Jenny Breen has been a professional chef and advocate for sustainable food systems and food justice, and has worked directly with farmers and producers in the Twin Cities area, since the mid-1980s. Jenny’s philosophy about food is food does more than provide us with nutrients. It has memories. Cultural ties. We use it to celebrate. She recognizes that people have limited time, skills, and resources. It doesn't have to be expensive to eat more nutritious food. She believes in “cook once and eat two or three times.” Join us to learn about how to eat nutritious food on a tight budget.

About Jenny Breen

Cooking Up the Good Life: Creative Recipes for the Family Table by Jenny Breen and Susan Thurston

-

Frontline Initiative

Institute on Community Integration at the University of Minnesota

- Hello and welcome to

the podcast Wellness

Matters for Direct Support.

This is a podcast

developed by the University

of Minnesota's Institute

on community integration.

It's focused on the

importance of health, wellness

and self-care for direct workers.

My name is Chet Cheddar.

I work at ICI as a national

workforce consultant, as well

as I'm one of the co-editors

for Frontline Initiatives,

which is a magazine we publish along

with the National Alliance

for Direct Support.

I'm here with my colleague

and co-host Mark Olson.

- Hi everyone. You

probably know us by now,

but I also am a trainer

curriculum writer at ICI.

I did direct support

professionally for a lot of years,

30 plus years in recreation, residential

and vocational supports

and advocacy support.

And, and currently I do

a lot of direct support

for a family member.

So it's, it's, it's something that goes

beyond just doing it professionally.

There are people out there

that are doing direct support

just because it's a part

of meeting the needs of their family.

So just wanted to know

that, that folks like

that are included as well.

Our guest today is Jenny Breen.

She has been a professional chef

and a advocate for

sustainable food systems

and food justice, and has

worked directly with farmers

and producers here in

the Twin Cities area.

I'm sure there are

people in your own states

and your own regions that,

that do the same type of work.

She co-owned the Good Life Cafe

and catering a sustainable

to 2013.

She has a 2009 Archibald Busch

Foundation Leadership Fellow

and completed her

Master's in Public Health,

a nutrition at the University

She works to build strong

networks within health

and food systems for greater

access to food support

for sustainable farming,

which is meaningful to me,

and understanding of cooking

as a health strategy.

Her first cookbook,

cooking Up The Good Life,

emphasizes local seasonal Whole

Foods, cooking for Families,

and was released in April

of 2011 from the University

of Minnesota Press.

Jenny currently teaches at

the University of Minnesota,

including courses called I I love some

of the course titles

that you've made here.

Food Choices, healing the

Earth, healing Ourselves,

food Matters, cook Like

Your Life Depends on It.

Both of those are taught

through the Bachan Center

here at the University of Minnesota.

She also teaches a nutrition

cooking class called A Food

Systems Approach to Cooking

Through Healthy Foods

at the Healthy Lives

Institute and College of Food

and Agriculture and

Natural Resources Sciences

here at the University of Minnesota.

Also known as affectionately as Sea Fans

or muu sometimes call it just jokingly.

- So there that, there's a slight

correction on that last one.

It's no longer healthy foods,

healthy Lives, it's just

through food science and nutrition.

- So just through food

science and nutrition. All

- Right.

Yeah, so it's a, it's an

actual like required class

for nutrition students now.

- Oh, wonderful. Oh,

that's great. Wonderful.

So nutrition students that,

what's really nice about

that is people

who are providing information

about nutrition, hey,

it makes sense for that to

be a big part of it as far

- As it could.

You, you would think that

that was obvious. Yes.

- Well, it's obvious

now 'cause it's there.

She contracts as a public health

culinary nutrition educator

with local health

departments, school districts

and nonprofit food and

farming organizations as well.

Jenny's philosophy about food,

I I loved reading some of these things.

Okay. Food does a lot more

than provide us with nutrients.

It has memories, cultural

ties. We use it to celebrate.

Think about that. All

of us do those things

and we have food involved.

Think about any of your

celebrations that you have.

She's not interested in the diet wars,

so vegan versus keto versus paleo.

She believes people have

different preferences

and some people do better

on some diets than others.

Yeah, well, it is just

important that plants

and avoiding processed foods are a part of

how we approach life and, and,

and food to the extent that we can.

So whatever diet that a person is using,

how can you get that involved?

She recognized that

people have time, skill

and a financial restraints,

although it doesn't have

to be super expensive

to eat more nutritious food,

for example, we talked about

how frozen fruit and veggies

are much more budget friendly

and are nutritious, so we'll get into

that a little bit more as well.

She also recognizes that our

food system is set up in a way

that makes it harder for people

to eat in ways that support health.

She'll be talking about that

cooking philosophy

includes keeping it simple.

And this is, this is perfect for me

and one of the questions I'm

gonna ask later is really about

this, keeping it simple.

Cooking once and eating it two or two

or three times off of

that it sounds like is,

is is kind of one of the philosophies.

Jenny, Jenny Entrusts

and I, you know, that

is one of those things

that I know a lot of folks

that will be cooking on a weekend day

and then during the week they

kinda eat off of it a little bit.

Welcome, Jenny. Thank you.

And per your request, Chet

and I will start by sharing

stories about our lives related

to food, and I'm gonna

throw Chet under the bus

and have her go first.

- Oh, thanks a lot, mark.

I'm ready for this one.

I grew up a farm kid in South Dakota

and we were pretty much meat

and potato sort of people,

and vegetables were optional.

Fruit was always around,

there was always dessert.

And so that's how I grew up eating and,

and ate for many years.

I've since learned to shift that

to include more plant-based

and have a different sort of balance.

But that was that my upbringing

and that's for me for a long time.

If there wasn't meat, it wasn't a meal,

but I've shifted that.

- Okay. And in my story with

food, probably there's a number

of those, some similar

things to that with the meat

and potatoes kind of thing.

You know, family comes from

Wisconsin farmers, so, you know,

not a whole lot different.

There a lot more dairy probably

than, than South Dakota.

But we, when we moved to the cities,

when I was a very small child,

my parents were not making the

most, as far as as financial,

you know, existence for our family.

So we did a lot of canned vegetables.

And to this day I struggle with vegetables

because I grew up on canned vegetables

and they just really turned

me off of vegetables.

So when I get some really good

green beans like I did at an

event yesterday where

they've been cooked properly,

they're al dente and they have

some nice seasonings on them,

it's like candy to me.

Mm. I just love them, but

I don't get enough of them

and I don't know how to cook them

and get that type of type of cooking

for me to do it at home.

So that's one of the things that's

always one of my struggles.

So with that, we'll get into our questions

we're gonna talk about on this podcast.

Our, our main focus is

direct support workers, folks

that work in, in, in disability services

or any other type of services,

senior, senior centers.

Any place where somebody is,

is supporting other people.

And one of the things that

we're trying to do is deal

with the self-care of the

individual that's the supporter

and help them to become

more resilient people.

So how do we help folks that

do direct support do that,

and how does food fit into that?

- Starting with an easy one. Okay.

So you, some of the things

that you mentioned in describing me and,

and my philosophy have to

do with the food system.

I think it's really important.

And when I teach, you know,

the food choices class is a great example.

I'm teaching about the entire system

because we need to understand that, how

that system works in order

to understand the context

that people are operating

in when they're trying to

feed themselves, right?

Which looks really different

for different people,

but we all exist within this

system that is set up to

support big industrial agriculture,

which is mainly producing

a very small diversity

of things, right?

A few different animals

and corn and soy and wheat.

And then it's set up to process

those foods very cheaply

and then make those foods

incredibly available

all over the place, also

very cheaply for people.

So we're already, we're, we're kind

of starting at this place.

That's really difficult, right?

Because most direct care workers

and many of us don't have

a lot of extra money.

And so we're always working

on some sort of a budget

and we're having to think about, you know,

how can I stretch my dollar

and cheap food is a really

easy way to do that.

Unfortunately, there are all these impacts

that cheap food has

starting from the, you know,

the agricultural system

and the way that massive

industrial production

of food impacts the environment,

which then, you know,

has all these other effects

on us individually, right?

The, the chemicals and the

toxins that might be in the soil

or even in the air.

So that affects people.

And then the processed food

that people are consuming is

just really, really really

making people sick.

And, you know, I think,

I can't say exactly,

but around 80% of the conditions

that medical professionals are

treating right now are diet

and lifestyle related issues.

So these are not, you

know, infectious diseases,

these are chronic conditions

and that is directly connected to this,

this highly processed,

really low quality food

that people have

- That has been advertised

and packaged to just be so

beautiful and attractive.

- Absolutely. And,

and, you know, frankly,

our government is subsidizing

the production of that food.

So it's, it's available.

I mean, you talked about,

you know, meat and potatoes

and even the dietary

guidelines, certainly the ones

that we all grew up with, you know,

when we saw protein on

there, all we saw was meat.

Correct? Right. We didn't

know there was anything

else that was a protein.

And even still, and then that

bottom huge bottom section

with bread and pasta, that's

just not, we know now that

that's not a healthy

or sustainable way to eat for

our bodies and for the earth.

And, and what I love to teach

and what I think is really meaningful

and important to people is

that those two things are very connected.

So what's not good for

the earth is also not good

for humans or vice versa.

What's good for us is

also good for the earth.

So there's a really great

opportunity to make choices

that are, have these

really positive impacts.

- I really love that.

That's a really great way

to just think about it visually.

- Yeah. And, and I actually

have some wonderful

visuals that I show my students.

It's a, you know, where it shows kind of

how those same things that,

you know, fruits and vegetables

and whole grains that are so good for us

have the least environmental impact.

And again, vice versa.

So the meats and even the dairy

and some of the, some of the

fat and obviously the sugar

and sweets, those have the

most environmental impact.

And also obviously the

biggest impact on us humans.

And for young people that I teach,

there's a big motivator in understanding

environmental impact.

There's, that's a motivator

for a lot of young people where

maybe other things might

not be for some people,

maybe in our generation, you know,

health might be more of a motivator.

But in any case, I think it's

really important to understand

that you will feel

better if you eat in ways

that make you feel better.

And so even if it's just, you know,

you're, you wake up stiff

and your joints are sore

or you're tired, you

just don't have energy

or you know, maybe people

feel like they're carrying

too much weight around.

Those are all, again, really

related to what you eat

and what you put in your body.

And so, so that's a, I think a place

to start is giving people context

and saying like, this is really important.

The other thing that I

think is really important,

and it's, it's hard to, you know,

when you're dealing in the,

in the immediate with a budget

and, and sort of choices that

you have to make, it's hard

to recognize that the choices

that you make now are gonna

have an impact down the line.

And so what I usually say,

and of course with nuance,

depending who I'm talking to,

you can pay now or you can pay later,

but you don't get away without paying.

Right? So if we pay now,

are health is going to sustain us later

and we're probably gonna

not be facing a lot

of the health costs, financial

and physical that we deal

with later if we don't pay now,

that is the payment, right?

That people will be dealing

with health conditions,

chronic conditions, discomfort, pain,

and the costs that go along with those.

So it's kind of like an investment.

Well it's definitely an investment.

Again, it's hard

to make investments when you

don't feel like you have a lot.

But the other thing is that

it doesn't actually have to be

that expensive, it's just a commitment

of time and intention.

So you have to learn, you know,

what things you can do to

set yourself up to eat well

and be nourished.

And a lot of that is really about planning

and shopping smart and

prepping and cooking.

You said eat cook once, eat

three times, you know, lots

of people, the two barriers

that everyone believes

that they have are time and money, right?

Yeah. True across the board.

Doesn't matter what you do.

And while I know that that's true,

I know when I was in grad

school 15 years ago when I was

researching this, the

average amount of time

that people watch television,

'cause we didn't have,

you know, TikTok yet

was about six hours a day.

So even if we like break that

down to one hour a day, right?

We, there's time in there.

That's not to say that

people don't deserve

to just check out for a while.

I get it. We all do. We,

there is time in there to sort

of plan and put your list together

and think about, you know,

if I cook a big pot of beans

and I can make soup on Monday

and I can make enchiladas on Tuesday

and I can throw those beans in a salad

or scramble them with

my eggs on Wednesday,

I've got three days covered

with a incredibly nutritious,

very affordable protein.

So some of it is just learning,

oh, these are my options

and these are the things

I can do with them.

So there's a, a skill component, right?

Learning basic cooking and,

and how to put things together

and a planning and sort

of strategic component.

And that's what I love to

teach people is those kind

of those two things and

how, how what you get for

that investment is, is big

- As, as one who can probably

say that I didn't invest

as a young, as a youngster,

I'm investing now I can,

I can attest to that fact

because there are health

conditions that I now have

that I wouldn't have had had I done as,

as you're talking about

and really focused on

that nutrition a little bit more.

I'm learning. And I think

that that's the thing

that you're never too old to learn.

- No, no. And

and again, our system was not

set up to set you up, right.

Or your parents, right.

Most of our parents certainly didn't learn

that stuff at home or they, you know,

or it may have been just a

part of their environment.

A lot of people grew

up in farms, ate meat,

but they also ate a lot of

vegetables and it was seasonal

and it was just sort of,

you know, there was canning.

And so it was happening

without really acknowledging

that actually that was a

really healthy strategy.

Now we have to go back

to those strategies,

but we, we certainly in our generation

as kids didn't learn

these things anywhere.

I mean, I took home ec in

middle school and I made fudge

and brownies.

Maybe we have a lot of

missed opportunities.

There are opportunities

now to change that.

It's just that we now have

a generation of people

who can't pass that information on.

So I'm really interested

in training teachers

and training future health professionals

because they can actually

really make an impact,

but they're not learning that currently.

So, you know, we're all

kind of in that boat

of if you didn't learn it as

a kid, you're having to kind

of figure it out now. And

- I can also attest to

the fact that my niece

and nephews are much more attuned

to those things than I ever was.

Well, that's great. So it's,

it's been happening and,

and you know, probably they're

Gen z, they're, you know,

they're, you know, millennial, gen Z

and that kind of range between them all.

And they, they really

focus on that concept

that you were talking about of

how is this impacting the environment

and how is it impacting me?

So it's happening, what

you're doing is, is helping,

it's just, you know,

how it's getting there

and how often it's getting there.

- Well, and I think, I mean,

I have students all the time

who are, are hip young people who say,

I've never thought about this before.

So it's time we start thinking about it.

Like we can't, you know,

the earth can't wait

and people can't wait.

So we have to make these connections.

- Okay, well thank you.

- Alright, so

we know that social media

plays such an important

part in our lives.

The things we see on the

news, on our, on our phones

and magazines, all of that, it seems

to be giving us really conflicting

and confusing messages about what it means

to be healthy and eat healthy.

What are some basic principles

people really need to follow?

- Oh yeah, it is confusing.

And even before social

media it was confusing.

So it's really, really confusing.

And part of that is, again, back to

that food system I was talking about where

different interests have

a large influence, right?

So the, the big food companies folks,

they don't care about your health, right?

So whatever they're telling you is

because they're trying to make money.

So I say, and, and it,

it's very simple really.

And I don't know if you all

know who Michael Pollan is.

He, he wrote several books.

The Omnivores Dilemma was kind

of one that made him famous,

but he is written other books

just about this question of

what should we eat

and, you know, how

complicated should it be?

And he says,

eat food mostly plants not too much.

So I don't, you know, I actually think

that getting more complicated

is not helpful, right?

We, there are, you

mentioned all the different

kinds of diets, right?

Keto and paleo and vegan

and there are principles

in each of those diets

that are great, right?

Where there are whole

foods and where it's plants

and where people are cooking

at home, that's great,

that's a good component.

But to say that any one

diet is the right diet for

everyone is ridiculous.

We are individuals. Our

bodies are all individual.

There is virtually no way

to really, really prove

that one ingredient

or one nutrient has one

specific effect on people.

That's just not how nutrition, that's not

how food embodies work.

So nutrition science is a little messy

because you can't figure

things out that way.

Nutrients come in combinations

and different combinations of

food have different effects

and you know, so people

have to really learn how

to tune into their own bodies

and understand what effects

particular foods have on them.

But I would say for the most

part, if people can emphasize,

I say plant forward

or plant predominant, I don't

like the word plant-based

because honestly everything

is plant-based when

you break it down.

I think that's a term that

can be used as in sort

of a righteous way or shaming way.

And I'm not that interested in that.

So, but plant predominant,

so really emphasizing plants,

fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes,

these are all plants

and quality, quality is

such an important word

that I think can hopefully

help people understand this.

So you can have two

chickens or you know,

two containers of eggs

or even two, you know,

different broccoli plants

that are raised in such a way

that really changed the

quality of that food.

And many times you can taste it.

Oh, for sure you can taste it.

I mean I, you know, I'm a person

who really loves local fresh food

and absolutely you can taste it.

Obviously affordability

is connected to that.

Unfortunately fresh whole, you know,

sustainably produced food

tends to be more expensive.

Although that's changing

some, we have more

and more ways of accessing that food.

Farmer's markets, for example,

are a phenomenal way to get

fresh local seasonal

food pretty affordably.

Folks who are on snap

now, at least in Minnesota

and a lot of other states

can triple their snap

money at farmer's markets.

So I managed a farmer's

market for several years.

You can come and spend $10 on snap

and get $30 to spend at a farmer's market.

So we are working towards,

I mean, it's absurd to me

that we should have to do this, right?

Like in my mind, healthy

food is a human right

and there should be nobody

who doesn't have access to it.

But because of our systems,

we have to create policies

and we have to kind of

and go in the side door.

But there are lots of people

and organizations and,

and politicians

and experts who are working

on making those changes.

I would say also just, oh,

I had another thought about

this question of social media.

I mean, focus on

preparing, taking control

of what goes into your body.

And again, it doesn't

have to be complicated.

You know, there are, you

all told your food stories

or a little piece of your food stories,

everybody has a food story.

That's a really meaningful

place for a lot of people to start.

What did I eat at home?

What did my grandmother or my mother

or my father, you know,

my community prepared that

that was meaningful, that was nourishing.

Listening to our bodies is

another skill that, I mean, I,

I watched my kids listen

to their bodies when they were young.

And I see so many people,

even college, you know,

high school and college students

who stopped learning

how to do that, right?

They started looking at

social media and or whatever

and thinking that's how

my body should look.

And it doesn't matter

how I feel, I'm just need

to look this way or this

is what I should eat

because that person eats that way.

And so this is what I'm gonna do.

And the fact that I don't have energy

or that I'm starving

or that's not, I'm gonna ignore that

because the social

pressure's too, too hard.

I just heard a, a

story on NPR the other

day about just the impacts

of isolation and covid on young people.

And they said that disordered eating

was like tripled during covid.

So especially in young women.

So you're talking about so many

young women who are isolated

and just looking at images

all day on social media

and thinking that that's

what they need to do.

And having no perspective.

So I'm really about how you feel

and what gives you energy

and also, you know,

and like you said, not

only can you taste it,

but you can feel it when, when

you are feeding yourself food

that's nourishing

and energy producing, you can feel it

and it doesn't take long to,

to feel the difference if you

haven't been eating that way

and then you start to make

changes, even little changes,

it's amazing how quickly you feel that

- Not only in your body,

but for me it was like in my

brain I felt like a fog lifted

when I quit eating a lot

of sugars and processed

- Food.

Well, and, and our gut and our

brain are directly connected.

So this idea

that physical health stops

at our necks is silly, right?

There's such an incredible

connection between

what we put in our bodies and

how our brain both physically

and mentally operates.

So mental health and diet

are incredibly connected.

- I was just touching my

nose pointing at like spot on

because that is true.

Mental health and diet are

very, very much tied together.

Absolutely. Diet is tied to all of it.

Now, one of the things that

I've learned since, you know,

like I said, I'm always learning

and that's, that's, you know,

as, as, as an older person,

it's like that's important to

me is to always learn things.

And one of the things I've

learned is about carbohydrates

and the, the complex carbohydrate is, is

so much better if you can find it

and find complex carbohydrates

that you really enjoy.

I mean, I always grew

up on the white bread

that's all processed and all of that,

but over time I've started to

shift to more of what I used

to call the bread that has

sticks and twigs in it.

I, I really like the bread that has that,

that hardiness to it.

And so, you know, and a lot

of the flatbreads and the,

and then the, the, the breads

that, like the fin crisp

and the, the, the all the

crisp breads that come out

or it's very low sodium.

Very low carbohydrate.

Or if there's a lot a

carbohydrate in, well it's all

that's got carbohydrate,

but you've got fiber that offsets it

and it ends up being much

healthier and more filling.

- Right? And that's what I

mean when I say whole foods.

And I think, I mean that term carbohydrate

for some people starts to

feel a little overwhelming.

You start talking about, you know,

you start using terminology,

especially if you're not a medical student

or a, you know, in the medical field,

but whole foods is really

what you're talking about.

So whole versions of anything, any plant,

whole versions of

that plant are gonna be

really high in fiber.

Really, really like slow to digest,

which means they give you

sustained energy over time.

And generally,

although I don't like to

talk a lot about calories,

generally lower in calories

because they're not processed,

there's not stuff added that's hidden.

And you mentioned low salt.

And the truth is that if

you're eating whole foods,

and I mean really, so those,

those crackers at one time

they were a whole grain in

what we call intact whole grain

that didn't have anything added to it.

That's just that food.

And if we are cooking with Whole Foods,

we have a hundred percent control over

what goes into our food.

So any salt, which if we're

just adding it ourself,

we don't have to really worry about it.

'cause we can't add

excessive amounts of salt.

So when we start with a whole food

and then we prepare it,

there's never anything added

unless we add it.

- Well, and that's, that's very true

because you know, I I I love potatoes,

but I always have to put

a little bit of salt in.

Absolutely. But it's way less,

it's way less salt than

I would get if I were

to buy the frozen french

- Fries.

Well, and salt, you need salt. Yes, right?

Just like, just like a lot

of nutrients and minerals.

We need salt. But when food is processed,

there's just no limit to

how that, how it shows up

and how many versions of it.

And, and so being to control

that is really, you know,

it's a very natural way to consume food.

Right? I love salt.

I hate stuff that isn't

well salted, right.

That matters to me. I'm a chef.

Like, you gotta you gotta taste it.

- It brings, yeah, it brings

out the flavor when you

- Right.

And when and when you're cooking at home,

you do have so much more control.

It's fun to eat out and be at restaurants,

but you never quite know what,

what all has been put in the food.

- Yeah, yeah. And it's,

I mean, if that's right,

if you have the luxury

of being able to eat out,

then it's certainly worth

enjoying from time to time.

But that's a one real

opportunity for saving money.

Another one, getting back to the original,

or I don't know if you

asked this question,

but I know it's a

question around, you know,

how do we nourish

ourselves well on a budget

- That, that was the actual next

big question. Okay, so we'll

- Just go to it.

All right, then you can tell this stuff.

I think about all the time,

and it's a question, right?

That when you're teaching

future health providers

and they say, well what am I

supposed to say to a patient

who doesn't have the money

to eat organic, right?

For example, that's a really

common sort of response.

So the first thing I

say is, let's not start

with organic food, right?

Let's back up and say whole foods, foods

that come from nature

and that are in the form,

they come in nature.

And probably there are a couple places

where people can really start.

One is sugar sweetened

beverages in terms of cost,

but also just in terms of

what a difference it makes if

you can get sugar sweetened

beverages outta your,

out of your rotation.

'cause I, I didn't know

this until I started working

with nutritionists

and with my doctor colleagues,

how many sugar sweetened

beverages some people drink in a

day that has a, a significant impact

and diet beverages are not better.

And this is where the calorie question is,

is gets kind of fuzzy.

It's not just about calories.

It's about how your body

processes these things and,

and what do they called

artificial sweeteners.

They do all sorts of other

things that do not benefit you

enough that not at all.

In fact they, they have

similar impacts as sugar.

So you have a similar response

to artificial sweeteners

that you do to sugar.

So your body does kind

of does the same thing

around the processing of the sugar.

And so it, it's not like a, a good switch.

But the other, the other place

where you can really make an impact is

to scale back on your animal protein

because it's expensive.

And so, and I you are not

a l check in saying like,

if it didn't have meat, it's not a meal.

I encounter lot of

students, a lot of people

for whom that's true.

And also they thought that

that was the way they were

supposed to eat, right?

Like we grew up learning like

you gotta have protein on your

plate at every meal.

And protein meaning, you know,

beef usually maybe chicken.

And those are, again,

if it's a quality source

of meat or chicken

or fish, that's a perfectly

fine part of a diet,

but it should not be the

predominant part of your diet.

And so if you can just

sort of move that meat over

to the side or just make it

an ingredient rather than the

center of the plate

or you know, have it less often.

So I have students who

have meat three times a day

or you know, at least every day.

What if you had it a couple times a week?

And you know, those

are significant changes

and those are significant changes

that you'll feel physically,

certainly environmentally

and also financially.

So those are some things

that people can start to do.

And again, for folks for whom that's new,

that means learning some

new skills around cooking

with other kinds of ingredients.

- Well, yeah. And other proteins is,

it's always intrigued me

because, you know, I grew up in that meat

and potato life too.

And so, you know, I, I've

explored other proteins

and, you know, I found that

there's some beans and legumes

and things like that,

that if I cook with those

and add those in it,

it's a nice alternative.

I still am, you know, just historically

and to socially just, you

know, more, i, I eat meat,

but I, I've, I've learned to try

and say, you know, I'm

gonna go vegetarian today

and I'm going to eat, you know,

non-meat products all day.

So that's, you know,

and just periodically do

that to help too.

And, you know, it's, it gives,

at least it's giving me exposure.

Yeah. Giving a body that opportunity

to try something different.

- Yeah. Yeah. And, and that's, and

and sometimes that can

be really intimidating,

which is why I love to teach

because I think it can be

less intimidating when you're

cooking with other people

and you're just sort of experimenting.

And I can tell you that

maybe not a hundred percent

of the time, but let's say 98%

of the time people are surprised at

how delicious the food we make is,

even though it doesn't have meat in it.

And I'm not, I'm not anything,

I don't have a label in

terms of the way that I eat.

I don't eat very much meat.

It's never been something

that for me has been

that appealing and just

hasn't worked for me.

But I'm not a vegetarian, I'm not vegan.

I don't have a particular diet

that I tell people they should follow.

I think that there's just

too many problems with that.

But I do love to introduce

people to the deliciousness

of cooking without meat.

- Well, and that's, that's

goes right into the next

question, beautiful transition there.

Do you have any

suggestions for people who,

who never really learned how to cook

or maybe who don't have a lot

of the kitchen type equipment ideas?

Yeah, handy to them. Yeah.

- So first of all, you

don't need fancy equipment.

Really, really not, you know,

a good, a good frying pan

and some basic tools.

You know, a good knife is

probably the most important

investment to make for cooking

and a good cutting board maybe.

But really like you can

get by without a lot

of fancy equipment.

And actually I think most of

that fancy equipment is

superfluous to really cooking well.

What you need is some basic skills

and some kind of just an

understanding about how

to make things taste good, right?

So I really encourage people

to just start thinking

about building their pantry.

Obviously taking classes like

the ones that I teach are,

is a great way to, to start, right?

'cause you can get inspired,

you can learn some basic sort of formulas

or templates that can really translate.

So instead of teaching, I do,

obviously I wrote a cookbook,

I write recipes and I love to teach.

I know people love recipes.

But what I really love

to teach people is how

to cook without a recipe.

And how to just sort of

understand how to build flavor

and what com combines well

to make things taste good

and some basic sort of proportions

and ways that things go together.

So like a basic salad dressing.

You know, you got your oil or your fat

and you've got your acid

and then all the other things

are just building flavor.

And so you can add mustard

or you can add tahini

or you can add, you know,

honey or you can add marmalade

or you can, you know,

and you can make different

variations on a recipe without

having to have a recipe every time.

And that's where having a

pantry really becomes important.

And again, it's one of those things

where it is an investment

on the front end,

but then you don't have to go out

and buy olive oil every time you cook.

And you don't have to go

out and buy canned beans

or canned tomatoes every time you cook

because you've got things in your pantry.

And then cooking in bigger quantities.

So I'll cook if I'm gonna

cook beans, it's silly

to just cook them for one meal, right?

Because it takes no more energy

or time to cook a huge pot.

And so I'll cook a big pot

and then I usually take

some of those beans

and put 'em in smaller

containers in the freezer.

So they're there, they're cooked.

It's the same thing as

having canned beans.

If you can't do that, canned

beans are a fantastic option

and they're relatively inexpensive.

I think, you know, maybe

a dollar to a dollar 50

for a 15 ounce can of beans.

That's not bad 'cause

that's a, a power packed can

of protein and fiber

and things that you won't

get in certain other foods.

And then I've got my big

pot of beans, like I said,

I'll make soup, I'll make,

and maybe I make enough

soup that I can freeze half

that soup and pull it out at another time.

Or you know, in our house

we would maybe have that

for dinner

and then people would take

it for lunch the next day

or you know, and then you

take some of those beans

and you turn it into, sometimes

I'll even take leftover,

I make some pretty thick bean soups.

I'll take those and turn those

into burritos or enchiladas.

I don't even have to make a new dish.

I just let it thicken and cool

and then throw it into something else.

Or I'll scramble out

that honestly in my eggs.

I also, again, just anywhere

where you can add vegetables

and you know vegetables,

it's true they are expensive,

but you know, if you're

scaling back on the meat,

that might be another place to invest.

If you're scaling back on the

sugar sweetened beverages,

that might be another place to invest

because the payoff is so huge.

Getting your green vegetables,

your dark leafy greens,

you know, broccoli and kale and lettuces

and getting your orange

vegetables, your squash

and sweet potatoes, that

is invaluable in terms

of the nourishment that it gives you

and how it sustains you.

So it's a combination of

just, again, the planning

and the, the sort

of being intentional rather

than just walking into the

grocery store without a plan.

'cause most people, that's

what a lot of people do

and they end up either hungry,

they're shopping hungry,

so they're buying stuff

they wanna eat right now

or they're buying pre-made stuff

'cause they just don't

know what they're gonna do.

Or they're buying stuff

that they end up not using.

Which food waste is a huge

problem in this country

and around the world.

So having a plan, and that

might mean picking out recipes,

but it might just mean sort

of picking out some formulas.

Again, if I've got my beans

and I've got some, let's

say I've got some quinoa

or some rice cooked

and I've got some, maybe

I roasted a big pan

of vegetables at the beginning of the week

and I've got those, I've

got a meal in five minutes.

If I make a salad dressing

or sauce, I've got an amazing meal in

five minutes when I get home.

So the idea is to sort of, again,

put some time in on the front end

and once you start doing that,

it becomes easier, right?

It starts to become familiar

and more habit and routine

and, and then it doesn't

take as much time.

- Well one of my thing

things that my brother does,

and I envy him this ability

because he, he loves to cook

and he, he's one of those

that that that will just go

to his pantry as you say.

And he can just look

at what's in the pantry

and say, I'm gonna throw this, this, this,

this and this together.

Yeah, yeah. You know, a little

bit of olive oil in the pan,

saute that, blah, blah blah.

And he makes these flavorful meals.

- That's, my husband says that, he says,

when you look in the

refrigerator, you see meals.

When I look in the

refrigerator, I see ingredients.

So yeah, there's a leap

between ingredients

and then what, what am

I gonna end up with?

And that does take some time

and some practice. Absolutely.

And that, you know, I teach

nutrition students, I have them

for an entire semester, so 15 weeks.

And that is my goal.

I don't care if they're

gonna be professional chefs,

I don't care if they're going

to, you know, do anything in,

you know, in, you know, the

public sphere with their food.

But if they can look, if

they can build a pantry

and then look in their

pantry and come up with four

or five good, flavorful,

affordable meals to make,

then I have succeeded.

- Chad had one more

question. I think we want

- To Yeah, for sure.

I've been thinking a lot about

direct support workers while

we've been talking as well.

And I think this question

kind of goes hand in hand.

Something I experienced myself,

but I think they likely do as well.

When I am cooking for myself

and I, I am eating healthier

than when I am buying processed

food or going out to eat,

ordering something in.

But it's really easy to

become kind of overwhelmed

with the time that it takes to plan and,

and that time management,

which you just kind

of talked about and a lot

of the direct support workers

are working really long shifts

these days and really,

you know, covet their time

that they have, that they have

for you, they're not at work,

what are some things or some ways

that they can really break things down

and maybe feel a little

less overwhelmed with having

to do everything right away.

- Yeah. And I would say don't

do everything right away,

just start and, and pick one thing, right?

So maybe it's, I'm going to

roast one vegetable this week

and I'm just gonna put it in everything,

even if it's a frozen meal that

I'm heating from, you know,

in my kid in my microwave

or you know, I'm going

to make salad dressing

and then I'm just gonna

have salad with every meal.

Doesn't matter what I'm having,

I'm just gonna have a

little salad with that.

I also think, you know, you don't have

to do everything from scratch, right?

So we, you mentioned frozen

and canned vegetables, frozen

a especially frozen vegetables

are fantastic option

because they're generally,

they're already cut for you

and usually they're blanched.

The one thing I like people

to know is they're already

cooked so you don't

have to cook 'em again.

So you just have to, if if, if

you want 'em to be, you know,

have any texture, just

put 'em in long enough

to thaw or let them thaw

and then just throw 'em in

at the end of something.

'cause they will turn to mush if you,

you know, put 'em in. I didn't at the

- Beginning. I know that's

great to know. Thanks,

- Right.

But, but that, you know,

for, for honestly 80,

90% of the time it takes to

cook is the cutting of things,

which for a lot

of people can be really

meditative and really relaxing.

And I, I really hope to help

people find that as part

of this journey.

Is that, 'cause I know cooking

is really stressful for a lot

of people and if you can see

it as sort of a, a way of,

you know, maybe de decompressing

at the end of the day

and maybe you turn some nice music on

and you know, if you drink

wine, maybe you have some wine

or you, you know, you

create an environment

that feels relaxing

and I, I understand that

we're often very hungry

and feel like we need to

rush, but you know, maybe try

and just take your time a

little bit and do that prep,

but also don't put so

much pressure on yourself

that you have to do it all.

So if you, you know, if you

have some frozen vegetables

and, or you buy, maybe you

buy a cooked chicken already

and then you just cut that up

and throw it into a stir fry.

Or you again make soup out of it

or you know, make, even make a sandwich.

And on some level it doesn't always matter

what you're eating, it

matters that you are sort

of setting yourself up

for in that environment.

The other thing that's really important is

getting rid of the distraction.

So you mentioned social media, I would say

I do an activity with students

where I have them track their eating

but also their environment for three days.

And I, I don't care about calories

or quantities or anything.

I just wanna know like what are you eating

and what's happening

and how hungry are you

and how emotionally satisfied

are you when you eat, right?

Like those are the two things physically

and emotionally satisfied.

And again, almost everyone

is either eating in front

of their phone or their tv.

Very rarely is anyone just

fully engaging with their food.

And a lot of what happens then

is that we eat twice as much

as we really need.

'cause we're not paying attention.

So when students do mindful

eating, which is an activity

that we teach, which is really just sort

of taking some breaths.

So you're stimulating your, your rest

and digest your

parasympathetic nerve instead

of your sympathetic

nerve, which is the fight

or flight you're telling

your body, it's okay,

you can relax, you can

absorb your nutrients.

And frequently people say,

oh, I ate half as much

'cause I noticed I was

full, I had had enough.

So creating a like an

important space around eating,

you know, no phones at the table

or no TV on just being present,

which is really hard

for some people, right?

They're not used to just

being present with themselves.

Usually, you know, eating

is what, 15 minutes.

So people are like, well I

don't have time to do that.

I have to, you know, no, we have time

to honor our eating and our bodies.

It's better for our bodies.

Our bodies are gonna

absorb more nutrients.

Very likely we'll eat less or

we will feel more comfortable

because we will notice

when we're ready to stop.

So those are all things that you can do

to relieve pressure on yourself

and just gradually ease your way in

and then, you know, try things.

Maybe you buy an interesting

sauce at the grocery store

and then just put it on some things

and see if that makes some

of these vegetables

more interesting to you.

Or you know, just try a new whole grain.

Just buy a grain and cook it.

You know, the the nice

thing about a lot of stores

that you can buy in bulk

and that way you can just

buy small amounts of things

and try 'em out and then you're

not wasting your money if

you bought something you

don't really like, you know,

it doesn't have to all be at once.

You don't have to do everything.

None of us, including myself, are perfect.

None of us are doing

it right all the time.

I, there are some days when

I'm eating chips for dinner

'cause that's all I got.

You know what, that's okay.

I say to people all the time,

whatever choice you make,

make the choice with intention, move on.

Right? It's one meal.

There is no value in beating

ourselves up about something we

did or some choice we made that

maybe wasn't the ideal one.

We all do it. We're humans.

We get to choose again every day. So

- Yeah.

And that emotional connection

I think comes in there too.

Sometimes the place you're

at mentally and, and,

and just cheer where

you're at that day right?

Says, you know what, I

really, really wanna have

that ice cream bar today.

- Absolutely. You

- Know, so I'm gonna have

that ice cream bar and that's okay.

That's today. Absolutely.

And then tomorrow I move on.

- And the emotional, the meaning

that food has in our

lives is, is very complex.

And sometimes it is emotionally

what we're, you know,

what we're feeding and that's okay.

That's very, it's important

for us to acknowledge

that we're all, we're

complicated humans and,

and food is for most of

us, pretty complicated

for all kinds of reasons.

And certainly social media is

not helping keep it simple.

It's making it more complicated.

So I think as a parent, I felt,

and I have two daughters, boy,

it was sure important to me

to make an environment

that felt really like

just nonjudgmental and sort

of everything was fine.

However, in my house,

I felt like everything

that was in the house was

a choice I felt okay about.

Right. So I made that choice,

I decided what was available

and then that was the

extent of what I did.

But there's so much out,

there's so much shame

and judgment out there

connected to food and bodies.

There is no reason for us to add to that.

- We're recording this on the

international day of the woman.

Yeah. And,

and one of the things

that I just wanna tell,

tell everyone out there

is, is realize that

your body is your body

and whatever size it is, is what it is.

And you do what you need to do for you.

Don't let social media

or someone else's image

of what they you should be

drive you so much.

It's it that just

boggles my mind that that

that our media has that power.

- Yeah. Yeah.

Media has a lot of power and,

and our kids, you know,

starting with this new,

the generation slightly

younger than my kids,

we'll know nothing else.

So we have, we, it's our

responsibility, I think to really,

really empower them to

just feel like they have

control over their choices.

And yeah, it's hard. It's hard.

'cause as I said, not

only our food system,

but all of our systems are very,

very biased.

They're not very equitable.

And so there's a lot that

we need to do on this side

to give people the power to not be, not be

so negatively impacted by

- That.

Well, the equity of food is something

that we could do another entire

podcast on probably a whole

series of podcasts on.

Yeah. If we really wanted to.

So, Chuck, do you have anything else

that you'd like to add

before we close? No, I don't.

- This has been a great conversation. Oh,

- Thank you Jen.

Last word comes from you

and then I'll close us out.

- Oh, well I hope, you

know, we didn't talk

so specifically about direct care workers,

but in my mind all of these

messages apply to everyone

and it's really more about

sort of understanding

the choices that you make

and the impacts that they

have on you personally

and community and environment

and, you know, seeking out the skills

and tools that you can to,

to be in control of those choices.

And I'm happy to be a resource to people.

- Thank you very much. And we will have

that resource information

available through our, our DSP

Wellness Matters podcast

links and everything.

So thank you all for joining us.

Tune in for future

episodes about taking care

of our physical and mental

health and emotional health.

I want to throw that in there.

Episodes are available of, of,

of our podcast on your

favorite podcasting services.

This podcast is developed

by the University

of Minnesota's Institute

on community integration.

Wellness matters for direct

support is for the health,

wellness, and self care of

direct support professionals

because your wellness does matter.

Thank you and we'll see

you on our next podcast.