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Episode 5: Eating Healthy on a Budget
Episode 58th November 2023 • Wellness Matters for Direct Support • Institute on Community Integration, University of Minnesota
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Jenny Breen has been a professional chef and advocate for sustainable food systems and food justice, and has worked directly with farmers and producers in the Twin Cities area, since the mid-1980s. Jenny’s philosophy about food is food does more than provide us with nutrients. It has memories. Cultural ties. We use it to celebrate. She recognizes that people have limited time, skills, and resources. It doesn't have to be expensive to eat more nutritious food. She believes in “cook once and eat two or three times.” Join us to learn about how to eat nutritious food on a tight budget.

About Jenny Breen

Cooking Up the Good Life: Creative Recipes for the Family Table by Jenny Breen and Susan Thurston

-

Frontline Initiative

Institute on Community Integration at the University of Minnesota

Transcripts

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- Hello and welcome to

the podcast Wellness

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Matters for Direct Support.

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This is a podcast

developed by the University

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of Minnesota's Institute

on community integration.

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It's focused on the

importance of health, wellness

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and self-care for direct workers.

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My name is Chet Cheddar.

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I work at ICI as a national

workforce consultant, as well

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as I'm one of the co-editors

for Frontline Initiatives,

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which is a magazine we publish along

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with the National Alliance

for Direct Support.

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I'm here with my colleague

and co-host Mark Olson.

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- Hi everyone. You

probably know us by now,

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but I also am a trainer

curriculum writer at ICI.

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I did direct support

professionally for a lot of years,

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30 plus years in recreation, residential

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and vocational supports

and advocacy support.

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And, and currently I do

a lot of direct support

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for a family member.

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So it's, it's, it's something that goes

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beyond just doing it professionally.

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There are people out there

that are doing direct support

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just because it's a part

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of meeting the needs of their family.

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So just wanted to know

that, that folks like

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that are included as well.

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Our guest today is Jenny Breen.

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She has been a professional chef

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and a advocate for

sustainable food systems

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and food justice, and has

worked directly with farmers

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and producers here in

the Twin Cities area.

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I'm sure there are

people in your own states

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and your own regions that,

that do the same type of work.

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She co-owned the Good Life Cafe

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and catering a sustainable

food business from:

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to 2013.

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She has a 2009 Archibald Busch

Foundation Leadership Fellow

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and completed her

Master's in Public Health,

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a nutrition at the University

of Minnesota in:

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She works to build strong

networks within health

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and food systems for greater

access to food support

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for sustainable farming,

which is meaningful to me,

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and understanding of cooking

as a health strategy.

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Her first cookbook,

cooking Up The Good Life,

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emphasizes local seasonal Whole

Foods, cooking for Families,

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and was released in April

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of 2011 from the University

of Minnesota Press.

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Jenny currently teaches at

the University of Minnesota,

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including courses called I I love some

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of the course titles

that you've made here.

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Food Choices, healing the

Earth, healing Ourselves,

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food Matters, cook Like

Your Life Depends on It.

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Both of those are taught

through the Bachan Center

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here at the University of Minnesota.

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She also teaches a nutrition

cooking class called A Food

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Systems Approach to Cooking

Through Healthy Foods

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at the Healthy Lives

Institute and College of Food

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and Agriculture and

Natural Resources Sciences

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here at the University of Minnesota.

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Also known as affectionately as Sea Fans

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or muu sometimes call it just jokingly.

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- So there that, there's a slight

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correction on that last one.

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It's no longer healthy foods,

healthy Lives, it's just

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through food science and nutrition.

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- So just through food

science and nutrition. All

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- Right.

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Yeah, so it's a, it's an

actual like required class

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for nutrition students now.

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- Oh, wonderful. Oh,

that's great. Wonderful.

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So nutrition students that,

what's really nice about

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that is people

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who are providing information

about nutrition, hey,

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it makes sense for that to

be a big part of it as far

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- As it could.

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You, you would think that

that was obvious. Yes.

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- Well, it's obvious

now 'cause it's there.

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She contracts as a public health

culinary nutrition educator

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with local health

departments, school districts

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and nonprofit food and

farming organizations as well.

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Jenny's philosophy about food,

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I I loved reading some of these things.

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Okay. Food does a lot more

than provide us with nutrients.

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It has memories, cultural

ties. We use it to celebrate.

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Think about that. All

of us do those things

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and we have food involved.

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Think about any of your

celebrations that you have.

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She's not interested in the diet wars,

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so vegan versus keto versus paleo.

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She believes people have

different preferences

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and some people do better

on some diets than others.

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Yeah, well, it is just

important that plants

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and avoiding processed foods are a part of

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how we approach life and, and,

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and food to the extent that we can.

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So whatever diet that a person is using,

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how can you get that involved?

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She recognized that

people have time, skill

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and a financial restraints,

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although it doesn't have

to be super expensive

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to eat more nutritious food,

for example, we talked about

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how frozen fruit and veggies

are much more budget friendly

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and are nutritious, so we'll get into

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that a little bit more as well.

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She also recognizes that our

food system is set up in a way

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that makes it harder for people

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to eat in ways that support health.

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She'll be talking about that

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cooking philosophy

includes keeping it simple.

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And this is, this is perfect for me

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and one of the questions I'm

gonna ask later is really about

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this, keeping it simple.

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Cooking once and eating it two or two

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or three times off of

that it sounds like is,

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is is kind of one of the philosophies.

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Jenny, Jenny Entrusts

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and I, you know, that

is one of those things

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that I know a lot of folks

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that will be cooking on a weekend day

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and then during the week they

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kinda eat off of it a little bit.

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Welcome, Jenny. Thank you.

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And per your request, Chet

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and I will start by sharing

stories about our lives related

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to food, and I'm gonna

throw Chet under the bus

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and have her go first.

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- Oh, thanks a lot, mark.

I'm ready for this one.

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I grew up a farm kid in South Dakota

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and we were pretty much meat

and potato sort of people,

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and vegetables were optional.

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Fruit was always around,

there was always dessert.

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And so that's how I grew up eating and,

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and ate for many years.

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I've since learned to shift that

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to include more plant-based

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and have a different sort of balance.

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But that was that my upbringing

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and that's for me for a long time.

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If there wasn't meat, it wasn't a meal,

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but I've shifted that.

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- Okay. And in my story with

food, probably there's a number

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of those, some similar

things to that with the meat

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and potatoes kind of thing.

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You know, family comes from

Wisconsin farmers, so, you know,

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not a whole lot different.

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There a lot more dairy probably

than, than South Dakota.

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But we, when we moved to the cities,

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when I was a very small child,

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my parents were not making the

most, as far as as financial,

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you know, existence for our family.

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So we did a lot of canned vegetables.

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And to this day I struggle with vegetables

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because I grew up on canned vegetables

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and they just really turned

me off of vegetables.

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So when I get some really good

green beans like I did at an

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event yesterday where

they've been cooked properly,

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they're al dente and they have

some nice seasonings on them,

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it's like candy to me.

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Mm. I just love them, but

I don't get enough of them

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and I don't know how to cook them

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and get that type of type of cooking

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for me to do it at home.

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So that's one of the things that's

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always one of my struggles.

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So with that, we'll get into our questions

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we're gonna talk about on this podcast.

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Our, our main focus is

direct support workers, folks

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that work in, in, in disability services

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or any other type of services,

senior, senior centers.

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Any place where somebody is,

is supporting other people.

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And one of the things that

we're trying to do is deal

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with the self-care of the

individual that's the supporter

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and help them to become

more resilient people.

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So how do we help folks that

do direct support do that,

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and how does food fit into that?

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- Starting with an easy one. Okay.

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So you, some of the things

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that you mentioned in describing me and,

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and my philosophy have to

do with the food system.

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I think it's really important.

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And when I teach, you know,

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the food choices class is a great example.

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I'm teaching about the entire system

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because we need to understand that, how

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that system works in order

to understand the context

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that people are operating

in when they're trying to

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feed themselves, right?

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Which looks really different

for different people,

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but we all exist within this

system that is set up to

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support big industrial agriculture,

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which is mainly producing

a very small diversity

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of things, right?

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A few different animals

and corn and soy and wheat.

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And then it's set up to process

those foods very cheaply

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and then make those foods

incredibly available

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all over the place, also

very cheaply for people.

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So we're already, we're, we're kind

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of starting at this place.

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That's really difficult, right?

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Because most direct care workers

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and many of us don't have

a lot of extra money.

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And so we're always working

on some sort of a budget

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and we're having to think about, you know,

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how can I stretch my dollar

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and cheap food is a really

easy way to do that.

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Unfortunately, there are all these impacts

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that cheap food has

starting from the, you know,

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the agricultural system

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and the way that massive

industrial production

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of food impacts the environment,

which then, you know,

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has all these other effects

on us individually, right?

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The, the chemicals and the

toxins that might be in the soil

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or even in the air.

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So that affects people.

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And then the processed food

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that people are consuming is

just really, really really

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making people sick.

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And, you know, I think,

I can't say exactly,

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but around 80% of the conditions

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that medical professionals are

treating right now are diet

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and lifestyle related issues.

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So these are not, you

know, infectious diseases,

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these are chronic conditions

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and that is directly connected to this,

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this highly processed,

really low quality food

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that people have

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- That has been advertised

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and packaged to just be so

beautiful and attractive.

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- Absolutely. And,

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and, you know, frankly,

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our government is subsidizing

the production of that food.

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So it's, it's available.

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I mean, you talked about,

you know, meat and potatoes

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and even the dietary

guidelines, certainly the ones

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that we all grew up with, you know,

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when we saw protein on

there, all we saw was meat.

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Correct? Right. We didn't

know there was anything

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else that was a protein.

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And even still, and then that

bottom huge bottom section

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with bread and pasta, that's

just not, we know now that

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that's not a healthy

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or sustainable way to eat for

our bodies and for the earth.

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And, and what I love to teach

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and what I think is really meaningful

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and important to people is

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that those two things are very connected.

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So what's not good for

the earth is also not good

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for humans or vice versa.

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What's good for us is

also good for the earth.

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So there's a really great

opportunity to make choices

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that are, have these

really positive impacts.

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- I really love that.

That's a really great way

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to just think about it visually.

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- Yeah. And, and I actually

have some wonderful

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visuals that I show my students.

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It's a, you know, where it shows kind of

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how those same things that,

you know, fruits and vegetables

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and whole grains that are so good for us

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have the least environmental impact.

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And again, vice versa.

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So the meats and even the dairy

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and some of the, some of the

fat and obviously the sugar

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and sweets, those have the

most environmental impact.

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And also obviously the

biggest impact on us humans.

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And for young people that I teach,

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there's a big motivator in understanding

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environmental impact.

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There's, that's a motivator

for a lot of young people where

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maybe other things might

not be for some people,

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maybe in our generation, you know,

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health might be more of a motivator.

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But in any case, I think it's

really important to understand

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that you will feel

better if you eat in ways

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that make you feel better.

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And so even if it's just, you know,

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you're, you wake up stiff

and your joints are sore

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or you're tired, you

just don't have energy

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or you know, maybe people

feel like they're carrying

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too much weight around.

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Those are all, again, really

related to what you eat

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and what you put in your body.

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And so, so that's a, I think a place

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to start is giving people context

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and saying like, this is really important.

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The other thing that I

think is really important,

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and it's, it's hard to, you know,

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when you're dealing in the,

in the immediate with a budget

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and, and sort of choices that

you have to make, it's hard

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to recognize that the choices

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that you make now are gonna

have an impact down the line.

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And so what I usually say,

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and of course with nuance,

depending who I'm talking to,

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you can pay now or you can pay later,

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but you don't get away without paying.

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Right? So if we pay now,

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are health is going to sustain us later

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and we're probably gonna

not be facing a lot

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of the health costs, financial

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and physical that we deal

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with later if we don't pay now,

that is the payment, right?

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That people will be dealing

with health conditions,

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chronic conditions, discomfort, pain,

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and the costs that go along with those.

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So it's kind of like an investment.

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Well it's definitely an investment.

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Again, it's hard

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to make investments when you

don't feel like you have a lot.

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But the other thing is that

it doesn't actually have to be

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that expensive, it's just a commitment

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of time and intention.

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So you have to learn, you know,

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what things you can do to

set yourself up to eat well

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and be nourished.

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And a lot of that is really about planning

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and shopping smart and

prepping and cooking.

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You said eat cook once, eat

three times, you know, lots

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of people, the two barriers

that everyone believes

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that they have are time and money, right?

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Yeah. True across the board.

Doesn't matter what you do.

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And while I know that that's true,

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I know when I was in grad

school 15 years ago when I was

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researching this, the

average amount of time

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that people watch television,

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'cause we didn't have,

you know, TikTok yet

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was about six hours a day.

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So even if we like break that

down to one hour a day, right?

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We, there's time in there.

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That's not to say that

people don't deserve

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to just check out for a while.

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I get it. We all do. We,

there is time in there to sort

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of plan and put your list together

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and think about, you know,

if I cook a big pot of beans

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and I can make soup on Monday

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and I can make enchiladas on Tuesday

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and I can throw those beans in a salad

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or scramble them with

my eggs on Wednesday,

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I've got three days covered

with a incredibly nutritious,

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very affordable protein.

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So some of it is just learning,

oh, these are my options

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and these are the things

I can do with them.

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So there's a, a skill component, right?

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Learning basic cooking and,

and how to put things together

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and a planning and sort

of strategic component.

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And that's what I love to

teach people is those kind

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of those two things and

how, how what you get for

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that investment is, is big

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- As, as one who can probably

say that I didn't invest

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as a young, as a youngster,

I'm investing now I can,

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I can attest to that fact

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because there are health

conditions that I now have

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that I wouldn't have had had I done as,

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as you're talking about

and really focused on

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that nutrition a little bit more.

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I'm learning. And I think

that that's the thing

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that you're never too old to learn.

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- No, no. And

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and again, our system was not

set up to set you up, right.

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Or your parents, right.

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Most of our parents certainly didn't learn

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that stuff at home or they, you know,

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or it may have been just a

part of their environment.

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A lot of people grew

up in farms, ate meat,

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but they also ate a lot of

vegetables and it was seasonal

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and it was just sort of,

you know, there was canning.

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And so it was happening

without really acknowledging

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that actually that was a

really healthy strategy.

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Now we have to go back

to those strategies,

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but we, we certainly in our generation

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as kids didn't learn

these things anywhere.

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I mean, I took home ec in

middle school and I made fudge

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and brownies.

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Maybe we have a lot of

missed opportunities.

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There are opportunities

now to change that.

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It's just that we now have

a generation of people

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who can't pass that information on.

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So I'm really interested

in training teachers

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and training future health professionals

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because they can actually

really make an impact,

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but they're not learning that currently.

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So, you know, we're all

kind of in that boat

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of if you didn't learn it as

a kid, you're having to kind

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of figure it out now. And

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- I can also attest to

the fact that my niece

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and nephews are much more attuned

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to those things than I ever was.

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Well, that's great. So it's,

it's been happening and,

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and you know, probably they're

Gen z, they're, you know,

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they're, you know, millennial, gen Z

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and that kind of range between them all.

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And they, they really

focus on that concept

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that you were talking about of

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how is this impacting the environment

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and how is it impacting me?

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So it's happening, what

you're doing is, is helping,

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it's just, you know,

how it's getting there

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and how often it's getting there.

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- Well, and I think, I mean,

I have students all the time

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who are, are hip young people who say,

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I've never thought about this before.

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So it's time we start thinking about it.

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Like we can't, you know,

the earth can't wait

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and people can't wait.

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So we have to make these connections.

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- Okay, well thank you.

- Alright, so

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we know that social media

plays such an important

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part in our lives.

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The things we see on the

news, on our, on our phones

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and magazines, all of that, it seems

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to be giving us really conflicting

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and confusing messages about what it means

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to be healthy and eat healthy.

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What are some basic principles

people really need to follow?

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- Oh yeah, it is confusing.

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And even before social

media it was confusing.

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So it's really, really confusing.

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And part of that is, again, back to

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that food system I was talking about where

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different interests have

a large influence, right?

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So the, the big food companies folks,

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they don't care about your health, right?

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So whatever they're telling you is

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because they're trying to make money.

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So I say, and, and it,

it's very simple really.

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And I don't know if you all

know who Michael Pollan is.

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He, he wrote several books.

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The Omnivores Dilemma was kind

of one that made him famous,

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but he is written other books

just about this question of

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what should we eat

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and, you know, how

complicated should it be?

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And he says,

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eat food mostly plants not too much.

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So I don't, you know, I actually think

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that getting more complicated

is not helpful, right?

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We, there are, you

mentioned all the different

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kinds of diets, right?

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Keto and paleo and vegan

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and there are principles

in each of those diets

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that are great, right?

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Where there are whole

foods and where it's plants

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and where people are cooking

at home, that's great,

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that's a good component.

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But to say that any one

diet is the right diet for

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everyone is ridiculous.

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We are individuals. Our

bodies are all individual.

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There is virtually no way

to really, really prove

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that one ingredient

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or one nutrient has one

specific effect on people.

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That's just not how nutrition, that's not

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how food embodies work.

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So nutrition science is a little messy

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because you can't figure

things out that way.

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Nutrients come in combinations

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and different combinations of

food have different effects

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and you know, so people

have to really learn how

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to tune into their own bodies

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and understand what effects

particular foods have on them.

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But I would say for the most

part, if people can emphasize,

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I say plant forward

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or plant predominant, I don't

like the word plant-based

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because honestly everything

is plant-based when

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you break it down.

Speaker:

I think that's a term that

can be used as in sort

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of a righteous way or shaming way.

Speaker:

And I'm not that interested in that.

Speaker:

So, but plant predominant,

so really emphasizing plants,

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fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes,

Speaker:

these are all plants

Speaker:

and quality, quality is

such an important word

Speaker:

that I think can hopefully

help people understand this.

Speaker:

So you can have two

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chickens or you know,

two containers of eggs

Speaker:

or even two, you know,

different broccoli plants

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that are raised in such a way

Speaker:

that really changed the

quality of that food.

Speaker:

And many times you can taste it.

Speaker:

Oh, for sure you can taste it.

Speaker:

I mean I, you know, I'm a person

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who really loves local fresh food

Speaker:

and absolutely you can taste it.

Speaker:

Obviously affordability

is connected to that.

Speaker:

Unfortunately fresh whole, you know,

Speaker:

sustainably produced food

tends to be more expensive.

Speaker:

Although that's changing

some, we have more

Speaker:

and more ways of accessing that food.

Speaker:

Farmer's markets, for example,

are a phenomenal way to get

Speaker:

fresh local seasonal

food pretty affordably.

Speaker:

Folks who are on snap

now, at least in Minnesota

Speaker:

and a lot of other states

can triple their snap

Speaker:

money at farmer's markets.

Speaker:

So I managed a farmer's

market for several years.

Speaker:

You can come and spend $10 on snap

Speaker:

and get $30 to spend at a farmer's market.

Speaker:

So we are working towards,

I mean, it's absurd to me

Speaker:

that we should have to do this, right?

Speaker:

Like in my mind, healthy

food is a human right

Speaker:

and there should be nobody

who doesn't have access to it.

Speaker:

But because of our systems,

we have to create policies

Speaker:

and we have to kind of

and go in the side door.

Speaker:

But there are lots of people

and organizations and,

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and politicians

Speaker:

and experts who are working

on making those changes.

Speaker:

I would say also just, oh,

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I had another thought about

this question of social media.

Speaker:

I mean, focus on

Speaker:

preparing, taking control

of what goes into your body.

Speaker:

And again, it doesn't

have to be complicated.

Speaker:

You know, there are, you

all told your food stories

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or a little piece of your food stories,

Speaker:

everybody has a food story.

Speaker:

That's a really meaningful

Speaker:

place for a lot of people to start.

Speaker:

What did I eat at home?

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What did my grandmother or my mother

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or my father, you know,

my community prepared that

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that was meaningful, that was nourishing.

Speaker:

Listening to our bodies is

another skill that, I mean, I,

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I watched my kids listen

Speaker:

to their bodies when they were young.

Speaker:

And I see so many people,

even college, you know,

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high school and college students

Speaker:

who stopped learning

how to do that, right?

Speaker:

They started looking at

social media and or whatever

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and thinking that's how

my body should look.

Speaker:

And it doesn't matter

how I feel, I'm just need

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to look this way or this

is what I should eat

Speaker:

because that person eats that way.

Speaker:

And so this is what I'm gonna do.

Speaker:

And the fact that I don't have energy

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or that I'm starving

Speaker:

or that's not, I'm gonna ignore that

Speaker:

because the social

pressure's too, too hard.

Speaker:

I just heard a, a

Speaker:

story on NPR the other

day about just the impacts

Speaker:

of isolation and covid on young people.

Speaker:

And they said that disordered eating

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was like tripled during covid.

Speaker:

So especially in young women.

Speaker:

So you're talking about so many

young women who are isolated

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and just looking at images

all day on social media

Speaker:

and thinking that that's

what they need to do.

Speaker:

And having no perspective.

Speaker:

So I'm really about how you feel

Speaker:

and what gives you energy

and also, you know,

Speaker:

and like you said, not

only can you taste it,

Speaker:

but you can feel it when, when

you are feeding yourself food

Speaker:

that's nourishing

Speaker:

and energy producing, you can feel it

Speaker:

and it doesn't take long to,

Speaker:

to feel the difference if you

haven't been eating that way

Speaker:

and then you start to make

changes, even little changes,

Speaker:

it's amazing how quickly you feel that

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- Not only in your body,

Speaker:

but for me it was like in my

brain I felt like a fog lifted

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when I quit eating a lot

of sugars and processed

Speaker:

- Food.

Speaker:

Well, and, and our gut and our

brain are directly connected.

Speaker:

So this idea

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that physical health stops

at our necks is silly, right?

Speaker:

There's such an incredible

connection between

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what we put in our bodies and

how our brain both physically

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and mentally operates.

Speaker:

So mental health and diet

are incredibly connected.

Speaker:

- I was just touching my

nose pointing at like spot on

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because that is true.

Speaker:

Mental health and diet are

very, very much tied together.

Speaker:

Absolutely. Diet is tied to all of it.

Speaker:

Now, one of the things that

I've learned since, you know,

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like I said, I'm always learning

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and that's, that's, you know,

as, as, as an older person,

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it's like that's important to

me is to always learn things.

Speaker:

And one of the things I've

learned is about carbohydrates

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and the, the complex carbohydrate is, is

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so much better if you can find it

Speaker:

and find complex carbohydrates

that you really enjoy.

Speaker:

I mean, I always grew

up on the white bread

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that's all processed and all of that,

Speaker:

but over time I've started to

shift to more of what I used

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to call the bread that has

sticks and twigs in it.

Speaker:

I, I really like the bread that has that,

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that hardiness to it.

Speaker:

And so, you know, and a lot

of the flatbreads and the,

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and then the, the, the breads

that, like the fin crisp

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and the, the, the all the

crisp breads that come out

Speaker:

or it's very low sodium.

Speaker:

Very low carbohydrate.

Speaker:

Or if there's a lot a

carbohydrate in, well it's all

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that's got carbohydrate,

Speaker:

but you've got fiber that offsets it

Speaker:

and it ends up being much

healthier and more filling.

Speaker:

- Right? And that's what I

mean when I say whole foods.

Speaker:

And I think, I mean that term carbohydrate

Speaker:

for some people starts to

feel a little overwhelming.

Speaker:

You start talking about, you know,

Speaker:

you start using terminology,

Speaker:

especially if you're not a medical student

Speaker:

or a, you know, in the medical field,

Speaker:

but whole foods is really

what you're talking about.

Speaker:

So whole versions of anything, any plant,

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whole versions of

Speaker:

that plant are gonna be

really high in fiber.

Speaker:

Really, really like slow to digest,

Speaker:

which means they give you

sustained energy over time.

Speaker:

And generally,

Speaker:

although I don't like to

talk a lot about calories,

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generally lower in calories

Speaker:

because they're not processed,

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there's not stuff added that's hidden.

Speaker:

And you mentioned low salt.

Speaker:

And the truth is that if

you're eating whole foods,

Speaker:

and I mean really, so those,

Speaker:

those crackers at one time

they were a whole grain in

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what we call intact whole grain

Speaker:

that didn't have anything added to it.

Speaker:

That's just that food.

Speaker:

And if we are cooking with Whole Foods,

Speaker:

we have a hundred percent control over

Speaker:

what goes into our food.

Speaker:

So any salt, which if we're

just adding it ourself,

Speaker:

we don't have to really worry about it.

Speaker:

'cause we can't add

excessive amounts of salt.

Speaker:

So when we start with a whole food

Speaker:

and then we prepare it,

there's never anything added

Speaker:

unless we add it.

Speaker:

- Well, and that's, that's very true

Speaker:

because you know, I I I love potatoes,

Speaker:

but I always have to put

a little bit of salt in.

Speaker:

Absolutely. But it's way less,

Speaker:

it's way less salt than

I would get if I were

Speaker:

to buy the frozen french

Speaker:

- Fries.

Speaker:

Well, and salt, you need salt. Yes, right?

Speaker:

Just like, just like a lot

of nutrients and minerals.

Speaker:

We need salt. But when food is processed,

Speaker:

there's just no limit to

how that, how it shows up

Speaker:

and how many versions of it.

Speaker:

And, and so being to control

that is really, you know,

Speaker:

it's a very natural way to consume food.

Speaker:

Right? I love salt.

Speaker:

I hate stuff that isn't

well salted, right.

Speaker:

That matters to me. I'm a chef.

Speaker:

Like, you gotta you gotta taste it.

Speaker:

- It brings, yeah, it brings

out the flavor when you

Speaker:

- Right.

Speaker:

And when and when you're cooking at home,

Speaker:

you do have so much more control.

Speaker:

It's fun to eat out and be at restaurants,

Speaker:

but you never quite know what,

Speaker:

what all has been put in the food.

Speaker:

- Yeah, yeah. And it's,

I mean, if that's right,

Speaker:

if you have the luxury

of being able to eat out,

Speaker:

then it's certainly worth

enjoying from time to time.

Speaker:

But that's a one real

opportunity for saving money.

Speaker:

Another one, getting back to the original,

Speaker:

or I don't know if you

asked this question,

Speaker:

but I know it's a

question around, you know,

Speaker:

how do we nourish

ourselves well on a budget

Speaker:

- That, that was the actual next

Speaker:

big question. Okay, so we'll

Speaker:

- Just go to it.

Speaker:

All right, then you can tell this stuff.

Speaker:

I think about all the time,

and it's a question, right?

Speaker:

That when you're teaching

future health providers

Speaker:

and they say, well what am I

supposed to say to a patient

Speaker:

who doesn't have the money

to eat organic, right?

Speaker:

For example, that's a really

common sort of response.

Speaker:

So the first thing I

say is, let's not start

Speaker:

with organic food, right?

Speaker:

Let's back up and say whole foods, foods

Speaker:

that come from nature

Speaker:

and that are in the form,

they come in nature.

Speaker:

And probably there are a couple places

Speaker:

where people can really start.

Speaker:

One is sugar sweetened

beverages in terms of cost,

Speaker:

but also just in terms of

Speaker:

what a difference it makes if

you can get sugar sweetened

Speaker:

beverages outta your,

out of your rotation.

Speaker:

'cause I, I didn't know

this until I started working

Speaker:

with nutritionists

Speaker:

and with my doctor colleagues,

Speaker:

how many sugar sweetened

beverages some people drink in a

Speaker:

day that has a, a significant impact

Speaker:

and diet beverages are not better.

Speaker:

And this is where the calorie question is,

Speaker:

is gets kind of fuzzy.

Speaker:

It's not just about calories.

Speaker:

It's about how your body

processes these things and,

Speaker:

and what do they called

artificial sweeteners.

Speaker:

They do all sorts of other

things that do not benefit you

Speaker:

enough that not at all.

Speaker:

In fact they, they have

similar impacts as sugar.

Speaker:

So you have a similar response

to artificial sweeteners

Speaker:

that you do to sugar.

Speaker:

So your body does kind

of does the same thing

Speaker:

around the processing of the sugar.

Speaker:

And so it, it's not like a, a good switch.

Speaker:

But the other, the other place

Speaker:

where you can really make an impact is

Speaker:

to scale back on your animal protein

Speaker:

because it's expensive.

Speaker:

And so, and I you are not

a l check in saying like,

Speaker:

if it didn't have meat, it's not a meal.

Speaker:

I encounter lot of

students, a lot of people

Speaker:

for whom that's true.

Speaker:

And also they thought that

Speaker:

that was the way they were

supposed to eat, right?

Speaker:

Like we grew up learning like

you gotta have protein on your

Speaker:

plate at every meal.

Speaker:

And protein meaning, you know,

Speaker:

beef usually maybe chicken.

Speaker:

And those are, again,

if it's a quality source

Speaker:

of meat or chicken

Speaker:

or fish, that's a perfectly

fine part of a diet,

Speaker:

but it should not be the

predominant part of your diet.

Speaker:

And so if you can just

sort of move that meat over

Speaker:

to the side or just make it

an ingredient rather than the

Speaker:

center of the plate

Speaker:

or you know, have it less often.

Speaker:

So I have students who

have meat three times a day

Speaker:

or you know, at least every day.

Speaker:

What if you had it a couple times a week?

Speaker:

And you know, those

are significant changes

Speaker:

and those are significant changes

Speaker:

that you'll feel physically,

certainly environmentally

Speaker:

and also financially.

Speaker:

So those are some things

that people can start to do.

Speaker:

And again, for folks for whom that's new,

Speaker:

that means learning some

new skills around cooking

Speaker:

with other kinds of ingredients.

Speaker:

- Well, yeah. And other proteins is,

Speaker:

it's always intrigued me

Speaker:

because, you know, I grew up in that meat

Speaker:

and potato life too.

Speaker:

And so, you know, I, I've

explored other proteins

Speaker:

and, you know, I found that

there's some beans and legumes

Speaker:

and things like that,

that if I cook with those

Speaker:

and add those in it,

it's a nice alternative.

Speaker:

I still am, you know, just historically

Speaker:

and to socially just, you

know, more, i, I eat meat,

Speaker:

but I, I've, I've learned to try

Speaker:

and say, you know, I'm

gonna go vegetarian today

Speaker:

and I'm going to eat, you know,

non-meat products all day.

Speaker:

So that's, you know,

and just periodically do

Speaker:

that to help too.

Speaker:

And, you know, it's, it gives,

Speaker:

at least it's giving me exposure.

Speaker:

Yeah. Giving a body that opportunity

Speaker:

to try something different.

Speaker:

- Yeah. Yeah. And, and that's, and

Speaker:

and sometimes that can

be really intimidating,

Speaker:

which is why I love to teach

Speaker:

because I think it can be

less intimidating when you're

Speaker:

cooking with other people

Speaker:

and you're just sort of experimenting.

Speaker:

And I can tell you that

maybe not a hundred percent

Speaker:

of the time, but let's say 98%

Speaker:

of the time people are surprised at

Speaker:

how delicious the food we make is,

Speaker:

even though it doesn't have meat in it.

Speaker:

And I'm not, I'm not anything,

Speaker:

I don't have a label in

terms of the way that I eat.

Speaker:

I don't eat very much meat.

Speaker:

It's never been something

that for me has been

Speaker:

that appealing and just

hasn't worked for me.

Speaker:

But I'm not a vegetarian, I'm not vegan.

Speaker:

I don't have a particular diet

Speaker:

that I tell people they should follow.

Speaker:

I think that there's just

too many problems with that.

Speaker:

But I do love to introduce

people to the deliciousness

Speaker:

of cooking without meat.

Speaker:

- Well, and that's, that's

goes right into the next

Speaker:

question, beautiful transition there.

Speaker:

Do you have any

suggestions for people who,

Speaker:

who never really learned how to cook

Speaker:

or maybe who don't have a lot

Speaker:

of the kitchen type equipment ideas?

Speaker:

Yeah, handy to them. Yeah.

Speaker:

- So first of all, you

don't need fancy equipment.

Speaker:

Really, really not, you know,

a good, a good frying pan

Speaker:

and some basic tools.

Speaker:

You know, a good knife is

probably the most important

Speaker:

investment to make for cooking

Speaker:

and a good cutting board maybe.

Speaker:

But really like you can

get by without a lot

Speaker:

of fancy equipment.

Speaker:

And actually I think most of

Speaker:

that fancy equipment is

superfluous to really cooking well.

Speaker:

What you need is some basic skills

Speaker:

and some kind of just an

understanding about how

Speaker:

to make things taste good, right?

Speaker:

So I really encourage people

Speaker:

to just start thinking

about building their pantry.

Speaker:

Obviously taking classes like

the ones that I teach are,

Speaker:

is a great way to, to start, right?

Speaker:

'cause you can get inspired,

Speaker:

you can learn some basic sort of formulas

Speaker:

or templates that can really translate.

Speaker:

So instead of teaching, I do,

obviously I wrote a cookbook,

Speaker:

I write recipes and I love to teach.

Speaker:

I know people love recipes.

Speaker:

But what I really love

to teach people is how

Speaker:

to cook without a recipe.

Speaker:

And how to just sort of

understand how to build flavor

Speaker:

and what com combines well

to make things taste good

Speaker:

and some basic sort of proportions

Speaker:

and ways that things go together.

Speaker:

So like a basic salad dressing.

Speaker:

You know, you got your oil or your fat

Speaker:

and you've got your acid

Speaker:

and then all the other things

are just building flavor.

Speaker:

And so you can add mustard

or you can add tahini

Speaker:

or you can add, you know,

honey or you can add marmalade

Speaker:

or you can, you know,

Speaker:

and you can make different

variations on a recipe without

Speaker:

having to have a recipe every time.

Speaker:

And that's where having a

pantry really becomes important.

Speaker:

And again, it's one of those things

Speaker:

where it is an investment

on the front end,

Speaker:

but then you don't have to go out

Speaker:

and buy olive oil every time you cook.

Speaker:

And you don't have to go

out and buy canned beans

Speaker:

or canned tomatoes every time you cook

Speaker:

because you've got things in your pantry.

Speaker:

And then cooking in bigger quantities.

Speaker:

So I'll cook if I'm gonna

cook beans, it's silly

Speaker:

to just cook them for one meal, right?

Speaker:

Because it takes no more energy

or time to cook a huge pot.

Speaker:

And so I'll cook a big pot

Speaker:

and then I usually take

some of those beans

Speaker:

and put 'em in smaller

containers in the freezer.

Speaker:

So they're there, they're cooked.

Speaker:

It's the same thing as

having canned beans.

Speaker:

If you can't do that, canned

beans are a fantastic option

Speaker:

and they're relatively inexpensive.

Speaker:

I think, you know, maybe

a dollar to a dollar 50

Speaker:

for a 15 ounce can of beans.

Speaker:

That's not bad 'cause

that's a, a power packed can

Speaker:

of protein and fiber

Speaker:

and things that you won't

get in certain other foods.

Speaker:

And then I've got my big

pot of beans, like I said,

Speaker:

I'll make soup, I'll make,

Speaker:

and maybe I make enough

soup that I can freeze half

Speaker:

that soup and pull it out at another time.

Speaker:

Or you know, in our house

we would maybe have that

Speaker:

for dinner

Speaker:

and then people would take

it for lunch the next day

Speaker:

or you know, and then you

take some of those beans

Speaker:

and you turn it into, sometimes

I'll even take leftover,

Speaker:

I make some pretty thick bean soups.

Speaker:

I'll take those and turn those

into burritos or enchiladas.

Speaker:

I don't even have to make a new dish.

Speaker:

I just let it thicken and cool

Speaker:

and then throw it into something else.

Speaker:

Or I'll scramble out

that honestly in my eggs.

Speaker:

I also, again, just anywhere

where you can add vegetables

Speaker:

and you know vegetables,

it's true they are expensive,

Speaker:

but you know, if you're

scaling back on the meat,

Speaker:

that might be another place to invest.

Speaker:

If you're scaling back on the

sugar sweetened beverages,

Speaker:

that might be another place to invest

Speaker:

because the payoff is so huge.

Speaker:

Getting your green vegetables,

your dark leafy greens,

Speaker:

you know, broccoli and kale and lettuces

Speaker:

and getting your orange

vegetables, your squash

Speaker:

and sweet potatoes, that

is invaluable in terms

Speaker:

of the nourishment that it gives you

Speaker:

and how it sustains you.

Speaker:

So it's a combination of

just, again, the planning

Speaker:

and the, the sort

Speaker:

of being intentional rather

than just walking into the

Speaker:

grocery store without a plan.

Speaker:

'cause most people, that's

what a lot of people do

Speaker:

and they end up either hungry,

they're shopping hungry,

Speaker:

so they're buying stuff

they wanna eat right now

Speaker:

or they're buying pre-made stuff

Speaker:

'cause they just don't

know what they're gonna do.

Speaker:

Or they're buying stuff

that they end up not using.

Speaker:

Which food waste is a huge

problem in this country

Speaker:

and around the world.

Speaker:

So having a plan, and that

might mean picking out recipes,

Speaker:

but it might just mean sort

of picking out some formulas.

Speaker:

Again, if I've got my beans

Speaker:

and I've got some, let's

say I've got some quinoa

Speaker:

or some rice cooked

Speaker:

and I've got some, maybe

I roasted a big pan

Speaker:

of vegetables at the beginning of the week

Speaker:

and I've got those, I've

got a meal in five minutes.

Speaker:

If I make a salad dressing

Speaker:

or sauce, I've got an amazing meal in

Speaker:

five minutes when I get home.

Speaker:

So the idea is to sort of, again,

Speaker:

put some time in on the front end

Speaker:

and once you start doing that,

it becomes easier, right?

Speaker:

It starts to become familiar

and more habit and routine

Speaker:

and, and then it doesn't

take as much time.

Speaker:

- Well one of my thing

things that my brother does,

Speaker:

and I envy him this ability

because he, he loves to cook

Speaker:

and he, he's one of those

that that that will just go

Speaker:

to his pantry as you say.

Speaker:

And he can just look

at what's in the pantry

Speaker:

and say, I'm gonna throw this, this, this,

Speaker:

this and this together.

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah. You know, a little

bit of olive oil in the pan,

Speaker:

saute that, blah, blah blah.

Speaker:

And he makes these flavorful meals.

Speaker:

- That's, my husband says that, he says,

Speaker:

when you look in the

refrigerator, you see meals.

Speaker:

When I look in the

refrigerator, I see ingredients.

Speaker:

So yeah, there's a leap

between ingredients

Speaker:

and then what, what am

I gonna end up with?

Speaker:

And that does take some time

and some practice. Absolutely.

Speaker:

And that, you know, I teach

nutrition students, I have them

Speaker:

for an entire semester, so 15 weeks.

Speaker:

And that is my goal.

Speaker:

I don't care if they're

gonna be professional chefs,

Speaker:

I don't care if they're going

to, you know, do anything in,

Speaker:

you know, in, you know, the

public sphere with their food.

Speaker:

But if they can look, if

they can build a pantry

Speaker:

and then look in their

pantry and come up with four

Speaker:

or five good, flavorful,

affordable meals to make,

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then I have succeeded.

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- Chad had one more

question. I think we want

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- To Yeah, for sure.

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I've been thinking a lot about

direct support workers while

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we've been talking as well.

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And I think this question

kind of goes hand in hand.

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Something I experienced myself,

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but I think they likely do as well.

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When I am cooking for myself

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and I, I am eating healthier

than when I am buying processed

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food or going out to eat,

ordering something in.

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But it's really easy to

become kind of overwhelmed

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with the time that it takes to plan and,

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and that time management,

which you just kind

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of talked about and a lot

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of the direct support workers

are working really long shifts

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these days and really,

you know, covet their time

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that they have, that they have

for you, they're not at work,

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what are some things or some ways

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that they can really break things down

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and maybe feel a little

less overwhelmed with having

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to do everything right away.

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- Yeah. And I would say don't

do everything right away,

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just start and, and pick one thing, right?

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So maybe it's, I'm going to

roast one vegetable this week

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and I'm just gonna put it in everything,

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even if it's a frozen meal that

I'm heating from, you know,

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in my kid in my microwave

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or you know, I'm going

to make salad dressing

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and then I'm just gonna

have salad with every meal.

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Doesn't matter what I'm having,

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I'm just gonna have a

little salad with that.

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I also think, you know, you don't have

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to do everything from scratch, right?

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So we, you mentioned frozen

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and canned vegetables, frozen

a especially frozen vegetables

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are fantastic option

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because they're generally,

they're already cut for you

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and usually they're blanched.

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The one thing I like people

to know is they're already

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cooked so you don't

have to cook 'em again.

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So you just have to, if if, if

you want 'em to be, you know,

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have any texture, just

put 'em in long enough

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to thaw or let them thaw

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and then just throw 'em in

at the end of something.

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'cause they will turn to mush if you,

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you know, put 'em in. I didn't at the

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- Beginning. I know that's

great to know. Thanks,

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- Right.

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But, but that, you know,

for, for honestly 80,

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90% of the time it takes to

cook is the cutting of things,

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which for a lot

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of people can be really

meditative and really relaxing.

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And I, I really hope to help

people find that as part

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of this journey.

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Is that, 'cause I know cooking

is really stressful for a lot

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of people and if you can see

it as sort of a, a way of,

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you know, maybe de decompressing

at the end of the day

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and maybe you turn some nice music on

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and you know, if you drink

wine, maybe you have some wine

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or you, you know, you

create an environment

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that feels relaxing

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and I, I understand that

we're often very hungry

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and feel like we need to

rush, but you know, maybe try

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and just take your time a

little bit and do that prep,

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but also don't put so

much pressure on yourself

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that you have to do it all.

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So if you, you know, if you

have some frozen vegetables

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and, or you buy, maybe you

buy a cooked chicken already

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and then you just cut that up

and throw it into a stir fry.

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Or you again make soup out of it

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or you know, make, even make a sandwich.

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And on some level it doesn't always matter

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what you're eating, it

matters that you are sort

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of setting yourself up

for in that environment.

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The other thing that's really important is

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getting rid of the distraction.

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So you mentioned social media, I would say

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I do an activity with students

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where I have them track their eating

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but also their environment for three days.

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And I, I don't care about calories

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or quantities or anything.

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I just wanna know like what are you eating

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and what's happening

and how hungry are you

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and how emotionally satisfied

are you when you eat, right?

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Like those are the two things physically

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and emotionally satisfied.

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And again, almost everyone

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is either eating in front

of their phone or their tv.

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Very rarely is anyone just

fully engaging with their food.

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And a lot of what happens then

is that we eat twice as much

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as we really need.

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'cause we're not paying attention.

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So when students do mindful

eating, which is an activity

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that we teach, which is really just sort

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of taking some breaths.

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So you're stimulating your, your rest

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and digest your

parasympathetic nerve instead

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of your sympathetic

nerve, which is the fight

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or flight you're telling

your body, it's okay,

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you can relax, you can

absorb your nutrients.

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And frequently people say,

oh, I ate half as much

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'cause I noticed I was

full, I had had enough.

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So creating a like an

important space around eating,

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you know, no phones at the table

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or no TV on just being present,

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which is really hard

for some people, right?

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They're not used to just

being present with themselves.

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Usually, you know, eating

is what, 15 minutes.

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So people are like, well I

don't have time to do that.

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I have to, you know, no, we have time

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to honor our eating and our bodies.

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It's better for our bodies.

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Our bodies are gonna

absorb more nutrients.

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Very likely we'll eat less or

we will feel more comfortable

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because we will notice

when we're ready to stop.

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So those are all things that you can do

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to relieve pressure on yourself

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and just gradually ease your way in

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and then, you know, try things.

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Maybe you buy an interesting

sauce at the grocery store

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and then just put it on some things

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and see if that makes some

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of these vegetables

more interesting to you.

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Or you know, just try a new whole grain.

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Just buy a grain and cook it.

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You know, the the nice

thing about a lot of stores

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that you can buy in bulk

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and that way you can just

buy small amounts of things

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and try 'em out and then you're

not wasting your money if

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you bought something you

don't really like, you know,

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it doesn't have to all be at once.

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You don't have to do everything.

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None of us, including myself, are perfect.

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None of us are doing

it right all the time.

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I, there are some days when

I'm eating chips for dinner

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'cause that's all I got.

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You know what, that's okay.

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I say to people all the time,

whatever choice you make,

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make the choice with intention, move on.

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Right? It's one meal.

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There is no value in beating

ourselves up about something we

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did or some choice we made that

maybe wasn't the ideal one.

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We all do it. We're humans.

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We get to choose again every day. So

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- Yeah.

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And that emotional connection

I think comes in there too.

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Sometimes the place you're

at mentally and, and,

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and just cheer where

you're at that day right?

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Says, you know what, I

really, really wanna have

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that ice cream bar today.

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- Absolutely. You

- Know, so I'm gonna have

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that ice cream bar and that's okay.

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That's today. Absolutely.

And then tomorrow I move on.

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- And the emotional, the meaning

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that food has in our

lives is, is very complex.

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And sometimes it is emotionally

what we're, you know,

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what we're feeding and that's okay.

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That's very, it's important

for us to acknowledge

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that we're all, we're

complicated humans and,

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and food is for most of

us, pretty complicated

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for all kinds of reasons.

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And certainly social media is

not helping keep it simple.

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It's making it more complicated.

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So I think as a parent, I felt,

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and I have two daughters, boy,

it was sure important to me

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to make an environment

that felt really like

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just nonjudgmental and sort

of everything was fine.

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However, in my house,

I felt like everything

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that was in the house was

a choice I felt okay about.

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Right. So I made that choice,

I decided what was available

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and then that was the

extent of what I did.

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But there's so much out,

there's so much shame

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and judgment out there

connected to food and bodies.

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There is no reason for us to add to that.

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- We're recording this on the

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international day of the woman.

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Yeah. And,

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and one of the things

that I just wanna tell,

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tell everyone out there

is, is realize that

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your body is your body

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and whatever size it is, is what it is.

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And you do what you need to do for you.

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Don't let social media

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or someone else's image

of what they you should be

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drive you so much.

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It's it that just

boggles my mind that that

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that our media has that power.

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- Yeah. Yeah.

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Media has a lot of power and,

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and our kids, you know,

starting with this new,

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the generation slightly

younger than my kids,

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we'll know nothing else.

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So we have, we, it's our

responsibility, I think to really,

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really empower them to

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just feel like they have

control over their choices.

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And yeah, it's hard. It's hard.

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'cause as I said, not

only our food system,

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but all of our systems are very,

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very biased.

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They're not very equitable.

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And so there's a lot that

we need to do on this side

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to give people the power to not be, not be

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so negatively impacted by

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- That.

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Well, the equity of food is something

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that we could do another entire

podcast on probably a whole

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series of podcasts on.

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Yeah. If we really wanted to.

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So, Chuck, do you have anything else

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that you'd like to add

before we close? No, I don't.

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- This has been a great conversation. Oh,

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- Thank you Jen.

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Last word comes from you

and then I'll close us out.

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- Oh, well I hope, you

know, we didn't talk

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so specifically about direct care workers,

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but in my mind all of these

messages apply to everyone

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and it's really more about

sort of understanding

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the choices that you make

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and the impacts that they

have on you personally

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and community and environment

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and, you know, seeking out the skills

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and tools that you can to,

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to be in control of those choices.

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And I'm happy to be a resource to people.

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- Thank you very much. And we will have

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that resource information

available through our, our DSP

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Wellness Matters podcast

links and everything.

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So thank you all for joining us.

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Tune in for future

episodes about taking care

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of our physical and mental

health and emotional health.

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I want to throw that in there.

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Episodes are available of, of,

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of our podcast on your

favorite podcasting services.

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This podcast is developed

by the University

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of Minnesota's Institute

on community integration.

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Wellness matters for direct

support is for the health,

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wellness, and self care of

direct support professionals

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because your wellness does matter.

Speaker:

Thank you and we'll see

you on our next podcast.

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