participating more, we want to help them identify like trends or holes in the shipper's routing guide that we can find like Repeatable patterns in or repeatable business in. So you have like all of that, but then at the same time, we want to go in and help reduce cost.
And the reason for the cost reduction is, you know, if we can automate a specific piece that you don't want, you no longer have to staff, then your cost of serve goes down. So if we can exploit yield and reduce cost to serve at the same time, it creates unique pricing discretions in the market.
That's ultimately what we're trying to do.
Brian:Increase revenue, reduce cost. Yeah, seems like a pretty good model. I like that sounds made up.
Justin:That's impossible.
Brian:Yeah, that's awesome. I think that's one thing that him and I talk about often is how do we automate some of those tasks? How do we get certain things in place?
And you mentioned it earlier upstairs that not necessarily you set it and forget it, but how do you strategically make those decisions on a weekly basis or if you have to tweak it a little bit here or there, you do that and you have some person be the champion or the leader of that group to manipulate that.
Chadd Olesen:Yeah, I think for a lot of the industry, they look at us and they're like outsiders to the industry. They don't realize that, like former GM of pricing works on our team. Some of the old BNSF pricing analysts are on our team.
We have some, like, really smart, talented people on our team.
They ultimately are helping our customers look at their data, get better at data, better at reporting, better understanding where there might be opportunity, et cetera. Our whole goal is that a lot of the pricing tools, a lot of brokers don't know how to use the pricing tools because they were never educated on them.
Brian:Sure.
Chadd Olesen:We really want to help customers understand, like, okay, where do you actually live relative to DAT market rate? Do you buy above it? Do you buy below it? It could change based off of a lot of different things.
KMA is dependent on, like the market, your origin, your destination, like where you have active capacity.
And so for us, we want to like, we're kind of taking like charge of, like, hey, we need to make sure we're educating our customers on these items and seeing that they actually implement them. Otherwise they're not going to be as successful with our tools.
Brian:Well, I mean, I love that education piece because I feel like not a lot of other vendors or partners out there do that where, you know, you're going along in the process, educating the end user on how to do this, how to manipulate some of the data, where you're able to win more spot shipments or you're able to, you know, manipulate those rates and know the market and eventually, you know, win more shipments.
Justin:Also I also think, you know, coming from, I don't think it's any secret that Brian, I came from TQ at this point but you almost take it from granted when you're at a company like TQL and you have access to endless data.
Chadd Olesen:Yeah.
Justin:And endless support in back office that have analysts and know they crunch numbers and they can spit you back a very, very specific RFP that you will.
Brian:Win with 30 minutes.
Justin:Yeah. Companies like ADRL, now you have almost leveled the playing field for mid sized companies like us. Small to midsize I should say.
But our whole mindset with technology is how do we leverage technology to do more with less headcount that's going to allow us to grow as opposed to just higher. Higher, higher.
Chadd Olesen:Yeah.
Justin:We want to be very calculated and strategic with who we hire in terms of talent and then retain that talent but also use that technology to grow and give people the right resources. So you know, leveling the playing field allows companies like Veritas to do then go and compete with the big box brokerages out there.
Chadd Olesen:Yeah. And I think that every brokerage has to be mindful of like how do we grow, you know, 15% year over year without just hiring more and more people.
I don't think the automation is like the end all be all for that but it should definitely be part of everyone's strategy and it should be an augmentation to the human at the end of the day we just want to help educate on our tools so that your brokers, your AES, your pricing team can get better at buying in the market relative to your costs in the market.
Brian:Sure.
Chadd Olesen:And that was like why we took this whole approach of like I give you more at bats, I train you on the tooling, it's your strategy.
And I think that that's like something that will always be core to AVRL because if we're going to work with multiple 3pls, multiple carriers, it has to be their strategy. It can't be like my strategy because I don't understand how you purchase relative to the market.
Brian:Sure.
Justin:I know you've had a lot of experience now like more so recently within transportation.
Chadd Olesen:Yeah.
Justin:Not necessarily your background but clearly you're familiar with the industry. With work with so many companies. Twenty years ago, even when Brian and I started it was all cradle to grave.
We're starting to see that take a backseat and get phased out almost what are your thoughts of the next 10 years? What does that look like in terms of how technology comes into play, but also still including that human factor, it's interesting.
Chadd Olesen:I think that.
Brian:Get at that crystal ball, man. Yeah.
Justin:You have to know the answers.
Brian:Yeah.
Chadd Olesen:Cradle the Grave works exceptionally.
Brian:Yeah.
Chadd Olesen:Exceptionally good. Exceptionally bad. I'll give Scott Friesen credit at Echo for that one because he's literally told me that.
And I think it's so true though, like what ends up happening with Carol Grave models is like the broker or that like team ends up buying for their own pocketbook or like their own workload.
Brian:Yeah.
Chadd Olesen:And there's a lot of opportunity that's left and everyone that we've seen enter in to like our tech that runs like a split model. There's obviously going to be a fight at some point.
Brian:Sure.
Chadd Olesen:But if you look at the data relative, like you buy better with automation and a pricing team running it than a broker all day long.
Brian:Yeah, yeah.
Chadd Olesen:The broker makes like a gut like react like just jerk reaction like, ah, California markets effed like. Well, no, what you did was you're.
Justin:Allowed to cuss, by the way.
Chadd Olesen:Okay. I don't know, the last podcast that I was on, they were like, no cussing my grandpa watches. Feel free.
Brian:Yeah.
Chadd Olesen:That'S like a can of worms that will open up. So I have to be a little bit careful. You and I both.
No, but like when you look at like that model like someone's like, oh, California markets like completely trash. But maybe you booked a load that pulled on Ontario market rate, but it actually was Victorville, California zip and you dead headed 80.
You had someone had a deadhead 80 miles up a mountain across the desert to get there. But the broker doesn't understand why the rate was generated that way.
And so what ends up happening is you get this much more granular focus with automation and the data on it. So I think, I just think that the model has to shift at some point with more technology coming into play. I feel like it has to.
Brian:Yeah.
I think even when you're talking about the cradle to grave and even the broker's gut feeling to pull the trigger also has to deal with lead time or when that load was sent over or what the market is and when the holiday is coming up or whatever that looks like. So again, puts a lot of emphasis on, you know, the broker's experience, their gut reaction, your ability to manage decisions.
And you know, sometimes, you know, I've done it a million times but make a bad decision. You know, when I'm in the driver's seat.
Chadd Olesen:So yeah, and like you look at like tql.
Brian:Yeah.
Chadd Olesen:Like their model works for them.
Brian:Yeah.
Chadd Olesen:And so I think that the model has to be worked for. Like it has to be built for that brokerage. And how it's going to run, I think going from curl to grave to split.
We've watched some of our customers go through it and it's terrible until it's working and then it's good to take a brokerage like that though and to move it. I don't know if that's possible.
Justin:I feel like even since Brian I started over four years, we would try one TMS upgrade, try one Rate tool upgrade, try this, try that. There are so many vendors I feel like that have continued to enter the space and not necessarily a bad thing, but what are your thoughts on that?
Is that something that's going to continue? Is there just opportunity here? Why so many vendors?
Chadd Olesen:Why so many vendors? Focus on rate?
Justin:No, just logistics in general. It's almost a dime a dozen. How do you see that evolving in the next few years?
Is it going to get consolidated or are there going to be bigger players in the game? What's that look like, do you think?
Chadd Olesen:I think the bigger players keep getting bigger. I think what's going to end up happening is the barrier to entry is going to get harder and harder and harder. Right.
So like every cycle you have new entrants that come in and then like people do get consolidated out, et cetera.
I think one of the challenging things that exists is that when Covid happened and so much technology came into the space, a lot of that technology will get ripped out primarily because it drove cost to serve up, not down. And so what ends up happening is like the good technology that persists will stay, but it's going to end, like create a new baseline.
And so if you want to come in and now work with Dollar General, there's no spot portal anymore. It's API. And guess what? They don't even support edi. You have the API tender. And so like what broker?
Like you have to have a TMS to even work with them. Same with tjx, same with Bridgestone.
So like what's ending up happening is like as the shipper shifts their technology structure, the broker has to like respond to that.
What's going to end up happening, it's going to pull that industry up and then like I do believe it's going to be much harder to create new brokerages.
Brian:Yeah.
Chadd Olesen:And so I don't necessarily know if There will be less of them. I think that the bigger players will continue to get bigger, but I think that there will just be less entrants that come in.
Brian:Yeah, I mean, I think you mentioned it earlier, but I think that the brokerages that don't keep up or don't go with the tide on the technology side of it, I do think they're going to get left in the dust.
I think there's going to be so many shippers that are out there that are going to acclimate towards the technology piece that if you don't keep up with it, you're going to be left out in the cold.
Chadd Olesen:Yeah. The strategy that you get to run with certain technologies is interesting. And I don't believe in automating everything.
We've looked at customers who have tried to automate carrier sales and it's like one of the worst things you can do because you lose negotiations. And so you have to like definitely be strategic about what you want to automate what you don't want to automate.
And that might be very specific to a company.
Like, I'm not here to say that today every single company can be successful with automated spot bidding because they're not willing to like put the work in, then it's just going to fail and not work. But the companies who actually do it and put the time in and look at the data and then respond back to the data, they're ultra successful.
But at some point every single company is going to have to do it. And so what a better time to learn digital quoting freight than a down market?
Brian:Because you get more free time.
Chadd Olesen:It's more free time. But like, think about, like in an inflationary market trying to adjust your rates and never have tried it before, right?
You lose money on the table, you buy a shipment, you don't just lose a little bit of money, use a lot of money on it. Like, right. There's a lot of problems.
Brian:I had a friend of mine who worked at C.H. robinson for hell 15. I think it was like 18 years.
And one of the things that he said, and we talk every now and then, probably once a year or so, but he said, and I thought it was pretty good as far as the sentiment, but it's not only the technology, it's the people behind the technology that are pulling the triggers, pulling the levers, figuring out which way to go. And so I think, yeah, I mean, I don't think technology is going anywhere.
Also, how do you implement the right people behind it to pull those levers in? The right fashion.
Justin:Some of these young bucks coming in to.
Brian:They know it.
Justin:I mean they're wizards. They know how fast they pick it up.
Brian:We, we had an intern that literally came in hell six weeks ago and picked up our TMS in like three days.
Chadd Olesen:Yeah, yeah.
Brian:And we're like, hold on. Like all you need to do is watch YouTube videos and you got it. We're good here. Like no, I just get it. But no, but yeah, he's great. Dude's great.
Justin:But I want to. Did you have one more thing?
Chadd Olesen:My only like comment that I was going to make is that technology, like is this constant evolution. And I think that yeah, like a lot of younger people grew up with technology and so yeah, it may be easier to adopt.
Brian:Yeah.
Chadd Olesen:But I do believe that each broker will have to focus on analytics, like moving forward. Like it doesn't mean every broker has to be an analyst.
Brian:Sure.
Chadd Olesen:But I do believe that they have to be able to read data, interpret data, transform that data into act like tend to action.
Brian:Sure.
Chadd Olesen:And what we are seeing with our customers is they almost run like a carrier sales strategy meeting for the automation every week and literally go through the data. And what do we want to adjust and what do we foresee happening? That doesn't mean foresee happening.
With seasonality, trends can also be what's the weather impacts going to happen? What's this, what's this, what's this?
And those customers who like just start to make that part of the culture, then all of a sudden it's just, it's part of it. It's not this like forced thing that you have to do and someone gets mad because you lost money on a load.
Like let's go and look at why that was the case. This is definitely an underlying reason.
Brian:Sure.
Justin:I want to shift more so because I'm curious and fascinated by a few things. I've never really seen anyone throw a one line sentence on LinkedIn and generate so much activity. So we know you're well connected in the industry.
We've met it several times, connected at some events. But I want to talk about avrl, the culture you've built and what's next for you all. And I'd like to start with more.
So like your approach on not really marketing, not broadcasting the name the brand all over social media. Where's that thought process come from? Because it's clearly successful. And where did you learn that?
Chadd Olesen:I don't know where I learned it. When we were coming into transportation, we started looking at transportation, we started looking at companies that work in freight technology.
And what was constantly happening was one company would say that they would do it, and then like, a couple weeks later, all of the companies were marketing that way. And we're like, wow, this could be terrible for us if we marketed what we're trying to do, because all we're going to do is breed competition.
Now, there's a couple of things that happen if I don't advertise really hard to sell against me. If I don't talk about what we're doing, who we're doing it with, it's harder to sell against me.
And so as we started to see it actually work, we were like, wow, we should double down and go, like, deeper into this. Like, almost like an exclusive network that we run in. But when I started writing, I'm pretty outspoken.
And when I started writing on LinkedIn, people started texting me. And what a lot of people don't see about LinkedIn is like, I'll write this post and it will get 0 likes, and I'll get 50 people that text me.
Like, important people in the industry that text me. And, like, I love that. Like, keep doing that. And so I was starting to realize, like, oh, shoot, it has nothing to do with the engagement.
Has everything to do with, like, as long as I, like, just keep pushing, like, pushing what I think other people will connect with me on, like, a different level. And it was never about avrl. I think the moment that I start, like, just posting about avrl, I just, like, lose all of.
Justin:I don't think. I think I've ever seen you post about.
Chadd Olesen: we, you know, we land on Inc:Like, it's easy to get on there one time, two times, three times, like, four times harder. And so, like, stuff like that where I want my team to see, like, I'm proud, but we actually share a lot internally.
Like, we'll have a customer that wins their, like, you know, 10,000th load with the automation. They send us, like, this internal note that gets broadcast internally. And so a lot of, like, our messaging that we have isn't, like, pushed out.
It's pushed, like, in. And what we're trying, like, the culture that we're trying to, like, drive at avrl is I, like, I want to win. Like, we don't want to lose.
Like, we want to win.
Brian:Yeah.
Chadd Olesen:And we Also believe that technology is massively underserved in transportation, and it goes back to the change management piece. Like, if a broker doesn't like technology, they won't adopt it, and then it fails.
And I think that there are probably some great technology companies that have come into the space and they got fizzled out or it failed not because the technology was bad. They just couldn't get it adopted in the industry.
And so what we want to do is, like, we actually want to elevate the industry with more sophisticated tools. So we have some competitors in the space that we, like, won't mention.
But, like, a lot of times they're trying to dumb down their tech to meet the broker. It's not what we should do. We should educate the broker to be better at using more complex technologies.
So if we dumb down the problem, then that doesn't serve anyone.
Brian:No, it doesn't. I mean, two things there. I love the fact that you said we just had a broker that won their 10,000th shipment and we won 10,000ths. That's tough. 10,000?
Justin:I'm not even a 10,000.
Brian:They want a lot of shipments. They want a milestone. Yeah, yeah, A milestone of shipments.
And you broadcast that internally, where you're happy for your customer success because you know that's only going to breed a higher level of client retention. That's awesome.
And also, you know, from an employee perspective or a culture perspective, getting all the people or getting the education piece and we talked about a little bit earlier, but educating the broker.
Chadd Olesen:Right?
Brian:And like, when you talk about, oh, the broker brings in a techno or some tech vendor, they're spending a couple grand a month and then they. Well, they don't use it. Like, oh, we never really used it. Well, whose fault is that? Right? To me, that's the tech vendor.
They need to educate the broker to use their technology to have a higher level of client retention.
Chadd Olesen:Well, like, I'm gonna be speaking at TIO Technovations with three of our customers, and the session is change management.
Brian:Nothing.
Chadd Olesen:And I like, wrote to tia. I was like, look, this is not talked about.
This, like, literally we go to, like, all these events, these technology events, or like TIA or like freight waves, and everyone's just like, it's like a billboard for that company, you know? And I was like, I don't want to talk about avrl. I don't want to talk about the companies.
Like, what's the shit that you have to go through to get, like, the technology implemented? Because it sucks.
Brian:Sure.
Chadd Olesen:Once you get it Implemented as part of the culture, then it's great. And so I think the industry just needs to spend a lot more time talking about change management and like real conversation.
Like it sucks to get your, your, your account stripped from you because you're like, what the hell? I'm like good at buying, Like I'm good at winning freight here.
Brian:Yeah.
Chadd Olesen:And it's not the problem. The problem is, is that we need to like, we need to be bidding as like a company. Like not like you here and you here and you here.
It's like what's our strategy for our entire organization and moving it forward.
Brian:So Justin and I know about change management, but dumb it down a little bit. What does change management mean for the listeners that are out there?
Chadd Olesen:Change management. So I think that there maybe is like multiple meanings for change management. What it means for me is like the change from like one process to another.
I use like spot bidding as an example. Forever the account rep has been responsible for bidding on freight.
Brian:Yeah.
Chadd Olesen:And a company that you guys know like all too well.
The very first time I met with the Procter and Gamble team, they were like walking us through the process and I was like, why don't you use the competitors rates on that portal? And he was like, there's no competitors rates on that portal. And I'm like, click on settings, click here, click here, click here.
And then all of a sudden the new column appeared and it had all of their competitors rates on it. He had no idea because he had adopted that portal from the person who had that account before him.
And so what ends up happening in a lot of brokerage is like your knowledge transfer. Like. Yeah, like knowledge is power and transportation for sure. And there is like a massive like amount of knowledge that these brokers have. Yeah.
However, you only know what you were trained to know or what you've learned from the market. The benefit that we have is I work with 50% of the top 103 PLs. Yeah.
I literally will tell you like what to do or what we want to like help you, educate you on is like what we think is best, what we've seen. But the change management is like going from one process to another. It doesn't just happen overnight.
There has to be like effort that's put into it and it has to stop from start from leadership. Has to be like, this is the model that we're going in now.
And I don't want to say that there's like a ton of weak leaders in transportation, but there's a ton of weak leaders in transportation. Like, they decide to buy and then they don't, like, they don't do the work to like to at least try it.
Brian:Well, I think it's hard. I think it's hard to implement that. And they're gonna. They're gonna get met with friction and resistance from their team.
And they don't wanna have those conversations.
They don't wanna go in and say, hey, listen, I know the way that you've been doing it for the past three years has worked and you're doing well, but we're gonna do this. How much friction will that happen?
Especially with a top earner, a top broker, like, hey, listen, I get it, but we're actually going to move to this direction.
Chadd Olesen:Oh, my gosh. I was so. Do you know Dave Broning at nfi?
Brian:No.
Chadd Olesen:He was a CH guy, Brilliant, like really smart guy. And I've spent a little bit of time with him.
Brian:Yeah.
Chadd Olesen:And we had this dinner that was around like, TIA or something. And he. We were like, talking about like some of the most challenging things that they have done.
And he was like, I've had to fire some of my best earners because they are not willing to adopt technology or not adopt the new processes that we need. And that takes like, massive kahunas to like, do that. Yeah, but it's what's best for NFL.
Brian:A lot of courage.
Chadd Olesen:Yeah, but I posted about this on LinkedIn and I got so much flack. They were like, oh, people are weak leaders. If you're getting rid of like, your like, top employees.
Cause you can't, like, you know, you're not leading them in a way that's done. There are definitely people in this industry that are like, no, I'm not gonna change.
And sometimes change management is like doing what's best for your organization long term.
Brian:Got it.
Chadd Olesen:And going through these, like, process changes in order to do what's best for your company long term. Not like current situation.
Brian:Now we talk about all the time. But like cradle to Grave to, you know, POD model or, you know, the split model. It's like, how do we make this change? When do we do it?
You know, we were born and raised on Cradle to Grave. Right. So that's all we know. But how do we make that change in the future? And when do we do that? When do we rip the bandaid off? It's hard.
So even for us, change management is something that, you know, we talk about very, you know, pretty often.
Justin:Well, it's also, you know, you're always going to have tough conversations. We've had plenty of them, especially with change in technology or processes. But communication is one thing that we can control.
So being upfront about those changes that are on the horizon and laying out the blueprint on the process, the timeline, what's going to look like, how it's going to impact that individual, those things we control. So as long as you're not blindsiding employees, and at the end of the day, if they're not on board, that's tough. Yeah, but we did our part.
We gave them a reason why we're making that change and how it's going to impact the company. And if that's not a pill they can swallow, then spit it out.
Chadd Olesen:And sometimes, like, when we look at transportation, you guys fight, like, a lot of factors. Right. Like, is our payment model appropriate? Right. Like, you start automating, like, spot. Like, who gets paid for that?
Brian:Sure.
Chadd Olesen:You know, but what ends up happening is, like, a lot of, like, split models, appointment scheduling, like, who prioritizes. Is Walmart more important than Costco? Because one's getting scheduled for all the time. Right.
And, like, if your top earner expects that or they're paying, you know, an employee, an employee more revenue or, like, more percentage of their salary, like, that becomes really difficult.
And so maybe it's not just like the change of communication, the change of transformation, but maybe a lot of things have to change with the implementation or the movement of the future of freight.
Brian:Sure.
Justin:One unique thing before we ever decided to move forward with avrl is the conversation.
We had one with Becca, but also Madison, where you all were so clear about the expectations and what the process would look like, where I almost felt like you were trying to convince us not to work with you. Is that something that's in your all's tool belt? Because we were. We heard the expectations, but we were.
Chadd Olesen: Fully on board in:They literally would come on and had four accounts and we charged them, like, a ton of money. And it was like, we. We didn't know that the industry was cyclical. So we didn't know, like, the strategy would change.
We didn't know that there wouldn't be volume in certain accounts like this. Something that we had to learn.
Brian:Yeah.
Chadd Olesen:And my entire goal at this point is, like, if someone signs on to avrl, we're gonna give it our, like, best shot for it to be successful and give them the tools to be successful. But we need Them to also believe that they're going to do everything.
And to be honest, like, when I had Rebecca talk to you, I was like, scare the shit out of them. They still want to go, awesome, let's go.
And we literally have this conversation all the time because automation, the amount of effort that goes into automation from both sides is a lot. And the last thing that I really want someone to do is pay me money. And then like, what? We just don't work together.
And I'm like, wow, thank you for wasting your time, your money. And like, we are left with nothing because this should be a long term relationship.
And we're like, yeah, there's going to be days that are shit and there's going to be like times where like, we lost money on this load. Why? Like, let's go look at that.
But if we've never had that conversation up front, then I kind of look like I'm scamming the industry and I don't want to be like that.
Brian:Yeah, I love that.
I mean, you, you mentioned a little bit earlier, but I think why, why spend the time and energy, even through the implementation process, to jump through all these hoops and then you're not going to keep the client over 12 months or 24 months. It doesn't make sense. And I love that part of it.
Chadd Olesen:Yeah, I think that's something that we've had to learn, but it's something that's like 100% in our tool belt now.
Like, you talk to us, we're going to be like, do we, like we actually have in meetings internally, do we think that this company could be successful with us? Yes. No. We, we've told companies like, maybe go try out another vendor if it works, like, maybe it could work with us. Sure.
But you have to have like the appetite to be like, we want to do this if we're going to do it. We have customers that have seen like insane results. We have a customer that increased net new shipment down by 300% and they're monstrous.
And it can do great things, but it takes a lot of work and I just want people to be aware of that. And so Rebecca was like a key part. Like if I called you and I was like, justin, you know, you gotta like think about this.
You're not gonna receive it the same way. But Becca's been in that seat before. She's used our technology as a customer on that side, worked with brokers.
She knows what it actually takes and what you need to be thoughtful of. She's the best person for that.
Brian:Yeah.
Justin:Well, your team's uber talented, so, you know, props to you and your leadership team. It's been a great experience. We're looking forward to the partnership. Love what you're doing for the industry as a whole. Where can people find you?
Chadd Olesen:You can find me on LinkedIn.
Justin:One liners on LinkedIn.
Chadd Olesen:No, I think. I mean, if you, like, go to our webpage, there's an email. This is like email@ABRLIO. I don't actually know what it is.
If you do Anything@ABRLIO, it'll probably end up on my desk. We have, like, a unique model.
Like, I spend time with most of our customers and it's primarily just to understand, like, what's happening in the market. Like, where are pitfalls? Where can we get better at product? Like, where can we get better at understanding, like, the tools that we need to build?
We're in, like, this constant evolution. And so my leadership team is, like, at the forefront. File a ticket. CEO is going to see it, and we'll, like, push it to a product owner.
I think we have to be like that because of, like, this tech becomes, like, super crucial to someone's operations. Right. Like, if it touches revenue.
Brian:Yeah.
Chadd Olesen:It's important. So, yeah, that's great.
Justin:Well, Chad, we seriously appreciate you coming in town. Maybe see at Technovations.
Chadd Olesen:Yeah, Technovations for sure. I'll be like, I'm going to speak at McLeod event. Trimble Insight, Technovation, Inland Distribution. Like, literally four weeks.
Brian:That's what it's about.
Justin:Chad, we appreciate it.
Brian:Yeah, thank you, guys.