Ryan Nauman hosts Zephyr’s Adjusted for Risk podcast with Mike Willis, CEO and co-founder of Cyber Hornet ETFs, discussing why consistently beating the market is difficult and how advisors can add value through asset allocation, discipline, and client coaching. Willis shares his background from wirehouses to launching an RIA and creating investment products to make his strategies accessible to smaller investors, including why he shifted to using the S&P 500 as a portfolio backbone after underperforming in 2013–2014. He explains Cyber Hornet’s 75/25 approach—75% S&P 500 with a 25% crypto “kicker” (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, or XRP) rebalanced monthly—to buffer volatility while gaining crypto exposure, and discusses crypto “winter,” technical patterns, scarcity fundamentals, regulatory clarity, and the still-low adoption of crypto by financial advisors.

Zephyr can help financial advisors create modern diversified portfolios. Learn more here.

Learn more about Cyber Hornet ETFs here.

00:00 Podcast Kickoff

01:30 Meet Mike Willis

02:26 Advisor Value Beyond Alpha

03:55 Why Build a Fund Platform

05:33 From Active to Index Core

06:33 Adding a Crypto Kicker

08:51 The Index Ticker Story

14:09 Why Crypto Beats Options

15:26 Bitcoin Adoption Waves

18:38 Crypto Winter Explained

24:08 What Ends the Downturn

27:23 Advisor Adoption Outlook

29:32 Wrap Up and Resources

Connect with Ryan Nauman:

LinkedIn

X

Go!

2

Ryan Nauman Market Strategist Zephyr:

Welcome everyone to Zephyr's Adjusted

3

for Risk podcast from the shores of

Lake Tahoe I am Ryan Nauman the market

4

strategist here at Zephyr Markets are

as e as efficient as ever which makes

5

it hard to consistently beat the market

my next guest is an industry expert who

6

has a very interesting investment thesis

in regards to beating the market which

7

includes an asset class that can be

somewhat polarizing But first this episode

8

is sponsored by the award-winning Zephyr

which helps investment professionals

9

make more informed investment decisions

on behalf of their clients All right

10

enough from me Let's go ahead and move

on to the star of the show I'd like to

11

give a very warm welcome to Mike Willis

Mike is the CEO and co-founder of Cyber

12

Hornet ETFs Mike thank you so much for

coming on the show It's an honor to

13

have you I'm really excited about this

conversation and I think our audience is

14

gonna learn a lot It's gonna be a good

one Where can you please tell us a little

15

bit more about yourself in Cyber Hornet

16

Mike Willis CEO & Co-Founder Cyber Hornet ETFs:

Sure.

17

Thanks Ryan for letting me be here.

18

I started out trading my way through

grad school, got my MBA in finance

19

out at Cal Poly in California.

20

Went to work initially for Smith Barney

Pain, Weber, UBS as a senior Vice

21

President of investments at UBS before

I went independent, started my own RIA

22

and then eventually my own Rick, which

is a registered investment company

23

to enable mutual fund creation and.

24

You know, along the way the goal

was always to beat the s and p 500.

25

It was, you know, and, and

before that it was, you know, to

26

find the holy grail of trading.

27

I've been trading for 30 years and.

28

I like to say I've been in Trad five

for 30 years in Defi for seven years.

29

I became a Bitcoin seven years

ago, and I think it's a fun blend

30

to have and, and that of course is

the the origin of the ETF company.

31

But walking back a little bit, we.

32

We set out to beat the market

and realized along the way that

33

the market was already winning.

34

And there are other ways that advisors

can create value for their, their

35

clients that we think is even better

than just trading their portfolios.

36

But the asset allocations obviously

play a big role in the performance.

37

The quarterly reviews, the keeping

their, their clients on track with their.

38

Their investment plans because

really that's, I think that's really

39

the, the best thing you can do.

40

Put the math in their favor with the, the

different asset allocations you're using,

41

and then let compounding of interest and

just your, your discipline in keeping

42

them focused on their, their investment

plan and not, not deviating from it,

43

is I think how an advisor can bring

the most value to their, their clients.

44

Ryan: Mike you're exactly correct We

focus here at Zephyr a lot about that

45

Ryan Nauman Market Strategist Zephyr:

asset allocation and how important

46

is studies show that 90 or 95 of the

variation in a portfolio's return

47

depends on the asset allocation

right So it's very important

48

Ryan: I love that you brought that

up Also let's go back to you your you

49

and the creation of Cyber Hornet ETFs

What at what point when you had your

50

own were you like All right let's

go ahead and I'm gonna create my own

51

Rick now all right My own platform

for investment management and create

52

Mike Willis: Yeah, that

was a fun evolution.

53

What happened?

54

I had my account minimum

was a million dollars.

55

After I left the wirehouses, I only

took 37 clients with me so that you

56

know, I could focus on them and.

57

I, you know, I, I work in a, a white

collar world, but really live in a, in

58

a blue collar world, my friends are blue

collar and they'd come up and say, Hey, I

59

have 25,000, or I have $50,000 to invest.

60

You know, what should I do?

61

Can you help me?

62

And it was kind of difficult, you know,

telling 'em they didn't meet my minimum

63

and, and so I couldn't work with them.

64

And so, as I.

65

As I progressed, I realized it just

wasn't, my answers weren't setting

66

well with me, and so I decided I really

wanted what I was doing to be available.

67

The, the asset management I was doing

to be available to, you know, anyone

68

on, on down to a thousand dollars.

69

So.

70

That was the, the origin of

going down the mutual fund path.

71

And actually from a compliance

standpoint, there were some benefits

72

because advisors know how much

compliance is now required to, to

73

go from one mutual fund to the next.

74

And there were some efficiencies for

being in a, in a, in a mutual fund.

75

Where you could trade on the inside and,

and if you can get around the barriers

76

of entry of prospectuses and SEC filings

and, you know, all the other things.

77

It, it made it, it made, it made

it, we were able to offer our

78

strategies to anyone, and that

was, that was initially the.

79

The catalyst for going in that direction.

80

But I can tell you that also in

81

beat the s and p for seven years,

82

The s and p was up over 30%.

83

We were up about half that for

our clients and really recognize

84

that here, you know, we had.

85

I'd invested, you know, thousands of

hours into our portfolios and here, you

86

know, the cheap, one of the cheapest

products in the market beat us handily

87

and then the next year as well.

88

So we, we shifted at that point and

realized that we wanted to use the

89

s and p 500 as the backbone and add

value to our clients in other areas,

90

because that was where we could make

the most significant impact for them.

91

And we went out, we found, we got the.

92

Index ticker symbol, which

hadn't been picked up yet.

93

We got the s and p 500 license so that we

could offer that to the public and then.

94

The rest is kind of history.

95

When crypto hit the market and we realized

that Wall Street was in transition to

96

tokenization and, and decentralization and

blockchain and being a new asset class,

97

we got excited about that and wanted

to incorporate that incorporated into

98

the, you know, the champion of Tradify,

which we consider the s and p 500 index.

99

We just felt like it needed a

crypto kicker to it to kind of

100

bring it into the 21st century.

101

And so we, we added that

25% kicker of crypto.

102

But also on the flip side, we think

it's crazy to jump in a hundred

103

percent into crypto because most people

can't handle that kind of volatility.

104

Investors we found can handle about

30, down 30%, but, but south of that,

105

they start really getting nervous and

burning up the advisor's phone calls.

106

And, and down 50 it's, they're probably

out and down 60 might be a lawsuit.

107

So we, we, we came up with the 75 25

blended strategy to give advisors a way

108

to kind of buffer that volatility of the

new asset class and keep their, their

109

clients in this crypto space for the

long term, which we think we're still

110

early and there's a lot of upside left.

111

Ryan: Yeah that's fantastic Mike And

we're gonna touch on a lot of that here

112

shortly but you're exactly right Mark like

113

beat the markets whether especially now

with it being so highly concentrated if

114

you're underweight those know for a while

to make seven names or mega tech or AI

115

you're gonna underperform then you have

technology technologies making markets

116

more efficient So it's really hard to

beat the market like you said even back

117

then probably harder now So why do you

feel you just mentioned that one of

118

your strategies was to add a kicker to

the S&P 500 being crypto being Bitcoin

119

Why do you feel adding crypto to the

S&P 500 index gives investors the best

120

opportunity to beat the market number

one And number two how surprised were you

121

that the index ticker was still available

122

Mike Willis: Yeah, I.

123

I wanna hit that one first.

124

So when I phoned, I phoned in and,

and asked the NASDAQ for INDE.

125

And of course, all all

mutual funds end in X.

126

And so I asked if it was

available and they said yes.

127

And I said, okay, I'd like to reserve it.

128

And I, I think I, I think I.

129

I, I think I, I led on that it was, I

was amazed that it was still available

130

and the person at the other end was

like, you know, what does it even mean?

131

Why would this be important?

132

And you know, we only have $10

trillion in the index fund space

133

and spend the hottest, you know,

the fastest growing space on Wall

134

Street for probably 25 years.

135

So, of course it was exciting to be to

have that ticker symbol still there.

136

And, you know, the, the, the

tradify companies of, you know,

137

Vanguard wanted their tickets to

start with V and, and on and on.

138

Infidelity F of course.

139

So they kind of got caught up in

that, I think, and they didn't

140

realize, you know, like an ETF.

141

I think those companies realized early

on that ticker symbols were important,

142

but from a mutual fund standpoint, I

think they just didn't think it was.

143

And I think that's where the, the

opportunity was for us to jump on it.

144

And at some point here.

145

The rest of our products are ETFs,

but the one, our index s and p

146

500 portfolio is a mutual fund.

147

And when, at some point in the future

when there's five letter tickers

148

available in the ETF space, we'll, we,

we might consider converting that at that

149

point, but, so we were super excited.

150

I remember telling my dad at

the time, I said, Hey, we just

151

made a million dollars today.

152

And he goes, what happened?

153

Tell me what happened.

154

Oh, no, he was in my car.

155

I actually came outta, I

FedExed it to the nasdaq.

156

Our payment for it.

157

And I got back in the car and I go,

well, that FedEx worth a million dollars.

158

And he goes, what was it?

159

And so I told him, and so yeah, I think,

and, and to, to a vanguard, I mean,

160

it's worth a hundred million dollars.

161

I mean, just think if they slapped

that ticker on their total stock

162

market index fund that has $1.7

163

trillion in its V-F-I-A-I-X or some,

some ticker, nobody's gonna remember.

164

They put I-N-D-E-X on that and they

start, they, they brand it as, you know,

165

index, having being a household name,

you know, you're now available in one,

166

easy to remember, ticker introducing

index, your favorite index fund in one.

167

Easy to remember particular.

168

So I, I mean, I, to us we're

small, so it's not, of course

169

not worth that much yet.

170

But I can tell you this,

when advisors find out.

171

That we have the index ticker symbol.

172

They always go crazy.

173

And we have, you know, index hats that

we give out to, to certain advisors

174

and, and they just, they love 'em.

175

So,

176

Ryan: I

177

Mike Willis: what was

178

the, the the second question, or it

was, your first question was what?

179

Ryan: No and that's perfect Mike because

I have a lot of guests on ETF providers

180

on that are And they talk about how

hard it is to create a ticker And they

181

realize like how important it is So it

just when I heard that's a ticker for

182

your mutual fund it's that's fantastic

183

Mike Willis: so important.

184

It's, I mean, I've been a collector

all my life of art and different

185

things, and so ticker symbols

are kind of just right up there.

186

You know, if you go out to Dubai

and, and Bahrain they, ticker symbols

187

are really important out there.

188

In fact, like licenses on.

189

Cars the one, one sold for, you

know, millions of dollars just

190

because they, they really value the,

you know, the license plate and,

191

and, and essentially what's on it.

192

And of course, it's like ai.com

193

just sold for $70 million.

194

There's.

195

There's literally tickers going, I call

them tickers, but they're just, you

196

know, letters on license plates selling

for millions of dollars in Dubai, and

197

I see it no different on Wall Street.

198

You know, sticky tickers make

a difference in marketing.

199

And one of the things we were able to get

with our 75 25 platform, we got triple B.

200

For Bitcoin, triple E for Ethereum,

triple S for Solana and Triple X for XRP.

201

So it's really easy to remember.

202

And and they're all 75 25,

so they're built on a 75%

203

foundation in the s and p 500.

204

And then we have that crypto component

at 25% that we rebalance monthly.

205

Ryan: Yeah Awesome Mike We should

probably I should probably should get

206

us back on track talking about your the

strategy and beating the market but I

207

love just these stories about creating

a company the tickers and what goes into

208

it It's a lot of fun So going back to the

first question you just mentioned that

209

at first it was very hard to beat the

210

the market harder now maybe than ever

to beat the market You realize that

211

adding crypto and in your case 25 to

the S&P 500 gives you that kicker that

212

extra juice to potentially beating the

market So why do you feel adding crypto

213

to the S&P 500 500 gives investors that

best opportunity to beat the market

214

versus maybe using options to produce

income or other vehicles why crypto

215

Mike Willis: Yeah, I think there's a

lot of different ways you can a lot of

216

different strategies you can implement

that are creative and and smart In our

217

world, what we're looking at here is.

218

We don't like to use leverage.

219

We like to just own the position outright.

220

So that, that eliminates

derivatives from our pool.

221

So we're looking at, okay, what,

what, what's the grand champion of all

222

indexes on, on the trad five world?

223

Well, we think that's the s and p 500.

224

Then from a crypto standpoint.

225

There's, there's hundreds of thousands of

tokens actually out there on the market,

226

so we only start paying attention to them

when the public has, when the investors

227

have pushed them up into the top 10.

228

And that's when we start to pay attention

to the crypto positions that we think.

229

Our shareholders should

also pay attention to.

230

And right at the top, of course, the grand

champion in the digital space is Bitcoin.

231

And then you have Ethereum, Solana,

XRP, sers, and there's some others.

232

So what we, we think blockchain

is here to stay, and we think that

233

was proven over what we think.

234

We call the the three waves of Bitcoin,

and the first wave into Bitcoin was

235

that unregulated wave that was paved

by the pioneers and early adopters.

236

And they went out and kicked, scratched,

and fought their way into the most

237

crazy different, you know, digital

wallets with public and private keys

238

on unregulated exchanges opening these

accounts, having nobody to call if they

239

accidentally send it to the wrong place.

240

But these were the pioneers

that that got Bitcoin early on.

241

And then your second about a trillion

dollars came in over a 15 year period.

242

Then two years ago, the SEC.

243

Made Bitcoin legal in a

regulated exchange in your, your

244

brokerage account through ETFs.

245

And so that we, we call that the

second wave of, of into Bitcoin.

246

And that, you know, set all records

with, with new asset classes for ETFs.

247

And then the third wave is what

we're in now, and we think that's

248

the, the institutional wave.

249

And specifically to this call, the,

the 300,000 plus financial advisors

250

who are gatekeepers to $30 trillion

in assets really haven't started.

251

Recommending crypto yet.

252

So when people say we miss Bitcoin,

we're late, we, we disagree,

253

we think we're still early.

254

Most advisors have no idea what the

difference between Bitcoin, Ethereum,

255

Solana, XRPR, and those are the top

four cryptocurrencies on the market.

256

So, you know, we're not late,

you know, we're way early here.

257

And so our goal is to, we don't think

advisors need to become experts in crypto

258

to incorporate it in their portfolios.

259

The, the statistics are showing

20 to 30% of their clients

260

are buying crypto around them.

261

So this gives them a way to satisfy

that crypto demand, keep the assets

262

in-house, and protect your, your

fiduciary risk by buffering it

263

with a 75% s and p 500 foundation.

264

Ryan: Yeah Mike that's fantastic A couple

of things that I was late to get into

265

crypto I did I had a bunch of guests on

talking about Bitcoin really for the first

266

few years I didn't really understand it

I'm not gonna invest in something I didn't

267

understand Then I kept doing more research

It was like the impacts at Bitcoin and

268

I specifically just used Bitcoin has on

the efficient frontier on the efficient

269

frontier every one of those portfolios

100 portfolios had some slice of Bitcoin

270

in it whether it's the most conservative

to the most aggressive it just opened my

271

eyes yeah there's more benefits to it than

just price appreciation When you put it

272

into a client portfolio or an investment

portfolio diversification increases that

273

diversification which is so important

too going back to asset allocation that

274

we talked about earlier So there's that

part And then now let's talk a little bit

275

about the performance my crypto winners

upon us Bitcoin's down what as we're

276

talking now 13 this year down nearly

40 from its high What's been the cause

277

of this crypto winter and this pullback

278

Mike Willis: Yeah, I would go, the

first thing I would say is this.

279

I started tracking Bitcoin was at a buck.

280

I had three screens up.

281

I've always been at stock traders,

so it, I was curious about this new

282

cryptocurrency and so I watched it.

283

I, I watched it go from

one to a hundred back down.

284

I watched it go up to 300 and back

down up to a thousand and back down.

285

And when it finally hit about 7,000,

I decided to do some my due diligence

286

on it, because up until then, when my

clients ask about it, I said, well.

287

If a coder can create it, then

another coder can counterfeit it.

288

So I'm just not interested.

289

And that kept me away.

290

But once I did the deep dive and I had

committed a hundred hours to that deep

291

dive, and I was only, I probably 15 hours

in, and I, I, I was just, I couldn't

292

believe, I didn't look at it sooner.

293

Because once you understand the

cryptography and some of the

294

core principles of it, it, it's

mind blowing and you'll see why.

295

Why crypto heads get so excited about

it and why, you know, it even gets

296

religious to a lot of those guys.

297

But I will say this, the new the new

wave of people coming into Bitcoin

298

really don't understand the, the

original core principles of it.

299

The scarce digital asset.

300

It's a, it's a bear asset.

301

You can own no trusted third parties.

302

It's peer to peer.

303

I can, I can actually send you a thousand

dollars without it touching a bank.

304

So.

305

And there's many more of

these, these principles.

306

You know, it's, it's the monetary

policy is regulated by code, not

307

by people, you know, changing their

minds or the fed, which we have

308

no idea who they actually are.

309

And so there's, there's great reasons

to own crypto in your portfolio.

310

I think however, the

newbies coming in are.

311

They don't understand the core

principles, but they understand it

312

more as a new technology and they're

treating it like a tech stock.

313

So it does trade the, the new the

new volume coming into Bitcoin

314

over the last several years.

315

Very different from the first wave

of Bitcoin in terms of behavior

316

and reasons for coming in.

317

With that said, I'll,

I'll tell you a story.

318

We were hiring people recently.

319

One of the people we hired bought

Bitcoin actually at a penny, and

320

they sold it at a dollar because they

thought the US government would shut

321

it down when it got to a dollar 'cause

it would compete with the US dollar.

322

So obviously that didn't happen.

323

We have another person in the

office, our CTO bought it at a buck.

324

Sold it at a hundred dollars.

325

'cause that was a nice, you know,

they went, that's pretty good.

326

That's a good return.

327

So I think when Bitcoin hit a

hundred thousand dollars here.

328

I think that's another

one of those numbers.

329

And when it didn't hold, I mean it went

up to 1 26 and then it came back down and

330

I think people got scared when it, and

when it breached under a hundred thousand

331

and they were like, you know what?

332

We've had a nice little run here.

333

It looks like you know, this might be it.

334

And so they sold out of it, but what's

also happening at the same time here.

335

The technicals I think,

are important to bring up.

336

And if you look at the crypto winter of

337

you, but we just didn't we just didn't

get it together for you in time, but.

338

The, the head and shoulders pattern is

almost identical to the crypto winter that

339

we had a couple years ago, four years ago.

340

And so we're tracking it almost verbatim.

341

And so from a technical standpoint,

we could churn for a while here.

342

But what's coming when I

say for a while, you know.

343

Three to nine months.

344

But it is a sharper version of 2022.

345

So it's very possible we're gonna get

a V recovery since it's been more of a

346

V-shape and not a U-shape crypto winter.

347

So we'll just have to wait and see.

348

But I will say this, so technically

we could go down, breach the

349

$50,000 level, even though we're

up about 30% off the bottom here.

350

The recent bottom, the.

351

The possibility of going back, taking

out the 50,000 stops and then, and

352

then resuming the rally is very

possible from a technical standpoint.

353

Fundamentally speaking though,

this, there's only 21 million coins.

354

We've already mined 20 million of 'em.

355

That threshold was hit about a month

ago, so there's like a million coins left

356

and at some point when the music stops,

we all know how musical chairs works.

357

And there's only so many chairs.

358

So that's why investors who really

understand crypto and realize,

359

look, this is not only a scarce,

this is, this is digital gold.

360

It's a scarce digital asset.

361

It, you can trans, I mean,

I've carried gold and silver.

362

I've been a gold bug and a silver bug.

363

And I can tell you it's difficult

to move around the world.

364

And it's much easier to move a

Bitcoin than it is a bar of gold.

365

I can tell you that much.

366

Ryan: Yeah The the carry cost is a

lot cheaper for Bitcoin right so it's

367

interesting that you brought up more

of the technical point of it cyclo like

368

you said broke 100,000 120 and a very

good point that you made that maybe

369

people are like All right let's take

some profits off the table and who knows

370

what's next great point Mike So what

will take it to end do you think You

371

said maybe it could breach 50 would that

be a point on the technical side or is

372

there something more fundamental that

you think could end this crypto winner

373

Mike Willis: Well, I think just

in the last month you've seen

374

a lot of AI hacks in crypto.

375

And so I think that stalled things

with Bitcoin jumped off the,

376

the, the, the recent bottom here.

377

It looks like it's off and running and it

very well could be 'cause the fundamentals

378

are only getting stronger and stronger

when you have a scarce digital asset

379

where you can't print more of them.

380

You know, there's a reason, one of the

big reasons that, that Bitcoiners came

381

about is they felt like the US dollar.

382

Was because there is no limit to

how many dollars can be produced and

383

they're no longer backed by gold.

384

What we saw happen during COVID with

$10 trillion being printed, you know,

385

burgers went from eight bucks to 20 bucks.

386

And that's a problem because if you

saved, saved up your whole life and

387

you had a million dollars in the bank.

388

It's now 75, you know,

$750,000, you lost 25% minimum.

389

And some people would say you lost a

lot more than that in purchasing power.

390

So, Bitcoiners, the, the

neat thing about Bitcoin is.

391

At the minimum, it's a competition to the,

the monopoly on money the, the governments

392

have had for at least recent memory.

393

And so at a minimum, it should help

create a more efficient and competitive

394

monetary system at a maximum if all

fiat currencies throughout history

395

have always, once they've gone off.

396

The gold standard or

whatever was backing them.

397

They've all gone to zero at some point.

398

So we all talk about the great

reset, what does that look like?

399

And so Bitcoin is a hedge against the

financial, current financial system

400

failing, even though now it trades

like a, a tech stock at some point.

401

When the core principles are understood

by the masses, it will bifurcate and

402

it will not trade in, in correlation

with the stock markets, in my opinion.

403

But the reason it is now is you just have

such a huge wave of people that own it.

404

For other reasons, you know, not,

not for the original core reasons.

405

So what would cause it to rebound?

406

I think clarity in the,

the regulatory environment.

407

You know, there's some, there's some

bills on Capitol Hill that could bring

408

clarity that would allow institutions.

409

And compliance, the compliance within

these institutions to allow people

410

within the organization to, to bring

it into certain portfolios that

411

right now it can't be allowed in.

412

And that's happening on a, a

weekly, monthly basis every month.

413

There's somebody, some new announcement

about a new bank or a new brokerage

414

house that is allowing their, their

brokers or clients to own crypto.

415

So the fundamentals keep getting better.

416

The technicals are what they are.

417

You know, this is part of a new

technology Every four years, crypto goes

418

through these at least up until now,

these massive crypto, crypto winters.

419

But when you go back over the last,

you know, two since inception.

420

And certainly the last 10 years

crypto at least Bitcoin's been

421

the, the best performing asset

class, I think across all markets.

422

Ryan: Yeah

423

Mike Willis: Yeah, very

good stuff there, Mike.

424

So you mentioned earlier

about the adoption.

425

And,

426

you know

427

retail, investor institutions,

retail financial advisors, investors.

428

Do you feel that financial advisors in the

retail investor space has fully adopted

429

or accepted crypto as an asset class?

430

Came an asset class

431

Over a year ago.

432

Do you think they fully

accepting crypto yet or no?

433

Retail, yes.

434

Advisors, definitely not.

435

We're finding maybe 5% of advisors are

incorporating into their portfolio so far.

436

So 95% are not.

437

And that's exciting to us because,

you know, advisors are gatekeepers

438

to 30 trillion in assets.

439

So that's gonna unlock at

some point because, you know.

440

BlackRock was against Bitcoin for,

you know, over 10 years before and,

441

and, and adamantly and so were some

of the other large institutions.

442

I think Goldman Sachs.

443

You know, called it Tulip Mania, you

know, and now they just announced a

444

month ago that they're, they're coming

out with their own Bitcoin, ETF.

445

So we're going through that, that

normal cycle that new technologies go

446

through, where you throw mud at them

to begin with, or fud or say, you know,

447

if you remember what the internet,

oh, that's just for pornography

448

and you know, all this other stuff.

449

And then we found out there

was a lot, a lot of cool things

450

you could do with the internet.

451

And it wasn't just criminal activities.

452

Same thing with, with.

453

Cryptocurrencies that, you know, initially

they just said it's criminal activities,

454

but turns out there's a lot of cool

things you can do with cryptocurrency

455

that goes way beyond some of that stuff.

456

And now that the institutions are

adopting it, the advisors have

457

to look at it and they all, they

will in our opinion, because when

458

BlackRock says it's an asset class,

fidelity says it's an AC asset class.

459

Goldman says it's an asset class.

460

Morgan Stanley just announced they're

coming out with their own Bitcoin, ETF.

461

These are.

462

This is it.

463

It will, it will permeate into the advisor

space and that $30 trillion will unlock.

464

And that's another reason

we think we're still early.

465

Ryan: Awesome Mike Fantastic Thank you

so much for coming on It's an honor to

466

have you on really fun conversation I

learned a lot a lot of stuff to unpack

467

here I'm probably gonna go back and watch

this a couple different times to fully

468

get it all So thank you so much Mike

for coming on the show and sharing such

469

great insight Where can our audience get

more information about CyberHornet ETFs

470

Mike Willis: Cyber Hornet etfs.com

471

is our website.

472

Ryan: Awesome

473

Mike Willis: Mike, thank you so much.

474

Ryan: much I'll include those

links in the show notes as well

475

Mike Willis: So everyone can,

476

Ryan: get

477

Mike Willis: access to those.

478

Ryan: resources

479

Mike Willis: Thank you everyone.

480

Ryan: listening to this episode of

Zephyr's Adjusted for Risk Podcast You

481

can watch all of our other podcasts

on the Zephyr YouTube channel as well

482

as on Spotify and wherever else you

get your podcasts Thank you very much

483

and have a great rest of your week

484

Mike Willis: Thank you, Ryan.