The Parable Project: Building The Foundation (Ep 100)

Welcome and Introduction

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Jason: Thank you for listening and welcome to the podcast. I'm your host, Jason McConnell, and I brought my esteemed co host, Laura, back for another amazing series. Say hello, Laura.

Laura: Hello, Laura. I kind of

Jason: going to do that.

Laura: I kind of had to.

Jason: As for the listeners, I know you're all clapping right now because this is very exciting.

And for those of you who have been following my ministry mission for a while, you'll remember that Laura and I took on this massive challenge of diving into the book of Revelation. Nine months, 14 episodes, nearly 10 hours of content, and wow, what a journey. But we're not stopping there. We have to do this again.

But this time we're tackling something that's just as fascinating, the many parables of Jesus. Now, why did Jesus choose to teach with stories? What was he trying to reveal and to whom? You might be surprised to hear that the Bible actually gives a more direct answer. In this episode, we're kicking off the new series, exploring these incredible parables by explaining why Jesus used parables.

So grab a coffee, settle in and join us as we dive deep into this amazing journey of faith.

Getting Caught Up

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Jason: So welcome back, Laura.

Laura: Thanks, Jason. It's good to be back. I don't even remember.

Jason: Excellent. So it looks like we're doing this again.

Laura: We're off to a very good start.

Jason: Of course, hitting the ground running. Um, what have you been up to

Laura: Oh, teaching,

Jason: living?

Laura: more teaching, living, um, little bit of travel here and there, but mostly teaching and trying not to go crazy.

Jason: It's a noble effort, noble effort.

Format and Approach for the New Series

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Jason: I am so glad we're doing this again, but this time around, we're going to do things a little bit differently. And we've talked about this. With Revelation, there was a lot of very deep and intricate content. It required us to do a ton of homework. And as a result, those episodes were heavily scripted.

This time, however, we're going to go pick some high level topics and just kind of dive in with our own perspectives and what we've learned and just talk about these parables. So I think this is going to be pretty cool. What do you think, Laura?

Laura: Oh, I think this is going to be fantastic.

Jason: Right? I mean, if not, you can all blame it on me. This is totally my idea.

Laura: Hey, uh uh, you cannot take the sole blame for this, my friend.

Jason: If it's great, it was totally my idea.

Laura: you can't take sole credit either.

Jason: Fair enough. Uh, okay.

Personal Anecdotes and Reflections

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Jason: So I love to do my little preludes, my little lead ins, and I'm gonna invite you to enjoy me in this conversation. But, uh, I was thinking about this the other day. I love, love my church. We do so much good work, so much of God's work. I spend time volunteering wherever I can. Most of the time it's helping in various aspects in the children's ministry.

And a lot of that is just running the check in station, you know, getting the kid who was checked in, getting the. Labels and getting, you know, ready for the classrooms. Well, I love this position because it gives me the opportunity to spend a little time with all of these kids and to kind of notice it because everyone wants to be seen.

And I think children are no exception. In fact, I think they may be more than most want to be seen. I mean, Laura, how many times have you had a kid show, say like, look at my new cup, my new backpack, look at my shoes, check out my hair, look at what I made, my stuffed animal and so on. I mean,

Laura: you have no idea.

Jason: right.

Laura: I mean, you're with them, what, a couple of hours every Sunday? I have mine for like six hours, five days a week.

Jason: I don't know how you do it.

Laura: Me neither.

Jason: It's fair enough.

Laura: I mean, I've even had, uh, one of my friends kind of do video chats and they all want his attention.

Jason: Oh yeah, absolutely.

Laura: all want to be heard. They all want a shot. It's like, no, slow down.

Jason: I know. Right. They all just want, they want to be seen and everybody wants that, but children are just really, really hungry for that. But it gives me an opportunity when I'm checking them in to make it a point of noticing them. I, I get to. Let them know. I see them notice maybe a new hairstyle or a new dress, or, you know, maybe he's wearing a tie or new shoes or new glasses, or maybe they have a Minecraft or Superman shirt on.

And we can, you know, kind of bond at how geeky we are. Uh, and maybe I'm wearing my Superman socks. I don't know. It's a thing. But

Laura: Okay. It's a thing. Absolutely.

Jason: how great they look, how happy I'm to see them and just, you know, just be like, Hey, I'm so glad to see my friend and it doesn't really stop there. I get to know the families, connect with the parents, you know, find out there's common interests.

, you know, I wrote down John: 13:34

I give you love one another as I have loved you. So you must love one another by this. Everyone will know that you are my disciple, right? That's so important.

Laura: Absolutely. I mean, they're not going to know that we are followers of Jesus, that we are his disciples, unless we show that love.

Jason: Yeah, you can say it all day long, but until you show it, people don't believe you.

Laura: Actions speak louder than words.

Jason: Absolutely. So as you're out there. Just a reminder, show others that we are his disciples. Get out there, love your neighbors, love each other, love your enemies. Forget those who persecute you. Show the world that you are a disciple of Christ through your words, as well as actions. I call it gospel in action.

So anyways, that's my little lead in and, uh, ready to move on, I guess.

Laura: Sure.

Jason: So that was abrupt. I'm sure a lot of people out there are curious about these parables.

Understanding Parables: Definitions and Examples

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Jason: So let's just start doing that.

Laura: Alrighty then.

Jason: Would you be surprised to know that even the disciples had this question? And Jesus actually answered it, right? Yeah, I mean, you know what I'm talking about, right, Laura?

Laura: Um, Would that be the question on why do you talk in parables,

Jason: Yes, it's exactly the question. But, but I

Laura: Matthew: 13:10

Jason: I think, I think you're right. I have that written somewhere. I don't have it in front of me. But yes, I think you're right. Um, but what is a parable? Like, what, let's start there. What do you think, Laura? What's, what's a parable? How do we

Laura: Well, um, in, I mean, the easy answer is it is a. Uh, earthly story with a heavenly viewpoint. Uh, but I did some research because I'm, I mean, most people aren't just going to take that pat answer. It is a short story that does teach a moral or religious lesson, and it is different from a fable. Actually, I just got done teaching my students about fables.

Um, and fables do the same thing. They teach a moral or religious lesson, but fables use animal characters, whereas parables use human characters.

Jason: That's a fun little distinction. And I love that earthly story with heavenly roots. Didn't find that that's amazing.

Laura: Yeah.

Jason: Yeah, the definition I got was a story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson So it's it's same thing. It's just condensed, but I did you know me. I love my linguistical Biblical study,

Laura: Oh, absolutely.

Jason: of course, I had to dig into the word parable which comes from the Greek parabolē, which is derived from para meaning alongside and bolē meaning to throw something.

So

Laura: Exactly.

Jason: It gives a fun little visual,

Laura: well, I mean, we do study those, um, figurative language type things in school comparisons, analogies, similes, metaphors, and it all kind of goes together.

Jason: your teacher showing,

Laura: Yes, I know.

Jason: but wait, I, I thought a good way. Cause it's basically placing one thing aside another, it's kind of a context of it. But I think another word, and you'll love this. Another word is juxtaposition.

Laura: Oh, yes. You and your $10 words.

Jason: I love those. But in this case, Jesus is using stories that were thrown alongside or juxtaposed to a truth in order to illustrate that truth. That's where I got, ended up with that line of thinking.

Laura: And it does kind of remind me of A series my church does every year, they do an at the movies series where they take popular films and they pull out biblical truths, even if the Movies themselves weren't Christian movies like the ones we just did back in November. I know they did one on Gran Turismo, The Blind, Walk the Line, The Boys in the Boat, and Hacksaw Ridge.

So they were all true to true stories that were adapted to film, and then they just pulled the Bible truths out of those.

Jason: Nice. I just recently, you mentioned something that spawned a memory. I just recently finished watching the whole Duck Dynasty series. I've never watched it before. It's amazing. But then I went and watched the movie, The Blind, which, so I've all, that's all new to me. And that was, that was a tough movie to watch.

I was amazing though.

Laura: even the clips we saw in the sermon, and unfortunately, they can't put it online because of copyright issues. But Even the clips in the sermon were hard to watch and they didn't even show half, I mean, very, very short clips, but holy moly.

Jason: Yeah. Once you watch that though, you understand why Miss Kay gets whatever she wants.

Laura: Oh, of course.

Jason: That sounds amazing. Like watching a movie and then pulling out the biblical truth in it, whether it's a meant to be a religious movie or faith movie or not, that's, that sounds challenging, actually.

Laura: yeah. I mean, it, it actually did work out very well. They've done a great job with it. One of the favorites they did, they did Godzilla one year.

Jason: Really?

Laura: did, they did Avengers Endgame. Um, Toy Story 4. I mean, they've, they've done so many, but again, copyright issues, can't put them online.

Jason: Yeah.

Laura: Um, I actually, several years ago, had a conversation with a friend about biblical truths in Disney movies.

Jason: That sounds interesting.

Laura: Well, Frozen, the first one I thought of was Frozen. Elsa's whole problem was she was afraid

Jason: Yeah.

Laura: her parents were afraid of her. They showed fear, but in First John four something. Um, I will find that as I'm talking. It says perfect love casts out fear. So if her parents had like accepted her and shown her love, Then she would have been able to control her power sooner, which is why Ana's love for Elsa was what solved the whole thing of the movie, the whole problem of the movie.

Jason: You've just blown my mind.

Laura: Is that a

Jason: seriously. Yeah. No, that's good. So anyhow, veering back on topic, the next question I have written that, what was that?

Laura: your listeners know very well how many scrabbit trails we go down,

Jason: Oh, yeah, no,

Laura: and these aren't even scripted rabbit trails, so, or scrabbit trails, so have fun.

Jason: yeah, no, this is going to be, this is going to be interesting.

Why Jesus Used Parables

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that, and here it is, Matthew: 13:10

Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. This is why I speak to them in parables. They, though seeing, they do not see, though hearing, they do not hear or understand. And it kind of goes on to explain that this is a fulfillment of Isaiah 6 verses, I think 9 through 10, somewhere

Laura: Yes, yes, I did come up with that as well. Um, one of the websites I looked at, he, it said Jesus used parables for two reasons, to reveal the truth to those who wanted to know it. And to conceal the truth from those who were indifferent. And that kind of leads me back to some of the verses in Revelation. He who has ears, let him hear.

Jason: That is so true. I didn't even make that connection.

Laura: So, A little bit of background to that and the website kind of broke it down for me. So if you go back to Matthew 12 verses 22 through 32, the Pharisees are publicly rejecting Jesus. They are blaspheming the Holy Spirit, uh, 22 through 32. Hang on. So this was the whole story about Jesus and the Prince of Demons.

I'm not going to read it all because that is a very long passage. But basically the Pharisees heard about the miracle of Jesus. Jesus casting the demons out of the man and healing him. And they were saying, no wonder he can cast out demons. He gets his power from Satan, the prince of demons. And of course, Jesus had to throw elbows on that one.

Jason: Yes.

Laura: To use your phrase, Jason.

Jason: Love it.

Laura: Any kingdom divided by civil war is doomed. A town or family splintered by feuding will fall apart. And if Satan is casting out Satan, he is divided and fighting against himself. His own kingdom will not survive, and if I am empowered by Satan, what about your own exorcist?

Jason: Oh, wow. Yeah. I forgot about that part. That was, yeah. He did throw up as there.

Laura: Oh, and now, um, but, so, they, those Pharisees were fulfilling that prophecy in Isaiah 6:9-10, because it goes, it talks about hard hearted and spiritually blind people. Um, for the hearts of these people are hardened and their ears cannot hear, and they have closed their eyes so their eyes cannot see, and their ears cannot hear, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and let me heal them.

So he's basically saying that the Pharisees are fulfilling this prophecy here in Matthew 13. And that's why they didn't understand the parables. Because Jesus knew that the Pharisees would just dismiss the stories as irrelevant nonsense. And Jesus would then go on to explain the parables to the disciples in private.

Jason: Right. And that, what surprised me and, and what's funny is that intellectually I knew this fact, but it never dawned on me that it was significant, but it was, Jesus didn't start out using parables in the early parts of his ministry. He didn't, he, but he just suddenly started doing it pretty exclusively.

And it was after that Matthew 13 kind of era.

Laura: Yes,

Jason: of how the Pharisees rejected the Messiah and they blasphemed the Holy Spirit. And that's when he, you know, he, prophecy was fulfilled and he began. To, to speak in parables,

Laura: absolutely, because he was speaking plainly. And they were rejecting him, they were plotting to kill him. So, he's thinking, alright, well, I'm just gonna dial it back a little bit, use parables. I mean, he's like, they're gonna kill me anyway, but, you know, let's

Jason: let's go down swinging.

Laura: He's like, let's just delay what they're doing because I need to get these stories out to the people who actually want to understand it

Jason: Yeah. He was able to, to minister without fear of being caught or persecuted at that point. It was, it was everything, everything happened on God's timeline and people, I don't know if people really understand that, that the, the persecution, the crucifixion, everything was. Precisely when it was supposed to happen and not a second sooner

Laura: or later.

Jason: or later.

And that's why the Roman soldiers couldn't, you know, at one point they couldn't catch them.

Laura: Yeah, he just disappeared right in front of them. I mean, and it kind of makes me think that God is Gandalf or. A wizard, because a wizard is never late, nor is he early.

Jason: Well, I mean, Lord of the Rings is

Laura: Yeah,

Jason: so I suppose that's okay.

Laura: That is a very good way to put it. I like that.

Jason: The way I understand that Isaiah 6 prophecy is that God was looking for a volunteer, which seems odd. It seemed odd to me at first. Why would God ask for a volunteer? But he, he wanted a willing servant who would surrender to him. And Isaiah volunteered in the verses that you, that you read. He basically commissioned Isaiah to go warn the people of Judah about their ruin.

And God knew that they were, you know, they would hear Isaiah, but they wouldn't heed his warnings.

Laura: Absolutely.

Jason: you know, he knew the people of Judah had gone too far. He wanted Isaiah to spread the message anyway, knowing that nobody was going to pay attention.

Laura: Right.

Jason: And that's kind of where the Pharisees fall in is that the people of Israel are doing it again to the Messiah.

They're received the news of Jesus with the same blindness, deafness, and closed hearts that Isaiah received. And by rejecting Jesus, the unbelievers couldn't receive the mysteries of the kingdom. That's kind of how I interpreted all that.

Laura: Exactly.

Types of Parables

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Laura: But I do want to backtrack a little bit to what is a parable, because in the research I was doing, I came up with three different types of parables.

Jason: Ooh, all

Laura: Which, to me, was very interesting because I never thought about it that way, and there's a very good chance I'm butchering the pronunciation, but, uh, the first one was called a similitude, which was told in the present tense.

And what that of course, very short and it narrated a typical and recurrent event from real life experiences. Kinda like the, um, woman with the lost coin coin or the shepherd with the lost sheep. Which of you wouldn't do go get the sheep? What woman wouldn't search her whole house for the coin? So it's in the present tense right now.

Um, one of the other ones was called. Um, which is where they all come from as parable and a parable was actually past tense and told in a one time true to life but fictitious event. So I would teach that to my students as realistic fiction could happen, could have happened. But it didn't.

Jason: Well, that'd be like the good Samaritan.

Laura: like the Good Samaritan, uh, it would start off with something like a certain rich man or in a certain city or something to that effect.

Jason: Makes sense.

Laura: similitudes and parables are comparisons between two very different things. Actually, the Good Samaritan wouldn't fall under parable because it's an example story, or an exemplary story. So it's an example, not a comparison, and it illustrates a general principle. Like kindness and generosity and things like that.

Jason: similitudes and parables and exemplaries. Oh my.

Laura: Oh, I really, I really want to make a wicked reference right now. But

Jason: I mean, it's popular. Go for it.

Laura: Oh, you beat me to it! I was going to say something like no one mourns the wicked or something like that.

Jason: Right.

Laura: Sorry, if you guys remember from Revelation, I'm very much a musical fan, as is Jason, so yeah, we'll go

Jason: Speaking of which complete segue

Laura: Elphaba or Glenda?

Jason: Yes,

Laura: Both.

Jason: because in March, uh, the kiddo and I are going to see Wicked on Broadway.

Laura: I'm so jealous.

Jason: That's why we held off watching the movie. We're actually going to wait, I think

Laura: The movie is fantastic.

Jason: That's what I've heard.

Laura: The stage show is fantastic. It's all fantastic.

Jason: It is. It's all fantastic. Anyhow, sorry.

Laura: Anyway,

Jason: Grab it.

Laura: yes, that's our catchphrase. Scrub it!

Jason: Is that right? So bringing us back full circle, I think one of the more important aspects of reading parables is to avoid treating them like allegories. 'cause that was something that I read allegories, or stories that in, that are interpreted to reveal some hidden meaning like a, a political meaning or a moral or lesson.

Um, and allegories have to be interpreted. Whereas parables have one basic central meaning and they don't need to be torn apart to be understood. It's a, it's a spiritual moral lesson.

Laura: Right,

Jason: That was one thing that I, one nuance that I found

Laura: but that's not to say that parables can't have more than one meaning, depending on the context.

Jason: fair enough.

Interpreting Parables

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Jason: Um, so I was thinking, how do we interpret them though? Like, how do we look at a parable? And try to figure it out, you know, without commentary is that context with just the parable itself? And what I came up with through research and whatnot is that as we sift through the parable, we have to identify what's relevant and irrelevant in the details.

Some details, parts of it are essential to constructing the central theme or themes, if you will. Um, but there's a lot of details that really aren't that important. I wonder if that's what confuses the people that don't believe of those, those other details that kind of surround the main point.

Laura: Right. Um, which the way the website I found said it, it said, distinguish between the meat and the ornamental language. So the example they gave was the parable of the seed. Where'd that go? Um, with the four types of soil. And the thing is, it didn't matter how many types of soil there actually were. It was, uh, that extra, that language was in there designed to be, make things more realistic, but there could be several different, or there could be combinations of, I mean, there could be weeds and rocks in one place.

Yeah, so, I'm trying to, I am on, sorry, I'm trying to find the verse that they referenced. Uh, you had mentioned something about context and in Luke chapter 18 verse 9, it says, uh, they go in to talk about the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector and verse 9 says, then Jesus told this story to some who had great confidence in their own righteousness and scorned everyone else.

So that kind of sets the context, who was Jesus talking to? So it, I mean, the context does matter. So we, I mean, we could read that parable by itself, which we'll get into another day. Um, and we can pick it apart then. But if we don't know who Jesus was talking to, then the parable itself won't make much sense,

Jason: Okay. That makes sense to me. Yeah,

Laura: so

Jason: to me.

Laura: I'm glad,

Jason: One of the other, um, one of the other interesting things that I found was that it's, you know, some of the mashing together different sites and research and whatnot, but it's considering, consider the cultural norms and mores of the original audience. As you're going through the text as well, because as you said, you know, the original who, who was the audience, but not only who they were, but what's normal for them, like the, the Good Samaritan, for example.

You know, the one stuck in my head is that the, the context, you know, the, the idea of the, you know, a, a leave height leaving the injured man. Well, contextually, it makes sense because, I mean, he didn't want to risk becoming unclean. He, you know, he is a Levite priest and, and he had important work to do. So he moved on and, uh, you know, without that context.

That Levi leaving the scene doesn't have as much of an impact, right?

Laura: right? And it goes to show that you can follow the letter of the law, but not the spirit. So, by law, he would have been considered unclean, but was he showing kindness and compassion to somebody who was hurting? Or was he more concerned with his own problems, with his own self?

Jason: Absolutely. So another, another example I found was, was social considerations. Um, you know, going back to that good Samaritan, it seems to be stuck in my head, understanding the social

Laura: It works.

Jason: in reading that parable helps to understand why it was such a powerful, why, why is it so important that a Samaritan was the one that was the good guy, right?

Why was that such an astounding story for? Um, Jewish people because of how they looked at Samaritans, right?

Laura: Exactly. I mean, Samaritans were the outcasts. They were the, um, they were the ones that everybody looked down upon. I mean, it was better to be a tax collector than a Samaritan, if I recall correctly.

Jason: I do like how the Bible singles out sinners and tax collectors. I mean, it's pretty bad when you have your own category.

Laura: Exactly. Yeah, that is pretty bad. But it's like, but it also goes to show that just because somebody's outcast doesn't mean they have to treat the other people with just as much contempt as they are treated with.

Jason: I think, I think this is going to be pretty awesome going through these parables. I've always wanted to kind of really focus in and deep dive into them.

Laura: You know, there's like 35 plus, right?

Jason: I know we can, we can pick and choose or combine. We'll figure it out.

Laura: Yeah, it'll happen. Chances are, we're going to reference several of them. in relation to whatever one we pick, so whatever.

Jason: Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. I'm sure there, there are themes, thematic ways we can address it too, but

Laura: That's

Jason: All right. So, all right.

Conclusion and Milestone Celebration

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Jason: Well, uh, I think that's good for our intro episode. I am super excited to be doing this with my good friend, Laura again, because she brings so much into the conversation augments. A lot of what I say with her own research, it's really fun.

So I don't know which parables we'll start with or how we're going to put it together. I'll announce more about that as we discuss it and figure it out and I'll, I'll post updates on, on Facebook and Twitter. So go there and follow me and whatever.

Laura: Hey Jason, didn't you say, didn't you say that this particular episode is a milestone episode for my ministry mission?

Jason: I'm so glad you brought that up. I should have said that in the intro, but yes, this is the hundredth episode of my ministry mission. And

Laura: Yay!

Jason: this a little over two years ago, I never thought I would reach a hundred, to be honest, I wasn't sure where it was going to go with that. But yes, thank you for reminding me.

That is somewhere in my notes that I seem to have skipped over, but, um, but yeah, that's a hundredth episode. Can you believe it? I'm doing this a hundred.

Laura: Well, I mean, we did spend about a tenth of that, a little more than a tenth of that time on Revelation.

Jason: That's fair. It is fair.

Laura: Hey! We tithed Revelation.

Jason: We did! Oh my gosh, that's so great. We typed Revelation. Oh, please don't go anywhere, listeners. But anyways, yeah, we're gonna jump into this. We're gonna have a lot of fun. Um, it's like I said, it's going to be like, this is going to be unscripted. We're going to have some talking points and I'm sure we'll

Laura: Probably a lot of laughs.

Jason: a lot of laughs, some scrabbit trails and variations and, and, uh, most likely, uh, geek and Broadway related, uh, puns and, and

Laura: Oh, yes.

Jason: Yeah. So until next time, keep loving your neighbors, dive into God's word daily. May the Lord bless you and keep you and fill you with his peace, take care and God bless, and we'll see you in the next episode.

Laura: Bye.

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