The concept of purposeful and empathetic marketing stands at the forefront of this discussion, as it emerges as a catalyst capable of engendering profound impact within organizations and the lives of their customers.

In this enlightening conversation, I, Sandra Nnaji, am joined by the esteemed Kimberlee West, a luminary in product marketing with over 15 years of experience. We delve into how intentional marketing strategies that are grounded in empathy and core values not only foster meaningful connections but also drive sustainable growth. Kimberlee explains her journey, sharing insights from her ventures, including Kids Swag, which exemplifies the significance of representation and mindful consumer engagement.

Join us as we explore the transformative power of marketing with purpose and heart, and uncover how these principles can redefine success in the contemporary marketplace.

Takeaways:

• Intentional marketing practices foster deeper connections with customers, emphasizing empathy as a core value.
• Successful marketing strategies require understanding diverse customer personas and their unique needs and motivations.
• The journey of entrepreneurship is often marked by the necessity of starting imperfectly and learning from mistakes.
• Representation in marketing is crucial, particularly for children, as it shapes their self-identity and worldview.
• Utilizing technology, such as AI, can enhance marketing efforts by providing valuable insights and streamlining processes.
• Valuing customer feedback and iterating based on their experiences is essential for sustainable business growth.

Follow them online:

Sandra Nnaji: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandrannaji/

Kimberlee West: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimberleewest/

Follow us online:

IG: https://www.instagram.com/witlovepodcast/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/empowered-in-my-skin/

Welcome to Whitlam, a podcast founded by women, produced by women, about women in technology.

There is a huge place for women in tech and this podcast is going to get well into the work as a leading contributor to help change the trajectory and see the rise of women in technology.

Sit back and enjoy as our young female hosts share energy with experienced professional women in technology.

Hello.

Hello, Hello.

Welcome back to another episode of witlove where we spotlight women in technology who are breaking barriers and creating powerful ripples of change.

I'm Sandra Naji, your host for this episode.

Today's guest, Kimberly west is a seasoned product marketing Leader with over 15 years of experience helping B2B and B2C companies launch products, build teams and scale revenue, leveraging expertise in go to marketing strategy, AI and automation, and customer centric growth.

At present, she serves as director of product marketing at Maple, a leading telemedicine platform in Canada.

Outside of her corporate work, Kimberly is an entrepreneur and founder of Kids Swag, a passion project born out of her belief in mindful representation and helping parents raise confident kids who appreciate diversity.

A sought after public speaker, she regularly shares insights on gtm, AI adoption, customer customer experience and marketing leadership at conferences and events, helping brands challenge the status quo and build deeply human, empathetic connections with their audience.

Kimberly combines strategy, empathy and creativity to help businesses grow while championing, while championing representation, inclusion and meaningful impact.

Please help me welcome Kimberly West.

Thank you so much.

It's always so funny when someone else is telling.

I'm like, is that me?

Who is that?

But that was so good.

Thank you.

I recognize that girl.

Recognize her.

Well, thank you, Kimberly, for being on this episode.

Pleasure to be here.

So before we dive into this episode entitled Marketing with Purpose and Heart, can I ask you like a warm up question?

You know, get the juices going.

Definitely.

So outside of your work at Maple and Kids Swag, what's a hobby or passion project that energizes you when you're not in work mode?

Yeah, great question.

It's funny because of kids and work and all those things, there's moments where I ask myself that question as well, like, what do I do outside of these things?

But I would say a couple of things come to mind for sure.

From like the social, active standpoint, it's pickleball, which I think a lot of people have gotten into.

But I got into it because I'm not really an athlete, so it was easy to get in.

And then socially it's been really nice.

Like neighbors now do it or there's other moms at the school.

So it's a nice way for me to just break up my everyday routine, which is really important for me.

And then I try to go out of my way to bake, so to create something.

So on the weekends with my girls, I'm like, what's the next thing that we should try to make?

And we're not aiming for perfection, but the fact that we're taking the time to bake something as well.

What was the last thing like, you baked?

So we did carrot cake, and if I say so, we felt good.

It was, you know, we ate it.

We.

It was tasty, so we're in a good place.

And then this weekend, for the first time, my daughter says, for Christmas, we always do sugar cookies.

So instead, we're actually going to be a little bit more ambitious and do gingerbread cookies and see how that goes.

I love gingerbread.

Anything like cinnamony like that will get me going.

I love cinnamon and everything.

Gingerbread.

So hopefully they taste good.

Hopefully they taste good.

Hoping, hoping.

Fingers crossed.

Fingers crossed.

Fingers crossed.

So actually going into this episode now, I wanted to talk about, you know, Maple and Kid Swag.

So on the topic of mission and impact with Kids Swag, you've tapped into representation and identity for children.

What motivated you to start that and what impact are you hoping to create through that initiative?

For sure, there's so many different entry points in terms of why Kids Swag, but the main one that really triggered the store is my girls.

So I have two girls now.

They're 13 and 9, which is hard to believe at times.

So for the older one who's now 13, but at that time she was four.

When I got word that I was pregnant with her, I went out of my way to buy books and to make sure she had, like, cultural references and thought about all the things that we were going to do as we raised our little girl so that she really loved herself.

And at age 2, she came to me and wanted to have blue eyes and blonde hair.

And I was confused because I thought I had done all the things.

We have a really good family, my husband and I extended in terms of aunts, uncles, a lot of family that lives here in Toronto, all the different activities we were engaging in.

And I thought, well, something has gone awry and what is it and just, you know, looking around, I realized as much as that there were books, that her sort of everyday environment was still very much the status quo.

So we were really into Disney, of course.

And you think about the Disney swag that you buy, so the backpacks, the curtains, the bedding, you think about the toys that you buy.

You think about Christmas and what does Christmas look like?

Santa Claus.

You think about all of these different images, tv, cartoons that were signaling to her that beauty meant blue eyes, blonde hair, even though we were trying to give her some cover in other areas.

And that made me realize I had to be even more intentional.

And so I started going online.

The beauty of social media, Instagram, Facebook groups.

A lot of people don't realize how powerful Facebook groups are.

There's so many mom groups.

Started finding things around the world just for my daughter.

And then as I started finding those things and just sharing on Facebook, I wasn't even an Instagram person at this point.

Friends and family would just ask, where did you get that item?

Like, how did you get that?

Et cetera.

And I would share.

And so now when I was on maternity leave with my second daughter, and just speaking to a friend, she was like, you know, everything you're doing for your girls, other moms, other parents would want that.

And I was like, what are you talking about?

And she's like, well, that's a business.

And I was like, that's not a business.

Like, I'm just finding things and I'm buying them, but I don't see the business here.

And she was like, well, that's the same as a Walmart or an Indigo.

They are curators.

They don't necessarily have to create the product.

You don't have to create the product to have a business.

You can be a curator of a particular set of products that cater to a particular need.

And I thought, oh, this.

That makes, like, so much sense.

And I don't know why I never thought of that.

And so really, that's where the story was born, was me serving myself, recognizing friends and family were also looking for that.

And then as more people started to hear about the company, really recognizing I was serving a need that was so quietly festering for so many parents, and they didn't exactly know where to start.

Especially in Canada.

I would say that America definitely has some steps ahead in terms of access and just availability.

In Canada in particular, there was just this pain in regards to where do you go?

I don't want to have to go across the Border or get it shipped here and the cost associated with that.

So that's where it came from.

And it's been an interesting journey in recognizing how important just visual images are at such a young age to ensure that you are building a strong foundation.

And the reason it's called Kids Swag and connected to the origin story is the idea that everyday items.

So if you think about swag, swag is like when you go to a conference, they give you water bottles, et cetera, and it usually represents the brand.

In this case, the swag is representing our children.

So all the products, whether it's toys, backpacks, blankets, notebooks, all have black imagery on it.

And then on top of that, if we think about the word swag just in sort of urban dialect, the idea of how you carry yourself, it's a nice alternative for the word confidence.

And so Kids swag is really about confident kids being able to see themselves.

I love that story.

I think, yeah, there's just so much to pull from that story that I just found really inspiring, especially because representation.

I always thought about how, like, it's so important to have that strong foundation as a kid, because all of your experiences, I feel like, as a kid, are what mold you into the teenager, the adult that you are.

So instilling those, like, you know, making sure that you're seen, that you feel like you're being represented is important, especially so you can grow into, appreciate yourself and not having to search, you know, outside for your meaning.

So I wanted to talk about, since you brought your idea into a business that you weren't really sure too much about at first, can you talk about, like, advice for aspiring marketers and entrepreneurs, for people, especially underrepresented groups like that, like the one that you are appealing to now who are starting their careers in marketing or thinking of launching a side venture, what's the single most important piece of advice you give them based on your experience?

Start.

That's the biggest one.

It's the idea of we are our biggest critic, and because of critiquing ourselves, we can then get into the spin of perfectionism and feeling like everything needs to be checked off.

And the main thing, especially now in our current reality with AI, is just start whatever you think you could be doing.

What does it look like?

Oh, it needs to be perfect.

You know, the best thing, and I love this from sort of the entertainment world as well, is they think about the idea of, like, a test audience.

And when I think about what we have at our fingertips right now, besides the idea of AI where you, 1 could be using that to create, but 2 to also just think through, brainstorm ideas and add to that the power of social media, the Internet.

I mentioned Facebook groups when I got started with kids Swag.

I was already a member of so many mom groups because I'm a mom.

It was very easy to just simply post.

I didn't have a business yet, but just to simply post in there and get reaction.

It connects nicely to how companies even work now.

People actually appreciate the imperfections, they appreciate being brought along.

So there's no need for you to think through, oh, no, I'm not ready.

I don't look good enough.

This product is not here yet.

Just get started and then be very, very committed to learning.

So that's the follow up.

It's not only start and be like, all right, here we are.

It's start and take that iterative approach of what am I doing?

Why am I going to start with this step?

Oh, I want to confirm if people actually like this idea.

Oh, you know, what if they do like the idea?

Okay, what's the next step afterwards?

Like?

All of those things can now be sequenced.

But if you're spinning and feeling like, oh, I can't do this for another six months, a year, two years, start with the idea before you even think about, like, where's the money going to come from?

Because the first step doesn't have to cost money.

It could just be the validation part of what your journey that you're on.

Yeah, you have to start like somewhere because then you would, once you make that step, you start to just acquire more resources and acquire more people to like an audience and gain more traction.

So just.

I like how you talked about the perfectionism part because I feel like that's like a common thing for just anyone in any field.

It's like, like even for me too.

Like I'm a perfectionist myself.

So it's kind of like hard to kind of.

Especially when, when I'm talking about like mistakes, which we're going to talk about soon.

When it, for me, when it's hard for me to move forward knowing that I made a mistake and it's hard to like accept that, like, I didn't do a perfect thing.

And also that can be like a.

That kind of like hinders me in a way of like slowing down.

What could just be a, like forward movement and also just being resilient and also reflecting on what went wrong and just moving forward from there.

So.

And it's one of those things where you're not alone, I think.

What's so interesting, I'm definitely a perfection.

I call myself a recovering perfectionist because when I reflect back, we were raised in an environment.

Regardless what generation you're in, you're raised in an environment, I. E. School that encourages perfection.

The.

The benchmark is that you are supposed to get the A.

You are supposed to make sure that you are studying and understand single aspect.

And it needs to get to perfect.

And so the transition from going from higher education into the workplace is hard because you still bring that with you.

And especially as you're starting your career, the perfection is still demanded.

Yeah.

And then as you transition into sort of a mid career professional, part of that transition is that you have made mistakes along the way.

That's actually when I think about interviewing and when I'm looking for people when they're.

I'm looking for someone who's sort of mid level or higher, I'm actually looking for them to have had mistakes.

Why?

Because mistakes is where you learned.

If you come to me and you're like, I've always been perfect, that means you haven't tried hard enough.

That means that you've actually been playing it safe.

It means that you haven't learned or grow.

So it's this interesting cycle of perfectionism.

And I look at my two girls and every once in a while I'm like, how can I create environments?

Because there's school, but then you can create other environments where failure is okay.

So it's like, how do I set up environments where they feel it's fine, it's okay.

Could be in sports, like they're, they're learning to skate and do skiing.

And even before they started, I was like, you're gonna fall.

That's actually the best part.

Everyone falls.

And it just that rewiring of the mind of like, oh, this is okay.

Because then they apply it to school and they're like, oh, yeah, I didn't do good on that test, but I'm gonna do better next time.

I understand where I went wrong.

So there's ways to build the muscle of being okay with it.

But again, I say I'm a rec perfectionist because I still have moments where I'm like, ah, I wish it went this way.

It could be better.

Yeah, for sure.

I definitely agree.

I can definitely agree with that and resonate with what you said about the.

I'm not A recovering perfectionist.

But I think it could be the next step.

I think for my own sanity and my own peace of mind, I think I need to be recovering soon.

Asap.

Tomorrow, actually.

So you.

We talked, we touched a bit on lessons from failure and growth.

So can you share a time with the viewers when a marketing strategy or product launch didn't really go as planned, or you wish you could have just done everything differently, start over, but you couldn't.

So what did you learn from that?

What did you learn from that experience and how has it informed your future decisions and moves you're making today?

Yeah.

So I'll add a bit more to the Kids Swag story.

I was on mat leave.

Like I mentioned, when I started Kids Swag.

My career at the time wasn't actually marketing per se, it was research and insights.

And I say this because then starting Kids Swag, a few months after my maternity leave, I then entered professionally into marketing as my actual job and that I consider that starting my career as a product marketer.

I bring that up because the failures I had with Kids Swag is actually what allowed me to confidently and sort of verifiably say, oh, yeah, I do have marketing chops and I can understand this world.

And so when I think about, I'll use that example in terms of some failures that happen there.

So, as I mentioned, Kids Swag is about curation.

So it's not the idea of Kids Swag has its own branded products.

I didn't create my own doll or anything like that.

I was working with other companies that I thought they had cool products.

The thing that I learned is just because I'm in love with the product doesn't mean that the market is going to be in love with the product.

And so I remember.

So I kicked off the store with a couple of products that worked really well.

One was called Nia Ballerina.

It's a black ballerina jewelry case.

When you open it up, beautiful music plays.

It's a black ballerina.

Very unique, not something you typically come across.

And so I was in love with it and luckily everyone else was.

I came across another company and this company had bapa.

And I thought, well, these backpacks are amazing because every backpack actually had a black character.

So Nia Ballerina was from the uk.

These backpacks were from the US and on the backpack it said, I can do anything.

They had 10 different styles of backpack.

Five with black boys, different hairstyles, from, like a low fro to braids to locs, and then five with little girls.

And again, different hairstyles.

Absolutely fell in love.

Definitely needed to get these backpacks for my girls.

But then on top of that, bring it to the market.

And in my mind, I was like, this is it.

Like, the jewelry box was a hit, but this, this is going to be great.

And this was around April, so I was like, all right, I've been in operation now for about five months.

Built a little bit of a base.

People are starting to know my brand.

This is going to take it to the next level, because no one's seen backpacks like this, this.

And so the idea was, of course, kind of follow the same strategy.

One kind of leverage Facebook groups, the other one.

I was on Instagram by this point.

So part of the launch strategy in December was to finally open Instagram.

I've never had Instagram prior to that, but now is on Instagram, so there's some followers there.

And I thought, well, this is going to go viral.

We're going to.

So there was plans.

There was a whole, like, marketing plan of how I'm going to launch these backpacks into the market.

It.

And because I was so excited.

The one thing when you're a curator and you're buying products from other people, and this goes into the whole kind of distribution side of things, is that you have minimum commitments.

So you buy products from other people, and they're like, okay, the minimum commitment is that you need to buy 10 of these pieces or 20 of these pieces, and that's how you're going to get the wholesale rate for the backpacks.

I had to buy a minimum of.

I forgot what the backpacks costs were.

Were wholesale, but I had to buy a minimum of 2, $500.

And for me, at the time, that was a lot of money.

It's like, all right, I'm gonna put up this money in hopes of a return.

And the backpacks went out, and it was almost like crickets.

And I was like, what?

What happened?

How come the viral moment didn't happen?

How come people aren't buying it?

What is going on?

Like, where's the excitement?

And that was a good early lesson for me in terms of one, I'm not my only customer.

And one thing you learn in marketing that's really important is this idea of Personas.

And it sounds like a complicated thing, but really what it's just saying is that there are different people that are interested in your product.

And so one type of person could be a person like me.

And so that's like, when you think about it, you give a bit of a demographic profile there, maybe some lifestyle things like, oh, a woman who's in her 30s, has kids, lives in the urban place, etc.

And you know, it's career oriented, etc.

Another target audience could be a dad who you know is also like, has kids, etc.

And there's different types of personalities, let's say, that are interested in the product and you have to understand your customer.

And people say this very loosely, but part of understanding your customer is understanding that no one customer is the same.

And when I had started, I assumed all customers were like me.

And that's not the case.

Black mothers are not all like me.

We all come from different places, have different interests, there's different things that drive us.

And so that helped to explain why the product didn't do well.

The story I told about it didn't work well.

Why would you even get this in April?

My timing didn't make sense.

Who buys backpacks in April?

You buy backpacks and back to school.

So there was just so many lessons in regards to, to, oh, I can't assume because I'm in love, everyone else is going to be in love.

And then back to that point of like, it's good that I started and now what's the lesson learned?

Oh, look at all these different lessons learned that I can apply to anything else that I get into the next time.

Did you end up like releasing the backpack still?

I did.

So I took them off and then I ended up coming back with them.

And honestly, a lot of YouTube watching videos.

I was on YouTube, University of like, how do you run an e commerce store?

What are the things you need to know?

Shopify.

I was on the Shopify platform.

They ran in person sessions at times.

So I would go to their in person sessions.

And then you meet other people who already have successful businesses and you can talk to them.

And so one of the strategies was the idea of like a launch and how do you make something special?

And so I pulled them off.

The website was a little quiet there.

I ended up putting other products that just hit nicely.

The product that was really the blowout that I actually wasn't sure was going to be a blowout.

So this is an interesting flip was Swim Caps.

There's a company in South Africa that I ended up coming across and their name is Swima Caps and they sell caps for large volume Hair.

So the idea that if you think about a standard adult cap and if anyone's seeing this visually, but you can also just look at my name and see my hair.

I have a lot of hair.

And majority of women of children of African descent do have large volume hair.

Hair doesn't fit in a standard cap.

And it's one of the barriers to a lot of us going to swim and learning how to swim.

And so when I launched these caps, so that was maybe around May I remember I posted it and I, I didn't even think that much about it when I posted it.

I'm like, okay.

And that one I had, the minimum commitments were very small.

Like I didn't even have to spend that much.

I feel like it was maybe 100, $200.

So I was like, all right, I have a few caps, let's see what happens.

And immediately sold out.

Everyone was like, how is it possible that you only have this small amount?

What is happening?

I had to quickly make sure I ordered, I mentioned this is from South Africa.

So I had to get this woman to ship it to me as quick as possible.

And that hit and that hitting helped kids swag, build a bit more brand presence.

And then the backpacks coming later.

So now back to school.

I could have a back to school campaign.

Worked really nicely.

That's good.

It all kind of came together and like you ended, it ended up falling into place.

And like you push postponing the backpacks and introducing the swim caps and everything just like, just works now, which is good.

You talked about your career in marketing and you didn't really initially start with marketing.

You gradually kind of went into that field.

So now that you work in product marketing at Maple, can you walk us through like your marketing journey and like how you got started, what kind of shaped your path and what are the key turning points in your career so far?

Yeah, I, I, I go back and forth in terms of, I'm like, well, I've been a product marketer my whole career and I just didn't know it.

So I was like, oh, I was just in denial because for the very part of my career, very early part of my career, I didn't think I was a marketer.

It's like, oh, I don't like marketing.

But it's been, that's the way I was defining it in terms of most people when they think marketing and this is an aspect of marketing, but when they think marketing, they think digital ads.

And so it's like, oh, okay, you have to be someone that Creates ads.

You think about the commercials on tv.

And for me, that wasn't really that interesting.

I like being the receiver of that stuff.

But I was like, I don't really want to create this.

And so it was over time that I started to connect the dots of like, oh, there's different aspects, aspects of marketing.

And so I'll speak to that in terms of the journey that led me here.

It was not a planned pathway.

So if I go all the way back, like high school, I thought that I was going to be in, like, the sciences.

I really loved chemistry and biology, and I was like, I'll do something there.

By the time it was for university, I was like, I don't know if I want to do this.

And so I ended up taking political science.

I was like, oh.

At that point, a teacher had encouraged me to join the debate club.

She was like, you're, you're a good speaker.

Why don't you do this?

And then because you're on the debate team, you start getting into a bit more politics.

I started going to different things again.

This teacher, along with the debate team, just engaged a little bit more socially and, and in the political space.

And so I was like, okay, I'll go into political science.

Maybe I'm going to do something, whether it's local government or I'll go into, like, international development or something like that.

And so that's what I did in university.

No marketing on my radar.

I was like, all right, now I'm going to be like an ambassador.

That was the fun.

And so then after I graduated university looking for a job, I ended up being able to work at the university.

I went to University of Toronto, and I was able to get a job at the Rotman School of Business.

And at the Rotman School of Business, it was working on their executive MBA program.

So the difference between an MBA and executive MBA is just the tenure of the student.

So if you're going to do your executive mba, it's a student that already has, I can't remember how many years, but they have a certain level of years of experience.

They typically are at like a senior manager, director level or more.

And so now they're coming back for their MBA because whatever their original degree was, was in a particular domain.

Maybe it was healthcare.

And they're realizing to grow their career, they now need to kind of have the business acumen as well.

I mentioned that distinction because it meant right out of university, I was exposed to people who were already in jobs that I wanted.

And I was confused why they were in school, like, pardon, you're really successful.

What is happening here?

It also meant that I was exposed to a lot of different careers.

So I was now, I was right now thinking, oh, one was science, one was political science.

Now it's exposed to people who are working as consultants.

Never heard of this before.

People who are working in, like health tech and in advisory, people who are working for the banks.

But there were so many different types of jobs at the bank.

Like, I was now able to network with people who are much older than myself and understand what does the world of work actually look like.

What careers could I actually have in working there?

The associate dean that was there saw something in me and it encouraged me to actually get my master's.

Because I had already expressed that I loved politics.

I wanted to get into international development.

She recommended a Master's that was fairly unique.

It wasn't going to be an mba.

It was called a Master's of European Business.

It meant going off to study in London.

The unique part of this Master's was you learn all the things that you would in an mba and on top of that, you learn about politics and international development.

In this case, because I'm in London about the EU and what does that look like in relation to other orgs at the un And I thought, well, this is amazing because one thing, if we go back to hobbies that I didn't necessarily talk to, I love to travel.

My husband calls me a hot.

A hot foot.

Because whenever I can be like, where are we going?

Yes, let's, let's go there.

Let's do it right now.

I'm looking right now.

So when she brought this to my attention, the fact that I could get funding to cover this as well, I thought, well, this is amazing.

I'm going to be able to live in London.

The program actually allowed me to live in London and Paris.

So they had a school connection in Paris.

And I would be able to learn about business and politics.

And I thought, well, I'm definitely on my way.

I'm about to be part of caricom.

My background's Jamaican.

Caricom is similar to the European Union, but for the Caribbean.

It's called the Caribbean Community.

So different islands that come together.

So I was like, I'm about to do great things.

Like, I'm going to come back and I'm going to do this.

And when I went off to do my Masters, the business side was louder than the political side.

I did do a lot of political things.

Like, you know, there's the idea of Model un, they had Model eu.

I was engaged in that.

I did a number of things.

Again, because of my debate background.

I just loved that type of stuff.

But as I got into the business side of things, I started learning more about what it means to be a consultant.

And I took strategy courses.

I started learning more about finance and accounting.

I started learning more about marketing.

And I still wasn't.

I don't know, I was allergic to a little bit to marketing.

I was like, that doesn't feel like a serious job.

I like, I'll take the few courses, I'll understand the theories behind how you bring things to market, but I don't know if I want to do this.

And then as I started taking different marketing courses and there was a number of them, I was like, like, oh, wait a minute, before you get to creating an ad, you actually have to do a lot of the things I mentioned in terms of the research and understanding the customer and knowing which markets make sense and what type of product should you bring and how do you evolve?

And there are all of these base core things that were required.

And really, I didn't even necessarily think it was marketing.

I'm like, this is just business strategy.

Like, this is key things that you need.

And so because of that, I ended up, after graduating from that, going into consultancy.

So building up to.

And when I was doing consulting, part of this master's is that you get to actually work on two client projects.

And that's what helped me get into consulting, because the client projects were all about new products or services they were bringing to market.

And then as a student group, we had to validate, like, does it make sense?

Which market should you enter?

So that was very.

It was easier for me to make the case to then be a consultant.

So I came back to Toronto, worked for a local consultancy firm, and as I started working there, and I only know this in hindsight, I don't.

I didn't recognize it at the moment, but when I started working there, all of my consulting work was marketing, but again, it wasn't ads.

So one of the companies I worked for as an example was an energy company.

And they were looking at how do you take waste products like the banana peels and different things from different fruits, organic materials, and turn that into energy.

Energy.

So they were then going to be building these huge sort of energy.

Systems and they were looking at which markets would this make the most sense for?

And why was I hired as a consultant.

I was hired to actually do that market study to understand like, where should they launch?

Should they launch somewhere in Africa, in South America or in Asia?

Because that's where it's warm climate.

You have a lot of organic material like the banana peels and different things that are just being discarded, they're waste material.

But now there's an opportunity to add value and that value could then be turned into power and energy for certain hubs.

And then thinking through not only where to launch, but who would actually buy this.

Is it an individual?

No, it's going to be probably governments.

So, like what governments already have.

So all of this I mentioned, because as I started doing this work, I didn't know it at the time, but a lot of this market research work is core to doing marketing and thinking through how are you going to successfully.

Build anything and bring it to market.

So all of that.

The job that I then went from consultancy into was commercial real estate, again, more from an advisory standpoint.

So I wasn't a broker.

Someone that I was working from a consulting standpoint just through different connection was like, we're starting something new.

So the commercial real estate firm, it's a big one, it's called Colliers International.

The way that the salespeople or the brokers that they say work there is that they had different regions.

So like, yes, there's Colliers Canada.

But the way that the brokers worked is that they only represented people who lived in Toronto.

So it was very like local.

So we're not like, oh, everybody work from home and virtual.

But you only really represented those who were in your space that you could drive to.

It's very relationship based.

You want to be able to see people in the eye.

And the individual I ended up working for, he started a new department, Client Services, and said, as much as our brokers work locally, we have clients that are national or international, but we're managing them in a very piecemeal way.

We want to build something.

We're not exactly sure what that could be, but I think your mind on this project will help us figure out what this is.

And so that was my job for easily two or three years, was really building out what is this new service that we're going to create, how do we bring people along, I. E. The brokers, to think through how they're going to collaborate across Canada.

And part of that collaboration is sharing in commissions and thinking through sharing client data.

And that was a really sensitive thing at the time.

And so a lot of change management, a lot of rethinking on how do we think about services again, at the time, didn't think any of that was marketing.

Had my first daughter came back, I ended up joining the marketing team, but then leading the market intelligence team.

So marketing had a group called market Intelligence.

They saw the work I was doing and we're like, wait, could we apply that same thinking to how we win bigger accounts?

Could you help us pitch bigger deals?

We're losing deals, but I think we could look at this in a different way.

So I started doing that when I'm mat leave with the second daughter.

Like I mentioned, that's where I start kidsfy.

And it was when I was on mat leave with my second child that I had some time to sort of think.

Once you have like your second or if you go on to your third or fourth, your second mat leave, it doesn't feel as onerous.

So you have more mental space.

You're like, all right, I know how to be a mother.

Time to plan.

So you're like, what?

What should I do with these skills?

I remember, right.

I went through so many exercises.

I like, I have all of these skills.

I don't know what they're called.

I don't know what to do with this.

I'm not too sure what I want to do.

Do I want to go back to this type of work?

Like, as much as the work sounds interesting, there were times where I was just like, it doesn't feel like I'm building a skill set.

Like, I don't even know what my career is.

I don't even know what my title is.

Like, of course I had titles, but I didn't really.

I didn't feel like I had a domain of expertise.

I was just like, I'm a person.

They just throw into any ambiguous problem and they're like, can you help us figure this out?

And they're like, sure, sure.

But it didn't feel great as much as I was doing great things.

And that might sound weird.

And so I was like, well, I have all of these skills.

What could it be?

And honestly, you don't rely on your own wisdom.

You reach out to other people.

And so I reached out.

So I had friends working at different companies, even though we were mid level, like, this idea of, like, you should be able to network with your peers as well.

My friends knew people who were senior and so like, oh, you know what?

You work at this company and.

And this person has this job.

Do you think that they would talk to me?

And so they could make a warm connection that Made it easier for me to essentially do little mini coffee chats and interviews on job titles that seemed interesting, but I didn't know what they did.

I was like, well, maybe I want to get into.

What did I want to get?

I was like, oh, a solution architect.

Which is a. I knew that I wanted to get into tech, and that's a whole other story.

But then I was looking at what are the jobs at Tech Architect?

And I was like, is it a solution architect?

Which is essentially someone that's part of, like, the sales team, and they look at the technical services that the company is selling and say, okay, for this customer we can now design.

What's the best way that they can use it for their company is what a solution architect does.

And I'm like, well, I could do that because that's telling a story about, like, what our product is and then mapping it to the client.

And then I looked at other jobs like demand generation and.

Customer support, client success.

So I started just talking to different people in these roles, and none of them really felt right.

And then I came across a woman who was the director of product marketing and Insights.

I didn't know what product marketing was, but the Insights piece, I was like, well, I lead market intelligence.

That's Insights.

I'm like, maybe there's something here.

And having a coffee chat with her, she walked me through what product marketing was.

It was my first time hearing this role, and I was like, like, that's what it is.

This is the job.

I want this job.

Yeah, I like it.

Does all the things.

And so then having some clarity made it easier for me to now think through what had I done up into that point that even qualifies me to be a product marketer.

Tell a story through my resume to validate that I actually have the skills, even though I've never had the title.

And really, through the grace of God and hard work, I found a product marketing job.

Yeah, I love that.

What a great story.

You actually a really good storyteller.

I was like, invested.

Like, you have.

Like, you just have the right.

I know.

You just know how to tell a good story.

I was like, this sounds very interesting.

I was like.

Yeah, I appreciate that.

There's times where I'm like, oh, I'm talking for so long.

I really need to wrap this up.

No, like, you're giving me all of the details and everything.

I love it.

And I'm sure the viewers will appreciate you being very thorough in your story and not like, cutting out any, you know, key, key, key.

Moments you've had so far in your career.

So fast forward to today.

Also, looking ahead five to ten years from now, what is your vision for the intersection of technology, marketing and social impact that you work with?

And how do you hope to contribute to the future?

Yeah, it's such a great question.

We talked a lot about kids swag.

I'll talk a little bit about Maple.

Maple Telemedicine, Virtual Care.

Really intentional in joining this company.

So if you talk, do you align the different things you do to what you care about?

It really is the idea of how do we have impact, tangible, real impact on people's lives.

So technology can be used in a lot of different ways, but the idea that people can have regular access to the care that they need, they're not putting off their health care.

They're not thinking about, well, I'll wait until it gets really bad before I take care of myself, is one of the things that Maple really helps to solve.

As we think about how do we make sure there's 24, 7 access, access to care.

You tie that into my own sort of social justice lens as well, in terms of like, representation, inclusion, diversity.

When I think about five to 10 years from now, even it's starting to happen right now.

It's the idea of how does technology unlock disparity?

How do we use it to make it that much easier for groups who didn't have access, who didn't feel supported to have the access that they need, Whether that's from a youth even.

Honestly, people are our own age who still don't feel like they can show up and do great work.

That shouldn't be a feeling anymore.

Because part of what AI definitely unlocks.

I like the idea of entrepreneurship, and it's just a slight change on entrepreneurship.

And it's the idea that even within an organization, you can be entrepreneurial.

And if we think about what does that mean?

It really means being able to take initiative, being able to build, think out of the box, be bold.

AI is really saying you have within yourself each individual the access and ability to build things that are needed.

And it can happen at such a quick and fast pace that even inside your corporations, where you're like, oh, I'm going through such tactical type of work.

I don't really like what I'm doing.

Now you actually have the opportunity to be like, you know, this idea that I have, I'm not exactly sure how to get leadership to look at it or to understand why it's important.

You can brainstorm that you can talk through that, with AI, you can start thinking through what's the path to pull this together and now start to have a place at the table.

And so there's that piece in terms of access, there's the other piece as well of if we're quicker in terms of figuring out how to solve today's problems, we start giving more capacity and space to recognize.

How do we do that without painting a single picture?

Future.

The biggest issue we've had in really the course of our lives, and it's starting to change, is that when a new thing comes out, it's a one size fits all.

I'll give the example of the swim cap where we're like, well, this swim cap, there's not even a size on it.

Everyone should be able to wear the swim cap.

And it immediately excludes so many groups, not even just black women.

It excludes a number of different groups who do actually have large volume here.

As purposeful in saying the cap's not for black women, it's for people at least large volume hair.

There's a lot of women who have curly hair who aren't black.

And the idea that now when you think about how can technology be used, it can be used to really think about those niche cases, the edge case.

What are the things that you know in the past, from a business validation standpoint, it would have been too expensive.

You have to think about all the different molds you have to create or how are you going to roll this out to a certain market.

Now with technology it's saying, well, there's no reason why the cost is going to be that high and you can still have a really good distribution network and tackle a number of different audiences and ensure you're meeting their needs.

So when I think about the next five to 10 years, I think about the fact that I mentioned my daughter who's 13 now, she's going to be 23.

They're already, AI is just the norm, so they're already using AI.

She's in grade eight.

You imagine what she's going to do to be able to apply that being AI first thinking to different things that become important to her and what that means she's going to create by 23.

It's not going to be crazy that we think of 20 year olds, 22, 23 year olds being mid career and not early career because they know how to leverage AI better than we do.

And they're going to be building things that are going to be thinking about bigger issues and really making sure everyone is brought along at the same time.

Yeah, I liked how you mentioned.

I love how you brought up AI and how that's a.

Like you were not talking against it.

You're trying to encourage us to utilize it and to be more efficient with that because it can, it can bring us a long way but in a more faster pace and still get results.

Which I also think is good because I think what you hear now is people just saying like the, the negatives about AI and how like stay away from it.

It's bad but it can also be, it can also be helpful if you know your way around it and not it use you and not abusing it in a way that's not supposed to be used.

So thank you for sharing that.

No, because I, and I think it's so important.

It's one of the things why I talk about AI and I'm an evangelist about it.

I know that for sure there are things we don't know about it.

It feels scary.

There's certain things about how your, how's your data going to be managed, what does this mean in terms of my job?

But there needs to be that flip in the switch of one if you're not using it it you are going to be left behind and that's not something that you want.

It's evolving at such a fast pace that this idea of just get started is so important just so you can then be able to jump in and go a bit further versus 10 years from now trying to learn it and think through what is this thing.

But I compare it to other pieces as well.

For sure, we always have to be cautious even if we think about social media.

There's arguments for why social media is bad and why no one should be on it.

And then there's arguments for people who are like, no, I was able to make such deep connections and build community and I wouldn't have been able to see myself in a meaningful way or start this business and get the success that I had if it wasn't for social media.

So I think with every new innovation, definitely it's important to be aware of the risk because that's going to allow you to navigate it appropriately.

But it should be.

Shouldn't stop you from engaging with it for sure.

So just to wrap up, Kimberly, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your journey, your insights and your passion.

Your insights on product marketing, leadership and building meaningful impact through ventures like Kids Swag are truly inspiring.

Thank you for sharing your journey, your lessons and your vision for the future.

I'm sure our listeners are walking away with plenty of actionable ideas and motivation.

I know our listeners will walk away inspired, energized, and with practical ideas that can apply in their own careers and lives to everyone that is listening.

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