Today’s BEP Talks episode explored the sensitive topic of church hurt and the journey toward healing with Lois White, speaker and author of Church Hurt Healed. Drawing from her own experiences, Lois shared how betrayal, manipulation, and toxic leadership within the church can leave lasting emotional and spiritual wounds. We dove into the importance of forgiveness, rebuilding trust, finding supportive communities, and rediscovering faith beyond painful experiences.

If you or someone you know has ever felt wounded by a place meant to offer love and belonging, this heartfelt conversation offers hope, encouragement, and a reminder that healing is possible.

Ready to begin your own journey toward restoration? Check out her book here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1969338261?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback

Well, hey there, and welcome to this edition of BEP Talks, where wonderful, generous people from all around the world, from all walks of life, industries, professions, all ages and stages, come to share their beliefs.

Experiences and passions. BEP. That is what BEP is all about. It gives everyone their own stage to share.

what they wish to share, very important messages, whether to inspire, to educate, to entertain, to motivate.

And I love that every guest comes with such an open heart to really give to our listeners.

Today's no exception.

My guest today is Lois White, who is the author of Church Hurt Healed.

It's a compassionate.

Honest guide for anyone who has been wounded by the church, whether through slander, manipulation, betrayal, toxic leadership, any sense of hurt, and with grace and truth.

Lois walks her readers through the path from pain to restoration, offering practical wisdom.

and spiritual insight for every step of the healing journey. And I say that with great certainty because Lois herself has overcome being hurt by the church. She is a speaker. She is an author. She is my very, very special guest today. Please welcome Lois White.

Thank you so much, Beth. What a wonderful introduction. I'm so pleased to be here.

And I am so delighted to have you here and I thank you very much for being a guest on BEP Talks.

You speak from experience, which makes this such a perfect BEP Talks, Beliefs, Experiences, and Passions. I know this is something you are very passionate about because you have experienced it.

Yes.

You are a speaker and author and you are someone who has survived having been hurt by the church.

Just for our listeners sake, when you describe, the word church, you know, we often think of the building, the place that we go to.

But would you define what church actually is?

Well, actually, the church really is the body of Christ. It's everybody. The people. That's really what it is in the scripture. It is the people. It is absolutely the people. But we normally think about it as the building, to your point.

is.

And what's happening is that we're living in a time where more and more people.

are not going to church in the building. There's no community with the church, there's no accountability with the church, and it's a dramatic problem, and it's something that can be changed.

And that's one of the pieces of church hurt as well. I'd like to see people go back to church. Yeah. But I'd also like to see the church really be the church of Jesus Christ.

Amen. Yeah, yeah. To go back to the basis of its very existence.

Exactly.

What happens in the church, meaning not just the building, but through the body of the people who create that community, who, whether they go to that building or not, but are part of that church community.

Things that happen through church can happen anywhere, actually. But why is church hurt different? Why does it feel.

I'm just going to say it. Why does it feel so much more egregious?

Oh, yeah. You're right. You are right.

Well, see, that's it. You hit it on the head, frankly. What it comes down to is church hurt is a special level of offense. Church is a sacred space. We all think of church as a place we're supposed to be able to go for healing, for peace.

For a community of great people.

Unfortunately, one of the things I learned, and I laugh about it, but it's true, but it's also understanding, and that is.

I had this idea that I'd go to church, and I'd find this community of people, everybody's nice, everybody's good all the time, and blah. They're people! They're just people, like all the rest of the people.

And that other thing we describe as everybody's nice, that's heaven. We're not there.

Right.

There yet, right, so we're trying to get there, but we're not there yet.

But, no, the church is made up of people and all that that means. And the beauty of this opportunity to address church hurt means that we can work together, because we have a vested interest.

And working together to make the church what it ought to be. There is no war, as far as I'm concerned, between laity and the ministry. It shouldn't be. We should work at this together. And it's something that's very important to me.

Right. Oh, I totally agree. Not that we just can work, but we must, we should.

We must!

I agree. Absolutely.

Absolutely.

It is ours. We have ownership of it.

That's right. That is so true.

Right. And clergy are not.

They have a different role in the church, perhaps, but they don't exist without us. We don't exist the same way without them. So I guess.

is.

Always understanding and knowing that.

We, the church, the people.

are just based, you know, we're a bunch of humans.

That's right.

And not to confuse.

The weakness of… Humanity or lack sometimes maybe of humanity versus the love.

and the power of God, the very.

That's correct.

God and why we go there. So I guess it feels like an extra painful, Hurt.

That's true.

Where we want to be able to go for that comfort.

That's right.

Is not found there.

It's not found there. And, and let me say, this is not all churches everywhere. We know this, right?

Oh, no, no, no.

No, no, no. But this is why… and that's also what makes it so difficult to talk about, because you want people

To love the church.

Yes.

Even when you have a bad experience there, you want people to love the church. I had my experiences with the individual, you know, a couple of individuals. It wasn't the whole church, it wasn't the pastor. It was a couple, you know, a couple of individuals, but they were in leadership and, you know, it was.

It was awkward and very difficult, but the bottom line is that I didn't really want to go around and tell people about it, but you kind of.

You have to like unload somewhere, right? That kind of thing where you have to talk to God about it. So I walked through and I wanted to, and I intentionally waited until I was healed to address this.

Oh!

Which had to take a lot of,

Courage and strength for, for you, so you mentioned something,

It's not every church, it's not every person, it's not everywhere. One time is more than enough. One person, you know, a rotten apple, as they would say.

Does it happen more than we are aware of? Are people

Because of the extra sensitivity of it, a little bit reluctant to come forward and talk about it, you yourself said that you waited until you had healed from it.

Are people reluctant to share?

People are very reluctant to share. First of all, there's a fear about the backlash because it's not an easy thing to do.

I actually, when I left that situation, I actually was given a gag order that I better not talk about some of the things that went on. Right, exactly. And I didn't. I didn't. There was one person I confided into, confided with who who, although she was in the church, I had known her as a person, and she understood the whole dynamic.

But even with her, I didn't share everything, because she went to the church. I wanted her to have a better attitude about the church. It's really an awkward situation.

And yet…

I couldn't continue to go there because I knew what it was for me. Yeah, yeah. Compared to what it appeared to be.

Yeah, I think, you know, like in reference to the person, whoever that may be that you're referring to, you take it so personally that you want to kind of maybe pretend that it didn't happen. But it did happen. It happened to you. It's happened to too many people.

What I love about this book and about your story, and I am sorry that you have this story to share, is that it is possible to restore faith.

Absolutely.

After feeling betrayed.

Yes, yes.

How… talk to us about that process.

Well, first of all, one of the problems with church hurt is that, in my case, what it left me struggling with is, how is it possible for this to happen in the church?

How does God not monitor his house, that kind of thing, and of course he is, but we have to trust God.

We have to trust God. And so, that being the case.

The reality of that trust means that you've got to, as you mentioned earlier, you've got to separate God.

From the church, and gotta recognize that people are people.

And you have to to understand that and at the end of the day.

We all… you have to walk with God. You start when the first thing you do, when you realize what you're in, is that you've got to go to God. That's the number one thing. You've got to do that. And this process of healing is all about a closer relationship with Him.

Really sharing your inner thoughts. It's not like he doesn't know. He knows anyway, right? He knows.

For sure, yeah.

thing that happened and he knows why. So, you know, it's it's it it is a healing process, but it's it's comforting.

It is. Well, it's comforting to know that there's someone like yourself who truly understands it and can empathize. So, when you are helping to guide someone through the book, through the information in the book.

What is it that you advise them or suggest, that they do?

to restore their faith after that terrible feeling of betrayal. In other words, going to where you're looking for comfort and peace and love.

And you get the opposite. What is that process?

Well, in the book, I outline 10 steps, which, of course, I'm not going to do here, but it's 10 steps. But it starts with that close relationship.

You've got to go through the process of forgiveness. You got to. You gotta let it go. You gotta put it in God's face. And by the way, forgiveness, I have to say.

is not endorsing what anyone did that was wrong. What it means is that you decide to put at the feet of Jesus and be free. That's really what it comes down to. And it's a decision that when you consider, or when I considered.

that, with my own life, honestly, when I first… when I first got saved, that was one of the… that was literally the first thing God required of me. Okay, you've got to forgive so-and-so.

And the first thing I'm thinking, what? But then I thought, and what he said to me was, I forgave you.

That was it. That was enough. And that has stuck with me.

throughout my Christian walk all my life because it's the truth. God forgave us. We can forgive anybody. And it doesn't make it right. It doesn't mean you have to be around them. It doesn't, you don't have to be exposed to any of that anymore ever. But you have to forgive and be free. And you pray for that person because that's a sad thing too.

Yeah, yeah. And of course, going back to Jesus himself, those who were among…

Some of the very last words that he spoke.

Forgive them.

Right, that's right. That is so true. That is true.

Yeah, so it is to be… Wow.

You know, we're talking about the humanity of the offender, but there's also the humanity of he or she who has been offended. And it has to take a lot to dig down deep and…

To be willing to forgive and to say I'm capable of it because there, there's so much better.

that.

than what has happened. And it's become a very…

Personal, obviously, and a very passionate mission for you.

Yes.

Yes.

Create a safe and honest space for people who have been hurt by the church.

That's true. And.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm sorry, go ahead.

No, no, no, I'm just saying it's very, very powerful and not to say that.

Well, you know what, who am I to say that had you not gone, had you not

Been put through it.

Would this book have ever come?

It would never have come. It would never have come.

And that's the good news about this for me, because healing is not a linear

accomplishment, frankly. It just isn't, particularly when it comes to healing. Healing is first a decision, and that's what's instantaneous. I don't know if you've heard this, but on many times, I've heard.

sermons, let's say if they're preaching on offense, one of the first things you always hear is, oh, get over it. You know, like.

Yeah.

You just get over it. The reality is that people are not like that, unless you have some kind of supernatural intervention. Most people, if it's an egregious situation, they don't just get over it. But they can make the decision immediately.

That they're going to forgive, and they're going to work on the forgiveness, and when it comes up, they make the choice to pray about it, and to forgive and release it, because it is a choice, and then ease, you know, in time it always…

It's… easier and easier.

course.

That's great.

Yeah, that's true in any relationship, you know, with a spouse.

That's true.

partner, anybody, people in business, to say get over it is almost to say pretend it didn't happen. And that's not exactly. That's not at all what it should be. It's to say that it did happen.

It did happen.

And we have to address it.

there's.

To fix it.

You do have to address it. You have to accept it, I guess, in your own…

Time and space and place.

Exactly.

And.

also.

Told to just, to just dismiss it. Is it necessary? If it's fair to ask you this, Lois, is it necessary when you're trying to forgive someone using church hurt as an example?

To actually… Directly confront the offender to say, I forgive you,

When they haven't even asked for it and might not even think they've done anything wrong.

Oh.

always.

That's a good point.

Yeah. Is it something that really just is a strength that comes from within based on your relationship with God?

Exactly. It's probably something that I could do, but I've not felt led to do that. But you know, you could, if God feels that you need to do that, or if it's needed in that situation, I would certainly do it. I have not been led to do that with this particular person.

Okay. Okay. You know, and you know.

It's not just, it's a couple people, but it's, you know, one particular, one person in particular. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, we've heard, which amazes me all the time, the strength that some people have when, as an example.

A family member has been killed.

Hmm.

And.

They say I forgive the killer, the strength that that must take. And yet the peace, the peace that I hope it gave them. And I pray that.

That it gave you.

You know, there's a great saying, take your mess and make it your message.

That's right. That is so true. That is true.

that's kind of, what you've done. So.

you.

Who is this book really for?

This book is for those people who have been hurt but want healing because I want people to have

a roadmap, if you will, to healing, because again, it's such a lonely process. And through this, people will get an opportunity to

may hopefully see themselves in a lot of situations, walk through that in the time that it takes them to walk through it. And again, that's a… it's not linear, it might take… it took me a long time to write this book.

a while. And then, even after I wrote it, I'm thinking, is this going to cause a stir or a problem? But, you know, it was like this thing, and I actually did go to

a pastor that I… that I was with at the time, and he gave me permission. In fact, he told me he knew that this was something that I needed to do. And so, I… you know, because I wanted to be under authority, I didn't want to be in rebellion against the church and all this. But at the same time, I knew that God

Put it in my spirit to do this, right? So.

Yeah, no.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Did you feel it was necessary to get permission?

You know, that's a good question. That's a very good question. I didn't feel it was really necessary because God told me to do it, but I felt more comfortable. And I think it has to do with my conditioning and my relationship with the church over the years. I have heard so much about being under authority. I've heard so much about.

And I… and I… I… well, bottom line is.

I don't think I had to have permission, but I wanted to have permission.

Yeah.

That's what it was.

So it had to be the whole process of writing the book had to be very cathartic.

Oh, extremely so. Extremely.

So Lois, had you gone through the restoration of your faith and had you already forgiven?

So that you could write the book or was writing the book part of that actual process?

Once again, you really ask great questions. Actually, you really do. But anyway.

Actually,

When I was going through the healing process, I was taking notes because I wanted to, it was just a, it was note taking. I'm a writer, you know, just by nature.

Yes, yes.

And so I was taking notes, I was writing, I knew that I was gonna write the book eventually, but

But it was one of those things that, one day, you know, kind of thing. But, you know, I didn't feel like I had a deadline or something. But, to your point, writing it was cathartic, but it got to the point that after I was… I felt really healed and whole, because for me.

I wanted to be.

If you can imagine, it's sort of like deliverance, right?

It's one thing to be delivered.

It's quite another thing to be made whole.

I wanted the wholeness. I want it all. I want my life back in Christ. I want… I want it all. And that's… and that's what I needed, and that's what I was… I'm offering through this book. Oh, I love that.

I love…

Yeah, yeah, your your faith walk is really.

test it in that situation, when you're in that situation, because you're thinking, how come this happened here and with these people, right? But it did. But they're people, and God just gives you that understanding, and it's grace. There's so much grace.

That God just gives us.

This is, this is, I'm gonna very, were you ever mad at God?

Oh, oh, let me tell you. Let me tell you, that's a story. Now, that's a story. You know, throughout all this process, Beth, honest to God, mind you.

I was praying for these people long before there was a big breakup, because it was… this… it wasn't like an incident that caused this. This… this is stuff that I went through over years, right? So, it was… it was a lot. So, when it was finally over, I mean, I'd been praying for these people all along, right? So…

You know, I didn't think about that. So I knew about forgiving them. I knew about forgiving the situation.

One day, God just quietly whispered to me, but have you forgiven me?

I broke down and cried for the first time. I never cried before. I broke down in tears because it never occurred to me that I had blamed God for all that happened. It didn't occur to me.

So, it, it just… that, that was really what did it, you know, it's like, oh my God, I am so sorry. But, you know, and it was okay. It's a… God is completely comfortable with wherever we are and what we are actually feeling.

He's a big boy.

He's a big boy, he can.

He's a big one. He is so loving. He is so loving.

You know what? That's all. That's the definition. So aside from being a guide, a journey that you share your journey to help others walk the path for their own healing, this book also serves as a very valuable resource.

For counselors and coaches, pastors and anyone walking alongside someone else.

who has been victimized by the church. In other words, if someone has confided in another.

you.

this has happened to them. This is a good resource for all of those people.

Are you aware that if, if, They who offended you.

Have sought their own redemption?

Through… through this?

I… I have no idea. I have no idea.

I couldn't tell you, and I'd be speculating if I were to say.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So they never came to you and asked for forgiveness?

Oh, no. They were in power. Very much in power.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay. Which I kind of asked that not to be too personal, but to say…

Because there's different schools of thoughts on that you can forgive someone.

Who has not yet asked to be forgiven.

And that's for yourself. That's for your own healing. It's not about them.

They're on their own.

That's exactly.

Exact right. They have to seek forgiveness. How they choose to, if they even think that they need to be forgiven of anything. That's their problem. That's their walk.

That's exactly correct.

Right. That's the badge.

That's the way I see it. Yeah.

Right. That's the baggage they may have to unpack one day. That's right. But you didn't want to walk around carrying that baggage for them or because of them. You wanted to unpack it and you did. And now through this wonderful book, you're helping others.

To be able to do the same. And… Probably one of the…

great gifts that you give people through this book. There are so many. But to say you're not alone. I get it. I understand.

Yes, that's true. That is true.

not talking textbook kind of stuff. I've been there. I've walked that path. I've been dragged down that path. However you want to look at it.

But just.

Say, yeah, you know, you didn't choose it, but you were there. And I'm feeling, and I pray that I'm right about this, that through these experiences that you endured.

You're a bigger, better person.

Absolutely.

having gone through it.

Absolutely. It's one of the ways that, again, I, I got closer to God in a way that I never would have without this. And one of the beauties of this process is.

one of the… it came to me at one point that I started saying, you know, well, hurt people hurt people, heal people help people. And that's really what I wanted to do. I wanted to help people because I know that other people were struggling with this. I knew that when I was there.

people would come to me from time to time about what they were going through with certain people. And I understood, and I felt that my role, basically, was to assure them that, you know, this person is trying to work through their people, and they're working through their own, you know, issues, but more importantly, I want you to know that God loves you. And I don't mean that as a trite, oh, God loves you. It's the truth. It is so…

Yes, yes.

Yes.

It really is.

Yeah. And you can't lose that. That's the anchor. You can't lose that. Yeah. you know that when people get hurt or angry, they say, how could God let this happen? you know, that's that's a question. I kind of struggle with that. How could God let that happen? But.

People have free choice, they make, they make mistakes and that's now their opportunity to get.

That's right.

Back in better graces with God. That's not your issue.

That's right.

You're there for yourself.

That's correct.

I celebrate you, I celebrate you, and I applaud you. I am so sorry that you had to become a messenger of the of a of a story such as this.

But, you were chosen. And that's not to say, you know.

I think so.

Get over it. No, no, no, no, no. You have.

By the grace of God.

Absolutely. But for the grace.

Absolutely.

Yes.

Be you can be a help to so many other people. You know, your book is available on Amazon. It's gotten rave reviews around the world.

Yes.

the.

of time and

Maybe it's one of those like six degrees or no, they say it's four degrees of separation, where if it weren't you, then you might know someone who knows someone who knows someone who needs.

To know that faith can be restored.

Faith of course in God first and foremost but even faith in humanity because 1 or 2 people.

Who, are the offenders

are just one or two people, and I don't mean to make that sound trivial, but…

In their human condition.

It's giving them an opportunity to get Clearer. Closer.

And to be forgiven, not only by you, but by God himself.

That's true.

I applaud you for being able to extend that kind of compassion, that kind of grace.

To other people so that you could heal yourself.

Yeah.

I mentioned Lois that your book is available on Amazon.com.

The name of the book is Church Hurt Healed.

And I thank you for being brave enough to write the book.

Thank you.

I celebrate you, as I said, for coming forward and sharing a very, very sensitive situation with me today.

That we can share it with others and hope.

That it helps…

I hate to say many people that need to be helped in this regard. It's sad that they need it, but how wonderful for them, how blessed they are that they have your book to guide them.

Thank you so much for that. I appreciate it. Lois, thank you.

Thank you so much, Beth.

My absolute pleasure. And I say that with very mixed emotion. I think you get where I'm coming from.

Oh, of course I do. Thank you.

I appreciate that. And as I say to all of our listeners, please go get the book.

Church hurt healed because it might not be exactly what you have experienced. And I pray that it isn't. But somehow in it, you're going to find your own message for someone.

Outside of the church, outside in a relationship and an intimate relationship. What is your what is the relationship in the church? It should be an intimate relationship that can help you heal from whatever hurt you may be going through.

Lois, thank you again for being here and I say to all of our listeners, thank you as always, this is a tender topic.

For sure!

Thank you.

It's been my pleasure.

Thank you, Lois. And as I say to all of our listeners, please know that your story deserves to be shared as well. It will help other people.

If it helps just you.

That's good enough. If you help one person, you change the world. And that's quite an accomplishment.

In writing a book, in a day, in sharing a BEP Talks. So please, go to BEPTalks.com and schedule your BEP Talks so that people can hear about your beliefs, your experiences, and your passions.

And as we always say at the end of BevTalks, may the best always be yet to come. I pray that for each and every one of you. And again, Lois, thank you so much for being my guest today.

Thank you so much. It's been my pleasure.

My pleasure. Thank you.

Thank you.

For now.

Bye now.