Joy is not the absence of sorrow and the way through pain is to embrace it. In today’s episode, we meet Catherine Gourdier, the author of Breathe Cry Breathe, a book about her personal journey through grief as she comes to terms with the sudden traumatic loss of three close family members. 

In Catherine’s words, “when you can find the strength to open your heart, you just may find some blessings on the other side of the mourning.”

Highlight’s from this episode:

Identifying 5 types of grievers (nomad, seeker, normalizer, memorialist, activist)

Working with psychics and mediums as a way to help move through grief

Believing in a life after death eliminates the fear of dying and brings comfort

How to talk to our elders about giving up their car keys

Continuing to celebrate the lives of those you’ve lost

About Our Guest Catherine Gourdier:

Catherine Gourdier was born and raised in Kingston, Ontario. She moved to Toronto to attend College. For sixteen years she enjoyed a successful career as an independent sales agent.

In 1990, Catherine shifted careers. For almost 20 years she worked as a 2nd Assistant Director in the film and television industry. In 2002, she optioned a novel, wrote the screenplay, and produced the film, "Some Things That Stay."

Catherine divides her time between North Kawartha, Toronto, and California but Kingston, Ontario will always be her home.

The sudden loss of her parents and youngest sister, Julie, compelled her to write her first book, "Breathe Cry Breathe", published by HarperCollins Canada.

Although she misses the adrenalin rush of working in the film industry, Catherine hopes to continue on her writing path of nonfiction books.

How to connect with Catherine Gourdier:

Website: catherinegourdier.com

To support the Special Olympics Canada: https://www.specialolympics.ca/donate

Or do a google search for Special Olympics in your hometown. 

Become a member of the Joyful Inspired Living community to receive special gifts from our guests: 

https://joyfulinspiredliving.com/m/login?r=%2Fmembers-only

Thanks for listening!

If you want to learn more about what I teach around finding clarity and creating a life you love full of purpose, passion, and joy, I encourage you to join our community at Joyful Inspired Living. Here’s the link: http://www.joyfuljourney.ca/

About your host:

I’m your host, Anita Adams, an award-winning leader and the founder of Joyful Inspired Living, an organization dedicated to teaching people how to access their highest most authentic selves so they can find clarity and create a life of purpose, passion, and joy. In addition to hosting the Joyful Journey Podcast, I offer retreats, both live and online, and private coaching programs to further guide my clients on their journey to their highest selves.

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Anita Adams: 00:00:05

Welcome to the joyful journey podcast. If

Anita Adams: 00:00:08

you're uncertain about what you really want or unsure how to be

Anita Adams: 00:00:12

a force or good you know this world craves, then this is the

Anita Adams: 00:00:16

show for you. I'm Anita Adams, your host and guide to finding

Anita Adams: 00:00:21

clarity and creating a life you love. Let's tap into our inner

Anita Adams: 00:00:26

wisdom, access our highest self and unleash joy. As we raise our

Anita Adams: 00:00:32

vibration we heighten the collective consciousness and

Anita Adams: 00:00:35

that my friends, is the joyful journey. Let's dive in. Hey,

Anita Adams: 00:00:43

joyful journey errs I need to Adams here your host of the

Anita Adams: 00:00:45

joyful journey podcast and today I'm so pleased to introduce you

Anita Adams: 00:00:48

to Katherine gaudier, a powerhouse woman who I've known

Anita Adams: 00:00:52

as an assistant director, producer and writer in the film

Anita Adams: 00:00:55

industry. Catherine is also the author of a gripping book,

Anita Adams: 00:00:58

breathe cry brief, in which she shares her personal journey

Anita Adams: 00:01:03

through grief. As she comes to terms with the traumatic loss of

Anita Adams: 00:01:06

three close family members. I invited Catherine to be on our

Anita Adams: 00:01:11

show, because joy is not the absence of sorrow, and the way

Anita Adams: 00:01:14

through our pain is to embrace it. In Catherine's words, grief

Anita Adams: 00:01:19

doesn't vanish quickly. It packs a suitcase, and moves into your

Anita Adams: 00:01:23

heart and your head. In the last chapter of her book, she so

Anita Adams: 00:01:27

eloquently says, when you can find the strength to open your

Anita Adams: 00:01:31

heart, you just may find some blessings on the other side of

Anita Adams: 00:01:35

the morning. Today, we are going to talk about moving through

Anita Adams: 00:01:39

grief, opening your heart and finding the blessings. Welcome,

Anita Adams: 00:01:43

Catherine. I want to thank you for writing such a raw and

Anita Adams: 00:01:48

honest account of this time in your life and to acknowledge the

Anita Adams: 00:01:53

bravery that it took and bringing this story forward. It

Anita Adams: 00:01:58

seems you don't hide anything, even even your messiness and

Anita Adams: 00:02:03

sometimes less than attractive behaviors. It feels very raw and

Anita Adams: 00:02:08

authentic. I really believe your book will help many find

Anita Adams: 00:02:13

strength in the in the aftermath of their loss. So again, thank

Anita Adams: 00:02:18

you for being here with us today.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:02:19

Thank you for inviting me.

Anita Adams: 00:02:22

Catherine, why don't we start with you sharing

Anita Adams: 00:02:25

what happened on that fateful night in November of 2009.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:02:30

Okay, it was the night of my youngest

Catherine Gourdier: 00:02:33

sister's surprise birthday party. I also just want to

Catherine Gourdier: 00:02:37

mention, I'm the eldest of eight. So this tragedy not only

Catherine Gourdier: 00:02:42

affected me, but all of my siblings and 16 nieces and

Catherine Gourdier: 00:02:46

nephews on my side of the family alone. So we were gathered in

Catherine Gourdier: 00:02:52

zombie costumes for this horror themed surprise birthday party

Catherine Gourdier: 00:02:56

for my sister, Julie. And we were well, I literally was

Catherine Gourdier: 00:03:02

putting the finishing touches of blood dripping down my sister's

Catherine Gourdier: 00:03:06

neck. when the phone rang. And my sister in law answered, and

Catherine Gourdier: 00:03:11

we found out my mother had been hit by a car, walking, walking

Catherine Gourdier: 00:03:16

home from church. And in full zombie attire, my husband and I

Catherine Gourdier: 00:03:23

dashed out to the accident site, only to find out once we

Catherine Gourdier: 00:03:29

arrived, that my sister Julie had also been struck. The

Catherine Gourdier: 00:03:34

ambulances were gone. And we went to the hospital, where we

Catherine Gourdier: 00:03:40

found out my mother had died. And Julie was so severely brain

Catherine Gourdier: 00:03:45

damaged that we had to say goodbye to her the next day. So

Catherine Gourdier: 00:03:51

surprise party turned out to be a real bad surprise.

Anita Adams: 00:03:57

Yeah, what a there's, there's no there are no

Anita Adams: 00:04:00

words for

Unknown: 00:04:02

something like that. And I can't even can't even

Unknown: 00:04:05

imagine the horror and the pain and and everything that you and

Unknown: 00:04:12

your family had to go through during that time. And I know

Unknown: 00:04:17

that

Anita Adams: 00:04:19

in from your book. Your father died shortly after

Anita Adams: 00:04:23

and I believe and I think you've said in your book you you

Anita Adams: 00:04:26

believe He died from a from

Catherine Gourdier: 00:04:28

heartbreak? broken, broken heart, broken

Catherine Gourdier: 00:04:30

broken heart. Yeah. Which is it is real. And I I've researched

Catherine Gourdier: 00:04:36

that and there is a piece on broken heart syndrome in the

Catherine Gourdier: 00:04:40

book as well.

Anita Adams: 00:04:41

Yeah, yeah. In your book, you acknowledge that that

Anita Adams: 00:04:46

healing journey is very different for everyone and that

Anita Adams: 00:04:50

everyone must find their own way. And along your journey, you

Anita Adams: 00:04:54

discover that there are five different types of Griever

Anita Adams: 00:04:57

identities. Can you tell us A little bit about that. I know

Anita Adams: 00:05:01

you've you've written some stuff about this, maybe we can share

Anita Adams: 00:05:04

with our audience what those five identities are, that might

Anita Adams: 00:05:08

help people that are going through their own their own

Anita Adams: 00:05:11

grief. Well,

Catherine Gourdier: 00:05:12

I'd like to say that I wrote this, but I

Catherine Gourdier: 00:05:16

found this on Google. Google is oh my god, like everybody's

Catherine Gourdier: 00:05:20

friend, isn't it? I don't know what I was Googling in

Catherine Gourdier: 00:05:23

particular that day, but I came across this article written by

Catherine Gourdier: 00:05:28

Dr. Susan Berger, explaining the five different types of

Catherine Gourdier: 00:05:32

Grievers. So one is a nomad. This type are in denial, and

Catherine Gourdier: 00:05:39

they run from their grief. An example of that would be a

Catherine Gourdier: 00:05:42

friend of mine whose husband died suddenly a few years ago.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:05:46

And she's been traveling non stop since and has recently, she

Catherine Gourdier: 00:05:51

read my book about three months ago, and reading that she

Catherine Gourdier: 00:05:55

realized that's what she was doing. She wasn't with her

Catherine Gourdier: 00:05:58

grief, I stepped into the pain she was traveling, trying to

Catherine Gourdier: 00:06:03

just take her mind off of it, and run from it. Number two, is

Catherine Gourdier: 00:06:09

a seeker. A seeker incorporates religion and spirituality into

Catherine Gourdier: 00:06:14

their lives to help them deal with their grief. Number three,

Catherine Gourdier: 00:06:20

a normalizer focuses on recreating a sense of family.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:06:25

For example, if you lost a child, you might want to spend

Catherine Gourdier: 00:06:30

more time with a niece and nephew to try to help you fill

Catherine Gourdier: 00:06:35

the void. Number four, a memorialist. This type is

Catherine Gourdier: 00:06:44

committed to keeping the memory of their loved one alive. A well

Catherine Gourdier: 00:06:49

known example of this would be the Terry Fox Run, but you don't

Catherine Gourdier: 00:06:54

have to go that big. I've done I've done seven fundraisers for

Catherine Gourdier: 00:07:02

Special Olympics Kingston. Since Julie died all in her memory.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:07:08

I've done a huge one. The first one was a huge one $300 tickets,

Catherine Gourdier: 00:07:14

350 guests or more big downtown Toronto. And I've also done

Catherine Gourdier: 00:07:21

house parties. And I had a birthday party at my house and I

Catherine Gourdier: 00:07:28

said in lieu of a gift, please bring a donation in memory of

Catherine Gourdier: 00:07:33

Julie for Special Olympics, and raised just a simple house party

Catherine Gourdier: 00:07:39

raised over $2,000, which enabled them to buy new team

Catherine Gourdier: 00:07:44

uniforms for the school. Number five is an activist, an activist

Catherine Gourdier: 00:07:54

takes the focus off their own grief by helping others usually

Catherine Gourdier: 00:07:59

by getting involved with an organization within their

Catherine Gourdier: 00:08:02

community. Or as I did, or getting involved with something

Catherine Gourdier: 00:08:07

that had to do with your loved one or how they died. So as an

Catherine Gourdier: 00:08:13

example, I I tried to get across walk built at the accident site.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:08:22

And the other thing I did was was bring awareness to the

Catherine Gourdier: 00:08:27

elderly seniors driving tests to I don't know if most people are

Catherine Gourdier: 00:08:34

aware, but you don't have to get in the car. For a driving test

Catherine Gourdier: 00:08:40

from the time you get your license at 17 years old till

Catherine Gourdier: 00:08:44

whatever it is you don't drive anymore, you could be 95 and

Catherine Gourdier: 00:08:48

never have to get in the car again. So I was trying to

Catherine Gourdier: 00:08:52

promote awareness as well which I was a guest on the 16 by nine

Catherine Gourdier: 00:08:57

show. Promoting that so but you could just find something that's

Catherine Gourdier: 00:09:05

touches you that's relating to your loved one. Right? And to

Catherine Gourdier: 00:09:10

keep busy it's good to do something that is good for

Catherine Gourdier: 00:09:14

somebody else to keep busy.

Anita Adams: 00:09:17

Yeah, absolutely. So it sounds like you you've

Anita Adams: 00:09:22

kind of done all but maybe the the Nomad actually because I

Anita Adams: 00:09:26

know that you've you have been a seeker from some of this, and

Anita Adams: 00:09:30

we'll get into that a little bit. normalizer would you did

Anita Adams: 00:09:37

you fall in that category at all?

Catherine Gourdier: 00:09:40

Um, I met one of Julie's friends and at

Catherine Gourdier: 00:09:44

first I thought I'm going to you know, include her more in my

Catherine Gourdier: 00:09:49

life. Maybe I'll invite her to the cottage or something. And

Catherine Gourdier: 00:09:53

then I realized a it was too soon. Yeah. And you know And she

Catherine Gourdier: 00:10:01

wasn't Julie. Right. She wasn't my family. And she ended up

Catherine Gourdier: 00:10:05

moving out to Calgary. So I couldn't. But I immediately did

Catherine Gourdier: 00:10:09

I want, I want, I need somebody else to focus on. Right. And,

Catherine Gourdier: 00:10:16

you know, I called my mom, every week, every weekend, since I'm

Catherine Gourdier: 00:10:21

from home at 18 years old. And so I started calling my aunt

Catherine Gourdier: 00:10:26

Joan, every weekend

Anita Adams: 00:10:29

as a replacement. Oh, right.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:10:31

So that's a kind of my, the normalizing is

Catherine Gourdier: 00:10:35

trying to Yeah, attention somewhere else. Yeah.

Anita Adams: 00:10:41

And then the the immoral list, I guess holding on

Anita Adams: 00:10:45

to possessions, and maybe creating shrines and things like

Anita Adams: 00:10:50

that. Would that be an example of?

Catherine Gourdier: 00:10:53

Yes, I also did a, I made a beautiful Julie

Catherine Gourdier: 00:10:57

collage. Yes. vacation at the lake. Yeah. And, you know, some

Catherine Gourdier: 00:11:04

people write a song. And you wrote a poem. And I wrote a

Catherine Gourdier: 00:11:08

poem.

Anita Adams: 00:11:09

Yeah. So, so beautiful.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:11:13

It's just simple. Because it feel like it

Catherine Gourdier: 00:11:15

feel her voice. Like she would, she would get it.

Anita Adams: 00:11:19

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And what, what a

Anita Adams: 00:11:24

beautiful way to, to work through your grief actually, is

Anita Adams: 00:11:28

to, to do these things, and to find connection. And then the

Anita Adams: 00:11:35

last, the last one, the activist, you know, like that, I

Anita Adams: 00:11:39

guess that you became very active in many in many areas.

Anita Adams: 00:11:43

And we'll come back to that a little bit more with some calls

Anita Adams: 00:11:46

to actions that we can leave our guests with, if they feel so

Anita Adams: 00:11:49

inspired. I imagine throwing yourself into a lot of this work

Anita Adams: 00:11:57

would help alleviate the pain.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:12:01

Oh, absolutely. But again, also, you

Catherine Gourdier: 00:12:04

know, perhaps being an activist, wouldn't work for everybody.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:12:09

Yeah. I'll go back to saying I'm the eldest of eight if I didn't

Catherine Gourdier: 00:12:13

say I was the eldest before. And with that does bring a different

Catherine Gourdier: 00:12:17

personality. Mm hmm. I've been self employed most of my adult

Catherine Gourdier: 00:12:24

life. And so, but, but being being active, rather than, which

Catherine Gourdier: 00:12:35

I know a lot of people do and grief is hard. It's yeah, it's

Catherine Gourdier: 00:12:41

like I I did not sit around in my sweats all day long. And cry,

Catherine Gourdier: 00:12:49

and I tried to give myself something to do like I working

Catherine Gourdier: 00:12:56

out was one. To just release some of the happy endorphins.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:13:03

Which exercise did it didn't mean, like you said, I don't

Catherine Gourdier: 00:13:08

have to be crying all the time. I could still be sad and yeah,

Catherine Gourdier: 00:13:14

doing stuff. Yeah, for sure. You know, cocktail hours with

Catherine Gourdier: 00:13:19

friends and, and, and laughing with them. It doesn't mean that

Catherine Gourdier: 00:13:24

pain is gone. Just

Anita Adams: 00:13:27

I I imagined Catherine that that writing of

Anita Adams: 00:13:31

this book was a very big part of your healing journey as well.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:13:39

Yes. With my again, my family everybody

Catherine Gourdier: 00:13:43

grieves differently and a few times when I would bring it

Catherine Gourdier: 00:13:48

bring up the accident or start to talk about, about our loved

Catherine Gourdier: 00:13:53

ones that were gone. You know, I had a sister say, do you have to

Catherine Gourdier: 00:13:57

bring up mom, dad and Julie all the time? Like, you have to talk

Catherine Gourdier: 00:14:00

about them all the time? Yes, I do. I can't talk about them. To

Catherine Gourdier: 00:14:08

my sisters than writing writing helped me it lifted that Yeah.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:14:15

lightened the burden of not being able to talk about it,

Catherine Gourdier: 00:14:19

typing about it. And you know, yes, perhaps Perhaps I didn't

Catherine Gourdier: 00:14:29

have to publish it for the world to see but through through the

Catherine Gourdier: 00:14:33

journey with with some of the the therapists and friends and

Catherine Gourdier: 00:14:38

friends that were losing parents during this because this process

Catherine Gourdier: 00:14:42

this was 10 years in the making. They were losing their parents

Catherine Gourdier: 00:14:46

alone Catherine I can't wait to your book it's done I want to

Catherine Gourdier: 00:14:48

read it. Initially it was going to be I thought I would do like

Catherine Gourdier: 00:14:53

a self help book because once I saw the the the right key

Catherine Gourdier: 00:14:57

clairvoyant and then I saw this medium and the new modulation

Catherine Gourdier: 00:15:00

technique a nice, I had these different capes and just in the

Catherine Gourdier: 00:15:04

grief counselors in the groups. I thought I'm going to write

Catherine Gourdier: 00:15:07

like a self help book about it. But a self help book doesn't go

Catherine Gourdier: 00:15:12

into your heart the reader insight Hall. It's just a self

Catherine Gourdier: 00:15:17

help book. Yeah. Now. But so I thought the way they'll believe

Catherine Gourdier: 00:15:24

me is if they can experience some of my pain. Yeah. No. And

Catherine Gourdier: 00:15:30

then and then and then read Oh, and Katherine did this and it

Catherine Gourdier: 00:15:34

did help her. So maybe it'll help me.

Anita Adams: 00:15:37

And that, that is very inspiring. And again,

Anita Adams: 00:15:40

there's a lot of bravery that goes into doing that, because

Anita Adams: 00:15:44

you could have taken a, like you said, a more of a self help.

Anita Adams: 00:15:48

This is what you do approach. And instead, you you've talked

Anita Adams: 00:15:52

about this is how you went through the process. And and you

Anita Adams: 00:15:55

put it all out there, you know, like you talked about needing

Anita Adams: 00:15:59

that drink, and you know, and the disconnect with your husband

Anita Adams: 00:16:06

and how your frustration with your husband. And then And then

Anita Adams: 00:16:09

again, you talk about how he's there to support you. And, and I

Anita Adams: 00:16:12

love how you weaved reality. And the messiness, as I said earlier

Anita Adams: 00:16:18

and the beauty together, you know, because we're not we're

Anita Adams: 00:16:21

not, we're multifaceted. We have so much it's going on for all of

Anita Adams: 00:16:26

us. And we process and deal with things differently. And it's not

Anita Adams: 00:16:29

always pretty, and particularly when when life gets really hard,

Anita Adams: 00:16:33

it's definitely not going to be pretty. So I just really want to

Anita Adams: 00:16:37

commend you for taking that really brave step. Because

Anita Adams: 00:16:41

there's a lot of people that just they don't know how to how

Anita Adams: 00:16:43

to deal with something, I would never I wouldn't have a clue how

Anita Adams: 00:16:46

to deal with something like what you've gone through. And like

Anita Adams: 00:16:50

you I probably would feel like I need to hold it together and be

Anita Adams: 00:16:55

strong and not show my emotions. And you know, and even like, I'm

Anita Adams: 00:17:00

that older sister as well that, you know, and you take on that

Anita Adams: 00:17:03

role of being having everything held together.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:17:08

I'm no I'm no angel. But what happened to

Catherine Gourdier: 00:17:12

me that night in the hospital was I put on the I immediately

Catherine Gourdier: 00:17:17

went, Okay, what do I have to do now? What has to be done now?

Catherine Gourdier: 00:17:24

Everybody else bawling their eyes out. And I'm going ak i

Catherine Gourdier: 00:17:29

know. Like, I got to do something. What do we do? Yeah,

Catherine Gourdier: 00:17:33

so my my grieving was put on hold a bit too. Was this like,

Catherine Gourdier: 00:17:40

plan the funeral? You know? Yeah. Yeah. And

Anita Adams: 00:17:44

there's a lot a lot happening all at once and and

Anita Adams: 00:17:48

you feeling the responsibility to take the lead on that. I want

Anita Adams: 00:17:54

to you talk about in your book, how you turn to psychics and

Anita Adams: 00:17:59

mediums, you also elude that that's not typically something

Anita Adams: 00:18:03

you would do, yet. You decided to go down that path and give it

Anita Adams: 00:18:08

a try. And I'm really curious, I'm I'm quite intrigued by some

Anita Adams: 00:18:13

of the stories you shared. And I was wondering if you can talk a

Anita Adams: 00:18:16

little bit about that. Here and the How did that experience

Anita Adams: 00:18:21

helped or maybe not helped in some cases with with your

Anita Adams: 00:18:25

grieving process? Well,

Catherine Gourdier: 00:18:27

the first the Reiki clairvoyant she was

Catherine Gourdier: 00:18:30

called she was, it was she was referred to me by a friend who

Catherine Gourdier: 00:18:36

had seen her because she lost her mother suddenly, tragically

Catherine Gourdier: 00:18:43

that she was her mother was murdered, actually, so oh my

Catherine Gourdier: 00:18:46

gosh, like so. I I was in the world. Yeah, whatever, man. You

Catherine Gourdier: 00:18:55

know, yes, I'll try. I'll try and I'll try anything. Let's go

Catherine Gourdier: 00:18:59

and do it. And oh, my God, this woman, bonita. She just, I can

Catherine Gourdier: 00:19:10

tell you some of the things that I heard, but it's only when you

Catherine Gourdier: 00:19:14

hear messages specific to yourself that'll that you'll

Catherine Gourdier: 00:19:18

really believe it. Because I have people like my agent called

Catherine Gourdier: 00:19:23

causes. Hocus Pocus. But you know, just like simple things

Catherine Gourdier: 00:19:31

are deeper things that I'll probably cry if I say but simple

Catherine Gourdier: 00:19:35

things like your grandmother's here. She's saying something

Catherine Gourdier: 00:19:39

about Raspberry Jam cookies. What? My mother or my

Catherine Gourdier: 00:19:46

grandmother made these round raspberry jam cookies with

Catherine Gourdier: 00:19:51

molasses with the hole in the middle where you could see the

Catherine Gourdier: 00:19:54

raspberry jam. It's very specific. It's very specific.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:20:00

Oh, can you have an aunt dear? She's aunt Joan, your aunt Joan

Catherine Gourdier: 00:20:05

is not doing well. I'm going to just backtrack here and say, I

Catherine Gourdier: 00:20:11

did not give my last name to any of the psychics that I saw. And

Catherine Gourdier: 00:20:19

some of them they don't even believe in googling. They just

Catherine Gourdier: 00:20:23

they don't they don't go there this Bonita isn't even on the

Catherine Gourdier: 00:20:26

internet. So when you hear even things like raspberry jam

Catherine Gourdier: 00:20:32

cookies, and she does you can't look that up on the internet.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:20:37

Yeah, and you believe another fun one is about my dad taking

Catherine Gourdier: 00:20:44

out his front teeth. Putting them on the end of his tongue

Catherine Gourdier: 00:20:49

and clicking them down. And all your dad's here. This was a

Catherine Gourdier: 00:20:54

message actually to my to my sister, but she shared it with

Catherine Gourdier: 00:20:57

me and we both the howled

Unknown: 00:20:59

like, like who? Like you

Anita Adams: 00:21:01

can't make that up? Right? Yeah, that must have a

Anita Adams: 00:21:05

lot of comfort.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:21:07

Just Just one other thing too for the

Catherine Gourdier: 00:21:10

listeners or readers. So all of the sessions, all my therapy

Catherine Gourdier: 00:21:15

sessions were recorded except the group session. So it's

Catherine Gourdier: 00:21:20

verbatim. I've transferred everything is verbatim except

Catherine Gourdier: 00:21:25

it's shortened. Right? It's all it's not hocus pocus. Yeah. Made

Catherine Gourdier: 00:21:30

up for the book.

Anita Adams: 00:21:32

Yeah, I was so intrigued by all that. So what

Anita Adams: 00:21:36

is your interpretation now of AR? And has your thoughts about

Anita Adams: 00:21:41

life after death changed at all? Or where do you stand on that

Anita Adams: 00:21:45

spectrum?

Catherine Gourdier: 00:21:46

Well, as an example, I Well, I do believe in

Catherine Gourdier: 00:21:52

the afterlife. But we have a country house that has windows

Catherine Gourdier: 00:21:58

all the way around. And I would spend a lot of time there alone.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:22:04

And sometimes, you know, looking out there in the darkness, it

Catherine Gourdier: 00:22:09

could be kind of freaky. After my parents died, and after

Catherine Gourdier: 00:22:15

seeing these mediums, and knowing they're here, they are

Catherine Gourdier: 00:22:20

here. I have never been afraid since I'm not even. I'm not

Catherine Gourdier: 00:22:26

afraid, really of anything. Now. And I'm not afraid of dying. I

Catherine Gourdier: 00:22:31

don't want to die or violent. But I'm not. And I just Yes, I

Catherine Gourdier: 00:22:38

on I believe in the afterlife. And I've I've got gotten lots of

Catherine Gourdier: 00:22:43

messages. I became a bit of a medium addict, actually, then

Catherine Gourdier: 00:22:47

Oh, yeah. But I have another I have another one scheduled in

Catherine Gourdier: 00:22:51

two weeks. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

Anita Adams: 00:22:55

I imagine there is a lot of comfort in in that, you

Anita Adams: 00:23:00

know, we don't, we don't know, we don't really can't even

Anita Adams: 00:23:05

comprehend all the possibilities of this universe. I think our

Anita Adams: 00:23:11

understanding is so limited, and there's so much potential and

Anita Adams: 00:23:15

this idea of life after death really intrigues me and gives me

Anita Adams: 00:23:21

it gives me a lot of comfort. And also makes me feel less

Anita Adams: 00:23:25

afraid of of death. It's part of the continuum, I guess. And like

Anita Adams: 00:23:32

you, you know, I do seek the wonder I seek the wonder and

Anita Adams: 00:23:38

it's, it brings me joy, exploring these things as well.

Anita Adams: 00:23:43

So very cool. I want to shift to the advocacy and the fundraising

Anita Adams: 00:23:50

work that you touched on earlier, I so you have thrown

Anita Adams: 00:23:54

yourself quite headstrong headlong into a number of

Anita Adams: 00:23:59

different things and love you to talk a little bit more about

Anita Adams: 00:24:02

some of the work that you you started and that you continue to

Anita Adams: 00:24:05

do, and the passions that you have around that work. And that

Anita Adams: 00:24:09

the awareness you're trying to bring on and at the end of the

Anita Adams: 00:24:12

show, or rather, in the show notes, we'll add some links to

Anita Adams: 00:24:16

some of the things that you're talking about. Because I think

Anita Adams: 00:24:18

there's there's some beautiful work that you're doing here that

Anita Adams: 00:24:21

was sparked because of this this tragedy. So please share.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:24:27

Well, no, mostly what I have done is is

Catherine Gourdier: 00:24:30

the fundraisers for Special Olympics. What can you just

Anita Adams: 00:24:35

for our audience's sake can can you say tell us a

Anita Adams: 00:24:38

little more why Special Olympics is so dear?

Catherine Gourdier: 00:24:41

Well, yes, of course, because Julian was a

Catherine Gourdier: 00:24:45

Special Olympics basketball player. Yeah. And I had the

Catherine Gourdier: 00:24:49

pleasure of seeing her play twice. And yes, just to seeing

Catherine Gourdier: 00:24:54

the joy. Yeah, again using word I love that word of it. have on

Catherine Gourdier: 00:25:01

their faces playing. Yeah, yeah, I have a cute memory of Julie.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:25:09

It was a practice. And we're in the gym. And my brother, my

Catherine Gourdier: 00:25:14

brother Dave walked in and he was a bit late. He was late. And

Catherine Gourdier: 00:25:20

you know how you sit just on the benches right on the floor right

Catherine Gourdier: 00:25:23

there in the gym? Yeah, he was walking in. And Julie's like, my

Catherine Gourdier: 00:25:28

brother Dave is here. And they stop playing this in the middle

Catherine Gourdier: 00:25:31

of the game. Stop. I do.

Anita Adams: 00:25:38

It's heartwarming. Huh, great. So you started some

Anita Adams: 00:25:44

fundraising for the Special Olympics in honor of your

Anita Adams: 00:25:48

sister, Julie,

Catherine Gourdier: 00:25:49

was what some people don't know is Each

Catherine Gourdier: 00:25:52

chapter has to raise their own funds for their own events. Ah,

Catherine Gourdier: 00:25:57

so smaller towns might have it a little bit more difficult than

Catherine Gourdier: 00:26:01

big cities. Right. So that's why I have specifically said Special

Catherine Gourdier: 00:26:07

Olympics, Ontario Kingston. But helping Special Olympics

Catherine Gourdier: 00:26:13

anywhere is, is a beautiful thing to

Anita Adams: 00:26:16

do. Yeah, I love how you've tapped into your

Anita Adams: 00:26:21

resources in the in the film industry and, and all that to

Anita Adams: 00:26:26

create the excitement and the awareness and to bring out some

Anita Adams: 00:26:30

people that want to support the work that you're doing. You

Anita Adams: 00:26:33

know, you're you're in a really great position to raise

Anita Adams: 00:26:36

awareness and have so many skills at your, you know, in

Anita Adams: 00:26:40

your back pocket from the years of being a producer and knowing

Anita Adams: 00:26:45

how you basically I feel like you've been trained, in many

Anita Adams: 00:26:48

ways from your work to do what you're doing now in your

Anita Adams: 00:26:51

advocacy work.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:26:53

Well, the first one, the first fundraiser

Catherine Gourdier: 00:26:57

that I did was the big fancy one. And it was a film industry

Catherine Gourdier: 00:27:01

event, because initially it was I was starting to organize an

Catherine Gourdier: 00:27:08

event to honor my husband, Dawn, for producing 100 films. And

Catherine Gourdier: 00:27:14

then the accident happened like a month after we started this.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:27:17

So then it waited for the full year. And then the CO producer

Catherine Gourdier: 00:27:21

came to me and said okay, so I'd still really like to do this to

Catherine Gourdier: 00:27:26

honor him. It was his publicist. And I said, Well, okay, except

Catherine Gourdier: 00:27:31

he's also going to be turning 60. So I said, we can I'll help

Catherine Gourdier: 00:27:37

you. But it has to be his birthday party as well. And I

Catherine Gourdier: 00:27:42

wanted to all the money to go to Special Olympics. Great. We did

Catherine Gourdier: 00:27:46

We did Special Olympics, but we also I think goes 15,000 went to

Catherine Gourdier: 00:27:51

the Canadian film center scholarship, Don Carmody

Catherine Gourdier: 00:27:53

scholarship as well. So but that was a big one but since then

Catherine Gourdier: 00:27:57

I've done two in Kingston but they had just as many people

Catherine Gourdier: 00:28:01

like 300 people at them but it wasn't a $300 ticket.

Anita Adams: 00:28:07

Oh good stuff. And but it's

Catherine Gourdier: 00:28:09

all but it's all to Yes. That old you know

Catherine Gourdier: 00:28:13

make something good out of something bad

Anita Adams: 00:28:16

yeah, yeah. That's beautiful. And I you created are

Anita Adams: 00:28:21

the Special Olympics in Kingston. They created a an

Anita Adams: 00:28:26

award for for the the Olympians in your your sister's name is

Anita Adams: 00:28:32

that correct?

Catherine Gourdier: 00:28:33

Yes to honor Julie the joy of Julie.

Anita Adams: 00:28:36

That's right. I just love it. Oh boy. When you

Anita Adams: 00:28:41

describe your your sister and the joy that she had in

Anita Adams: 00:28:45

everything she did it just it just that up my heart as well.

Anita Adams: 00:28:51

And in reading about Julie, she just sounds like the most

Anita Adams: 00:28:56

bubbly, amazing woman and what a what a blessing to have her in

Anita Adams: 00:29:01

your life and to you know, have had that that time with her even

Anita Adams: 00:29:06

though it was short. I understand that that's that is

Anita Adams: 00:29:09

painful. And you are keeping her memory alive, which is so

Unknown: 00:29:13

beautiful, so beautiful. It's

Catherine Gourdier: 00:29:18

Yeah, it's fun. It's worth it.

Anita Adams: 00:29:21

Yeah. Are you still actively involved with the

Anita Adams: 00:29:23

Special Olympics?

Catherine Gourdier: 00:29:25

I am. And actually this I can't really

Catherine Gourdier: 00:29:30

publicize the amount yet but a dear dear friend of mine passed

Catherine Gourdier: 00:29:37

of ours last May. And he had come out to three of the Special

Catherine Gourdier: 00:29:44

Olympics fundraisers that I did. He was best man at our wedding.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:29:49

So we've known him a long time, obviously. And I only got the

Catherine Gourdier: 00:29:53

news yesterday for Special Olympics Ontario emailed me says

Catherine Gourdier: 00:29:58

Do you know that bla bla bla and Anyway, he's given, like an

Catherine Gourdier: 00:30:04

enormous donation. I'm going to say like it's not $100 or

Catherine Gourdier: 00:30:10

$1,000. It's a lot, a lot more. So now they're talking to me,

Catherine Gourdier: 00:30:14

what are we going to do with it? So yeah, so So I have a meeting

Catherine Gourdier: 00:30:19

with them on the on the weekend.

Anita Adams: 00:30:21

Wow, how wonderful. What, what a beautiful ripple

Anita Adams: 00:30:23

effect. Yes, exactly. And how you can touch so many lives by

Anita Adams: 00:30:30

taking action with something that's important to you. I love

Anita Adams: 00:30:35

it.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:30:36

Well, we again, when you if you ever have

Catherine Gourdier: 00:30:38

the pleasure of going to a Special Olympics event, like

Catherine Gourdier: 00:30:42

just treat yourself and

Anita Adams: 00:30:46

I will, I will. That's I want to experience what

Anita Adams: 00:30:50

you're talking about. It sounds pure.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:30:53

And I still like I had already thought once

Catherine Gourdier: 00:30:56

this pandemic was over, yes, we have to do another party, the

Catherine Gourdier: 00:31:00

athletes love music and dancing. And they haven't been able to do

Catherine Gourdier: 00:31:04

that for two years. It takes money to do that. And nobody's

Catherine Gourdier: 00:31:07

been able to raise money for two years now. So without John's

Catherine Gourdier: 00:31:11

generous donation, like I was still, we're still planning on

Catherine Gourdier: 00:31:16

trying to do another fundraiser.

Anita Adams: 00:31:19

Great. So this sounds like the Special Olympics

Anita Adams: 00:31:22

is something that you're you will continue to stay involved

Anita Adams: 00:31:25

in for a while. Very good. Tell me about some of the other

Anita Adams: 00:31:30

advocacy work you're doing. I know that you were really

Anita Adams: 00:31:34

lobbying to make some changes with the regulations for elder

Anita Adams: 00:31:41

drivers. You wanna talk a little bit about that.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:31:43

I would like to say I've done something

Catherine Gourdier: 00:31:46

since. Okay, my original attempt and, and being interviewed on

Catherine Gourdier: 00:31:52

the too old for the road, on the 16 by nine show, but now that

Catherine Gourdier: 00:31:59

the book is out there, and now you know, once we can start to

Catherine Gourdier: 00:32:03

meet people in person, then I would still like to try. Just

Catherine Gourdier: 00:32:08

make it aware. I mean, what when, when that 16 By nine

Catherine Gourdier: 00:32:11

episode aired, I had three people at least three or four,

Catherine Gourdier: 00:32:15

email me or follow me and said, I took the keys away from my

Catherine Gourdier: 00:32:19

dad, or my or my Mom hung up her keys after watching that show

Catherine Gourdier: 00:32:27

and finding out what happened to this unfortunate 85 year old

Catherine Gourdier: 00:32:32

woman. Because it's hard on the drivers, it's they grieve, as

Catherine Gourdier: 00:32:37

well. They suffer Oh, of course, they do an accident, the driver

Catherine Gourdier: 00:32:41

suffers. Yeah.

Anita Adams: 00:32:43

And I'm I'm not sure if we actually mentioned at

Anita Adams: 00:32:45

the beginning, we may have that your family was hit by and an 85

Anita Adams: 00:32:51

year old driver. Yeah. I also want to present something that

Anita Adams: 00:32:58

you said in the book that you actually waited in. In Intel,

Anita Adams: 00:33:02

this woman passed before you publish this book, because you

Anita Adams: 00:33:06

didn't want to cause any more pain for her and that you

Anita Adams: 00:33:09

forgave her. I think that's brave. shows a lot of heart from

Anita Adams: 00:33:16

from you.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:33:18

Woman just about so she was 84 she was

Catherine Gourdier: 00:33:22

turning 85 in seven weeks. And I found out through a friend of

Catherine Gourdier: 00:33:28

their family that she her family had asked her to hang up her

Catherine Gourdier: 00:33:34

keys. And she said, I will when I'm 85.

Anita Adams: 00:33:37

Right. Yeah, seven weeks. Too late. Yes. Do you

Anita Adams: 00:33:44

have any tips on language that we can use to talk to our family

Anita Adams: 00:33:51

members or anything you can share with us that can help us

Anita Adams: 00:33:54

have that conference? Because that's, that's a really awkward,

Anita Adams: 00:33:57

uncomfortable conversation to have, and an important one. And

Anita Adams: 00:34:03

the idea of taking away some freedoms from our our parents

Anita Adams: 00:34:08

can be very upsetting. Yet, the consequences are so huge. If if

Anita Adams: 00:34:13

they're not if they shouldn't be driving, and I don't know, maybe

Anita Adams: 00:34:17

you might not have something that you can share with us. But

Anita Adams: 00:34:21

I thought I'd throw that out.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:34:22

Like, I didn't have to do that. Yeah.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:34:25

But again, just an example. Another friend of mine, gave my

Catherine Gourdier: 00:34:30

book to her mother. Hmm,

Unknown: 00:34:32

that's a great idea. And mother said

Catherine Gourdier: 00:34:36

I know why you gave me this book now. 87

Catherine Gourdier: 00:34:41

and still driving and she didn't want her mother to drive. And so

Catherine Gourdier: 00:34:44

then she didn't have she didn't have to have the conversation.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:34:47

The mother went okay, I get it.

Anita Adams: 00:34:49

Yeah, anymore. I've, I've had this convert sort

Anita Adams: 00:34:53

of a conversation. I've shared this book and the interview I'm

Anita Adams: 00:34:57

having with you with my mother. inlaw who, she's, she has some

Anita Adams: 00:35:07

eye issues and when her eyes are great, they're great. And when

Anita Adams: 00:35:11

they're not there, they're not. So I was just suggesting that

Anita Adams: 00:35:16

she may need to consider at a time to put the keys away

Anita Adams: 00:35:20

entirely. And I felt really awkward and uncomfortable saying

Anita Adams: 00:35:23

that, and at the same time, you know, like, just sharing the

Anita Adams: 00:35:27

consequences of what happened with your family. You know, it's

Anita Adams: 00:35:30

just maybe that's like you said, maybe that's just a good way to,

Anita Adams: 00:35:35

to have the conversation as to people this book and, and, yeah,

Anita Adams: 00:35:41

just share that because it is it's pretty devastating. What

Anita Adams: 00:35:45

can happen if you're,

Catherine Gourdier: 00:35:46

you know, she she was never the same

Catherine Gourdier: 00:35:48

either.

Anita Adams: 00:35:50

Yeah, I can't imagine I can't imagine taking

Anita Adams: 00:35:52

somebody's life, you know. Any, any words of wisdom that you can

Anita Adams: 00:36:04

leave with our audience, anybody that has gone through grief,

Anita Adams: 00:36:10

anything that you have particularly done that has

Anita Adams: 00:36:14

helped you more than other things in your healing journey?

Anita Adams: 00:36:20

Well,

Catherine Gourdier: 00:36:22

it one grief is sudden, like, I believe

Catherine Gourdier: 00:36:27

that's the worst this sudden death is. I can't describe how

Catherine Gourdier: 00:36:33

bad that feels. But although in the beginning, it's extremely,

Catherine Gourdier: 00:36:40

extremely difficult to accept. I think like once once the shock

Catherine Gourdier: 00:36:48

and the devastation once once you've kind of moved on from

Catherine Gourdier: 00:36:51

your shock zone. I would say to try your best to choose to

Catherine Gourdier: 00:37:00

celebrate your loved ones that have it's their birthday. Oh,

Catherine Gourdier: 00:37:06

it's their birthday. And I'm crying because he's not here for

Catherine Gourdier: 00:37:09

the birthday. Try trying to celebrate by getting a cake.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:37:18

We're drinkers we're part Irish, you know, drink what they likes.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:37:22

For example, my dad on my dad's birthday and father's days, I

Catherine Gourdier: 00:37:27

have a beer. I'm not a real beer drinker. But I'm like, Hey, Dad,

Catherine Gourdier: 00:37:31

having a beer for you. I sing to them on the birthdays doesn't

Catherine Gourdier: 00:37:34

have to be birthdays. Or like I said, I made the collage, do

Catherine Gourdier: 00:37:40

things to celebrate them to celebrate their love. Cry. They

Catherine Gourdier: 00:37:45

don't want us to be crying and sad for the rest of our lives.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:37:49

Yeah, I would say try try to find the strength to be thankful

Catherine Gourdier: 00:37:53

for the time that you had with them. And, and, and honor them.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:38:01

And still keep talking because they can hear you.

Unknown: 00:38:05

Yeah. Lovely. You don't have to go to a medium to have a

Unknown: 00:38:11

conversation. You can just

Anita Adams: 00:38:13

step outside or I don't know, while you're making

Anita Adams: 00:38:16

dinner or whatever. Have your conversation. Right. Beautiful.

Anita Adams: 00:38:20

Catherine, thank you so much. If I if people want to pick up a

Anita Adams: 00:38:24

copy of your book, where's where? How do they do that?

Catherine Gourdier: 00:38:29

Well, they can go to my website to

Catherine Gourdier: 00:38:32

Catherine gorier.com. In Canada, it's available at Chapters

Catherine Gourdier: 00:38:37

Indigo across Canada a lot. It was released last year and it

Catherine Gourdier: 00:38:43

was in most bookstores across Canada. Or it's at the behemoth

Catherine Gourdier: 00:38:49

you know, that is Amazon through him. Through I got my copy the

Catherine Gourdier: 00:38:55

factory Amazon, at Amazon in the UK in the US and Australia. I

Catherine Gourdier: 00:39:01

heard from somebody from Australia.

Anita Adams: 00:39:03

Great. Great. So it's getting some traction out

Anita Adams: 00:39:07

there. That's really fantastic.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:39:09

Right? It's worth bookstores when you can

Catherine Gourdier: 00:39:11

but otherwise,

Anita Adams: 00:39:13

good stuff. Alright, Catherine, thank you so

Anita Adams: 00:39:15

much. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your

Anita Adams: 00:39:19

story with us. And coming here on the joyful journey, podcast

Anita Adams: 00:39:24

and opening up your heart and inspiring but you are inspiring.

Anita Adams: 00:39:30

So thank you for all that you. You've contributed with the

Anita Adams: 00:39:34

writing of this book. No.

Catherine Gourdier: 00:39:37

Thank you and, and and your joyful note so

Catherine Gourdier: 00:39:40

so try to turn your grief journey into a joyful journey.

Anita Adams: 00:39:46

Thanks Catherine. And thank you joyful journey

Anita Adams: 00:39:48

hours for tuning in. We'll include links to how to connect

Anita Adams: 00:39:54

with Katherine in the show notes and her website and how to find

Anita Adams: 00:39:57

your book. And please If you know anybody that needs to hear

Anita Adams: 00:40:02

this podcast, share, share it with your friends and family

Anita Adams: 00:40:07

and, and leave us a review. It goes a long way in helping us to

Anita Adams: 00:40:12

reach more people. And on that note, have an amazing,

Unknown: 00:40:16

amazing day and we'll catch you next.

Anita Adams: 00:40:18

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Anita Adams: 00:40:21

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Anita Adams: 00:40:24

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Anita Adams: 00:40:30

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