Here’s a classic Would You Rather: “Would you rather be blind your whole life or go blind gradually?” For Lindsey Blankenship (Siegel), she didn’t get to choose, but she has a rare eye disease that is slowly making her blind. As a teenager, she skied regularly; as a 41-year old mom, she has to look carefully at her feet to make sure she doesn’t walk into her 4-year old son. When your peripheral vision drops to 3 inches in either direction and you’re effectively night blind, it’s almost like your skiing days were a dream.

OK, so here’s another one: “If you were going blind gradually, would you rather spend your seeing days going to the Seven Wonders, or watching youth baseball and building a website for people with other ailments to tell their story?” For Lindsey, she chose the latter and happily so. Between mom-ing and soaking up her son’s baseball games, Lindsey has chosen to create ThrivewithDisability.com, a storytelling platform that connects the differently-abled and shares the unvarnished stories of their journeys with the world. 

One last one: “If you were gradually going blind, would it better to live with high hopes or low expectations?” Powerfully, Lindsey has chosen both because she believes it’s the only way to live her ‘normal’ life. Her challenge to us is do the same.

Lindsey Blankenship

[00:00:11] Lindsey: [00:00:11] My motto in life truly is low expectations and high hopes. I am fully, I have fully accepted my path to losing my vision and.

[00:00:29] Jake: [00:00:29] This is the interesting lives of normal people. Growing up. I had an aunt who was blind since birth. So for most of my life, I can remember just wrestling with the idea of blindness and what that experience would be like. But can you imagine being able to see for most of your life and then having that slowly ripped away.

[00:00:50] Holdeman: [00:00:50] March toward not being able to see this

[00:01:10] She's also using it to, we build an online community for people with all types of limitations with her website, thrive with disability.com. A quick side note, we do mention this website a lot and her blog that tells her full story. If you have the time, I'd highly recommend checking that out, as it will provide a bit more context to this conversation.

[00:01:46] Those are just a few things we talk about, but everything she has to say is just so valuable as her site suggests that the theme of her life is to live courageously and to thrive with her disability. And she's helping others do that.

[00:02:17] Lindsey: [00:02:17] doing great. Thank you. How are you?

[00:02:33] And so you might, you might find Lindsay in two different, a few different ways, but Lindsay has like a super interesting story. We're going to focus a lot on disabilities. Of course, we want to get into that, but even go back maybe further, just give us a kind of a quick rundown of your experience. A quick biography, who is.

[00:02:51] Lindsey: [00:02:51] CliffsNotes version. I love that. Okay. So I am a Denver native born and raised here, went to cherry Creek high school. And then after high school, I went to university of Oregon and I studied journalism and I was a radio DJ for a few years. And then I lived in Chicago back in Oregon and then eventually found my way back to Denver, where then I did a huge career leap and Was a massage therapist and in the fitness industry for eight years.

[00:03:49] Holdeman: [00:03:49] yeah.

[00:03:53] Jake: [00:03:53] event is one boring and one normal.

[00:04:03] the nonprofit is very interesting.

[00:04:17] Lindsey: [00:04:17] They're really good. You guys? Yeah. You guys sound great.

[00:04:32] And so if we could go back to kind of cause reading your blog, I mean, you have an amazing story on your, on your blog. Like I was in tears, reading it literally. And so maybe kind of go back a little bit and talk to us and put us in more context of, of how that comes into play and effects has affected your real life.

[00:04:49] Lindsey: [00:04:49] So I have a rare genetic eye disease called retinitis pigmentosa, which in the vision community is RP for short. And I was diagnosed when I was six years old and it does run in my family. So it started with my grandmother and she passed it down to my father. And then he passed it down to both me and my little brother.

[00:05:37] I didn't really love that term. So your peripheral vision slowly goes inward. And night blindness is a big, a big thing as well. So so that is my disability and I am lucky that mine is very slow to progress. So I still have a fair amount of sight left, but definitely notice changes as I get older.

[00:06:08] Lindsey: [00:06:08] for me? It is peripheral. Like that's where I noticed the most. So my four year old, you know, is tall for four, but he is under my sight line for my lower part of my vision.

[00:06:43]At night and now I have a really hard time. My husband actually gets really mad at me, even if I try on my own. So to a person that doesn't know me, it doesn't seem like they're big changes, but living in my own body they are significant changes.

[00:07:03] Did you already know that it was likely you had it or how's that I feel like this is a big piece of news to get in one.

[00:07:31] So his he's he's, he was able to drive my grandmother and I have, we're never able to drive, so I never got my driver's license. So

[00:07:53] Jake: [00:07:53] else. I have a lot of questions

[00:08:12] Lindsey: [00:08:12] So, well, I will say this, that in third grade, my mom. I don't really understand, even looking back her reasoning behind it. She hired like a visual specialist for me to help me in the classroom. Even though at that point, I didn't need help in the classroom whatsoever, but I think she wanted people to maybe understand.

[00:08:58] And so they're not experiencing what I'm experiencing, like not even close. And oh, it was so embarrassing. And so I will say that maybe that was a moment for me, but almost like it gave it a very negative connotation, you know? Like, but that was very eye-opening for sure. It was very extreme.

[00:09:17] Jake: [00:09:17] it was probably

[00:09:21] Fin: [00:09:21] man, it's weird. She always kicks our butt at soccer. Yeah. No Jenny, and find a way around school.

[00:09:32] Holdeman: [00:09:32] like, yeah. I can only think of like a couple of in my life.

[00:09:54] Lindsey: [00:09:54] with that. My motto in life truly is low expectations and high hopes.

[00:10:23] So I am fully, I have fully accepted my path to losing my vision and I'm okay with it as best as I can be. So

[00:10:46] Lindsey: [00:10:46] awesome.

[00:11:02] it is really interesting too, going to the eye doctor every year, medical professionals kill me, but they know what I have. And I went, I went just, when I just went this last year, she, the practitioner who brought me in it, wasn't the doctor, the doctor would not do that, but she's like, okay, I'm going to do a little, they call it like a field test to see what your visual field, but the problem is is that she has the lights off and she's like moving her finger around.

[00:11:37] Fin: [00:11:37] she's like, you've

[00:11:42] Lindsey: [00:11:42] You are literally setting me up to Vail.

[00:11:48] Fin: [00:11:48] sometimes.

[00:12:04] Lindsey: [00:12:04] Oh, that's such a tough question because I feel like for me, it's a long period of enough small changes to equal a big change for me.

[00:12:48] So it really, sometimes I almost have to be taken away from a situation and then brought back in to be like, whoa. Yeah, there's definitely some changes. And I think for me peripherally I do notice more and more now because it is progressing, whereas before it was so much slower, there wasn't much to notice, but it is happening.

[00:13:14] Holdeman: [00:13:14] I think it's same with knees

[00:13:20] Holdeman: [00:13:20] It's I mean, it seems like probably one of the things you've experienced more than the average person is significant change because even, I mean, like your side changes, but also I'm guessing that there's more adjusting to say you move to a new house or move to a new city or whatever.

[00:13:50] Fin: [00:13:50] experience with?

[00:14:01]It's a, it's a constant in your life. So. I feel like I just kind of am riding the wave and there's going to be highs and there's going to be lows to it. And I don't know what changes I'm going to need till I get to that moment. And so I just have to be able to adapt, really be open to expressing my needs, which has taken me a really long time to get to that point.

[00:14:48] You said

[00:15:05] Lindsey: [00:15:05] No, even around the neighborhood. I mean, our neighborhood is really dark, very dark. I mean, there's not a lot of light in the neighborhood at night and like the summer I was at a neighbor's house and I brought a flashlight and I thought to myself, I'll just walk myself home. I have a really good memory.

[00:15:54]And so I just was like, all right, I'm going to have to call Ryan. And he's going to have to, I mean, it was like 11 o'clock at night. And so I think for him, it's more of like, you know, he doesn't want to see me get harmed or put myself in harm's way. And he also gets annoyed with my stubbornness, which is a lot of people in my life.

[00:16:21] Holdeman: [00:16:21] Fortunately Ryan's are really helpful. So

[00:16:48] Like really no one, no one gets it. Could you maybe elaborate on, on that? And like, even just kind of like day to day, and you even mentioned in your, your blog about your story, talking about how you bump into people into the grocery store and had gotten used to. From at least when you wrote that blog, it's like it.

[00:17:25] Lindsey: [00:17:25] Yeah. You know, I'm going to interesting position because obviously there have been times where I feel very alone and I think the ironic part about that is I have family members who share the same thing I do. Right. But we handle it in very, very different ways. And so it has been easy to feel alone because I can't communicate with them the way that I would like to about our shared condition.

[00:18:14] Fin: [00:18:14] yeah.

[00:18:29]And I'm working on something so that I don't feel that way anymore, but you know, it is. And, and, or if I do go into stores and I'm looking at a price tag and these price tags are really small, so I look at it very closely and the line of like, oh man, you're, you know, have you looked into getting glasses?

[00:18:52] Jake: [00:18:52] never heard it

[00:19:20] Them.

[00:19:42] Grow, grow your empathy, grow your understanding of that. There's people there are experiences out there that are not yours.

[00:20:10] And it's so easy just to look at them and judge, or be like, oh man, like, you know, it's so easy to do that. And you just never know what people are going through on the inside. You just have no idea. And I do feel sad, especially right now in our world. I just feel like there's such a lack of empathy and kindness.

[00:20:40] Jake: [00:20:40] And that's one of the reasons that this podcast is that we want to remind people that they're assholes.

[00:20:48] Jake: [00:20:48] there. It is funny. It's cool. You actually bring up the Costco thing because I'm definitely the person I'm like dodging and weaving and I'm like, I have two kids right here. You don't understand what my life is like right now. It's like, actually you're a pretty able-bodied person.

[00:21:11] Holdeman: [00:21:11] So I was curious just as we're kind of talking about, you said one in 10 people have a disability, can you unpack the word disability for us? Like, I think that's a word that has a lot of different points of view on it.

[00:21:28] Lindsey: [00:21:28] you know, as I've done thrive, I've come to find out that disability is like a terrible word. It's like differently abled because we're still able bodies. We're just like everyone, how our strengths lie in different places.

[00:21:59]So I think, you know, I think it's come to have such a negative connotation, like calling someone disabled is very much frowned upon now. It's like, no, you, they are differently abled. They're limited in this certain area of what they can do. I personally don't view it as a negative thing. I do have a disability.

[00:22:27] Fin: [00:22:27] I think that identity, it's a question I wanted to ask you about, did you, at what point did you start identifying as disabled and was that a, was that a barrier or was there a hurdle

[00:22:42] Fin: [00:22:42] like, nah, this is me and that's okay.

[00:23:05] And there are those who deal with it and face it and move forward. And those that hide from it. And I did not want to be a person that had from it. And so as hard as it has been to unpack that emotional baggage or grief that comes with that, I just knew that I had, I just, I had to do it for myself and my family, because I just, I didn't want to carry that around

[00:23:30] When was the moment of, I'm curious, like kind of age wise and place in life when you kind of decided to start owning it?

[00:23:50] Because I was in some ways still very stubborn. We'll do it. I will figure it out on my own. I don't need anybody. I've got this. Like I will do it. And at the time we lived in downtown town, Denver and I didn't drive and I needed to ask for help. And so in order to do that, I just had to really come to terms with what that means it looks like and getting over it, if you will.

[00:24:39]And feel a sense of community. That was really important to

[00:24:57] Lindsey: [00:24:57] with there are days.

[00:25:19] And then the next day, I don't think about

[00:25:48] And so you can go find, you know, parents who are, who are wrestling with similar things, whatever those are, and start to really community. But tell us a little bit about starting a community. How has that gone? What are some of the inspiring things that have come out of that, that have helped you, you know, get encouraged to keep encouraging?

[00:26:37] Every one of those people is dealing with what I'm dealing with. And so there's definitely like I get it and you know, they get it. But for me that wasn't big enough. I wanted to go bigger because I just wanted parents to feel like they had a safe place to be authentic and to be real and to share those raw emotions because that's something I feel like that is really hard for people to do.

[00:27:27]And so I knew that an order for me to ask others to do that, I had to do that. And that was probably one of the hardest things I have ever done writing my story on there. Oh. That like tore my heart out. It was, I get emotional thinking about it. It was, it was heart wrenching. I really had to dive deep It really kind of felt like an out-of-body experience.

[00:27:55] Holdeman: [00:27:55] putting it out there, like the publishing it, or was it even like you were processing it? All of it.

[00:28:14] And what is it not, I really just had to step outside of myself and be like, fuck it. I just have to do this. Right. It's this is my mission. I have to do it. So it was, it was, yeah. And I will say yes. And there was this other part of it of one thing was writing it and the other thing was sharing it. It was probably the scariest thing I've ever done.

[00:29:01] I never knew this about you. And that really showed me how closed off I had been after posting that I kind of had a couple months where I just was really struggling emotionally. It was like climbing out of, oh, well, this is what I like to the story of it. And once I did, I, I felt so much better because of all the amazing positive feedback I got which I wasn't looking for, that, that wasn't, that's never the point.

[00:29:49] They really does. And it really puts things even my life into perspective. And so I am just really thankful. It's, it's brought me a lot of joy and, and heartache. But I feel like I've grown so much as a person because of thrive and the people that have contributed.

[00:30:18] It's probably not just about, Hey, we all want to, we want community, but we also there's something in the process of actually. Letting that go. And just the freedom that it brings must be a common experience

[00:30:33] Jake: [00:30:33] with.

[00:30:35] I always tell people when they're writing something, you know, it helps to think like you're writing a letter to yourself or in your journal, like just write what you really feel. And then you can go back and look it over. But most of the times they just send what they initially wrote because that is the truest form.

[00:31:05] Holdeman: [00:31:05] Hmm. So people have had like lots of the same experience that you have.

[00:31:33]She wrote to me personally and said, it brought one of the most intimate, best conversations we had ever had as a family about this. And that to me was like, I'm like, I don't need to do any more like that. That was amazing. Just to hear stuff like that. It makes it all worth it.

[00:31:54] Is that like, what do you want thrive to be? But maybe the better question is thrive. Exactly what you want it to be. I mean, are you, do you want it to be bigger? And when I say bigger, like an organization or do you really just, is it, has it reached the exact goal of what you want it to be. I

[00:32:12] I am actually, yeah, definitely. I, I really want to continue opening people's eyes because it is pretty amazing how many people have no idea, you know, everything that's out there. And how could you, I mean, I wouldn't, I would never know, but just kind of like, like we were talking about being, open-minded being open to what others are experiencing in their life.

[00:33:05] I want there to be conversations at the dinner table about what they learned and experiences with the speaker. They heard that day and just open people's minds and hearts and get conversations going. Hmm.

[00:33:21] Holdeman: [00:33:21] seems like a little bit. What you're saying is there's, there is some strength for a person who's dealing with something and almost like hiding it, putting on a smile and going about your business, but it's not as strong as.

[00:33:58] And that it's a little bit, this transition, even culturally, not just for people who have a disability, but for, for the communities to say, how do we support each other better? How do we, you know, if those can share, people can share what they're struggling with and then we can step into those things and be a part of it that in some ways the sharing is a gift to everyone else too, to be able to step into that and, and see the world through someone else's eyes a little bit clearer than they could before.

[00:34:50] So I don't, I don't want to be the field. Good story. I want to, I want to bring about this story is that people are like, whoa, you know, like, but then they go home. It's those kind of stories that you go home and you really think about it and you push yourself outside of your own little box, you know? That's what I want.

[00:35:08] Jake: [00:35:08] cool. I'm going to share my, so you know, a little bit of backstory Lindsay and I live in the same neighborhood and she has recently become friends with my wife at the time. Kind of a Tuesday afternoon park meet play date, right. With all the kids. So it was Maggie that kind of told me about you.

[00:35:43] This is the thing that pops into my head. And I just, I would love for you to kind of respond with kind of I'm, I'm sharing with you kind of like my natural, immediate response. And I'm curious to how you respond to my response, which was I'm like, well, that would be, that would suck. But the next that was I'm like, but there are a lot of like great things like podcasts.

[00:36:25] I'm curious, what is your honest

[00:36:29] Holdeman: [00:36:29] fine. There are podcasts. At least

[00:36:32] Lindsey: [00:36:32] There's podcasts. They don't need television. There's podcasts. Right? There's lots of podcasts.

[00:36:43] But it's also like, well, that's I also write my next thought was that's a pretty narrow view, but anyways, so I'm just curious. What is your, we better make a lot more episodes.

[00:37:13] Our pod, I mean, really, I don't know many people that go there, so that's Bravo too. Cause that's a different train of thought than most people would go to.

[00:37:51] If she can't see, you know, it's like, but it's that? Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, that's terrible. I just want to punch him in the face. I really do, because I'm like, what are you, sorry about why are you? Sorry, it's stupid. It doesn't feel like a genuine empathetic, I'm sorry. It feels like, oh yeah.

[00:38:23] That's a, that's like a, a sentence in a way. Right. And I think that's my thought. And I, I guess if I'm trying to think about it,

[00:38:48] Lindsey: [00:38:48] Oh my gosh. I mean, even before deaths, we're all marching towards something like every one of us on this podcast has something internally you're dealing with.

[00:39:20] Well, that fucking sucks. You know, like

[00:39:25] Lindsey: [00:39:25] just call a spade, a spade. Oh, you're losing your sight. That is just terrible. Like, yeah, it is. I'm not gonna lie, you know, but I don't know. I just feel like people do not want to hear the I'm sorry. They don't want to hear it. They don't want the fake sympathy card. And I think that's worth talking about as being real was like, I, you know, I actually enjoy it when I, I am now very vocal.

[00:40:10] That's why people are like, oh, they don't know what to say, which I understand. I don't know. I don't expect people to know what to say because how could, you know what to say? But, you know, just be conscious of, not everyone wants to hear. I'm sorry. It's like, you're saying, you're sorry. Like your sentence to death really is what it sounds like

[00:40:31] Holdeman: [00:40:31] you're like, it's a desire to retreat for almost like whatever just happened that exposed this thing that I don't know what to say about.

[00:40:42] Fin: [00:40:42] fine.

[00:40:59] It's like, if you're anywhere right. A child sees someone in a wheelchair or has a physical disability that you can visually see. And the child with just their sweet, innocent curiosity will stay mommy, daddy, you know, what's wrong with that person? And the parent will be like, oh, I'll, let's just leave them alone.

[00:41:39] And as a parent, read the situation and maybe go up with the child and, and ask the question, you know, because most, of course there are those people that are going to be mean about it, but I guarantee you more than that. I would love to have a conversation about it. We'd love to engage in a conversation and not be like, you know, shunned in a whispery tone

[00:42:02] I think you would, people would understand if you just said, look, I don't know how long this is going to last. I feel bad for myself. I'm just going to really do me for as long as I can, as long as I've got these, these eyeballs and they can see I'm going to go look at everything I can look at, I'm going to watch all the Netflix.

[00:42:41] Into something so positive. And, and what was that journey like to it? Maybe you hadn't done it and it was like, whatever, screw it. I'm going to live life and I'm going to make it, do good things for people and that's that, but maybe it wasn't that clean either.

[00:43:07] Yes, I have definitely done that. But I, I have seen others live life with pity and I don't, I think by seeing that I don't want that life for myself. So I have chosen because it is a choice. I have chosen to live with a positive attitude to be real with my emotions, but at the end of the day, live life for the positive attitude.

[00:44:00]And I do think, you know, I, my childhood sucked and I think it did kind of in a S in a way that I didn't know at the time, train me to be able to endure all the things that were to come.

[00:44:26] I've I've gotta be tough.

[00:44:46]And with my parents, it was not, they weren't fighting for us. They were fighting against each other constantly. So I had to grow up in a way very quickly. I had to, I had to learn early on that I had to look out for myself. And not only myself, but my little brother, because I didn't want him to be the center of their fighting either.

[00:45:30]So I think that experience definitely shaped and helped me have the position I do and have the outlook I do because I did think, you know, if I can get through this, I can get through anything. Denver

[00:45:49] Lindsey: [00:45:49] Denver is dead. I came back to Eugene first. I remember I went to Eugene.

[00:46:09] Jake: [00:46:09] You live pretty close to where you grew up. I live like 15

[00:46:16] Holdeman: [00:46:16] Yes. Joke Jake. I'm going to get as far away

[00:46:23] Yeah.

[00:46:26] Fin: [00:46:26] I

[00:46:38] Fin: [00:46:38] then I did some yeah, R T or a R T H

[00:46:59] Fin: [00:46:59] That's where my mom grew up.

[00:47:28] I will like teach you everything. Like my wife and I will we'll help take, like, you'll be able to, we'll help you out. And I was like, all right. And then I had to, I was like, can I do this? And then he called me two weeks later and said, Lindsay, don't take the job. My wife and I are moving to Florida.

[00:48:08] Jake: [00:48:08] right?

[00:48:12] Lindsey: [00:48:12] I don't think so. I, you know, I kind of like the pads crazy curves in my life has taken me. Everything happens for a reason. I do believe that. So I maybe would have lasted two months and Sterling. Let's be honest,

[00:48:26] What is like the process of thrive? Like what, what is it beyond, or is it a blog currently? Like what are kind of next steps with it? I'm also curious, like how do people contribute to it? Like, what's the process for

[00:48:45] It turns out people do not like to share their story. They don't want to be seen because there has been so much shame and embarrassment and negative connotations that they are scared or intimidated or so I have had a couple of people that have asked if they could share their story, but mainly it's been me asking others to share their story.

[00:49:38] And her, it was her blog post that she let people know that she had this condition.

[00:49:56] Lindsey: [00:49:56] Just love to hear more about, yeah.

[00:50:16]I'm hoping one day that it's, you know not the case that it's a little bit more, I don't want to say mainstream, but that it's more known. But that is how it is right now is word of mouth. And I guess I want people when they come to it, I want them to feel comfort whether they can directly relate or not.

[00:50:59] And so I feel like, you know, whether or not you experienced it directly, like you do, you do get a sense of understanding. There's a part of you that doesn't want to understand. And so I hope they find comfort or that they learn something, or it just brings them a little bit more day-to-day awareness of their surroundings.

[00:51:41] Lindsey: [00:51:41] No, I think however, you authentically react is the way you should react. I mean, no one wants to, you know, if it helps put your life in perspective, like if you're having a bad day, because your car wouldn't start and your coffee spilt on you and it puts life into perspective, then fantastic. You know, like, so be it.

[00:52:16] You know, you're a little bit more aware your eyes are open a little bit more. And hopefully that it makes you look at the world and the people around you a little bit differently, and maybe we should

[00:52:28] Lindsey: [00:52:28] And a lean in to feeling uncomfortable. Yes.

[00:52:35] Jake: [00:52:35] So I had some, some kind of like closing questions to two questions. What lifelong lessons do you want your kids to take away from your journey?

[00:53:20] We would ride the city buses together and we'd go all over town. And he is very aware that mommy cannot see well. And it's always really great to help if I drop something and I it's blending in with the floor, he comes and helps me. If we're walking from a neighbor's house at night, he grabs onto my hand.

[00:54:10] Holdeman: [00:54:10] And it's cool that they they've got some clear ways to be contributors to the family.

[00:54:30]But I'm more in the day. I, I, you know Ryan Finn were asking about, you know, things that I'm scared to miss out on. It's watching them that I that's what I fear. That's what that's, what brings me to tears is not watching Calen play baseball. As close to high school it's not watching Jacob, my youngest, you know, do the things that he's going to do.

[00:55:19] It won't be the same. And that's, that's heartbreaking as

[00:55:50] Lindsey: [00:55:50] Well, that's not necessarily true, but I'm definitely more appreciative. Yeah, I'm definitely, I definitely, when I say hold onto, I don't mean like they can never grow up. I don't want them to leave the house, but I definitely am more appreciative and more I guess, aware of these, of this fleeting time, if you will.

[00:56:27] I'm just curious how you've responded to that question. Maybe initially or where have you landed with that question?

[00:56:52]And actually at the end of the day, I'm grateful for it. I get emotional saying that I just got tears because I actually really value my perspective on life. I feel like it's different and I feel like it is in its own way special. I value that I am able to give people a different perspective.

[00:57:42] Jake: [00:57:42] That's cool. That's amazing. I think I'm going to leave that in if that's okay. Yeah.

[00:58:01] Lindsey: [00:58:01] it in the powerful moments. Yes. Can I add one more thing? I just really want to, if whoever's listening to this really encourage you to, whether you can directly relate or not. But I think the goal for me is to really encourage you to be authentic with your own feelings and to not be afraid to share them and let people in, because it is when you do that, that the biggest gifts come your way, doing this, like doing thrive and opening myself up as scary as it was.

[00:58:50] Jake: [00:58:50] kind of a phrase that hit me a couple of years ago when we were living in Seattle was embrace

[00:58:57] Jake: [00:58:57] And that just more and more, I mean, it's kind of similar to what you're saying, which is just, you got to embrace it.

[00:59:11] Lindsey: [00:59:11] Yeah. That's a scary place for a lot of people. They'd rather brush it under the rug and pretend. Everything's

[00:59:17] Holdeman: [00:59:17] I think it's okay. It's okay. To have information, data experience coming in.

[00:59:26] Fin: [00:59:26] Yeah.

[00:59:43] I really do love making people feel uncomfortable,

[00:59:47] Jake: [00:59:47] is so good.

[00:59:51] Holdeman: [00:59:51] One thing I want to make sure we get into the end is just like all the places that you want people to find you. I know we've talked about those and stuff, but we haven't said like Instagram is what your website is.

[01:00:14] Jake: [01:00:14] TOK.

[01:00:36] Fin: [01:00:36] real

[01:00:36] All you have to do is find a good song. Great.

[01:00:45] Fin: [01:00:45] on it? You know,

[01:00:49] Fin: [01:00:49] that

[01:00:53] Holdeman: [01:00:53] technically I haven't posted anything yet, but I will post something if you'll go. Whoa, whoa, whoa,

[01:01:00] Lindsey: [01:01:00] Do you have an account, but you haven't.

[01:01:02] Holdeman: [01:01:02] working on choreographing. My first video

[01:01:05] It's

[01:01:10] Holdeman: [01:01:10] moment. It's going to be, this song

[01:01:19] Jake: [01:01:19] on. Oh, wait, are you, are you closing us out? Right? I was just showing you what? Oh, do you guys have Tik

[01:01:26] Jake: [01:01:26] hell?

[01:01:28] Fin: [01:01:28] No, I did download it at a point, but then I was like, I don't know what's happening here. So I got rid of it as a former DJ. You should give us some, some tips on how to do our, how to do

[01:01:41] Lindsey: [01:01:41] Being a radio DJ is probably a little different than being a podcast host. So I just said next up is Nellie was, it's getting hot.

[01:01:56] That, that ages me big time.

[01:02:06] Lindsey: [01:02:06] Okay. Oh no. I guess forever bear town. It's amazing book. It's about hockey and Canada. The boys on the boat.

[01:02:16] Jake: [01:02:16] of that book?

[01:02:18] Lindsey: [01:02:18] That's a good one. Yeah. That's one of my favorites. Another one which is called the red tent. It's very good too. Yeah.

[01:02:37] Lindsey: [01:02:37] so much for having me.

[01:02:41] Jake: [01:02:41] Well, thank you so much. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:02:51] Jake: [01:02:51] thanks for listening to the interesting lives of normal people. If you like what you've heard, we'd really appreciate giving us a review and rating on apple podcasts and telling your friends it really helps new people find us, make sure to check out Lindsey's website at thrivewithdisability.com. And thanks again to Hugo for letting us use her music.