In this episode of the Future Proof HR podcast, Thomas Kunjappu sits down with Sarah Chandler, VP of HR at Hensley Beverage Company, to talk about what it takes to keep HR high touch as AI changes the way work gets done.

Sarah shares why she sees HR as both a people function and a process function. For her, AI is not a replacement for the human side of HR. It is an efficiency expert that can help HR teams move faster on reporting, reminders, documentation, communication, and analytics so people leaders can spend more time on the moments that require judgment, trust, and connection.

The conversation covers how HR leaders can guide AI adoption across a workforce with different communication preferences, different levels of trust, and five generations working at the same time. Sarah explains why fear around AI cannot be dismissed, why early adopters still need guardrails, and why managers remain central to performance conversations, employee trust, and culture.

Sarah also shares practical examples from a blue-collar, 24/7 environment, including AI-supported employee complaint documentation, the limits of automated exit surveys, and why routing decisions still need human knowledge of stores, competitors, timing, and local context. The episode is a grounded look at what HR should automate, what it should protect, and how leaders can help employees think more intentionally about what parts of their work should stay human.

Topics Discussed:

• Why HR needs both people connection and process discipline
• How AI can act as the efficiency expert so HR can stay focused on people's work
• Why analytics, reminders, documentation, and reports are strong AI use cases for HR teams
• How HR can train employees to use AI safely while protecting confidential employee data
• Why do five generations in the workplace create different reactions to AI adoption
• How AI can amplify existing communication issues between leaders and employees
• Why managers still need human judgment in performance conversations
• What Sarah refuses to outsource to AI, including high-value exit and stay interviews
• How written complaint intake can save time, improve documentation, and reduce emotional escalation
• Why blue-collar operations still need human context even when AI can optimize routes
• How employees can assess what parts of their job should be automated and what should stay uniquely human

If you are an HR leader trying to use AI without losing trust, judgment, or human connection, this episode offers a practical look at how to rebalance the work of HR around the moments that matter most.

Additional Resources:

• Cleary's AI-powered HR Chatbot
• Future Proof HR Community
• Connect with Sarah Chandler on LinkedIn

We

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Actually have a system where we

put it in writing and it's so

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much better for a lot of reasons.

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One

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it's instant documentation

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aI is helpful in that sense because

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we just need it to be

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more streamlined

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more efficient

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more automated

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more effective

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can you imagine if AI did

your performance review?

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It would feel so impersonal

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as more and more things

get automated, I think the

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HUMAN CONNECTION

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that's just gonna be

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THE GOLD STANDARD

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Thomas Kunjappu: They keep

telling us that it's all over.

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For HR, the age of AI is upon

us, and that means HR should

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be prepared to be decimated.

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We reject that message.

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The future of HR won't be handed to us.

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Instead, it'll be defined by those

ready to experiment, adopt, and adapt.

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Future Proof HR invites these builders to

share what they're trying, how it's going,

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what they've learned, and what's next.

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We are committed to arming HR

with the AI insights to not

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just survive, but to thrive.

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Hello and welcome to the Future Proof

HR podcast, where we explore how

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forward-thinking HR leaders are preparing

for disruption and redefining what it

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means to lead people in a changing world.

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I'm your host, Thomas Kunjappu.

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Today's guest is Sarah Chandler,

the VP of HR at Hensley Beverage

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Company, and a highly influential

leader in people and culture.

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Sarah is a certified strategic HR

leader, known for balancing employee and

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business needs to elevate the employee

experience while driving results.

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She's also a coach at heart with a growth

mindset built around a simple idea.

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Every conversation is a

chance for development today.

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We'll talk about what it means

to stay high touch in HR while

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adopting ai, especially in a blue

collar 24 7 environment where trust,

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access, and communication matter.

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So as with all of your conversations, I

hope this one is a chance for development.

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Sarah, welcome to the podcast.

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Sarah Chandler: Thank you so much.

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I'm really thrilled to be here.

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Thomas Kunjappu: So let's

talk about your superpower.

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We're talking about this beforehand.

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Your superpower might be the

high touch people element.

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Tell me a little bit more about that.

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Sarah Chandler: Okay, so I love to

tell people, if you have a lot of

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H, you need a little less R in hr.

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So

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remembering that I'm human, you're human.

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We're here together to make a connection.

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I think that's really what makes

it vibrant in the workplace.

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So I'm all about the connection.

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I wanna have a conversation that is gonna

move us to someplace better and different.

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And that's not always gonna

have the outcome, it might be a

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negative outcome, but it's gonna

be an important conversation.

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And, that's what I do.

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Thomas Kunjappu: I think that's

part like putting in broad strokes,

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but for the whole function, that

is probably relatively speaking,

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the people who get attracted to the

function of HR tend to have that.

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Would you say.

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Sarah Chandler: True.

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And I will tell you at parties and

such, people will say, oh, I kn

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you know, you're so perfect for

hr, you're such a people person.

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And I always pull back and say,

oh, yeah I am a people person,

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but I'm also about process.

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So together, those two things,

like I love efficiency and I love

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people, and people are not robots.

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So how do we maximize that

opportunity to get the most

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talent out of people knowing that?

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We have good days and bad days and

sometimes our vibrancy is turned

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up and sometimes it's muted.

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And how do we work in that dynamic

in a workplace where everybody's

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showing up on different days, right?

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Good thing we don't all show up.

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Having a bad day on the same

day, that would not look good.

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But when we focus on the connection

piece of it and the people part,

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we're also thinking about how do we

move the needle for business, right?

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How do we optimize, how do we get

the most out of the people that

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are showing up at work every day?

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Which is where, efficiency comes in.

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Thomas Kunjappu: It's interesting, not

that you push back, but you add it to the

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concept of not just being a people person,

but there's a lot more to it than that.

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Maybe I'm building a straw man here, but.

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I feel like there are people

who identify with the people

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side of everything being in hr.

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But then when you're talking

about efficiency or business or

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process optimization, it feels

it doesn't speak to really what

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they want to be doing day to day.

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Is that, I dunno, is that true or is

there any do you see there's a balance

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between the two or actually you could

disagree completely with what I said.

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Actually.

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This is not really something

where people tend to have kind

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of both sides of this together.

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Sarah Chandler: Think about it like this.

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HR has, there's a whole life

cycle to an employee, right?

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We have the candidate experience,

the onboarding, they come on board.

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Then we're performance management, right?

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There's transfers, promotion, succession

development, all these things.

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And you have the offboarding where

we exit So there's all these points

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in the lifecycle that HR hits and

they're really important moments.

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Speaking to the HR professional,

we have different strengths.

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So some HR professionals

are more towards compliance.

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They might really speak to the

benefits world or to the comp world

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or to risk management, or, really

wanna focus on leaves of absence and

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handling people when circumstances

and their personal life change.

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And so then it changes at work as well.

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HR as a function is dynamic and there's

different points on the lifecycle

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that speak to different strengths.

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So yes, there's gonna be people

that wanna be the HR party planners.

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They're just like, I just wanna

be with the people, I just wanna

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do rewards and recognition.

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I just wanna do when we do raises

and promotions and anniversaries

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and milestones and, that's all gonna

be great because it's definitely.

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Boosting morale,

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driving engagement, reinforcing culture.

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So we absolutely need that.

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But there's also the backend

of hr, because we're the

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keeper of all the data, right?

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All the analytics that speak to what's

happening in the workforce are, we're

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the safeguards of that data, right?

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So we have to be able to not only

spit that data back to leaders,

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but interpret it, tell the story.

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What does it mean?

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What does this turnover, down,

uptick or downtick mean, right?

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What's the story behind it?

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So there's a compliance then too.

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So there's people in HR that

are more very black and white,

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maybe more police driven, right?

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You've heard hr, sometimes they're the

party planners or the police, so there

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are HR professionals that are more, more

black and white and they want, we're

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gonna do the guardrails really well.

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We're gonna set the handbook in motion.

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We're gonna check every policy.

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We're gonna make sure there's

compliance with the policy.

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We're gonna make sure that the, the

performance improvement plans have three

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steps to them and a time mark on 'em.

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They're the ones that are rolling out

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processes to help improve.

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Kind of the mechanics of work, right?

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Like the work we do is important,

but the way that we work is also

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important, and HR will speak to that.

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So when you're talking about

an HR professional who's do I

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wanna be a subject matter expert

or do I wanna be a generalist?

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That there's a lot of room in the

HR prof profession for the people

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that are more people driven.

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And then I, I have people on my

team that are like, I don't like

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people, I just wanna sit behind.

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I just let me do the reports, let

me be the HRIS expert and do the

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analytics and they soar in that space.

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So there, there is variety

even within the HR profession.

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Thomas Kunjappu: That's a great response.

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We have some breadcrumbs here.

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I wanna come back to this about how

the HR profession itself is evolving

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because you're making this case

for there's space for heterogeneous

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skill sets and, proclivities.

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But before we talk about that, let's

talk about, how we're impacting the

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organizations wr at large and managing

change and, people, whether they're

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on their good days or bad days.

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And doing that at scale is a big

piece of what's what we're doing here.

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Within that context, tell me how

in your environment you are seeing

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the rise of AI coming into change,

how people are showing up and

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feeling, and even what they're doing.

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Sarah Chandler: Thank you.

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I, so along the lines of what

I was talking about, all the

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nuances to the HR profession.

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There are certain pieces of

it, like the analytics that

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really can be automated, right?

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HR is set up nicely to

partner with AI, right?

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So if AI can be the efficiency expert,

it allows me to be the people expert,

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whereas before I was doing both.

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So now some of the things that took

me weeks to do AI can do in minutes.

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So I can turn over some of

that responsibility to ai.

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My team can as well, so we can have

more automated reports, more automatic

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notifications, rather than me making a

phone call or a text message to a leader.

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We're looking to have these things

automatically come out as reminder

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notices, right from our HRIS system.

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So there's things that AI can do for me,

that I used to do myself and my team.

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So it's gonna lessen the load so

that we can do the things that I

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think people do better than ai.

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So much better making decisions and.

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Reviewing situations that are

nuanced and complex and, conflict

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resolution performance management.

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Can you imagine if AI did

your performance review?

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It would feel so impersonal.

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It would feel so robotic.

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People sense that they crave authenticity

and, gone are the days when you could

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just give somebody a rating and say,

you meet expectations like that doesn't

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mean anything to anyone anymore.

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You have to dive into it.

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And the feedback needs to be

specific and to the person and to the

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situation in order to drive change.

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And we know that aI is as good

as the input that we give it.

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So we can give it, that it can structure

a message, it can structure a plan, it

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can structure a process, but we're still

gonna be required to make sense of it.

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Right to make sense of it and to be able

to deliver it in a way that's meaningful.

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We don't wanna lose the connection.

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That's where I was talking about.

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I pride myself in being high touch.

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I don't wanna be HR in the high

tower that's just rolling out

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policies that are tone deaf to the

people that are in the trenches.

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We wanna have this reciprocal

relationship where we're getting

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feedback from people that are.

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And not just people, not just

the employees, but the leaders.

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The leaders that are applying the policies

we put in place, they give us feedback

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and we've gotta be able to be nimble and

flexible and iterate when we need to.

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And all of that requires good judgment and

empathy and ethical, critical thinking.

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And all of that is

gonna just get, I think.

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More stronger in the world of ai, right?

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Those skills are gonna be even more so

valuable in the world of AI because as

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more and more things get automated, I

think the human connection is, that's

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just gonna be the gold standard.

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Thomas Kunjappu: So if that is the a lot

of the work that's gonna be demanded of

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a great future-proof HR team is gonna

be around like connecting with your

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workforce, with your manager, with your

employees and do you think that compared

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to what most HR teams are doing their

day-to-day today, do you think, do

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you imagine that the actual hours that

you're spending in a day are gonna be.

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Significantly different in a few years

in how that time is allocated versus now.

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Sarah Chandler: I think about

how different my day is.

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This year compared to even last

year or the year or five years ago.

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Oh my gosh.

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Yes, the answer is yes.

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Like the world of work

is changing so rapidly.

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We're struggling to keep up.

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I think with AI adoption and, with

generative, AI on the brink, we can't keep

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up with the compliance or the training.

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And that's really where our talent,

I think, is gonna be called upon.

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We need you to help us understand like

how do we train people to properly

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use AI safely without, giving out

trade secrets or private information.

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Especially in the HR world where

everything is based on confidentiality.

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Like we really need to be safeguards

and protect our employee data.

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So we have to train our people how

to use ai, where are the guardrails

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and streamline utilization, right?

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This is where it's appropriate.

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This is where it's not the

do's and don'ts, right?

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Thomas Kunjappu: Going back to HR

being the police, except for now,

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like AI policy, but that's part

of what the function is, right.

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Sarah Chandler: it's part of it.

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Thomas Kunjappu: observed that there

are a lot of organizations where

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AI usage is happening across, every

function in operations and sales and

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marketing, including in like in hr.

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And that role that you're talking about

enabler, is it's needed, but it's maybe

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not necessarily being filled by hr, right?

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Maybe it's happening at the functional

level or even the individual

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level in a lot of organizations.

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Is that.

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Are you just imagining that as an

extension of, learning and development

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that you know as a subdepartment, if you

will, or as a subfunction of what HR does

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or given the nature of ai, is it something

fundamentally or foundationally different?

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Sarah Chandler: That's a great question.

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I do think.

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I do think you're right.

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I think people are sharing with

one another, and so again, this

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is where the human connection

really is valuable, right?

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People trust.

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Who they trust.

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And if the person that they trust and

respect and work with every day is saying,

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Hey, let me show you how I'm using ai.

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That's where the adoption is coming in.

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And the adoption is catching fire

in workplaces because like-minded

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individuals who trust each other already

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are Sharing.

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how they're doing things.

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So you're right, it's not an,

it's not merely an HR function.

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We are, inserting ourself so

that we can make sure that

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the AI usage is appropriate.

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I guess but again, we are

racing to keep up racing.

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I will also mention, I think it's

really important that, you know

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we're at a time in US history, right?

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We have five generations in

the workplace at the same time.

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So think about change management.

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From the perspective of five

different generations now add

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the complexity of ai, right?

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So there, there's great opportunity

for us to be influential.

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And just like you're hearing

in your personal life, there

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are mixed feelings about ai.

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It can get.

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Really heated really fast.

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It's a charged topic.

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There are people that are definitely

more fear based around it.

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Where are we going?

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We're losing ourselves.

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AI doesn't have a soul or a conscience.

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Guess who else doesn't have

a soul or a conscience?

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A company, the company doesn't have

a soul or a conscience either, right?

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That's one of the things.

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Hr we're the conscience

of the company, right?

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So the same thing with ai.

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Like as long as there's a person

overseeing and holding on to the part

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that is human I'm gonna direct it.

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I'm not gonna use AI to make decisions.

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It's gonna give me information

so I can make better decisions.

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As long as we hold onto that,

we won't lose ourselves.

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But you can't just like in change

management, you can't dismiss fear or

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say it's coming from an older generation

who has trouble with technology anyway.

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Thomas Kunjappu: Ignore it and

steamroll right to the next step of,

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Sarah Chandler: Oh, you're wrong.

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No, you have to address it.

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We have to address it.

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So we have to address the fears.

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Then we have the early adopters who

are just so excited, so rambunctious,

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they're just off and running, and so

how do we bridle them, bring them in

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and help them, stay within the confines

that's appropriate for the company.

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So it's different.

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It's dynamic.

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Thomas Kunjappu: Yeah I wanted to go

deeper on this because it's dynamic

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and it's fast pace is, the change feels

dizzying almost to a lot of people

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Sarah Chandler: Yeah.

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Thomas Kunjappu: You mentioned.

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There's, it's almost like the

natural state of things is, if not

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chaos, at least divergence, right?

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So you have five generations of the

workforce different perspectives

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and beliefs on just, value systems

and these are things that you're

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trying to bring together, right?

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As an HR team with the values of

the company, organization, but also.

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Some people who are just afraid of and

feel like AI should, not just afraid

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of, they feel like principally maybe

even against using it versus for certain

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things at work and versus others who

are just going nuts and loving it and

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experimenting and going across the board.

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So there's just like a

lot of divergence, right?

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Or just a lot along with uncertainty

that like needs to be managed.

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And it gets compounded

with feelings, which you

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Sarah Chandler: We're emotional creatures.

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Thomas Kunjappu: So tell me a

little bit more tactically then,

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or practically as an HR function.

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How do you or how have you corralled

slash seen your role in, bringing

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convergence versus divergence?

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Sarah Chandler: That's a great,

yeah, I like the convergence.

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So I'm gonna back it way up and

just tell you like, my underlying

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philosophy is that I am supposed to

service the leaders, and I want the

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leaders to service the employees.

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So I see HR as it's so much more

meaningful when a leader goes to their

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employee, Hey, you did a good job.

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Or, Hey, you did a terrible job and

we need to get you on back on track.

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Like those important conversations

mean so much more coming from the

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direct supervisor than they do hr.

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So I see myself as behind the

scenes making the leaders better.

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With the AI adoption, what's happening?

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It's like I, I wanna train quickly, train

the trainers, get leaders up to speed on

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what's happening in our workplace with AI

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and understanding that one of the

key things like the sensitive points

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that it's touching is communication.

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So people have different communication

preferences and this is where

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the generations in the workplace.

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Here's a practical example.

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So we know that some people

would prefer text only.

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They don't ever wanna phone call.

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Don't call me ever.

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I don't wanna talk to you.

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I wanna just read it, respond, move on.

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It's very similar.

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There are some people that are not at

all bothered by receiving a message

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that has clearly been AI tailored.

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Like it's come from ai, it

doesn't bother 'em a lot at all.

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And in fact, they might even say,

I'm impressed they used AI on that.

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Whereas somebody else

takes that insultingly

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You're not sending me a personal message.

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So again, this goes way, way back to.

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Understanding others, how do people

wanna be communicated to and with?

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How do you wanna hear bad news?

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How do you wanna hear good news?

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How often do you wanna check in with me?

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What types of things require

an in-person meeting?

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What can be a virtual meeting?

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What could be an email?

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How many meetings have you gone to?

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That could have just been an email, right?

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So I think with the AI being layered

on top it's like a, a magnifying glass.

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So if we already have communication issues

and differences this AI adoption piece

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is like amplifying all of that, right?

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So it's an opportunity for us to use AI

as the vehicle to say, Hey, what type of

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communication and when, how do you know?

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Do you know your customer?

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I think if the leader is my customer

and the employee should be the leader's

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customer, so you gotta know your customer.

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We gotta know the audience, what is

the best way to communicate with them,

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and then what is the best way to use

AI in, in our working relationship?

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Does that answer that question?

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Thomas Kunjappu: Yeah.

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Because you're just talking about

at a cultural level, there are a

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lot of factors, but this example

being communication where the

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default expectation is like unclear.

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The other example that comes

to mind is a return to office

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and just hybrid work, right?

387

So in 2019, you wouldn't have

to put on a job description.

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In office Monday to Friday, nine to five.

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That's assumed.

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Now you have to, because of divergence,

you have to say what this particular thing

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is and how you communicate in general.

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And also now, specifically with

AI layered in is another one of

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those nuances where expectations

can be wide, wildly different.

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So again, an opportunity,

that's the way to phrase it for,

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Sarah Chandler: an opportunity, and I

actually use COVID in the AI adoption

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conversation because I say to leaders,

especially leaders that may be resistant,

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I say, we just went through this.

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We know we, we have all.

399

Looked at work differently as a

result of the pandemic, right?

400

We are used to rethinking roles.

401

So now let's rethink the role.

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Where can we apply AI to this position

to add efficiencies and really

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accentuate the human part of the role.

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For me in hr, like I wanna stay high

touch, I wanna be connected, and I

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wanna continue to preach to leaders

to be connected to their people.

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Now, that doesn't mean.

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You can't use AI for connection,

you can, but like how do we turn up

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the vibrancy of when we are actually

making that human to human connection?

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Thomas Kunjappu: This has been

a fantastic conversation so far.

410

If you haven't already done so,

make sure to join our community.

411

We are building a network of the

most forward-thinking, HR and

412

people, operational professionals

who are defining the future.

413

I will personally be sharing

news and ideas around how we

414

can all thrive in the age of AI.

415

You can find it at go cleary.com/cleary

416

community.

417

Now back to the show.

418

It's interesting, so your thesis

it's not just even about the HR team,

419

but also even about managers, right?

420

In terms of the that like divide

between connection versus efficiency.

421

I think what would be interesting is to

draw out some of the boundaries with some

422

use cases around, when it makes sense

to go in with a human touch versus what

423

would make sense for like efficiency.

424

So we're talking all about

managers and manager enablement.

425

We have a situation where the manager's

having a career conversation or

426

usually would, or like a performance

conversation, let's call it even.

427

And where in that process with

this high touch or human centric

428

philosophy, would you still be open

to enabling the manager with ai?

429

Sarah Chandler: So I think the

AI is useful in the measurement

430

of the performance data.

431

So typically in the workplace,

we can measure performance.

432

Right now, there are intangibles that

are harder to measure, and that's

433

where I feel like the leadership

skills really get highlighted, right?

434

People love to say, oh,

they're just not a good fit.

435

What does that mean?

436

When we dig into that I usually try

to ask a lot of probing questions to

437

get very curious to help managers.

438

Put words to what that gut feeling

is, and sometimes it's based on

439

bias, which we have to unpack

and help the leader grow out of.

440

But sometimes it's based on really

good instincts and experience from

441

being in the workplace and just pick.

442

And so our job is to kinda help

them whereas that's not something

443

AI's ever gonna replace in hr.

444

Like HR as the trusted advisor and the

coach and asking the right questions.

445

Helping leaders see, it is

really important to understand

446

why you want an employee to do

what you're asking them to do.

447

'cause if you can't demonstrate the

business reason, people will make up a

448

story in their head and it's usually.

449

Not a good one.

450

And it could even be based

on something that's illegal,

451

like bias or discrimination.

452

So it is on us it's a really good idea

for us to know what the business reason

453

is before we mandate any kind of behavior.

454

So I help leaders get there.

455

Understand it so they can have a

better connection with the employee.

456

I don't know that AI is

gonna replace that for me.

457

And then with that manager.

458

Yeah, they might be able to run some

reports and pull some analytics and

459

even some predictive analytics that

say, Hey, based on this, and this,

460

we think this is where you're going.

461

And this may not be the

trajectory of the career you want.

462

Certainly not what we want for you.

463

We think you have greater

potential over here.

464

So again, we can use AI to enhance.

465

The conversation, but it's really

gonna be that manager's insight

466

and their understanding that's

gonna make a difference in that

467

particular employee conversation.

468

Doing that at scale is where

it gets really tricky, right?

469

So how many times can you

have this conversation, right?

470

And is it always gonna be one-on-one?

471

Is it gonna be in a meeting?

472

If it's a message that can go to a group,

you can use AI to formulate the data, the

473

presentation, the outline, all of that.

474

But you're still the one delivering.

475

Thomas Kunjappu: But what if we went

a step further where we are taking

476

your brain and structured way of

thinking, the questions you might ask

477

the manager, and that's put into some

kind of AI bot to that the manager

478

can privately have a conversation.

479

Sarah Chandler: being built.

480

Thomas Kunjappu: Oh, is that right?

481

Sarah Chandler: Oh, I'm just saying.

482

I'm,

483

surely don't you

484

think, it's just generative

AI is moving so quickly.

485

Yeah.

486

Thomas Kunjappu: But then if that kind of

exists, then the reason I bring that out

487

is I'm sure there's companies that are

doing that like today just to some degree.

488

And it'll get better and there will be.

489

I just, there'll be nuances which

still maybe are not being able to

490

express where you actually need

the expert with experience that

491

you wanna talk to as a manager.

492

That's probably like my understanding,

but I just wanted to push this further.

493

So as in terms of really

getting to that core of the

494

what it is to be human-centric.

495

So in taking this example

of a performance management

496

conversation 'cause I can imagine a.

497

With significant prompting a manager

who is motivated can figure out, and

498

get much better in terms of like their

messaging, especially if there's something

499

customized to a company's environment.

500

And if such a set of tools and

culture and manager exists in such

501

a company in the future, which might

be more common than not in that.

502

Company, what does that HR

person's day and time look like?

503

And would you stand by what you're saying?

504

Where they will still be very

engaged on the people side.

505

Sarah Chandler: Yeah, and I think what

you're hitting on now is culture, right?

506

So every company has its own

culture and the way of doing

507

things and culture changes.

508

It's evolving.

509

It's based on the people that are here.

510

And so that's where I think we, hR

works with leadership in saying, okay,

511

as a culture ambassador and architect,

how do we want to, what do we wanna

512

keep in this function and what do we

wanna turn over to automation, right?

513

Because there are decisions to be

made in this space and, it's not

514

something that we can say, oh, we'll

visit this at the end of the year.

515

Like these decisions are now.

516

And I do think.

517

It's interesting you said something

about, AI could get better at question,

518

asking better questions, right?

519

So there could be a bot, that is

being developed right now that can

520

ask the right questions to get the

right response to help make that

521

connection that I'm talking about.

522

And you're right, I recently heard that.

523

Empathy was being measured in ai and

that in some instances it seems that AI

524

is developing stronger empathy than some

humans, which feels outrageous to me.

525

And yet, is it?

526

Because they're getting all of that

downloaded, not downloaded, but all

527

that information is right there.

528

They're re learning and responding.

529

And so it's really interesting because

empathy is something that I've been

530

holding onto, is this is something

that I don't think can be replaced,

531

but now I'm hearing oh, maybe,

532

And going back to what we were

talking about, humans have bad days.

533

And I think about all the times that

I've had employee complaints and actual

534

claims because of flippant things that

managers have said, HR included saying

535

things that get us into hot water.

536

Whereas computer AI robots maybe

537

Thomas Kunjappu: the right

guardrails and just testing

538

Sarah Chandler: maybe they're

not gonna have that risk.

539

Maybe that's gonna improve the risk

that companies take with with trying

540

to stay within all the compliance

of local and state and federal laws.

541

So it's an interesting I don't know,

query, it's something to ponder

542

for me.

543

Thomas Kunjappu: so it's, and I

don't think it's quite a what if,

544

but you can brainstorm your way to.

545

Some end of, okay, everything is

gonna be taken over by AI and you

546

can just, forget the workplace.

547

But without short of doing that,

what do you, from your perspective,

548

almost refuse to outsource to ai?

549

Sarah Chandler: Oh, I love that.

550

Thomas Kunjappu: Forget

551

Sarah Chandler: love that.

552

Thomas Kunjappu: practical

or what just feels wrong?

553

Or what seems like it should be core to,

what you personally and what you want

554

your team to be doing into the future.

555

Sarah Chandler: So we have

556

so there's a lot of employees.

557

When employees exit, we do not

always get an opportunity to have an

558

in-person exit interview with them.

559

I have a small HR team.

560

We're small but mighty.

561

Ideally I would love for someone

to have some kind of a conversation

562

or connection with someone leaving

because I personally believe after an

563

employee leaves the company, they're

gonna tell the story of working here.

564

So we have this unique opportunity to turn

them into an ambassador for our company.

565

And It will either support our PR or

it's gonna tell a different story, right?

566

So sometimes the way that a person

exits can control that message, right?

567

If they're treated with kindness

and dignity and they have a good

568

experience on the way out, sometimes

that can really make a difference.

569

That is something that requires

like a finesse, a human finesse

570

that I don't think you get from the

automatic exit survey that gets pinged.

571

Once we term somebody in the system,

this automatic survey goes out.

572

Now I love that auto survey because

I can report on it and so it's great.

573

So people write it in and I get

this data, I can spit back reports,

574

feedback to the leaders and say,

here's areas that we need to focus on.

575

But what happens in the room when I'm

talking to a regrettable resignation?

576

And that's key, right?

577

Some terminations we're

glad you're leaving.

578

It's good for you.

579

It's good for us.

580

But there are regrettables that I

would like to learn from and I would

581

like to give that person that gift of

making sure that they leave on a high

582

note, feeling good about the company,

not looking over their shoulder.

583

Thinking I gotta get even with them.

584

I gotta get my due in.

585

I'd rather they said, Hey, I gave

my feedback to someone who cares,

586

who took notes and seems like

they're gonna do something with it.

587

I don't know that can be replicated.

588

That's something that I

feel, and there are certain.

589

Separations I go after, I'm like, Nope.

590

I wanna have an exit

interview with that person.

591

I hear about their resignation,

I wanna go talk to them.

592

What was the tipping point?

593

What's something we could have

done different and better?

594

Where are you going and why?

595

I want that data from a conversation.

596

That's something I

personally, it matters to me.

597

I've been able to quickly learn the

culture of my company through exit

598

surveys and I not surveys the interviews

and also stay interviews where I hand

599

select certain people that either they've

been recently promoted or transferred or

600

they're working in a whole new department.

601

Or I just hear, Hey, this is

somebody we never wanna lose.

602

I wanna go talk to that person.

603

I wanna get a sense of what they love

about their job, what they've noticed.

604

If they had a magic wand,

what would they change?

605

Like those are things

606

I like to have a conversation about.

607

So I wouldn't turn that over

to somebody on my team to do.

608

I wouldn't turn it over to AI to do.

609

That's something I would hold on to.

610

Thomas Kunjappu: It's really interesting.

611

My mind was flashing through the

moments in the employee journey

612

we talked about from recruiting

all the way, like to the end.

613

And there are these specific moments

that matter, which completely can

614

be amplified if you're doing it

systematically with human connection.

615

And, often the exit is the ones that

all right let's focus on everyone who's

616

here and there's no time for that.

617

But there's so much that can be gained

from spending the time human to human.

618

And yet I think of all the ways that

technology can help enable that moment.

619

Sarah Chandler: Yeah.

620

Thomas Kunjappu: The question is, and I

don't think you would be alone in this.

621

What is preventing you and the whole

function from having every single

622

person have an exit interview.

623

Just because it's possible.

624

And it's a human thing.

625

You can set up the person

to be an ambassador.

626

And it's often all these other things

that are being, that's taking over

627

the.

628

Sarah Chandler: Conflicting priorities.

629

Thomas Kunjappu: real

constraints, like you said.

630

So it's every HR team is

lean to some degree, right?

631

There's not tons of folks around.

632

So what do you think are the things that

are, taking our time today that maybe

633

won't be, where maybe there's a future

where, yeah, like it's dramatically out

634

of fashion for a company not to do an exit

interview, like across the board, across

635

all industries, for that to be true.

636

What are the kinds of things that you

imagine, are weighing us down, right?

637

With some real constraints.

638

We can't just have a couple of full-time

employees where all they're doing is,

639

Sarah Chandler: That's all they do.

640

Thomas Kunjappu: all day, right?

641

We just don't have that luxury.

642

So what are the things that then

we need to rebalance, right?

643

If we're gonna keep that identity and

those types of actions of front and

644

center in the future of the function.

645

Sarah Chandler: I wanna go

back to one of your questions.

646

You had said, what do

you refuse to let go?

647

And I was thinking.

648

What is something I wanna let go?

649

What are the things

that are the time sucks.

650

The things that are just like,

oh, why is this happening again?

651

I will say one of the things that we

put in place was employees would drop

652

in and they often have this perception

that HR is the complaint department.

653

And they'll come in and then they

just, start telling their story and

654

it 45 minutes later and we've just

heard all of this, we're trying to

655

extract the pieces that really matter.

656

We don't do that anymore.

657

We actually have a system where you have,

we make them put it in writing and it's

658

so much better for a lot of reasons.

659

One, it's instant documentation.

660

We can ask the question,

is there anything else?

661

And now we have it.

662

It saves our time from having to listen

and then psychologically I think it's

663

better for people rather than going off on

this verbal, ah, retraumatizing themselves

664

with the story of he said, and she said,

we're forcing them to put it into writing.

665

Guess what?

666

AI is helpful in that sense because people

don't feel like they're gonna be able

667

to get it out and we're like, you just,

spit it into ChatGPT and let it come

668

out, and then you're gonna review it and

you're gonna say, yeah, this is exactly

669

what happened, and then sign off on it.

670

And this becomes documentation,

it might lead to an investigation,

671

but that has saved us so much time

and heartache, whereas it also is,

672

we teach people how to treat us.

673

So HR is not the dumping ground

for all the problems, right?

674

We wanna be problem solvers and

we wanna help, and we're not

675

trying to squash all complaining.

676

We just need it to be more

streamlined, more efficient,

677

more automated, more effective.

678

Thomas Kunjappu: It's interesting

'cause when you mentioned the complaint

679

department, my mind went to which is

it party planning or is it the police

680

or is it the complaint department?

681

It's like all these

682

Sarah Chandler: We joke about that.

683

Yeah.

684

We have all,

685

Thomas Kunjappu: right there.

686

And all these like stereotypes, right?

687

But then also this kind of moment

similar to offboarding intuitively at

688

the first, at my fir at first blush,

I would've thought that, oh, this is

689

something where you wanna make a hundred

percent maintain the human connection.

690

But you brought out a nuance there

where actually in this case to let

691

someone vent in a productive way,

actually it makes sense to create a

692

little bit of friction and structure

process and writing something non-human

693

before you get to that element.

694

It's actually more productive.

695

Sarah Chandler: because it diffuses

the emotion and in that situation,

696

the emotion's not helpful.

697

Thomas Kunjappu: So

there are nuances, right?

698

So even if you

699

Sarah Chandler: There's our, there are

700

Thomas Kunjappu: human-centric, there's

there for any of these moments, you

701

wanna be strategic about where you want

to spend your team's time and energy.

702

Anything else come to mind as the

this, the things that you know,

703

in this like brave new future

where you feel like you want to,

704

Sarah Chandler: So I, we have,

we're distributors and so we

705

are very blue collar workforce.

706

So I will give you one example of

where I have certain leaders that just

707

throw their hands up no ai, it's almost

like they're gonna have big signs.

708

AI not welcome here.

709

And I'm

710

like, guys, simmer down.

711

Let me just help you understand,

like there's, we decide, what, we're

712

gonna use, what we're gonna implement

and you're already you don't even

713

know it, but you already have ai

helping you in your day-to-day life.

714

In many ways all of us are carrying

around little mini computers, so anyway,

715

I will tell you that, we have these

CDL drivers and they have these routes.

716

Now we know that if we plugged into ai

here are all the routes, here are all the

717

stores that we need to deliver beer to.

718

Just like your ways is gonna tell you

the fast or Google Maps gonna tell

719

you the fastest way to get there.

720

AI is gonna spit back the routes.

721

We do use.

722

Technology, but we also have that nuanced

piece where we have people who know the

723

stores have relationship with the stores.

724

They know that the fastest route isn't

actually the fastest route because.

725

Our Hensley truck pulls up and there's

also a Pepsi truck and a Coca-Cola truck,

726

and those trucks will be sitting in line

waiting for each other for three hours.

727

But if we go a different route

and hit this store first, we can

728

come back and there's no line.

729

It's like avoiding traffic, right?

730

And that's not something

you can just get through ai.

731

But with partnering with ai we

have a whole department which

732

actually could get smaller probably.

733

That are doing routing.

734

And so routing requires knowing the

stores, knowing the needs, knowing

735

the competitors, understanding the

market, understanding the time of

736

day, like it's got all the, all of

these factors in it, which we can

737

plug into AI to get that version.

738

And then it requires adjustment,

critical thinking, decision

739

making.

740

Again, all those things that I think.

741

Will be retained and a human leader.

742

Thomas Kunjappu: That's a great example.

743

There are use cases abound right

around I mean outside of HR for

744

every environment that that we're in.

745

But something not so subtle to everyone

in the workforce to some degree is,

746

and you alluded to this, is, oh,

what is this gonna mean for my job?

747

Is it gonna be eliminated?

748

Is it gonna change?

749

Is, and is this company

being real with me?

750

That's something at a meta level,

every HR leader should be proactively,

751

in my view, like contending with.

752

So how do you think about that?

753

Sarah Chandler: I like I, I'm stealing,

I'm taking tidbits from you in this

754

conversation because I really liked

the question you said when you

755

said, what would you never let go of

this is if somebody came to me and

756

they're like, I'm afraid for my job.

757

I would say, okay, what makes

you uniquely you in this role?

758

What are the accomplishments

you're proud of last year?

759

What are the things that are.

760

Taking up most of your

time, let's address those.

761

Is there anything that can be automated?

762

There's this whole concept of.

763

Visible waste and invisible waste.

764

Let's do a job analysis.

765

Let's get ahead of it.

766

So if you were the running the

company and we're looking at your

767

role objectively, let's look at it.

768

Where can there be efficiencies and

where do you need to be uniquely you?

769

Where is your talent?

770

So needed and so valuable?

771

And hopefully, I would hope through

that assessment, that person would

772

leave feeling more confident and more.

773

Intentional about where they're gonna

offload and improve efficiencies

774

and where they're gonna double down

on whatever their strengths are.

775

Thomas Kunjappu: And that model

works for HR professionals as well

776

as like everyone like out there.

777

And I like you're basically

dispelling the mystery, right?

778

So it's not the thought process for

the company would be dramatically

779

different than if you are going to think

through it yourself, or you actually

780

have, might have the most in-depth

knowledge around what's required

781

in your own particular role, right?

782

And if you put that lens to it,

you can get to better conclusions.

783

Sarah Chandler: I am a bit of an HR nerd.

784

I really love HR and I

love talking about work.

785

I know people will say, I don't like

to talk about work outside of work.

786

I talk about work everywhere.

787

So I like, this is a conversation

I would wanna have at a party.

788

Tell me about your job

789

and tell me about the ways

that AI is gonna make your job

790

different in a year or five years.

791

I think that's fascinating and I think

we should all be thinking about it.

792

We should all be thinking about.

793

What about my job needs to stay human,

must stay high touch, must be accentuated.

794

And what am I doing to upskill

that so that it stays with me?

795

And then what can I offload

to give me more time to do

796

the more strategic, fun stuff?

797

Thomas Kunjappu: Absolutely.

798

I think that's a greatest place

to hit pause on this conversation

799

Sarah Chandler: Okay.

800

Thomas Kunjappu: Because we've

covered so much ground between

801

the I guess the identity right?

802

Of just being people-centric first.

803

And then we and talked a lot about

the nuances around the HR team and the

804

very many different personas that come

into form a fully functional HR team.

805

And there's probably room for different

types of minds and personalities.

806

And yet there's this thing that

brings them together as well as.

807

Everyone working anywhere is thinking

about how your job will be changing and

808

trying to get people to be proactive about

thinking that thinking about that on their

809

own is maybe a remedy to the fear-based

thinking, which definitely parades many

810

people in many places at the moment.

811

And it was great to go through

that thought experiment about.

812

You know how in a performance management

conversation for a ma, for a manager and

813

an employee, even with AI coaches and

things in the future, what the role of a

814

great a HR team could look like even in

that evolved future fully distilled in

815

the concept of an exit interview, right?

816

There's just so many things where it's

not even thought about that we could.

817

Have an exit interview for at 1500

people with some significant turnover

818

in every industry with, people

driving trucks and in the industry.

819

And we're gonna have a 30 minute

human conversation with every

820

single one because we can.

821

And we should.

822

And 'cause there are other things

that we are forced to do today, maybe

823

that we don't have to do as much.

824

And there should be some evolution

like that right across every.

825

Part of the employee lifecycle for

HR teams, but then also for every

826

part of what they're touching, no

matter what function you're in.

827

So thank you for this

wonderful conversation, Sarah.

828

Sarah Chandler: Yeah.

829

Thank you.

830

Thomas Kunjappu: and,

831

Sarah Chandler: very thought provoking.

832

It is a really cool time

to be alive and be at work.

833

It really is.

834

So this, it's about to get really fun.

835

Thomas Kunjappu: Absolutely.

836

Couldn't agree more.

837

Hopefully people can find you on LinkedIn.

838

Is that a great place

839

Sarah Chandler: Yeah, sure.

840

Absolutely.

841

Yeah.

842

Thomas Kunjappu: find, out more

about you and the work that you do?

843

That's.

844

That's great.

845

So thank you Sarah for this

conversation, for everyone out

846

there who's looking listening in

and looking to future proof your own

847

organizations and your own HR teams.

848

I hope you found some value here as I

did from this development conversation.

849

Bye now.

850

See you on the next one.

851

Thanks for joining us on this

episode of Future Proof HR.

852

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853

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854

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855

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how we can all thrive in the age of AI.