DOWNLOAD YOUR COPY OF THE BITCOIN-FOR-BUSINESS QUICK START GUIDE

This free, 27-page resource includes:

• Six ways ANY business can benefit from Bitcoin
• Some of the best Bitcoin-only businesses to partner with
• Key Bitcoin concepts for people getting started

Will Cole is the Head of Product at Zaprite, a leading platform simplifying Bitcoin payments for businesses. With a background at Unchained and Stack Overflow, Will focuses on creating seamless invoicing and point-of-sale solutions that enable companies to accept Bitcoin and fiat. His work at Zaprite empowers businesses to streamline their payment processes while maintaining financial control.

🌐 CONNECT WITH WILL

• 𝕏  X: @willcole on Twitter
• 🌍 Website: Will's Website

🌐 CONNECT WITH JOSH

• 𝕏  X:@joshuafriedeman
• 🔗 LinkedIn:@joshuafriedeman
• 📺 YouTube:@joshuafriedeman

TAKEAWAYS:

• Zaprite is designed to facilitate Bitcoin transactions for businesses, making payments easier and more accessible.
• The point of sale system developed by Zaprite acts as a companion app, not a full replacement.
• Understanding Bitcoin's limited supply and its credible enforcement is crucial for new users.
• Will Cole emphasizes the significance of Bitcoin as a cost-effective payment method for businesses.
• The integration of Bitcoin and fiat payments allows businesses to cater to diverse customer preferences.
• Zaprite's API enables businesses to create custom checkouts for seamless payment processing.

SHOW PARTNERS

Mentioned in this episode:

Strong Wealth: Wealth Management for Bitcoiners, by Bitcoiners

Velas Commerce: Biz Tech Meets Bitcoin

DOWNLOAD YOUR COPY OF THE BITCOIN-FOR-BUSINESS QUICK START GUIDE

The first highlight on the point of sale has to be that it's Donald Trump's preferred way to spend his bitcoin.

You know, at Zapright in general, we're just trying to help facilitate bitcoin transactions for businesses.

Now, our key strategy is not necessarily to build a point of sale like we don't want to be building hardware like we did with E Commerce.

We had a product called Payment Links.

You know, that's not a substitute for WooCommerce store, but it could get someone started.

Right, Our point of sale.

Think of it that way.

It's not necessarily a substitute for having a full square point of sale system at your business or something like that, but think of it as like a companion app.

Welcome to the Business Bitcoinization show.

The show dedicated to helping you enrich your life and grow your business with bitcoin, the hardest money on planet Earth.

I'm your host, Josh Friedemann and our guest today is Will Cole, who is the head of product as Zapright, which was recently used for the first ever public bitcoin transaction by a U.S.

president.

Today on the interview, we're going to be discussing some ways that Zapright can help business owners and some new features they've recently released.

We're going to get to our interview with Will right after this.

Will, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks, Josh.

Thanks for having me.

I like to start off every single interview with a few questions that help us to get to know you a little bit better and give us some insight for our own lives.

Are you ready for these?

Sure.

Question number one is this.

When and how did you first learn about bitcoin?

Yeah.

We were in soho in a bombed out building.

That's where his call center was.

I think they were working for Gary Johnson at the time, but it was one of the people that help shoot promos for commercial spots and stuff like that.

Had mentioned bitcoin.

But it was around that time and if you remember, this is QE still going on.

Financial crisis I'd gone through.

I'd been a gold bug for six months or something like that.

It was a fun time.

I'VE talked to a number of people who come from the libertarian angle who learned about bitcoin but didn't catch the vision for it.

As early on, you mentioned that you had been a gold bug for a little bit of time.

It sounds like pretty much from that point on you at least had a good grasp of the value or potential value of bitcoin.

Is that right?

Sort of.

I think the things that opened my mind to it one is I was going through the process of becoming a gold bug, right?

It'd been like six months.

I just started reading Austrian stuff, Murray Rothbard and Hayek and stuff like that.

But I'm not an intellectual and I wasn't really deep.

The types of things I was excited about with bitcoin were kind of embarrassing.

Looking back, it solved the Byzantine generals problem I got really into.

I remember what I used to brag about to people say, oh, it solves the double spin problem.

I didn't really get it.

But I would say that you're right that the libertarian leanings, the process of going through understanding gold as money, and I had a technical background, were ingredients that made me more open to it.

Where I didn't dismiss it, I didn't necessarily recognize the key value propositions very early on, but I liked it for the wrong reasons.

So question number two is this.

What's an insight or fact about bitcoin that you wish everyone understood?

And how that limited supply is enforced, I think that anyone coming into bitcoin, if you can get that very early on and not just, you know, fall for the marketing of there will only ever be 21 million, but understand how it's enforced and why that is credible over a very long period of time, I feel like everything else sort of comes naturally from there.

And I would say that, like I knew that in the early days, but I think correctly, I didn't necessarily view it as credible yet.

Right.

And every year that that supply limit was enforced.

Right.

And with different types of attack vectors and different types of developer groups in and out of it and industry people developing around there, the fact that it's been credibly enforced for this long means that I think that that's the first thing people should latch onto and that a lot of the narrative around bitcoin will sometimes obfuscate that or just think that everyone understands that's true.

But it's so incredibly weird.

It's such a weird property of bitcoin that it is limited in supply and it cannot be inflated.

I really feel like that that's the key insight or fact about bitcoin.

That if everyone understood that that bitcoin would have a very different adoption curve to date.

Interesting question number three.

What's the bitcoin resource you most recommend to other people?

This is the one I'm going to cheat on because there's so many I like.

But what I've always I used to have, I have a little recipe I like to give to people when they're first getting into it.

I like to give people Nick Zabo's shelling out.

So it doesn't even mention bitcoin.

It was written.

Bitcoin was created.

It's hosted up on the Satoshi Nakamoto Institute website run by Michael Goldstein and Pierre Richard.

That itself is a great resource.

But this article in particular, it's kind of like it's just a really.

It's a blog post version of the bitcoin standard without mentioning bitcoin, just explaining the history of money.

And until I read that I, you know, even my gold bug sort of education, it all just sort of snapped into place.

It's very short, very easy to read.

It doesn't even mention bitcoin.

And from there I would read the bitcoin standard.

Safe Edin's masterpiece again.

It expands on what's shelling out history of money type concepts.

Then of course ends with a lot about bitcoin.

And then lastly is Parker Lewis is gradually and suddenly which is much newer.

And it's unbelievable.

I can't believe that I know the guy who wrote this.

It's so good.

And Parker's an exceptional first principles thinker and I think it can get people in the mindset of instead of being casually dismissive of the fiat world around us and just sort of be hand wavy about like oh well, that's just the way things are.

Or is realizing that there are very intentional policies and people implementing those policies and that they really don't know what they're doing.

It's not a casual hand wave thing.

It's very, very specific.

And then getting into some macro concepts that I'm just not.

I Don't think that way.

And how that relates to Bitcoin.

It's masterful.

Got to read those three things.

I don't know that I've ever read that Szabo article you were just talking about.

Also, I haven't read the completed, fully gathered, edited, gradually, then suddenly.

But for obviously I've read the articles in the past and for a while we were actually doing this series at our local bitcoin meetup where we were looking at one at a time and discussing them.

And it's really like there are a lot of things that a lot of people have never thought of, including myself, but especially if you're pretty new to Bitcoin, it's a whirlwind of information, but extremely helpful for sure.

So question number four gets us beyond Bitcoin.

What is a resource, tool or idea outside of Bitcoin that's been helpful to you or your work recently?

Sure, I mean, I work in software development and so in my world of product management, engineering design work, building software, if you're working on a bitcoin product, great.

But the principles that make you good at building stuff have nothing to do with Bitcoin necessarily.

There are advantages of building on Bitcoin versus other protocols and things like that.

But just knowing how to build stuff on the web in app form, that sort of thing is something that I've been working on before I knew about Bitcoin.

And so now that I'm building Zaprite and building software for other people, the domain is Bitcoin.

But the principles that I build off of the same, and I personally started writing about that recently, a little plug the Tools of Ignorance XYZ is a blog series on the invariance of software development.

Excuse me, but no.

What I focus on more than anything is not the nature the domain of Bitcoin, but of how to build good software.

And yeah, I would say I'll show my own thing for a tool for building good products.

So now we have our final, what we call our arbitrary but insightful question.

And is this as a general life principle, Is it better to ask why or why not?

This is the easiest one.

This is such a layup.

I don't know how other people have answered this, but it's obviously, why not?

There's.

There's not a better answer to it.

No, I mean as a general life principle, like, yeah, why not?

Right?

It has to be not paying attention to whatever barriers or licensure or whatever it is in your way of doing something and realizing that the World is made up of people that just do stuff and usually they do it without permission and they figure the rest out later.

But why not is way more important in my own life.

And I'm also attracted to people that, that are more in that mindset.

It's very hard to be an entrepreneur on their fifth, sixth business like I am.

If you're always asking why.

Well, we're here today to talk about Zapright and some recent announcements from the company.

Listeners will be familiar with Zaprite unless they've just recently joined the show.

There are a lot of business owners who currently use Zapright in their own businesses.

We've had other people here that have given you guys a shout out as well.

You're doing great work.

But one thing that really caused me to reach out to John again recently.

John has shared on the show, I think twice before, but I wanted to learn more about the point of sale that you guys have developed.

It sounds like there's some other things we could talk about as well.

But maybe for those who just happen to be running across this for the first time, if you could provide a quick rundown of what Zapright is and then also just talk about the point of sale and what it makes possible for business owners when they may not have as easily had such a great tool in front of them.

Sure, Josh.

You know, the first highlight on the point of sale has to be that it's Donald Trump's preferred way to spend his bitcoin.

Right?

Yeah, that's.

I actually forgot about that.

But that's huge.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, but the point of sale is very simple.

You know, it's apprite in general.

You know, your audience is vaguely or somewhat familiar with what we do.

You know, we're just trying to help facilitate Bitcoin transactions for businesses.

Now our key strategy is not necessarily to build a point of sale.

We don't want to be building hardware and stuff like that, but ultimately we want to integrate with all of the systems out there.

But like we did with E Commerce, we had a product called Payment Links, which is a very simple single SKU type thing where you can set up a simple E Commerce checkout for a product.

You know, that's not a substitute for WooCommerce store, but it could get someone started.

Right.

Our point of sale.

Think of it that way.

It's not necessarily a substitute for having a full square point of sale system at your business or something like that, but think of it as like a companion app and this really supposed to Be just dead simple, right?

Dead simple, which is you can ring up a total amount and turn around an iPad or phone to your customer and they can pay with credit card, they can pay with lightning, they can pay on chain.

Really any of the ways that you could conceivably accept money and typically the way we've seen people use it is either they use it as a primary interface if they're only accepting Bitcoin and then they use it as a companion app if they also have say like a square point of sale or Clover or something like that.

But those platforms don't allow bitcoin transactions.

But they'll use it as a companion app to that to say like oh, okay, well we rung you up here.

Here's the total amount if you want to pay in bitcoin, pay with lightning or pay on chain.

It's supposed to be very simple and it is, it's a simple keypad entry and then yeah, just the typical checkout experience that you get on Zapright.

I think that what it will help people do, you know anything from like, you know, farmers market type things to, to more robust places like Pub Key in New York that's doing hundreds of transactions every single day as a companion side, it's just a really dead simple way to accept Bitcoin.

I guess one thing that people might be wondering, especially people that have physical locations, they already have their point of sale.

I know it's a major headache to change systems and you said this is really more additive than currently a replacement.

But I'm guessing it does require an additional piece of heart hardware in order like maybe some sort of phone or something like that do you need to use as opposed to integrating into their system that they already have, Is that correct?

Correct.

As of now, you know, we do anticipate integrating in with the larger point of sale systems over time, but that's going to take time.

You know, they're not necessarily, you know, eager to bring a first class citizen of bitcoin payments into their fiat ring.

Although that will change over time.

Yeah, it's really.

Yeah.

Companion app is a way to think about it.

You don't have to download an app, but you do need to onboard the same way you have to be able to accept bitcoin.

So the way Zapright works is that we're non custodial, we do not have a wallet.

You bring your own wallet to the table.

So if you already have a place you're comfortable custodying bitcoin, where it ends up, you can typically Add in that wallet into Zapright and that funds will just flow there.

So you go through the normal setup and then you would have an iPhone or an iPhone iPad as a companion to your Clover Toast, you know, square system.

And on the point of sale side, again, it's so simple.

Like it's not doing itemized SKUs or anything like that.

You probably rung them up, they saw your pay with Bitcoin side say, hey, I would like pay with bitcoin.

You grab the keypad, you type that, it's $72.50 and you hit enter, you turn it around to them and it's QR based.

Right.

So they're going to pay with a qr, you know, from their phone.

Phone, almost certainly.

And they can use whatever they want, whatever wallet they want to pay with.

And then the funds go directly to whatever custody option you're backing up your Zapright account with.

You can include lightning and on chain you can include only lightning if you're doing mostly small transactions or something like that.

So, yeah, it's not supposed to be at this time super robust.

We're going to replace your square system.

It's in addition to now there are some use cases if you're at a farmer's market or doing something smaller.

A lot of times everything you're doing is on an iPad or something like that and you can just switch tabs or something like that.

And for people who aren't as familiar with Zaprite, sort of the original iteration was a way to send invoices and accept Bitcoin, but you have a bunch of integrations.

What are the most popular integrations aside?

Well, maybe even including on chain and lightning possibilities, but just for people who may not need the farmers market or the physical location use case if they're just going to be sending invoices.

What have you found based off of your customers right now?

What are the most popular connections that people are using for invoices as far as payment options for customers?

Sure, yeah, that's a great question.

2 Most popular by far are self custody on chain.

So that if you have like a hardware wallet, like a Trezor ledger or cold card, you plug in your X pub and we retrieve addresses based off of that X pub for your customers to pay you.

Right.

So that would be the most popular.

The second most popular would be custodial would be Strike.

Strike's a very popular bitcoin exchange app, but they have fabulous APIs.

They've been a great partner to us.

And so a Lot of people who don't want to do self custody, at least not right away.

Sometimes it's just an ease of onboarding.

We'll set up a business account with Strike.

It also has the benefit of allowing on chain and lightning right away.

And then also, you know, on the lightning side we also have, you know, direct L and D connections as well on the non custodial side.

But in terms of most popular, I would say bitcoin on chain with an X pub and lightning custodially with Strike are probably the two most popular.

And what are the USD payment options?

Because every once in a while, even if you want to incentivize your customers to pay in bitcoin or just let them see that there's that possibility, sometimes a customer is going to opt to pay in dollars.

I know you have a stripe integration.

Are there others that are popular for people who are currently using Zapright?

Yeah, certainly.

And it's worth backing up a little bit.

We're realist at Zapright.

We realize that just because you accept Bitcoin doesn't mean that all of a sudden 100% of your transactions are going to be in bitcoin, right?

You have a business to run.

You have obligations in USD.

You probably want some USD on your balance sheet in addition to Bitcoin.

So we help you build these checkouts, right?

You bring that wallet in, but you can also bring a fiat option in.

And we'll create a unified checkout where a customer can choose between bitcoin and credit card and ach and you can have a gnarly checkout with a lot of options most people have on chain Lightning credit card, right?

And of those fiat options, stripe as you mentioned, is very popular.

We also have Square and PayPal slash Venmo.

So the square one allows for cash app payments as well.

And then all three of them will allow will connect to your Apple Pay Google Pay options.

So again you can have a checkout that says Lightning on chain credit card, Apple Pay or Google Pay.

Or if it's an invoicing, it could be ach via plaid on square or something like that.

So those fiat options are pretty open in terms of what they allow.

So just like you bring over your bitcoin wallet, say your Strike account or something like that, you can also bring over your Square account and then whatever square offers like we allow to be displayed in the checkout.

So Credit card, cash app, Apple, Google, Squarepay, Ach, you know, the list is long and so whatever's right for your business you can add in there.

And from what we can see, you know, our clients trend more towards the bitcoin side of things.

But I think it's over 80% of them also accept fiat on their checkouts.

And to be perfectly honest, I expect that to actually grow over time that It'll be like 90 something percent in that the majority of the payments will be in fiat.

For a business.

If you're just whether it's point of sale or you're doing invoicing or something like that, look again, we're realists is that most of those transactions are not going to be in bitcoin today.

If you're getting 20%, great for you.

You can stack that on your balance sheet.

That's fantastic.

But you still have to operate business somewhat normally.

And so having the fiat and the bitcoin side by side I think is a competitive advantage for our customers.

Well, I also love the fact we mentioned the farmers markets already, but if that's your situation, some sort of local market, you don't need to have XYZ plus Zap, right?

You can just have Zap.

Right.

And therefore you don't have to say hey, would you like to pay in dollars or bitcoin and potentially have them laugh at you.

Who cares if they laugh?

But still it's that extra step where you can just open up Zapright and they can just see there, oh, this person's accepting bitcoin, huh?

And then they'll probably select credit card or whatever else.

But that little nudge has been put in their mind.

I think that's a really neat aspect of Zap, right?

Yeah.

And just to add on to that a little bit, there are two things.

One is, you know, I'd mentioned our point of sale is a companion app and our payment links are kind of like that as well.

They're like a dumbed down version of like WooCommerce.

We're not recreating Woocommerce or Shopify or something like that.

Although we do have like a Woocommerce plugin like where you can do E commerce on Woocommerce with our checkout with bitcoin payments.

And there will be more platforms that we launch that integration on as well.

So like yeah, there's that point where the differentiation is our invoicing in particular is actually quite robust.

It's featureful.

If you're used to something like quickbooks or something like that, where you've been doing your invoicing, you're going to come over to Zapright and realize like, oh, I don't even need an integration with QuickBooks.

This already does everything I need, both on the Fiat and on the Bitcoin side, reporting wise and functionality wise, we have recurring invoices, we have, you know, again, everything you could possibly really need.

On the invoice side, feature parity with like the big invoicing options.

While something like a point of sale is more of a companion app.

Yeah, that was one thing and I forgot the second thing, so.

Well, so as you were talking, something else came to mind for me which is if someone were to be listening to this and they're like, hey, I want to get started in business in the near future, could they theoretically have Zapright as their point of sale or and if not, what are some of the ways that it falls short as far as not being as robust or feature rich as a more well known point of sale?

Yeah, I think on the point of sale side, the key parts of this are going to be like, we don't have a card reader on our checkouts.

Right.

So if you're going to pay in fiat, like the apps Venmo or Cash app, that's really simple.

You can do the QR interaction, but because it's QR based, if someone's trying to pay with a physical card, we don't do that.

Right.

So that's what I mean by companion app.

There.

There's some other small features that will probably bridge the gap a little bit and keep on releasing some features on the pos.

But again, our actual goal is not to get you to leave Square.

Our goal is to integrate with Square so that they have fabulous hardware, they have a great experience and a robust, robust fiat network there is just to get the bitcoin aspect added to a square or a clover.

So yeah, there's some places where it could fall short there.

I would also say that if your customers are mostly paying with these apps, the Cash apps, Venmos of the world, things like that, in a farmer's market, that's pretty typical actually, then you're not really missing out on much.

I would compare that Also I remembered the second thing, which is, you know, there's always this question, you know, when you put Fiat and Bitcoin side by side, are you trying to incentivize, do you want more Bitcoin products?

So we are Bitcoin sales is that we allow you to do Things like discounts and premiums based off of payment method.

Not really method, but currency.

Right.

So if you're paying in Bitcoin, you can offer a discount or if you're paying in fiat, you could charge a premium.

Right.

Regardless of what, what the payment method is.

Credit card ach, app based or whatever.

That's really cool.

So one other thing you mentioned before we started recording was your API.

So I'd love for you to talk a little bit about that as well and maybe some of the possibilities that opens up for business owners.

Yeah, the API is new, like the point of sale system.

It's really great.

We've had some people use it in point of sale use cases, but mostly what it's used for is E commerce.

So if you have created your own E commerce store, you're not using a platform like WooCommerce or Shopify or BigCommerce or something like that.

If you have sort of a customized web app or application of any kind, you can use our API.

It's very simple to create those checkout pages for people to pay.

You would set up the same way as if you were using our ui.

You'd connect your wallet, your fiat options, things like that, and then you send us the necessary order details and we create a fabulous checkout experience for your customers.

So this is, you know, I would, I would compare it to an integration with a WooCommerce or an integration with a Shopify, but just for those custom based apps.

We've had some creative uses of it as well for some companies doing some point of sale stuff, but they're highly technical, you know, teams.

We had a company that actually sells locker space at events like Secure Lockers.

So if you bring in stuff your backpack with your, with your computer or something like that, you can lock things up.

And they did it in Nashville, but that was like a in person checkout experience.

Like you would have to, you know, get your locker, get your number, pay there and everything.

So it can work also on the point of sale side, if that's sort of customized in your business workflow and you have the technical expertise.

But on the expertise side it's also just, it's a really, again, I like building dead simple things.

There's nothing complicated about the API.

It's a standard rest API.

Any development team that's, you know, head above ground for the past 10 years will have no problem integrating it.

Most of the stories we hear are a few hours and they're up and running with a new checkout experience.

So yeah, For E.

Commerce point of sale, check out the Zapright API for sure.

Very cool.

Well, so the last thing I'd like to talk with you about is I think it was probably, and you can correct me here, but you know, in the last 18 months or so is when you and Parker Lewis joined Zapright made, I would say, quite the splash, at least in certain circles.

I'd love to hear your reflections on the last however long it's been, as well as maybe why you see Zapright and payment opportunities like this as so important, especially since you've had a lot of success and experience in other domains.

Yeah.

So it's been around 18 months.

That's about right.

And you know, when, when Parker and I left Unchained, we really granted ourselves a while before we just started something up.

And that was our initial plan, was just to start something, me and him.

And we were looking at everything from different type of mining operations to payments to other financial services and lending.

And we were really just sort of looking around on trying to find market gaps and where we had we thought the expertise to create value.

And on the payment side, I have to admit, like, Parker was really on it before me because he was gearing up to sell his book and I was a little bit less interested.

But it was getting into the use case around.

I already have a wallet, whether it's.

I have a place I'd like to store my bitcoin at rest, right.

It could be on a single Sig car, it could be it unchained on multisig, it could be on strike.

You know, like whatever it is, I'm comfortable with it.

Right.

Why can't the money just go there, right.

When I, when I sell something.

Right.

Whatever it is.

And that was like sort of the key insight.

And we just couldn't find anything.

There was nothing that was suitable.

And that was really.

That was what got me interested was like, how is this possible?

We have this huge network of wallets, but no one's aggregating it in and just allowing you, you know, imagine if, I mean, you see this in the Fiat world a lot, right.

If you're a stripe customer and you make a sale, it doesn't just go to your bank account.

They take custody over the funds and then you get paid out and sometimes you don't.

Right.

If you're at a gun show or something like that, there's a lot of reasons people don't get paid out.

Well, that stinks.

And bitcoin seems to have a better payment rail to get you to final settlement faster than the fiat world.

Why aren't we taking advantage of that in sort of the commerce space of bitcoin, as small as it is now?

So we were really prepared just to start that company.

And then we remember John.

And John, while he wasn't focused on e commerce or some of the use cases we were thinking about, he had built this exact thing for invoicing.

And I remember looking at the connections page on Zapright, so if you go there and you see all the different wallets, you can connect the various on chain lightning, custodial, non custodial options.

And I was like, oh, well, this is it, right?

It's like, yeah, it's an invoicing right now.

But if John has the same vision that we do, that this can really be applied to any type of commerce use case, whether that be point of sale or e commerce or invoicing that he had already done, then maybe we don't have to build this from scratch.

Maybe we can team up with John.

And John's just such a.

He's an awesome guy in a lot of ways, but he's a fabulous designer.

And it just like it was a really good, solid product that already existed out there.

And we talked to John for about a month, really just making sure that we aligned on vision and all of that.

And, you know, we were more than aligned.

We just had sort of the same idea of where this could go.

So it just made a lot of sense to team up.

Instead of, you know, having this invoice product over here and this like, e commerce product over there, that we would build this together.

And yeah, so I think it was the combination of sort of giving ourselves the time to really reflect on where there were holes in the market or, you know, personal itches we wanted to scratch that.

We just couldn't.

And then finding John and realizing that, like, we.

We kind of shared a brain in terms of where we thought this was going.

So in on the payment side, it was really important.

John had already made a really, really important discovery on the invoicing side, which is that he had bitcoin and fiat living side by side when you paid invoices.

And for me, that was the kicker, which was just that realistic view of this is that our goal is not to get people to accept 100% Bitcoin day one, or have to implement multiple different systems.

We can be that aggregating layer, bring those two things together, and then that it's okay if you start out as a dentist and 2% of your sales are in Bitcoin and then seven months later, 5% of your sales.

That's how most of these businesses are going to go.

John really nailed that from day one, which attracted us to come work with him.

Will, I appreciate you sharing today.

Do you have any final thoughts you'd like to leave the listeners with or something that we just didn't get a chance to talk about today?

Do you think is helpful for business owners to now?

Oh, geez.

For business owners, I think it's being realistic about why you want bitcoin.

That if you want, if you've made the decision to have Bitcoin on your personal balance sheet, you're buying it, you're holding it, you're saving with it, and that you come to the conclusion that your business should be doing this as well, that accepting Bitcoin as payments is probably the best option for you, not just as a Treasury management tool, but because it'll bring you closer to your customers that are paying you with Bitcoin.

It is the most cost effective way of obtaining Bitcoin.

There's no transaction fee or exchange fee.

I would say when you convert your dollars into Bitcoin back and forth and do all that treasury management stuff, you might still need to do some of that.

But at the end of the day, we all know about credit card fees and all those types of things.

It's like you can save substantial amount just accepting Bitcoin on the primary basis, both in terms of how much money you settle with and the cost of obtaining that bitcoin ultimately.

So if you've made that decision personally, you want to do it with your business, that this is not a chicken or an egg problem.

It's a merchant led thing.

There will be no Bitcoin economy until merchants demand to be paid in Bitcoin.

Well, will, thank you so much for your time today.

It's been a pleasure.

Thanks, Josh.

Well friends, it's a wrap.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Business Bitcoinization Show.

If you'd like to reach out to either me or Will, you can find those links down in the show notes.

And if you or someone you know is interested in accepting Bitcoin as a business, check out Zapright.

As always, keep building, keep growing and until next time, keep living and leading.

Well, I'd like to give a shout out to Sean B.

Who sent a 500 SAT boost on fountain and included a comment about last week's episode with Anya Schuetz.

He said as a bitcoiner and software engineer and test who's looking for a job in the industry.

This came at a great time.

Wish me luck.

Good luck Sean, and I hope Bitvocation will help you get there.

If you're listening to this and would like to support the show as well, consider listening on Fountain and either stream sats as you listen or send a boost like Sean did.

And if you leave a comment with that boost, I'll be sure to read it on the show.