JP Rindfleisch IX and Kathrese McKee discuss must-know tips for author collaborations.

ADDITIONAL LINKS:

https://www.jprindfleischix.com/

Book 3 of the Leah Ackerman series launched last month!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5XWG3G9

Story Hypothesis will be coming out in August (no link yet)

I also host coworking streams on Twitch with the pomodoro method.

https://www.twitch.tv/cheshirepope

The question of the week is: Share a collaboration you have been a part of or one you have in mind.

Get your free copy of the First Chapter Rubric.

Links:

WritingPursuits.com

Instagram: @WritingPursuitsPodcast

Three Story Method Certified Editor

KathreseMcKee.com

YourFirstChapter.com

Sometimes we miss out on the fact that like writing doesn't

have to be a solo project and never has to be a solo project

can if you want it to be but just like any other of the arts,

you can have a monologue or you can have a full theatrical

production, it doesn't matter. And so it's all there to make

art. And so that's really what I was like, let's do it. And it's

been a really fun ride since

a writing pursuits authors. Welcome back to the podcast. To

those of you who are new, I want to extend a special welcome. My

name is Kathrese McKee, and I'm glad you're here. If you are a

writer seeking encouragement, information and inspiration,

this podcast is for you. Let's get to it.

Today I have a guest JP Rindfleisch , Rindfleisch , and

we will be discussing author collaboration JP Rindfleisch is

the co author of the ongoing paranormal humor cereal in rds.

Yes, it does sound like nerds national recently deceased

services. I love it alongside Dialogue Doctor, J. Jeff Elkins,

and if you'll remember, there's a podcast a few times ago for

Jeff Elkins. In addition, JP also has an ongoing

collaboration with AB Cohen Cohen on a paranormal Academy

urban fantasy project, the LEAH Ackerman series, their

collaborations don't in there, and JP is also a co host of

Writer's Ink Podcast, where they engage in conversations with

authors about their publishing experiences alongside such names

as JD Barker, Christine Daigle, Kevin Tomlinson, and Patrick

O'Donnell on a local level.

And this is something I'm really jealous of. I think it's really

great. JP has created a group called Rockford Area Writers,

which seeks to uplift local authors through craft and

business and present them with opportunities to showcase their

work to the public. Wonderful. They are also a Three Story

Method Editor, offering services from editing to coaching to help

authors find their voice and confidence with their writing.

So I am so pleased to have JP on the program. Welcome JV.

Hello.

We haven't seen each other for like, almost two years.

Yeah, forever. I mean, it's been two months. We're online,

it is online. It doesn't count. Really? No, it doesn't not as

much as it should. It's not as much as we would wish it did. I

have a real easy question to begin with. One of the things

you do is that author group, can you tell us a little bit about

Rockford Area Writers?

Yeah, absolutely. So I would say a little under a year ago, I

went to my like, first local writers authors meet up. And I

realized that we had some groups in the area. But they just

didn't offer a platform for authors to talk to each other.

And it was really strange. We even have a guild in our area.

But every month they get together on a Zoom meeting. And

really, it's focused on one individual, but there isn't a

lot of time for conversation to really flow. Yeah, nor is there

a community to talk to you like they don't have a chat group. So

I was like, this is a area that's missing. I tried to offer

to kind of expand in those spaces, but no one was really

interested in that. So I said, I'll do it. And I made Rockford

Area Writers. So that's in. Yeah. And in collaboration with

the local independent bookstore hosted by Dave Patterson, he

hosts tons of events for authors. And I basically do as

much communication is I can to local authors to get us over

there. So it's this really fun joint collaboration for both

physical and online.

So your middle name is collaboration JP

Yes. Yes. 100%. Joke in a ton of slacks that I'm in that I will

not talk stop talking about community or collaboration. So

awesome. Mills. Great. So JP JP collaboration, Ryan, Rindfleisch

, the ninth. There we go. And then what is your most recent

collaboration? I guess you were he talked about that in your

bio. But which one is the newest one?

Well, there's another one. There's a potential one and I

don't think that she would be upset with me telling her them.

But Crys Cain, we may or may not know Crys Cain, yes. We may or

may not be working on something together. Both of us would be

using pen names for it. Just because exciting. Maybe or maybe

not in the spicy range of things. But okay. It is a really

fun project that we're we're kind of slowly going through. So

it's a very baby collaboration at the moment.

I could see that being a really great collaboration. Yeah,

it's been fun so far.

So how do you know collaboration? How did you know

collaboration was for you. Obviously, it seems to be part

of your personality. But how would somebody else know?

I didn't. So, authors on a train 2020 This would have been

January. So just before, what the thing we don't talk about,

but I went to LA. And I joined authors on a train, which is

being hosted by J. Thorne and Zach Bohannan. And we took a

train from LA to about San Francisco. And then we stayed in

this really big mansion. And there was about 10 of us. It was

100% haunted, but it was an Airbnb mansion.

Awesome.

And the whole goal of authors on a train was to write a short

story with another author. It was a collaboration project.

That was the whole goal of it. And so I was paired with AB

Cohen, ape, and we hit it off immediately, like on the train,

we became best friends. I didn't really know him before, I kind

of met him once or twice, but I didn't really know him before,

right, and we just hit it off. We were best friends. We were

like, Okay, we're gonna write, originally, we were going to

write an epic, like a really short story, epic fantasy. And

that immediately turned into horror. Because we were in a

haunted mansion, we had to talk about the merging, and

it's perfect. Yes.

So our first short story together was the rules, which is

available on both of our sites. And it does tie into the bigger

world that we then created. But I didn't know until I just did

it. Obviously, like I come from a manufacturing world, like

where, you know, you work together, you work in different

departments, but you're all kind of going to the same goal. So

many people experienced that same concept. And I think that

sometimes we miss out on the fact that like, writing doesn't

have to be a solo project, and never has to be a solo project

can if you want it to be but just like any other of the arts,

you can have a monologue or you can have a full theatrical

production, it doesn't matter. And so it's all there to make

art. And so that's really what I was like, let's do it. And it's

been a really fun ride since.

How do you choose your collaboration partners? Well,

obviously, that was serendipitous. But then you've

had other people since then. So and do you have a contract?

Yes. Okay. contract period, always every time. That one is,

that one's right there with I, when we are at the stage in

which we have the potential to make profit. I want a contract

signed. So like, I mean, the thing I mentioned with Crys,

like, we don't, we're not spending money, we're not

earning money at the moment, because we're just in those baby

first stages. So there's no big reason to start a contract right

there. I trust her enough. We've been friends for years, there is

no reason for that. But once we get to the stage where we need

to start spending money contract, doesn't matter how

close of a friend they are, contract.

Well, that's the way to keep to stay friends is really to have

it all worked out ahead of time.

Yeah, yeah. It's those weird and hard topics that you just have

to talk about, like, what what happens if I don't want to do

this project anymore? Well, an Abe and I is, like, we talked

about that. And we said, well, in that event, you know it

exists is our IP. So I may get like 25% of it if you work on a

solo project, within that story world, because we've created

this big expensive world. But we have that written down. So it is

clear. We have what happens when one of us dies, because again,

yeah, have to talk about it. Because it could happen. And it

did happen to Crys with one of her co writers.

So that makes me sad. But yeah,

it's unfortunate, but they had a contract. So it helped clarify

everything that needed to happen.

That's really wise advice. I really like to hear that. I

mean, I have contracts with my editing clients for the same

reason, just because, yeah, it spells everything out. And

everybody's grown up. And we have it all figured out ahead of

time. So I think that's great. I like the idea that you could

kick it around a little bit. But then when it comes down to you

know, push comes to shove, then you're going to have that

contract to settle everything. Great. So then that brings up

the other side of things, which is money, how do you split

expenses and income?

5050? Period,

but how do you I mean, do you like

Oh, for you? So with Abe and I tried to do the majority of it.

If he finds something, he's like, wow, let's really do this

project and he wants to head that up, then it's like, Okay, I

will find my 5050 to you. But otherwise, like, I'll be the one

that will take care of the invoices. Like we already talked

about this ahead of time, because of all the like plans

that I had, we were publishing under what's called Ninth

Publishing, which is my publishing and Associates,

because we just agreed that that would make sense. And then that

way, I host where all the publishing is happening and I do

all that. And so then when I get the income, I do all the splits

and what I need to do,

okay, well, I guess I was asking because I know that with

anthologies these days, it seems like they might go through is a

draft 2 digital? Who does work for you? Which fan, but takes

all the guesswork out of it, I guess. But yeah, I suppose I get

a split, or some kind of recompense for it. So you're

usually just split expenses. 5050 And I guess that also gets

spelled out in the contract.

Yes, it's spelt out 100% in the contract that when we have a

collaborative project, it is 50. But

I'm very much a kind of a control freak. So it's going to

be really hard for me to get involved. I've done anthologies

before, but that's still your story, you know, a little little

short story. How does a does having a writing collaboration,

partner spark or smother creativity? And how do you work

out style differences?

This is a big can of worms. So we're gonna start somewhere. So

when Abe and I started, we wrote the short story together, I

would recommend, if you have never read, or worked on a

collaboration before, so either read their work, the person that

you're gonna work with, or have never done a collaboration

before, write a short story with that person. Short Stories are

easy to get out of, you can be like, You know what, this is

great goodbye. Or you can keep going.

But short stories are the best way to figure out if that is a

good collab person to work with or not, i

That makes some sense.

Yeah, because like Abeand I, we, we were able to figure it out

really quickly. And in all honesty, in that first short

story, I took away a ton of Abe's voice because I was the

one that came in the back, and I cleaned everything up, and I

rearranged them. And I add that first. That was the first time I

collaborated with someone. And in my head it was how can I take

this work and really do everything I can to it. And in

the back of my head. I didn't know that what that meant, which

was how can I take this work and turn it into my own, though?

Okay, that's a very good thing. So Do y'all ask a third party

now to do your like cleanup work, as you call it?

So what what Abe and I do is he'll first draft. And then at

this point, because I, I learned where that barrier was, rather

quickly, actually with a because we talked about it, because

that's number one. It's a relationship, you have to

communicate.

Right? Right.

So it was a very quick communication, like, Hey, I feel

like you took my voice out, and we had a grown up conversation

about it out. And then ever since then, you know, he'll go

back and he actually reads it after I do my as good as I can

get it pass from his draft. And he'll just, you know, either

accept things or he'll kind of look through it. We send it off

to a couple people like we send it off to a copy editor and a

proofreader, we originally did developmental editor as well,

because we just wanted that verification. But really, it was

J. And after your third book, he felt like our ability to craft

the story wasn't we didn't need him anymore for this story. Oh,

such a grasp for it. So we've moved on to just doing the copy

editing and proofreading.

So what I heard was that because y'all go back and forth, then he

gets the final kind of like, okay, look, I feel like this, I

really want this line to be in there. I really want it to be

said this way. So he has to go back in and verify.

this, with the Leah Ackerman series, our main protagonist is

Jewish. And I actually pushed a to bring more of that in because

he is a Venezuelan immigrant and Jewish and I was like, we this

character is perfect. But we need more of that we need more

of that representation. So I pushed him to do that. And so

he, I let him craft those pieces and really bring to light those

pieces. And really when I come in and I do the edits for those,

I'm like, I take as much care around the edges as I can. I'm

just like, how can I make this sound better, but this is his

area. And I mean, like we both know our strengths and our

weaknesses when it gets to like weird occult-y stuff. Usually

that's where I come into play when like we're he's really good

at starting that and then I kind of just build off of that. So

it's we know where we enter play and where our weaknesses are at

this point.

Is that like, kind of urban fantasy horror?

It's a dark urban fantasy. What is its Yeah, it's a dark urban

fantasy secret societies and demons.

Oh, all right. Okay, I just talked about that. I did an

episode on fantasy tropes. And so that was, that was one of the

things I talked about was You know, secret societies and all

that kind of stuff.

Writing pursuits is run by Kathrese. McKee, who has been

trusted by fiction authors since 2014. To take their writing to a

new level of excellence. Guthrie's is a three story

methods certified editor who specializes in story

diagnostics, coaching, inline editing to help you prepare your

story for the journey ahead. For more information, go to writing

pursuits.com. The link is in the show notes. And now, back to the

podcast.

Can you give us a few tips or resources? For getting started

with writing for leverage? It is something I've always wanted to

do. I'm, I'm kind of looking for the right partner, and the right

time. But you know how do I get started?

Yeah, honestly, you just have to find a person that wants to do

the collaboration. I mean, you can read as much as you want in

regards to collaboration, but really, it's just writing. Like,

it's mostly just writing and making sure that you have a good

relationship with a collaborator. So it's getting

yourself out there and finding, writing communities, learning

people's writing styles, talking about collaboration and seeing

who else has those interests. You can't just email someone

randomly and be like, hey, I want to collab with your or you

can't, I can't, I'm not gonna say you can't, you can do many

things. But it is strange to potentially email somebody and

be like, Hey, I have this idea and send them a whole outline.

That's not a collaboration, hey, I have this story idea. And I

want it. And I've seen that. So I'm noting that here, like,

don't do those things. Collaboration is a start from

ground zero, like Ava and I, Jeff and I, Crys and I, we all

didn't have a story. And we built it. And we outlined it

together. And that was the key is we had these meetings where

we talked back and forth and we built a story. And then with Abe

and Jeff, they first draft. And then I come in and I'll do the

edits and clean up with Crys and I were doing back and forth A/B

chapters.

Are you each doing a different main character?

Yes. Yeah.

Okay. Okay.

It makes it easier because then we can have those different

voices and we know it like it's obvious, like it's, oh, it's a

different character. Oh, it has a different voice.

And Joanna Penn do something like that. And I can't remember

who she collaborated with. But they went back and forth with

main characters, as well. And so yes, and they were in different

time zones, I think. But anyway, it was it was a pretty good so,

you know, like in the morning here, she get this whole fresh

load of stuff, and then she has to respond to it.

Yeah, didn't wasn't that Mark Leslie Lefavre. And yeah, and

it might have been, but what's that the writers on a train? I

think Joanna pin was on one of those to New Orleans.

She was on the first one. Oh, where it was Zach, J., Joanna

and Lindsay Buroker

and Lindsay Buroker. Okay. Yeah, yeah,

yeah. You had you had Joanna who was at like the strange time you

Lindsay broker who was just like vomiting novels out of left and

right and right. What I remember so. But yeah, that that's

another thing. Like, honestly, it's it's so difficult to say

like, what resources are out there because a lot of the ones

kind of went away when COVID happened, but it was finding

those writing events where you can write with people. Maybe it

starts with an anthology where you're just writing a short

story to join in. But it's that networking, it's the community.

That's where you figure it out.

That's where you figure it out. I get you. Abe Cohen is Leah

Ackerman series. And in the nerds is with Jeff Elkins. Now.

That's a serial is that on Vella?

Yes. Yep. It's on Vella. We're 78 episodes in this.

Wow. Wow. That's impressive. are yelling. I mean, how do you have

an ending in mind? Or is that kind of a close? Yeah, secret.

We have an ending. So Vella, it's like it's like where do I

even start with this? Vella doesn't call the released

chapters chapters. They call them episodes episodes, though.

They also call what would be considered about a novel season.

And I think the Season part was actually picked up and chosen by

authors as opposed to Vella. Because there's no like place to

say season. It's just everyone knows and calls them seasons.

Our first season of NRDS ended at episode 66. And then we

novelized it, it's available on ebook and paperback. And then we

are in what we call season two. And we have a plan for the end

of season two and then we just don't know where it's gonna go

from there because it's it's a dumb office meets Ghostbusters

kind of thing. So it could go on forever, or it could end at the

season. It's really just, you know, how are we or where are we

at when we're done with that and how's the audience?

That's just fascinating to me. And I love the idea that you can

take the season and novelize it and release it to the world and

and have a life beyond Vella.

It is a really wonderful way to get your work very close to the

reader in a way that you can't with eBooks. Because when you're

releasing it on a weekly basis, not only do you have something

in social media that you can post every week about it, but

you have these people you see them reading through, you see

Oh, are they? are they reaching the last episode I published?

Oh, are they liking that? Oh, no. Are they waiting for the

next one to come out next week, you get to see this, even if

it's, they're not commenting, you get to see the statistics

about like, where they're at and where they stopped. So it really

impacts the way you write. And I've seen a ton of people who

may not have actually published their first ebook start off on

Bella. And at this point, they have four or five, six novels

already published because they started on Bella. And they were

just able to keep that accountability to themselves.

So how would you compare writing for Vella to writing with Abe

based on the fact that once a series a serial fiction, and one

is an novels,

so with Jeff, I get an episode or a chapter every week? It's

about 2000 to 2500 words. They're they're kind of long,

Jeff's Jeff's a little verbose,

a lot of dialogue.

Yeah. And so in terms of like Jeff and my relationship, like

we have this constant, I'm getting stuff from him and kind

of going through that. And it's kind of this weekly, I get to

see where he's taking the story from the little prompts that I

give him. And when we develop the outline, because we'll

develop outline together, and then I'll make like dumb

prompts. Because again, nerds is all about trying to make each

other laugh. That's the whole point. We don't even care if

there's an audience, we're just like, are we laughing. So I make

silly prompts, like one of our characters, finds a new love for

cleaning. And then he writes a chapter and it turns out that

the character has now a mop that he's fallen in love with named

Wanda, and that I have to go and edit that and figure out what

we're going to do with this mop that now exists.

Was it The Magician's Apprentice, or,

basically. So. So in terms of that, like with with Jeff and

with Vellas, it's it's more of a constant flow, like I get to see

and I get to feel the story. And I get to edit as we go with a

job. It may be months on end before I see a draft, and then

all of a sudden, I've got a draft and I've got a whole book.

And I'm like, until, like right now I'm working on book four.

And I'm getting a feel because it has been a long time since

we've done the outline for it just because of the natural

process of writing a whole novel. It takes a

novel it takes Wow. It's so

so there's that that greater distance in collab with a novel

than there is with a serial,

Unless you're doing it like the back and forth like you're

doing.

Exactly, exactly. Yeah.

So that that was that was a pretty good summary and a pretty

good look into the different. You're like you got all kinds of

things going on with collaboration. So in all

different methods, it's a little complicated to keep up I

imagine. So what things are you trying, you know, would you like

to promote? Because I know there's a few things coming up.

I have my own solo stuff. The next two things that are coming

out for me are solo stuffs actually three. Now. I've got

next month. Hopefully I don't have a date yet. But story

hypothesis is coming out. It is a short nonfiction piece about

my opinions on theme, and how to use Max Nieff's nine fundamental

needs to develop that theme. I have a

no I'm looking forward to that. By the way. I've heard you talk

about theme. And so yeah, I'm looking forward to that book.

And then in around October, I have Mandrake Manor. That was a

serial, and it will now be a ebook and paperback and that is

a queer, cozy fantasy. I'm calling it a suburban fantasy.

So because it is. It's basically like Practical Magic meets HBOs

looking, which is a queer romance story. So it's a really

fun, fun thing that I've got working on.

And it was it was a seriall first. Yes, that

was a cereal first. Okay,

there you go. Got feedback for readers. I imagined. That's

golden, actually,

I'm really excited because it had a pretty decent feedback in

terms of it being on Vella. Like I knew that people wanted the

story and that they were interested in it enough that I'm

like, Yeah, I'm publishing this thing like Yes. And yeah,

that's, that's where I'll end it with the promo stuff.

Okay. Yeah. And then what about the book three then of Leah

Ackerman last month, right? Yeah,

book, book three came out last month, you are correct. Book

Three deceived Bishop. That one is excellent. We're really

excited for some readers to get to that. And we keep getting the

same response, which is exactly what we wanted. So I'm not gonna

spoil any more. But it's definitely very exciting to hear

some of our readers that really liked this series, read that

one. And then just immediately message I was like, Oh, good. We

got you. And I'm working on book four. And that one, we're hoping

to come out March, potentially sooner, but March.

Yeah. But March is well, and that's a good time for like,

that's considered to be young adult, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's a good time for that come out. Right. Before you

know, spring break, all I can say. So I'm gonna have to have

you come back on and talk about story hypothesis, because it's

an important, I think it's an important thing for authors to

think about. And And you've said in my my hearing that some

things that really stuck with me, and so I just, I really want

to get the word out about that. I think it's great. Is there

anything else that I should be asking you about?

I think one thing I want to tell your listeners because I will

not stop getting off of the soapbox, okay is local, there is

a local writing community around you whether or not there is a

group that exists for it, there is one and if the groups do not

function, the way that you would like to see, and you have the

space or you have other author friends there, make it it's you

can do that you're allowed and local, honestly has been one of

the best supports that I've I've had, I've been lucky enough to

have a local independent bookstore that really supports

the local authors, provides space for us and is willing to

hold and support our our merchandise when we when we sell

it and promote it as they see fit. And like your local

libraries, they host workshops, they, they would love if they

had local authors, most local libraries would love that. If

you have something that you want to tell, either it's a story, or

it's a method or it's something like they want these workshops,

they would love it. So really, I think at this point in time,

where we are seeing massive advancements with technology,

one of the biggest and most important things is to put a

face behind what you do. And then I know for some people,

that is not great. However, I will say there are even authors

who were creepy, like horrific masks, and that's all that they

they have, they do not have their face on Instagram. And

yet, again, they have a presence. That is something that

is tangible for people to interact with. And I think that

even if it is not in a local physical space, having that

presence and collecting that community is super important. So

I just I think that you should get out there you should see

what is available to your local area. And if you don't like what

you see make something different.

I completely 100% agree. Well, I really want to thank you for

spending your evening with me and spending some time with me

and given me the lowdown on collaboration. And I know my my

my listeners are going to enjoy it. So thanks so much JP and I

hope to talk to you again very soon about the story hypothesis.

salutely All right. Well, you have a good evening. You too.

All right. Thank you. Bye bye. Thank you for listening to the

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