Guest, Ben Nordeman, founder of Go-Keto, talks about the ketogenic diet and its impact on metabolic health. Ben explains the basic principles of keto, the process of ketosis, and addresses common concerns like keto flu and the differences in diet effects between men and women.

Visit https://sofrickinhealthy.com/episodes/ben-nordemann for more information and resources.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

01:32 What is the Ketogenic Diet?

05:33 Keto and Metabolic Health

06:08 Understanding Insulin Resistance

08:59 Macronutrients in the Keto Diet

11:53 The Benefits of Ketosis

14:02 The Keto Flu and Transitioning

• Electrolytes

17:33 Restoring Electrolytes on Keto

18:27 Avoiding the Keto Flu

19:40 Keto for Women: Hormonal Considerations

22:16 Long-Term Keto and Transitioning

29:07 Measuring Ketosis: Methods and Tools

• urine sticks
• breath measurements
• blood tests

31:49 Go Keto: Products and Services

• Use Code: SFHPOD at check out for 10% off your purchase

34:32 Conclusion and Future Topics

Mentioned in this episode:

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Hello. My name is Ben Nordevan, and I'm proud to be a guest on the so freakin Healthy podcast. Today, we're going to be talking about Keto.

Eleven years ago, I founded Go Keto, as I discovered Keto to be a very good way to improve your metabolic health. Today, we'll talk about Keto and metabolic health.

Hello, hello, hello. Hi, Donna. How are you doing today?

Good, Megan, how are you doing today?

I'm fabulous. Today I'm excited because we're talking about blood and metabolic stuff. And, you know, I get all jazzed about that.

For those of you who don't know me, I spent 17 years in the diabetes industry, so this topic is near and dear to my heart. I'm really excited that we have Ben here to talk with us today about Keto.

Although my introduction to Keto and ketones was actually from a diabetic point of view, which is not what we're talking about today. We're actually talking about Keto. Keto with people who don't have necessarily metabolic diseases, like type two diabetes.

However, those things can still partner together. And I think Ben's going to tell us a lot about how the keto diet and hopefully the keto lifestyle can help with metabolic diseases.

So welcome, Ben, and we're happy to have you.

Thank you. I'm really honored to be a guest on your so freaking healthy podcast. Really exciting.

Yeah, this is great.

Thanks, Ben.

Donna, I have to again commend Donna for finding wonderful guests. So every time, Donna has just so many wonderful people in her back pocket, and you are one of them, you have a business called go keto.

So for those of people who have lived under a rock for the last 15 years, maybe you could explain a brief overview of what the ketogenic diet is and its main principles.

I think we can start quite simple in that our body in that way, our metabolism. So the way that we process food and the way that we get our energy, our body has two systems. We can burn carbohydrates.

And to explain it in a simple way, to burn carbohydrates, your body produces glucose, and glucose is the fuel for your cells. In the absence of carbohydrates, your body can also burn fat.

If your body metabolizes, burns, processes fat, your body actually produces ketones, and ketones is the second fuel.

So in the basis, you have two fuel systems, the more dirty carbohydrates, because there's a lot of negatives around it, and the very clean and very fast energy with ketones. And that's the reason why it's called a keto diet.

Great. That is definitely the most succinct, 32nd explanation of a keto diet. That's excellent, Ben.

But you did say something that I wanted to cling on to, because I know that some people will love to hear that you said that when we are doing keto or when we're in ketosis, we're utilizing our energy from fat.

And I think what's really interesting to understand is that not only are we utilizing fat that we're eating, we're actually also utilizing fat reserves in the fat.

That is correct, provided that you have enough. It's one of the reasons why the keto diet is so popular, because it uses bodily fat as well.

It's also one of the challenges is that a lot of people find it difficult to add fat to their diet because we are so much told that fat makes fat, even though it's already long known that fat does not make you fat.

So for people to get used to putting enough fat on their food, because you can only go so far as using bodily fat, also takes quite some energy for your body to take it. So adding fat to your diet as you take out the carbohydrates, or reduced carbohydrates is very, very important.

But yeah, it's true that you will use your body fat and it will stabilize there, which is your preferred size of you as a person or preferred fat component. But I would not recommend that you only do a keto diet on your bodily fat, because then you're really talking about a starvation diet.

One, I don't think it's sustainable, and it's also questionable what the impact of that is on your body. It's very often used the keto diet. And although diet, if you look back on the latin name, it's actually the correct wording for it.

And a lot of people think with diet, oh, my God, now I have to suffer, and now I have to do something really horrible, and I have to be very, very restricted.

And actually, I prefer to talk about a ketone nutrition plan because it's a different way of eating and it's a way which actually much closer to our bodies, because our bodies were not designed to have three to four meals a day and three to four snacks a day and being constantly high on the load of carbohydrates.

And our bodies actually have been made to have a meal, to digest it, to process it, and then to have sustained energy for as long as we need to gather or to hunt or whatever to get the next meal. And that could be a couple of days. And that's just a normal, natural process.

Now, in the last 100, 200 years, we've changed that by just continuously eating without stopping. That is causing a lot of the current western diseases.

We have so many questions, and you introduced so many topics in that last 30 seconds.

I do want to stay kind of with the basics for the moment, but we're going to circle all the way back around to everything you just said in terms of what you were just talking about, with how the lifestyle changed and how we eat. How does the keto nutrition plan or lifestyle, how does it actually promote weight loss? I think we kind of got that with using fat.

But how does it also improve metabolic health?

And the metabolic health is really where we're talking about potential type two diabetes or other metabolic diseases that can have big impacts on our overall health. So how does the diet directly impact metabolic health?

Well, I think the best way to start is, what are the challenges? Or why is a high carbohydrate so bad for us? In a way, what happens is you eat carbohydrates, your body produces glucose and glucose.

I'm going to be simplifying it a little bit to explain it, then. The glucose is in your blood, and the glucose gets taken up by the cells.

And for those of you who know a little bit about metabolism, glucose cannot get into the cells by itself. It needs insulin. So insulin and glucose together helps glucose get into the cells.

Once the cells are full, they close the door and they say, we want no more. We're full. What then happens is the glucose and the insulin levels rise throughout the blood. And this is very bad for your health.

And a couple of things happen. One is it damages your arteries and it damages your tissue and so on.

The second thing is the body says, oh, I have high insulin and I have high glucose. I got to do something with it. And what it does, it stores it as fat. So this is why sustained high levels of carbohydrates basically makes you fat.

Because the glucose, the cells are full. They don't accept it anymore.

Now, the technical word is called insulin resistance, because the doors that open the cell for glucose are the insulin receptors, the insulin doors. And when they're full, they say, thank you, we want no more. And that's exactly what happens.

Keto, from having a different approach, stops this continuous high glucose, high insulin levels. And that is the mechanism.

And by changing that, you still have the energy, but you no longer have this continuous high carbohydrates hard glucose, and high insulin in your blood. I hope I'm not getting too technical, but in the basis, this is what it is.

So when you eat carbohydrates, your body produces glucose and insulin to get it basically into the cells, that takes time. If you then put in a second load.

So you just had your breakfast, and an hour later, you're gonna have your first snack, you're again pushing it up, and then you're gonna have your lunch, and then you're gonna have your. Whatever, your chocolate check or this. So you're constantly at this level. And the body, in a way, it's glucose poisoning.

So you get too much glucose and the body says, I have to store it. Where does it get stored? It's a little different for men and women. For men, it typically gets stored in the abdominal area.

For women, it's a lot around the hips and the upper legs and so on, and also a little bit on the sides. But that is where the signs are of metabolic unhealthy.

Or it's also called insulin resistance is the official term, but you could basically call it overdosing on glucose. You have a glucose, you're starting to get a glucose intolerance because your body can no longer absorb all the glucose.

You're talking a lot about carbs and fat. And maybe the next avenue we could go down is macronutrients.

And the ratio of macronutrients and calories related to those and how those work in the ketogenics diet makes sense.

I think we talk about metabolic health. There's a lot of people, because you hear a lot of things about the benefits of keto, and they're definitely there.

A lot of people say, oh, you know, can keto cure everything? And what keto does, it's a very fast intervention to restore your metabolic health. But there are other ways of doing it.

If you remove the sunflower oil and other seed oils that are high inflammatory from your diet, and if you remove processed foods, then you already are an amazing step along the way into improving your metabolic health. If, however, you want the benefit of the ketones as the fuel, then you have to go one step further.

And then you have to go to below 30 grams of carbohydrates a day. Now, at first you say 30 grams, that's okay.

But if you actually keep track of what you're eating, all day, then 30 grams of carbs are eaten quite quickly.

So in that sense, having a journal or using an app to track that, certainly in the beginning is good because you very easily find that something where you didn't think that there were any carbs that might be in there. I had a conversation with somebody last week, and that person was eating a lot of meat, but couldn't get into burning fat.

Well, he said, I eat a lot of sausages and a lot of meat. I said, did you ever look on the back of the packaging? I said, no. I said, well, did you know that there's sugar in hempen?

And he was kind of like, no way, no way. You know, this is just your meat. I said, well, you better.

And he found out that the ham that he so much liked had 30 grams sugar per 100 grams in different forms. So, you know, it's so tasty. Yeah, of course it's so tasty.

Of course it's taste.

There's two steps. There's a big step you can already take without doing a full keto diet where you actually are on the way.

But if your metabolic health is not good, it'll take more time. It might take one or two years before you turn around. Diabetes, too, or it might take longer.

And if you do what I call intervention, if you go one step further for two to three months of going below 30 grams, you go below 30 grams. So you reduce it 30 grams, your body does not have enough energy, doesn't have enough energy for you to move.

So the moment that happens, the body says, okay, I'm going to switch to this other fuel. And the moment you do that, you are what they call in ketosis.

You can measure the ketones in your blood or in your urine or in your breath, and from that moment on, you are actually burning fat. You're producing ketones. And the ketones have some advantages over glucose. One is you don't have this glucose intolerance problem.

So the ketones directly go into your cells and directly go into your brain. And what's really interesting is that the brain, when it has a choice between ketones and glucose, it will always choose ketones.

So it's a preferred fuel.

The other thing, and this sounds really odd, is if you have a lot of glucose in your blood, you also have a lot of insulin in your blood, and their levels in your brain will be different because there's a percentage there. But because of the high insulin also in your brain, the brain can no longer take up the glucose.

So what's strange is that, in a way, your blood is full of supposedly energy, this glucose, but your brain cannot use it anymore. And this what we typically call getting older, I'm tired of, I have no energy. I have a bit of brain fog.

It doesn't really give me that clarity that I'm used to. I have to think, oh, what was this again? You know, it's there, but I cannot grasp it. And then we say, oh, yeah, well, I'm 40, I'm 50, I'm 60.

It's just part of life. Well, it might just be that your brain doesn't have the right energy.

And so one of the things that happens is you reduce your carbs to under 30 grams, your body starts producing ketones. And within a few days, people start saying, my brain fog is lifted. I have more clarity, I have more energy.

All of that because if clean energy directly goes into the cells, does a keto diet cure diabetes or whatever? I wouldn't say that, but it's a great mechanism to restore your metabolic health and to get the system to work properly again.

It's not some magic pill that you pop and then everything okay. It's not ozempic.

One of the things that's a very common question asked is this keto flu symptoms. So the point at which the body is switching from one energy source to another energy source causes a bit of unpleasant feelings.

And from what I understand, people who do this switch frequently, those symptoms kind of lessen because the body becomes a little bit more acclimated. Maybe you could talk a little bit about the keto flu. And you mentioned some supplements.

Are the supplements directly related to helping with those that transition, or the supplements.

Also for, like, more of the questions packed into one?

I know Megan's good with that.

Let me, let me try and break it down.

I think the first thing for someone to switch over from burning carbs to burning fat, so from producing glucose upon the ketones, is a natural process. So it's nothing special. Everyone can do it, because as a human being, this is part just like we breathe.

And what many people don't know is when a baby is born, the baby is actually born in ketosis. So this is a fully natural process. So it's not something, oh, I can't get into ketosis or I cannot do that. Everyone can do it.

If you're the first time, your body needs to remember that you haven't done it probably that often, or you were only there as a baby, and then you started eating seven, eight meals a day. But everyone can do it now. What happens is the moment you reduce your carbohydrates, the body first uses up whatever has stored in the fast storage.

The glycosades that are stored that are easy stores of energy.

These will get depleted 24 48 hours, roughly, sometimes maybe a little bit longer, but not that much longer because the body cannot really store that much. It's kind of the floating glucose. Once these are empty, your body needs to switch.

If it hasn't done that for a long time, it might take a little bit longer. So you will have a moment when those storage facilities are empty, that before your body switches to fat.

That is a moment when you might feel tired, when you might have no energy, when you feel like you really cannot take another step. Now, how severe that is or whatever, that really depends. But typically that's okay. It might last a few hours that you feel.

And then once that is done and you switch over to ketosis, you immediately get this energy back. Some people who do fasting will remember this, that you fast.

You have a moment that you had realized that you've depleted all your fast energy sources. And then once you get through this, you get the feeling you have unlimited energy and you have no need for food. This is exactly the same process.

This has nothing to do with fluid. Also doesn't feel like heat food. It just feels that you are very, very tired and so on.

Once you've switched, then your body starts using up the storage. Furthermore, in your body and with dioxide levels and so on, your body also uses fluid. And in the fluids are minerals.

Minerals and electrolytes is pretty much the same word. And if you lose those minerals, then you start getting headache, cramps, things like that.

The same is true if you do high intensity workout, you sweat a lot, you lose a lot of fluid. You might feel exhausted, tired, muscle ache, headache, whatever. This has nothing to do with the sports you've done.

This has everything to do with minerals that your body has lost by sweating and by using them. So restoring those minerals, restoring the electrolytes is very, very important. And this is just the. So there's nothing to do with ketone itself.

It has just to do that. As your body uses up the glycoside storage, it also sets free the fluids. The same.

When it starts burning fat that's also attached in those cells, there's also fluids. So those fluids, as you flush them out, you will also lose those minerals. So that's, in my opinion, essential to restore them.

I would even say for people who are longer on the keto diet, if your metabolism works correctly, you will actually use more of those in the process in your life. So you start adding more salt into your food, you start maybe drinking electrolytes or all of that.

But I would say to do a keto diet properly, definitely take the electrolytes. That's essential.

Yeah. And I have to add that when I went into ketosis, I made sure to have a ton of electrolytes, bone broth, and water.

And I did not experience the keto flu.

I didn't consume a lot of carbs beforehand, but I'm coaching my dad, who has diabetes and high cholesterol and everything at the moment to the keto lifestyle, and he's been doing it for a month now. And same goes for him. So we really made sure that he's drinking enough liquids and he's having electrolyte specifically, but also bone broth.

And he did not experience the keto flu at all.

So it is something that can actually save you right in quotation marks from just feeling like crap for maybe three days or a week where you're just rehydrating your body.

I'm glad you made this comment, Dan. And you can also make a bone broth because that also has these minerals, so you don't necessarily have to take a pot of capsules, all of that.

It's just an easy way to do that.

And especially if you take electrolytes that have been developed or where the composition is made specifically for keto, then you have a few other things added that make it even easier. So I would definitely recommend it to everyone.

And just like everything, not all electrolytes are created equal. So just bear that in mind as well.

My next question is about the difference between men and women. Uh, from a hormonal point of view, going into ketosis and having keto as part of a lifestyle.

When I was researching this a couple years ago, women of childbirthing years, when they have their normal hormonal cycles for the month, it is my understanding that there can be consequences for a woman using this kind of lifestyle.

And there's something called carb loading, where in between you need to pop out of this to load carbs to balance the hormones in terms of making sure that the hormone production stays in because they need carbs to do hormone production. Is any of that correct, or how does that play into it for women specifically?

Well, first of all, men and women are different. Most of the scientific studies are focused on healthy white males, and we often seem to disregard women.

But there's lots of research recently been going on, also studying women, also studying healthy women and so on.

And definitely as women go into the monthly cycle, their metabolism changes, the body starts getting ready for potentially starting a pregnancy, or there's hormonal levels that change. There's also glucose levels that change and so on. I think the most important is just to be aware of that.

In terms of carbohydrates or glucose, what many people don't know, it is not an essential nutrient. What does it mean? If the body doesn't have enough glucose, it'll produce it itself.

And if the body needs it for its hormone production, it will produce it. If the body needs it for its red blood cells, it will produce it. I would still recommend that you hover somewhere around 30 grams a day.

There's no need to go below it. But let's say if you would go to zero carbs, it's not a problem. It's not a problem at all because your body will produce the carbohydrates.

But I think it's important that you realize as a woman, that in this period, that things will go up and down and certain levels will. So when you monitor and all of that, that is important.

I am not an expert in the field at all on women, but I am in contact with quite a few that are really specialized on this to do that and to monitor that. But there's nothing dangerous about it.

You just need to realize that you might be measuring your glucose levels and that they might be going up even though you're not eating more glucose, but that's just your body.

I knew the part about where the body can create its own carbohydrates, but it usually cannibalizes muscle tissue to do that. So for me, it doesn't sound like a long term solution.

And that kind of gently glides me into my next, because you mentioned at the beginning, like, three months. Do this for three months, but you can think about it as a long term solution.

So my question is this something that somebody should use to maybe lose weight so they can start exercising again without pain and without joint issues, and then they try to then go into a lower carb diet, like, I think you said 130 grams or something, like, how do we transition that? And is the Atkins diet? Because I've researched that a lot.

I feel like that does something like that where it takes you really low, but then over the course of a year or two years, it gets you to a level where you can have, like, carbs on a daily basis, but it. It's the amount of carbs that doesn't let your body tip into the fat generation. So it kind of keeps you. Do you have thoughts on.

Yes, the five questions that I just asked you.

Thank you for. I did it again in so many. Yes, I do have thoughts.

The reason I say three months is because within a week or two weeks, your style start noticing change.

Personally, I switch between the two. I typically do three months keto and then one month low carb.

But one of the things which I hope and which I also see is that people who've done keto for two or three months, who've started to look at the label, started to realize that what they put in their bodies immediately impacts their moods, their health, their everything that they hopefully, when they transition out of there, don't go back to the same poor diet or poor food choices that they were making before. If that is the case, then that's a win. So some people will not.

But that's why I strongly encourage everyone to do a two or three month keto intervention to understand and to learn how magnificent our bodies are and what happens if you change what you put in. You know, often I get to ask a question and say to people, hey, if you have a car and your car runs on petrol, would you put diesel in the car?

And everyone says, no, no, because my car will break down.

Well, if you go and look out in the streets and it doesn't matter where you go in Europe or in the US or you see what we put in our mouth the entire day, and then we expect this machine, this car, this body to run in Toronto condition until we're 60, 70, 80 or whatever, and it is just not the way. And there keto can really help. I was in Germany two months ago, and I was there on the weekend, and there was a gym very close to my hotel.

So I went to the gym on Sunday morning. It was actually a beautiful day, so there were not many people.

And there was one woman, I guess she was 24, she was seriously overweight, and she was standing on this treadmill. I was in the gym for an hour, definitely not more. For an hour. She was on the treadmill, and I felt really sorry for her.

You know why because I think she's going to be doing that 1 hour. It's not going to give her anything. She might use up a little bit of this storage, but that's it. And she will immediately replenish it.

She will not lose any fat.

And no matter what diet she's going to do, she's going to be suffering.

And she's probably never going to get rid of this overweight, because unless she reverses this insulin resistance, unless she reverses situations she's in, well, no matter what other diet she does, she's never going to get there. And with the keto intervention, ketone nutrition plan, keto diet, this is actually something that you can do in a relatively short period of time.

So transitioning out of it, hopefully, people get educated enough that they think, okay, now I'm not only going to eat ice cream and fast food and processed food, but there was a big saying in Holland that one of the big fast food chains had said that in the french fries, there's only potatoes and nothing else. But actually they're sugar added, which they hadn't mentioned in their marketing campaign. So somebody took them to court and wanted to address.

But, you know, so it's very difficult to know that. But what I hope and what I see is that most people transition out of a keto diet in a better way.

One is because they've partly restored their health, so if they eat the occasional ice cream, there's not going to be immediately, you know, what you hear often people saying, I'm dieting, but then I've lost five kilos, but I take one ice cream, and meat is back on my hips. If you don't fix the metabolic problem, that's exactly what's going to happen.

If you diet and you do calorie restriction, your body is just going to turn down the thermostat and we're just going to burn. Use less energy, and you're immediately going to gain it. So I think that's important. Your comment about the Atkins diet. Atkins diet is a keto diet.

There are many different keto diets. There's the Atkins, there's the modified Atkins, there's different keto diets as well.

There's the dirty keto diet, which is only bacon and eggs, also being ketosis, whether that's healthy or not, it's something for everyone to decide.

I believe that it's good to have a plate of variety and different things, but there's many different keto diets because in principle, the only thing a ketone nutrition plan has to do is reduce the carbs to 30 grams of.

So what you can do is you can stuff yourself with cupcakes, with sweetener rather than sugar, and you'll be in ketosis whether nutritionally you get everything you need. I doubt it. And whether that's going to be a long term sustainable solution.

But in a way, doing a keto diet well and properly is just, yeah, taking out the right recipes and doing that and not going blindly and say, you know, there's plenty of vegetables you can eat, plenty of things you can eat, and many, many choices. And really, I think it's a nice journey. It's a discovery, first of all, about your own body.

What happens, as I mentioned earlier, most people do this for 60%, people do this for weight loss. They believe that their entire health is okay. But it's interesting, why do those kilos get stuck there?

Basically, too much glucose that doesn't get into the cells and does get stored as fat.

I'd like you to talk a little bit about what the options are for a how people know they're in ketosis, and then what your services and products that you offer that can help people get in, do this beginning part and actually probably into the full three months or beyond.

Yeah. Well, to start with, the first question, how do you know if you're on ketosis? There are three different ways of measuring it.

You can measure it in your urine with a urine stick. This will tell you if you're on ketosis or not.

They're good, they're cheap, but they're not very precise, so they will give you sort of an idea, I'm in ketosis or nothing. But once you're doing this a little bit longer, you might want to know, hey, what happens if I take this food? And how does my body respond to that?

Because for everyone, that will be different. But that's one. Urine sticks. We also offer them, actually.

Then the second way is using breath, because you have different types of ketones and some actually exit via your breath. They are not cheap to buy, they cost a few hundred euros, but after that you can use them as often as you want. They measure a little bit differently.

So it takes a little bit getting used to, but they serve the purpose. The preferred way though, is doing it with a blood ketone meter, which is a blood glucose meter that can also measure ketones.

There are several on the market with go keto. We have our own go ketometer, which is the number one in Europe.

And you take a small finger prick and this is really precise, down to the one decimal behind the comma to give you a very precise measurement. Tells you, and my ketosis also can help you and say, hey, you know, I've just eaten this measure half an hour, an hour later, what has it done to me?

So this is definitely the preferred way.

The meter is typically, I think, something like 30 €40 to buy, and then strips hover somewhere, depending on the quantities, you buy somewhere around ninety five cents to a euro per strip. So quite accessible.

To do that in the beginning, you probably want to measure a bit more, say four, three, four times a day afterwards probably once or twice a day. That really depends. Just to let you know. I actually also still measure, maybe not every day, but every now and then it's like to know where I am.

We actually support it with an app where you can track your ketones and your glucose levels and where you can see it over time.

Also, we have a macro tracker inside the app where you can basically keep food journals and in a way to, rather than using a piece of paper or an excel sheet or something like that to write everything down, you can just put it in the app and just say, okay, this was my breakfast, or whatever. So that's kind of on the measurement side.

So, to summarize, three urines, cheap, fast, but they give you an indication, not very precise breath, to buy the device. One off is a few hundred euros, but after that there's zero cost and you can pour food choices.

And then we go to a white coat and basically breathe into it as often as you like. The blood is really the gold standard, the easiest and the fastest, the most precise to really find as you move along.

I think that was one of the questions. So why do we help? Well, we help. And this is also why I started the company.

I started a company eleven years ago realizing how more and more people were suffering from all these western diseases and we're getting more unhealthy, more sick. It just seems very strange that we kind of then ask our doctors or our medical specialists to fix it.

So first we stuff ourselves, our entire lives, with saying, now you need to fix this. The amount of western diseases in all kinds of different ways that are related to metabolism is growing every day.

Recently, last year, lots have been coming out about mental disorders, which are caused by poor food choices, but also other psychiatric conditions, Alzheimer's conditions, all kinds of medical conditions, of course, diabetes, two cancer, whatever we've spoken about. And all of them have a metabolic component as a key cause of it.

So that's where I started my company eleven years ago, because I wanted to help people do that. Originally started with a supplement for cardiovascular health.

And then gradually we moved into the keto space a little bit by coincidence, because we were selling a cholesterol meter and we sell your ketometer. Everyone was buying a ketometer, and I thought, oh, are these all sick people? And these were all healthy people.

Are people doing this for their health out of their own motivation, not going to a doctor and saying, oh, I am sick, can you fix me? But it's difficult. I don't know where I can find information. I'm looking for this product and so on, and I can only find stuff in the US.

I'm not sure what I can trust or not. That basically led to the birth of Gokito as a brand.

So we decided, and this is now eight years ago, so we decided to actually create the whole go keto space, which is a meter, which is supplements, which is also keto food. So we have keto granolas and keto bread bake mixtures and keto jams and electrolyte drinks and what have you.

But we also have lots of keto information, so information on how to do it. We have a five day and an eight weeks program to help people. And I think this is very important.

We work with lots of people like Dana, to guide you, to help you, because we don't offer coaching ourselves, but we do work with experts like today here on the call, who can guide you much better. So we can give you the tools, we can give you the information.

We can give you the products to replace your bread with keto bread to replace your muesli or canola with our canola.

We can give you lots of information, but if you want real one on one coaching or group coaching, whatever, you can use one of the preferred coaches that we have on our european network, and I think one of the top ones is here on the podcast.

Amazing talk today with you, Ben. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you.

And we hope to have you on some other future time with even more in depth, because I feel like we missed some things we didn't talk about intermittent fasting. We didn't talk about food. There's so many more topics that we could talk about.

So we'll be excited to have you back to talk about more of those things. And if our listeners have questions for Ben, of course you can go to him directly, but you can also leave us a little voice memo.

The link will be in the description. You can ask your question, and maybe we'll feature your question in a future episode with Ben. Thank you, everyone, and have a good day.