How a nanotechnologist's passion for cutting-edge science fueled her embrace of Bitcoin's liberating potential.

On this episode of Orange Hatter, the guest is Elly, a German-native with a PhD in nanotechnology now residing in Texas. Elly draws parallels between her work in nanotechnology and Bitcoin, expressing her intrigue for the mathematical basis of the digital currency, and how it inspired increased interest in the financial system. Elly also describes Bitcoin as fostering a sense of hope, providing a fresh perspective on humanity's capability to resolve financial issues like inflation and onerous remittance charges. The discussion then shifts to Elly highlighting the value in educating oneself and others about Bitcoin. She and her kids have even designed an educational 3D puzzle model of a Bitcoin block to help visualize the digital currency's mining process. Moreover, Elly offers commentary about the choices people have in engaging with Bitcoin and traditional banking, and why having an additional option during crisis situations can be beneficial. She welcomes and validates curiosity for Bitcoin, encouraging investment exploration and the utilization of various learning resources.

00:03 Introduction to Bitcoin

00:27 Welcome to Orange Hatter

00:32 Exclusive Retreat for Women in Bitcoin

01:56 Interview with Elly

02:11 Elly's Background and Journey into Bitcoin

05:57 Elly's Bitcoin Mining Experience

07:12 Elly's Bitcoin Investment and Learning Journey

09:19 Elly's Current Involvement in Bitcoin

10:21 Elly's Perspective on Bitcoin and Nanotechnology

15:13 Understanding Bitcoin's Hash Functions

20:48 Bitcoin's Impact on Elly's Life

25:33 Bitcoin as a Financial System

37:00 Bitcoin Education for Kids

42:46 Final Thoughts and Recommendations

45:18 Conclusion and Invitation to Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club

Elly's Resources:

Pembroke Creative LLC for bitcoin block puzzles: https://www.instagram.com/pembrokecreativellc/

Bitcoin whitepaper: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Jevon's paradox: https://vimeo.com/825233128

Potential for semiconductor innovation interview at BTC Prague: https://twitter.com/EllyPembroke/status/1695069258420518995?s=20

SHA256 with paper and pencil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3dqhixzGVo

*** Check out the Orange Hatter Women's Retreat at www.orangehatter.com/yucatan ***

To learn more about Bitcoin: Join the Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.  Please email to Tali@orangehatter.com for the private telegram group and zoom link.

HODL UP is available at www.freemarketkids.com.

Remember: Knowledge is empowerment! 🍊🎩

Mentioned in this episode:

Aleia Free Market Kids Sponsorship FULL

Get your HODL UP ("The best bitcoin game ever!") at www.freemarketkids.com.

Free Market Kids Short

Get your HODL UP ("The best bitcoin game ever!") at www.freemarketkids.com.

If you just want security of using a financial system that is not controlled by

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really want to have your own car.

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path in the world of Bitcoin.

35

We can't wait to welcome you.

36

Tali: Hi, Ellie.

37

Thank you so much for

joining us on Orange Hatter.

38

I can't wait to dive into your

Bitcoin journey and find out

39

all about your background.

40

Welcome to the show.

41

Elly: Thank you, Tali.

42

I'm so glad to be here.

43

Looking forward to our conversation.

44

. Tali: Let's start by just sharing a little

bit about your background, where Did you

45

grow up maybe your educational background,

professional, just a little bit.

46

Elly: Okay, great.

47

So I grew up in Germany.

48

My mom and dad still live there.

49

My siblings live in

Germany and Switzerland.

50

I actually got to see them this summer,

which I'm really excited I got to do that.

51

But I moved to Texas when I wanted

to pursue a PhD in nanotechnology

52

and that was 15 years ago.

53

So 15 years ago, I moved to Texas

to pursue a PhD in nanotechnology.

54

And that's where I met my husband

and now we have two children

55

and we still live in Texas.

56

Nanotechnology is really

exciting to me still.

57

I finished my degree, but I could

talk about nanotechnology all day

58

because there is just something

exciting about how the world works at

59

a scale where it's smaller than what

you can see in an optical microscope.

60

But you can still make things

And measure things and observe

61

things about what you made.

62

So I innovated in nanotechnology.

63

I made computer chips out of

materials other than silicon.

64

So most of our phones and computers

have silicon chips in them.

65

And I was motivated by just the

need for innovation in that space.

66

We just need better chips and

better technologies that are not

67

necessarily made out of silicon.

68

So I made graphene based chips.

69

And graphene is a material that is

made out of carbon and it's just a

70

single atomic layer of carbon and

conducts electricity really well.

71

And you can make transistors out of it.

72

And a transistor is just a switch.

73

It can generate a zero into one.

74

And that's all that computers

know, zeros and ones.

75

I learned about Bitcoin

during graduate school.

76

And I learned about it just

the same way that people learn

77

about it now through articles.

78

I believe it was a Slashdot

article at the time.

79

Just learned that there was a

white paper that someone suggested

80

to make scarce digital asset.

81

So you know how all the files

on a computer are infinitely

82

copyable and people try to enforce

copyright, but you really can't.

83

So Bitcoin just cleverly used hash

functions to create something that

84

cannot be multiplied in all infinity.

85

That there is a limited amount of it.

86

And it's not that the

file itself is limited.

87

You can infinitely copy the Bitcoin

blockchain, but what is limited is the

88

information in it is the ledger itself.

89

And how transactions are recorded

in it in a way that the transactions

90

can't be faked or copied or multiplied.

91

I just, at the time, I

thought it was really clever.

92

I thought it was really unique.

93

I had never seen anything

like that before.

94

I hadn't quite understood all

the implications or all the

95

properties of it at the time.

96

But.

97

It's just like any other innovation

or technology where you think,

98

Huh, this is really interesting.

99

Maybe I should look into

it a little bit later.

100

Gavin Andreessen set up a Bitcoin faucet

where anybody could go to that website

101

and as long as they have a wallet with

a valid Bitcoin address, they can get

102

free Bitcoin sent to their address.

103

There's nothing to lose there, so I

decided to take advantage of that.

104

That's how I got my first

Bitcoin on my wallet.

105

The wallet came with a setting

where you can mine Bitcoin.

106

So you just flip a switch, and

it uses your computer's CPU

107

to calculate hash functions.

108

and mine Bitcoin.

109

So that's what I did too.

110

It really exhausted your CPU though.

111

So I couldn't really work on my

computer while it was mining.

112

I could just mine overnight and

then work on my PhD during the day.

113

So that's what I did.

114

All of this is 2011 ish, it's early

on, but there's already an exchange

115

that's up and running, that was Mt.

116

Gox at the time, an exchange out

of Japan, that was, a little bit

117

later on spectacularly imploded.

118

But so since there was an exchange,

there was already pricing information

119

and I noticed, oh, the price is going up.

120

Maybe it's worth it to convert

some of my own savings into Bitcoin.

121

And I did that.

122

And it wasn't much cause I was a

student and I, I didn't have significant

123

funds to convert, but I felt like

even if I just put in 20, maybe it

124

will be worth something down the road.

125

And that was my entry to Bitcoin.

126

And it's been a while.

127

So I've had a chance to learn more about

What Bitcoin is, how it works, the math

128

behind it, what are hash functions,

how do they make sure that Bitcoin is

129

secure, that our transactions are going

to be processed, even though there's

130

no one that is really responsible

for processing those transactions.

131

It's just the free market that

decides which transactions get

132

processed and which aren't.

133

And I've learned more about I've markets.

134

I've learned more about

how money works in the U.

135

S.

136

More about fiat and the

banking system and history.

137

There's just a lot to learn when you

start being interested in, why is there

138

inflation and things like that, that I

just hadn't had the interest to do before.

139

Because my interest was mostly in

science and not the monetary system.

140

But once you start learning about Bitcoin,

one of the side effects of that is

141

learning about how the monetary system

works and that helps you make this

142

financial decisions down the road too.

143

So that was my journey into Bitcoin.

144

Lately I've become more interested

in sharing my story and contributing

145

to Bitcoin events such as meetups

or conferences, I help organize

146

the Atlanta Bitcoin conference, for

example, where you and I got to meet.

147

So that was a very special occasion.

148

I homeschool my children and I teach

them about Bitcoin if they want to

149

hear about it, if they don't, that's

up to them and I have become more

150

interested in how Bitcoin mining affects

both the energy industry as well as

151

the semiconductor industry, because

that is where I used to innovate in.

152

And now I'm seeing that when I

first started my PhD, all we had

153

was consumer electronics, computers.

154

We tried to make computers

better, faster, more powerful.

155

And that's what I was trying to

achieve with my graphene chips.

156

But when you have a problem, like you're

trying to make better computers and

157

that problem has the same constraints

and the same just when you're trying

158

to solve the same problem for 10 years,

it's hard to truly innovate . What we

159

have been doing is mostly optimize.

160

So we've had Silicon chips 20 years ago,

and we've optimized those Silicon chips

161

and our computers have gotten better.

162

But it's only been optimization.

163

It hasn't been real innovation.

164

Nobody has put graphene chips

into their computers yet.

165

Nobody is really deviating from the

path of just making silicon chips

166

smaller and when it comes to Bitcoin

mining, you're really solving for

167

a different set of problems than

when you're building computers.

168

Because when you're mining, you're

doing one calculation over and over.

169

It's much simpler than playing Netflix

or, video games or whatever, web browsing,

170

things like that are much more complicated

and need much more powerful chips.

171

So in Bitcoin mining, you

really don't need chips that

172

are that versatile or powerful.

173

All you need is chips that consume less

electricity because a miner just wants

174

to have fewer costs, just spend less on

electricity and get more calculations

175

out in a short period of time.

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So they need to be fast, but they

don't need to be powerful and They

177

don't need to be small either,

because you can just build a huge

178

facility in the middle of Texas and

have your calculations done there.

179

It really doesn't need to fit in

your pocket like a phone does.

180

You're really solving for a

different set of problems.

181

So you can make chips very differently.

182

You can innovate in whole different ways.

183

And that makes me excited because that

opens doors to innovation that will

184

benefit our computers eventually too.

185

And I haven't had a chance to go back into

research and , I haven't worked in a lab

186

since I graduated with my degree, but

I'm just excited for all the potential

187

that's there and I do hope that more

people talk about it more people get

188

interested in making chips for Bitcoin

mining and maybe If I get a chance, I

189

can see that as a path to contributing in

that space besides just talking about it

190

Tali: That's really fascinating.

191

And what a unique perspective to look

at Bitcoin from your point of view

192

when you're researching nanotechnology.

193

I'm just curious, going back to all those

years ago when you were first exposed

194

to Bitcoin, you mentioned that you were

immediately attracted by the fact that

195

the basic fundamentals were valuable.

196

And I'm just wondering, from your point

of view of a PhD student with limited

197

funds, but really at the cutting edge of

technology development, what did you see

198

was a parallel between the innovation of

Bitcoin and what you were trying to do?

199

Elly: So Bitcoin was an innovation

in software and I was an experimental

200

scientist in hardware, so there

wasn't really a whole lot of overlap

201

that I saw from the very beginning.

202

I saw that you needed hardware to do

the math in Bitcoin, but I haven't

203

quite connected the dots of how

Bitcoin mining could drive innovation

204

and semiconductors at the time.

205

I was just trying to make

consumer electronics better.

206

I saw Bitcoin as entirely

separate from or just another.

207

interesting development in the

world, but not really something that

208

applied to my research at the time.

209

Now I can see the connection a

lot clearer but at the time I

210

didn't really see the connection.

211

What I did see at the time, or what I

believe drew me to Bitcoin, was that

212

It wasn't just someone who decided

that Bitcoin should be valuable or that

213

Bitcoin should have certain properties.

214

The properties of Bitcoin really

emerge from the code and the math

215

itself and it's like gold in that

gold is just a physical element.

216

Nobody decided that gold

should have certain properties.

217

It had the properties first,

and then people decided that

218

those are valuable and useful.

219

And, code really doesn't

know that it's money either.

220

All it knows that It's

an irreversible function.

221

You know how 3 times 5 is 15, and

then 15 divided by 5 is 3, that's a

222

reversible function, it goes both ways.

223

Hash functions are not like that.

224

Once you hash, which a hashing

algorithm is just a very systematic

225

scramble of data, any data.

226

Once you scramble it and you

develop that fingerprint hash,

227

it cannot be unscrambled.

228

You cannot deduce from the hash

what the original file was,

229

what the original data was.

230

But You can prove what data was scrambled

because you can re scramble it and

231

you will get the same hash number.

232

And that's just a really clever way of

making things inscribed in digital stone.

233

It's, it makes an unalterable, or, you

can still alter the files, but it becomes

234

very clear when the file was altered.

235

Everybody can double check and rehash

a file to see if it was altered.

236

And it's just a really cool way

of making things last forever.

237

It's hard to know for me when exactly

I understood that piece of the puzzle,

238

but it's just cool that the properties

of Bitcoin come out of the math.

239

And then we decide that those properties

are valuable, and that's why it has value.

240

It's not because someone told us

that the dollar bill has value and,

241

or we all agreed, it's not even

a group phenomenon that we as a

242

group decided that it has value.

243

It's the properties itself incentivize us

to think that it has value because those

244

are the types of properties that we look

for when we look for something of value.

245

not alterable.

246

Tali: I think for people who are

not computer scientists, for example

247

myself it's really hard for us to

wrap our head around what you're

248

saying about the SHA function.

249

You mentioned that there's a

YouTube video that demonstrates

250

this with pen and pencil.

251

Elly: that's right.

252

Since hash functions or hash

algorithms are really just math,

253

you can do math with pen and pencil.

254

So there is a YouTube video that

you're gonna put in the show

255

notes that demonstrates, and you

don't even need to understand,

256

what the person is calculating.

257

I think it's just fascinating to see that

it can be done with pencil and paper.

258

You don't actually need computers

to do that calculation for you.

259

It's a calculation that's fairly

simple for computers to do.

260

It's not that simple for

humans, but it is doable.

261

You can do it with pencil and paper.

262

And yeah, SHA 256 just stands for Secure

Hashing Algorithm and the 256 for bits.

263

So all it does is any file that is on

your computer , that can be a video, that

264

can be a photo, it can be an Excel file,

anything that's a file, it takes up more

265

or less space on your hard drive, right?

266

Like a video takes up

more space than a picture.

267

That's just because.

268

The way that your computer stores it

is not as a picture as a video, it

269

stores it as a long string of zeros

and ones, and the video just has more

270

zeros and ones, it's a longer number.

271

tHe zeros and ones can

then be converted back.

272

So the picture is converted to 1s

can be converted back to the picture.

273

But once you have the 0s and 1s, you

break them up into what the SHA 256

274

algorithm does, is it breaks it up

into chunks of 256 bits each, and

275

systematically scrambles them together.

276

to then get the result that's 256 bits.

277

So all the information is lost from

the picture, all you get is that

278

number, and that number is like a

fingerprint of the original file.

279

So you cannot extract the original

file out of that hash in the end.

280

But it is just a number, and

256 bits is not very large, so

281

it can sit on your hard drive.

282

And As a fingerprint of that file,

which is why anybody who has a

283

terabyte hard drive can download

the entire history of all Bitcoin

284

transactions to said hard drive.

285

And, having a copy around just

signals to the rest of the

286

network that this is valuable.

287

So if 40, 000 people have a copy of

the ledger, the financial ledger of

288

Bitcoin, then if someone tries to cheat

and say, Oh, no, it was actually, I

289

actually own 10 Bitcoin when they don't.

290

There's a very easy way to double

check that, because if they have

291

those 10 bitcoins, then the file

would look different, it would have

292

a different hash, but 40, 000 people

have proof that the hash is what

293

it is yeah, , it's cool that way.

294

Tali: Yeah, see most of what you

said went over my head, but I know

295

that to a lot of people out there who

understand higher mathematics it makes

296

perfect sense because it did for Scott.

297

He was trying to explain the same

thing to me and not my, how my brain

298

thinks, but I appreciate people like

you and Scott who can get into the

299

technical nitty gritty and explain it.

300

So thank you for sharing that.

301

In terms of application, so we were

talking nitty gritty about the algorithm

302

of Bitcoin and why it's so valuable

in that the intrinsic Characteristics

303

of that algorithm is what we deem

valuable to be used as a money standard.

304

So if we jump back a little farther

and look at Bitcoin from more of a

305

functionality point of view how has

your life or even just perspective on

306

life or just viewpoints changed since

you have been in the Bitcoin space?

307

Elly: I think Bitcoin

has made me more hopeful.

308

And it's anytime I hear about

innovation that happens, people coming

309

up with new ideas, coming up with

ideas that solve real problems, it

310

makes me more hopeful for humanity.

311

And Bitcoin just solves a lot of the

problems that our monetary system has.

312

Inflation is just one of them.

313

Just real life, just transferring money

to another country and how cumbersome

314

and difficult and expensive that can be.

315

And Bitcoin solves that problem by just

making it easy and the, the costs, there

316

is a cost associated with it because you

need to incentivize miners to include

317

your transactions in their blocks.

318

But other than that, it's not,

319

it's not an arbitrary

profit that someone has.

320

I think that would be it.

321

One is that Bitcoin

really makes me hopeful.

322

And the other is Bitcoin has spurred

my interest or has guided my interest

323

towards things like the monetary system

and how the banking system works,

324

why fiat creates so many problems.

325

Those are things that I just haven't

had a chance to think about before

326

I ever got interested in Bitcoin.

327

And I think that having

that knowledge now.

328

does help me understand the

world a little bit better.

329

Tali: So the first thing you mentioned

was it Bitcoin has made you more hopeful.

330

In order for you to be more hopeful,

you had to be in a darker place before.

331

So can you just expand a little bit

about your mindset before Bitcoin

332

and maybe compare your experience

growing up in Germany versus

333

what you're witnessing in the U.

334

S.

335

in the last 15 years.

336

Elly: I don't know how to answer that

question because, just growing up as

337

a child, you don't think a lot about

money other than just that it's limited

338

and you have to budget for things, but

money as a whole how do we deal with it?

339

How are we affected by

things like inflation?

340

That's just and budgeting too, is

just something that you get a whole

341

different perspective on just by

being an adult and having to manage

342

and plan for things differently.

343

So what makes me hopeful is more of a

global scale hopeful for people who find

344

themselves in hyperinflation situations,

people who find themselves in unfavorable

345

political situations who may need to

up and leave and with Bitcoin, they, all

346

they need to do is memorize their password

and they don't need to bring anything.

347

They can flee naked across the

border , and still have all

348

their funds available to them.

349

So that's really what I mean by it

makes me hopeful because it really

350

helps people in, real life situations.

351

Um, the The way that it's

helped me is just that.

352

It's a nest egg, it's great to have

just a little bit of backup and just

353

something that I don't have to worry

about but it's I haven't been in that

354

situation where I've had to flee the

country and start over somewhere entirely

355

new with it nothing, so I haven't even

used Bitcoin for remittances, but I

356

know that a lot of people, remittances

are just part of their lives and

357

that's how they keep their family

alive in a different part of the world.

358

And having to pay fees

every time you send money is.

359

Just taking away money from your family.

360

And that's really not necessary.

361

And I am glad that there is a

technology out there that allows you

362

to send the full amount of value.

363

I'm glad that it's just

available to people.

364

If the Western Union works for you,

great, but if you want the better

365

option, there is a better option

if your bank works well for you.

366

Great.

367

If you have investment strategies

that work for you that's also great.

368

You don't have to own

Bitcoin to have a nest egg.

369

You don't have to own Bitcoin to

send money abroad, but it does make

370

things easier in some ways or better.

371

It's just a better solution.

372

You don't need anyone's

permission to use the system.

373

I've had a bank account close

that I didn't want closed.

374

My bank just informed me that

they closed my bank account.

375

That's not something that

will happen to you in Bitcoin.

376

You know, Once you have Bitcoin on your

address, nobody can close your address.

377

You're just not at the mercy of

someone else's decision making.

378

You take self responsibility and

that's just something that as an

379

adult is important to do and just

to take responsibility for your

380

own life and your own finances.

381

And I like to compare it to using public

transport versus having your own car.

382

It's like public transport might be

it's great that this is a service

383

that's provided to you and if

that works for your life, great.

384

If there's a hurricane, you

really want to have your own car.

385

You don't want to wait for a bus

when there's a hurricane coming.

386

And if there's no hurricanes

in your life That's fantastic.

387

But hurricanes can and do happen.

388

Financial political instability

can and does happen.

389

I know we live in a country where we

feel like things are relatively stable,

390

even though we experienced things

like inflation and housing crisis.

391

And there are financial crises,

so it is nice to have at least.

392

a fraction of your savings in a

place that is unaffected by those

393

potential financial future crises,

but you don't have to, it's okay.

394

If you feel perfectly fine with

using a financial system that other

395

people control then that's fine.

396

But if you are, I don't know, a control

freak, or if you just want that, the

397

extra little bit of security of using a

financial system that is not controlled by

398

any jurisdiction then Bitcoin is for you.

399

Tali: I

400

Love the analogy of the public

transportation versus your own car.

401

it's a double edged sword when

you're talking about owning

402

something yourself, right?

403

So you have full control of your

car, but you need to maintain it.

404

And so in my mind, like we were

just talking about our car troubles

405

earlier before we started recording,

I recently lost the car because we

406

neglected to maintain it properly.

407

We ran out of oil and the engine died.

408

And what are our options?

409

The car is totaled.

410

So in the same way, if we have Bitcoin

in my mind, the oil is like, education,

411

keep yourself informed, listen to

podcasts like this, listen to other

412

Bitcoin podcasts, keep informed.

413

That's like putting oil

in your engine, right?

414

Because if you lose your Bitcoin,

there is no third party for you

415

to go to and say, Hey, I forgot my

password, can you please reset it?

416

No, when your engine dies,

like my car did, it's totaled.

417

If you don't take the necessary measures

to stay informed, to be educated,

418

and you lose your Bitcoin, it's gone.

419

So it's a double edged sword.

420

And like you said, whichever one you

choose, it's completely up to you.

421

But know that there is another option

outside of the current fiat system.

422

Elly: For a lot of us who don't just keep

savings in dollars and hardly anybody

423

does anymore because there's retirement

accounts and there's real estate and

424

for those you need to be educated on

those too and that takes work . too.

425

There are financial services for any other

investment or financial security vehicle.

426

There are resources for Bitcoin where

you can just work with a financial

427

advisor that understands Bitcoin

and then they can handle it for you.

428

, there are companies that will set up

a multi sig wallet for you , and help.

429

draft all the documents that

you need to inherit your

430

Bitcoin to the next generation.

431

There's people who will walk you

through the process of securing your

432

Bitcoin where you really don't need

to know or be worried about messing

433

it up because they handle it for you.

434

There is help out there.

435

You don't have to do everything yourself.

436

If you don't even have the time or

interest or ability or financial or

437

technical expertise to see through the

jungle , that is Bitcoin, you don't

438

have to if all you understand is that.

439

Here is a monetary system.

440

Here is a place to have a piece of your

savings be independent of human decision

441

making, you of banks, governments.

442

Brokers, anybody, , if you want that

to just be secured by code, then find

443

someone who can set up a wallet for you.

444

Just put in as much as you feel you

want to protect and be done with it.

445

You don't really have to keep

maintaining that knowledge.

446

As long as you have the password

associated with your wallet, You're

447

good, and if you do find yourself In a

situation where you need to access those

448

funds then there's services for that too.

449

And you can just contact them.

450

They'll help you recover and access them.

451

So they're there are financial

services out there for Bitcoiners

452

is what I'm trying to say.

453

And you don't have to, unless you're

very interested in it, you can be your,

454

you could take the responsibility and

be your own financial service provider.

455

But there are financial service

providers in the Bitcoin space too.

456

And ,they're open to, to help

anyone who needs that help and

457

the community is great, too.

458

So it's not just financial services.

459

It's there's also bitcoin has network and

just a lot of people who are who've gone

460

through the self education and all of

that and who are happy to answer questions

461

I'm always happy to answer questions if

people want to understand the technical

462

background better or just practically

how, like, where do I even buy Bitcoin?

463

What do I do with it after I buy it?

464

There are a lot of people who are

happy to help without you even

465

needing to pay them for their help.

466

So,

467

Tali: Entering the Bitcoin space

is even just over the last year.

468

There is so much innovation happening

in this space to make Bitcoin more user

469

friendly, to make it more accessible.

470

And I just can't even begin to imagine

how difficult it was 11 years ago

471

when it was less visible, and I feel

like you almost have to be in a very

472

niche group of people in order to

have exposure to it to correctly

473

possess it, acquire it and hold it.

474

But right now There are Bitcoin

meetups popping up everywhere.

475

It's much more visible.

476

People are so open to

sharing their knowledge.

477

And there's tons and tons of

educational materials out there.

478

So you can either delegate it by

using one of the financial services

479

you mentioned or you can completely

self custody and there's a lot

480

of help for doing that as well.

481

Elly: Back in the day when I first

heard about Bitcoin, self custody

482

was the only way to have Bitcoin.

483

And I have to say that I don't think

it's just me, but , downloading

484

a wallet and typing a wallet

address somewhere wasn't that hard.

485

we're used to, downloading programs

and files from the computer.

486

It's, It's easier than online banking.

487

The wallet tells you what you need to do.

488

, you download it, you open it, it

tells you, write down these 12 words.

489

You write them down on a piece of paper.

490

Congratulations.

491

You, have now completely

cryptographically secured your funds.

492

It gives you an address to send it to.

493

And it tells you, put in that address,

if you ever need money to send to it.

494

And if you're ever at an impasse

where you're like I don't know

495

what to do with my address.

496

I don't know how to get the

Bitcoin back out of my address.

497

Then there, there's a community

that will help you answer those

498

questions, or a service that will

help you answer that question.

499

Understanding how it works technically

is one thing, but using it is really

500

quite simple, and I know swiping a

credit card is simple too, but, And

501

for Bitcoin, it's scanning a QR code.

502

It's not that hard.

503

people have built technologies

that make it quite easy.

504

Tali: Yeah, for sure.

505

I think in the beginning Scott

and I, it was a trust factor

506

because we did not understand it.

507

We didn't want to trust it

and we were just getting used

508

to online banking back then.

509

We used to, bring a check, a physical

check into a physical building and hand

510

it to a live person to deposit our check,

but then suddenly we could just take a

511

picture of it with our phone and it took

me a long time just to trust that part.

512

So now that

513

Elly: I understand, but it's really

interesting in that bringing a

514

physical check to a location is

less secure than taking a picture.

515

So it's interesting that we trusted a

system that wasn't very secure, where

516

your identity can be stolen, where,

checks can be stolen, that happened

517

to me, my checkbook was stolen, and

here's the technology that, yeah,

518

it takes a while to understand it.

519

But it's really more secure

than any of the other systems

520

that we have available to us.

521

Tali: so you've been in this

space for quite a while are all

522

your family members on board?

523

Have your orange pill?

524

All of them?

525

Elly: No, not at all.

526

They know that this is something that's

available to them and they don't trust it.

527

They just don't think it has value.

528

They don't think that they need it.

529

They are happy with , their banks

and their investments and retirement

530

accounts and everything else that

they've, that they're happy with the

531

way that they manage their money.

532

So they don't feel the need to

incorporate Bitcoin into their

533

strategy or use it for anything

because credit cards are easy enough.

534

They don't need to have yet

another way to transact.

535

And that's really the case.

536

If public transportation works just

fine you don't really need to go

537

research what car is best for your

family, how to maintain it how to

538

drive a car, learn how to drive a car.

539

Once you drive a car, it's second

nature, it's but if the public

540

transportation system works for you,

there is just, yeah it's like that.

541

And it's like the rest of our family is

using buses and we're driving a car and

542

they're, we also use the bus, right?

543

We still have bank accounts and

credit cards and all that so all

544

they see is that we also have a

car, but they don't need a car.

545

So they don't care.

546

And, we tell them that we're available to,

to answer their questions if they need to,

547

or if they complain about inflation, then

we say I know there's inflation on the

548

bus, but there's no inflation in the car.

549

It's really up to you it's your

choice , to not have a car.

550

We can help teach, how to drive a car.

551

We can help you with

how to, purchase a car.

552

, we can help with onboarding,

we can help with maintenance,

553

we can help with everything.

554

But if that's not something that you're

interested in because your current system,

555

you're happy with how you are doing things

currently, then that's your choice.

556

You're an adult.

557

You make your own choices.

558

Tali: Yeah, everybody should

have the freedom to choose.

559

And that's part of why Bitcoin is so

valuable because you get to choose to

560

participate versus our current system.

561

You're told that you must participate.

562

, Elly: we choose to participate in Bitcoin,

but we also choose to participate in

563

the fiat system because of certain

conveniences that it affords us, right?

564

So while we're actively making that

choice, for most people, that's

565

not an active choice to make.

566

And if buses become unavailable,

if the, fiat system doesn't work

567

anymore for a lot of people, that

would mean a huge inconvenience,

568

if not, just really life altering.

569

Whereas for us, it would be no big

deal, because we have that other option

570

to transact in a different currency.

571

And that's, it's good to have.

572

Tali: Yeah, definitely.

573

So you have two kids and you mentioned

before that if they want to learn

574

about Bitcoin, you'll teach them

and if they don't, that's okay, too.

575

But you guys actually worked together

and developed a very interesting

576

game to explain it to them.

577

The Bitcoin block, the blockchain would

you like to talk a little bit about that?

578

Elly: Yeah, I'm happy to.

579

Since my kids are homeschooled, they

find different ways to explore academic

580

topics or anything that they're

interested in, and so my son happens

581

to be just very interested in math

and all the different ways that you

582

can express math and show math and

how you can make art with math how you

583

can visualize or illustrate things.

584

He really plays with math I would say.

585

He was just playing around with

all the different ways to solve

586

for the trinomial expansion.

587

And he came up with a way to.

588

make a cube, because it's a

cubic equation, so you should

589

be able to show it as a cube.

590

So he made a cube and then he

split it up into smaller pieces

591

that are then the different

terms in the trinomial expansion.

592

And we 3D printed the pieces

with the correct dimensions

593

and we played around with it.

594

And everybody we showed this to

thought it was a really fun way to

595

assemble a cube out of smaller pieces.

596

And even if they don't understand

the math behind it, or it's just

597

blocks that assemble into a cube.

598

So since we noticed how much fun it

is to play around with it, we thought

599

it might be fun to have the pieces

made out of plexiglass so that they're

600

colorful and beautiful and see through.

601

And we still , 3D print the holder,

the cube holder out of PLA, but that

602

3D puzzle is now available for sale.

603

we actually sell those cubes now so

that other families can also enjoy

604

assembling a cube out of pieces

and it's a really fun 3D puzzle.

605

But we've also noticed that The cube

can be a really valuable teaching tool

606

to understand what a Bitcoin block

is . like, That it has a finite size,

607

that it's filled with transactions

that are gathered from mempool which

608

is just a general pool of transactions.

609

So if you have a Bitcoin transaction,

you just communicate it to the network.

610

And then from all of the available

transactions, a miner would then

611

assemble one block that has a limited

size and they have an incentive to

612

only include transactions that, that

carry the highest fees with them.

613

So our little Cube 3D puzzle became

teaching tool to show or illustrate

614

how miners go about assembling a Bitcoin

block out of transactions and it's really

615

analogous to, the block template being the

holder and the little acrylic pieces being

616

the transactions, it all fits together

to make one block of a finite size.

617

It's helped, we've taken the puzzle to the

Atlanta Bitcoin Conference and I've used

618

it to illustrate how Bitcoin mining works

in talks that I've given at conferences

619

and podcasts that I've participated in.

620

And generally the feedback that

I've gotten is that people understand

621

Bitcoin a little bit better now that

they have seen a visual representation

622

of what the files look like when

Bitcoin miners assemble them.

623

And if you are not the technical type,

but you like beautiful, mathematical

624

art pieces, or just a visual way , to

illustrate a complex phenomenon.

625

It's just really cool.

626

,since my son designed it

originally he's, and he helps.

627

And it's been great.

628

The kids both help with putting the

kits together in, into a box, we

629

box each puzzle still ourselves.

630

We 3D print the pieces ourselves.

631

Each is really unique that way that

the acrylic pieces are the same across

632

all the puzzles and we've had them

made professionally but a lot of the

633

assembly is still homemade and it's

great to involve the kids in the little

634

business, even though, you know, it's

not paying the bills, but It's a great

635

teaching tool for how to run a business.

636

How does the world work like that?

637

We need to pay taxes for each cube

that we sell that we need to pay our

638

suppliers that make our acrylic blocks.

639

That there's a cost associated with

it, that there's shipping costs

640

associated with it, that there's work

associated with assembling the kits.

641

And that we do want to price it in the

way that we make a profit in the end,

642

even if we pay the kids some fraction as

a commission for their design and their

643

contribution to making the final product.

644

So in a way, it's become a homeschool

project that's, that I feel that is very

645

valuable in preparing you for being an

adult and how do businesses work, but

646

at the same time, other families get to

enjoy the puzzle playing around with it,

647

learning about Bitcoin and the process.

648

There's still more to do, we don't really

have a storefront, you still have to

649

just contact me and tell me that you

want a cube and I'll mail one to you,

650

but that's a work in progress and one

day I'm sure we'll have an online store

651

and you can order a cube from there

and it's gonna be more streamlined.

652

Tali: Right now if they're interested

in checking it out, they just go

653

to your Instagram page and all the

information will be in the show notes.

654

Any last recommendations for women who are

still sitting on the fence about Bitcoin?

655

Elly: My last recommendation?

656

I think it's okay to sit on the fence.

657

You don't have to make

decisions right away.

658

If you feel like you need to learn

more before you can make a decision,

659

if you feel like you need to talk to

a friend or someone go to a meetup,

660

see if you can talk to someone

and you can answer your questions.

661

There's a lot of YouTube videos

that, that are very helpful.

662

If you have specific questions,

there's telegram groups and there's

663

even groups that are just for women.

664

If you don't want things to be

mansplained to you , then there's that.

665

But if you feel like you don't

really have questions and you don't

666

really want to get involved in

Bitcoin, that's perfectly fine too.

667

And this that's your

choice and that's great.

668

But I do want to encourage people who

have at least a little bit of a curiosity,

669

which I don't know why anyone would

listen to your podcast if they weren't at

670

least a little bit curious about Bitcoin.

671

Maybe they just like you

and they're your friend.

672

That's cool too.

673

But if you're at least a little bit

curious about Bitcoin just find a way to

674

maybe just buy a little bit of Bitcoin.

675

And download the Bitcoin wallet

and download the little bit of

676

Bitcoin that you bought onto

your wallet and do nothing else.

677

Just literally nothing else.

678

Just check back a year later and see

if your Bitcoin is worth more now.

679

Or learn more about it and if you feel

like it is the future, then feel free

680

to put in more money if that's or take

it back out if you feel like it didn't

681

do anything for you and you don't

really want to keep one more option

682

around for your money, That's fine too.

683

We're all juggling a lot of

things in our minds all the time.

684

Decluttering that way is

fine as far as I'm concerned.

685

So it's like closing a credit card account

that you're not really using anyways.

686

And you're just paying, I don't know.

687

So yeah, that's my opinion anyways.

688

Tali: It's true.

689

It's their own choice and everybody

has a different journey to walk and

690

everybody has their own timing for coming

to Bitcoin or not coming to Bitcoin.

691

Thank you so much for sitting with us

today and sharing all of your stories.

692

I'm sure that people who

need to hear it will hear it.

693

I really believe people are brought

to stories that they need to listen to.

694

Thank you so much for

sharing with us today.

695

Elly: Oh, it was so much fun.

696

Thank you, Tali.

697

Tali: Thanks for joining us today . If

the discussion with our guests

698

resonated with you and you would

like to dive deeper into the world of

699

Bitcoin, don't miss out on joining the

Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.

700

Also, if there are women in your life

whom you think would both enjoy and

701

benefit from learning more about Bitcoin,

please share Orange Hatter with them.

702

Until next time, bye!