She was told everything was fine.

But something didn’t feel right—and she couldn’t ignore it.

In this episode, Gina Lamanna shares what happened when she chose to trust herself and keep pushing for answers, even when she was being reassured that everything was okay.

What followed wasn’t just a turning point in her health—it was a complete shift in how she sees her body, her relationships, and her life.

This is a conversation about intuition, persistence, and what it really means to stop overriding yourself.

There are moments in life where something feels off… and you can’t explain why.

Gina Lamanna had those moments.

She was reassured. Cleared. Told she was fine.

But she didn’t believe it.

In this episode of The Iconic Midlife, we talk about what happens when you trust yourself enough to keep asking questions—even when there’s no obvious reason to.

Because this isn’t a story about not being heard.

It’s about not settling for easy answers.

At the same time, Gina was navigating the end of her marriage—while somehow maintaining a close relationship with her ex. It’s an honest, nuanced look at what it means to let a relationship evolve instead of collapse… and how that kind of emotional clarity doesn’t come easily.

We also get into identity—how it shifts when your body, your circumstances, and your life don’t look the way they once did… and how you rebuild from there.

This episode is about:

• Trusting your instincts—even when everything looks “fine”
• Knowing when to keep pushing for answers
• Going through a divorce and redefining that relationship
• Reclaiming your sense of self and femininity
• Becoming more selective about what—and who—you allow into your life
• Letting go of who you were… and stepping into who you are now

If you’ve ever had a moment where something didn’t sit right—even when you were told not to worry—this conversation will stay with you.

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The first time you saw your body, when it looked different, what was that?

Getting dressed was part of my healing.

Like, I really looked forward to getting dressed.

On the days that I didn't feel great, I would put on a pretty lip tint, right.

Or put on some pretty jewelry, because from here down just didn't feel right no matter what I put on.

You're healing, but you're also putting yourself back out there.

My first round of dating was like, I'm just going to be up front and tell these gentlemen right away.

Then the next round, I was like, okay, I'm going to tell these men on my watch, on my time, when I feel ready and comfortable.

When you are faced with cancer, all you're doing is trying to survive.

I don't think I really, truly started to heal until, like, two years, three years after I removed my implants and started, like, therapy and started taking true, like, care of my body and seeing what it was now capable of.

It's so empowering to know your body.

Today's guest is the kind of woman who forces you to rethink what it means to trust yourself.

Because what happens when you're told you're fine, but you know you're not?

What happens when your life is already shifting, your marriage, your identity, and then everything changes again.

Gina is the founder of the Fondl Project, a platform that's redefining how women think about their bodies, their choices, and their power.

But her story goes far beyond that.

This is a conversation about intuition, about being dismissed and deciding not to accept it, about rebuilding not just your body, but your sense of self.

And it's also about something we don't talk about enough, how a relationship can end and still evolve into something meaningful.

If you've ever questioned yourself, if you've ever been told to wait, to calm down, to not make a big deal out of something that didn't feel right.

This episode is going to stay with you.

So follow the show wherever you get your podcasts, and let's get into it.

I'm thrilled to welcome you back to the iconic Midlife Gina.

Thank you so much.

Excited to be here.

Thanks for having me.

Yes, absolutely.

I kind of want to take it back a little bit to a time about a decade ago.

God has it.

Yeah, about a decade ago, when you went through, like, a very major health turning point in your life.

But it wasn't even just that.

It was like you were also going through a separation.

So let's walk back to.

So just about nine plus years.

Gosh.

Starting at the age of 30, I was put on a rotation of mammograms and ultrasounds every six months because my mother had breast cancer in her mid-60s.

So that put me at a higher risk category.

So starting at the age of 30, I was put into mammograms and ultrasounds every six months.

And ultrasounds were the additional because I had dense breasts.

So that was very, very important screening for me.

Same, same.

It scares me, you know, don't let.

It scare you, but a lot.

I'm glad that you are aware of this because there's many women that are not aware or know that they have dense bre.

So start at the age of 30, ultrasounds and mammograms every six months, and then fast forward to the age of 41.

Normal mammogram, normal ultrasound.

However, during those years in between all of my screenings, I was constantly fondling my breasts, performing myself exams.

During that time between a normal ultrasound and a normal mammogram, I felt something.

I felt a lump on my right side, and I brought it to my doctor's attention, went to go see her again.

She decided to give me another ultrasound on site was an agreement that she felt it.

But when she did an ultrasound, there was nothing alarming.

And she had shared with me to come back in six months.

And at that time, I was newly separated, just turned 41, two little girls.

And I was like, hey, look, you know, something's telling me to pursue this a little further.

What would be an extra added layer of reassurance.

And she had shared with me that in order for me to get or have some further screening would be a breast samurai, but my insurance wouldn't cover it, so it had to come out of my own pocket.

And I was like, that's fine, Let me do this.

Because women, as you know, we are so intuitive.

And something in my gut, Roxy was just saying, something's not right.

Go the neck do, you know, do the extra step and just follow through with this.

It's probably nothing.

Just.

Just do this.

So I went in for my breast mri, and unfortunately, at the time, they found suspicious findings which led me.

Led me to another breast MRI with a biopsy.

I remember this so clearly.

My father was visiting New Jersey, and we were in the car and my doctor called to share, like, there are.

There's, you know, suspicious findings and we need to do some.

Some more tests.

And I almost literally went off the road.

I was like, oh, wow, this is.

This isn't Good.

So fast forward to going through two biopsies or and whatnot.

Got the first report back from ucla.

They told me it was benign, which I, you know, I did the happy dance.

However, very big believer in not only being my own advocate, but getting a second and third opinion.

So my ex husband and I worked together and we pursued a second and third opinion at MD Anderson and Sloan Ketter in New York.

So that, remember, that was around like Thanksgiving.

So fast forward to New Year's Eve.

And in between Thanksgiving and New Year's Eve, I told my doctors when we get the results back to please call Stephen, my ex husband, because I did not want to do a rinse and repeat, almost going off the road or being, you know, I wanted to make sure that I was alone in a safe space and that I wasn't around my daughters just in case the news was not in my favor.

So he called me on New Year's Eve when I was in Stouh, Vermont with my new partner at the time and gave me the news that it was indeed invasive ductal carcinoma.

Because my doctor called him, say, okay, yes, unfortunately, it is.

So that kind of.

That's where my whole journey started.

Fast forward to January.

I had a lumpectomy at Sloan because I was there in January, dealt with it there because they were one of the first to come back to.

To confirm that it was invasive ductal carcinoma.

And then I waited for those results, and then I was given.

I had two options.

I had with the radical double mastectomy with radiation, or just do radiation and tamoxifen for.

I think I can't.

I think it was five to 10 years.

And I declined radiation and I declined tamoxifen, and I chose the double mastectomy route.

But unfortunately, the breast implants didn't work for me.

So within nine months.

Yeah, I think within nine months I had them removed and went with a deep flap surgery.

So in 13 months, I had six surgeries.

You know, it's like you really have this thing inside you that guides you.

So where, like, where did that come from?

Because I know a lot of women in your shoes, if they're getting, you know, it's benign, you're fine.

You know, they're hearing that repetitively.

They would override if they had maybe a gut feeling or an intuition feeling.

But you didn't.

So what was the difference?

You know, I think.

I think it was at the Time in my life that, like, I just pulled the plug on my marriage and I was becoming even more in tune with my body because, look, truth be told, full transparency, I was not happily happy in my marriage.

Even though we remain very close friends and co parent two daughters beautifully.

I just was not happy and I kind of lost myself.

And when you have kids, as you know, we tend to put our children first, our partners first, everything first before us.

And I think while I was going through that very stressful time and transition my life, I started leaning into who I was and what brought me joy and was paying more attention to my body.

You're sort of going on these two paths.

You know, you've got everything going on with your, with your health, and then you've got your separation from your marriage, you know, so it's like you're sort of dealing with both of these things at the same time.

So was there ever a moment where you just said, okay, this is like too much.

I'm like overwhelmed.

I can't do this.

Or was it just always forward motion for you?

For me, going back to the fight or flight mode.

I was in this, the serious fight or flight mode, when I had my lump back to me in January at Sloan Kettering.

My.

My father, who was my best friend, was by my side the whole time.

And.

And then, unfortunately, about two weeks later, he felt extremely, extremely ill.

Contracted legionnaires and had like an array of things.

Pneumonia, sepsis, and legionnaires, like the perfect storm.

And we believe it was from him sitting in like the waiting room at Sloan Kettering.

It was kind of crazy.

Anyways, make a long story short, he fell ill very quickly.

I just landed in LA and I got a call from my brother saying, like, he's got.

You need to come back.

He has a 5% chance of survival.

So I wasn't even fully healed yet from my lumpectomy.

So again, it was one of those things like, okay, so I was so busy and consumed taking care of my father, flying back and forth because he was an induced coma for like four months.

And then I had these two little girls that I was trying to continue with some normalcy that I didn't really, I really, I didn't really lean into what I was actually going through.

Does that make sense?

You know, I was just.

Again, my daughters hate it when I say this.

I was powering through it because I had to show up every day for my kids and I had to show up for my family.

And my dad was in a deuced coma and I had to, like.

And I was in a long distance relationship, so just trying to navigate and manage all these things and also try and, you know, be there for my ex husband who was, you know, emotionally and mentally, like, dealing with his ex wife and mother of his kids.

She had cancer and going through all these things.

So I was just in a fight or flight mode for a very, very long time.

Do you think that that was like, not.

I mean, not your dad being sick, like, you know, excluding that, but the other people in your life?

I mean, do you think that that was a blessing or a curse to have all these other things sort of going on while you're dealing with this?

I think it was a blessing.

And I actually do think it was somewhat of a blessing of my father being sick because it was a big distraction for me.

But the beautiful ending to all of that is he had a 5% chance of survival.

And he was in his early 80s at the time, and he looked like he was in his 50s.

And he was.

The joke was that he was going to outlive all of us and he was so healthy, but he fought for his life and he came out of it.

It was like unbelievable.

Like, everyone thought he was not going to make it, and he came out on the other side.

And that, to me, helped me go through the.

Like, when he came out on the other side months later, I was like, if my father can do this and get through what he went through, battling sepsis and dialysis and everyone telling us, like we were planning his funeral, that he was gonna die, I can get through this.

I can get through this.

So I think that was.

Yes, it was a.

It was a distraction.

Although stressful, the back and forth and dealing with him, it was.

It.

It distracted me from what I was really going through.

But then once he was on the other side, then I kind of started like, okay, I need to kind of focus on me and what that looks like and start grieving, like, losing my breasts and the changes in my body and what I'm.

What I'm about to go through.

And then fast forward to worrying about my daughters.

You know what?

Cause they're now.

Their risk is extremely high because their grandmother had it and now their mother had it.

So now I'm like, you know, all the layers.

Because you're going through the separation as well with Steven.

Were you leaning on him sort of.

This whole time, did things like the problems and the issues you guys were dealing with, did they kind of fall away and like, this bigger thing kind of takes over or how did that sort of play out?

When we separated, it was pretty amicable, even though I was going starting a new relationship bicoastal from LA to New York, pretty amicable and whatnot.

But when I started going through it, he was there for me.

Oh, speak of the devil, here's Steve.

Is he there?

Does he want to pop in and say hi?

Yeah, because we're talking about you and how amazingly supportive you were during my breast cancer journey.

Oh, yes.

Hello.

Hey, Stephen.

How are you?

We're actually just talking about you, so.

Your ears are burning.

I was waiting outside till I heard my name.

She was actually just talking about leaning on you during her whole cancer journey.

And, you know, like, how you guys navigated that while also going through what you guys were going through.

Add for a few minutes, for a minute before you escape with a dog.

Jumping all over me.

Add to how awesome I am.

He was.

He was my rock and to.

I leaned on him quite a bit, and he was there for me for.

Oh, my goodness, like, he.

Again.

He was the one that gave me the unfortunate news.

He had to call me when I was with my new partner in Stovermont on New Year's to deliver the news, but he was there for every doctor's appointment.

He was also the one to really encourage a second third opinion.

He's always been that guy.

And he just.

I mean, he helped me financially with the surgeries as well, and, you know, getting the opinions and meeting with various plastic surgeons.

He was amazing.

And.

And he continues to be a great support for me and to me, nine years later.

Yes, I will just say, because I know this is your podcast, this is the children's mother.

Do I need to say anything else?

Yeah, that's exactly it.

I mean, that's exactly it.

I feel like anything else pales in comparison to that comment.

So.

Full stop.

Yeah, full stop.

And so many people can't see through that, but you obviously can.

There seems to be still a thread between you guys.

So what was that thing?

Like, what would.

Why were you guys able to evolve so much better than a lot of other people in that way?

You know, I just said this recently to a friend we had at our wedding.

Each of us, some of our ex boyfriends and girlfriends were at our wedding.

So that might have been a sign of how things could go in the future, you know, as that's maybe just a function of our personalities.

I guess that laid the groundwork for that.

Well, you can't even hear the name of your spouse's ex boyfriend.

Or girlfriend without losing your cool.

So I think that helped.

And then you know, we're still the kids parents and they're still our children.

Right?

You have to kind of put the things aside and it's not even like I mean look, people get divorced and separate all the time and it's not like there wasn't any love there between us.

We did try, you know, to make it work and whatnot.

But we both I think got to a point in our marriage where it was like, okay, we have these two very impressionable young little girls that are recognizing that mommy and daddy aren't as loving or saying I love you.

And I was raised a different way.

My parents fought all the time and there was like there was no love and you know, exposed to a completely different, you know, growing up, whatever.

But I think we both recognize like we, there's great love there but we don't get along.

I mean we get along now but.

When you don't have to live together.

Right.

Like it's like we don't have to live together.

But like yes.

I mean look, he show, he continues to show up.

He's he, he's that guy though to, to a lot of the people in his life, to his family and his friends.

Like Steven Binder shows up for you.

If you're in his orbit, he's going to show up for you.

And again I'm his ex wife, I'm the mother of his daughters.

He continues to show up and yes, I proudly say very often he was my rock during whole like was there with me when I woke up for every surgery, you know, was holding my hand right there just, just there.

He was the first person when I opened my eyes besides my best friend like those and he was and the person I wanted there over my current partner at the time and he was thrilled about that which was oh wow.

Drama.

Much like how did that fly over?

You know I'm going to let you handle this.

I'm going to go take Dusty the water faucet that I came over and installed at 9 o' clock at night in the dark.

It's not leaking.

Thank you.

I just checked it.

I mean he's the all around guy.

Thank you Stephen.

Bye.

Thanks Steve.

Bye Dusty.

There was a little drama at the time I think you know.

There was, yeah.

I mean it was hard for him I think for my, for my boyfriend at the time.

But I'm again going back to.

He was the mother, I'm the mother of his kids.

So Steven's in my life Forever, regardless.

Who did he lean on during all of this?

Like, did he have somebody like a rock to lean on?

Steve?

No, no.

He just.

No, no.

He had to rely on himself, like, pretty much.

No, I didn't, I didn't know that was a thing till I was asked this question sort of recently and I'm like, oh, oh, that's, that's an option.

That would have been nice, right?

So you're kind of in fight and flight mode too.

Yeah, I'm still working on that for sure.

I think I've mentioned when we did our first, first go around is I.

The advice that I give to people that are going through something like this or with a cancer diagnosis, to be sure that you check in with their spouses, their partners or family members, because they're the ones going through it.

Well, on a different level or a different layer.

But I think it's important that they do those, those check ins, you know, and he did not have that.

He did not have that support, like.

And look, I mean, most men don't have a big community of men.

A lot of men kind of internalize and they, you know, they don't want to talk about it.

But I, I think I told you when my best friend was sitting in the waiting room with him, I think it was on my first surgery, it was like 15 hours.

It was crazy.

She hadn't seen him in a while since we separated.

She was like, how are you doing?

I haven't seen you since you guys separate.

But she's always been fond of him.

She's like, how are you doing?

He's like, I don't have anybody.

I'm just trying to like, take care of our daughters, you know, and you know, make sure that their mom is okay and stuff like that.

So he didn't really have a support system.

And you know, and I remember him saying to me a couple years ago, or I think like two years ago, like, I think he was having a moment.

He was like, I still can't believe what you went through.

I really wish that I went through that and you didn't.

So, you know, there's, as you can see, there's great love.

We co parent a dog, we co parent our daughters.

At the end of the day, we put all of our aside because we have daughters and we want to be these beautiful role models as parents, not just for our kids, but also for other friends that are going through us.

Like, let's just put your kids are priority.

And not only that, like, I think even if we didn't have kids.

I mean, going back to self love and self care, like it's so important.

Like just who wants that kind of drama and that kind of energy in your, in your life?

You know what I mean?

So I think it's a healthy thing, you know, like I'm still close with all of my exes with the.

Except with the exception of the man that was my bicoastal guy for four years in New York.

We don't talk anymore.

I have friends that also have been remain close with their exes.

And it's so individual and it's so personal.

Right.

It's like sometimes you can and sometimes you can't.

But that's really interesting that you can.

I think that's, that's great.

That kind of shows your emotional evolution, you know, I mean, that you can have those people back in your life, you know?

I have a partner now, Charlie.

We've been together almost six years.

And Steve has, is with somebody new.

She's lovely and she has a boy.

And they've been together two plus years.

And we've had a couple of family gatherings for holidays and we all, we get along and I think it's very important for his mental health, my mental health, Kate's, Charlie's, the kids, everybody, like I just think it's just.

And for everybody, like friends that we all can be together with.

No.

You know, so I think that's very important.

Time, I mean, it takes time.

And again, you have to be at a, you know, I don't know.

But yeah, it takes time.

And not everybody could just step into like being great friends with their, their ex wife or sometimes it's a journey.

Exactly.

It also depends on why.

Why you split up too, right?

We didn't split up because there was a need to see or affair or anything like that.

We recognize like, okay, we tried, we love each other, but we really just don't get along and we grew apart.

In some ways, you almost like saved the relationship before it went to a place where it could maybe not be repaired.

You know, it's like you all, you took the step to kind of cut it when you cut it.

And so then, you know, you kind of saved it.

In some ways you preserved it.

Yeah, exactly.

And like I said, like I remember my daughters when we were together, when I was with Steven, we were in the car, I was like headed to school with the kids and he called and when I hung up, my Ava, who was, I don't know, five, six at the time.

I don't know Said something like, you don't say I love you to daddy anymore.

And I noticed you don't hold his hand anymore.

And I was like, okay, this is it.

This is the time that we need to.

We need to do something.

Do you start, like, therapy and things like that?

We were doing therapy prior to that, and then.

And then, honestly, I. I just pulled the plug on therapy, too.

I'm like, this isn't.

This.

This isn't working, you know, and.

Yeah, but he's.

He's awesome.

He's amazing.

I mean, he.

He's.

He's great.

He's a.

He's a great man.

He's a very good friend, and he works very hard and he carries a lot of stress, but he still shows up and does things like, he'll show up.

Like, he just fix it.

A pipe in my yard that was leaking at 9 o' clock the other night.

Like, yeah.

I mean, people are telling us to have our own podcast or write a book.

Like, with what time do we have?

I would love it, but, you know, eventually add it to the list.

Yes, I know.

I mean, seriously, it actually is a great idea.

Like, you guys have sort of mastered, you know, remaining good friends, and a lot of people can't.

I wanted to ask you, too, going back to, like, the surgeries and, like, kind of all the things you went through with that, what did that feel like?

Like, the first time you saw your body, the.

You know, when it looked different, what was that?

Tell me about that.

My background is a personal stylist.

I've been fashioned for I was, gosh, 18 years old.

So part of my job as a personal stylist was helping women, you know, with their style changes in their bodies and make them feel empowered and sexy and beautiful at all times to.

To find their, you know, to find their best self.

Right?

Like, that part of my job, Roxy, like, to make you feel amazing.

And you are good at it, too, by the way.

You know, getting those calls and.

Or texts from clients saying, my husband just knows my ass.

And those white jeans.

Thank you so much.

Yes.

Boom.

Did my job anyway.

That was part of who I was, making women feel amazing.

So fast forward and going through my whole journey, when I had the implants, I had a really, really hard time, I believe.

Let's see.

I had the implants for just.

Just about.

Just a year.

I think I can count on my hand, my one hand, how many times I looked at myself in the mirror.

I didn't recognize myself.

I didn't like myself.

My whole.

My Confidence, self esteem was depleted, which happens with women going through various transitions life.

But going through a cancer journey and losing your breasts or maybe having radiation or losing your hair and going through chemo, your body changes so much.

So we are depleted of our confidence and self esteem.

So it definitely took me a long time to just kind of process that.

But I recognize going back to, I recognized in order for me to heal and love myself again, like I had to start like looking at my body and paying attention, see what works for me and really like leaning into this new body.

So that took some time, heavy therapy obviously.

And I slowly started, for a lack of a better word, came out of my shell and just started getting dressed again and started feeling like myself.

But and also recognize that getting dressed was part of my healing.

Like, I really looked forward to getting dressed.

On the days that I didn't feel great, I would put on a pretty lip tint, right.

Or put on some pretty jewelry.

Because from here down just didn't feel right no matter what I put on put on.

But doing these little micro, little things helped me, you know, definitely took some time for sure.

So during that time, as I was kind of going through all of those, my business suffered because I couldn't show up for my clients.

And I was very transparent with them.

Like, look, I, I, you know, I'm grateful for this opportunity and I want to help you, but like, I can't provide for you because I don't feel good.

Like this does not excite me right now, getting dressed or, you know, so that was definitely a whole, a whole nother layer that I had to kind of to do it.

Once you are declared cancer free or your treatment is done, you look at yourself and it's like looking at a totally different person, I would imagine in a lot of, a lot of ways.

And like, I think people just kind of, you know, forget about the patient in that way.

I say this often, and this is what is really behind my whole mission movement with the project is when you are faced with cancer, when you're in it, all you're doing is trying to survive.

Literally that is all we, we're just trying to survive.

But you don't really start to heal until after you're done.

All your treatments gonna take months.

Like emotionally, mentally, physically, you're on a healing journey for a, for the rest of your life, of course.

But like, you don't really start to heal.

I mean, for me, I don't think I really truly started to heal until like two years, three years after I Removed my implants and started like therapy and started like taking true like care of my body and seeing what it was now capable of.

And also dating again.

We talked about that briefly.

Like that was a whole, like, how was that?

Because you're, you're healing but you're also putting yourself back out there again to date.

So I'm going to say it, I'm going to drop it.

It was fucking brutal.

It really was.

Because as I mentioned to you, when I was first diagnosed, I had the support of my ex husband and I had a partner who lived in New York.

So I had the best of both worlds.

I had a boyfriend and I had an ex husband that were so supportive and loved me as a whole.

And I was like, okay.

I mean, this is a man that I've been with for four plus years.

He's seen it all.

He's seen, he knows, he's, he knows every scar.

He knows exactly what I've been through.

Was he supportive in that way, like of your body and loving you?

You know, he was, he, he was, he, he loved me even if I had a paper bag on my head.

He was very supportive and always complimented me and it was amazing and beautiful.

But there were times where he didn't give me the space or the, or what's the word?

The space to kind of process and go through all these things.

He was constantly just saying, you got this, you're amazing, you're a warrior, you're this.

Which is lovely to hear, but at the same time I need to be removed, taken down the pedestal a couple notches, like, because what I went through was heavy and it's, it's part of my life journey, you know, so, you know, it's okay for me to have weak moments, it's okay to have the highs and lows.

It's okay for me not to like my body right now.

Like, let me feel this.

Thank you for complimenting me, but please hear me that like I don't feel this way right now and I just need you to kind of like sit in it with me, if that makes sense.

Yeah, absolutely.

Then I found myself single and I kind of went through this whole like process, you know, I was like, oh, it's gotta get online dating and whatnot.

And you know, I had my, my first round of dating was like, I'm just gonna be up front and tell these gentlemen Right away, just to get it over with.

Roxy, I just wanted to get over with.

And a handful of them were cool, you know, Some are like, oh, I just thought you had, like, implants and no big deal.

Like, cool, you know, whatever.

One guy's like, I read about you.

I saw a story about you.

I knew that you had breast cancer.

My cool.

And then there was a handful of men were like, I'm sorry, what?

Like, are you sick?

Are you going to get sick again?

Are you going to die?

Like, what does that mean?

You know, there were some guys that didn't really have to say anything, but, like, we have these couple great dates, and then we plan the next one, and then, you know, I don't hear from them again, you know?

Look, I know that's common in dating.

Like, you.

You have a great date.

You know, I'm not saying that, you know, that's the only reason, but I could just tell that some of these guys were just no longer interested.

And I had one guy say to me, you're beautiful, you're successful.

You're everything that I'd want.

He's like, but this whole, like, you having breast cancer and you not knowing, and you're only, what, like, two years out?

He's like, I can't.

Good luck.

And I was like, cool.

Awesome.

So that hurt for sure.

That hurt.

Then the.

The next round, I was like, okay, I'm going to tell these men on.

On my.

On my watch, on my time, when I feel ready and comfortable.

And that's what I did, you know?

And most these little flings, Roxy, were just.

That's what they were flings.

Very casual.

And I don't know if I mentioned this in our.

When we chatted last week, but I'm gonna say it like, they're part of my healing.

For about six, seven months, I dated very, very young men.

Very young.

What was the reason behind that?

You know what?

They were swiping on me.

And I was.

Me.

The youngest I went was 28.

Okay, lady.

Yes.

I was 45, I think, or before.

And it.

You know what?

It made me feel good.

And they didn't care.

They didn't.

Roxy.

They didn't give a shit.

They were just.

They were just.

I think in all of an older woman, I had some fun, energy, whatever.

And really all it was was physical and sexual.

Right?

Like, wasn't like I was gonna, like, get serious with a 29 or a 30 year old.

Like, it was just.

It was a phase in my time.

And at first, I was kind of like, what am I doing?

And it's so funny because.

Do you remember the show younger?

Yes.

Handful of years ago, whenever that was my bestie and I would binge watch it and I remember saying to her like, who in their 40s would go out with a 28 year old?

That is like absurd.

This is crazy.

Like what the hell?

Fast forward to me.

I did it and I did it for like six, seven months and I had the time of my life.

Was the sex better?

No, really, sex was not better.

I will say this, their stamina was through the roof.

It was one of those things where we could, they wanted to do it three, four, five times a night, which I was not really used to.

So that was fun.

But it wasn't anything like they knew what they were doing.

If anything, they leaned to lean on to me.

Like, what do you, like what do you want?

But those guys I'm still friends with, so friendly with, one of them helped me buy a car seven years ago.

He's now, I think he just turned 40.

But when we were dating he was 34.

And there was another guy that we had an on and off for like for nine months or whatever.

And he was hot Brazilian guy.

And now we're friends and his, he, he, he goes to my, my daughter's school.

I helped him get in there.

Going back to like evolving and being friends with some of these partners, it's, it's okay and it's mature, right?

But, but yeah, that really helped me heal six, seven months of just having fun.

And by the way, I didn't have sex with every single one of these younger men.

Like there was a, you know, little makeout sessions here and there, but it made me feel good.

I needed that, that boost of confidence that this cancer, these scars and every, all these body changes do not define who I am.

Like, I'm still attractive, I'm still fun.

I have a lot to offer.

Like I still have a fun personality.

And it was, it was part of my healing journey.

It seems like it would prepare you for the next relationship as well.

It's almost like you needed to have that time of just being a little free and like doing what you wanted to do, you know?

I think so because I went from being, being misty for 12 plus years into a new relationship rather quickly.

Four years long distance.

So I didn't have a big gap being super single.

So I was about, I was single for about a year.

But during that year I was dating and I, you know, eventually I just kind of leaned in and I was like, fuck it if they don't.

They're not interested in me.

They're not worth it.

And I just owned it and started having fun.

And then pandemic, Pandemic happened.

And then did the whole online, like, mask wearing, beach dates.

And then I met Charlie, my current partner.

So you met him during the pandemic?

You met Charlie during the pandemic?

How.

Okay, so how did you do that?

Because everyone was like, locked down or isolating.

Like, how did.

How did that happen?

That was right when it was starting to lift a little bit.

But those six months when we were locked.

Was it mar.

What?

I don't know.

Six months, whatever.

We were locked down.

And I did a lot of FaceTime dates.

Stay safe.

And then if I felt like it was worth me stepping out.

This is vaccines.

All of the early pandemic.

Yeah.

And that was fun.

And then I was over it.

I was like, this is.

This is.

I'm done.

I can't do this anymore.

And then I. Charlie.

And I can't remember if he swiped on me or I swiped on him.

And it was funny because I was like, wow, he's really cute.

And he said to me, he was like, do you want to meet for a coffee?

And at that point, I was like, usually I would have these FaceTime calls for hours to see if there was a connection before I would go risk my life.

Because at the time, we didn't know.

At the time, we didn't know what was going on at the time or the whole pandemic.

And I finally was like, you know what?

I'm just going to say, yes, this guy and meet him right away.

We didn't even talk.

I'm like, sure, let's go.

Let's go have a drink or a coffee.

So 4.

It took me four months to tell him about my breast cancer.

And although we were intimate during that time, we were very, very casual.

But we started.

We started spending more time together and of potential being more serious.

And I told him.

I was sitting in our bedroom and I said, look, there's something I have to tell you.

And I told him, and he was amazing.

He's like, thank you so much.

He's like, I like you even more.

You know, he just thought again, like, I've heard before from other men.

Like, I just thought the scars were from a reduction or breast implants or whatever.

Like, he didn't even, didn't even like register.

And then I told him and he.

And then fast forward to the Fondo project.

He was the one that came up with the name.

He was my cinematographer.

He was a big, he was a very big part of the Fondl project campaign and supportive and supporter.

And still to this day, we're here.

We are like almost what, five and a half years in.

Yeah.

That's incredible.

Yeah, I love that you've, you know, moved the needle forward and you're really out there trying to help other women going through this.

So let tell everybody about the Fondl project because it's incredible.

By the way, you were on like the Drew Barrymore show with the Funnel project.

But clap.

Kudos to you, my friend.

Thank you.

It was a very small idea.

Again, going back to my healing journey of getting dressed and I met all these amazing women on a breast, you know, that were battling breast cancer.

And the common theme between all of us was losing our self esteem, losing our confidence and not feeling good in our body and also just processing everything and not feeling good about ourselves.

So I wanted to kind of create a more modern, elevated campaign to spotlight the importance of breast cancer and breast health, but also to really spotlight these incredible women that are on this journey.

You know, give other women on this journey hope, make them feel empowered and sexy.

So I, I collaborated with seven female fashion brands and again, it was just a small idea which ended up being a lot bigger than I didn't even, I couldn't even imagine.

We had this epic campaign at Melk Studios, the fashion beauty photographer.

Everybody donated their time.

Everybody.

Oh, it was all donation.

Everybody did.

Wow.

The producer, Milk Studios, Kate Powers, the stylist at the time that everyone donated their time.

Charlie, I mean, obviously Charlie was my dp, of course.

I mean, and then all the brands that came forward donated the wardrobe and the.

The mission was to launch June 1, which is cancer survivor Month.

I intentionally did not want to launch in October because Breast Cancer awareness month is October and it is saturated with campaigns.

Everything, everything pink.

So recognizing that I have two daughters with a very high risk cat or you know, high risk of getting breast cancer.

Women are being diagnosed under the age of 40.

The numbers are increasing.

So I really wanted to lean into a younger demographic, create a more elevated, modern, black and white editorial style campaign to kind of like, you know, move the needle per se.

So we spotlighted.

There was 10 of us and I like to share this fact because a lot of women don't realize this or know this, but 90% of women that are diagnosed with breast cancer, there's no genetic mutation, there's no family history.

So to put that more in a, paint a better picture, there was 10 of us in the campaign.

I was the only one with family history.

And six of the other women were under the age of 35 and the youngest girl being 24.

So again, and these women were all dismissed too young.

You don't have history.

So I'm going to reiterate and I'm going to say this again, ladies.

90% Of women that are diagnosed with breast cancer have no genetic mutation, no Broca gene, and no family history.

Okay?

That means only 10% of women that are diagnosed have the gene or family history.

And, and if caught early, you, if caught early, which is why early detection is so important.

You have a 99% chance of a five year survival rate, which is huge.

I caught my very early.

So I have a, I have a, I'm almost nine plus years out, which is amazing.

So again, it goes back to.

Early detection can save your life.

Beautiful campaign, amazing, epic, great launch party.

Fast forward to, you know, six months later had the amazing opportunity to be on the Drew Barrymore show.

But during between the time I launched and by the time I was on the Drew Barrymore show, I wasn't quite sure what I was doing because, you know, I was a, I was a stylist and I had a private studio.

I was an entrepreneur.

I had a business for a very successful business for 25 plus years.

And I was entertaining the idea of become a nonprofit because I, we had, we were gaining momentum.

But I was like, but what does that look like?

I don't even know anything.

I don't know anything about running a nonprofit.

Like, I'm a, I'm, I have a styling studio and I'm a stylist.

Like, and I'm a mom.

I have no idea.

Fast forward to Drew Barrymore.

She gave me $10,000.

So that really was our catalyst.

Like, I was like, okay, looks like we're gonna move forward with this.

Because I wasn't gonna turn that $10,000 back.

Well, it's a sign.

It's a sign you're on the right path.

I gotta do this.

I have to move forward.

So we officially have been a non profit now almost two years and we're and full transparency we're still trying to figure out where we want to put our funds.

And you know, we have various, like, healing workshops for breast cancer survivors, which has been amazing, but we want to.

I think what I really want to do is focus on helping women thrive post treatment, fill in that gap between treatment and healing.

Because as mentioned before, like, when we're in it, all we want to do is survive.

So I, I'm a tr.

I consider myself a true thriver nine plus years because I had access to all these amazing things, whether it would be wardrobe or healthy organic foods or movement or acupuncture.

Infrareds on all these things have helped me heal.

And there's many, many women that don't have that access to truly be able to heal because they're trying to take care of their kids or they don't have the financial, they don't have the financial means to get acupuncture or a beautiful wardrobe to help them feel good.

So we're hope, we're moving forward.

I think we're going to hope to create grants for women to help.

Oh, that's amazing.

Amazing.

It's amazing.

And I love also that you're very vocal about women doing breast self exams in between their appointments every month.

It's so important.

So how do women know if they're doing it right?

Or is it just first and foremost?

Yes.

Breast health is not once a year.

It's not your annual mammogram.

And there's a whole campaign that started a handful of years ago with this young girl that unfortunately, unfortunately died of breast cancer.

I think she was, she was diagnosed like 24, and she eventually passed away and she started field on the first.

So there's this whole campaign, like a way for you to remember is field on the first, which I think is amazing.

It's very, very important for me.

I've kicked off Fondle Fridays because I personally believe the more you do something as you know, becomes routine.

I'd like to encourage all women to perform self exams when they're putting on their skin care, their moisturizer, their sunscreen, when they're in the shower.

Do it when you're in carpool.

Do it when you're, when you're binge watching.

I mean, that's what I was doing.

If I, if I wish Stephen was here, he would tell you his fondest memory of me when we were married was me constantly feeling my boobs.

I'd always be like, okay, what's that?

What's that?

So you just, you just do it.

You know, and I think it's important in between all your screenings, do it because the more you feel them and become familiar, the quicker you'll be able to pick up any new changes.

And you can bring it to your doctor's attention.

And you can always invite your partner in for a little fun.

Right?

You can make it a fun sex game.

Exactly.

Two of the women that were in our campaign, one was a Tinder date and one was her boyfriend that found their, their lumps.

So, I mean, you can.

Because look, there are, I've met women through the years that are not comfortable with feeling their bodies, and that's.

Okay, well, have your partner.

And I also know that there's many women that choose to skip their mammograms or their ultrasounds or screenings or to feel their breasts because they're very afraid of what the result will be.

So I just really, really want to encourage, like, it's, it's so empowering to know your body, touch your breast, feel everything.

It's very important that you pay attention to your clavicle area too, and that you feel underneath your armpits, because many lumps are found underneath your armpits.

You know, again, I like, I mean, I have to continue doing my self exams even though I know I no longer have breast tissue.

I have a lot of scarring, so I have to make sure that I check all my scar, all my scar tissue and whatnot.

But we go through so many changes every month.

So for example, if you were to do it once a month, okay, you're supposed to, you're supposed to do, to do a proper self exam, you should do it from the first day of your period.

It's three to five days from the start of your period.

Okay.

And if you're in menopause, you can do it the first of each month.

But here's the thing.

You can do it during that time.

A week after your period, you may feel something.

And most lumps are not cancerous.

They're benign.

Okay.

You may feel something.

Okay, great.

Then a week later, you may do the same check and you're not going to feel it.

Awesome.

So you could have lumps and bumps and changes, you know, every couple weeks because of hormones.

That's why I feel it's so important.

Just, just do it as much as you possibly can or do it again like when you're putting on your sunscreen or every week when you're.

Or, you know, like this summer when you're putting on a bathing suit.

Find little moments throughout the Day, right?

Cop yourself a feel because again, it's about becoming familiar and getting to know your body.

And I cannot stress that enough.

What does this mean for you and HRTS now?

Is it something you're able to do?

Because we are in this beautiful place, perimenopause world.

I love this conversation.

This is perfect because I think I. I think I mentioned this to you.

I thought I was never going to be a candidate because of my breast cancer history and being estrogen positive.

But fast forward to last August.

I met with a doctor and she approved testosterone for me because I. I had no libido.

So I was like, cool.

And then fast forward a couple months later, I was.

I was able to get progesterone because my Progesterone was like 0.1 non existent.

And then my OB GYN back in January had suggested, since I still didn't really have a strong libido, she's like, look, I think that you should consider the estrogen patch because then everything we balance out.

She's like, I have many breast cancer patients that are on it, but it really is at your own risk.

And I was like, great.

I'm seeing my oncologist in a couple of weeks.

Let me see what she says.

And honestly, Roxy, I thought my oncologist was going to say no to everything.

I thought she was going to say, get off everything.

But she approved everything.

She approved the patch.

So now I'm on the full cocktail.

The patch, the compound cream for testosterone, and 100 milligrams of progesterone.

So I'm being very, very closely monitored.

But at the end of the day, you know, this quality of life is so much more important.

Yes.

Oh, my gosh, it absolutely is.

How.

How are you feeling on it?

Do you notice a big difference?

The difference that I have.

Have felt is more energy.

My.

Again, my.

My libido hasn't increased.

More energy, less water retention, no more headaches.

I wasn't suffering from night sweats or what do you call it, hot flashes.

I wasn't.

I wasn't on that.

On that realm yet.

But weight gain, I was doing everything.

I was like, why can I not drop, like 3 pounds?

And I was walking 10 to 12,000 steps doing my protein workout.

I was doing all these things like, what the hell is going on here?

But I carried, like, water retention.

And my mood swings were.

If you talk to Charlie, they were crazy erratic.

Yep, I know that feeling.

Yep.

Kids, Charlie and Steven, thankfully, have noticed a more stable mood, which is nice.

Brain fog was bad but now I'm sleeping great, Less water retention, lost a couple pounds.

And my energy is like a 35 year old.

My libido is not, but my energy is like a 35 year old.

Do you feel like yourself again?

I do.

I feel the best that I've ever have.

I think considering everything that I've been through after, you know, going through divorce, what my father went through, the time.

Unfortunately, he did pass away two years ago from COVID So that was, you know.

Thank you.

So in the last.

I've been through quite a bit, A lot.

I mean, we've all, we all have a story, right?

We've all gone through quite a few things, whatever.

But considering what everything that I've endured the last, you know, couple years and now pivoting to the unknown, closing a, you know, chapter of my life, I can say to you, I do.

I feel the best I. I have that ever.

That's amazing.

What's next for you?

Well, building.

Building fossil and traveling more, saying yes more and getting ready to, you know, help my daughter.

My.

She's 17 now.

Apply to colleges.

So we're.

I'm in that stage of midlife, like college campuses.

I mean, I know you have a long way to go, but.

Oh, my God, Roxy, like, I am.

Like beside yourself, right?

I mean, it's just.

And you know, as we go through midlife and, and navigate these changes and hormones too, like, my emotions too, like, I mean, I don't know.

It's definitely like she and I are best friends and, you know, sick.

She had Coachella last week and she came back sick on Monday and I took care.

She stayed home yesterday and I took care of her and she looked at me, she's like, what am I going to do when I go to college?

Are you going to come visit me when I tell you I need you?

I'm like, let's not talk about you leaving.

I don't even want to think about, you know, not being there.

I mean, we're always there for them.

And this is part of parenting, right?

And having children that we have to learn, let them fly.

But it's like, it's probably the hardest part of parenting, I would imagine, is letting them go.

It.

Letting them go.

Exactly.

And it's funny because I just had a meeting with our board members, you know, and us.

By this time, we have like six, six or seven events planned for the year.

What?

We have one event planned and I have.

I'm not even planning it.

The Alice and Olivia event.

That's Allison.

Olivia and B.

Are planning it with proceeds going to Fonda, which is amazing, but like, I don't have the bandwidth.

I'm not even there emotionally, like, or mentally.

My main focus right now is being with my daughters because time is slipping away and just Navi and his whole college, college thing this summer and you.

Know, it goes by in a blank.

I mean, it really, truly does.

As cliche as it is, you know, the days are long, the hours are long, but the evening years are so short.

They are, they go really, really quick.

But I do have my youngest.

Your daughter is in sixth grade, right?

Yeah, she's in sixth grade.

But it's like, you know, even with each developmental step, you know, like going into middle school does feel like there's a part of her that is gone now.

You know, it's like a part that's like she's grown out of, you know, and it's, it's there them seizing their independence, which I know is.

It has to happen.

But like, you know, it's just.

It's rough.

Yeah, it is.

But to answer your question, I'm going to see change.

I'm excited and I'm welcoming all these body changes and loving myself finally.

It's taken a really long time to get here and, you know, I, yeah, I can honestly say to you that I love myself madly.

That's.

It's powerful for sure.

Really powerful.

So what would you say?

The 25 year old Gina, was she there yet?

First and foremost, I would say that letting go of what other people think of you and to follow your dreams and to travel more.

I wish I traveled more for sure, but I was pursuing my career like I started a very young age.

I think that's very important.

And also to travel more and to say yes, more and to love yourself, love your body, love yourself.

Wear the fucking mini skirts.

Wear the, wear the crop tops, Wear all of that stuff.

But because I didn't.

But now you can.

Honey, I've seen you.

You can rock a crop top in a mini skirt.

I rock things now because I think, you know, it.

You know, when I started rocking mini, like, I never liked my legs.

That's just a thing that I had growing up.

I said rocking mini skirts at the age of 40 because I got like, you know what?

I'm, I'm married, I have kids.

I'm going to do it.

Who gives a shit?

And I just started wearing like, not super revealing clothes, but I started wearing mini skirts.

I don't, you know, I Don't wear shorts, which is funny.

I don't wear shirts, but I'll wear a mini skirt, like a cute denim miniskirt or tights, whatever.

And now I will rock a mid drift.

And I'm all about the plunging neckline now because I have very small breasts now.

After everything I went through, I will say that's one of my silver linings that I can rock a triangle triangle bikini top.

And I can, I can't wear bras anymore, but I can wear a plunging neckline and rock it.

And I am stoked.

When I had implants, I couldn't do it.

Oh, really?

I didn't feel confident.

I didn't know.

I didn't feel.

I personally didn't feel good in it and.

But now I'm good.

I have very small breasts.

I went from a double D pre cancer to very small, maybe very small B's.

And I'm very, very happy and feel more confident than ever.

Oh my God.

Well, you can definitely rock a bikini because I saw those photos, girl.

I'm like, give me those abs right now.

But yeah, I feel, I feel really good.

And cancer for me was a blessing in disguise for sure.

Really?

Do you think so?

Yeah.

You know, going back to, you know, women, I think women where again, I want all women to lean into their intuition because it's so powerful.

And I thank my body every day for not only for the strength to get me through everything I went through and give me the courage and the strength, but also the fact that my, my intuition, like I thank my body, the power of intuition, that is, that is a beautiful thing that I leaned into that and it was my intuition that guided me and that I am grateful for because that, just my intuition that having that feeling, that, that that powerful feeling of, of knowing has confirmed how powerful my intuition is.

And there's been many other things through the years that I have followed through on my intuition that, you know, were true and accurate.

I'm like, thank you.

What would you tell a woman listening right now that is struggling?

Now that you've sort of come on the other side of it, Lean into.

Your community, of course, ask for help.

Be gentle on yourself and you will get through this.

You will.

And I'm, I'm a big believer in support of again, ask for help.

Because people really do, friends and family most of the time want to help, but they don't know how to help.

You know, like they're, they help but they're just not quite sure.

And unfortunately, there's some people that can't handle it.

And they.

They disappear.

I'd many disappear in my life, you know, But I would also say just surround yourself with love and do a.

A life purge.

I think that's.

I think everybody should do it.

Like birds.

Oh, tell me about this life purge.

Life purge, I think, is very important.

I think me, like, when I was diagnosed, I purged, oh, my gosh, over a dozen clients because I just couldn't handle the toxicity and the stress.

I was like, this is.

I don't need this.

It hurt my bottom line in my business.

But health and wellbeing was so important.

Purge.

Purge your closet, which is very important.

I'm going through that right now.

Like, I'm doing a whole, like, wear everything in my closet this season.

I feel like I'm in the never ending purge of my closet.

It's like I can me purging and I just get so overwhelmed.

Yeah, I'll come over.

We'll have a fun.

We'll do a fun, like, playground.

Totally.

I would love to get into Roxy.

Let me come over and play in your closet.

We'll do, like, the whole thing.

It'll be super fun.

We'll make it super fun.

I would love that.

Purging people in your life.

I think I can't speak of my house right now because I'm in a disarray, because everything under my studio is in the house because I'm converting it into a one bedroom.

But your space, your personal space is very important, mentally, emotionally, just to have a clean, somewhat organized space.

Get rid of clutter.

But the biggest thing is purge the people in your life that don't provide you joy.

And I think that's very important, you know, and lean into the community that you have.

Lean into your family and friends.

If you have children and you're going through this, lean into them.

Because those little moments I had with my kids during these difficult healing stages were very important to me, you know, and call your friends.

Like my girlfriends were my lifeline and continue to be my lifeline, you know, making the time for yourself and your friends to call and talk about the weather, whatever it may be.

And then also, you know, self care.

Self care is very important.

Whatever that looks like, you know, Bass, read a book.

You know, the other suggestion I would have for, again, not just someone that's on this journey for you, for me, for everyone.

Get off social media.

I know.

God, it's so hard, Gina, when our businesses are so wrapped in it, you know?

Oh, I know.

And I've really struggled But I will say I did a, a social media detox last summer for six weeks and it was a game changer.

Where you did not look at it,.

Didn't look at it, it was off my phone.

Didn't post, didn't share, didn't doom scroll.

Even my intern at the time, she's like, your energy is so different.

Like, I didn't have that anxiety.

So.

But when you're building something like Fondle or a brand or a podcast or something, social media unfortunately is where it's at.

This is why, like, big deal for me.

Like, I've had this private business account for, I don't know, whenever Instagram started, what, 15 years ago, it's been private all these years.

Up until three days ago, I made it public and now I'm front facing as a founder.

It's my new founder page.

Right.

I'm putting myself out there, which is very vulnerable and a very big deal.

But as you know, as a founder and building things, you have to be present.

So I was like, okay, I need to be front facing and start talking about midlife and breath, health and style and all these things that we're going through.

I mean, I'm not a influencer.

By all means, I'm just gonna share things.

No, but you're a great storyteller, Gina.

That makes a difference.

Like, you're able to like, dispense the information to people in a way that they can understand it and digest it.

So that's huge.

Well, I'm just trying.

We're all going through midlife.

I want to be relatable.

I want, I want to be able to relate to you and I want to relate to you.

Like, what are you going through?

This is very real.

And building.

Pivoting into the unknown or pivoting into a new career in your late 40s and 50s, it's not easy.

I'm scared.

I really am scared.

There's highs and lows to it, and I think that's important that our audience, our followers or other women see the struggles.

Because it's not all.

It's not just a highlight reel.

Like, I am struggling.

I'm not getting paid.

I'm not.

And I had no idea this was going to be this difficult.

However, I believe in it, passionate about it.

It's my new purpose and I'm making an impact and I'm helping women along the way and the younger generation.

If I save one life, I've done my job, which I know that I already have.

Right.

And if I encourage women to Start performing their self exams or to push them to go do their screenings.

Awesome.

But it's a lot of work and it's scary.

But social media is where it's at.

However, time limits go through your.

Your feed mute.

Stop whoever you.

You know what I mean?

Like, try and do some kind of social media purge, because I think that's a healthy act of self love.

Okay.

Tell everybody where they can find you and if they want to reach out to you.

What is the best way?

The best way is you can DM me at the Fondl Project.

Um, or you can follow me at Gina Mlamana.

Say hello.

You can email us or the fondle project.org just say hello.

Send me a note.

I'd love to hear from you.

Yes, you're very good with people, so it's the perfect place for them to come find you.

There's something about Gina's story that lingers.

And it's not just what she went through, it's how she moved through it.

The decisions, the questions, the moments where she could have stepped back but didn't.

And I think what stays with me most is the idea that you don't always get certainty.

You don't always get clear answers.

But you do get a choice in whether you listen to yourself or talk yourself out of what you already know.

And that applies to everything.

Your health, your relationships, your identity, your next chapter.

So if this episode resonated with you, share it with someone who needs to hear it.

And don't forget to follow and leave a review wherever you get your podcasts.

It makes a bigger difference than you think.

And as always, whether you're breaking patterns, rebuilding your life, or just starting to ask better questions, you're not crazy.

You're evolving.

And that's iconic.