A tongue twisting name with a twist to the game. Team Koakuma delves into the minds of gamers as they build their MMO-ARPG. Inspired by retro era games like GTA and Age of Legends , the team looks at the hooks as they create an arena focused on fun and engagement. Speaking with Lance Tan on The Future of NFTs from Team Koakuma. Get ready for some fun.

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Powered UP Gaming - Lance Tan. Koakuma

Participants:

• Nadja Bester (CEO & Co-founder of AdLunam)

• Lance Tan (Business Development Manager at Koakuma)

00:22

Nadja

01:25

Nadja

So as a team, I just want to recommit publicly that we are as committed as ever to building a company and a platform that stays true to our company and our individual values, which is to democratize Web3 investing. So, guys, wag me, even though the past few days and the continuously falling market prices have made most of us in the industry feel pretty d*** bleak. But AdLunam wholeheartedly believes in the crucial importance of self-education, which is why we are bringing you shows such as these to provide insider perspectives into the world of Web3. And let's face it, there's a lot of perspectives in this industry, so got to listen to them all. So on a much happier note, if you tuned into last week's episode of Diving into Crypto with Michael Smorenburg, the author of the book In Code We Trust, I have a very yay announcement.

02:25

Nadja

AdLunam will soon be launching an exciting YouTube series where Michael will be offering our community a crash course in the fundamentals of money and crypto. Just that basic Web3 education that I think sometimes when we are caught up in the hype, we don't always remember about the fundamentals because we sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that it's only when the industry as a whole puts knowledge before hype that we are going to be able to spot bad actors a mile off. So enough of the heavy talk. Let's get into a very cool topic today with today's guests. Have some fun talking about games. So. Hey, web3 world. This is Nadja Bester from AdLunam, and you are listening to The Future of NFTs, the show that looks beyond current NFT use cases and dives into what non fungible token technology is evolving into. All this as seen through the eyes and built by the fascinating minds of the amazing guest speakers that we are lucky enough to speak to each week.

03:32

Nadja

AdLunam is the only IDO Launchpad that rewards attention with allocation. Our Engage to Earn platform features dynamic NFT investor profiles, NFT allocation fractionalization and our very cool, one of a kind Proof of Attention allocation mechanism. So set your clocks for the Future of NFTs live on Twitter Spaces every Tuesday and subscribe to us via podcast for those episodes you are not able to catch live. Of course, our sister show Diving into Crypto is every bit as exciting as this one, and that is live every Thursday, same time, same place. So do join us for both shows as we speak to thought leaders and change makers in this very cool, but sometimes very stressful game changing industry. Now, today's topic, one thing is very clear, the AdLunam community loves games. After we had a chat a couple of weeks ago with Gamestarter, many of you reached out asking that we do a feature on play and earn games.

04:39

Nadja

So I'm very excited today to bring you just that. We are joined today by Lance Tan, business development manager at Koakuma, which is a play and earn MMO ARPG, that's short for Massive Multiplayer Online Action Role Playing Game. So join us this hour as we dig into how Koakuma is using NFTs to power the ecosystem and more thoughts on the future of play and earn games in the GameFi space. Of course, if you have questions, as I'm sure you might put in your speaker request during Q and A at the end of the hour, or you can always DM your question at any time throughout the show to the AdLunam Twitter handle AdLunam Inc. So, with that, Lance, welcome once again. We are dialing in from opposite ends of the earth and not going to say I just woke up, but yeah, I don't have as much mileage on my clock today as you have.

05:38

Nadja

So thank you once again for tuning in so late in your day. I know that you are passionate about bridging the gap between web2 and web3, so I'm really looking forward to kick starting our discussion on all things GameFi NFT, play and earn, and of course, how Koakuma is contributing to this evolution of this little corner of web3 and gaming. But let's start with the easy stuff and get to know you a little bit better. So tell us, what is your background and how did you get into web3?

06:13

Lance

Yeah, hi, Nadja, thank you so much again for having me here, for having Koakuma on the show, and I would like to also thank everyone who tuned in for their time and for listening. So, for me, I've been in sales and marketing for over six years now and I've worked mostly with startups and small to medium sized businesses in the entirety of my career, from tourism, healthcare, publishing, construction, you name it, even digital marketing agencies. And basically now I'm in web3. And I think one of the things that got me that Web3 basically blockchain can achieve with what we have right now, not just in gaming, but in finance and everything else. And when I'm not working, I'm an active guy. I like to work out at the gym. I also cycle. I love running. I'm actually preparing for a marathon upcoming this January.

07:15

Lance

So have a very strict regimen I'm following, but I'm really passionate about learning new things. I think that's what makes me think, and not just in learning more about what Web3 is, what GameFi is and what its effect is, not just in the gaming industry, but as a whole for humanity later on, what we can achieve with the tech currently. And yeah, I think that's basically an overview about what makes me tick and what I am as a person, not just work outside of work.

07:53

Nadja

I'm going to go into my second part of the question that I wanted to know. So in terms of NFT and the Web3 space, there are so many people who are for this industry and this technology and there are so many people who are against it. Now I'm going to assume, because we are both in this industry on the show today talking about this stuff, that you are for it rather than against it. So tell me, when did the light bulb go on for you that NFTs and Web3 is a force to be reckoned with?

08:30

Lance

09:39

Lance

10:41

Lance

What does NFTs have to play in this role of gaming? Is it just limited to equipment? What are the different utilities? I would just like also to mention some ideas that are coming up with, let's say Gablaidan with the free mints DigiDaigaku you have that people are just coming up with different innovative ideas. And I think time will only tell what strategies, what methods will actually last or stand the test of time. Not just the volatility of the markets, but you have Axie, for example. It was one of the best games. Then the fallen rise of Axie, it's still there. It's not as big as it was. It's trying to remain relevant. And I think that's something that games will have to figure out as they continue to build. Right now, I think it's a building phase for a lot of games in this space and you'll basically notice the real ones.

11:40

Lance

So this type of market right now weeds out those rug pools or those games who are just in it to just earn and get money. You really see the quality games. Who's going to stand up that sometimes? So I think that's basically what flipped the switch for me. And ever since then, I basically dipped my entire self into the world of NFTs and blockchain crypto, you name it.

12:07

Nadja

Amen to that. I wanted to comment Lance and say that in the end everyone gets turned. It doesn't matter how long you take to go from hating this to loving this, but in the end, people will turn because this inevitably is the future. And I was thinking while you were speaking two really important things that you said that highlighted itself in my brain. First of all, your talk about being a curious person. But curiosity is this amazing thing because curiosity is what leads to innovation. The more you ask yourself what is out there? What is it that I don't know? What is it that I'm missing about this? The more you immerse yourself in the question, I mean, you develop the answers by proxy. It's not possible to be curious and not at some point become innovative. That's the beauty of being curious. But especially in the space because in the web3 industry there are so many possibilities to be innovative because we are really figuring this out as we go along.

13:14

Nadja

Unfortunately, sometimes not in a very good way. As we've seen the last few days. But for those good actors, and I think this is the beauty, especially in this current market, because, as you say, at the moment, the bad actors are being weeded out because there's no big money flowing. There's no hype, there's no people rushing and wanting to get into whatever it is you're doing. So projects that at the moment continue to build even though you are not getting those dopamine hits, you are not getting the big audiences and everyone wants to get in and it's not there right now. So if you have the commitment and the passion to stay and build, now that really says something. Because we all know as soon as the bull market comes back, whenever that's going to be, we are going to see the next feeding frenzy.

14:05

Nadja

It's like in the ocean where the sharks all come out, when there's, I don't know, a Sardine run, for instance, and suddenly sharks come from everywhere across the ocean and whales come open their big mouths and in they go. But those little fish in the web3 space who stay in the ocean and keep on building shout out to all of us. And so happy to have Koakuma. I knew I was going to mispronounce it at some point.

14:33

Lance

It's a tongue twister.

14:35

Nadja

That was the one time that I was going to say it wrong and now it will not happen again. So, Lance, I want to get into Koakuma, but as a Play and Earn game, you feature in the game Immersive, combat mechanics, a graphics intensive metaverse, randomized dungeons and skills combination system. Now I know what all of that means, but I myself am not a gamer. So tell me about the magic that makes Koakuma what it is.

15:07

Lance

Sure.

15:08

Lance

16:14

Lance

And unfortunately for us with the market, we can never really tell and even with this FTX thing. So I just want to segue a bit there. You just never know what happens in crypto, right? This FTX thing just happened just within a week from $14 billion just being wiped out completely. And it's a sad thing, but we just got to keep building. I would say it's not false hope, but as long as there is action in it and like these meaningful relations that we are creating right now, especially. Thank you for this opportunity that you're giving us, actually to speak and just informing people about the project that we're building and people to try it out, actually. So, for those of you who are not aware, we're actually currently in our coast beta version two testing of the game. And it's actually available at the Elixir App, one of our partners.

17:17

Lance

So you can go ahead and check out the game there. And ever since then, actually, the developers. Carousel was inspired with Jablo World of Warcraft Lost Art. Some of you are familiar with these names. These inspired them to create Koakuma. The artwork of Koakuma is, I would say, a bit kind of similar to Gigantic, but there are also some of the mechanics, like the skill and system, that is a real inspiration from Lost Arc with their combat mechanics. So each game that they actually experience is basically an amalgamation of what Koakuma is right now. And we're just trying to piece these things together with the feedback from the community. And I think that's also one thing that I would like to mention, that community, we are very community focused and without the community, I don't think we would be where we are right now, especially the feedback that we are getting as we are building the game.

18:15

Lance

We are very open to hear your feedback. We actually encourage you to try the beta test so that we will know what we can add. Sometimes the community has a lot of crazy ideas and we can even implement that within the storyline of Koakuma. And I think, yeah, from then on, basically, Koakuma grew as it is within this year alone. Back in March, actually, were initially about to do our IDO, but we have delayed that with the roadmaps.

18:47

Lance

But I think I would say it's a blessing in disguise. With the help of Boca Starter and CDFI right now, which we've been incubated with, I think we have been making a lot of headway and we are actually looking to release the next beta version of our game. So I think we are all on track. Hopefully, next year during the first quarter, you'll be able to test out the newer version with more features involved. As you mentioned, our strengths. Number one is the graphics intensive metaverse and the Immersive combat mechanics. Number two, we have the skill rune system. So this skill rune system is actually in line with not just only the player versus environment, but with the player versus player, which we are hoping to build on later, which will involve Esports. So this is more on the competitive side of gaming and PVE is more on like, you know, players who just want to farm, who just want to grind, trade, flip items, create farm materials, then sell them on the marketplace.

19:50

Lance

We cater to different types of players and we also hope to achieve that with different characters that Koakuma will be releasing. For the current version, we only have Green, who's a warrior who's more of a mealy type, so close range combat. Later on, hopefully we can release a female character which is Avik, she's an archer, so hopefully that will also appeal to a different type of players for the MMO genre. I think that's basically it to tackle on from the inception of Koakuma all the way down to where it is currently right now.

20:26

Nadja

Yeah. Lance, I just first want to comment on how amazing it is to witness this collaborative building approach in Web3 as a whole. I mean, as an example, as I said earlier, our audience asked they want to know more about Play and Earn and were immediately able to action on this and get you guys on the show as soon as possible. And this is an amazing privilege to be able to build a product for an audience by actively having the audience involved. And I think so much more in gaming because there's no point to building a game that no one's going to play. So why wait until the end and see if people are going to be interested? I love what you said about the community having these crazy ideas because it really just highlights how much, especially in Web3, we believe in doing things, building things together as opposed to doing it in silo where this traditional top down approach of I'm working on something cool and you'll see it at the end.

21:33

Nadja

22:40

Nadja

They are going to want to see what has been built and the closer you are at the time of IDO to a complete finalized launch product, the better position you're going to be in. So on that note, since we are talking about Koakuma on the Future of NFTs shows today, tell me what is unique to your approach in terms of creating NFTs, because I know you have NFT characters that are part of the game.

23:09

Lance

Yes. So actually we have not quite worked out the entire NFT plan, but for Koakuma, we are looking at almost all in game items as NFTs. So from weapons down to equipment. And of course we have the Skill Runes and materials including fossils, such as also cosmetics, which include skins, special effects and animations. But I want to talk more about the Skill Runes here, which is one of the things that is being highlighted right now in our current close beta testing version two. The Skill Runes basically will allow players to have, I think, creative ideas and ways to actually combine them with their current skills and come up with new skills. And let's say, for example, a mage could have a fireball and that fireball will be combined with a specific skill rune. That Skill rune will actually create a new fireball.

24:08

Lance

Maybe it could be a split fireball.

24:10

Lance

It could be an area of effect fireball. And this actually would play, I think, a more vital role with, let's say, raiding dungeons. So if you're facing probably tons of monsters, it has an area of effect. So I think you'd clear the dungeon faster and big waves of monsters at a single time. Or in PvP, which would be, let's say, more of if you're going to be looking for a specific rune that would stun opponents or silence them, which would give you a competitive advantage when you're doing one versus one or even three versus three PvP battles. So I think that's for now, that's what I can say about the NFTs, especially for Skill Runes, as this is something that you guys can actually test out in the current beta test of Koakuma. But for other things, I think what would be also one of the things that we're currently building on would be the guild system.

25:06

Lance

And this would involve a special type of NFT, which is what we call a Lord Mask NFT. So this Lord Mask NFT is actually it gives the owner whoever purchases that NFT, but it's mainly designed for guilds. So since we are at a medieval fantasy setting, the owner or the person who owns that NFT will be considered the lord or the ruler over that piece of land. So say, for example, we have YGG. We have Polkastarter Gaming Guild. We have Avocado Guild. So each guild will have their own land and the lord to rule over them and residents will be taxed under that land. And so players can actually freely join any guild similar to traditional games. But the only differing factor there will be the fact that lords will rule over them. There will be taxes, technology, and large scale missions involved, so there will be tournaments later on which will be more seasonal.

26:04

Lance

So it's going to be let's say, for example, YGG versus Avocado Guild. And there will also be NFT rewards as well. We're still coming up of new ways to add utility to the different NFTs. One is the current NFT sale with Ultra. So Ultra is a similar platform, a gaming distribution platform similar to Steam. And we have an ongoing NFT sale with Ultra right now with different NFT use cases with them. So you can go ahead and check out Medium for more on what specific NFTs you'd like to be getting. So there are different brackets from Rare all the way up to Legendary which have different use cases also as well. So each NFT that we will be doing with Koakuma will have different benefits, different utilities. And I would like to also mention the INO we had back in September, so that was also a different set of NFTs.

27:02

Lance

We will be releasing NFTs more on a batch per batch basis, so the NFTs that were released back in September were more on the equipment. And the NFTs that we are having with Ultra is also a different set of NFTs. We have the chromurai monster hero NFT monsters. We also have access passes as well, which is also a different type of NFT. And we are also planning to have another NFT sale. We don't have a specific date for that yet, but it should be with Skill Runes right now, so the next batches will be Skill Runes. This is sort of like a teaser, so for people that are actually tuning into this space right now, you already have early information on what we're about to do when it comes to NFTs, so I hope that gives you an edge. But that's basically it for now.

27:55

Lance

What I can say about our plan for NFTs or what our unique approach.

28:00

Nadja

Is for Koakuma sounds very exciting. I have to say. I'm not generally a big fan of the feudal system, but after hearing about this Lord Mask NFT, I have to ask where can I sign up and get one? But Lance, does this mean that the guild will then share the NFT if these NFTs are issued to guilds?

28:24

Lance

Yeah, that's actually a good question, but that NFT is actually transferable, so whoever purchases it most likely would be the guild master or a high ranking guild member. So it should be more of the manager or whoever is interested with that specific NFT. So this NFT will initially be offered to guilds. We don't just offer it to anyone. And the prices for these NFTs are completely different from the regular NFTs that we offer. From what I was aware last time, with the prices for just one Lord Mask NFT, it should be around $10,000. But I don't know the updated amount for that with the current market conditions right now. But I can't really say for sure what the definite plans are for that. It's something that we haven't quite worked out yet. We are continuing to build and partner with Guilds right now. So that is one of the things that's in our pipeline.

29:20

Lance

The main objective right now is to focus on the game development because I think once we more or less smoothen out the product, if people see a good quality game, I think the rest should follow. And that's what we're hoping to achieve here with Koakuma. And hopefully we get the support with the community and you guys can see that, especially when you try out the current beta test that we have.

29:50

Nadja

Awesome. Yes, absolutely. As I said, I am not a gamer, so I am probably not going to be the best person to explore this. But I am very keen just to understand what it is that you are actually building. So I might just go take a look. My son will have to teach me how to sign up for a game in the first place because I last played Sims. So Lance, tell me, why are NFTs such a good fit for gaming? And also I would like to know if you have some examples of the innovation that different projects are doing in the GameFi space to incorporate NFTs. Because I think it's so important, as you said earlier, it's very important for games to continue to stay relevant and especially in the space where things move so extremely fast. You mentioned earlier that the example of Axie, I mean, Axie was the darling of the gaming world and also of the Web3 world, but we see how quickly the wind changes and the tide turns.

30:51

Nadja

So in this context of GameFi projects really having to stay at the sort of being the forerunners, what is the next series of innovations going to be? Do you have some examples, maybe from Koakuma, maybe from other GameFi projects where NFTs are used in a way that really promotes gaming? I mean, we know, we talk often about why NFTs are such a good fit for gaming assets because they are transferable. You've mentioned World of Warcraft a few times. And of course, for those of us who know, I think pretty much everyone in the industry knows that the founder of Ethereum, World of Warcraft was his inspiration to create Ethereum. So there's always been a very close link between games and Web3. But in terms specifically of NFTs, why are NFTs such a good fit for gaming? Perhaps beyond just the idea of assets, of in game assets?

31:58

Lance

That's actually a very interesting question and I think there's no one answer that could actually fit that question. Because for what I think right now, not just with NFTs, but if we're just talking about games here in the Web3 space One, I think attention. That gaming projects would have to consider first is you mentioned about bridging the gap between web2 and the web3 space. And for games to actually have that effect with NFTs in the first place and what its relation with the game is, I think it's education that's very key. And what I mean by that is when you're onboarding people, when you're talking about your game, how are you going to market that to people out there? Because I think what mistake that I see quite often here in the space is that projects are getting web three influencers. And I'm not against that.

33:06

Lance

But I don't see the point that if you're trying to target the Web2 audience which does not have any knowledge about crypto in the first place, why should you get a KOL or an influencer? That's in the web3 scene when all they're going to be talking about is just the game, but they're not really going to dissect it or show what potential this web3 game has in the web2 space. That the web2 people will get converted because what they try to do is maybe I think, in a sense, that they're just trying to sell the Monetization aspect where they can earn a quick buck. They can earn this X amount of money in a week, in a day, in a month, like that. So I think that's what's bringing in most of the gamers, but it's not something that's really a sustainable model.

33:57

Lance

So I think education would be the number one step and that would lead into the second one, which I mentioned is onboarding. So as soon as the onboarding process is smooth and what I mean by that is if a web2 gamer, like, let's say for example yourself, you mentioned you're not really familiar with how to sign up, how to start playing the game, there's also the thing that you have to consider about connecting the MetaMask wallet. These are roadblocks for web2 people or people who are not aware about blockchain in the first place. So as soon as games actually cater to those challenges and once they're smooth in that process, I think the turnaround or basically people who are actually coming in from the web2 space to web3 is going to be much bigger and they're not going to have a problem about even probably.

34:45

Lance

I think the next step would be coming up with a utility that would fit the type of game that they have because it could differ. So I think for an MMO genre, for Koakuma, since that's our genre, I might be biased, but I think it fits perfectly with NFTs because there's just so much equipment, there's so much things going on in the MMO world. And we are an open world. It's a vast world. Players have a lot to use, and when it comes to NFTs, there's a ton of use cases and utilities that can be placed on each NFT. And I think that's something that games can work on, not just to entice players, but to keep them playing the games. And there's this cycle of gamers. That's why with the Web2 gaming scene, there's always going to be sort of like a seasonal thing for gamers, right.

35:44

Lance

It's not all the time that they're going to be into MMOs. They might look for a different type of genre of game. They might play that for a while, then go back to an MMO game. So it's season also. And I think that when you look closely to the data and the statistics, players will switch from one game to another, but they will still always be loyal to whatever game they choose to spend on or to dedicate their hours playing on. Right. I just want to also point out Jablo Immortal, I think there was a news back in June or July, just when it was released, one gamer spent, I think, around $100,000 just to max out his character. I mean, that's crazy for a game that's not even in the web3 space. So how much more if they were to actually create a game of that caliber and quality and bring it into the web3 space, add the NFT aspects, utility, whatnot?

36:42

Lance

There's a ton of possibilities, and I think we can see that. Like I mentioned with DigiDaigaku .Mobox, I think I'm not really familiar with how they are implementing the NFTs, but it's also, I think, one of the games that stood out. Blankos, I think it's more on a preference, I would say. So how are the NFTs being used? I get attracted to skins, special effects. I'm a League of Legends player, some people might be into cute stuff. Other people might want to buy a skin because it looks cool. It changes the special effects of maybe a skill. So these are things that can be incorporated with NFTs. So I think that's what Web2 games are also trying to see if that can be placed into their game. But I think they're also too afraid to take the risk with all the volatility that's going on in the web three space.

37:42

Lance

But there is potential. I mean, the fact that we have big companies like PayPal, we have MasterCard, we have Visa going into crypto, there is something it takes time and it takes a lot of I would say trial and error as well. We got to work together.

38:06

Nadja

Awesome. And say hello to your dog for me. What's his name?

38:10

Lance

Oh, you heard that?

38:13

Nadja

My ears are peeped for dogs and cats, so I will always hear them. I've got like, supersonic hearing when it comes to animals. Is it a he or she?

38:20

Lance

She, three Labradors. Lizo, second was Bailey and third is Snickers.

38:32

Nadja

Labradors are so loving. So, yeah, you got to love life. I can imagine.

38:39

Lance

Yeah, it's a good thing they're not noisy right now. I was hoping they wouldn't bark.

38:48

Nadja

You were mentioning earlier about how we are all just accepting now of remote work. But I think if Covert taught us anything is that real people have real lives and there are babies crying in the background and doors being shut and cooking being done and dogs barking and that's just all part of life. I want to throw you a quick curveball. If someone were to ask me this question, probably not about games, because they might answer would be easy. But if someone had to ask me this about music or books, I don't know what I would say. What is your favorite game of all time? Since you are an encyclopedia of different games. So what is your favorite game?

39:28

Lance

That's a very good question. Actually. If I had to pick one, I would say World of Warcraft because it was during my childhood and I think I stopped playing it because we reach a point that we mature and there's just games go through like updates as well. So there are new patches, there are just new versions of that game coming out. I think the last version I played of World of Warcraft was during the time of the Burning Crusade and this was before wrap of the Lich King was out. And I just thought back then that.

40:07

Lance

It was just not as good as.

40:09

Lance

What Burning Crusade is. So I think I stopped since then and I think I can say the same actually for Dota 2. I wouldn't say that it's bad at the current standing for Dota 2. Esports is really big right now, but it's just that if you would compare it to League of Legends, I'm sure that I'm going to get a lot of heat if people are in the audience who are listening, who are League of Legends fans or Dota fans. I was a Dota player before Dota 2 came in. It's just that there's so much going on in Dota 2. So let's just say I'm a novice, I'm a beginner. I want to start playing. Dota 2. There's just so much barriers. There's so many things I have to learn. I'd say the barrier to entry for League of Legends is so simple that almost anyone can play it.

40:55

Lance

And I think if you would even look at the socials, just the storyline, the content that is being created for League of Legends, it's quite different with Dota 2. I would say they have more of a fan base, user base. There's even this Star Guardian storyline that they're developing with Riot. So I think it's also different. I'm not hating on Dota 2. I love Dota 2.

41:17

Lance

It's just different with League of Legends.

41:19

Lance

So I'm just drawing a comparison there. But yeah, World of Warcraft.

41:24

Nadja

Alright, well, I happen to know that one. So I'm giving myself a pat on the shoulder for knowing what you're talking about. So Lance, speaking of this whole idea of first it was play to earn and now the GameFi industry has changed its self-identity from play to earn to play and earn. So why is this and what implications does this change in identity have for the future of gaming in the space? Because as we know with Axie Infinity there was a lot of talk about the long term unsustainability for example, of the Tokenomics. So what is the implications for the industry going forward? Because I think you said earlier something that's very important touch on this idea that many people sell only the monetization aspect. So we are all talking about the hype and the gains and what you can get out of it.

42:24

Nadja

Now, the beauty of web3 is there's this inherent respect for who people are and what they have. What I mean by this, you said earlier, if you are spending thousands of dollars on your game, why do it in web2 when you can do it in web3? If you are spending endless amounts of hours on games, why not get something out of it? I mean, AdLunam has a similar premise. We are saying if you are engaging in web3 already, why not use that engagement that you already have and get rewarded for it? So we do have this inherent respect for people's time, people's attention. But at the same time, the industry is so focused just on the monetization aspect. And the problem is that every time, as now where there's, for example, a bear market, everyone runs away and go focus their attention elsewhere.

43:18

Nadja

Because right now there's no quick, easy buck to be made. So what do you think in terms of this idea that before were all okay play to earn and it was all about the earning now this change play and earn which Koakuma also you name yourself a play and earn game as well, what is this going to mean for the future of the GameFi industry?

43:43

Lance

Well, that's a good question and I would have to say that with the changes that's happening right now, not just in game five but web3 as a whole is that I think it's more of striking a balance. And you mentioned about tokenomics and I think with Axie it's very tricky. We see this with dual Tokenomics or with other Tokens, even three or four Tokens within the system or economies that games are creating. It's very tricky and I think there has to be like a balance not just only with the monetization aspect but more of what the players are getting in return as well. I would say I don't know how many times we've had to reiterate or revise our Tokenomics as well because we had to also match the current market. We also have to sometimes there's just loopholes, another person can actually spot this and I think that's also something that we're very grateful with.

44:58

Lance

We're speaking to people over at CeDeFi who's very good when it comes tokenomics expert with the advisors that we're getting from poker starters. Walt, it's just we're getting a lot of amazing support from them and it has helped us revise reiterate on what we currently have. Not just within the in game tokenomics, the design as well, but the game as a whole. So that players will feel like they're fairly rewarded. Because sometimes with Gacha games, players will continue to put in money as soon as they can see that they're getting something in return. And that means despite market conditions, right? Because even at this time we see people spending on games still, whether it gives them something in return or not. So I think that's more of like an emotional aspect, a psychological aspect that naturally that gamers will get if they just feel like they're fairly being compensated.

46:02

Lance

That's why games will always have to go through updates, patches, even new events. They will always have to come up with new ways to engage the community. And once the game actually stops that, I think players would easily notice that. So I think we can even see that with a lot of games right now. I just want to point out Kingdom Hearts, we have Final Fantasy, they are still big right now. GTA, there are some games that are still being alive back probably 10, 20 years ago that are still, I would say not so relevant now, but at least they're still alive, they're not dead or they're not out of the scene yet. But that says a lot for whoever's coming up with the ideas for the game. Not just events, not just the marketing, but basically to keep the users coming back. I think that's also something that with Steam you see hours and hours being logged in by players.

47:09

Lance

48:04

Lance

Once they see that it's about tank, they liquidate their assets, transfer into another potential Web3 game. That's looking good then I'm not going to say that it's not happening, but it really is. I've seen this with Mirror Four, I've seen it with the Galaxy. After Axie was like having a low period, they immediately jumped into another game. Liquidated assets moved into another. So you're just flipping their assets just to get a quick buck. And it's not good for everyone in the space, actually. So I think it has to be a combined effort. And I think I'm seeing that more with the current scene of a lot of gaming projects right now, just even talking with them, finding co-marketing aspects of how we can help promote each other, how we can utilize our communities and create more information about the web3 space and about gaming.

49:04

Lance

Because Koakuma is an MMO, there are also other games out there who have a different approach and they have a different genre of game, which is also good that we can introduce to our Community as well, because not all the time, like I said before, are they going to be interested in an MMO genre? I play different games. I play more. I play more than ten games at a time. I'm just that type of gamer. Some others might just play three games at a time, so I think it would vary, but it's really uncertain. But for sure they really have to consider the gamers because without them, I think they won't have those sales, they won't have the lifeblood and the interaction of the community. Once you have that loyal player base, I think monetization the money will just follow.

49:50

Nadja

Yeah, beautiful way to end off that question and just to say, I thought I was a gamer, baby, but after listening to you playing ten games at a time, I realized I'm not even a gaming embryo, so I've played probably one game in my whole life. So I definitely have some catching up to do. Maybe Koakuma can help me do that. So, Lance, I'm very mindful of time. Do you have a few minutes to spend extra? I would like to just quickly get through my two final questions and then do at least one question from the audience. Are we good to go for that or do you need to be somewhere else?

50:21

Lance

Sure. No, I'm good.

50:22

Nadja

We've been talking a lot about games specifically, but I want to zoom out a little bit to NFTs as a whole. What do you think? What is the Future of NFTs and how is it going to evolve from what we've been seeing so far? Gaming is of course a huge use case for NFTs because of the reasons that we've been talking about. But what is your personal view on the future of this technology and the possibilities it has?

50:56

Lance

I think the future of NFTs, I would summarize it into three points. Number one is basically, first and foremost the utility and what it has to offer whoever is purchasing the NFT or holding it. Number two is I think one most recent thing that's actually happening, I'm not sure if it was with OpenSea but royalties. This is more on the creative side for artists. So I think that's also changing a scene because I think it's also an additional part for every sale that is being made with a specific NFT. Whoever benefits from that sale, I think that's also going to determine how NFTs are going to be later on. So that's the second point and I think third and basically just the ownership and bragging rights, I would say to wrap it all up. So I think with these three, I'd say added pillars for the NFTs it's going to guide or mainly set the direction for what it is going to be later on.

51:58

Lance

I think Mark Cuban I just like to name one shark in the Shark Tank series who believes in crypto very much. I'm also following a lot the talks not just with Elon Musk takeover on Twitter, but there's a lot of potential that's going on with NFTs and there's negative, there's positive, but I think just give it time and there should be something sensible that's going to be happening later on. It's just that right now we may be skeptical about it, they're probably working on it and we need to understand what these implications are with the current market and how it's going to play a role in specifics, specific projects, not just in GameFi, but in Web3 as a whole.

52:46

Nadja

Absolutely. And as we said earlier, curiosity leads to innovation. At the end of the day, NFTs are a technology and everything that we know about it are all just use cases. So who knows what is going to happen in future. We are definitely all going to be here watching and creating what is to come. So Lance, final question before I get into the Q and A, I see I have a list of questions already. But audience, if you have a burning desire to ask Lance a question, do put in a speaker request. So Lance, final question. What is your philosophy about Web3 changing lives?

53:29

Lance

I think it's mainly giving everyone an equal opportunity to have a seat at the table. Despite your background, despite where you are right now. I think we have seen that with a lot of creators, not just only for artists. I would like to point out because I think with Creatives right now with Web3, I see that a lot of people, especially those animators, artists, are being fairly compensated or even more they weren't in the radar in the first place. And I would also like to mention developers who are behind the scenes, working on the blockchain, the systems. These are some things that we don't really notice. You mentioned about curiosity and I think that's what I would also like to point out. My views and opinions may not be in line with some people out there. And I'm okay with that. And I don't claim that I know everything about NFTs and I think this is also the great thing about these spaces is that as I share my ideas, I think I'm really open to receiving some other point of views out there because it helps open up a new world of possibilities.

54:41

Lance

And I think these amazing ideas actually, it's funny because I was just talking to a friend just a few hours back and he started his business, his digital marketing agency, just because he was just talking with a friend, they were coming up with ideas and something might just start there. You got crazy ideas when you're having these meaningful conversations with others and who knows what might come up.

55:06

Nadja

Beautiful. I asked you earlier about what innovations there are in NFTs and I love your answer where you focused on education and onboarding because I think this is really the key to all of this is we have curiosity on the one end and we have these pioneers. We have people going out there, as you mentioned, giving a shout out to the developers, which very few of us in the space actually talk about because we are looking at what's in the window. If you go window shopping and you see all of these amazing things being sold there, but not giving a thought to people who put those things there in the first place. So we have all of this innovation and the building happening in the space, but unless, as you say, we have conversations like this, unless we put in the time to educate people and ourselves at the same time.

56:02

Nadja

I really was just so happy at the way you approach the questions, in the sense that you would say, well, we don't have that figured out yet and we are still working on this and this changes all the time. And this, I think, is the kind of honesty and transparency that we need in this space because we all come from industries where you only see what's in the window. You go window shopping and all the nice stuff is displayed out front, but who knows what's happening in the back. And I think in this industry, apart from this, as you say, just really beautiful opportunity to give everyone a seat at the table, no matter who you are, no matter where you come from, but also to have this honesty and transparency and authenticity to say, look guys, we are all in this together. We are all figuring it out.

56:50

Nadja

You are coming on the journey with me, but I'm not quite sure I'm doing this the right way. This is, I think, one of the most privileged things about being in the space. But on that note, especially because today's topic was asked for by the audience, I want to make sure that I get at least one question in. So let me quickly see, I'm just going to scroll down and see which question catches my eye first. All right, so gaming sounds simple as a player, but when you speak about it, there are many points to consider what, according to you, makes a great game. Thanks, Joel. So I'm not sure if this refers to Web3 games or just games in general, but Lance, as someone who's building part of the team that's building a game, what makes a great game?

57:48

Lance

Yeah, that's actually a good question and thank you so much. Whoever asked the question, I would say it's not just only one answer because like you said, there's just a lot to consider. But I think if I would not answer this, let's just say that I'm not a gamer and if I were to just be introduced to a new game, it would vary depending on the type of person you are. Because of course, we have introverts, we have extroverts, and we have people who prefer probably they like fighting scenes. Others would like to follow the storyline. So I think that is on a case to case basis, but I would say that for me, I would also look into the fighting mechanics because I'm more of a competitive player. So in terms of strategy, how are the skills being implemented? Since we're also looking to target Esports for Koakuma, I'm going to be looking at how fair the system is, how the leaderboards are going to be computed.

58:51

Lance

That's how I would determine if that game is something of quality for me. And I would also relate this to something that's not in Web3, which is League of Legends. So League of Legends actually followed it ever since I was probably in grade school all the way up to now. And it has changed a lot. Not just in graphics, not just with the amount of characters that are playable, but with the systems, how each character is using a percentage skill. They always have to update that and make it in a way that it is balanced. Because once players start to feel like it's a pay to win, it's imbalanced. Because of the skill of this specific character, that's when you start losing players lose interest because they feel that they're being cheated, right? So I think it would vary, but it's very important to consider the game's system like skills combat, how the game is being played, but it would vary depending on the genre.

59:55

Lance

So let's say if it's more of, let's say an Action or an FPS type of game like Counterstrike, that's also going to be a different thing that you're going to be considering. Maybe it's like Valorant as well. I don't know if guns are going to be critical there because that's one of the equipment that are mostly used. So for that specific type of gamer, it's also going to be something that's going to take different before them as opposed to an MMO genre. So I hope that answers your question. It's quite general or vague, but yeah.

Nadja

Thanks, Lance. And then I have one more question that I'm quickly going to sneak in. I have here a question about your game itself. What are the benefits that lords owning land will have? Would they earn NFTs or tokens?

Lance

Yes, so about that. Right now, as I mentioned, it's still in the works, but for lords, they will be taxing the residents, so the taxes is what the lord will be earning. And this is something that will be used to develop each land and there will be tokens also involved. There is no specific amount to that yet because we're also actually working on a guild system and we've partnered with Infinity Force for the guild management system. So they're also one of our partners who will be helping us create that guild management system for us. And with that being mentioned, we are also looking at different guilds because different guilds will be able to have different banners, different colors, different logos that will set each guild apart and each land apart. So I think this is going to be more on cosmetics that will give, I think, a colorful and unique approach for each type of land and guild.

Lance

But that's going to be how it is for now.

Nadja

All right, well, awesome. Exciting stuff coming up, but unfortunately, another hour plus ten minutes have come and gone. So Lance, thank you so much for the perspectives and the insights you shared with us today. I really look forward to seeing what's to come for Koakuma, how can listeners stay up to date with what it is you're building?

Lance

Yes, thank you again Nadja, thank you for having us over and I would recommend that you guys join our discord. Follow us on Twitter, make sure you tick the notification bell as well. We have our articles on Medium as well regarding specifics on NFTs, game releases and other things for the mechanics for NFTs and what their roles and benefits are. So I suggest you follow us on Medium as well. And yeah, thank you so much guys, for tuning in. Apologies on the plus eleven minutes. Now, Nadja, you mentioned about respecting time. I really respect your guys’ time. Thank you for being here, for listening to me, for having me over and talking about Koakuma.

Nadja

Lance, thank you so much and especially for taking time out of your end of day to come talk to us. It's been absolutely lovely having you on and of course to our favorite community in the whole world wide world AdLunamites. We love you. Thank you for always gifting us an hour of your time plus eleven minutes. We hope that you enjoy spending it with our amazing guests each week because we simply love being here with you. So until next time, catch you again next week for another episode of The Future of NFTs brought to you by AdLunam. Cheers, guys. And Lance, please go to bed. It's late, and you have dropped so many nuggets of wisdom today that your brain needs to rest. So I'll catch you soon.

Lance

Thank you, Nadja. Have a good one. Bye, everyone. Bye, guys. Take care.