In this episode, Mike and Wendy Lynn delve into the mysteries of Lysergic acid diethylamide, or as it’s better known by its acronym, LSD (or its street name, acid). The show starts with a discussion of the invention of LSD in the 1930s, and then into how LSD became the “drugs” in sex, drugs, and rock n’ roll. Then they go into detail on the difference between acid and other drugs and the Steve Jobs method for tripping.

The conversation turns to LSD and pop culture, starting with author Aldous Huxley’s experiments and his influence on Jim Morrison and The Doors. Mama Cass returns to the podcast as we discuss her relationship with the drug. Then it’s the CIA’s MKUltra mind control experiments (Muse would later write a song about it as well) on soldiers and prostitutes in the 1950s, The Men Who Stare At Goats, the counterculture of the 1960s, Dr. Timothy Leary and his influence on Fringe’s Doctor Walter Bishop, and Mad Men.

“I know what it’s like to be dead”, is what Peter Fonda kept saying when The Beatles tripped with him and The Byrds. And then they go into John, Paul, George, and Ringo’s experiences with acid and their songs that were based on those experiences with not only “Lucy Inn the . Then it’s The Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, “acid house”, and other tracks that have been influenced by tripping on LSD.

They then finish the conversation with how acid was made illegal to get back at the anti-war hippies and how now LSD has finally been made legal for research in the present, hopefully leading to a common sense policy on humanity’s relationship with the substance.

Links:

Sam Harris, “Drugs and the Meaning of Life”

LSD, Magic Mushrooms & CIA Mind Control Experiments!

“ Fringe and The Harvard Psychedelic Club”

Rolling Stone , “100 Greatest Beatle Songs”, “Tomorrow Never Knows”

Popular Science , “Why Doctors Can’t Give You LSD (But Maybe They Should)”

Welcome to see you on the other Mike, where the world of

the mysterious collides with the world of entertainment.

A discussion of art, music, movies, spirituality, the

weird, and self discovery. And now,

your hosts, musicians and entertainers who have their

own weakness for the weird, Mike and Wendy from the

band Sunspot.

Well, here we are again, Mike, and it's Friday. How are you doing today?

Oh, TGIF. That's what I always say. I

I sure do love Fridays. Me too. It means the

weekend's here. Yep. And, you know what I like doing on the weekend, Wendy?

What do you like doing on the weekend, Mike? I like taking LSD.

Alright. Well, it's funny you should mention that because, guess what the topic

of today's show is? What is the topic of today's show? LSD.

Oh Mike god. It's a whole episode about LSD and its

influence on pop culture just in time for your

weekend, to give you some tips and tell you all about how

LSD has kind of affected, arts and everything like that over the well,

since it's been invented right around 80 years ago. 80 years

ago? That's right. LSD is I mean, people

were alive when it was invented. It's it's it's one

of the newer, hallucinogens and stuff like that.

Not like, you know, some things like magic mushrooms Oh, sure. Have been

around for centuries. Right. And people would take it and run with their spirit

animal. And we'll we'll talk about spirit animals and things like that Yeah.

Sometime soon. No. But this is a newer to to the human

race kind of thing. Absolutely. Alright. Absolutely. So it's But I still

didn't realize it was that long ago that it was invented. Yeah.

Lysergic acid diethylamide.

And it was invented by a guy named

Albert Hoffman in 1938.

And he's working on it, and then he accidentally ingest he accidentally

ingested it in 1943. Can you okay. So a hallucinogenic

experience without knowing it's a hallucinogenic experience.

Without expecting Mike you just, you know, just looking around and all of a sudden

Yeah. The room is spinning or you see trails. Like Alice

in Wonderland Absolutely. In real life. Right. So Albert

Albert in Wonderland is what happened to Albert in 19

Right. 38. And he didn't die till

2,008. Wow. Yeah. And so he was a firm believer

in its use And in its health benefits. And its health benefits. Well,

I mean, we'll we'll talk about that. But let I mean, just as far as

so LSD has been around for, 70 I guess,

76 years. I said 80 years, I exaggerate. But 76 years Yeah. Well, close

enough. It's just a little younger than my father,

who you know I mean, my dad's never he would never be the

type because he is real straight arrow kinda guy. Right. So I

can't imagine him taking a journey to the center of his

mind anytime. It's not for squares, man. Yeah. I

think he tried I think, I think he tried meditation in the

seventies. Woah. Well, meditation

which can produce the kind of disassociative

state. Right. Over hours and over a practice that people

get. But it's naturally acquired, not Yes. It's not a chemical. It

just shoots through your head kinda thing. But,

LSD Wendy so you've heard the expression sex, drugs, and rock and roll

Of course. Okay. Heard it. I've lived it. Yeah.

The drugs that they're the drugs that they're talking about

is LSD. So that's the particular,

you know, the the drug that they're talking about. Who's they? Well, the people

coined the phrase in the 19 sixties. Okay. Because throughout most of the

19 sixties, LSD was legal. What?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're Mike, oh my god. But you could you'd ordered it

in the back of magazines. Like, LSD was something that, it was just a

chemical. People experimented with it. People tried it. Yeah.

So we should check the magazines now for the next

drug that is presently legal but will be illegal.

But Absolutely. Wait. Wait. If you wanna have the magazine Yeah. Right. I

remember I remember my magazine. So I'd go on the Internet and just find different

things you can try before the government makes it illegal so you can experience something.

It's a horrible idea. Because, I mean, LSD, it's not just

a high. You know, people would do things Mike people drink beer,

smoke marijuana, do a line of blow or whatever. Eat some

magic mushrooms. Well, no mushrooms have the same Oh, they're in the same that's right.

In the same family. Where you I mean,

some most drugs are a,

what's the word I'm looking for? You know, when

you just wanna do things to have fun, hedonistic. Oh, sure. Most drugs

are hedonistic. And Yeah. You know, when you get wasted, you don't

necessarily have any kind of Deep thoughts. Introspection, or

anything like that. You don't really go into yourself. Usually, you're just like, oh,

man, and then you end up watching Jerry Springer or something like that for a

while. But, I mean

so who LSD hallucinogen, I mean, that gives

people, that that's the California sunshine. You know, that's the dream.

That's that it puts them, into their own mind

and into their own state kinda thing and and gives them kind of a

a introspective effect that other drugs don't have. Right.

Whereas other drugs usually give you they they cause you to lose

your inhibitions. Right. I mean, I'm not saying it's more I'm not saying

people can't lose their inhibitions with LSD. Yeah. But usually, it's more like,

whoo, Mike a pants off. Yeah. It it's

it's not right. It's not just the inhibitions of, like, you're going out and you

might talk to a girl you wouldn't talk to. On LSD, you're gonna talk to

a tree? Right. Because the difference is is that,

the the barriers of the self in the mind that

are that exist in our our our consciousness and stuff like that. I mean, Sam

Harris talks about this a little bit in his waking up, this this spirituality

without religion kinda book, and and, he's got a

a little, we we can link to that essay about it where

where he talks about he's a neuroscientist, and he actually advocates for the use

of some different kinds of hallucinogenic drugs because

it changes your perception of your like, it changes your mind. For good health. For

good health. That's right. No. But for good, Mike, experiencing

life. For experiencing life because you can't have a spiritual kind of

experience that people feel, where they feel connected to the

rest of the world around them and they connect connected to other people.

You you lose the barriers of the self. And that I mean, it can be

a good thing because you feel connected with other people and you realize that that

maybe we're not as alone as we think we are,

but it also can be a bad thing because you could do something stupid Yeah.

Because you're you're not quite living in reality. I

mean, some people might say it's a deeper reality. Sure. Inside your head. Right.

But strap yourself down so you don't jump off a bill.

Do the Steve Jobs thing and, like, go into the the

cornfield or whatever. Not cornfield. Just an open field. Right. Just do

do something weird. I mean, that's Mike, Steve Jobs. Sorry. Steve

that's okay. Jobbs. Steve Jobbs.

Steve Jobes went into the field. And did his

lysergic to thiamide. Anyway. But

ask This is the first time we've on this program that

we've talked about drugs in a I

I don't wanna say in a good way, but, you know, all the other we've

we've done a we've done a lot of talking about heroin and the bad things

that it's done to people. And Yes. But, there haven't been

many conversations about any healthful benefits of Right.

I and the thing is, I mean, you can say that, oh, yeah. Opiates can

be can be used in a positive manner on

the battlefield, I guess, or whatever. If somebody's in pain and you can reduce their

pain, and morphine obviously is used in hospitals.

But But it's not so much a health benefit that you'd be doing Right.

Yourself a service there. And it's not saying that LSD is not a dangerous

thing because people do stupid stuff all the Mike. And they, you know,

and like anything, you can have a psychological addiction to, you know, if you

lose when you talk about losing that, the sense of the self and

feeling connected to the world and and and seeing that layer underneath

the conscious mind, there's no question that some

people would rather stay there than hang out in

the real world. Yeah. And especially when you think about rock stars,

the very egocentric, you know, everything is about

me me me me me. Yeah. So maybe being in the limelight

and getting all that attention all the time might be nice for them to

get a little escape and to to get that deeper introspection. Well,

absolutely. And we we can I mean, just talking about the rock stars,

I mean, first of all, Aldous Huxley, he

wrote Brave New World, which is, you know, one of the

the standards for the books on, you know, being wary of

this the state and the different things they can do? He also wrote a

book called The Doors of Perception, which is written about his

experiments with mescaline, which is another hallucinogenic drug.

And The Doors of Perception was the inspiration behind

the band name for The Doors. Oh, cool. So, Aldous

Huxley, I mean, he's he moved to California and started taking LSD

regularly. Oh, surprise. Surprise. That never what? He moved

to California to drugs? Get out of here.

But it's something he believed, and he even used LSD on his deathbed. He asked

for it. He wanted to be when he went, he wanted to be in that,

you know, that that state. And he wanted to, you know, to feel that connection

and and to feel be stripped of the self. And Well, that seems like a

good time to do it too because if there's any serious brain damage, well Right.

What's the worst it can have? It's Mike, I'm already gone. Not gonna be using

that much longer. Yeah. And, you

know, and the and the doors, you know, Jim

Morrison, summer in 1965, he said he would

visit nightly a fantastic rock concert concert that was

going on in my head. Oh, yeah, man. Yeah.

So, Jim Morrison, The Doors of Perception, songs

like People Are Strange, Strange Days Indeed, and Break On Through

to the Other Side. Okay. So The Other Side, you know, breaking on through that

was had had his breakthrough through that. And so,

you know, Jim was really into it and he's one of the, you know, first

examples. You know, when you're talking about mama Cass in a previous episode. Right?

Mhmm. And how she haunts Dan Aykroyd's house. That's right.

Well, you know, there's a if you watch the behind the music and the doors

and I mean, I'm sorry. On the on the mamas and the papas. And everything

now obviously has gotten weirder with the mamas and the papas since the

daughter of the, John Phillips came out and said, you know, oh,

he had a had a sexual relationship with my father. Remember that? Right. Yeah. That

was that was that was a while ago. Yeah. That was nasty. So that kinda

changes, like, when you watch that behind the music. I I don't know if they've

shown that behind the music. It kinda changes that because you're Mike, oh, man.

Right. But the this situation? They would talk about when they're recording

they're recording this album and that mama cast would come to them every morning with

an eye dropper full of LSD. Oh my gosh. And now she'd put a little

drop on their tongue and that should be Mike, time is time for breakfast.

Time to start the day. Little eye dropper on the tongue.

Some people make eggs and waffles, Mike, mama Cass,

you know, forget the ham sandwich. She was, gosh.

Right. She was on acid. So is liquid is it always in liquid form?

Well, the the chemical's a liquid, but people, you know, people take it with this

dropper. People take it in a sugar cube. I see. People take it and I

guess the most famous one is a tab. So you have, like, a piece of

paper that you kinda Yeah. Like those breath strips. Yeah. It's

like minty fresh. It's like a breath strip for your

mind, man.

So, you know, that

so The Doors obviously were really into it. Mama Cass was into it. But,

you know, who else was into it? Who?

The CIA. Oh. Yeah. The CIA was into it too.

But they're not rock stars. They're not rock stars. But,

there was an experiment called MK Ultra.

And this relates because Mike has a cool song called MK Ultra. Yes.

And this was mind control experiments on soldiers, prostitutes,

and others in the 19 fifties. Was that Mike the man who stared goats?

Yeah. Kinda like that, except they were looking for, psychic powers and

stuff. Oh. These guys were just they were trying to see, like, okay. Mhmm. Can

how can we brainwash? So if, like

Okay. Brain do you ever see the Manchurian Candidate? No.

Manchurian Candidate I mean, I'll spoil it for you. It's it's about a guy

Spoiler alerts. Mike gets, you know, brainwashed to kill

the president. Oh. You know, triggered to kill the president. So

they made a you know, made an update of it a few years ago. It

was and that was pretty good. But, the brainwashing from the 19

fifties, the idea that, like, the Soviets or the North Koreans or the

Chinese could take you and they could control your mind.

They thought they actually you know, the CIA actually thought that this

was a thing we could do. Wow. And now that they had LSD, which

people have said, like, it changes their habits, like people stop biting their nails, people

Oh, wow. You know, they do certain things alters their brain. Because it you're right.

It alters your brain chemistry quickly. And if people have change

of hearts, say, about things, they forgive people. They just they do things in a

certain way that if your neural pathways are going in a certain way

and a shortcut to So,

that's what they say. That's with mind control. That's how you would brainwash somebody. So

it's Mike the proverbial Kool Aid. They wanna beat it. Right. It is

the Kool Aid, and they wanna make you drink it. And, so the CIA would

have these they had these experiments in the 19 fifties. An actual

quote from the CIA memo was, can we get

control of an individual to the point where he will do our bidding

against his will and even against fundamental laws of nature

such as self preservation. So they're really they wanna make,

like, drones out of people. They want Like, just mindless And this is an

actual thing. This isn't just we're not making this up. The men the men who

stared at goats, you know, it's all kind of, like, exploring. They're looking

for whatever tool or weapon, if you will Right. Would work. And they're

willing to to try things that are outside of the the

known science world. And and yeah. And this is the same kind of thing, the

suggestibility. The fact that you could be a sleeper agent or something. You

go back and you wouldn't might not even know it. You know? You might not

you know, you'd be activated and and so that's what MK Ultra was. They'd

bring prostitutes back to a San Francisco safe house

where they would unknowingly get drinks laced with LSD, and then their behavior

was observed behind the two way mirror. Wow. So they were using them as their,

like, experiment. And there was no they didn't sign a waiver or

anything like that. They would find prostitutes, lace their drinks,

and just watch them. And you can see some of these on YouTube.

You can go and and some of the I mean, it's all been a lot

of it's been declassified. At least the stuff they want. The stuff they want us

to know. Right. And they had willing

subjects too. 1 of the, first willing subjects

was Ken Kesey who, wrote One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. And

he was also a a big figure in the, you know, the cult the counterculture

of the 19 sixties 19 seventies of, we talk

about counterculture in the 19 sixties. One of the things

that we're talking about and we're talking about the hippie movement. We're talking about the

antiwar movement. We're talking about the people that thought they were fighting the

mainstream. They also loved LSD. You know,

they're also big on LSD. You know, like, you know, it

was seen as expanding your mind. What's the ultimate thing that your square

parents aren't gonna do, man? I see. And that's drop

acid. Right? You know, and you have a you have a Harvard professor,

Timothy Leary. His motto was to turn on, tune

in, drop out. Nice. And I mean his His motto?

His motto, like, you know, turn on and tune in. You know, like become part

of the counterculture. Drop out of the mainstream,

take acid. He was the basis for I I don't know if you ever watched

Fringe, but there was a a character it's a great show.

I think it's most of it's on Netflix now so it's worth watching. A great

show. The character doctor Walter Bishop was based on

Timothy. Mike, the main one of the main characters in the show. Like and he

takes LSD every once in a while in a show. Like, they show him doing

that, because he does experiments and stuff like that

on people's minds. And, so he was the basis of this character in the

show Fringe. And this is another way that, LSD

is kind of, influencing the the counter you know, the,

culture and stuff. There was an episode of Mad Men too where they

experimented with it, and they showed, you know, the perspective of the the characters

as they were doing it. So I I thought that was that was

pretty funny. That's alright. I forgot Roger drops acid. Yeah. Who

does? Not just Roger. Betty and,

Don. Oh, yeah. Oh my god. Yes. Alright.

So, you know, so it wasn't illegal yet, even though

Don wouldn't care if something was legal or not. Right. Right. Right.

But, I mean, that's the 19 sixties. The Beatles,

John Lennon, George Harrison, they were dosed with LSD

unknowingly by the dentist, their dentist. What? Yeah. So,

like, well, the laughing yes wasn't quite effective. Let's try something

else. Yeah. They their dentist That's scary. Gave them

LSD. But if that happened at the dentist now, first of all, I'd get

my teeth cleaned more. Do you think that really, like that they

weren't, like, oh, yeah. The dentist gave it to me. Like Right. It

was some sure. I mean, that could've it's like Oh, my gosh. It was a

dentist. It really was. That is I mean, that wasn't

even close to an accent. But,

so so Ringo, George, and John all tripped with the band

The Byrds. Oh. You have to do everything

to drugs. Oh. And Peter Fonda

who is an easy rider, actor, kinda

guy, you know. And so, so they tripped with Peter Fonda and Paul didn't though.

He is such a good boy. Yes. He was Paul? He was good that day.

But, so

they said that Peter Fonda just kept on saying, I know what it's like to

be dead. Oh, gosh. And then just kept he said it over and over again,

and then just annoyed everybody. So they were saying that Peter Fonda was a real

pain to do drugs with. Like that guy in Wayne's World, I love you, man.

I know I love you. I know what it's like to be

dead. Shut up, Peter.

Okay. And and George Harrison was a big fan. He said,

when 2 people take it at the same time, words become redundant.

One can see what the other is thinking. You look at each other,

and you know. That's pretty cool. So that's I

mean, so that's how George felt about it and, obviously, it influenced some of their

songs. Tomorrow Never Knows. Another song actually,

that song was talking about Mad Men. When Mad Men used that song, Tomorrow Never

Knows, it was the highest amount ever paid to

a for a TV show or a movie to use a

song. It was Mike a quarter of a $1,000,000 to use that song.

They must have really wanted that song. It's like they're like, man, it's gotta be

Tomorrow Never Knows. Really? For $250,000? That is wild.

Right. Some of the Oh, man. Good for the artists. Yay. Yes. Right. Well, The

Beatles. 2 of them got some 2 of them got a decent payday or Michael

Jackson's estate or whatever. Got a payday.

She said she said I am the walrus obviously. I am the

Mike, yeah. That's just, you know, we're just singing nonsense words. No. You're high as

balls. And Lucy in the sky with

diamonds, which

John said was written about a drawing that Julian

did. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is it Not so much. Mike

give me a break. I don't know.

Not exactly the most meaningful. Right. But

Lucian is Mike, what does it mean? Well, it means that, you know,

John was taking a little trip to the 6th dimension over there. What about Judy

in disguise with glasses? That that was definitely

definitely not on LSD. That's the Square's version. Yeah.

Yeah. That's that's for all the straights.

I mean, some more famous LSD songs, White Rabbit by Jeff Oh, good.

That's Dennis. I was shocked. Right. You think that was about you know, white

because it's Alice in Wonderland, you're following the rabbit, you know Right. Down the

hole. No. There's, the Blue Man Group has a really cool part of

their live show that they do with that song where it's, like, the

the lighting and the, you know, the whole visualization kind of

thing. It's I'm I I I think it's it's something that these drugs are called

psychedelics. Right. And the music was called psychedelic. There you

go. So I mean sex drugs are right. I mean, how did

this chemical influence our culture? White rabbit I mean,

tomorrow never knows obvious. I mean, when you talk about influence our culture, tomorrow never

knows. We just said is that it's a song that's made

tens of 1,000,000 of dollars. White Rabbit's been

played in every movie about Vietnam that exists.

And, a song called Sugar Town by Nancy

Sinatra. So Frank's daughter was dropping the

a. The Grateful

Dead, obviously, they Mike that was that was What?

They they would they they had live shows they call acid tests in

the 19 sixties. And, the everybody was just

expected to be on acid during the show. That was just the

kind of thing that the dead They don't let you in on the sewer. And

there's a song, you know, Lakeshore Drive too,

which, you know, it could be about that lovely, you know, road in

Chicago, or it could be about

LSD. Nice. Oh, I got it. Clever. Yeah. Lakeshore Drive.

That's what they were into. And then when we get into the the modern era,

I mean, rave culture, UK dance culture and everything.

I mean, they have a whole. Oh, man. Yeah. Raves for sure. Genre

called acid house. Yeah. Music you know, and trip

hop and the whole idea. And, I

mean, the whole idea of so another great grateful deadline. What

a long strange trip it's been. And I I think that's

because at the end of an LSD trip, people often say they feel like

they've gone on a journey. Okay. Yeah. That would make sense. And so that's why

they like to do it with other other people and things like that. And so

they feel a connection to those people even if it was just an 8

hour, 10 hour journey or something like that. Well, they could read each other's

minds. You know? According to George Harrison, he could read each other's minds. So? I

mean, people do experience a a thing, there is a a

knowing, I guess, when people look at each other and stuff, and and they can

say, like, oh, there's a, there's some I mean, reading each obviously, George

was being poetic there as a as an artist would want to be.

Because if people could actually read each other's minds, then we'd all be dropping acid

all the time just to figure out what the hell I was thinking. I would

do it just to figure out what women were thinking. But, I mean, if

there there could be, like, a psychic connection that is enhanced

by a drug, you know? Yeah. And that Yeah. You know, that's something that

because LSD has finally been legalized to do research with again.

Yeah. Yeah. We're doing research tonight. I gotta do I gotta do a

report. Yeah. My report's tomorrow. I mean, it's it's not legalized as in we can't

order it off the Internet now or whatever. Like, but researchers can finally use

it again. Okay. Because the thing is being

emblematic of the anti war movement and the counterculture, it

gets made illegal because that's the way

to get back at the hippies. That's the way to get back at the antiwar

movement. And LSD doesn't eve I mean, it gets

a schedule 1 drug. Yeah. So on the if you look at the

schedule, it's funny that the that the drugs most associated with the hippies are

the ones with the severest penalties. Marijuana,

which is now legal in 3 states Yeah.

But hasn't been legal at all for a long time.

Right. For 70, 80 years. And, LSD are both in the

schedule one as the worst. Okay? Ope even opiates like

morphine and, narcotics like cocaine are in schedule 2.

Really? Yeah. So it's Mike I wonder why the

government decided to make those things illegal right at the end of 19

sixties and have, like, the super harsh punishments for them.

The war on drugs, what could it be? I mean, it was Nixon's war on

hippies. And, of course, that was his political enemy, so that's what he decided to

do. But we couldn't do research on LSD

for 30 some years because of it. And so now it's

legal again. People can do research. People can at least try to

see, how, you know, we can study its effects on humans and and

things like that, and and we'll see what, you know, effect

it has on artists and everything like that going forward. You know? Yeah. It'll be

interesting now that it's back. Or even, like, what types of research

you know, what types of results come from the research that is now

legally able to be done? Yeah. I mean, just the idea that, you know, people

couldn't even do research on something when it was something that the CIA and it's

sure. The CIA can use it on prostitutes, but professors can't use it for research.

No problem. It's clear there's there's a lot of questions remaining about it.

So that research could be Yeah. Very valuable. Exactly. And

so, yeah. I mean, LST, it's just a very interesting thing. It's

a very modern phenomena and, we'll

see what effect it has on art. And maybe we'll revisit in a later

episode some more songs and movies and everything like that because LSD has put

so many films. Like, it's been such a I mean, a lot of

things. I I used to work at a a restaurant

back in back in high school at the end of high school. This is called

Heaven City restaurant. And the owners were big dead hits.

Okay. And the chefs

were all doing LSD. And they would talk about, like I remember

1 guy, like so so I was sitting there at the bar. I wasn't drinking

at the bar or anything like that. I was 18 years old. Sitting at the

bar with the chef. And it was after Having a Coca Cola? Yeah. I well,

actually, I was having a Coca Cola. And we were dividing

up the tips, and I was talking to this one of the chefs or the

assistant, not the main guy. But he was just like, oh, man. Where do you

think all our great ideas come from? He's like,

acid, man. He's like, that's how we get so creative. And I'm like,

what do you mean? He's like, no. Alright. And then I'm like, okay. Well,

I heard that if you take it more than 7 times, you can be declared

legally insane. He's like, then call me crazy,

brother. And

I'm making him sound like a goober. You know? Oh, man. It's crazy.

He wasn't that he he was a He joined it. That was what I was

saying. He was a stoner stereotype.

But these guys did their jobs. They did everything. And they advocated it

for creativity Yeah. In the kitchen. Yeah. Now I wouldn't trust myself on LSD

in kitchen or something like that. I think I'd probably burn the place down, but

these guys could do it. And it was just funny because that was my first

when somebody say, like, drugs, drugs. You know, and you'd be Mike, yeah.

You're doing LSD in the kitchen. And I'm like, oh my God. I'm

terrified. And they're just like, it's cool, man.

This is I was working there when Jerry Garcia, the guitar

player from the Grateful Dead, passed away in 1995. That's right. I remember

that. It was a day of tragedy. It was it

was probably, like, everyone wearing black and In in that particular restaurant, it

totally was. Like, every everybody, like, stopped and went out to go smoke

weed to feel better Yeah. And then just left, like, the bus boy with the

rest of the because I'm Mike, where's the waiters? Where's my food? I don't know,

man. I'm just the guy that brings the water.

But we'll talk more about Heaven City because it's got a ton of ghost stories.

That was haunted. Absolutely. There's some ghost stories about it. Is it a coincidence? And

I think not. Alright. Alright. Well, Well, that was a

good, enlightening topic. Enlightening, I think, is an

excellent way to describe it. I learned some things, And,

we will make sure to put notes up online at

othersidepodcast.com/12. Absolutely.

Hope everybody has wonderful weekend. And we'll see you on

Tuesday. Show notes

for today's episode can be found at othersidepodcast.com/12.

Oh, put your headphones on for this week's original sunspot song.

This one's dedicated to all those who journey to the center of their

minds. This one's called psychonaut.

Thank you for listening to today's episode. You can find us

online at othersidepodcast.com. Until next

Mike. See you on the other side.