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Marketing with Personality - with Maddy Shine
Episode 21617th May 2024 • Bring Your Product Idea to Life • Vicki Weinberg
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Today on the podcast I am delighted to welcome Maddy Shine. 

Maddy Shine is a small biz business mentor and visibility expert who helps women-owned business legends grow their businesses by becoming more visible. She has helped thousands of clients get more visible through teaching her free and paid online programs and membership community Visible Vibes.

She has been described as actual human sunshine - you can even use her GIFs which have been used over 690 million times! Maddy believes it's up to us to find and get booked by those who want to work with us. Maddy also runs a second brand Sassy & Soft designing WordPress websites and SEO projects for women-owned and queer friendly businesses.

Maddy joined me on the podcast a few years ago to talk about SEO, and today is here to talk about marketing with personality. We discuss what marketing with personality means, how that applies to you and your brand, and you can use this to make your business more visible. 

It’s a really inspiring conversation, as Maddy is so passionate about the importance and positive impact when women running their own businesses are visible. I know you will come away energised and excited to talk more about your product business. 

The Bring Your Product Idea to Life Podcast  - Best Business Podcast Award, Independent Podcast Awards 2023


USEFUL RESOURCES:


Maddy Shine Website

Maddy Shine Instagram

Maddy Shine TikTok

Maddy Shine LinkedIn

Visible Vibes Community

Sassy and Soft Website

Maddy’s Previous Podcast Episode: Using SEO To Get Your Products Found


This episode is sponsored by Aubergine Legal

Do you sometimes worry that your business isn’t meeting all its legal compliance requirements and wonder if you are ticking all the legal boxes?  Are you losing sleep worrying about a piece of legislation that you might not be complying with?  Perhaps you need some help with your client contracts or your data protection compliance?  Or maybe you worry that your website doesn’t have the right documents or legal notices in the right place?  Perhaps you have a brand that you want to protect with a trademark?  

 Do you want to outsource it all and eliminate your worries?

 Then get in touch with Aubergine Legal, a friendly commercial legal consultancy.  Offering practical and clear commercial legal advice without the overwhelming legal jargon.  Taking the worry away and helping you to protect your business and minimise your risks. Aubergine offers a free initial 30 minute consultation if you have any questions or want to find out how they can help.

Aubergine Legal Website

Get In Touch with Aubergine Legal

Aubergine Legal Blog

Aubergine Legal Shop which includes FREE Cookie Guide, FREE Business Start Up Legal Checklist, and paid for resources including a Guide on Selling to the USA


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Join my free Facebook group for product makers and creators

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Buy My Book: Bring Your Product Idea To Life

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Mentioned in this episode:

This episode is sponsored by Cara Bendon Brand Consultancy

If you need branding & packaging for your product, Cara is my go-to. She and her team create beautiful and unique branding so that your product will impress retailers, stand out on the shelf and look great online. They also offer packaging and e-commerce website design, so that you can get everything set up and ready to launch, confident that it looks brilliant. If you’d like to chat to Cara about branding for your business, she’s offering a free no-obligation call for my listeners.

Book a free 30-minute call with Cara Bendon

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Transcripts

Speaker:

Welcome to the bring your product idea to Life podcast.

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This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling products or if you'd

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like to create your own product to sell. I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product

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creation coach and Amazon expert. Every week I share friendly,

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practical advice as well as inspirational stories from small businesses.

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Let's get started.

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Hello. So today on the podcast, I am delighted to welcome Maddy Shine.

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Maddy is a small business mentor and visibility expert who helps women

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owned businesses, businesses grow their businesses by becoming more visible.

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Maddy actually joined me on the podcast, oh, I want to say a few years

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ago now to talk about SEO. And today she's here to talk about

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marketing with personality. She's going to explain what marketing with

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personality means, how that applies to you, how that applies to your brand,

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and how you can help yourself and your brand be more visible. So I

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would love now to introduce you to Maddy.

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So, hi, Maddy. Thank you so much for being here. It's wonderful to be

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here. Thank you for inviting me back, Vicki. You're so welcome. And so, as you

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have alluded to, you have been on the podcast once already. If you don't

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mind, I'm going to ask you to reintroduce yourself. Tell us all who

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you are. Tell us about your business, what you do and who you support.

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Absolutely. So my name is Maddy Shine. Sadly, not the name I was born

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with, but that's the name that most people know me by. I am

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a blue haired marketing SEO small business

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mentor who I work mainly with women who run their own

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businesses. And I've been going twelve years

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now and I offer all sorts of different services

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to help women. I educate them. I also

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do services for them with my brand, sassy and soft.

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And so I really try and help in as many ways as possible so that

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women can run their own businesses in a way that works for

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them. Amazing. Thank you. So today we're going to

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be talking about marketing and marketing with personality

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more specifically. But let's start off with a really

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basic question, which is why do we need, when I say we, I mean

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women. So why do women need to be visible and make ourselves

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and our businesses visible? Beyond the obvious, obviously, we all need to

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sell things. Yes, absolutely. Well, the thing is,

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we really need to be working on our visibility, particularly as small businesses,

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because, you know how we all love to say, support small business, shop

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small, all this kind of thing. Well, actually,

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without kind of reasons to back that up, then

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beyond a nice gesture, why are we really doing

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it? So I think that when we work on our visibility

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and show our personality and show our brilliant

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uniqueness. We all have it, whether we're introvert, extrovert,

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bluehead or otherwise. We all have a

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personality where we enjoy what we're doing. We

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enjoy speaking to people about what we do. And

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it's important to share that because there is so much

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awfulness going on in the world. And I think that when we

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are showing up with what we're doing, what we have built from

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scratch, and we get paid money to do that, I mean, how lucky

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are we to do that, first of all? But also because we are

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supporting ourselves, we are supporting our families.

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I just think that these stories need to be told. And that's why

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I think it's so important for particularly women who run their own businesses

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to be visible. Thank you. And, I mean, I

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know that this is something that I struggle with. Naturally. I'm quite shy. I find

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it quite hard to put myself out there, and that's just my

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reason for it. But I'm sure you have heard lots of

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reasons why many of us do struggle with making ourselves

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visible. What do you think of some of the other reasons that people

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hold back on doing this? Well, let's not forget

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that it was only possibly two generations ago where this would be a

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frankly unheard of thing. We are pioneers. This is still

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a very. In the grand history of time, this, you know,

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women being visible sort of thing is quite new.

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Sure, women were, you know, were sent out to earn money for the family and

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all that kind of stuff. That's not new. And let's not forget all the unpaid

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labour that women do. But the whole

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concept of actually using our voices,

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speaking up, putting ourselves out there, people listening to

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our opinions, us like, you know, becoming leaders, this is all

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relatively new. And I think that women do struggle with that because

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the concept of a confident woman is still so

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unpopular in so many different worlds

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and still so frowned upon, even

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if people are sort of, you know. Oh, yeah, no, I love a confident woman.

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I love a strong woman or whatever that's still considered to

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be. To look like a certain way, you know, so,

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you know, certainly not shy and certainly

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not, you know, introvert or anything like

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that, you know. And I think that when we actually

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do kind of move forward with confidence,

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then we can sort of start to see, oh, look at all the things that

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are possible. But at the same time,

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we haven't been told that many things are possible. What we've been told is that

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we'll face trolling, we'll face going viral for wrong reasons. We'll

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face ridicule and we worry about

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the risks involved. So it's really important to me to show

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that there are so many different ways to look being

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to be visible rather than

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get focused on those reasons why we're not.

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That makes a lot of sense. And I think another thing that I certainly have

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in mind, and I'm sure others do as well, is that fear of the

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feedback that you might get from putting yourself out there. It

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feels very vulnerable, actually. Absolutely. I mean, I speak

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to people all the time who are worried about asking for reviews from,

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you know, from customers. So, you know, it can really kind of go

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down to those kind of details as well, where people are so worried just

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to send that automated follow up email, you know, would you like to leave a

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review on Google? Would you like to leave a review on Amazon Etsy, wherever they're

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selling? And I think that's so, you know, it kind of breaks

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my heart in a way, because actually, you have put your heart and soul into

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making these products, into selling these products whenever it is you're selling. And

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actually, when you're, when you know, what do

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you think of it? Have you, did you enjoy it then? Actually, the

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customer is, you know, very likely to say, yes, I love

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your product. I'm very. It's completely, not only is it fit for purpose, but it's

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great and everybody loves it or whatever it is you're selling. And so I

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think actually giving people the opportunity to show their

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love and appreciation is actually

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a bigger way, a sort of slightly more expansive way

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than, oh, God, I'm scared to ask for

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feedback because what if they

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hate it? To be honest, customers who hate things will tell you

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anyway, won't they? Let's face it, we've all had unhappy

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customers, unfortunately. But if you ask for feedback and they haven't given

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it already, that, you know, then either they're going to say, here's how

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much I love and appreciate your product, or they're going to say

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maybe some kind of suggestion which actually would be really useful and will only

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ever improve what you're doing, or they're. Not going to bother.

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That's the other one. That isn't it. Or they're going to do anything at all.

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They're just going to put it in. The junk and move on with their day.

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Because that's true as well, isn't it? Because sometimes we can feel the fear about

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doing some of these things, but actually, to the person on the other end, it's

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such a small thing because I get loads of these emails, you know,

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will you review this and that? And if it's a small business, I always do.

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But equally, it's not a big event for me to get

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an email from someone saying, please leave me feedback. I either will or I won't.

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And most nine times out of ten I will,

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but it's not an event. But I think for those of us on the

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end of having to ask for this feedback, it feels, I think we play it

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up a little bit to be bigger than it is, maybe, for sure. I mean,

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this is a good example. I get constant automated emails from

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delivery companies, not the company selling, sending out the

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product, the delivery company saying, how is your delivery

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experience? Well, obviously I'm not going to respond to that.

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Until last Sunday at 07:30 in the morning,

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I got a delivery of my toilet paper from

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this lovely eco company. I've been buying them from years on subscription,

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but they've never delivered at 07:30 on a Sunday morning before. So obviously it

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woke me up. And when I got the how is your

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delivery? I wrote a very stroppy email saying, well, I

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don't expect to be woken up at 07:30 on a Sunday morning,

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thank you very much. And to be fair, they sent an email

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almost immediately back, I'd say within the hour saying,

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really sorry, these are our hours operation

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and this is how we can deliver an efficient service. I'm sorry, blah, blah. So

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it was just like, okay, fine, I know you're not going to like, change your

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policy, thanks to me, but, you know, I did want to just have a space

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just to say I'm not happy about being woken up at

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30 on a Sunday morning. And I think that's very sad as

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well. Thank you. So one of the reasons obviously

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we need to be visible is because we need to let people know what it

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is that we're selling. But I think yet another thing that can hold lots

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of us back, and I'm speaking again from experience here, is

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when you have something to sell, it can feel a bit cringey and a bit

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awkward to talk about the thing you have to sell. And I know that's silly,

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but I also know I'm not the first person to say this, so how

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can we sell our products without

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feeling a bit yucky about it? Well, again,

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it comes back to reframing. So when, you know, just like I was

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saying with the review, feedback, email and kind of panicking about

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what they might say and actually giving them the space to either ignore it or

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love and appreciate it, then actually it comes down to, that's the same

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thing when you're coming down to what you say on your website about the product

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or what you say on your social media, emails or anywhere else that you might

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be marketing. So really what you can start to think about

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is think about those really happy customers. That's the thing that when I'm

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getting like, oh, God, no one's going to want to hear me going on and

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on about this again, you know, because we all get it. It's only natural

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because, again, it's relatively new for us to show off like this,

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essentially. And so, actually, when we think about the happy customers, the

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ones who can't get enough of what we

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buy, you know, what we sell and, you know, they have left good

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reviews and they have used lovely language. We can use

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that language, but also we can keep them in mind when we

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are putting ourselves out there and when we're talking about why other

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people, because there'll be other people like that happy customer out there who

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are desperate to know about our products. They just don't know about us yet.

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And so when we are talking about it and trying to find that confidence to

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do that, then that will make it slightly

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easier. I'm not going to say it's radically changed overnight, but it'll make it slightly

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easier every time you do it, every time you show up to talk about

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your beautiful products. That's really helpful.

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Thank you. So we said right at the beginning we were going to talk about

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marketing with personality. Yes. So, Maddy, what does that mean?

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What does that mean? Well, the thing is, you know, when, you know, when you're

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at, you know, out for drinks with friends or

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you're at a dinner with friends or whatever, and

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they ask you about your business, of course, because that's what good

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friends do. And then they'll sort of say, you know, that they'll get

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you started on something. And we've all been there when we're completely, you know, we

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might have had a glass of wine and we kind of go off on one

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about this particular product that we're making or something, a new

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idea that we've got kind of on the go or something like that.

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What I'm talking about is getting that kind of stuff out there in your

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marketing platforms so you don't have to radically develop

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this kind of confident, you know,

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strong personality. If that is not your natural vibe, if it is, great. But

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if it isn't, and particularly if it isn't, then I think that that's when

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people kind of go, oh, marketing with personality, that's what that means. And

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actually what we're doing is we're just finding a way that feels comfortable

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for us. But at the same time, you're still working on a marketing

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plan and whatever, again, whatever that plan looks like to you.

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So you might be thinking about, well, why do

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people love what we do? Why do you know? And then

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sort of coming at it from that kind of enthusiasm rather

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than the worried about what people think. And I

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think that's the really solid kind of base for what I mean by

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marketing with personality. And the next thing I was thinking about

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was when you're at markets, and I

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keep seeing those jokey reels about the different kinds of customers that show up

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at market stalls, the ones who show interest and ask questions

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but still don't buy. But actually, when you're thinking about all those

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questions that people ask you whether they buy or not, that's

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all juicy fodder, if you like,

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for marketing with personality, because that's all personal to

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you. That's all personal to you and your

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products. And I think that sometimes when we get

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kind of caught up in, well, you know, what do you want from me? It's

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a mug. If you want the mug, great. If you like drinking tea, buy a

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mug. But actually, it's like, how was it made? How were the

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colors chosen? What kind of branding is it? Is it for, you

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know, is it clearly for quirky people or is it for color lovers? Is it

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for, is it dark? You know,

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whatever it might be, you're looking at the unique aspects. And I think

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that particularly with small businesses, we

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get caught up in this idea of the saturated market. Oh,

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well, there's loads of people doing what I do now, so, you know, you can

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get a bit demotivated. But this is where marketing with

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personality comes into play. Because if we're

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not using our personality, if we haven't got that,

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basically, if we haven't, if we're not creating that unique brand for ourselves, because that's

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what I'm really talking about, then we're only ever going to compete on

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price, and then it's just a drive to the bottom because we can't

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compete with mass producers. We're small

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businesses. So I think that would be where to start

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with that. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And as you were talking, I

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was reflecting on the fact that obviously, I interviewed loads of product

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businesses on this podcast, and I interview people who

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sell all kinds of things, but I can have a few people

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on who sell the same products I've had quite a few guests on who sell

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jewelry and every one of them, the impression I have of

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them and their company and their products will be different because of

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what they've told me and what's important to them and the story

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and how they got started and why they got started,

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all of that. I think that I was reflecting when you were speaking,

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that's the kind of the, that's the kind of thing we're all interested in. I

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can't tell you how many times I've bought something of someone because I've introduced them

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for the podcast and I've just been like, oh, I love the fact that you

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did this because of that. I love you inspired by this, or you retrain.

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Whatever it is, you hear someone's story and instantly there's a bit

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of a hook there. And it's, it's really interesting. And I

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think, I think maybe that

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part of what you're talking about is just finding a way to talk about your

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products or an aspect of your product or your business or you

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that people are interested in. Yes, absolutely. Your

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story is such a big part of it because, well, that's

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partly why you know them well enough to interview them on your podcast,

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because they have developed a clear brand. They've got the story out there.

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They're telling those stories. They're telling their why. They're showing their

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why. You know, I love to talk to businesses

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where it's really clear what their story

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is, why they exist. I was talking to

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this company the other day and their entire

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business is secondhand kids clothing, which is amazing. And

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now they've just started a rental branch of it as

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well. There's going to be a real story

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there and that people can emotionally invest

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in. And I think that's, again, why the marketing with

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personality is how you can win over

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brands who are not doing this, no matter what kind of size of

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business you are or how long you've been going. And

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I think that this is one of the reasons the podcast is great for this,

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is that you're hearing people tell their story in their. I don't know. I

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would say that because we are recording this world podcast, I do think it's true.

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There's something about hearing people tell their story or talk about their products or their

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business in their own voice and their own words. You really

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get a sense of them. And it's probably why it's my favorite way of

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finding out about new people, new businesses. But

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for those of us who maybe, you know, because going on a podcast and being

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interviewed absolutely isn't for everyone. So what other

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ways do you think there are for businesses to sort of

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inject some personality into their marketing if perhaps

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you're, you're introverted or, you know, you don't want to maybe be on a podcast?

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Maybe you don't even want to be on video. Maybe you don't even want to

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show your face. How else can we do

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this? You can tell your story in your social media captions

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if you don't want to show your face, if you don't want to do video

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yet, or if you want to mix it up, tell your story in the video.

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In the social media captions. I cannot tell you how many social media

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posts I read. And I'm just like, they clearly

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spent so long on the graphic that they just couldn't be bothered with the caption

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or whatever it might be. Or they just thought,

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we're assuming too much of what the reader knows and

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remembers. And so, you know, we all, we all scroll, don't we?

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We all scroll. We don't press like, on everything. We probably look on quite a

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few different accounts, all that kind of stuff. Or we look on our explore

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page and we're just browsing. And I love

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the ones where people tell stories. And that can be as

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simple as using the adjectives that

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happy customers have used to describe your products within that story.

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It could be just simply how you made it. You could keep it super

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simple. Heck, you could even use AI to help

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you tell that story. I wouldn't say make. Let I tell them, make up the

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story, put a draft version in and let them maybe

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jazz it up a bit. But with,

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if you're wondering where to start with that, that's where I would start telling the

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stories. More on your social media captions. Another way to start with that

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video. Emails. Set up that email list. I started my

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email list with 16 people ten years

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ago. And, you know, I really,

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you know those people because I emailed them regularly. They would then tell

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other people and so on and so on. So that word of mouth became really

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strong because I was chatting away in my

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emails. I wasn't kind of, you know, getting head up on

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the structure and the conversion rates and the open rates, everything.

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I was just sending it out until it started growing and that

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it did. So there's different ways to do it. But then, of

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course, with video, you don't have to show your face. You

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could just do voiceover on the video and that could be for stories,

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reels, TikToks, whatever videos you're doing. But I do think

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it's important for, you know, to

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acknowledge your progression as you create different types of

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content. And what I really like to do is encourage people to

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play around and find out and if you really hate it, delete it.

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Like no one's going to know, it's absolutely fine. But really

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playing around with different types of content and having a look at going, oh,

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maybe I could do a piece of content like that that I saw Joe bloggs

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do over there and really sort of seeing, particularly the

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voiceover. I think that's a really great way to, again, inject some

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personality and really kind of say, oh, right, okay, so they're like a nice,

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calm brand. Great. That's, you know, that's exactly what I want from my

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scented candle or whatever it might be, or, oh, look,

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they, I saw a business yesterday. They repurpose

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broken paddling pools and inflatables and they make

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handbags out of it. I mean, that's amazing. But as you'd expect, the

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maker was doing a video and she had colorful hair and she was talking

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very enthusiastically and all this kind of thing. So it was all very

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on brand. So I thought, great, because there's a story there and there's

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personality. So really there's all sorts of different. Ways to do

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it that makes sense. Thank you. And I liked your point as well

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about looking at content and getting inspired by other people's content as

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well. Absolutely, yes.

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Who is it that said there's no such thing as an original idea? I mean,

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I don't know how true that is, but I do think that we are allowed

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to be inspired by other people without directly copying

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them. And in fact, I love that feature on reels

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where you can remix a reel. So I've actually just recently had a

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reel go viral, which, funnily enough, I'm not

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in. It's Elmo from Sesame street.

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But I put my own caption and I put my own

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text on it because I remixed someone else's reel.

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And I've had, I think, over 8000 saves of that reel now.

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So, you know, that kind of visibility is obviously going to be

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really important to me. Yeah, I can

:

see that. And I forgot about the remixing. I've never remixed a meal a reel,

:

as you can probably tell. I forgot that was even a feature. But that sounds

:

like a nice way, perhaps to start using reels as well, to use

:

something else as a starting point. Absolutely. Because I love making

:

people laugh this funny clip of Elmo really shows off my

:

brand personality as well as giving some useful information in the

:

caption. And I've got a few others saved as well. Like, I

:

love SNL, so I've got a few reels of those saved that I'm going

:

to remix at some point. I found another Elmo one, you

:

know, so it really kind of helps give an indication. I think memes

:

and clips like that can also really help show off your brand

:

personality as well. That's a really good point.

:

Now, you've said that the clips that someone chooses to share,

:

especially on a business account, does give you a good indication

:

of who that person is, what they like, what their personality is, what their sense

:

of humor is, perhaps. Exactly. You know, from that,

:

from that kind of content that I am a joyful,

:

optimistic sort of person, you know, that I am not going to be

:

this serious corporate, minimalist

:

kind of brand. Not that there's anything wrong with that. You just know that I'm

:

not going. To be that and coming off track a little bit. I'd also like

:

to say that we get that from your website as well, Maddy, which will be

:

linked in the show notes for anyone who wants to look. Your website

:

is very, very different to, I want to say, any website that

:

I've looked at for someone who does similar to what you do, if you see

:

what I mean, your website is really distinct. It's got a lot of personality.

:

Before I even spoke to you, I had a strong sense of what kind

:

of person you would be through your website. So is that something else

:

we should be thinking about? When we think about marketing with personality, should our

:

websites be an indication of that personality

:

or. Not necessarily. I'm curious. I'm a massive

:

fan of having a strong brand, but I should

:

say this, I did not start off with that kind of brand. That is

:

so much pinterest planning on secret boards of

:

what kind of branding I, you know, and when I say branding, I mean

:

it was the style of photography because there is like kind of big

:

extrovert, you know, it's me in a pub with blue

:

hair, space buns, quite casual these

:

days, but really kind of, you know, with a powerful

:

stance but relaxed. I like to call it sassy and soft. That's why I

:

named my second brand. And with

:

my strong branding, I really wanted it to feel like a. A

:

welcoming bar, you know, where you could pull up a chair next to

:

me and have a good conversation. And that's really what I wanted for

:

my branding. So when you're thinking about your branding. Absolutely. Go first.

:

You know, go and speak to brand designers, because I'm no brand designer, but

:

I did work with a brand designer to develop that

:

website so that I was really clear on what kind of fonts I wanted,

:

what kind of fonts I didn't. The color scheme and all that kind of stuff,

:

and the brand photography as well. I worked with a great brand photographer for those

:

photos. So I did a lot of planning and a lot of

:

evolution over the years. And I think that's also something I wanted to bring

:

up in this chat as well, is that

:

we don't allow ourselves to evolve. We kind of say, oh, we're

:

unhappy with our website or we don't like how our Instagram aesthetic

:

looks or whatever, but actually we don't think about what we want

:

instead. And so we use that as a reason not to be

:

visible. And so what I would definitely encourage everyone to

:

do is hop onto Pinterest look up,

:

because there's all sorts, obviously, on Pinterest look up color schemes that you love.

:

And it could be from anything, take inspiration from anything. I think I got mine

:

from old photos of Madonna from the eighties,

:

from a couple of neon bars I found from America,

:

you know, and from small photos of Susan

:

Sarandon and, like, Drew Barrymore, things like that. So, you know,

:

icons from, yeah, eighties and nineties and how I really

:

wanted that to look. And, you know, it could be different for everybody.

:

But hop onto Pinterest and it's really fun. Do some vision boarding.

:

Yeah, that is fun. So when we're

:

thinking about selling products, how do we add personality

:

to our marketing? Because I think this might be something

:

where people are coming a bit unsullied. Because I think if you're a service business

:

or you have a personal brand, it can not always, but it can feel

:

easier to put some personality into what you do. I do

:

think it can possibly be harder if you're selling products,

:

particularly if you're not visible as the face of the

:

business, let's say. So you have a brand and it's

:

your brand, it's your business, but you're trying to put the products front and

:

foremost rather than yourself. I don't know if I'm wording this correctly, but

:

I think you get the gist of what I mean. How do we add personality

:

when it's all about the products? Okay, so let's take the

:

scented candle example, shall we? So

:

if I was selling scented candles,

:

I would consider how do people want to

:

feel about those scented candles and my guess is that

:

they want to have long, hot bubble baths. They want to have a relaxing

:

time of it in their home, in their home office. They want

:

to have a break from everything, all the noise. So we're thinking quite

:

calm and quiet. If they're kind of quite minimal

:

designs, I might be thinking, okay, so we'll do quite minimal

:

videos. We'll use nice classical music. We won't use

:

upbeat. We'll use kind of lo fi sounds. We'll search

:

for that on reels. We'll create video content

:

with kind of maybe beautiful textures. We'll will

:

try and invoke that sense of what people

:

want from buying that candle. And that's how you

:

can start carving out that personality for your brand.

:

Because when I say marketing personality, it doesn't have to be yours. No,

:

obviously it could look easier for me because I've got a

:

personal brand, but if it's not you, then it's actually somewhat

:

easier to develop a personality

:

for a brand that is not actually yours. So like I was just

:

describing, with that calm, quiet, beautiful music,

:

calm surroundings, you could create that

:

personality. And that's what people are buying into

:

that makes sense. And do you think there's an element there or thinking about

:

the personalities of your customers?

:

So coming back to candle example, if you have

:

a sense of who your customer is and why they're

:

purchasing from you, is there some of that goes

:

into it as well? I don't know whether there does because actually,

:

if you think about it, all sorts of different people buy scented candles. All

:

sorts of people might buy any products. And so I

:

actually quite tempted to move away from the traditional

:

client or customer avatar, if you like the customer

:

profile. I'm thinking about their values and their

:

wishes. What do they want from life? So people

:

buying a scented candle could be a woman like me who's

:

living at home alone and they have a stinky cap, but they also like

:

long, hot baths. So they're like a scented candle. Right. But

:

I also equally could be a busy mum with five kids

:

clamoring all over the shop and her yelling at her husband

:

or, you know, whatever, going, I just need five minutes peace and quiet.

:

Okay, can you all, can you just take the kids out or whatever it is,

:

you know, on a Saturday morning and the mum can, like, put down a candle

:

on and like, have some five minutes of quiet. So we're not

:

going to look the same, be the same, or live in the same area

:

necessarily. We might well do, but actually what we want

:

is that calm and quiet. And so that's the personality that you have to tap

:

into, in my opinion. Thank you. And the reason I wanted

:

to ask that does come back to what you said before about, there's a lot

:

of advice out there, and I don't hear it as much now, but certainly

:

ten years ago, you'd be hurt. You'd be told, make an avatar for your

:

customer. Think about what they're called and where they shop and what they read. And

:

I'll be honest, I never did any of that because it seemed like an awful

:

lot of work, but that always was the advice. But then when you

:

try and do that and then you think about the personality of your

:

brand, I was thinking, that's actually a lot. So I think that'd be really comforting

:

for people to hear you say. And, of course, there's nothing wrong with people who

:

want. If people want to create an avatar for their customer,

:

that's all good, too, to hear you say, you don't

:

have to do that when you're thinking about how you add

:

personality to your own brand. Definitely not. I think that

:

I've always. Because I always used to wonder, like, why is that the

:

advice? And I think I might have even given that advice, and I thought if

:

I give that way back when. But

:

actually, when I start to think about what are their

:

values rather than what newspaper do they read,

:

then I tend to. I tend to get a better match

:

anyway. So I might then sell to

:

people who don't have the same values as me for, well,

:

sorry, the same, you know, news. They might not read the same newspaper as me,

:

or they might not live in the same town as what I'm thinking. So then

:

I used to think, well, where does that fit in with my ideal customer profile?

:

But actually, they have the same values as me, which is they

:

also want to learn how to take up space. They also want. They also

:

want to thrive as a woman running their own business. They, you

:

know, they might have feminist leanings, they might not. They might be

:

curious about feminist leanings, you know, all this kind of thing. So that's. That would

:

be why I'm lean. That's why I lean more into that stuff, rather

:

than, you know, she's 36, she lives in

:

Peterborough. All that jazz, I think it makes sense. I think

:

it's just looking at the other way around, which is if you build a strong

:

personality for your brand, you will attract people who have the

:

same values and possibly the same interests, depending on what your brand

:

personality is, rather than doing it the other way around and trying to

:

create a brand personality for a

:

customer avatar who may or may not exist. Exist, yeah,

:

for sure. I mean, so I haven't even mentioned my gifts yet, but

:

in lockdown, I learned to create gifs of myself

:

and I learned how to get them visible

:

on the Internet, and they continue to go viral. So they have been

:

seen, I think, over hundred million times now, which is

:

kind of wild. I can't really, like, envisage that number, but, yeah, that's

:

what. That's what I'm told by the stats. It's a big number.

:

Right. But I know that when clients or

:

friends or friends of clients or, you

:

know, clients of friends, whatever, they. I'm being used in all

:

sorts of different meetings, discussions, conversations, and I often get

:

tagged. And then I. Then there's another sort of aspect

:

of, oh, well, that's Maddy. She likes to, you know, be optimistic

:

and joyful, and that's what her gifts are and that's why they've gone so

:

popular. Not always, of course. You know, like, celebrities have used

:

my gifts, obviously not knowing that is I.

:

And of course, there's no way I can message them because they're never going to

:

read their dm's from people they don't follow. Right. So. But

:

no, it's all sorts of different ways to help

:

that idea of who you are and what you do out there.

:

Particularly. Particularly if you don't want to get your face out there.

:

Conveying that concept of what you're selling

:

is just as important as the product. That's really

:

helpful. Thank you. And I also think it's really helpful to know that you and

:

your brand can have entirely different personalities.

:

I think that's also really useful and hopefully reassuring as

:

well. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Although I would say

:

this when you're selling, so I know one of

:

my clients is sells country living products. So

:

horses, dogs, gardening, all those kinds of things. She makes

:

them and personalizes them, and it's amazing. And

:

she is very much a fan of all those things. That's why she wanted to

:

create that business. That's why she's very passionate about it. So I

:

would just be wary if you're looking at selling products

:

and, you know, maybe I'm wrong, so forgive me if I

:

am, but it usually there is a strong overlap. I call it like

:

a Venn diagram, you know? So your personality probably shouldn't

:

be, your own personality probably shouldn't be radically different from what it is you're trying

:

to sell because otherwise it's not going to work. Yeah, absolutely. I think I was

:

thinking more along the lines of you could be quite an introverted,

:

quiet person, but maybe the products that you're selling,

:

your brand could be quite bright and loud and colorful,

:

perhaps. I think I was meaning more like that because you're absolutely right. I mean,

:

if you are, I don't know, very big on sustainability

:

and you're selling, I don't know. So I can't think of a good example. Plastic

:

straws. But you know what I mean. Yeah. Then that doesn't

:

fit. So I think, absolutely. I think your business values and your

:

brand values need to align. But I think there is a bit of space with

:

a personality that maybe if you are quite shy, for example, you could have a

:

bit more fun with Persona of your brand.

:

Yes. I think it's also interesting, just if you do

:

sell at markets as well and sell in real life, to also keep that

:

in mind, because then people might have an expectation,

:

I suppose, of, oh, okay, so you've got a bright and quirky

:

brand. But then I've met a lot of bright, quirky introverts, actually,

:

so forgive me, I'll stop talking.

:

The story is really interesting, though, because you do get an eye. You do have

:

sometimes, whether we want to admit to this or not, we do sometimes have

:

preconceptions of what x person will be based on

:

their brand, their products, what we've seen online. Yes, I think we

:

do. We do. Yes. And it's not. And it's not always what you'd

:

expect. No, definitely not. Definitely not. Sometimes it's fun to blow up people's

:

expectations. Oh, yeah, definitely. So,

:

Maddy, thank you so much for all of everything that you

:

shared. I think this is really useful. I think it's a lot to think about

:

as well. Actually, one final question before my

:

final question. So the penultimate question is, so do you think

:

that for a product's business, it's okay to not

:

put yourself front and center of your business if that

:

doesn't. If that doesn't work for you. So when we talk about your brand

:

personality, is it okay to be the founder of a brand and actually

:

let the brand lead and keep yourself a bit quieter?

:

Absolutely. I give you full permission to do that as long as you do push

:

the brand personality. So there's like a caveat to my answer,

:

because what I've noticed is I have, you

:

know, I meet business owners because, of course, you know, down the pub

:

even, I get into conversation with people and say, oh, I run my own business.

:

I make beauty products or something like that. And I'm saying, okay. What

:

kind of marketing do you do? And they do the most stunning photography. They

:

really do this one particular business I have in mind, and they'll

:

never show their face, and that's their style. Absolutely fine.

:

But they're not pushing what they are doing

:

enough. So I'm not saying it's not good enough. It's

:

beautiful. But they need to be looking at other ways

:

to push that and develop that brand

:

personality now that they have the beautiful photograph. So

:

I think I would just say if you want to detach

:

yourself from that and not be the face of your brand, absolutely fine.

:

But make sure you're really pushing the stuff that you are doing.

:

That's really helpful. Thank you. And so finally, Maddy, my

:

real final question. What would your number one piece of advice be

:

for marketing with personality? To

:

play around with different styles,

:

different platforms, and find out what

:

works for you before you start finding

:

out, you know, before, before you burn yourself out trying to find what

:

works for other people. Because without you, there is no business. And that's what

:

the main thing is. That's really good advice. Thank you. Because it can be too

:

easy to think, oh, I should be on this platform because so and so is

:

doing that, or I should create gifts because Maddy's done it or whatever the

:

thing is. So, yeah, that's really good advice. Thank you so much.

:

Thank you. Thank you so much for

:

listening. Right to the end of this episode, do remember that you can get the

:

full back catalog and lots of free resources on my website,

:

vickiwineberg.com. Please do remember to rate and review this

:

episode if you've enjoyed it and also share it with a friend who you think

:

might find it useful. Thank you again and see you next week.

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