Hello 2025 and Our Review of Joy to the World

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Episode 416 • 8th January 2025 • The Doctor Who Big Blue Box Podcast • The Big Blue Box Podcast

Hey, hey, hey who fans and welcome to the Big Blue Box Podcast. My name's Garry. My name is Adam and Welcome to episode 416.

Adam: 00:00:27

Yeah.

Garry: 00:00:47

ey, hey, you lots. Welcome to: 2025

Adam: 00:00:58

Doctor who related.

Garry: 00:01:02

He's in there.

Adam: 00:01:04

You bet I am.

Garry: 00:01:06

That was his New Year's resolution, guaranteed.

Adam: 00:01:08

Take that, Take that.

Garry: 00:01:10

Yeah. Oh, dude. We are back behind microphones recording more Doctor who after a wee break. It's good to be back, dude.

Adam: 00:01:19

e, man? It's like crazy. It's: 2025

Garry: 00:01:27

Indeed. It's been manic.

Adam: 00:01:28

Can't believe it.

Garry: 00:01:29

Yeah. So welcome, dear listener, if this is your come.

If you're coming back to the podcast after a few weeks of no episodes other than the roundtables, of course, I'm talking about the weekly ones with. With Adam and I. Then welcome back the Grizzled Ancient.

It's good to see you and hear you here and if you are new to the podcast, if this is your first time listening to the Big Blue Box, then welcome aboard as well. If it's good to have all of you back. It's.

he last. The last month so of: 2024

Our main thing for this episode is our review of the recent Christmas special, Joy to the World. We're going to get onto that in a few moments and.

And we're going to just round up a few new stories that have been announced over the last few weeks as well, to make sure that everyone is up to speed with all the latest Doctor who news. So we'll get on to that. But, bud, I hope you had a good Christmas, dude.

I know you're a bit sickly at the moment, but other than that, have you been all right?

Adam: 00:02:39

Yeah, bit sickly, yeah, no, I had a great Christmas. And yeah, unfortunately, heading into the new year, I've been floored by. I've picked up some nasty old bug. But that's. That's to be expected, I think.

Sees everyone's got something, so. But apart from that, man, it's all been.

Been good And I've been enjoying all the stuff going on over Christmas and New Year and we've had some nice things announced and, and given to us. Doctor who related. And we like War Games in color. Loved coming back and watching that.

And the announcement of the series Season seven box set as well. Very exciting. We've got some BFI things been announced there, lots of lovely treats on the way and yeah, it's all been good, man.

As I said, apart from feeling a bit rough and a bit sorry for myself and a bit croaky. It's. Yeah, everything's good.

Garry: 00:03:30

Good stuff. Yeah. You've just recapped some of the things that we were going to bring up in the little news list, so.

Adam: 00:03:35

All right.

Garry: 00:03:36

War Games in color. That was. That was an interesting one for, for fandom more than anything.

This is just, you know, a new: 2024

And you have to agree with him to a. To an extent there. He basically said, look, we can't expect younger fans to sit through hours and hours of black and white old Doctor who.

So while there probably is a bunch of younger fans that are happy to do that, the majority probably won't. So, you know, you can't really argue with that.

But the thing that was that, that was weird about that was, yeah, a huge chunk of fandom was like, I can't believe they're replacing the War games with this 90 minute edit. And I, I'm a purist and I, I want my, I want my original War Games. Thank you.

I don't want this to say, ironically, the issue was not around the colorization. Nobody had any problems with that whatsoever. And I think you'll agree, dude, that it was a step up from the Daleks in color.

The colorization on this was amazing.

Adam: 00:05:05

It looked gorgeous. It really did look great. Yeah, yeah.

Garry: 00:05:08

So that people didn't have a problem with that. They thought that, like on Iplayer, if you went to watch the War Games, this is the version you would see instead of the original 10 episode.

Black and white, whatever. But yeah, I think everyone got their knickers in a twist a little bit over that. That was all good, but that was a good one.

And then as you said, Season 7 the new Blu Ray collection box set was announced and we're probably going to get that. I don't know. What do you reckon? March, April, something like that?

Adam: 00:05:37

Oh, I hope it comes before I. Because I'm heading back to the US in January. March. So I'm really hoping it comes out before March, but I think it's going to be close.

I think the BFI event is the beginning of Feb, so March, I reckon it's going to be April. I think it's going.

Garry: 00:05:54

Yeah, end of March, beginning of April, something like that. But so, yeah, season seven's an interesting one. Obviously John Pert to his first outing as the Doctor. So that. See, that series is a.

Yeah, I know we've reviewed all of these, so you and I are probably in agreement that the this season is bookended by two great episodes. So Spearhead and Inferno. Yeah, it's two great episodes. The middle two, the Silurians and the Ambassadors of Death.

Jury's out on, you know, how you feel about those two episodes or stories, Listener, but certainly an interesting box set and some really good features as usual on these.

Adam: 00:06:36

Yeah, I mean, I must admit the last time I watched Silurians, I. I really enjoyed actually.

I remember the first sort of time I gave it a re watch after many years I found it a bit slow and it was like, it's not as good as I remember, but I really enjoyed it the last time I watched it and maybe I was just in the mood for it. Ambassadors has some iconic stuff in it, but it. Yeah, it does drag a little bit in places. But overall though, a cracking season.

I mean, Pertwee's first season is. Is a. And like you said Spearhead at the start and Inferno, topping it is, is just. Yeah, Inferno is probably one of my favorite stories actually.

I think it's a great seven parter. And Pertweet's on fire in that story. My God, has he found his doctor like.

Well, he finds it very quickly, actually, but he is absolutely on fire in that story, literally.

Garry: 00:07:27

He is, isn't he?

Adam: 00:07:28

Yeah, yeah.

Garry: 00:07:29

So when you and I reviewed Spearhead together, we gave that a 9. Yeah, both gave that a 9 out of 10. And I can't find Inferno. I can't remember what we. What we. We scored that one, but. Oh no. So I have got it here.

We give that a 9 as well.

Adam: 00:07:44

All right. Yeah, I was gonna say I thought we gave it a high score.

Garry: 00:07:47

Yeah, nines all around. So that's pretty cool. So, yeah, season seven is up for pre order now.

The usual places here in the uk, Amazon, hmv, a place called Wave Something Rare Waves, I think, something like that.

Adam: 00:08:03

Oh, yeah.

Garry: 00:08:04

And you can audit from those. Yeah. So, yeah, get that ordered. As always. You have to have a bell. Little.

A little bell sound effect because we say this every time there's a new box set announced. But if you want one of these box sets, you have to pre order because they do sell out. So get your pre ordering fingers lively on that one.

And then we had the Savages announced as the upcoming next kind of missing story that's going to be animated, which is. Which went under the radar a little bit. You know, there wasn't much fanfare for that one.

I'm not sure if that's because the Savages is viewed as a fairly mediocre story by most or people are just not too bothered about it. I'm not sure. But I don't know. I think this might be a little gem in the animated line.

Adam: 00:08:52

Yeah, I was gonna say, I feel like this could turn out to be a little gem. I must admit, it's not a story I'm very familiar with, but people tell me it's a good one and I must have, like, listened to it.

I mean, does any of it exist? Is this one where none of it exists? I'm not sure, but I must have, like, listened or watched it in some sort of format over the years.

But I can't remember anything about this one. But, yeah, I was a bit like that when it was announced. I thought, oh, that's not what I was expecting. So I didn't get very excited by it.

But I hear it's good, so. And I'm glad to see Hartnell getting another animation as well. So I'm. Yeah, I'm kind of looking forward to it.

Garry: 00:09:34

Yeah, same. So I think this could be a cool. It's. It's. Sometimes you do have that. Right.

We have an episode that's just forgotten or a story that's just not really in the, you know, top of mind of a lot of fans and stuff. But then you have something like this come along and. And it ends up being really good. So I think this could be because all four episodes are missing.

Adam: 00:09:55

Oh, they are, okay.

Garry: 00:09:57

They are missing. But I think the. All the audio recordings are still there for every episode and there's a bunch of still photographs and clips and whatnot.

So they could have done. I guess they could have done a, like a telesnaps reconstruction kind of deal with this. But. Yeah, so end of March anyway, 24th of March.

That's the release date. Pen tooled in at the moment for the animated stuff, so we'll see how that goes. It could be cool. Our boy Tom, Tom Baker has been awarded with an MBE.

Yes, Very much deserved.

Adam: 00:10:36

Right, absolutely. I'm so. I'm thrilled for Tom, actually. Yeah, this is lovely, Lovely News.

Garry: 00:10:42

Yeah. 90 years old and finally got some. Some recognition. So this is for contribution to television. So. Yeah, that's a good one.

And I think the actual ceremony for this is at some point 20, 25, where he actually goes to the palace, you know, gets his. His award and all that stuff, so that'd be good. And he did a little clip recently. Did you see that? He did a little.

Yeah, a little Happy Christmas clip, I think it was. Or.

Adam: 00:11:11

I loved it. I think. Cygnus Alpha. Was it Cygnus Alpha? No.

Garry: 00:11:15

I think so, yeah.

Adam: 00:11:16

Cygnus Alpha, yeah. Let me Google it, make sure I'm crediting the right people. Yeah, they. They posted a little YouTube clip of him that they'd filmed where he lives.

Well, I think he's actually in the pub around the corner for where he lives, since Tom spends a lot of time by that fireplace in his local pub. Yeah. And it was just lovely, wasn't it? It's just saying thank you to the fans, of which he has many. And it was.

I can't remember what else he says, but it's such a typical Tom sort of moment, isn't it?

Garry: 00:11:48

It's lovely.

Adam: 00:11:49

Yeah, it's a lovely little video. Yeah.

Garry: 00:11:51

And he's looking. Well, you know, there was a.

There was a space of time over the last year or so where anytime in the public a photo was released of him or a clip or something, everyone would comment immediately on how frail he looked and how, you know, how his age is showing, of course, and. And stuff, which is an obvious thing, but I don't know, in this, he seemed to have a nice little grin and a little twinkle in his eye and.

Yeah, he did. He didn't look too bad. He looked all right.

Adam: 00:12:19

No, I mean, I think Tom. I mean, how old is he now? Is he 90 now? 90, yeah, 90. I mean, he does obviously look frail. He's 90 years old, for goodness sake. Of course.

I think, Thomas, whenever we see Tom, if you see a picture of him, you think, oh, golly, looks, you know, looks thin. But then you. When you see videos of him like this and you hear him speak, he is still absolutely all there.

He's, you know, he's still got that twinkle in his eye, like you said, and he hasn't changed at all. He's still the Tom Baker that we sort of all love. So I. He does. He seems in good spirits. Really good spirits. You know, I love that little clip.

And it is Cygnus Alpha, by the way. Yes. They. They do events and I think Ian, who runs Cygnus Alpha, he, you know, obviously organized these little video clips which were wonderful.

I think there was two. There was one talking about the fans, wasn't there? And then another one.

I forget what Tom says in the other one, but there was two little video clips and they were both wonderful.

Garry: 00:13:19

They were. Yeah. Oh, such a guy. Such a top guy, Tom, and very much justified giving him the MBE for that. So that'll be something else to hang on as well.

He's got another. He's got another decade in him, at least. I think he's got, you know, a bunch more Big Finish stories in him. Well, basically, yeah.

Adam: 00:13:39

They've recorded up until, like, for the next 10 years. And I mean, joking aside, I think they've got so much Tom Baker in the can still ready to release.

Yeah, we'll be having Tom Baker for many years to come from Big finish.

Garry: 00:13:52

Yeah.

Adam: 00:13:53

You know, I think the reason we all worry about Tom is because, you know, he is getting to a certain age and he is the Doctor that many, many people love. And we just don't want, you know, we just can't bear the thought that one day, you know, he might take the TARDIS and leave this. This planet.

And unfortunately, that will happen one day. But I think that's why people get so concerned about his health. I think it is.

It does come from a place of love, of that we just don't want anything to happen to him. You know, it's always like we're all safeguarding him, isn't it?

Garry: 00:14:21

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a. Yeah, you nailed it there.

I think a lot of people that grew up watching Tom, like, if Tom Baker is their Doctor from, you know, from the classic era, and if you're a.

, as you were growing up, the: 2005

And just that era of Doctor who is just amazing. Of course, and stuff like that.

So when, like you said, it comes from a place, a place of love, it's almost like with some of these classic doctors like McCoy and Colin Baker and, you know, Davison, all the classic that they often feel like they're immortal because they've been around for so long, especially Tom, you know, they've. And McCoy, McCoy's starting to knock on a bit now and. Yeah, but he's like, like Tom, like all his marbles are there.

I'm not sure he had all of them to begin with, but, you know, he's still zany and crazy and stuff like that.

hem at conventions, like even: 2024

There was a, an event that McCoy was at just literally a couple of months ago in the US and he did that thing that he normally does when he's doing Q&As where he just grabs the mic, hops down off the stage and just whizzes around the audience for half an hour, you know, and he still, he feels like he's eating all the blue Smarties again and, you know, he's going nuts and stuff. So, yeah, dude, it feels like these classic doctor actors are like immortal, you know, they're still going and stuff.

So long, may that continue with all of these guys. So, yeah, so that's Tom.

And then lastly, to get back to the news, we got the teaser trailerland, Very, very small teaser at the end of the Crimbo Special for season two, which we think is going to land roughly March time.

Adam: 00:16:47

Ish.

Garry: 00:16:49

So there was a few little snippets in there. We got to see the new companion, we got to see a new outfit for the Doctor and a couple of new bits.

But did it, did it get you excited for the next season or are you a bit indifferent?

Adam: 00:17:00

I'll be honest, mate, I was hoping we'd get a trailer for season two. I was really looking forward to it. It wasn't a bad trailer, but nothing really grabbed me.

There was just one shot I think, which intrigued me, which I think is the shot a lot of people have picked up on is, is this cartoon character sort of crawling out of A cinema screen. I thought, oh, that looked good. But everything else just seemed to just glaze over me, like nothing. There was no sort of. What was that?

You know, I don't know. It. I'm not saying it was a bad trailer or, you know, it didn't look fun and exciting, but just nothing to really get Motif into in it, you know.

Garry: 00:17:37

Right.

Adam: 00:17:38

So it kind of. Yeah, it fell a bit flat for me, if I'm honest. The trailer, it didn't get me buzzing for series two like I was hoping it would.

That's not to say I'm not excited for it. I am. And it's.

It's going to be weird because I think when series two drops, I'll be back in the States and it'll be the first time I've watched Doctor who on Disney plus, which I know is, you know, doesn't really make any difference, but it'll be strange for me to be, you know, watching on Disney plus rather than BBC. But yeah, I don't know, mate. It didn't really do anything for me, if I'm honest. It just was just there.

Garry: 00:18:13

Yeah.

Adam: 00:18:13

And I thought, okay, what about you? Did anything grab you in it?

Garry: 00:18:17

Yeah, there was a couple of bits in it that I thought were really good. The first one is that.

And I know we say this every time that there's a new season, it kind of like incrementally gets better, but the visual, cinematic feel, it's. Some of them. Yeah. Some of the shots were like the warping blur effects that the Doctor's experiencing inside the tardis.

There's a scene where it almost looks like. Like the way that they've color graded this and stuff.

There's like all these flying saucers zipping around this sort of futuristic cityscape at sunset. When I first saw it, I was like, huh, is that the. Is that the Capitol on Gallifrey sort of thing? I don't think it is, but it's got that vibe to it.

And then there's another shot where, like, these astronauts are dropping down out of a spaceship and, and stuff. It looks really cinematically gorgeous from that perspective. But there's a couple of things that intrigued me. There was the Doctor with a.

It looks like a kind of 70s 60s hairstyle.

Adam: 00:19:16

Oh, yeah.

Garry: 00:19:17

With the new companion and stuff. And there's a, A little clip of. Of. Of Ruby. She's obviously back for some of this. Yeah.

And there's also a scene where there's a giant cartoon character coming out of the cinema screen that looks like that Old fashioned, like early Disney style, cuphead video game, that's it kind of thing.

Adam: 00:19:38

Yeah.

Garry: 00:19:38

So that looks cool as well. So, yeah, I wouldn't say it got me, you know, sort of hopping up and down, you know, can't wait to, to get into it.

But I do think there are some, some cool things to come in this season. I think it's going to be a slightly different vibe.

Although this was filmed almost at the same time as season one, I think a lot of fans have got some trepidation about that. Especially if season one didn't quite land for you and you're thinking, well, season two was filmed at the same time almost.

Are we just in for more of the same? I think, I think there could be a different vibe to this one, dude. Slightly different. So I'm up for it.

But I wouldn't say I'm losing sleep with excitement for it, if that makes sense.

Adam: 00:20:22

No, I get it. I mean, I'm the same, I thought, yeah, perfectly decent trailer.

But I think what's quite telling is that even just listening to you talk about some of the things in it, I'm thinking, oh yeah, I remember that, I remember that. Yeah. But nothing has made me go back to rewatch it. Like, I think it's quite telling that I haven't gone back to rewatch it too much.

Like, I remember when the trailers for the 60th Specials dropped and we were like, how many times did we watch that trailer? We were just buzzing and we obviously, we know how they turned out.

But you know, the trailers got us really hyped and they looked so cinematic, we, we couldn't wait to see them hit the screen. And I just haven't quite got that feeling with this.

As I said, I think I watched it, I've watched it twice, which for a new series trailer is not a lot. So I don't know, I just think that, that, that speaks volumes really.

As I said, I'm not saying it's bad, I'm not saying there isn't stuff in there to get excited about, but it's just not grabbed me in the way a new series trailer should, I don't think. But yeah, we shall see. But I am looking forward to series two. I hope it does have a slightly different vibe to it.

I mean, we've got a new companion, so that should give a different dynamic for a start. But yeah, and I am intrigued by the thing in the cinema. Don't know what it is.

It did make me think of that Torchwood episode where things come out of the screen. Do you remember?

Garry: 00:21:43

Oh, yeah.

Adam: 00:21:44

Kind of gave me that vibe. So I hope it's not sort of retreading stuff they've already done, but, yeah, that. That did excite me. I like the look of that.

Garry: 00:21:52

Yeah, same. So we'll see on that one. We've only got a few months to go, really, before we get potentially the season seven box set and then season two and stuff.

So I think in the first half of the year we're going to get plenty of Doctor who, and then we've got the Savages releasing as well in March.

Adam: 00:22:10

So how many Blu Ray sets do you think we'll get this year? Three or four?

Garry: 00:22:15

I reckon two.

Adam: 00:22:16

Only two?

Garry: 00:22:17

Yep. No, no, I reckon two. I reckon we're gonna get you old Scrooge. I know. I reckon we're gonna get one around Easter time.

I think early April is gonna be the first one and then I think October, November, time for the second one. You just got a feeling, mate. Yeah, we're gonna get two.

Adam: 00:22:39

You think they're spreading them out a bit? I mean, I. I want them out as soon as possible. You know, I'm not getting any younger, but, yeah, I.

I do get the feeling they are not slowing down as much. But, you know, now that we've got halfway through the collection, I don't know, I don't want them to slow up.

I think a minimum of three this year would be good. I forgot to say in the waffle, mate, I.

I obviously have finally been able to open my season 25 box set when I come back, and that has been an absolute. I mean, that is just fantastic. I think it's probably the best set they've done so far.

Like, I've watched all of the stories with the new updated effects and stuff, which are great.

So finally got to see Happiness Patrol with the new effects because obviously me and you went to the BFI screening where they sent the wrong file, so I finally seen it. Fantastic. But the new extras as well, I mean, it's. They've really gone to town on. On that season 25 set. I have been loving it.

I mean, that's one of the. Although I've been ill and just sat on the sofa in a blanket, I've.

I've had that to sort of, you know, while away the time and it's been such a joy going through it, I tell you. And I'm still not finished, actually. I've still got stuff on it that I've not watched. There is still more extras that I need to Watch.

So it's, it's a heck of a set.

Garry: 00:23:59

It's great. Yeah, I think I agree with you. I think it's the best one that they've done so far. It's fantastic. So that one. Yeah, love that.

I think season 17 was a good one for me as well, Tom. Yeah, I think that was another good one. But anyway, yeah, 25 is a great one, dude. All right, cool.

Let's, let's stick a pin in the news as we get closer to season two and some of the other bits that are happening in a year. We'll obviously keep you guys updated on what is going on.

So if you want to stay in the loop and make sure that you are part of the big blue box community as well, then make sure that you are following or subscribing to this podcast in whatever app you listen to your podcasts on, especially if you're a new listener and it's a recent listen for you. We put a new episode episode out usually every Friday if we're not busy or away or traveling or whatnot.

And we also have a monthly roundtable episode where we draft in Maria, Matt, Harry and Jordan from our writing team. And we just sit around a virtual table and chat about anything we want to do with Doctor who.

They're always a really good laugh and really insightful as well. So we release those once a month. And plus you can listen on the website as well, which is bibliocspodcast.co.uk.

and on there you've got all the podcast episodes, plus all of the reviews and editorials and event roundups and everything from the writing team. So there's plenty to get stuck into over there. We're on the socials too. There are links on the website.

Come and hang out with us and chat Doctor who throughout the week in between episodes. And we've also got a really cool free Discord server. There's a link on the website. Just sign up. I think it takes like 30 seconds to sign up.

Or if you're an existing Discord user, you. You can hop in there and there's always loads of really good chat.

We've got a really, really nice, really good community of who fans that's growing all the time over there. So hop in there and chat to plenty of Doctor who. And finally, don't, don't forget to remember to check out my co host channel on YouTube.

It's called the Geeks Handbag.

Adam: 00:26:13

Geeks Handbag, Yeah. I've actually managed to drop a few videos before Christmas. And yeah, I was. Don't know if you got to see my prom video, but I was so pleased with.

Of course, yeah, so not to be big headed. I was just so pleased how that actually turned out. And it was a video I hadn't planned.

It was Maria, you know, one of our writing team who actually said, you're not vlogging it. I'm like, no, I don't really do that anymore. She's like, oh, you ought to. And I thought, oh well, I'll. I'll record a bit of footage in case.

And then I sort of had no intention of doing it. And then I watched what I'd actually recorded and thought, got some good stuff here. Actually, I think I will put this together, this video.

So it took a bit long for me to get it together but I'm really pleased that it came out. So yeah, go and check out my YouTube channel Geeks handbag and I've got a couple more videos on the way. So yeah, if you like Doctor who.

It's mainly Doctor who. Go check it out.

Garry: 00:27:01

Yes, go and check out Adam's on the socials as well under the same name, the Geeks Handbag. And he often does polls and ask for opinions on the latest Doctor who stuff and all that.

So yeah, just grab a cup of tea, get comfy, fire up the geek's handbag and. And watch all of Adam's geekery stuff over there. Alrighty, dude, review time. What we got?

Adam: 00:27:24

Yeah, let's get into it. So it's the Doctor who Crimbo special and it's called Joy to the World.

Garry: 00:27:31

Is this Christmas? Yes, we're doing a special Christmas everywhere all at once.

Adam: 00:27:38

Oh, good. Ham and cheese.

Garry: 00:27:42

Toasty and a pumpkin latte. Who are you?

Adam: 00:27:44

Wrong room. We are on a top secret mission. What? Who are you then?

Garry: 00:27:50

Joy.

Adam: 00:27:50

Top name. Joy.

Garry: 00:27:51

Thank you. How do I get to meet you?

Adam: 00:27:57

You'll find out. Who are you? You'll find out.

Garry: 00:28:00

What do I do?

Adam: 00:28:00

Where do I go? We'll find out.

Garry: 00:28:02

Oh, do you see?

Adam: 00:28:03

You have to be mysterious all the time.

Garry: 00:28:05

That's why.

Adam: 00:28:06

Why everyone leaves you. That is why you were always alone. Promises to keep.

Garry: 00:28:14

We can do this.

Adam: 00:28:16

What's the biggest mystery in the non universe?

Garry: 00:28:27

Joy to the World.

Adam: 00:28:29

There you go.

Garry: 00:28:30

There you go. This was the: 2024

I think it's about 52 minutes the runtime. It was written by Stephen Moffat, the Moff Bag. It was Directed by Alexandief Pillay and was overseen by the usuals, Russell T.

Davis, Julie gardner, phil collinson, etc. Stars shooty gatma, obviously, as the 15th doctor. I always mispronounce this actress's name. I'm very sorry. I think it's Nicola Coughlin.

I think is how you pronounce it.

Adam: 00:29:09

I think you've got. I think you're right.

Garry: 00:29:10

There could be. And. And then we've got about a dozen supporting cast members. Synopsis very short and sweet, is this Christmas.

The Doctor is thrown together with a cheery yet lonely hotel guest with a connection to a mysterious briefcase. Dot, dot, dot ellipsis. So that's the. That's all you get? That's all you got.

Adam: 00:29:35

That's it.

Garry: 00:29:35

From the baby on this one. So, dude, Joy to the World, the latest Crimbo special. No longer the New Year's Eve or New Year's Day. Festive Special. Shenanigans from Chibbers.

We're back to Christmas Day. What were your thoughts on this one, dude?

Adam: 00:29:50

Actually, I'm intrigued. Did you actually watch it on Christmas Day?

Garry: 00:29:53

I did.

Adam: 00:29:54

You did?

Garry: 00:29:54

Yes.

Adam: 00:29:55

Okay. Did you watch it alone?

Garry: 00:29:57

I'm not a fake fan like you do.

Adam: 00:29:58

No, I didn't watch On Christmas Day. Did you watch it with the fam or were you locked in a room because they. They would doing something else.

Garry: 00:30:06

Oh, no, just me, so.

Adam: 00:30:08

Oh, no, just you locked in a darkened room with the Baileys.

Garry: 00:30:11

Oh, no, no, I was gonna say me. Just me and the wife. So we both watched it. I must admit, I will make an admission here. I'm always transparent. I did fall asleep 20 minutes in.

Now, you'll find out later whether was that due to the quality of the episode or whether I was tired due to something else? You'll find out. But I did fall asleep for the middle 30 minutes, I think.

But then I did re watch it later on that evening and I rewatched it last night. So anyway, off the bat, dude, what. What were your thoughts on this one?

Adam: 00:30:49

Yeah, I didn't watch it Christmas Day. I watched it on the iplayer. I actually know.

Well, I watched on the iplayer when I got in, so I suppose technically I did watch it on Christmas Day, just not when it was airing. And I did give it another watch last week when we were originally supposed to record before I got ill. So I've given it a couple of watches.

I found it. I think on the one hand it's quite a nice Christmas special. It's a very sort of easygoing easy watch with some really nice moments.

But on the other hand, it's a bit of a mid episode. It's a bit. It doesn't have a lot of content. I didn't feel. It just feels a bit filler, for want of a better word. So I'm a little bit conflicted, mate.

So I don't think it's good or bad. It's just an average. Quite nice. You could put it on episode of DOT two and I think some people might say, well, that's what you want at Christmas.

You want just to. Something to just put on and have a bit of fun. But I think that's okay to an extent.

But I feel like if we're now settling for Doctor who just being good, okay, I think that's a bit of a shame. I think our standards need to be a bit higher.

I just worry that Doctor who is sliding into this quality control is where the level of okay is acceptable, if that makes sense. So whilst I didn't think there was anything particularly bad about it, I think we've had a lot worse Christmas specials.

And I thought it was enjoyable. I just thought it was very average on the same hand, if you know what I mean. So, yeah, I enjoyed it. Did I think it was great? No.

Did I think it was bad? No, it was just okay. And I'm not sure I like Dr. Who being just okay, if I'm honest.

But yeah, I'll dive more into my, you know, more into stuff as we go into it. There, you know, there are things I thought worked really well. There were things that I felt on a second watch really didn't add up.

I started, you know, like you do as Dr. Foul. I started questioning a lot of the concept, which originally I thought was really good.

The more I thought about it, I was like, I don't know actually if that really works. But anyway, I'll get into that as we go through it, mate. But overall, I just thought it was an easy watch. Quite enjoyable, but nothing special.

Garry: 00:33:11

Huh. Okay.

Adam: 00:33:14

And I didn't fall asleep, but, you know. Over to you.

Garry: 00:33:17

You didn't fall asleep. Yeah, yeah. So my view on it is reasonably similar to yours, dude. I think. I think it's one.

In terms of how it measures up to previous Christmas or festive specials for Doctor who. I don't think it's the worst one. No, I don't think it's down there. So. It's weird, isn't it? The Doctor who Christmas special is a strange beast.

Adam: 00:33:43

It is.

Garry: 00:33:43

It's a strange old thing to get your head around.

Because on one hand, the Christmas special has the potential to be this really cool, magical, wholesome, heartwarming, lovely story to be told within the world of Doctor who. And sometimes it does get that right at times. There is. There's been a couple of moments and I think for me, this came at the end of this episode.

I think the last five minutes are just so gorgeous and heartwarming and lovely feeling and stuff like that. I was just wanting a bit more feeling of that throughout the episode. I felt like. And it didn't feel Christmassy to me either.

There was like little tiny moments in there that were obviously very festive from. From. What's the best way to put it? From a biblical point of view, I guess, or a poetic point of view from. From histories in that respect.

But I didn't really get that Christmassy vibe too much.

Now, I'm not saying that a Christmas special for Doctor who needs to have like a bazillion Christmas trees and Santas and Christmas lights and all that stuff. I'm not saying that. And. And it has to be like snowbound and stuff. I'm just saying, you know, it doesn't have that kind of.

It didn't have that sort of vibe to it. So the reason why I fell asleep is because I was just knackered, basically. I was.

I didn't sleep very well the previous couple of nights, coming up to Christmas Day. So it wasn't the episode that put me to sleep, it was just. I was feeling knackered and yeah, I was just.

Yeah, so I did watch it that evening and last night. So I'm up to speed on. On what happened and stuff, but, yeah, overall, not the best episode of Doctor who.

Not the best Christmas special for me, but certainly not. Not the worst. It's kind of mid. Like you were saying, not. There were some really, really good bits to it, I think. I think Shooty was. Was great in it.

I. I felt like he had. There was something about his performance that was like. Now that.

Now that he's on his own and didn't have Ruby with him, that kind of affected his. His. How he came across as the Doctor a little bit. He had this. They've played on this before.

Remember back in Tenants era when they played on this thing where Martha had gone and in between Donna and they. They really sort of hammed up this whole melancholy feeling that Tennant's Doctor had and he was all sad and, you know, and. And all that stuff. They.

They didn't quite go that far. But they sort of hinted at the fact that he was. And then he obviously was angry at himself as well.

You know the bit where they heard it in the trailer where the Doctor's not giving him a straight answer?

Adam: 00:37:00

Yeah.

Garry: 00:37:00

He's like, you know, in order to keep the loop going throughout the Time Hotel and this whole sort of bootstrap paradox thing with the code for the briefcase and stuff, he obviously can't tell himself all the details because the loop will be broken. He has to find it out for himself. And his only answer is, you'll find out, you'll find out. And then he loses it.

And he's like, this is why people leave you. You know, this is why you're alone and all that stuff. So they. They played into that a little bit.

And because of that, I feel like we saw some really good range from. From shooty. Of course, we got the crying scene. There was bound to be a scene, of course, where he cries and stuff. But I thought he was really funny.

I was a. He had a good performance in terms. He was funny. A couple of sad moments. Lost his temper a couple of times, which is good.

So there were some good things and.

Adam: 00:37:51

A bit of range.

Garry: 00:37:53

Yeah. Visually as well, the episode looked kind of cool. They went back to doing some physical sets and. And all that stuff. And so, yeah, it was.

It had some good stuff in it. I just don't think it's one that we're going to be talking about in any great detail or depth over the years, to come down the pub sort of thing.

Adam: 00:38:12

It's not what I'm gonna reach for. But then again, a lot of the Christmas specials aren't, to be honest. Like you said, they're a funny beast. There are.

There's only a couple, really, that I really enjoy watching over and over again. Like the Christmas Evasion. I always forget the title of the one. The other one, the one with Kylie. Quite like that one.

Garry: 00:38:30

Voyager, the Damned.

Adam: 00:38:31

That's it, yeah. You know, there's a couple that I. I like to stick on every now and again.

Weirdly, a lot of people love Christmas Carol, which is the one story we haven't. We've left. We've got left to review.

It's the one episode, DOT two that we haven't reviewed, and if things had worked out over Christmas, we were going to do that, but sadly things got in the way, like illnesses and stuff.

So we will get around to reviewing that one day and I'm quite looking forward to doing that because a lot of people write that story and I've only ever watched it once. Can you believe that? I've never gone back and re watched it.

So be interesting when we finally get around to that one to see what I actually think of it. Because I don't really know, to be honest. But yeah, this one, it won't be one I reach for.

And bizarrely, mate, you know me, I cannot stand a gap in my DOT two collection. I will always pre order everything so that, you know, it doesn't matter if it's Doctor who, Doctor, the Widow, the Wardrobe.

I have to have it on DVD so that there's no gap. I haven't. This is the first time I haven't pre ordered the dvd, well, the Blu Ray, because I'm just not bothered about owning it.

And that speaks volumes from a, you know, a collector or fan like myself because I always buy stuff even if, even if it's not good. I know it's sad to say, but that's, you know, that is what a collector is like. They, they cannot have that gap.

But I just thought, no, I'm not, not paying full price for this because I'm just not bothered about owning it. And again, it's not that I really don't like or anything, I'm just not bothered about it.

So I will get it when it's in sale, but that's very unusual for me, mate. I normally ha.

You know, the day it comes out, I have to have it so I can post a picture on Instagram, say, look, I've got the new Doctor special, it's out on dvd. But I just can't bring myself to pay money for it. So I think that that speaks quite a lot about my thoughts on it.

But going back to some of the stuff that, you know, to do, like the content, it, the, the concept itself I thought was really good. When I first watched this, I thought, I love this idea of this hotel with all these different doors in that can lead into different time zones.

What a great concept. And I thought, you know, one of the things I've always praised the mothball for was he always comes up with good ideas, I'll give him that.

He doesn't always know what to do with them, but he comes up with great ideas and, and I thought that was a really good concept. I don't know if you spotted it, mate, but I didn't spot it on the first watch. One of the doors is to Mr. Ben's shop. You know, the shop from Mr. Ben.

Did you see that?

Garry: 00:41:01

I did, yeah.

Adam: 00:41:02

I totally Miss that the first thing and blink and you'll miss it. I thought, what a lovely thing to include because I love Mr. Ben.

But mate, I have to say, even the concept, when I watched on a second watch, it does start to fall apart. Because if you've got a hotel you can check into and go to any time zone, like, you know, the Daleks would love that.

They've been trying to work out time travel for years.

You know, they'd love to check into the hotel and just go into all these different time zones and, and manipulate it and destroy things and, you know, just as one example, or the Master, for example, might want to check in there and, and use those time zones to cause a bit of trouble. And I'm not sure if the concept actually works because also what's the difference between that and the tardis? It's.

Why does the Doctor need to go there? He's got the TARDIS so he can already go to different time zones and stuff.

So what started off as, I think being a really cool concept, I think doesn't quite hold up under the, the weight, to be honest. It kind of falls apart a little bit.

Garry: 00:42:00

You weren't too fond of the, the con, like conceptually having the, the hotel and stuff, not really doing it for you.

Adam: 00:42:07

Yeah, I mean, I, I do think it's a, I think it's a fun concept for the special, but I'm just not sure it holds up if you look into it more than surface level, if you know too deeply.

Garry: 00:42:17

Gotcha. Yeah. Oh. I mean, it's very Moffat, isn't it?

Any, anyone that's, that's watched through them, the, you know, especially the, some of the, the middle Matt Smith stuff.

Adam: 00:42:32

Yeah.

Garry: 00:42:32

Like the Pandorica stuff and all that. It's. Moffat loves a, a good old timey wimey, sort of borderline convoluted kind of thing, you know? Yeah.

So it definitely has that stamp of, of Moffat on it and you do have to keep up a little bit.

It's, you know, it's, it's not the most timey wimey ish thing we've seen and head scratching thing, but I don't know, you do have to, you do have to keep up with it a little bit and also it's that the whole concept of the Time Hotel is something that they've teased as a bit of a spin off territory as well.

Adam: 00:43:13

All right. Yeah.

Garry: 00:43:14

Yeah. So both Russell and, and Steve were interviewed. I can't remember where it was for.

It was either a newspaper, I think it was a newspaper and, and one of them joked and said, look, the Time Hotel is such a wonderful thing. There's so many opportunities there to tell lots of different, you know, crazy stories that we should do a spin off for it, perhaps.

I think they were sort of half joking.

But the, the concept of the Time Hotel is definitely one that's, I think it, it writes, it puts writers into a corner just as much as it opens up opportunities to, because there's only, I think there's only so many ways you can write yourself out of having somebody conveniently show up to save the day due to like a time loop or something. Right.

Adam: 00:44:08

So, I mean, it's a nice idea, isn't it?

And it's like anything in Doctor who, you just don't think too much about it because if you start thinking in, you know, if you start looking too deep into the concept, it does fall apart because, I mean, how does it even work? Like if someone checks in and goes to where was it they went with the guys in the snow in the Arctic and all that.

And so does someone just walk in and say, oh, by the way, I'm staying in a hotel, so don't mind me.

You know, it doesn't quite work if you, if you look too far past the sort of initial concept, but I guess, you know, that applies to a lot of things in Doctor who. And I know Steven Moffat would just say, look, just go with it. And I think in this case, I think that's fine to just go with it.

Garry: 00:44:50

Yeah, you have to. Otherwise it's like I said, you end up head scratching and thinking, what the bloody hell? Just what. Why is that person here now?

And how is the Doctor here talking to himself and stuff? And yeah, and there might not be fans that are familiar with those type of sort of story structures and tropes and stuff.

If you've never heard the phrase bootstrap.

Adam: 00:45:12

Paradox before, then where have you been?

Garry: 00:45:15

Yeah, well, not just that, but you wouldn't, you wouldn't associate that with the Doctor knowing the code to the briefcase.

Adam: 00:45:22

Yeah.

Garry: 00:45:22

And then when you start to try and figure out, well, how did, where did the code come from in the first place? That's when your mind starts to melt a little bit. And then Moffat.

One thing I will say about this in terms of Moffat's writing was that he was very brazen in his just admittance of having this crazy timey wimey stuff going on in two areas, really.

I'll come on to second a bit later, but the first one was this whole code for the briefcase and that cool scene with the Doctor coming in and talking to herself and being a bit cryptic. And then when he's quizzed on the code, he's like, well, you know, the.

He says something along the lines of the universe came from nothing or didn't come from nothing, but nobody ever worries about that. So he kind of does his thing where he's brazenly, like, just brushing it under the carpet, like, yeah, it's a thing.

And, yeah, it's probably something we could get to the bottom of that. May collapse in continuity, may not, who knows? But don't worry about it. Just carry on watching the Christmas special, people.

It's just go with it, you'll be fine. So I will say that about Moffat. He has a. He definitely grew a set, if that's the right phrase. And. And instead of having this.

This massive overhang and this overlap where you get to the end of the episode and you think, bloody hell, Moff. Like, I still have no idea what's going on.

The difference with this one is that a lot of people might not have still had a clue what's going on, but his attitude was, well, I don't really care. Just go with it and have fun and don't worry about it too much. So, yeah, it's the whole time hotel thing, dude, as a concept, was what was cool.

It is very cool. But I think you have to be careful with that stuff, because otherwise I can see it now.

If they brought that time Hotel back either as a spin off or they reintroduce it as for a future Doctor in whatever season, there'll be many, many reviewers who are like, yeah, they have literally wrote themselves into a corner with this one. And it's all too convenient to push either the reset button or have somebody come back from the future to save the past and all that stuff again.

Adam: 00:47:40

And yeah, yeah, I think they've got away with it for this episode. I think, you know, without going under too much scrutiny, you can get away with that time hotel.

But I think if they were to keep going back to it, you would. You're only a can of worms. I think a lot of people have said there's a lot of Moffat tropes in this episode, which there are.

There's a lot of recycled ideas. Some people said it's a bit of a sort of moffic greatest hits, which I. I sort of see to a certain extent, but it didn't feel stale to me.

I mean, I could see a lot of Moffatisms coming in, like you said, like the Doctor knowing the code, but he has to wait to get the code from his future self and all. You know, there's a lot of stuff that's been done before, but as I said, I think. I think he got away with it in this episode.

I didn't sit there sort of rolling my eyes or anything.

Garry: 00:48:28

Yeah.

I think the only time I did that a little bit was when he comes to the realization that he has to wait an entire year at the hotel for the next thing to come around, where, you know, when it. When we got to that point, I was like, we're obviously going to have a montage or whatever with the. With his new friend, etc. You know?

Adam: 00:48:57

Yeah. Which actually was. Was weird because for me, that was one of the nicer part of the episodes.

I actually really liked all that stuff between him and Anita.

Was it the girl in the hotel who actually served as a better sort of companion to the Doctor, for want of a better word, than Joy did, who got completely lost in this episode? I mean, Nicola got. How'd you say it?

Garry: 00:49:19

Nicola Coughlin.

Adam: 00:49:22

Coughlin, that's the one. Was completely wasted as a guest star. I mean, I'd forget she was even in it, to be honest. She got nothing to do.

Was sort of written out for the most part, the episode. But Anita, I thought, was really nice and there was a real. Some real nice chemistry between the two of them.

Some lovely scenes of them just getting to know each other. And again, a bit of a Moffat thing. He's very sentimental, Moffat, but I don't mind it.

You know, there was this whole thing about the Doctor not having any chairs in the tardis. So, you know, there's this thing of actually sitting down and talking and getting to know someone. And I liked all that.

But I was a little bit conflicted because I was also feeling like this feels like it's just bridging the gap to fill 10 minutes. It does feel like filler. Like we are just wasting time to get to the point where the Doctor knows the code. And so I don't know.

Do you know what I mean? It felt like it was filler. It was just filling 10 minutes. It didn't add anything to the story, but it was really nice filler.

And probably the bit of the episode I like the most, you know, seeing the Doctor with all his TARDIS memorabilia lined up, I mean, some people might not like that. They might have thought that was a bit too on the nose, but personally, I loved it. I was like oh, I've got that little Tardis and TARDIS mints, mate.

They are now canon. They were on that shelf. I noticed the old TARDIS mints, the mint tin.

So I like, I liked all that stuff in the middle, but I can't help but feel it was just fill in 10 minutes of air time to sort of carry on the plot, if you like.

Garry: 00:50:48

Yeah, no, I agree with you, dude. Yeah, I rolled my eyes because I was like, oh, okay.

I, I, I thought they're not just going to snap their fingers and a year is going to be over and, and the, the doorway will open itself again. But I thought, yeah, we're going to have a, we're going to have a montage here where the Doctor makes great friends with, with Anita. Yeah.

And her character name, coincidentally, her surname's Ben with two ends. Oh, is it Anita Ben? Yeah. So Moffat clearly had a love for that old, that old cartoon, Mr. Ben. Yeah, which is obviously a clear inspiration. Right.

Because in that cartoon, younger listeners will have no idea about this, but there was a, a very old cartoon back in the day. I think it was the seventies. Yeah, must have been Mr. Ben. Didn't he have like a time travel ago?

He went into a shop door or a hotel door or something like that.

Adam: 00:51:47

It was brilliant, mate.

Garry: 00:51:48

And he was able to time travel.

Adam: 00:51:49

Yeah, that's it.

He goes to see the shopkeeper who magically appears and he tries on a costume and every week it's a different costume and when he pulls the curtain back, having put it on, whatever the costume is, it kind of relates to, he sort of goes to different time zones. So, yeah, maybe that's the Moffat saying.

Yeah, I've ripped off this idea a little bit, but I'm gonna put this little Easter egg in just to say thanks. I don't know. But yeah, it was a very sweet Easter egg, I have to say.

Garry: 00:52:17

It was cool.

Adam: 00:52:18

Yeah.

Garry: 00:52:18

Yeah. And yeah. So there was any other sort of nice moments or not so nice moments?

Adam: 00:52:27

Well, yeah, I mean, there were some very, as I said, Moffat like sentimentality and I don't mind a bit of that as long as it's not too, too much. Did I spot a hobbit door in one of the hotel rooms, mate? Because you're a big Hobbit fan. Was one of those the Hobbit door?

Garry: 00:52:44

I don't think it was. I think no.

Adam: 00:52:46

Oh, I'm sure there was.

Garry: 00:52:47

It could, I think it's, you know, it's quite similar to a hobbit hole.

Adam: 00:52:54

All right. I thought maybe they couldn't quite get away with the copyright. Then I thought I spotted one bit I thought you would know, but nice moments.

Yeah, I mean, there were. There were nice moments scattered throughout the episode. I. I mean, I. I can't really think of any sort. This is what I mean, nothing.

This is what happened after I finished. Watch the episode, mate, is. I thought I kind of enjoyed that. But if you were to ask me, you know, about it, like, it.

There was nothing that really stayed with me, if you know what I mean. But is there anything particular that stood out to you then, in terms of nice moments?

Garry: 00:53:26

The ending, mate. The. So, yeah, a nice moment was some of the scenes that. That he had with Trev. So the character. Character, Trev. What's his surname? Trev Simpson.

Adam: 00:53:45

Trev. That guy, yeah.

Garry: 00:53:48

Because he's a really cool character. Anyone that's seen the.

Adam: 00:53:51

Joel Fry?

Garry: 00:53:52

Joel Fry, yeah. Anyone that's seen the comedy show called Plebs, which is a hilarious program, he's in that.

He plays a character called Stylax in that and he's really funny. So if anyone's seen that, you'll relate to his kind of demeanor and. And that sort of thing is quite similar.

So I thought that was really nice, like the way that he's meant to be, you know, policing what's going on in the hotel. But the Doctor just ends up talking him round and sort of recruits him as his sort of undercover agent sort of thing.

So it wasn't a nice ending for him, you thought? Was an ending sort of midway through the episode after he loses the briefcase and, you know, turns into stardust or whatever. But.

And then he has a bit of a comeback at the end. So I thought those scenes were really nice with him. And I like the scenes in the beginning with Anita, but I thought the ending was such a lovely.

It's just wholesome feel good. And Murray Gold's music was beautiful. That last five minutes really played on, pulling the heartstrings and stuff and.

Adam: 00:54:58

You mean the stuff with the star and all that?

Garry: 00:55:00

The star, yeah.

You know, because he's been so desperate to try and save Joy, you know, he's gone through this whole process of trying to figure out the villain guards, you know, thing with the star and why they're doing this and stuff. And then he's gone through the process of. Oh, that was the other thing as well. That was very. Moffat bringing back the. The Valengard stuff and.

Adam: 00:55:22

Yeah, and all that.

Garry: 00:55:23

But when he was trying to save Joy and he. And he. He was Quite nasty to her for a little while. He only did it so she could break sort of the psychic connection, I guess, with.

With the briefcase and the star and everything. And she actually comes round and she's like, you know, everything you said was true and. And all that. And then she's like, don't worry. I'm not.

I'm not worried about dying. I'm sacrificing myself so that I can save everybody. And so that was all, you know, it was all, you know, very.

Like I said at the beginning, it didn't feel very Christmassy, but this last five minutes felt very, very nice and stuff like that.

Adam: 00:56:02

So how did you feel then about the COVID stuff? Because that obviously played into the ending with her mum, who. And I didn't quite understand why her mum dissolved into the star. I don't know. But.

But how did you feel about. A lot of people feel like the COVID storyline was kind of shoehorned in there, like, oh, here we go, here's another message, blah, blah, blah.

But how did you feel? Do you think it was necessary? A lot of people said it didn't need to be in there.

There was a line about I had to stick by the rules, my mum died alone. And there was a message in there, for want of a better word. How do you think it was handled? And.

And how do you feel about that in terms of the ending, which, you know, you say you liked the ending, but did that play into it? Do you think that was a good part of it, or.

Garry: 00:56:51

It's hard to say what the motive was for that, I think, because I think if you took that out of the story, I think the story would still be fine. You could still. You could still have this narrative of her mum dying and passing away, and for whatever reason she was not there at the time, and.

And stuff like that. So I think the COVID introduction was. I think it's important to. To have it in there because it highlights a real. I was about to swear then, dude.

Adam: 00:57:23

Oh, steady. We're a family podcast.

Garry: 00:57:25

Exactly. Yeah. So I think it highlights a very beepy moment in time, which I think needs to be. Not needs to be, but I think.

Adam: 00:57:34

It'S not to be forgotten.

Garry: 00:57:36

Not to be forgotten. Yeah.

And obviously a fictional drama like Doctor who is not the place for sort of, you know, proper archive stuff or anything like that, but I think it's a little sort of stick in the sand across Doctor who's modern era about when certain things happened in the real world. So. And I think it did also. It did also add to the emotional side of things in that last closing act of the story as well.

I think it's only because I think it was so relatable to a lot of people watching it.

So I think that made you feel even more of an emotional connection to Joyce as a character, because so many of us, if you were lucky enough not to be impacted by somebody around that time, then great. But I think for a lot of us who did lose family members and friends at that point, it kind of brought it home that, like, yes, we.

We understand why she was so sad about all that and so regretful and all that stuff. And then when her mum. I mean, that was kind of weird. That was a weird Moffat thing at the end, when Joy absorbed the star and became the star and.

Yeah, and then her mum, it's. It was like. It was like she was able to just pick somebody and make them part of the star as well, you know, and all that. So that was a bit weird.

But at the same time, it was a. A lovely kind of reunion, I guess.

And her mum, it was cool that her mum looked up in the sky, saw that the star was Joy, immediately noticed it was her daughter and stuff like that. So, yeah, it was a lovely, you know, little. Little moment and stuff, but the COVID part specifically, I think, I don't hate it.

I don't wish it wasn't there. I just. I feel like the story could have equally been as emotional and stuff without it. But, yeah, what do you. What about you?

Adam: 00:59:30

Yeah, I kind of agree, mate. I think. I think that I understand why people said it maybe was a little insensitive, maybe a little bit too soon, for want of a better phrase.

But I do think it added a more emotional punch for me, like you said, because it is something a lot of people can relate to. So I'd like to feel like it didn't upset anybody.

And I think, although it is maybe, you know, it was put in there to have a dig at the government, I do think it is something we shouldn't forget. So I. I didn't really have a problem with it being in there, to be honest, because I felt like, you know, this is something that happened.

A lot of people did die on their own because of what, you know, the government restrictions.

So although it may have been, you know, for one of a better phrase, a message being put into the end of the episode, personally, I didn't mind it because I thought it's an important message, to be fair, and it did play into the whole storyline, it didn't feel. To me anyway, it didn't feel shoehorned in. You know, I think the problem is nowadays that Doctor who is.

We're so quick to sort of pick up on, you know, all these different sort of messages that are being put into the storylines that we, we sort of almost jump on it straight away. Oh yeah, yeah. They've had to go at the government.

Of course, they couldn't go an episode without being thing and I don't, I think this was handled quite well personally, but I can see why some people might have thought it was a little insensitive, but for me it just had. It just gave the NC more of an emotional impact and it is something that actually happened to a lot of people.

So, yeah, I, I felt, I felt it kind of added to it. But also, like you said, it wouldn't have made any difference if it hadn't have been included. It still would have been a nice wrap up.

that's supposed to be back in: 2020

But so she wouldn't have been there in the hospital for her to know that she had died. And it again is a bit of a. You could start going and you know, it does open up another can of worms.

But again we won't, you know, we'll, we'll just go with it again. But you know, I mean it did, it did open up a few problems, but. Yeah.

Garry: 01:01:49

God.

Adam: 01:01:49

But yeah, I don't think it's. I don't think, I don't think it was too sledgehammered in the whole covert thing. Personally, I think it's. It kind of fitted in with the story.

Garry: 01:01:59

Yeah, agreed. Yeah. Wasn't too bad. And yeah. What's the, what would you say is you're sort of not so sort of pleasant view on, on any of it then, is there, Is there.

Is it just the overall vibe of the story or is there anything in particular that makes you think, oh, this is just a, a mid story, not one I'll reach for again anytime soon?

Adam: 01:02:23

Well, no, as I said, it's. The thing with it is, is I did find it enjoyable. It's just. It almost feels like a mid series episode.

You know, it just felt too average like for a special.

I think when, you know, when I talked about the Christmas specials that I like to revisit, like Christmas Invasion, you think of like the killer Christmas Santas or you Think of the TARDIS flying next to the. The taxi cab with Donna in it, with the Doctor leaning out. You know, there were such epic moments. Just can't think of.

And like, you just asked me, you know, about moments. I can't think of any sort of epic moment or. Or anything that really sort of. Ah. That bit when, you know. So it was just a.

Just a very sort of okay episode, really, so that I don't really have a problem with it. Just don't really. It just won't be one that I. It's not. Just not very memorable.

Garry: 01:03:15

Yeah. I raise you. Dude, our rager. Okay, shall we talk about some characters then? See how we got on with those.

So there was a few supporting actors that popped up a couple of times. We had Sylvia Trench. She was the lady on the Orient Express.

Adam: 01:03:34

Oh, yeah.

Garry: 01:03:35

Who was reading Murder on the Orient Express, which is a. Oh, I didn't even clock that. Fun little thing. Yeah, that was cool. And then we had the guys who were up on Everest.

So that would have been Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay. Those two were, again, actual people. They were the first people to summit Everest. So the thing I liked about the.

Oh, and then we had the old couple in, like, the. The Blitz. The World War II.

Adam: 01:04:01

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Garry: 01:04:02

Sort of thing. That was. I think that was Mr. Single.

Adam: 01:04:06

Mr. Single.

Garry: 01:04:07

I think so. I think. Yeah. And. And his wife.

And what was cool about these side characters is that they got the memo in terms of looking completely perplexed and weirded out by the Doctor just randomly turning up out the blue and.

And especially towards the end with Sylvia Trench, where the Doctor turns up back on the train, but then he, you know, has the whole grappling hook and the rope to, you know, break into the. Into the old stone casing to get the briefcase and stuff like that. So those guys were quite cool because they.

They understood that their main objective was to be like. The expression on their face to be like, what the bloody hell's going on? Like, who's this person? What's going on? So that was kind of.

They were kind of cool.

Adam: 01:04:52

Yeah, yeah. The supporting little. Like you said, the background characters are all fairly good. I thought it's weird just you mentioning that.

That scene of him on the train roof with the rope. I can already hear the music in my head. As soon as you said it, I'm like, yeah, I could hear the 15th Doctor theme kicking.

But, yeah, no side character, mate. Yeah, they're all pretty good. Like I said, they got the memo.

Garry: 01:05:14

They got the memo, yeah. Okay. And what about Anita, Ben? We've mentioned her briefly already, but she was. She was the hotel manager who.

Who befriends the Doctor, and they have a whale of a time just being ordinary for a year. You know, he takes up residency in the hotel, works, doing odd jobs and fixing things and. And helping out and all that stuff.

And it's quite emotional when they have to part company at the end because she tears up, because she's. I'm not sure if there's any love interest there, but she's certainly grown fond of him, you can tell that. And. But then she tries to.

She tries to play off at the end to sort of emotionally protect herself, and she's like, you know, I always knew that you were gonna go, you know, I knew that this wasn't permanent, all the rest of it, but I think a little part of her wants it to be more longer term than. Than. Than a year sort of thing, and him buggering off, so. But that was kind of cool.

She was, like, you mentioned, I think you mentioned earlier, she was almost a decent companion, more so than. Than Joy's character, in a way, so. But she was. I thought she was good. She was played by Steph Diwali. She was. She was good, mate.

Adam: 01:06:30

I thought she was one of the highlights of the episode, actually. And it's weird because she sort of came out of nowhere, didn't she?

I just thought she was going to be like the hotel receptionist, you know, I didn't expect her to play such a form of a better phrase, emotional part, you know, her relationship and friendship with the Doctor really blossomed in those 10 minutes that they were sort of together. 10 minutes of screen time. I mean, not. Sorry, it's a whole year in their universe. But no, I thought she was really good and I.

I don't recognize this actor, Steph De Whaley. I don't know. She's been in other things, but she. Yeah, she gave a very natural performance.

She had very good chemistry with Shooty, I thought, and they had some really lovely scenes together. And I've just thought of a nice moment, actually, was when she. When she went to hand the Doctor a plunger and he said.

When he was doing some maintenance and he said something like, is that thing armed? You know, I thought that was a fun moment. So those two worked really well together. So she was a very pleasant surprise for me.

I wasn't expecting this character to. To sort of be the highlight or one of the highlights of the episode. I thought. I thought she worked really well with shooting. I'd be.

I'd be very happy to see her pop up again, you know, if the Doctor went back, you know, to say hello. Although maybe he feels it's better off left. But, yeah, she was a good character and the. And the actor did a really good job.

I thought of playing what initially felt like quite a sort of stern, you know, hotel manager to actually showing this softer side and. And, you know, it was a. Almost like a fully rounded character in a very short space of time, which is not always that easy to do. So.

Yeah, she was really good.

Garry: 01:08:15

She was good. Yeah, she was good. And that was a really cool part of the episode as well.

I think it was like 10 minutes long, that whole middle bit, if you like, where he's like Mr. Joe Public Normal, which is kind of cool. And I agree with you. I love all the little, little TARDIS collectibles that he had on there.

Adam: 01:08:35

Yeah.

Garry: 01:08:36

On the shelf that. They were very cool.

Adam: 01:08:37

Did you like the mop on the stairs? A lot of people didn't like that. I didn't mind. People were like, oh, that was just so silly, the mop cleaning.

Garry: 01:08:46

So it's all right, it's a Christmas special.

Adam: 01:08:48

Yeah. You know, if you're going to get hung up on that, you're never going to get through Doctor who.

Garry: 01:08:52

Exactly. Yeah. Okie dokie. What did you think, too?

So the guy I mentioned earlier, Trev Simpkins, played by Joel Fry, he was a fun little character and it was one of those times where you really actually felt for a side character at the time, because, you know, when he. He gets the briefcase, so he gets taken over by the Starseed and then he loses it quite early on, it gets transferred over to.

To the Silurian hotel manager played by Jonathan Aris. And we all know that he's going to die now because that's. That's just the thing. But it wasn't the fact that he died that was heartbreaking.

It was the fact that he worded it in a way that was like, you know, I said I wouldn't let him down, you know, and here I am letting you down sort of thing. And you thought, oh, mate, you know, it was, you know, it wasn't really your fault sort of thing. And, yeah, so, yeah, he was a cool little character.

And then he had a bit of a come back and save the day moment where he realized that the, the, the psychic graft or whatever it was that sort of enabled him to. To speak to somebody the Doctor had manipulated that earlier on with the sonic screwdriver. So he had a link to the Doctor and the Sonic and stuff.

And he came back and he was like, look, I can pinpoint the. I can pinpoint the. The star brief, you know, star seed in a briefcase and helps him out.

So he had a bit of a comeback, but he was a fun little character.

Adam: 01:10:25

Yeah, he's a fun character and I recognize him from Plebs as well. And he does off. He suits this sort of character, doesn't he? Plays it well. And I'm glad he popped back up. I.

I wasn't expecting him and I felt like I should have said that coming. But, yeah, when he popped back up, I was like, oh, it's Trev. So, yeah, he was good. I thought Joel Fry did. I think he was well cast as that character.

It's what he does best, that sort of character.

Garry: 01:10:52

Yeah, defo. Okay. And then we had a very small, Very, very small cameo, I guess, from Millie Gibson as well.

Adam: 01:11:02

Yeah, golly, I nearly forgot. Yeah.

Garry: 01:11:04

At the end, and gets a phone call from her mum. We assume it's her. It's her real life mum that she gets a phone call from. So, yeah, it's.

Yeah, that was kind of cool, but just blink and you miss it sort of thing. I think it was just there just for some sort of continuity and momentum through to season two.

Adam: 01:11:24

A reminder. It's like, oh, don't forget about Millie. Yeah, yeah, because she was just kind of staring out of the window at the start.

It was a bit of an odd little cameo, really. I mean, the Doctor kept staring at the phone and. And Anita was like, well, you know who you. Who is it you're wanting to phone?

And I was thinking, well, why can't he phone her? They didn't. It's not like they. It's not like they had a big row. Like, he could phone her and say, hey, Rubes, how's it going? What are you up to?

Oh, I'm stuck on blooming Earth. Yeah. You know, So I didn't quite get, you know, why he can't go and. Am I forgetting something? Am I forgetting a plot point that he can't?

Garry: 01:11:59

No, I don't think so.

Adam: 01:12:00

I think. I know, I know she left crying and perhaps it wasn't the best way to, you know, to leave her, but.

But anyway, yeah, it was nice to see Millie pop up, mate. And actually, I've just reminded myself of another thing that a lot of people have been saying about, you know, and this is the whole issue with.

I Think. But the bioregeneration is. The Doctor is stuck on Earth. You know, he's got a blooming. He's got another TARDIS just around the corner.

Why doesn't he go and see old 14? Go and have a. You know, go and see him sat in his garden with Donna.

Oh, by the way, I've just, you know, you know, this whole thing of having 14 stuck on Earth as well has kind of been glazed over and does again, open another big can of worms, doesn't it? So the tenant Doctor. So, yeah, again, him being stuck on Earth doesn't quite add up.

If you think there were quite probably quite a lot of ways he could have gone if he wanted to. But then I, I'm.

I guess I would justify that by saying no, he knows he needs to stay there because it's probably the only way he'll work out the code to be able to tell himself the code or whatever. I'm sure you could find a reason for it. But having this whole 14th doctor still out there stuck on Earth is.

Is a little bit problematic, really, isn't it?

Garry: 01:13:09

It could be. It could be problematic, but at the end of the day, there was no reason for.

So the 14th doctor, that's just chilling with the Nobles and Chilling and what stuff. There's no reason to suggest that he's even aware of.

Of what's going on, because it's not like a giant alien spaceship is hovering over London and is threatening to do stuff, you know, with all that. So I don't know, there's. Yes, on one hand, that Doctor being around is like, well, but then you run into the problem of.

We have, with lots of other franchises, the. Probably the most popular one is the Marvel franchise, right, where you have a particular character on Earth that's doing stuff in a series.

It could be Hawkeye, could be, you know, Daredevil, could be any of those things where it gets to the point where, you know, New York City is under threat or the world's under threat, you could then argue, well, where are all the Avengers?

Adam: 01:14:14

Yeah, I get it, yeah.

Garry: 01:14:16

You know, all the Avengers are here, ready to save the day, yet none of them are here to. To do anything. So, you know, it's that storytelling thing where you can't write everything for everyone all the time.

You know, there has to come a point where. And I. I stand by that.

I think, you know, the 14th doctor probably just wasn't aware of because the Doctor felt to me like shooty just stayed in the hotel, like 99 of the time. Yeah, throughout this year of him chilling around. So, you know, there's no reason why their paths should cross or anything like that.

Adam: 01:14:54

So, I don't know, you've just reminded me another of a nice line, actually, you said, about him being stuck in the room. I did like it where the Doctor was, was describing that sad, lonely room that Joy, you know, had booked into.

And she said, but you spent a whole year there. Like, I loved how she turned that round on him. And he sort of stopped and thought, oh, yeah, you know, like, it was a sad only room.

But I made it, you know, a warm place to be. And I thought that was a nice way of turning that.

Garry: 01:15:21

That.

Adam: 01:15:21

That sort of situation round and making the Doctor realize something that he hadn't thought of.

Garry: 01:15:28

Yeah, that was cool. Yeah. Okay, so that was going back to Millie Gibson. That was her very small Ruby cameo for Ruby. So Nicola Coughlin then. Cufflin. Coughlin.

I'm sure I'm butchering now. I'm so sorry.

Adam: 01:15:43

I think you got it right the first time and then I got it wrong and now. Now. Now I've got that stuck in your head, I think.

Garry: 01:15:49

Yeah. So Nicola Coughlin then playing Joy some.

I think you mentioned it earlier, and I think a lot of people have said this, is that she was potentially wasted a little bit as a character. Yeah, I think you're. Your mind's there, isn't it?

Adam: 01:16:07

Yeah, pretty much, mate. I mean, there was very little buzz leading up to this Christmas special. Let's be honest. Fandom were clutching at straws.

But one of the things that people did seem excited about was Nicola Coughlan. Coughlan Scott's our name. I'm just gonna call her Nicola. Okay. I'm just gonna call her Joy, actually.

So one of the things I picked up on social media leading up to the special was that was the only thing people seem to be genuinely excited about. She's obviously very popular in other shows. They must be shows I don't watch, because I wasn't.

I'm not really aware of her, but I was aware there was a bus for her to be in Doctor who, so those people must have been very disappointed because she was hardly in it. And B, she got very little to do. And I think you could be forgiven for forgetting she was even in it, really.

It's only really the end bit with the star and that where she actually gets it becomes part of the sort of plot part of the main story. So I feel sorry for the. I feel sorry for the actor Nicola for sort of being Dealt a bad hand, really.

But I also feel sorry for those people that couldn't wait to see a. I think, you know, they thought there was going to be lots of adventure with her and the Doctor, and there was none of that. So she.

Yeah, just wasted, in my opinion. Absolutely wasted. I'd forget she was even in it if it wasn't for the ending. Not nothing about her performance, by the way.

I must just quickly add that in. She. She was fine. I liked her, you know, her performance with what she was given. So it's no reflection on her as an actor, just.

Just the material she was given or not given or not given.

Garry: 01:17:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree, dude. I think you're right. As a. As a performance, she's very. She's very nice, very sweet, you know, very, very likable.

You know, there was no kind of weird ulterior motive for a character. She just happened to be destined for this, you know, thing that the Doctor tries to help out.

And it kind of goes back to like an early sort of Russell T. Kind of thing that he used to play on back in the day where he. He's.

There was a couple of stories where he was basically like, look, the Doctor can't. Can't always do. He can't always save a particular person, but there are times where he's just like that. Not.

Not the Doctor specifically causing this, but the story ends up with just everybody being saved. Yeah, you know, he did this with. What was it? The Doctor dances, was it?

Adam: 01:18:48

Yeah, Empty child Doctor dances.

Garry: 01:18:50

Yeah. He even had Eccleston's Doctor, like, shout it out, doesn't he? At the very end, he's like, not today, Rose. Everybody lives.

You know, So I think they played into this a little bit where the Doctor couldn't save Joy, specifically her, but then he comes to the realization that she's cool with that, you know, and a bit like, even goes back to. I mean, as you talk about this more, it's clear that they really did pull on threads from other stories and other ideas from that.

Because you mentioned the Voyagers are Damned earlier. At the end of that episode, Kylie's character sacrifices herself and she ends up becoming atoms and particles and all that sort of thing.

So it's very similar thing where the Doctor, at first glance and early on is like, I need to save this person, as he naturally does, or they naturally do. And then it transpires that sometimes, you know, people are happy to sacrifice for the greater good.

And the Doctor comes to that realization along with her, and it's all, you know, a very nice sort of happy ending. So her performance leans into that. Quite nice. She's very likable, you know, very, very sweet. Just not that much screen time.

I mean, we're missing out a very big scene that we haven't spoken about with the T. Rex and.

Adam: 01:20:06

Oh, yeah, you forgot about that as well.

Garry: 01:20:08

That was kind of cool. The effects on that were pretty good and. And all that.

And that was the scene just after he had been quite nasty to her, but he only did it to break the link and. And all that stuff. And. And that was good. So she's in it, you know, the beginning, a couple of bits, and then at the very end, obviously.

But, yeah, the screen time didn't really. I felt like she should have been in it maybe a tad more, you know, maybe.

Adam: 01:20:35

Yeah, maybe I was just expecting her to be in it more because there's been, you know, so much publicity around her being in it. I mean, she becomes the star of Bethlehem, which is, you know, quite something. A lot of people said they saw that coming a mile off.

I, again, I didn't. Didn't, but I perhaps should have. It did seem obvious once we got to the end, but. Did you see that? Did you.

Did you get about halfway through the episode thing? I know she's gonna be a star and I know exactly which one.

Garry: 01:21:02

I did not. No, I didn't. I didn't get that. No.

Adam: 01:21:05

Good. I'm glad it wasn't just me then. A lot of people were like, yeah, yeah, saw it coming a mile off, mate. And I'm like, oh, really?

Garry: 01:21:13

Okay. No, I didn't. Did not see that coming. It was. It was. I think that was also that last bit where. Because, you know, throughout the.

y, it said, you know, London,: 1940

And the Doctor looking down and seeing Bethlehem.

And it turns out that, you know, Joy was viewed as the Star of David, I guess, guided all the wise men and shepherds everything to Jesus and stuff like that.

So potentially, I think that had a quite a controversial risk to it, you know, because anytime that you see, you know, sort of heavy religious stuff being used in the show or anything like that or anything, just anything like that, you do get a pocket of fandom that feels like they're being preached upon a little bit, or it's just in on the nose, too much of a message, you know, that sort of thing, but I think in this case, I think it's cool because, you know, it all kind of. It's a little bit like the snake eating its own tail, but, you know, joy being, becoming the star is what led the.

The wise men to Jesus and that kicking off that whole story. And that's good in itself, so that's good. And. And all this stuff you could probably read into a lot of this, you know, on a.

On a deeper level, but I think it was okay.

Adam: 01:22:47

Yeah, it's open to interpretation, which is, I think, how it should be.

Garry: 01:22:51

Yeah. And actually it does link back as well a little bit more to the Voyage of the Damned, because the.

The tenth Doctor in that says to Kylie's character what her character name is.

Adam: 01:23:02

Astrid.

Garry: 01:23:03

Astrid, yeah. He says to Astrid that he got the last room at the inn in Bethlehem.

Adam: 01:23:08

Oh, right.

Garry: 01:23:09

Yeah. So there's. That's what I mean. Like, moth just draws on all these little nuggets of. Of things from previous stories and stuff.

Adam: 01:23:16

So he does.

Garry: 01:23:17

Yeah. Anyway, sorry, that was. Yeah, so I think we agree that Nicola, it was a.

It was a good performance, but just not in it as much as we expected or thought she was underused.

Adam: 01:23:30

Yeah.

Garry: 01:23:32

Yes. And then lastly, shooty. Shooty Gatwa. 15th Doctor. Just very short and sweet for me. I thought he had a crack in one thing. I will say he.

I thought he had a really, really good performance in this one, dude.

I think there was a couple of times where I was like, yeah, that's kind of typical stuff we've seen all season long with him crying and stuff like that. But I think we just have to accept the fact that that's the way that Russell's written this Doctor and the way that.

Shoot, he's leaned into this character a bit where he does wear his heart on his sleeve a lot, you know, and does, you know, get emotion, you know, quite a lot and stuff like that. So there was a little bit of. That was like eye rolling a bit like, here we go, you know, Doctor's gonna cry again and all that. But.

But some of the bants with. With Trev and the emotional stuff and then the angry stuff at himself and all that lot. Some really good range from him, I thought.

I really enjoyed his performance in this one.

Adam: 01:24:25

Yes, mate, I did as well. I think Shooty was, Was, Was. Was fantastic in this episode, actually. And I think. I think the. Moffat writes the Doctor better than rtd, actually.

I think the Mothball's better at coming up with the sort of quirky little stuff. And, you know, and the quirky ideas.

I love to shoot you, for example, being in a dressing gown, like Arthur Dent, you know, from Hitchhikers, and just little things like that. And the opening scene, you know, where the shooty. And this again, is a very. Almost like 11th doctor.

It's a very Moffat thing to do, to write is when, you know, he was like, what did I miss? I saw something. And he starts getting dressed. Why am I getting dressed for? You know, he's like talking to himself.

And, you know, again, it's just this very doctory thing to do, this sort of quirky characteristic, if you like, which I think Moffat writes very well when he's writing any Doctor. So I. Yeah, I thought she was great in it, mate. I thought he had, like you said, good range.

I could do without the crying, but again, that could have been forgiven if we hadn't had so many other episodes where he was crying. I would have had no problem with him getting upset in this one if we hadn't seen it, you know, other times.

But like you said, we're just gonna have to accept this is a. A more emotional Doctor. So that. That's just how it is. But, yeah, shooty, mate. Good in it. Yeah, I just thought he.

I wouldn't say carried the episode, but he certainly made it, you know, an in. Very enjoyable watch because of his performance. Yeah.

Garry: 01:25:58

Yes, agreed. Again, dude, agreed. All right, so is there anything else you want to mention? I've just.

Very quickly, I wasn't too blown away in the first half of this episode with Murray's music, but, mate, the. From the middle part onwards to the end, some really good stuff from him.

Not quite the big bombastic themes of old from when he was in it before, but especially those last five minutes. Minutes. That beautiful music there. Absolutely gorgeous. Really emotional music. And.

Yeah, so I really enjoyed Murray's music for the most part, especially in the last half, but is there anything else you want to mention?

Adam: 01:26:39

No, I agree with you about the music. I thought Murray was. Yeah, doing what Murray does best.

No, I haven't got anything else in my notes, apart from some reason I've written mavity at the bottom of the page. I guess we must have heard that mentioned again. I can't remember where, but I've written it down, so we must have done.

No, I've got anything else to say, mate. I don't think.

Garry: 01:26:58

Yeah, he did shout that.

Adam: 01:26:59

Did he? I was gonna say I've written it down on the page for some reason, but. Yeah, so that's still A thing.

Garry: 01:27:04

That's still a thing. That's. Yeah, that's a. That's a thing.

Adam: 01:27:08

She was in the book. I'm reading. Sorry, man. Must just. I'm reading Ruby Red at the minute, which is one of the new thirteenth Doctor, not thirteen.

What am I about fifteenth Doctor novels. And yeah, it's.

Garry: 01:27:19

It's.

Adam: 01:27:19

I've noticed it's popped up in there as well. I bet. I bet all these authors are like shaking their fist at Russell having to keep changing that.

Garry: 01:27:28

Yeah, it will come back round, definitely in season. I don't know. Pick a day in the future. Season 8, episode 3. That will change back. Yeah, I'm sure. Righty O. Let's put some scores on this one then.

You go first, bud. What's. What do you reckon?

Adam: 01:27:49

Yeah, well, I'm gonna go over six out of 10, mate. It's five out of 10 is very mid, which I felt the episode was, but there was more to it. I felt like it was an enjoyable watch, actually.

I will stick a 0.5 on there because it's not bad. This is the thing. It's not a bad episode, it's just not a great one. So I'll go with 6.5 out of 10.

Garry: 01:28:09

6.5. Okie dokie. I will give it a. I will give it a 6.5 as well.

Adam: 01:28:17

Were you thinking of giving it a 7?

Garry: 01:28:20

No, no, no. I was hovering around a 6. Yeah, I was hovering around a 6. I was thinking.

Yeah, a 6 is about right because it's definitely not absolutely middle of the road. I think there are some good things in here to enjoy. Yeah, but it's not a good. So I would class like a good episode as a 7 upwards.

Adam: 01:28:39

Yeah, same, but.

Garry: 01:28:40

But it's not just quite there this year, so I'm. Agreement, dude. 6.5 as well.

Adam: 01:28:46

Okay.

Garry: 01:28:48

So yeah, that's the. That's the scores on the doors for Joy to the World, the Crimbo special.

Now, moving forward with the podcast, we're not really sure on exactly what the plan is. Moving forward. No, just to be completely honest with you guys, because we were at a situation where bar a couple of animated stories left.

If anyone's listened over the last couple of months, you'll know that we have. We've reviewed everything in the world of Doctor who, even the spin offs and stuff, We've done it all.

So short of just covering Doctor who news and merch and other little tidbits like that, we're not sure. So keep an eye on. On the socials. And our Discord server, we'll keep you guys up to date.

We will absolutely 100 be putting content out each and every month. That's. That will still happen because we'll still do the monthly roundtables with the writing team. They go out monthly.

And we will also do our normal episodes. We're just not sure at the moment what we're going to do for those. So we'll let you know what's going to happen because we have got another.

We're not going to reveal anything yet, but we have got another podcasting project that's going to kick off very soon.

Adam: 01:30:05

Yeah. Which I'm very excited about.

Garry: 01:30:07

Yeah.

Adam: 01:30:08

So very, very excited about.

Garry: 01:30:10

Yeah. So what's the best way to put it? So in, in the. The bigger picture, the podcasting network of Garry and Adam is going to continue.

Very much so, which you'll find out about next week. But in terms of Doctor who, that's still going to go and we'll still be doing content for that. But just.

We'll need to figure out how we, we do that moving forward. But we will absolutely be.

Still be doing, like I said, the monthly roundtables and also regular episodes, but maybe not every single week or there will be every week. Who knows? But we'll, we'll, we'll figure that out.

Adam: 01:30:45

Yeah.

Garry: 01:30:45

And let you guys know, but keep your ears peeled for. On the socials for this other thing that we've got coming anyway, which is going to be kind of cool. Yes.

And I think on that note, dude, let's end it there. That was episode 416.

Adam: 01:31:00

Alrighty.

Garry: 01:31:26

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming back with us to do another episode of the Big Blue Box podcast.

That was episode 416 and our review of Joy to the World and 6.5s aplenty for that one. In terms of new Doctor who, we haven't got anything yet announced in terms of start date or anything. We think it's gonna be March. Ish. Who knows?

We think. But you know, you never can tell with those things.

But I mentioned a little a few minutes ago that we were gonna sort of let you know what's going on with Doctor who. One thing that's an absolute certainty is when there is new Doctor who coming out, we will be doing every week and every reviews and all that stuff.

So.

Adam: 01:32:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Garry: 01:32:10

So in the meantime though, make sure that you are following or subscribing to the podcast. As I mentioned, if you're a new listener, whatever app you listen to, your podcast on. Give us a follow on there.

That way when new episodes do drop, you get a notification, all that stuff. You can also listen on the website bigblueboxpodcast.co.uk plus you can read all the reviews and articles and stuff like that from the writing team.

And there are links there to go off to the Social and the Discord server. So hop in there and and chat some cool Doctor who with lots of other cool Doctor who fans.

And once again, don't forget to remember to check out my co host channel on YouTube, the Geeks Handbag.

Adam: 01:32:50

Geeks Handbag. Go check out my YouTube channel. Loads of vids on there for you to enjoy.

Garry: 01:32:56

Go and do it. The YouTube channel.

Adam: 01:32:58

Go do it now.

Garry: 01:33:00

And Adam's on the socials as I said, on the same name, the Geek's Handbag.

Adam: 01:33:03

That's it.

Garry: 01:33:04

Right? Until next time. My name's Garry.

Adam: 01:33:07

My name's Adam.

Garry: 01:33:08

And remember.

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